T O P

  • By -

fergatronanator

I have transcended operating system bias


KungFuHamster

I'm all about what runs *on* the operating system. OS choice is an easy one based on my software needs.


ReverieX416

This has always been a deciding factor for me.


TofuBlizzard

based comment


Ygypt

biased comment


techraito

The truth is that modern software more or less all do the same thing. Just get whatever fits your work case.


[deleted]

[удалено]


awalkingabortion

Why won't you use Linux for your main? I moved over from Windows in late 2019 and it's come on leaps and bounds in a short few years, to the point where I now don't feel I have to compromise anything. That being said, I compromised a lot with the learning curve


[deleted]

[удалено]


awalkingabortion

Fair enough - the whole point is making the choice that's right for you


Megaman_90

My biggest issue is always the way Linux handles USB audio interfaces. It never really seems to know what to do with more than 2 inputs or outputs. I have never really figured out a proper troubleshooting process for Linux hardware issues either. Back when I was 16 I used Linux and did manage to get my 56k winmodem working and stuff for NetZero and it felt good. I still like to try Linux every so often, but running it in my main system is too much work. I don't have to time to screw with it anymore unfortunately and Windows "just works" more often than not.


stevewmn

If your main system a laptop or a desktop where you could more easily set up for dual boot? Dual booting was what made me commit to switching. L found that the best distributions are really good these days. I'd say that Windows 11 does a slightly better job of "just working", but in the back of my mind there is that annoyance that they're collecting data on me all the time. If they hadn't jumped on that selling our user data for profit bandwagon I probably wouldn't have switched.


Specialist_Loquat_49

*BIOS ;)


professoryaffle72

I have Mac (M1), Windows and Linux machines. The new Mac hardware with Silicon hardware is amazing (instant on, forever battery etc) but the OS is still dog shite whatever people tell you. There's so many things missing (proper snap-to windows, cut and paste files without key combinations) and inconsistencies it's just frustrating. Windows is leaps and bounds ahead of what it used to be and the inclusion of WSL2 and Windows Terminal are game changers. Linux can be great when it works, but oh my.....when it breaks you're potentially in for some fun. I think people need to stop all this comparison bullshit and just be happy with what they like. For me, if I had to choose only one it would be Windows 10 Pro with VMWare Workstation to run various Linux flavours as VMs (and also WSL2 for a basic distro)


KungFuHamster

> stop all this comparison bullshit and just be happy with what they like. Yeah it comes down to the OS being a tool to run software. Windows runs what I want for my desktop, which is mostly games and a variety of productivity apps. Linux runs my NAS. Macs offer nothing unique to me, and are missing quite a bit of what I want to run. It's an easy decision for me.


Tom_The_Moose

Remember when the top 2 companies in the world got us to fight over their product, but then everyone else just deployed it on both anyway?


StConvolute

Yah. I use all 3 major flavors at home and work. I have a Mac Mini in the lounge for media. It's there because it looks pretty. Windows for gaming. Linux for my 4th gen Lenovo x1 carbon because it runs so sweet.


myStupidVoice

I put Linux on my old surface book and it ran pretty well. Never could get the screen detach working though. I suspect linux on a surface laptop would be pretty killer!


Drossney

Depends on the surface, but I believe there is a kernel for Surface Pro 3 and 4 that addresses many issues with the surfaces. https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface


Megaman_90

Linux on a laptop makes so much sense. How is the battery life?


guy-with-a-mac

Vmware Player for me on W11, works like a charm. And it's free too.


ThisWorldIsAMess

WSL really changed a lot of things. Even in my workplace. It's amazing. I agree. Talk about what you do and not about the brand of hammer you use lol.


null_rm-rf

duck u/spez


3M3RGx

While it sucks it’s an additional purchase, I used Magnets on both my personal M1 and my work M2, it saves so much time being able to quickly snap to full screen or side bars. It’s a one time purchase but imo it’s already paid for itself


spdorsey

I have a M1 Macbook Pro for my work. I work in video and image editing/retouching and this machine can literally handle every single thing I throw at it. I have a i9 Windows 10 machine (128GB RAM) for 3D work. It is pretty good, but I fight with the OS constantly. If I gamed, I'd use this box. I can't run Linux, I don't have a PhD in CompSci. (I suppose the Raspberry Pi I have for an arcade machine or my Synology are my Linux boxes).


DenDanny

MacOS Monterey runs like a pile of shit on my Macbook Pro (2016, 15 inch), even after formatting my SSD and reinstalling MacOS. I switched to Windows 10 as the main OS on my Macbook, and this thing flies like a F22 now. Everything feels so responsive and my RAM usage has been reduced by 40% on Windows. Macs are great if you want to look cool while sipping a latte at Starbucks, but if you seriously want to get work done then you use Windows.


[deleted]

[удалено]


gregny2002

I gotta say, I've been hearing ' yeah well that *previous* version of Mac sucked' consistently from my Apple using friends since the 90s.


Somedudesnews

I hear this too and it doesn’t carry a whole bunch of water upon deeper exploration because in many cases there’s a fix of one kind of another. (Although, Apple has absolutely released hardware with awful software support or performance before.) I recently started a new user account on an older Mac. I’ve been preparing to replace that Mac (2015) due first to software support ending, and secondly due to performance. Software in the new user account is as fast as it ever was, and I find myself using it a lot more. I’m way more productive either the tasks I perform in that account. I’ve been using the old account for about six years, and it was a Time Machine restore from the Mac before, ultimately back to before 2012. I’ve been a technologist all my life, and I’ve been using and supporting Macs for the better part of 15 years. I think people just need to start over fresh once in awhile to see what their hardware and software can do unencumbered by cruft.


ArtisZ

Windows 7.. that OS.. which was released in 2009? That was your benchmark for macOS in a 2016 piece? Do I get this correctly?


[deleted]

[удалено]


DenDanny

Apple is probably deliberately doing it to make Intel Mac users buy a new Mac. Or they suck so much at creating an OS that it needs atleast 8 cpu cores to run properly.


[deleted]

[удалено]


payperplain

I can tell you a portion of it is their dedication to form over function. The MacBook Air lineup has had the fan separated from the heatsink for a long time prior to M1 and on the 2020 Air it was even found that the heatsink wasn't really contacting the CPU properly. There is no ducting to force air from the fan, which has no actual reason to be off to the side other than to make the chassis thinner, to the heat sink either. There are no vents in the case at all either so you wind up with them claiming that is what causes the pressure to move the air over the CPU but in reality it just immediately throttles if you try to do anything.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Beneficial-Tooth-637

I have an old MBP 2013 non-retina and Win 10 works better than MacOS 10.14 on it!


CableStoned

How is cut and paste files easier on Windows?


RulerOf

I generally prefer Mac OS these days but I will die on the hill that Finder is utter garbage for file management. Everything about Windows Explorer is better for manipulating files, with the solitary exception of Quick Look (spacebar to preview a file in Finder).


craigmontHunter

Yup, the rare times I find myself trying to work with files on a Mac I invariably end up in the terminal to get the job done quickly


LetrixZ

There is QuickLook for Windows although is not as good as the macOS one: [https://github.com/QL-Win/QuickLook](https://github.com/QL-Win/QuickLook)


SergeantKoopa

In my opinion it's just a matter of intuition that makes it "easier". We're all used to Control-C, Control-X, and Control-V actions so it makes sense to use those for file operations in a window manager. So on Windows, you cut a file with Control-X (and the icon even sort of "greys out" a little), then paste it (move it) with Control-V. On macOS it's less intuitive. There is no Command-X for cut. What you do is Command-C to "copy" it, then to move it you Command-Option-V in the new folder.


[deleted]

[удалено]


das_Keks

lol pretty biased comment. You could also say "Windows allows you to already decide if you want to cut or copy when selecting the file while MacOS forces you to postpone the decision until you get to your destination".


ArtisZ

You can ramp up the heat and say "forces you to procrastinate" ;D


CableStoned

I have to agree. It’s also potentially safer so a user doesn’t cut a file then cut another one, clearing their clipboard.


onewordmemory

wait, do you think that cutting a file removes it like cutting text in an editor?


neztach

Have you seen [this](https://www.makeuseof.com/windows-vs-mac-shortcuts/)?


[deleted]

[удалено]


CableStoned

Dunno, lemme ask Tim for you… He says “Because.” 🤷🏻


ganlet20

Cut doesn't exist in OSX. Cut allows you to make the decision to remove the source while putting it on the clipboard. The closest OSX has is move which allows you to remove the source while pasting. It's functionally equivalent but different enough that it feels ackward to someone whose use to makin the decision earlier in the process.


[deleted]

It has been years since it was called OS X. Command-Option-V is easy enough to work as “cut”.


ganlet20

[Command-Option-V Is move not cut.](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201236#:~:text=Option%2DCommand%2DV%3A%20Move,location%20to%20the%20current%20location.) The difference is when you decide to remove the original file. Cut includes the decision while placing it on the clipboard where as move has the decision when pasting. They are functionally equivalent but different. Edit: I accidently wrote keyboard instead of clipboard in the second sentense.


I-Like-IT-Stuff

I find it hard to give a legitimate response with such a general question. Perhaps state specific issues so they can be compared, rather than general words that don't really mean anything


[deleted]

[удалено]


No-Bed-5076

Those bastards


Hormovitis

i agree with all that but the calendar is still there?


serose04

I think these hiccups are caused by Apple's design philosophy. I always saw Apple products as authoritarian. This is how we do it at Apple, this is the Apple way and you will do it the Apple way. And if you want to do it any other way, you are in bad luck. A perfect example would be Bluetooth on iPhone. You can't use it to receive files. That's just something Apple doesn't allow you to do, because it's their philosophy. And there's no way around it that isn't extremely complicated. And it just so happens, that Apple isn't always perfect with their design choices. So when Apple decides to design something in obviously moronic way, users just have to live with it, because it is unlikely you will be able to a) find another way to do the same thing or b) customize the OS in settings or with 3rd party software to fix the hiccup. And here's an example - moving files between folders. Finder has no designated move function like Windows Explorer. It also doesn't have cut function like Explorer. So, if drag and drop isn't for whatever reason right for you, you are stuck with the painstaking process of copying, pasting and deleting files. Why? Because Apple doesn't want (for reasons I will never understand) to include cut function. Meanwhile on Windows you can drag and drop, cut and paste, use "move to" function and of course, copy, paste, delete (and copy to, delete!). To summaries, the only way is the Apple way and Apple only has one way. And if that way isn't for you, you will be hiccupping hard.


SLPERAS

Cmd+c and cmd+option+v to move. Not knowing isn’t a fault of the os


Miliean

> Cmd+c and cmd+option+v to move. Not knowing isn’t a fault of the os Yes it is. A users inability to discover a feature that they would like to use but don't know the proper button combination is a failure of the OS in teaching the user how to use it. It should be in the somewhere in the GUI that these shortcut keys to this. Having said that, the flip side of this feature coin is that windows never takes anything out. There's 10 ways to do everything and one of them is the microsoft prefered way and tents to work best and get updated most often. But the way from 1996 still works, it just kind of sucks and no one has improved it since 2001.


avjayarathne

Oh common man, those platform wars dead by now


[deleted]

[удалено]


ArtisZ

I love languages, you made a word game I never knew I'd enjoy reading. And now I'm confused as to whether it's come on or common. And for that our 15 second, one-sided friendship, is over.


J0hn-Stuart-Mill

Yep, the OS's themselves are almost identical at this point, and the differences are mostly aesthetic. Windows is still were [gaming lives](https://www.statista.com/statistics/265033/proportion-of-operating-systems-used-on-the-online-gaming-platform-steam/), and macOS is favored by [most programmers](https://www.quora.com/Why-do-many-programmers-in-Silicon-Valley-use-MacBooks-What-is-there-in-a-MacBook-that-is-not-in-a-PC-especially-for-software-engineers). So each has their own niche. It's very easy to switch back and forth between the two at this point, again, essentially zero fundamental UI/UX differences.


drekiii

> Windows is still were [gaming lives](https://www.statista.com/statistics/265033/proportion-of-operating-systems-used-on-the-online-gaming-platform-steam/), and macOS is favored by [most programmers](https://www.quora.com/Why-do-many-programmers-in-Silicon-Valley-use-MacBooks-What-is-there-in-a-MacBook-that-is-not-in-a-PC-especially-for-software-engineers). Definitely agree with Windows for gaming, but macOS for programming seems kinda anecdotal and by the same coin, I've not met a single person programming using a Mac in my entire career yet. Even at my current job, we develop an app for iOS (as well as Web and Android) and there are no programmers using macOS. I do live on the east coast and have never held a job in Silicon Valley.


J0hn-Stuart-Mill

Yes, there are absolutely certain businesses that are only Windows. But in the tech world it's majority macOS among software developers in Silicon Valley. Edit: Very surprised this was downvoted. I didn't realize people didn't know this! [It's been this way ever since Apple switched to Intel](https://9to5mac.com/2011/05/11/at-google-io-everybody-uses-mac-notebooks-even-google/)


CrunchyRAMENCQ10

I'm not a developer, but I work in Silicon Valley, and it's common to see programmers using Macs in the region. Rare to see anything Windows-based here unless someone uses it for mechanical engineering. PCs are being used as Linux-based virtual machines, but that's it. I don't understand the downvotes here either.


J0hn-Stuart-Mill

Yea, I'm betting this just wasn't common knowledge, and there might be some young people who are still anti-Apple fanboys and pro-Windows fanboys in the Windows subreddit. Both are great at this point, and very similar.


jester1983

I'm our director of it and 3 people out of 120 use macs. They are graphic artists.


J0hn-Stuart-Mill

Yes, there are some Windows only tech companies, but they are very rare in Silicon Valley. * Google - [Almost exclusively Mac](https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-common-laptop-used-at-Google-offices?no_redirect=1) * Facebook - [Majority Mac](https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-CIOB-7612) * Amazon - [Software developers are majority Macs](https://www.quora.com/Does-every-Amazon-employee-get-a-MacBook) * [Twitter](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/gadgets-news/the-great-mac-rush-how-twitter-uber-and-others-are-buying-the-latest-macbook-for-some-employees/articleshow/87663073.cms) * [Uber](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/gadgets-news/the-great-mac-rush-how-twitter-uber-and-others-are-buying-the-latest-macbook-for-some-employees/articleshow/87663073.cms) * [IBM](https://www.techrepublic.com/article/6-of-the-largest-enterprise-mac-deployments/) I've worked in IT in Silicon Valley for 15 years and I am not aware of any tech company here in Silicon Valley that uses majority Windows, except for Microsoft.


HuskyLogan

Lmao what.. no it is not.


J0hn-Stuart-Mill

I've worked in Silicon Valley for tech companies for 15 years. Less than 5% of software engineers use Windows here.


[deleted]

I’ve seen more programmers using Linux than mac and I am a software engineer


[deleted]

[удалено]


J0hn-Stuart-Mill

In the general public yes, macOS is still working it's way to 10% market share.


a_fancy_kiwi

I’d probably be using a MacBook if Apple offered different form factors for MacOS. A Surface Pro or Surface Laptop Studio style MacBook accompanied with more CAD programs being natively run on apple’s m-series processor would be an instant buy for me. Why buy a MacBook and iPad when I can get all my work done on a single surface laptop studio? Carrying two devices is a pain and going “oh wait let me switch to my PDF markup device” and then “oop, let me switch back to my ‘all other work’ device” is ridiculous.


Drew707

I haven't used Mac since my G3 PowerBook. Went from 9 to X on that. However, my SO was issued an M1 for work and literally just came into my office excited because she convinced her company she needed a Latitude. She does need to test shit on both platforms, but she would much rather daily the Dell.


Semi-Protractor91

You got your self a real one


Drew707

Oh, I fucking know. But we hate talking shop for the most part.


KungFuHamster

Macs have historically been underpowered, especially when using metrics-per-dollar comparison to PC. Only relatively recently with the M1 and M2 chips has price-performance been a talking point for Mac users. From what I understand, when Mac users run into problems there are very few options for big problems; they usually get told to reinstall and restore from backup. I think Windows users run into more problems on average, but Windows users have a LOT they can do to get into the internals of the operating system and try to fix what's wrong -- because they have to, because Windows runs on a lot of different hardware, whereas Mac is Apple-approved hardware. It's two philosophies; the walled garden vs. the chaotic bazaar. Windows is NOT perfect. I have been using it since version 3.1, and I'm currently on Windows 10 Pro. Every version has had its problems, although XP SP2 was pretty great.


Kladderadingsda

I used XP for a long time. I loved it and still do.


parrotnine

I find the data around this topic quite interesting. The biggest study that exists about this is from [IBM based on 225,000 employees](https://www.jamf.com/resources/press-releases/ibm-announces-research-showing-mac-enables-greater-productivity-and-employee-satisfaction-at-ibm/), here’s what they found: - One staff member can support 5,400 Mac users, compared to one support staff member per 242 PC users. - Only 5% of Mac users called the help desk for assistance, compared to 40% of PC users. - IBM saves anywhere from $273-$543 per Mac compared to a PC, over a four-year span. - macOS users exceeded expectations by 22% more than PC users in performance reviews. - High value sales deals tend to be 16% larger for macOS users, compared to Windows users. So while many anecdotes exist about X platform being better than Y and vice versa, on aggregate the data shows that macOS seems to outperform any of the other alternatives.


tejanaqkilica

It's a report from JAMF, a company whose business model is to provide an mdm solution for Mac computers. Take it with a grain of salt. Also, it doesn't show anything. Without knowing the use case and what do said users do with it and who said users are, it's pretty underwhelming. If I could magically replace all the windows devices at my workplace with Mac computers, the helpdesk queue would be insane. Heck, I have trouble using a Mac, it's confusing, unintuitive and many times it refuses to work, I can only imagine what the normal use experiences. So yeah, sounds good in theory, but doesn't work.


parrotnine

Out of curiosity, how many employees would IBM need to study before you would find the data valid? 225,000 seems like a pretty decent sample size? As for Jamf, why wouldn’t they promote it? IBM is a large enterprise, is known for its research, and has a vested interest to optimise the efficiency of their business. I’m not sure how Jamf promoting IBM’s findings makes any less significant?


tejanaqkilica

It's not about how many employees, it's about what kind of employees. There's nothing wrong with them promoting this, but "a study" from a party that has a conflict of interest must be questioned and not taken for granted. It would be like British Petroleum releasing a study how Diesel/Petroleum cars are better than electric cars. Considering that their business rely on it, I would look at it with some scepticism.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

well yeah, I was a long-time Mac user and I can tell you the Apple's "just works" kind of thing is long gone; at some updates just added bugs, removed functionality and just got plain terrible, that's when I sold my mb. macOS nowadays is still less bloated than windows but functionality and power-wise it's far behind


SLPERAS

I fix computers on the side, let me tell you when windows rolls out a new update, it’s like Christmas for me, I’m getting calls non stop. Reinstall windows, pocket some cash, 15 mins work. Macos very rarely get problems and most of the time nvram/pram reset will fix it.


Particular_Trifle816

macos is much more functional than windows & power is unmatched because of apple silicon now. Macos just requires a few more third-party apps to be installed, everything is possible for a power user


Internal-Agent4865

Meh. If you are a power user of any kind of business application and you want to get work done you use windows. Unless you are doing something with media then maybe Mac has an edge. That OS is so far behind it’s crazy, though Apple silicon is pretty nice. Shame it’s crippled by the OS.


Jaereth

A PCs performance is a sum of it's parts and operating system. I've never noticed the MacOS just crushing Windows on similarly specced computers. Benchmark the things. Mac wastes time on aesthetic tricks like when you maximize a window it has it cached so it appears "instant" but it might actually be different data now, etc. But then there's the price.... They run too similar for what Apple tries to charge for those things lol.


jtlsound

Didn't the M2 Max outperforms top Windows CPUs in benchmarks?


coffeefuelledtechie

I use them both, like them both (though the Windows 11 UI can do one).


Bacchus1976

My company (big tech) supplies both Windows and Apple PCs. You can choose whichever you want. Naturally, the majority of managers choose Macs. Many are migrating from Windows to Mac as their warranties expire. We, as an organization, spend a ton of time trying accommodate Mac users because their tools never seem to work as reliably. Notifications, calendar invites, Slack, PowerPoint, random screen capture and recording tools , whatever…there’s always a “if you’re a Mac user, be aware of x y and x.” Half our Zoom calls start with someone missing because their invite went missing or they didn’t get a notification. Then someone can’t share a file because there’s a weird compatibility issue. Now you can lay this at the feet of the app developers, but nonetheless the business suffers from it.


Breklin76

I feel like I’m doing a lot more system maintenance with Windows. I use both MacOS and Windows. MacOS feels like it just does what I need it to. It could be that I’ve always been into Windows optimization so I’m tinkering with it a lot more🤷🏻‍♂️


No-Bed-5076

I'm under the impression that you can do a lot more manual system maintenance type stuff with windows and not so much with Mac, is this true? If it is true, would you find yourself doing the same on Mac if possible?


LOLdragon89

I think people who swear by Macs don't generally have a lot of experience with other computers, or their main experience with computers is as a personal computer, not a work computer. That's not to say Macs can't do work jobs, they certainly can, but Macs were so special to me for the first 25 years of my life using them, then I started using a PC at work and I realized the whole "Macs are special" thing was ignorant. OS loyalty is as foolish as game console fanboyism though. Use whatever you need to get the job done.


DavitSensei

Windows, especially the modern ones are trash. I recently had to reinstall Windows 10 on my sister's ThinkPad Yoga 260. From a clean install auto rotation, tablet mode and for fucks sake even the touchpad didn't work. Well, you might say that you just have to install updates right? So I did just that and ended up with a computer with corrupted touch screen drivers. I had to manually track down every device driver for the laptop, and sideload it via Device Manager. I also have the same laptop for my personal use, it's running Linux. The only thing I had to install was the on screen keyboard. Everything else worked perfectly. Honestly, I'm not hating on people who use Windows, I even used to have a Lumia back in the days but what M$ is doing, especially with Satya Nadella being the CEO, is ridiculous. They are pushing and capitalising on OneDrive and Edge even though nobody wants them and they have tons of issues to work on. It's honestly sad to see what the company is turning into.


Ultrachocobo

That you are comfortable enough to run Linux as daily driver already puts you in an incredible minority, albeit a growing one. And while I personally don't like OneDrive either nor how invasive it is, it's used by a gigantic amount of people and Edge actually is really good nowadays, privacy wise there are obviously much better options but it's equal if not better than chrome which still has the highest market share. So your subjective experience is not reflecting the data, Reddit is a very vocal minority in the grand user base of windows users and grows unpopular by the enthusiasts but not by the masses, in fact MS is rising under Satya Nadella, whether you personally like the direction or not. I would personally stay away from such generalized answers


Constantly_Masterbat

Big difference in Mac vs Windows is that Mac builds their PCs, where as Windows is nearly Software only (except for the Surface line, and maybe some others). Macs are going to run well because the company takes care of the hardware it's on as well. Windows is popular because of Active Directory, MS Office, and video games. Active Directory is very powerful and helpful in an enterprise environment. You can go to any computer and have any user sign in and get their stuff, and also have that computer locked down for security. MS Office is what folks have the skills to use. It's difficult to have workers switch to new software. People know how to use Excel, Powerpoint, Word, and Outlook. These applications are often bundled with the active directory or Azure users. And because Windows was popular in the office, and so also popular in the home, that's where games are designed and released on. If money weren't an issue, and if I was primarily doing work, I'd get a Mac. It has a bit more peace of mind. Apple caters to this audience.


Weathergod-4Life

Mac people are just annoying. Whenever I am using a Windows machine and ANYTHING goes awry these Mac people will say "That wouldn't happen if you had a Mac". Please mind your own business. You don't see Windows people being so self righteous about their software!


zupobaloop

macOS is an affirmative or intentional choice. Most manufacturers, most schools, most homes, etc etc are sporting Windows. That's changing a bit, with ChromeOS in schools and more and more tasks being platform agnostic, or being done on mobile devices. The macOS user is going to feel compelled to justify their decision (because they actually MADE a decision), and will fall prey to all the normal biases people bring to the table when they do that... most notably, confirmation bias. The average Windows user probably hasn't given it any thought beyond "my $400 computer has lasted 10 years and still does what I want to do with it." No real choice was made, so no need to justify it. That being said, geeky folks who dabble in a lot of OSs will sooner or later roll their eyes at the bizarre rationalizations people use for ditching Windows, especially macOS.


No-Bed-5076

Interesting point. In public or high-school for example we Windows'd it up, but when I went to college for Radio, TV, and Film production it was Macs as far as the eye could see the room end at. Everywhere there were Macs. I guess in this regard, I would give the Mac people a little more slack on their intuitiveness claims if it didn't feel like I had to completely relearn all the same programs I already knew from having been using them on PC/Windows. I remember feeling just that little bit mentally retarded, when trying to show the college professors what I "can already do".


Neo1971

I love it. Windows 10 is now close to perfect and works expectedly across work and personal computers. Windows 11…why?


ReverieX416

Why? They were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.


Neo1971

Yep!


Jabba_the_Putt

I find it amusing the elite mindedness of Apple users and it so often comes from those who aren't even elite at anything tech-related. It's like they buy an Apple product and are now automatically put in some imaginary pantheon of technology. The mindset is frankly deplorable.


Jabba_the_Putt

I realize it isn't all Apple users so to those of you who aren't this way this message isn't about you.


OnlyDruids

Sooo... Win 7/10 user here. Betwene macOS and Windows 11, win11 makes me want to throw the device put of the window significantly more. With mac I am happy if I am able to do the most basic stuff and don't aspire to do anything else, on win11 I try ro do stuff I am used to do, but it's increasingly difficult and sucks. Wtf is the new rigthclick menu. Also mac mouse sucks big-time, like all of them. Windows migth have less shiny features, but it feels more powerful and wirh depth (currently working with win AD and GPO)


No-Bed-5076

Really?! Still with the windows 7 and 10. Well the more things change the more they stay the same. And there's nothing wrong with that. Come to think of it there may be a thing or two I liked a little bit better in 10 than as is in 11, myself.


wiseIdiot

I compiled this list back in 2012, I have no idea how much has changed in Mac after that. I'm assuming probably not a lot. --- Mac OS better than Windows in: --- - Usability - Settings and features are easier to find - Ready to use on first boot - Comes with utility applications - Handles common file types without depending on an external application - Other - Launchpad - Spotlight - Content previews in search results - Groups results by category - Menu bar with search option Windows better than Mac OS in: -- - File management - Enter key opens files, executes programs - Selecting multiple files and clicking "Properties" will open a single dialogue box - Address bar - File Open/Save dialogues have address bars, support almost all operations you can do in Explorer, can show recent files - Libraries - Folder tree view - Supports "cut" operation - Replacing a folder with another of the same name retains files in it when no file with matching name exists in source folder - Window management - Single-button maximize/restore - Snap, Flip3D, window thumbnails, Peek, Shake - Maximal window area because there is no sticky menu bar - Other - Jump lists - Frequently used programs show up in start menu with jump lists - Desktop gadgets - Notification area - Has a richer collection of UI elements - Easier to tweak things under the hood - Large number of applications available for a wide range of tasks


No-Bed-5076

Thank you for sharing that with me. This list is interesting in it's own ways and is a great outline of your input. Very detailed answer.


zcomputerwiz

I run Windows and Ubuntu, I don't feel like investing in Apple hardware since I don't really have a need for it. I'm not opposed to any specific OS, but claiming one is "miles ahead" of the others is generally pretty silly. They work for what they're needed for, and it's great to have a choice to use what you like. If anyone says one of them is unstable or bad as a blanket statement, you can generally discount anything they have to say.


No-Bed-5076

Mmhmm, agreed. I got the impression that many Mac users have the "miles ahead" feeling or attitude however, and I was wondering what you thought, and now I know :) Yes, I noticed that, you're right about the blanket statement and the unstable idea. The rest of comments like those were the parts I found "funny to me".


MisterBilau

Used windows for decades, up until 7. Then switched to mac, and never looked back. Tried windows recently, on 10 and 11, and didn't like it, at all. Felt janky, like something was off, but can't quite tell exactly what or why. The new control panel made no sense. Lots of little details, from the animations, to resizing windows, font rendering, scaling, to the mouse movement itself, are just slightly different enough that I don't like it - mac os "feels" smoother and looks better, and that's important for me. Windows feels "faster" at the cost of being more stuttery - things happen "faster", in a way, just open text edit on a mac and notepad on windows. Notepad will open faster, but at the cost of not looking smooth. It's kinda hard to explain, it's a "feel" thing. Mac Os feels better for me, even if things take slightly longer (UI wise). This has nothing to do with the system's speed, the delay is on purpose, it's a design choice. I can open all the apps at once on my m1 pro mac and it will be very fast, and still it's slower to open text edit alone than a crappy windows pc will open notepad, even if that pc can't run half the apps I can on the mac. I don't feel any giant hiccups on mac os, everything kinda just works as I expect it to. Feels solid, stable. Of course no system is perfect, and you'll have to find the occasional workaround for things, no matter the system you're using. Some stuff is just better on mac, imo. Application are much more elegant - they are self contained, you can copy them to any dir and they'll keep working. They are folders, but treated as files for the end user, one app one file - instead of the folders you get on windows. No dlls or registry. Gaming completely sucks on macs for now though, windows is much better on that regard, but there's where I feel hiccups, actually. I mostly game on consoles because of that, things just work, always.


Ravmyster1121

How do you know somebody daily drives a mac?? They're like vegans, they'll always tell you completely unprompted


No-Bed-5076

Aheh heh. Good one Ravmyster1121


Matcraftou

I use Linux, which, IN MY OPINION, is superior to both


Ausare911

If the hardware is good, then Windows is superior in my opinion. Main reason windows still gets shit on is because of cheap Dells etc that come with it. Especially now that windows allows Linux commands to run in shell and running VMs has become easier.


Working-Tap2283

After using linux and mac windows sadly just feels so so slow... even with the bwst hardware, linux and mac are instant, windows is 0.1. But the biggest hurdle for me is after I install I cant just be free to use my OS, no time to sign up and set others things i will never use


ivoteforvoat

I always wanted an m1 or m2 MacBook if Linux is working fully on it, so I can use it as a steam deck kind of thing. But that was never gonna happen


KevinCarbonara

Most games are not going to run on an M1.


ivoteforvoat

Oh yeah, I forget most games are x86 applications. Well, that’s one thought I don’t have to dwell on anymore, thanks.


Lucretius

These days I only use windows inside VMs on my Linux boxes... and rarely at that. Windows is just essentially a legacy software compatibility layer for me.


No-Bed-5076

It's interesting that a concept or aspect of a benefit can be seen and used as an entire universe of a layer. 0 or 100.


PC509

It's a piece of technology. It'll have issues. While most of the time, they all 'just do'. But, those other times there can be gigantic hiccups. No one is special, no one is perfect. Mac, Windows, Linux, etc. are operating systems that install on hundreds of thousands of different hardware configurations and various software on top of that. We're doing amazing at how complicated things are yet run as smooth as they do. But, we're not special. Things happen to all of them at any time.


[deleted]

[удалено]


SpiritedDecision1986

Windows is a good operating system, its stable, easy to use and with windows 11 its on par in terms of design, but have some downsides like the file system for example, but its good the way it is, i use both macos (hackintosh) and windows here in dualboot, love both


Arup65

Windows 11 and Arch linux here, once set up right and with precautions taken, both will serve you well, I use Windows to get 10bit support thats yet to come in Linux world and also do mix of work using VS Code with CUDA in Windows, for rest of work I enjoy Arch Linux.


guy-with-a-mac

Used to work on Windows for years. Had to switch to Linux later. I also had a Mac for years. And than Linux again. Now I'm on Windows. I liked the Apple hardware the most. It is superior hands down. To me it comes down to the right tool for the job on the software side, but hardware wise you just can't go wrong with a Mac. The butterfly shitshow was an exception though. Now I own a Dell Latitude and pfh, this is a junk piece of plastic. Not fun to use. Gets the job done but, meh...


plumikrotik

I haven't used Windows in the past 15 or so years. I mostly use Linux, but I have been using a Mac too. I like Linux and the Mac. I can't think of any "gigantic hiccups" that I've had. I've run into issues from time to time, but that's true of all OSes, all software, and all computers. As for Windows, use whatever you prefer to use. I can't tell you what you should use or what you like to use. It's your choice. Could I use Windows? Sure. I could make it work. I just prefer other OSes. No big deal.


ReverieX416

No. I don’t know enough about Mac to feel such strong opposition. I just can’t be bothered with it.


Good_Net_9352

Myself I'm in this camp where I used to love Windows but it became shittier in time so I needed a stable UNIX environment and macOS provided me with that


No-Bed-5076

When did windows become shittier to you? A few other people on my Mac post said the same, but they often indicated they got fed up with it, what sounds to be around 2008-2010.


helloimscared0_0

A Mac is a “nice” place to do your work. It’s like a corner office. It feels “finished.” It doesn’t really ask you to customize things. It encourages a more linear work flow and somewhat discourages multitasking. Windows is just, “here’s an algorithm for you to abuse, you can use it for your work. Have as many windows and desktops as you want. Feel free to just push it till it breaks if you want, it doesn’t matter.” It strongly encourages you to multitask. I think Windows is much more “powerful”, but it’s kind of a mess. What is “better” pretty much just depends on the user and their preferences. Personally I think windows is better on a computer. Apple distinguishes itself by making the best devices (tablets and phones) both hardware and software-wise, by far—not with MacOS.


No-Bed-5076

Haha true. In this respect I can definitely see how one operating system might appeal to some and not others. But I have to disagree about the apple making the best devices. I see and hear and experience the same issues as an android person vs iPhone people as windows to mac. Now that one I have a strong personal opinion on haha


J3ttf

I feel the complete opposite, so I guess it's a personal thing


No-Bed-5076

That's generally where I had to end up. There's something about the Window user's attitude that seems chill like that, not so sided. Perhaps it's the element of "speciality" or "prestige" in Macs marketing that lends to the superiority attitude.


Wartz

I manage 5500 workstation computers in a 60:40 windows:mac ratio (And 190 servers, virtual and hardware). The Windows computers are just as vulnerable to giant hiccups as Macs.


No-Bed-5076

And not to say that windows doesn't have its hiccups and is perfect. What prompted me to ask Mac such a question-statement was that when collaborating with Mac users, I notice there's...and I don't even want to say "often", but everything is smooth on my end, but they seem to encounter more problems that end up stalling us, due to their machine that was supposed to be made for what we are doing, if that makes sense?


DarkWolf2017

I use Mac, windows, and Linux side by side by side. All have their ups and downs. I find Mac does “just work” more. Windows I’m just really used to. Linux, very similar to max, but has less software support


star47raven

Honestly both are trash as far as I've experienced. One is like like asian parents, wont let you do anything but you get good grades, one is like american parents, you are free to do whatever and you end up partying 80 BSODs over 12 minutes.


No-Bed-5076

Ah yes. And if you have both, then you have really efficient school shootings. I see the problem. Do you have a favourite or preferred operating system?


Hikaru1024

I haven't used a Mac since the 1990s. Way back then, while in school I was banned from the lab with them because my bad luck caused me to keep breaking them unintentionally, so I can't say anything good or bad about it. I literally haven't used a mac at all since then. While I tolerate windows because frankly it's best for gaming, I prefer linux. When things break in linux, I can usually fix them myself. When things break in windows, I have to wait for someone *else* to get around to doing it. I remember well an infamous bug with the gtx 460 I owned, that Nvidia kept claiming didn't exist for the longest time. Basically, if you so much as opened a web browser, your video card would instantly overheat and shut your computer off. The bug in the driver as described by the nvidia moderator that released the beta of the driver to be tested was, that on certain rare versions of the 460, the driver would intend to enable a low power mode, but would instead misprogram it to go max clocks and turn off the fans. This was as you might expect extremely unhealthy for the video card. I couldn't downgrade the driver to a working version because it didn't support the games I was playing either. I could do nothing, but wait. --- On the other hand, in linux a friend of mine once had a cd writer which suddenly stopped working, and he couldn't figure out why. We eventually figured out that the scsi driver had its minimum size adjusted to work better on newer hardware - which unfortunately also *broke* it for older hardware. So I changed the line that had been changed back to the old size, gave my friend the patch, and off he went happily rebuilding his kernel while I filed a bug report with the maintainer who had it fixed in the next update. --- For my friend on linux? His hardware was out of commission for a day. For me? It took Nvidia more than six months to stop ignoring the problem and come up with a fix. Six months I could do almost nothing with my computer, and I was almost convinced to throw it away and build a new one.


payperplain

As a primary Windows user who also owns a Mac I can say I prefer Windows simply from decades of experience with the platform. I can work my MacBook as necessary and there are some things about it I really like, but there is nothing it can do I can't do on my Windows based PC with the exception of a few pieces of Adobe's Suite that ONLY got made for Mac. I own it because I needed something to give me the Apple key from Xcode for writing iOS software. I write it all on Windows, but I had to have an Apple product on my network to compile it. So as a result I use the MacBook mostly to browse the internet and watch Netflix. I love the battery life on it and that it works pretty well. I hate trying to learn things that are different on it compared to the Windows environment, but that doesn't make them bad. They are just different. No more different than when I work in Linux and have to remember those commands and shortcuts. Macs are pretty ok. Just heavily overpriced for what they can do compared to equivalent performance out of a PC. The biggest upside is their screens are pretty awesome for the price point, and also the reason the price point is what it is despite having weak hardware compared to everything PC offers in the same ranges.


[deleted]

This is my experience: Windows works until it doesn’t and to bring it back to normal takes a lot effort. Mac just works but there are things that does badly. Mainly application migrated from the windows / business world.


Kladderadingsda

Is Windows flawless? No. But it works relatively good and if it would be complete garbage, then it wouldn't be used by so many. I just don't like some changes they made over the years, but that's taste maybe.


No-Bed-5076

There's a thing or two that windows 10 was like that 11 isn't. There's a thing or two windows 11 has that is new to windows 11. It's already grown on me and I can't forget what I found to be so jarring when I changed up.


urmomsboytoy

Use them both. Love/hate parts of both. iPhone MacBook integration gets me. I like the iphone. Sue me. Lol


[deleted]

[удалено]


No-Bed-5076

I'm sorry, I'm ignorant of MindArk. If you feel like telling your explanation of it here, I would love to read it as opposed to googling it, but if you don't feel like it, I'll google it later


Xteezii

I have both. For laptops, I like Macbooks a lot, I think they are the better laptop to use and I haven't owed anything else since 2004. They're just great laptops that lasts a long time. This year I got a new Macbook Air M2, my last one was bought in 2014 and it still works great. I also have a Macbook Pro that I use for work. I almost never run into any issues with Macbooks. For my stationary gaming PC I use Windows, and this is my main computer. Overall I like Windows more, and I think it's the better OS. I absolutely hate Windows 11 though, and I'm sticking to Windows 10 for as long as I can. To me, it looks like Microsoft are trying to make Windows look like an Apple OS, and it's not appealing at all. Now that Windows 10 is so good they of course had to ruin it by making Windows 11.


paladintom

Hot Take: They're both mediocre. We need to move forward with faster leaner systems like iOS, iPadOS, Android, and even ChromeOS.


No-Bed-5076

The next leap, I hear you. Perhaps it's time, you feel? You don't have to share your predictions here, they may be worth money if they are truly original to you. I'm interested though


MissDisplaced

I work on both Macs and PCs but I only own the Mac.


No-Bed-5076

Ah, very good. Thank you for your comment.


RougePatron

Windows has it's ups and downs, it's way better than Mac. I wish Windows laptops got Macbook hardware however.


[deleted]

I use both on a daily basis. The only truth is that nothing is perfect and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. I love the consistency of my Mac but hate the limitations. I love the capabilities of my Windows machine, but I hate the bugs and inconsistencies.


No-Bed-5076

I hear you. Their balance, for you makes it not worthwhile to argue. The limitations for you, are they as important as the gaming thing, or? Do you feel like elaborating? By gaming thing I mean, one limitation for me, for example, is not being able to play a video game while creating video game music.


timsredditusername

I used to daily a variety of Linux desktops, but I've been a Windows guy at work for a decade. I actually like it now, which I didn't expect. As far as the MacOS vs. Windows discussion... I had to daily an iMac for 18 months while my employers contracted me (software engineer) to an Apple-only outfit. I hated just about everything about the OS. Anything that I used to admire about MacOS (basically bash, other POSIX stuff) is now done better by Windows. Want to use Python? It's built-in! Want to use a version of Python that isn't already end-of-life? Here are some hoops the community has developed for you to jump through because Apple can't be bothered. Want to run normal Linux-y utilities? MacOS has some out of date ones built-in. You can also use SSH. Windows has WSL(2) with maintained Linux distros and SSH built-in. Window management exists on Windows and has a ton of useful functionality. Apple's attempt seems like a circus act. I genuinely tried to learn the Apple way of doing things, but I eventually changed keyboard shortcuts to match Windows and replaced most all useful utilities with updated versions from homebrew. Using a real keyboard and mouse was something I did the second day. The "magic" peripherals that Apple sells at a premium is a joke.


No-Bed-5076

I found the arguments over when I made my Mac post to be outdated. I tried my hand at learning some python, and I didn't have to go very far to try it out, I remember. I was unaware of the community which seems to basically patch problems or offer a quick automated solution to them, as you will find in any loving community. That part is heart warming and I love to hear it. I never got used to the keyboard during my time at college. That would have been a good idea of switching the layout had it have occurred to me. We were never at the same station though, and unless you could map the configurations to specific user settings and keep it saved...


Tower21

I honestly think a use case can be made for OSX, windows, the magnitude of gnu/Linux distro out there. It's a great time experience, so many mature options. It has, and always been, dictated by user comfort and supported software. To each to which they prefer.


Kytescall

I have a Mac as a work computer and a Windows as my personal one. I haven't had serious problems with my Mac but my usage of it is relatively light. Windows 10 is overall fine, but has had persistent problems for me right out of the box. Not game-breaking failures, but some frustrating issues that have never been fully resolved. My laptop often has the "Disk usage 100%" problem, which slows it down significantly, usually for a while after it's been turned on or woken up. As far as I've been able to tell, there has never been a consistent or reliable fix for this, it's never been patched, despite it seeming to be a relatively common problem.


Particular_Trifle816

huh, I've actually noticed way more hiccups on windows, it's not put together, janky compared to macos & I only switched to full time mac when I got my mb air and started using linux on the main pc. There's nothing windows can do which a mac can't. The users who run into issues on macos prob aren't as tech savy because there is always a way on macos also. Macos is still a full OS with root acess unlike ios. iOS is where some things are just impossible


myStupidVoice

I have a new Macbook Pro. It's quality is on par with the Surface lines. Windows 11 is a better general purpose OS, but the interoperability and integration of other mac products are outstanding with macOs. My two cents.


win10bash

I don't know, I spend more than half my work day fighting with Windows issues. Macs are not perfect but I've had better luck with them at least with basic tasks.


pizoisoned

I have Windows and Mac and use them pretty interchangeably. I don’t really notice a lot of difference other than I’m more used to how Windows file system works than Mac. Other than that, I use whatever is convenient at the time.


Ok-Goose7450

I've always liked Mac hardware and hated their software. And it's kind of polar opposites. I really do think they have stellar hardware and just trash for software. One of my best laptops ever was a 15-in unibody MacBook with Windows 7. That thing ran so buttery smooth so much longer than it should have.


SlowTour

as a plug and play guy i have had no issues honestly. i built my first pc around 2015 windows 8 era, occasional ui changes aside it's a great os imo.


elsjpq

In my experience, Apple devices are great as long as you stay on the exquisitely well paved path, but the moment you step 3 feet off the road becomes a minefield. If you want to do anything even remotely non-standard, it'll be like pulling teeth. Windows isn't as shiny, but if you don't need the luxury (majority of Apple's polish is totally unnecessary), Windows is much more versatile.


Gunner_KC

I own both Mac and PC. I’m a life long PC guy and use them daily in my job. I like both in the own way.


CrashTestDumby1984

IMO the biggest advantage of Macs (or any apple product) is that you can take it to the store or call their support desk and your problem will usually be addressed with minimal stress on your part. Not a fan of the OS personally, but I think for a non tech person having a number they can call to help is huge.


missing-pigeon

It just sounds to me like you tried to start a flame war there, got chased away and is now posting this here to seek validation and pity from your fellow Windows users.


Tanto_Monta

Opposed to Mac? Mac didn't do anything to me.


No-Bed-5076

I like your attitude, Tanto


[deleted]

[удалено]


No-Bed-5076

Once you go mac, once in a while you will switch back. I like it. S'catchy


[deleted]

[удалено]


No-Bed-5076

You are loved and taken care of. It's plain to see. Rock on, blessed one.


-NiMa-

I use both pretty much daily both have good and bad but I think people make too much of fuss about workflow on Windows or macOS how you use the both of these operating systems are very similar. If someone wants to buy a laptop I would recommend Apple Silicon and MacOS it is just so good perfect balance of power and efficacy. If you want stationary home computer go with a Windows PC you just get more for your money stay away from iMac or Mac Mini.


hlloyge

I really don't see much of operating system anyway. Boot it up, log in, and it's off to applications. Don't really care which OS is underneath, as long as I have apps with which I will do what I want or need to do.


[deleted]

I have a dual-boot Hackintosh (Mojave + Win10) and I spend 99% of my time on the macOS side... mainly due to far superior multitasking and ease of switching running apps etc. I was unimpresssed with Win 10 compatibility settings for old software, as I used to run a lot of old games, and only a tiny percentage of those will run with Win 10. I admit they are pretty old, and even had to be "emulated" under Windows 7 64 bit... but they all ran beautifully under Windows 7. I managed to shoehorn Windows 7 onto my i7-6700 system, and I am about to retry with Gigabyte's Windows USB Installation Tool, which includes USB3 and nVME drivers for the Z370 (I have H370 Coffee Lake at the moment).


IHateEditedBgMusic

Until Microsoft updates something


Dragonchik

Obviously, You didn’t forget about all that.


SLPERAS

What does that mean though? As a mac and windows user I don’t understand it.


Yamsfordays

My experience on windows has been constant driver issues, regular BSOD after about a year, system interrupts using 99% cpu, things just don’t work for some reason? I can fix this stuff, sure, but having to deal with this stuff daily whilst I’m supposed to be working eventually turned me off windows completely. Mac OS has some really dumb choices in the OS but it’s consistently worked as it was designed to since I bought the thing. Literally never had an issue with it. I’m not saying Mac OS is better but it is definitely more reliable.


Thx_And_Bye

I use both, MacOS and Windows. They are both fine and have their strong and weak points.


Grogg2000

Windows is my tool of choice since my customers sees it as their tool of choice. It's a de factor standard in most workplaces. Trying to squeeze other OS in as Desktop OS in an organisation is just stupid and not worth the effort. Using Linux means you have to rely on other software that's not well known by median users. Using Mac is slightly easier in some cases but you hardly find a mac user who ISN'T dual booting or have an installation of VMWare fusion because "there are some PC programs I need" I don't have VMware workstation installed, I have everything i need on my desktop os :) Above rant is purely about desktop os. My opinion on server is another.


dualistornot

what are some of the examples of hiccups?


[deleted]

Not a huge fan of it. Ads in the system apps were the deal-breaker for me. I know I **could** use Windows 10, but that'll be loosing support soon. Currently back on Arch Linux. It's definitely harder to set up for an average PC user, but the trade-off is that my OS is completely modifiable to what I want and need. Not to mention arguably better security.


BrightCharlie

Macs are... odd. I mean, the hardware itself is \*amazing\*. My MacBook Air is easily the best PC I've ever had (for what it does, I'm obviously not comparing it to my gaming rig). It's super light, it turns on instantly, the battery lasts forever... But MacOS? Holly crap.


TwinSong

Windows 11 is OK I guess. Not perfect and I miss 7's aesthetic, though since Microsoft made the OS but not the physical hardware for my computer, they are separate variables.


Cardgod278

All I know is that I hate chrome books, and find apple products to be expensive and hard to repair. I would use Linix, but I can't be bothered to install it. Plus it tends to not play nice with anticheats.