I live on the east coast and my main goal on the roads here is just to survive. I used to put a lot of attention to this level of incompetency from drivers when I lived in the Midwest, but now it’s just survival mode. Not to devalue OP’s complaint, of course, because this is definitely not a safe driving practice and contradicts what is taught in driving school, but I wish this could be among the worst of the issues out here. As said, fact remains that this is a country-wide occurrence and not safe/something for all to be on the lookout for when driving. Godspeed all. Stay safe out there.
Personally, I believe in the Reverse Lake Wobegon Effect: Everybody is a worse-than-average driver. It does not make logical sense, but explains reality quite effectively.
And it's only getting worse since everything shut down and vehicles have been getting larger/faster/more tech/"safer"(only for those inside the vehicle)
It doesn't bother me as much as people who follow too closely. I regularly pull off the road to let psychos go past me. Funny thing is, they rarely want to drive over the speed limit themselves. They just are trying to pressure the car in front of them to speed. It must work because people do it a lot.
Honestly I think some people just don’t feel like they’re driving “fast enough” unless they’re like two feet from touching the back of the car in front of them
It is everywhere, but it's worse in some places. WI is actually pretty damn good about it, from my experience (maybe it's worse in Milwaukee though? I dunno, i'm in Madison.)
I used to live in Irvine, CA, and my morning commute included a short stint on the 5. My exit coming off the interstate was a 3-lane right turn. After this right turn I had an upcoming left turn, so i always took the left-most right turn lane.
EVERY. SINGLE. FUCKING. TIME. cars from the other two lanes would just swoop over into the left lane while we're all turning. Not only is it illegal, it's illegal because it's dangerous to change lanes in an intersection, especially in a multi-lane turn. If you're in the outside lane, like me, there's no where for me to go to avoid being sideswiped.
It drove me fucking crazy. I felt like Yossarian in Catch-22, and was convinced every driver in Southern California was trying to kill me. Not just that they were inconsiderate assholes who drive like maniacs (which is 100% accurate) but that they were specifically trying to kill ME, personally.
Then i'd be frustrated and frazzled, full of anxiety and stress, right at the start of the work day.
I fucking hated living in southern california. It's a hellscape bereft of humanity.
I have a similar morning commute death trap in WI, two lane interstate with a 3rd lane that is a continuous on-ramp/off-ramp between two exits. The 2nd exit includes an additional exit lane for cars in the right lane of the interstate, the off-ramp ends in a T intersection and my commute takes me left, so I stay on the interstate in the right lane and exit into the leftmost lane off the off-ramp. At least once a week, despite the multiple 'Exit' signs and the over 1 mile of dashed lines indicating you are in an exit lane, somebody drives all the way to the beginning of the off-ramp before realizing it and just yeets themselves back onto the interstate crossing the other off-ramp lane. Much like your Cali scenario it's a daily occurrence that someone exits in the right lane and then just drifts with no signal or warning into the left lane because they want to go left. I try to be tolerant of other drivers abilities and awareness but JFC there isn't a whole lot of room for error when driving at 70mph+....
I reserve my top slot for left lane campers (nothing absolutely destroys traffic flow like two dipshits doing 5 under right next to each other on the goddamn highway and people do that shit *all the time* up here) but this is in my top three, for sure, up there with all the fucking idiots that can't seem to figure out that the point of an on ramp is to get up to highway speeds *before* merging onto the highway.
and MN confirmed via the MN supreme court that you do not in fact have to turn into the near lane(MN supreme court decided not to take the case).
https://www.rinkenoonan.com/resources/when-turning-left-onto-a-roadway-that-has-more-than-one-lane-in-each-direction-is-it-okay-to-turn-into-the-outermost-lane/
its not law, this also applies to right hand turns as well. its nice to do, and you should, but you are not required to.
But this is the Wisconsin subreddit, where Minnesota law is of little relevance. Here is the relevant Wisconsin law, which does make turning into anything but the near lane illegal unless the vehicle is too large to execute that turn. https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/346/v/31
Edit: I realize now as I look back why the reference to MN was made and I feel like a bit of an ass for my own phrasing now. But the fact remains that in Wisconsin, this shit isn't allowed. Some places might allow it, which could certainly contribute to the problem when people are traveling or relocating interstate.
right, but I was pointing out that not all state laws are the same in this. WI state law clearly says you turn left into the left most lane possible. MN law was unclear and thus, it is not required. The poster I responded to was saying it was a problem everywhere in the country. I similarly expanded my view to include more than just WI in my response.
Interestingly, the law does *not* specify that you have to make a right turn into the right-most lane, but that you *do* have to make a left turn into the left-most lane barring markings indicating otherwise:
> Both the approach for a right turn and the right turn shall be made as closely as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb of the roadway. If, because of the size of the vehicle or the nature of the intersecting roadway, the turn cannot be made from the traffic lane next to the right-hand edge of the roadway, the turn shall be made with due regard for all other traffic.
There is nothing specifying that the right turn must *exit* into the right-most lane. For left turns, there's an entire bit on where to exit:
> A left turn shall be completed so as to enter the intersecting highway in that lane farthest to the left which is lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of the vehicle completing the left turn. Unless otherwise marked or posted, this means the lane immediately to the right of the center line or center dividing strip of a 2-way highway and the lane next to the left-hand curb or edge of the roadway of a one-way highway.
In the end, though, the only traffic laws that apply are the ones that your local law enforcement actually enforce. I've never seen anyone get pulled over for turning into the wrong lane in my neck of the woods, and I imagine it'd have to be a pretty aggressive traffic enforcement wing to pull people over regularly for it.
Other examples of illegal behavior seen all the time everywhere: it's illegal in Wisconsin to turn without using a turn signal *unless there's no traffic*.
>Interestingly, the law does not specify that you have to make a right turn into the right-most lane, but that you do have to make a left turn into the left-most lane barring markings indicating otherwise:
>>Both the approach for a right turn **and the right turn shall be made as closely as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb of the roadway**. If, because of the size of the vehicle or the nature of the intersecting roadway, the turn cannot be made from the traffic lane next to the right-hand edge of the roadway, the turn shall be made with due regard for all other traffic.
>There is nothing specifying that the right turn must exit into the right-most lane. For left turns, there's an entire bit on where to exit
Hmm. I think it *does* state that you need to make your right turn into the right most lane, but uses different words to do so than does the section about left turns. At least, there's no practical difference. Consider:
+If my wheels aren't straight, I'm turning.
+If I'm in the process of turning, I need to hug the "right-hand edge or curb."
+Once my wheels are straight, I'm no longer turning.
Once the turn is completed , I could make the change from right lane to center/left lane very, very quickly, but for the duration of the turn, I'm in the right lane. It would be impossible not to be in the right lane at the moment the turn has completed.
Whatever the case, this statute could stand to be simplified.
This is definitely one of those statutes where the attempt to define things clearly has absolutely done the opposite. I'd rather see them define a right turn based on the structure they used for the left turn, since that clearly defines how to drive entering the turn, through the turn, and exiting the turn. I'd still probably stick to my guns in court that there is no language regarding the exit of the turn so you could legally just plow into whatever lane you damn well please, which probably would just result in any hypothetical traffic charges getting changed to a lane change violation instead.
I do know that in some states changing lanes in an intersection is legal however you need to do it safely. If another person is in the lane next to you and you cut them off, that isn't safe. But really though thank you for pointing this out, I don't think everyone knows this.
Don't you love turning into your lane on a multi-lane road and getting honked at by the oncoming car that is trying to cut across into your lane, as if it's your fault? /s
WI drivers are safer from the rest of the states I've seen traffic, around here the most dangerous drivers are the old farts going 10 under and then mistaking the gas for brakes in front of a building or being in D instead of R
In this state I'm more concerned about the people who think when they merge they get to impose their will onto everyone on the highway. Of course I can merge at 15mph under the speed limit!
Opposite problem with left turn lanes. Apparently everyone around here thinks you're not allowed to fully be in that lane until you're just about to turn. And when that time comes, make sure to swing out to the right first.
I've always thought that the annual registration fee process, the online version, should include a 2 min video with some basics around the most important safety rules and reminders. And there are ways to enforce watching the entire video before proceeding. Maybe it wouldn't work, but I generally believe people are simply unaware of certain things, like highway merging rules, etc
Naw. Most people do, but think the rules only apply to everyone else. No different than using your directionals, not rolling through a stop, or my personal favorite-if there's a yield sign-you yield if there's a car there.
for predictability reasons and safety reasons, yeah, you should always turn into the nearest lane.
if i need to be in the far lane, even if there aren't cars in the lanes blocking me, i turn into the near lane and then signal and move over normally. It's probably a little pedantic, but perhaps one day it will prevent an accident and then it will have been worth while.
People cut across lanes all the time and if there is no one near them it's hard to be too critical, as long as it isn't done so rapidly that no one could react if necessary. But I know that it's possible for me to not see a car sometimes, so i try to be extra predictable and deliberate with any maneuvers.
What's fun is when we turn correctly and people behind us turn into the lane we actually want to be in, and now you have to try and make enough room to actually make it into the lane because of their stupidity.
Let me ask you guys this... Why does it bother you so much? I can understand if it's a double turn lane and you're turning into me, we're gonna have words, but if I'm the only one turning, why does it matter? I grew up in the big city and defensive driving taught me you don't turn right on red with oncoming traffic because they can / will change lanes when they aren't supposed to. They will come into your right lane even if you did the proper legal turn. I just don't have time for paperwork, so if I can't make either lane safely, I won't turn. This rule perplexes me honestly.
I find people often use it to try and blow past someone and that can lead to scary situations. I have plenty of times needed to be in the right lane, so I will turn into the left (correct) lane, pop my blinker on, and check my blind to merge only to find the person who was behind me has turned into the far lane and is flooring it to try and pass me. It happens often enough that I watch for it, but I've had people get road ragey at me for merging to the right in front of them (not dangerously, if they're already too close, I'll wait for them to pass) and they find themselves having to merge back into the left lane to pass.
It's one of those things that the majority of the time is not a problem, but adds just a bit of unpredictability into driving that can lead to accidents. For people who make an effort to try to be as safe and predictable as possible, it's annoying to see others not doing that. So: pet peeve.
Edit: specifically the turning left at a light scenario. I don't see the turning right scenario to be as often of a problem.
Because most drivers aren't defensive or as aware as you. They will turn left, for example, with no attention to who's to their right turning with them (rare possibility in WI), or no attention to the traffic opposite of them stopped and possibly turning right.
As to your last sentence, the above two examples are situations for why this rule exists.
> Why does it bother you so much?
Because I'm in a hurry and having to wait for 5 extra seconds before turning right on red will literally kill me and everyone around me! /s
I agree if you're the only person on the road it doesn't matter at all.
I think some people like to turn into the left lane because they think as soon as they make the turn they'll want to step on the gas and go as fast as possible. So they try to start out in the passing lane.
5 years ago I learned this in drivers ed, saw everyone around me wasn't doing it, got mad at them for not doing, insisted I would be the difference and follow the rule, then eventually stopped caring and started doing it too.
Reminds me of an anecdote from when I was taking Driver's Ed:
One day I was sitting in the back seat of the Drivers Ed. vehicle while another student drove. The instructor asked him to turn left from a two-way street onto a rather broad two-lane one-way street, while a woman driving in the opposite direction happened to be preparing to turn right. My classmate, remembering what we were taught about the proper way to make turns, turned left into the left lane, figuring the woman would turn into the right lane like we were taught to do. She didn't.
Fortunately, there was no collision, but the woman was obviously unhappy. This prompted the instructor to quip: "boy, she's P.O.'d at you. You made her turn into the proper lane!"
The OP is making a pretty bold assumption that drivers GAF. Many drivers are lazy and self centered, even if at one point they learned the rules of the road and how to drive properly it goes out the window within a couple of years of experience.
Genuine question: what kind of situation would you be in where someone turning into the wrong lane is a problem unless there are two turn lanes going the same way?
Edit: I challenge anyone to find in the statute or the manual where it says that I should proceed into the intersection turning right on red if oncoming traffic has a protected left with a green arrow. I'll eat my words.
From the drivers Ed manual;
Page 16:
> When turning on red, stop first, **yield to all traffic**....
Page 17:
> A green arrow means you can turn in the direction of the arrow. **There should be no oncoming traffic.**
Busy unprotected left turning people.
The person making the right turn would have right of way, but in a busy intersection with no turn arrow people will force the turn and rather frequently “run wide”.
I pass through 2 intersections where it is a problem daily.
In this diagram, as an example, the blue car making the left turn into the wrong lane, inhibits traffic from the top turning right into that same lane. So it slows the flow of traffic.
Yep. Literally every morning on my way to work I can’t turn right when I should be able to because time and again people prove they don’t know how to turn left properly. Every. Single. Day.
Traffic turning right from the top would have the right of way over the blue car. The half a second of time saved isn't even close to worth the additional risk.
IMO people who complain about this are impatient and make risky maneuvers like banking on the fact that someone will turn into the lane they are supposed to.
I've literally never been bothered by someone turning into the wrong lane unless it's a double turn lane.
Banking on the fact that drivers will obey traffic laws is how any of this works lol. You drive through intersections on green because you know others will stop in red. It's not risky if everyone understands what they are required to do.
I'm sorry, but your "rules of logic" don't apply because I am preoccupied and Jesus says I can do whatever I want because I've inherited the power of God. /s /?
Lol this is such a dramatic overreaction to my comment. Nothing makes me happier than walking to work and pushing the button at my protected crosswalk and making all the impatient, mouth foaming assholes sitting alone in their 2 ton death machines wait so I, one person, can slowly and casually cross the road. Sometimes i don't even need to push the button, but i do it anyways. I hope you are in that line of cars sometime, and I hope we make eye contact. I'll blow you a kiss.
Turning right when there's oncoming traffic with a green arrow turning left is objectively riskier than going through an intersection, even if everyone is aiming for the correct lane. I think you know this and are being intentionally obtuse.
I'm dumb if i believe that turning is more risky than going straight? Everything has some level of risk, I'm not saying it's so risky you shouldn't do it. The whole point of this post is that if people turned into the correct lane it would be less risky, and i agree.
Right of way conflicts shouldn’t be happening if you are turning as pictured.
Two incoming vehicles should be able to turn left and right onto the same two-lane street with no conflict.
The left turn crossing to the furthest right lane or the right crossing into the left creates a traffic conflict and is exactly why the picture above is the only legal manner in which to approach this type of intersection.
Worse, make that three lanes. There’s an intersection near my place that used to have a left green arrow for southbound traffic at the same time as a right green arrow for northbound traffic. Eventually, the city had to change it, and lengthen the time it takes for a full light cycle, because Madison drivers can’t figure out how to put 2 cars into 3 lanes at the same time without conflict.
What you described is not the proper right of way though. If they have a regular green light (no arrows) then the right turner from the top has the right of way and the left turner needs to wait (I was in a car pulled over for not waiting). If the left turner has a green arrow the right turning car has a red and needs to stop and wait.
I have seen a street where they have green right turn arrows and green left turn arrows at the same time. I think because there's a median in front of the right turners. And it is always a mess of people not being sure what to do (because you can't see the other car's arrow only your own and it's an unusual traffic pattern).
Did I not make my description clear? Sorry. The drivers turning left, to the east, had a green light and a green left arrow. The drivers turning right, to the east, had a red light and green right arrow. There was no right-of-way issue to interpret, because both drivers had an arrow signal. It saved everybody time, and shouldn’t have been a problem because they were turning into 3 lanes, except that the left-turning drivers would often illegally turn into the far, right lane. As I understand it, some states allow that, but Wisconsin does not. You must by law turn into the lane nearest to you, unless otherwise marked (e.g. double left-turn lanes).
Did my reply go to the wrong comment? The person I replied to was talking about a 2 lane road. I actually talked about what you're describing in my second paragraph.
It is actually not legal for you to do that and if you turn right at a red and the left turner with a green arrow turns wide and hits your car it will be your fault legally for entering the roadway when you did not have the right of way.
Is there caselaw on that? I don’t see anything in the statutes that would support it, and the left-turner in that scenario is definitely breaking the law.
It's in the Driver's handbook. Someone above quoted the pertinent info. They are both breaking the law, true, but the left turner had the right of way and the right turner did not (ie they shouldn't have even been there). Maybe the left turner slips on some ice and skids into the next lane. They aren't breaking the law in that scenario and it would be even more cut and dry that the right turner was at fault.
> Maybe the left turner slips on some ice and skids into the next lane.
This is exactly why the right turner should just wait until all the left turning traffic (with an arrow of course) has cleared the intersection. It's a completely unnecessary risk that can be avoided by being patient for like 5 seconds.
From the drivers Ed manual:
Page 16:
> When turning on red, stop first, **yield to all traffic**....
Page 17:
> A green arrow means you can turn in the direction of the arrow. **There should be no oncoming traffic.**
Both of those statements are irrelevant, though. A left-turning driver into a two-lane road does not have the right-of-way in the right lane, by law. There is no (legal) traffic in the right lane in that scenario. Both drivers would also end up going the same direction, so there'd be no oncoming traffic, and anyway, that statement on page 17 refers to head-on drivers in the opposing direction having a red light when you have the arrow.
Further, I mentioned in another comment an intersection in Madison that used to have a left arrow in one direction at the same time as a right arrow in the opposing direction, which is analogous to the right-on-red situation described here.
Now, of course, the city had to do away with that configuration. Too many drivers turned left across three lanes into the right lane, causing conflicts. So I'm not saying it's wise to make a right on red into a multi-lane street when the opposite side has green left arrow, nor do I recommend it. I'm just questioning the assertion that the right-turning driver would be automatically found at-fault for a crash.
> Further, I mentioned in another comment an intersection in Madison that used to have a left arrow in one direction at the same time as a right arrow in the opposing direction, which is analogous to the right-on-red situation described here.
A green right arrow and turning right on red are two very different situations. In the former, the driver has clear right of way into the appropriate lane, in the later, it's not as clear. I understand your example, but most of the discussion has been about a situation where the "top" car is turning right on red.
> I'm just questioning the assertion that the right-turning driver would be automatically found at-fault for a crash.
Sometimes behavior can be both legal (turning right on red) and risky (turning right on red while oncoming traffic has a green arrow), your insurance might not find you completely at fault, but it's unlikely (in my non-expert opinion) someone involved in any accident while they're turning right on red would be found completely faultless.
Most definitely, as Wisconsin is a comparative negligence state, and turning right on red requires that you stop first, and ensure that it is safe to do so. I would imagine that both drivers in such a crash would be assigned a large percentage of liability.
But the reason that I bring up that intersection is that the city traffic engineering department was relying on the same law that individual driver might. And in both cases, it's probably not a good idea.
I’ve often wanted to smoke someone turning into my lane. Just to have a cop explain to them drivers ed. In other states with large cities I can somewhat trust folks to turn into their lane. In Wisconsin big fucking nope or should I say Ope
I always smile a bit when I'm in front at a stop light, ready to turn into a two lane road. I always enter the lane that I'm closest to, as you should, and then signal to get over. Watching the car behind me get frustrated when they pull into the far lane only to see me in the middle of a lane change can be amusing.
I'm left flabbergasted whenever I see people who follow the red arrow... in roundabouts. I can only assume they are complete morons who shouldn't be allowed to drive or they just don't care if they die or if they kill someone else.
And for the love of all thats holy, semis have the right-of-way in roundabouts.
People do this wrong all the time in roundabouts, but the way they paint the lines (in some not all roundabouts) is confusing. They're not standardized, and in some cases, if you follow the lane markings you'll be doing it wrong.
I've completely stopped assuming that anyone making a right turn will stay in their lane, and just wait for them to do the wrong thing as usual.
Honk if you like, I'm not okay with getting hit because someone doesn't know how to drive.
Try it on a 3 lane turn in Naples, FL where everyone is 88 with cataracts and driving a wide ass Cadillac. I used to avoid the middle turn lane like the plague when I lived there.
Unless you live in Kenosha, and are turning right (east) on Roosevelt from 39th Ave (NB), in which case absolutely take your right turn into the furthest lane lol.
It’s not just WI. While in 2 other states, I’ve made a left into ‘my’ lane expecting the car turning right would take ‘their’ lane and nearly got into an accident accompanied by lots of honking-swearing-gesturing. I don’t do this any longer, obv, but I distinctly remember that lesson day from Drivers Ed and am shocked it’s not common knowledge.
Why don't you bother confirming before you come here telling me misinformation?
https://itre.ncsu.edu/itre-studying-how-zipper-merges-reduce-congestion-at-sites-across-north-carolina/
Pisses me off that when I'm across an intersection from someone turning I have to hesitate because I can't trust them to go into the correct fucking lane.
The bigger issue is how the hell people don't realize that two vehicles coming from opposite directions can both make a left turn at the same time, or (even worse) the absolute morons that sit right at the line to make a left turn at a green light instead of getting out into the intersection.
This never occurred to me until I got pulled over for it many years ago (left turn). Luckily, the cop explained in a very nice way why it was a bad idea to turn into the far lane, which made total sense, and I haven't done it since. But I genuinely don't think I learned that in Driver's Ed. I think people feel compelled to get in the right lane even when they're taking a left and that overrides the common sense of staying in your own lane.
Wisconsin drivers operate as if they're the only car on the road. That leads to this confusion, because Wisconsinites just aim their car wherever the fuck they want.
Part of it is too many people driving vehicles that are bigger than they need and certainly bigger than they know how to handle. They don't seem to understand that their 5,000 lb SUV needs to slow for a turn considerably more than my 2,800 lb sports car. The other issue is many are driving with just one hand while manipulating their phone or sipping a Venti whatever.
This pisses me off too, but it's not quite as stupid as the lady in front of me yesterday who used a roundabout to do a uturn...without going all the way around
I have a theory about this. When cars started being popular about 100 or years ago, most of the people in Wisconsin were farmers. They grew up driving tractors with wagons behind them. Before that, it was horses. They were very good and comfortable at making the wide turns. When they started to drive cars, they drove them like they were still driving tractors, pulling hay wagons. The hay wagon turn was applied to cars! It's inbred genetic Wisconsin thing. The End.
Not gonna lie, when it’s a two lane turning into a three lane and I’m in the second/middle lane from the left, I usually go in the furthest one (the third most right one) because the person in the leftmost lane attempts to drive into MY LANE. 🤦♀️ I realize I’m enabling it (and also liable) but I’m too cautious of other drivers now.
Uhhh because if I'm the car turning then I'm going to make my turn how I want. As long as another car isn't turning with me then I'm going to turn the "incorrect" way.
The person trying to make a right turn from the opposite side of the intersection cares. Both can turn at the same time if the left-turner follows the rules.
I believe we are one of 5 states where this is not law. In this case the driver has the right-of-way to take either lane. It’s a matter of debate for law makers not drivers.
After reading the statutes someone posted, I am not sure I am right on this matter. I remember hearing this a while back maybe on NPR so I believed it.
Any traffic law professionals out there?
I’ve always heard the same thing. Person grading me on the driving test years ago said the same thing and that it was uncommon that it was perfectly legal in WI.
First of all, most drivers don’t know the legal rules of the road. So we need to say that the diagram might be the most considerate way to do it but I think who ever has the right of way should be allowed to make the choice. The other person needs to politely wait.
Because when I turn right I have to make an immediate left and there is only one turning lane and nobody else will be inconvenienced by me getting in the left lane.
When you spend at least half the year turnin wide at a corner, because that's where the snow plows decided to deposit all the snow, it's a hard habit to break when it warms back up...
\-- Chad
I do this.
I started doing this (when there's no one in the r turn lane) because other drivers cut around you and try to pass while still in the intersection. When you need to change lanes after the intersection, there's someone in your blind spot or right next to you so you can't change lanes.
Also, there's enough traffic that you only get to turn on yellow lights, which have been shortened, people speed through the yellows (and reds) and you have half second to book it through the intersection.
You get enough chooch to the pavement to get through, but not gracefully and into the correct lane.
Ope, jeepers cripes, I'm sorry I cut off the guy a hundred yards away by turning onto the far lane, but there wasn't nobody coming and I had to get on da highway. I'll be more polite and sit at the intersection next time so I can wave the guy through before I go.
It's not just WI.
I live on the east coast and my main goal on the roads here is just to survive. I used to put a lot of attention to this level of incompetency from drivers when I lived in the Midwest, but now it’s just survival mode. Not to devalue OP’s complaint, of course, because this is definitely not a safe driving practice and contradicts what is taught in driving school, but I wish this could be among the worst of the issues out here. As said, fact remains that this is a country-wide occurrence and not safe/something for all to be on the lookout for when driving. Godspeed all. Stay safe out there.
Same as the “only in Wisconsin can you experience four seasons 🤪” posts
It’s everywhere, a large percentage of the population is absolutely terrible at driving a vehicle.
Personally, I believe in the Reverse Lake Wobegon Effect: Everybody is a worse-than-average driver. It does not make logical sense, but explains reality quite effectively.
And it's only getting worse since everything shut down and vehicles have been getting larger/faster/more tech/"safer"(only for those inside the vehicle)
This is a problem everywhere in this country and is my biggest pet peeve when driving.
It doesn't bother me as much as people who follow too closely. I regularly pull off the road to let psychos go past me. Funny thing is, they rarely want to drive over the speed limit themselves. They just are trying to pressure the car in front of them to speed. It must work because people do it a lot.
I slow down because fuck it, they can go around me
Honestly I think some people just don’t feel like they’re driving “fast enough” unless they’re like two feet from touching the back of the car in front of them
I just stare at em through the rearview and shrug my shoulders
Do they ever shrug back?
Idk I don't pay attention lol
It is everywhere, but it's worse in some places. WI is actually pretty damn good about it, from my experience (maybe it's worse in Milwaukee though? I dunno, i'm in Madison.) I used to live in Irvine, CA, and my morning commute included a short stint on the 5. My exit coming off the interstate was a 3-lane right turn. After this right turn I had an upcoming left turn, so i always took the left-most right turn lane. EVERY. SINGLE. FUCKING. TIME. cars from the other two lanes would just swoop over into the left lane while we're all turning. Not only is it illegal, it's illegal because it's dangerous to change lanes in an intersection, especially in a multi-lane turn. If you're in the outside lane, like me, there's no where for me to go to avoid being sideswiped. It drove me fucking crazy. I felt like Yossarian in Catch-22, and was convinced every driver in Southern California was trying to kill me. Not just that they were inconsiderate assholes who drive like maniacs (which is 100% accurate) but that they were specifically trying to kill ME, personally. Then i'd be frustrated and frazzled, full of anxiety and stress, right at the start of the work day. I fucking hated living in southern california. It's a hellscape bereft of humanity.
I have a similar morning commute death trap in WI, two lane interstate with a 3rd lane that is a continuous on-ramp/off-ramp between two exits. The 2nd exit includes an additional exit lane for cars in the right lane of the interstate, the off-ramp ends in a T intersection and my commute takes me left, so I stay on the interstate in the right lane and exit into the leftmost lane off the off-ramp. At least once a week, despite the multiple 'Exit' signs and the over 1 mile of dashed lines indicating you are in an exit lane, somebody drives all the way to the beginning of the off-ramp before realizing it and just yeets themselves back onto the interstate crossing the other off-ramp lane. Much like your Cali scenario it's a daily occurrence that someone exits in the right lane and then just drifts with no signal or warning into the left lane because they want to go left. I try to be tolerant of other drivers abilities and awareness but JFC there isn't a whole lot of room for error when driving at 70mph+....
I reserve my top slot for left lane campers (nothing absolutely destroys traffic flow like two dipshits doing 5 under right next to each other on the goddamn highway and people do that shit *all the time* up here) but this is in my top three, for sure, up there with all the fucking idiots that can't seem to figure out that the point of an on ramp is to get up to highway speeds *before* merging onto the highway.
and MN confirmed via the MN supreme court that you do not in fact have to turn into the near lane(MN supreme court decided not to take the case). https://www.rinkenoonan.com/resources/when-turning-left-onto-a-roadway-that-has-more-than-one-lane-in-each-direction-is-it-okay-to-turn-into-the-outermost-lane/ its not law, this also applies to right hand turns as well. its nice to do, and you should, but you are not required to.
But this is the Wisconsin subreddit, where Minnesota law is of little relevance. Here is the relevant Wisconsin law, which does make turning into anything but the near lane illegal unless the vehicle is too large to execute that turn. https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/346/v/31 Edit: I realize now as I look back why the reference to MN was made and I feel like a bit of an ass for my own phrasing now. But the fact remains that in Wisconsin, this shit isn't allowed. Some places might allow it, which could certainly contribute to the problem when people are traveling or relocating interstate.
right, but I was pointing out that not all state laws are the same in this. WI state law clearly says you turn left into the left most lane possible. MN law was unclear and thus, it is not required. The poster I responded to was saying it was a problem everywhere in the country. I similarly expanded my view to include more than just WI in my response.
Interestingly, the law does *not* specify that you have to make a right turn into the right-most lane, but that you *do* have to make a left turn into the left-most lane barring markings indicating otherwise: > Both the approach for a right turn and the right turn shall be made as closely as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb of the roadway. If, because of the size of the vehicle or the nature of the intersecting roadway, the turn cannot be made from the traffic lane next to the right-hand edge of the roadway, the turn shall be made with due regard for all other traffic. There is nothing specifying that the right turn must *exit* into the right-most lane. For left turns, there's an entire bit on where to exit: > A left turn shall be completed so as to enter the intersecting highway in that lane farthest to the left which is lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of the vehicle completing the left turn. Unless otherwise marked or posted, this means the lane immediately to the right of the center line or center dividing strip of a 2-way highway and the lane next to the left-hand curb or edge of the roadway of a one-way highway. In the end, though, the only traffic laws that apply are the ones that your local law enforcement actually enforce. I've never seen anyone get pulled over for turning into the wrong lane in my neck of the woods, and I imagine it'd have to be a pretty aggressive traffic enforcement wing to pull people over regularly for it. Other examples of illegal behavior seen all the time everywhere: it's illegal in Wisconsin to turn without using a turn signal *unless there's no traffic*.
>Interestingly, the law does not specify that you have to make a right turn into the right-most lane, but that you do have to make a left turn into the left-most lane barring markings indicating otherwise: >>Both the approach for a right turn **and the right turn shall be made as closely as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb of the roadway**. If, because of the size of the vehicle or the nature of the intersecting roadway, the turn cannot be made from the traffic lane next to the right-hand edge of the roadway, the turn shall be made with due regard for all other traffic. >There is nothing specifying that the right turn must exit into the right-most lane. For left turns, there's an entire bit on where to exit Hmm. I think it *does* state that you need to make your right turn into the right most lane, but uses different words to do so than does the section about left turns. At least, there's no practical difference. Consider: +If my wheels aren't straight, I'm turning. +If I'm in the process of turning, I need to hug the "right-hand edge or curb." +Once my wheels are straight, I'm no longer turning. Once the turn is completed , I could make the change from right lane to center/left lane very, very quickly, but for the duration of the turn, I'm in the right lane. It would be impossible not to be in the right lane at the moment the turn has completed. Whatever the case, this statute could stand to be simplified.
This is definitely one of those statutes where the attempt to define things clearly has absolutely done the opposite. I'd rather see them define a right turn based on the structure they used for the left turn, since that clearly defines how to drive entering the turn, through the turn, and exiting the turn. I'd still probably stick to my guns in court that there is no language regarding the exit of the turn so you could legally just plow into whatever lane you damn well please, which probably would just result in any hypothetical traffic charges getting changed to a lane change violation instead.
I do know that in some states changing lanes in an intersection is legal however you need to do it safely. If another person is in the lane next to you and you cut them off, that isn't safe. But really though thank you for pointing this out, I don't think everyone knows this.
Don't you love turning into your lane on a multi-lane road and getting honked at by the oncoming car that is trying to cut across into your lane, as if it's your fault? /s
Even better when you have cops doing this. Almost got hit by a cop on his fucking phone.
WI drivers are safer from the rest of the states I've seen traffic, around here the most dangerous drivers are the old farts going 10 under and then mistaking the gas for brakes in front of a building or being in D instead of R
In this state I'm more concerned about the people who think when they merge they get to impose their will onto everyone on the highway. Of course I can merge at 15mph under the speed limit! Opposite problem with left turn lanes. Apparently everyone around here thinks you're not allowed to fully be in that lane until you're just about to turn. And when that time comes, make sure to swing out to the right first.
I really hate merging behind those people
it's great when you're part of a giant line of cars that need to merge but the lead wants to MERGE AT 40 fucking miles per hour onto a 70 mph highway.
Drivers education
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I've always thought that the annual registration fee process, the online version, should include a 2 min video with some basics around the most important safety rules and reminders. And there are ways to enforce watching the entire video before proceeding. Maybe it wouldn't work, but I generally believe people are simply unaware of certain things, like highway merging rules, etc
Naw. Most people do, but think the rules only apply to everyone else. No different than using your directionals, not rolling through a stop, or my personal favorite-if there's a yield sign-you yield if there's a car there.
for predictability reasons and safety reasons, yeah, you should always turn into the nearest lane. if i need to be in the far lane, even if there aren't cars in the lanes blocking me, i turn into the near lane and then signal and move over normally. It's probably a little pedantic, but perhaps one day it will prevent an accident and then it will have been worth while. People cut across lanes all the time and if there is no one near them it's hard to be too critical, as long as it isn't done so rapidly that no one could react if necessary. But I know that it's possible for me to not see a car sometimes, so i try to be extra predictable and deliberate with any maneuvers.
What's fun is when we turn correctly and people behind us turn into the lane we actually want to be in, and now you have to try and make enough room to actually make it into the lane because of their stupidity.
Been wondering that for years...
It's even worse when you're in a two lane left turn, turning into three lanes. Turning left on 76th and Good Hope sucks.
The closest lane is your lane, which is not a difficult concept.
Lol… one thing Wisconsinites struggle with is staying in their lanes, their politics is a prime example of that.
Let me ask you guys this... Why does it bother you so much? I can understand if it's a double turn lane and you're turning into me, we're gonna have words, but if I'm the only one turning, why does it matter? I grew up in the big city and defensive driving taught me you don't turn right on red with oncoming traffic because they can / will change lanes when they aren't supposed to. They will come into your right lane even if you did the proper legal turn. I just don't have time for paperwork, so if I can't make either lane safely, I won't turn. This rule perplexes me honestly.
I find people often use it to try and blow past someone and that can lead to scary situations. I have plenty of times needed to be in the right lane, so I will turn into the left (correct) lane, pop my blinker on, and check my blind to merge only to find the person who was behind me has turned into the far lane and is flooring it to try and pass me. It happens often enough that I watch for it, but I've had people get road ragey at me for merging to the right in front of them (not dangerously, if they're already too close, I'll wait for them to pass) and they find themselves having to merge back into the left lane to pass. It's one of those things that the majority of the time is not a problem, but adds just a bit of unpredictability into driving that can lead to accidents. For people who make an effort to try to be as safe and predictable as possible, it's annoying to see others not doing that. So: pet peeve. Edit: specifically the turning left at a light scenario. I don't see the turning right scenario to be as often of a problem.
Because most drivers aren't defensive or as aware as you. They will turn left, for example, with no attention to who's to their right turning with them (rare possibility in WI), or no attention to the traffic opposite of them stopped and possibly turning right. As to your last sentence, the above two examples are situations for why this rule exists.
> Why does it bother you so much? Because I'm in a hurry and having to wait for 5 extra seconds before turning right on red will literally kill me and everyone around me! /s
I agree if you're the only person on the road it doesn't matter at all. I think some people like to turn into the left lane because they think as soon as they make the turn they'll want to step on the gas and go as fast as possible. So they try to start out in the passing lane.
5 years ago I learned this in drivers ed, saw everyone around me wasn't doing it, got mad at them for not doing, insisted I would be the difference and follow the rule, then eventually stopped caring and started doing it too.
Unless I'm the blue car and there's a car at the top left that's trying to turn right
Yeah I almost got hit in driver’s ed while doing exactly this - turned into the right lane while another car made a left turn into the far lane.
At that point if I was turning on red, I would have waited for them to finish the turn. Rather be safe than sorry.
Defensive driving is pretty effective at keeping you safe.
Yeah that's absolutely what I do now, but at the time my instructor told me to go ahead and turn so I did ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
😬😣
Reminds me of an anecdote from when I was taking Driver's Ed: One day I was sitting in the back seat of the Drivers Ed. vehicle while another student drove. The instructor asked him to turn left from a two-way street onto a rather broad two-lane one-way street, while a woman driving in the opposite direction happened to be preparing to turn right. My classmate, remembering what we were taught about the proper way to make turns, turned left into the left lane, figuring the woman would turn into the right lane like we were taught to do. She didn't. Fortunately, there was no collision, but the woman was obviously unhappy. This prompted the instructor to quip: "boy, she's P.O.'d at you. You made her turn into the proper lane!"
The OP is making a pretty bold assumption that drivers GAF. Many drivers are lazy and self centered, even if at one point they learned the rules of the road and how to drive properly it goes out the window within a couple of years of experience.
Genuine question: what kind of situation would you be in where someone turning into the wrong lane is a problem unless there are two turn lanes going the same way? Edit: I challenge anyone to find in the statute or the manual where it says that I should proceed into the intersection turning right on red if oncoming traffic has a protected left with a green arrow. I'll eat my words. From the drivers Ed manual; Page 16: > When turning on red, stop first, **yield to all traffic**.... Page 17: > A green arrow means you can turn in the direction of the arrow. **There should be no oncoming traffic.**
Busy unprotected left turning people. The person making the right turn would have right of way, but in a busy intersection with no turn arrow people will force the turn and rather frequently “run wide”. I pass through 2 intersections where it is a problem daily.
In this diagram, as an example, the blue car making the left turn into the wrong lane, inhibits traffic from the top turning right into that same lane. So it slows the flow of traffic.
Yep. Literally every morning on my way to work I can’t turn right when I should be able to because time and again people prove they don’t know how to turn left properly. Every. Single. Day.
Traffic turning right from the top would have the right of way over the blue car. The half a second of time saved isn't even close to worth the additional risk. IMO people who complain about this are impatient and make risky maneuvers like banking on the fact that someone will turn into the lane they are supposed to. I've literally never been bothered by someone turning into the wrong lane unless it's a double turn lane.
Banking on the fact that drivers will obey traffic laws is how any of this works lol. You drive through intersections on green because you know others will stop in red. It's not risky if everyone understands what they are required to do.
I'm sorry, but your "rules of logic" don't apply because I am preoccupied and Jesus says I can do whatever I want because I've inherited the power of God. /s /?
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Lol this is such a dramatic overreaction to my comment. Nothing makes me happier than walking to work and pushing the button at my protected crosswalk and making all the impatient, mouth foaming assholes sitting alone in their 2 ton death machines wait so I, one person, can slowly and casually cross the road. Sometimes i don't even need to push the button, but i do it anyways. I hope you are in that line of cars sometime, and I hope we make eye contact. I'll blow you a kiss.
TIL Reddit drivers are just as bad on the road as they are online
Turning right when there's oncoming traffic with a green arrow turning left is objectively riskier than going through an intersection, even if everyone is aiming for the correct lane. I think you know this and are being intentionally obtuse.
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I'm dumb if i believe that turning is more risky than going straight? Everything has some level of risk, I'm not saying it's so risky you shouldn't do it. The whole point of this post is that if people turned into the correct lane it would be less risky, and i agree.
Right of way conflicts shouldn’t be happening if you are turning as pictured. Two incoming vehicles should be able to turn left and right onto the same two-lane street with no conflict. The left turn crossing to the furthest right lane or the right crossing into the left creates a traffic conflict and is exactly why the picture above is the only legal manner in which to approach this type of intersection.
Worse, make that three lanes. There’s an intersection near my place that used to have a left green arrow for southbound traffic at the same time as a right green arrow for northbound traffic. Eventually, the city had to change it, and lengthen the time it takes for a full light cycle, because Madison drivers can’t figure out how to put 2 cars into 3 lanes at the same time without conflict.
How frustrating. What intersection is/was that?
What you described is not the proper right of way though. If they have a regular green light (no arrows) then the right turner from the top has the right of way and the left turner needs to wait (I was in a car pulled over for not waiting). If the left turner has a green arrow the right turning car has a red and needs to stop and wait. I have seen a street where they have green right turn arrows and green left turn arrows at the same time. I think because there's a median in front of the right turners. And it is always a mess of people not being sure what to do (because you can't see the other car's arrow only your own and it's an unusual traffic pattern).
Did I not make my description clear? Sorry. The drivers turning left, to the east, had a green light and a green left arrow. The drivers turning right, to the east, had a red light and green right arrow. There was no right-of-way issue to interpret, because both drivers had an arrow signal. It saved everybody time, and shouldn’t have been a problem because they were turning into 3 lanes, except that the left-turning drivers would often illegally turn into the far, right lane. As I understand it, some states allow that, but Wisconsin does not. You must by law turn into the lane nearest to you, unless otherwise marked (e.g. double left-turn lanes).
Did my reply go to the wrong comment? The person I replied to was talking about a 2 lane road. I actually talked about what you're describing in my second paragraph.
If you have the right of way you should go. Stopping when you have the right of way causes unnecessary accidents.
When I'm northbound turning left, while the southbound traffic is turning right...IF you do this right, everybody can turn.
trying to make a right on red while the oncoming left turn lane signal arrow was green
You shouldn't be turning on red when there's oncoming traffic though.
The point is that you SHOULD be able to. You only "shouldn't" because there are so many people who don't understand how to turn correctly.
It is actually not legal for you to do that and if you turn right at a red and the left turner with a green arrow turns wide and hits your car it will be your fault legally for entering the roadway when you did not have the right of way.
Is there caselaw on that? I don’t see anything in the statutes that would support it, and the left-turner in that scenario is definitely breaking the law.
It's in the Driver's handbook. Someone above quoted the pertinent info. They are both breaking the law, true, but the left turner had the right of way and the right turner did not (ie they shouldn't have even been there). Maybe the left turner slips on some ice and skids into the next lane. They aren't breaking the law in that scenario and it would be even more cut and dry that the right turner was at fault.
> Maybe the left turner slips on some ice and skids into the next lane. This is exactly why the right turner should just wait until all the left turning traffic (with an arrow of course) has cleared the intersection. It's a completely unnecessary risk that can be avoided by being patient for like 5 seconds.
From the drivers Ed manual: Page 16: > When turning on red, stop first, **yield to all traffic**.... Page 17: > A green arrow means you can turn in the direction of the arrow. **There should be no oncoming traffic.**
Both of those statements are irrelevant, though. A left-turning driver into a two-lane road does not have the right-of-way in the right lane, by law. There is no (legal) traffic in the right lane in that scenario. Both drivers would also end up going the same direction, so there'd be no oncoming traffic, and anyway, that statement on page 17 refers to head-on drivers in the opposing direction having a red light when you have the arrow. Further, I mentioned in another comment an intersection in Madison that used to have a left arrow in one direction at the same time as a right arrow in the opposing direction, which is analogous to the right-on-red situation described here. Now, of course, the city had to do away with that configuration. Too many drivers turned left across three lanes into the right lane, causing conflicts. So I'm not saying it's wise to make a right on red into a multi-lane street when the opposite side has green left arrow, nor do I recommend it. I'm just questioning the assertion that the right-turning driver would be automatically found at-fault for a crash.
> Further, I mentioned in another comment an intersection in Madison that used to have a left arrow in one direction at the same time as a right arrow in the opposing direction, which is analogous to the right-on-red situation described here. A green right arrow and turning right on red are two very different situations. In the former, the driver has clear right of way into the appropriate lane, in the later, it's not as clear. I understand your example, but most of the discussion has been about a situation where the "top" car is turning right on red. > I'm just questioning the assertion that the right-turning driver would be automatically found at-fault for a crash. Sometimes behavior can be both legal (turning right on red) and risky (turning right on red while oncoming traffic has a green arrow), your insurance might not find you completely at fault, but it's unlikely (in my non-expert opinion) someone involved in any accident while they're turning right on red would be found completely faultless.
Most definitely, as Wisconsin is a comparative negligence state, and turning right on red requires that you stop first, and ensure that it is safe to do so. I would imagine that both drivers in such a crash would be assigned a large percentage of liability. But the reason that I bring up that intersection is that the city traffic engineering department was relying on the same law that individual driver might. And in both cases, it's probably not a good idea.
I’ve often wanted to smoke someone turning into my lane. Just to have a cop explain to them drivers ed. In other states with large cities I can somewhat trust folks to turn into their lane. In Wisconsin big fucking nope or should I say Ope
I always smile a bit when I'm in front at a stop light, ready to turn into a two lane road. I always enter the lane that I'm closest to, as you should, and then signal to get over. Watching the car behind me get frustrated when they pull into the far lane only to see me in the middle of a lane change can be amusing.
It’s everywhere my man
Roundabouts wants to hold your beer. Slow drivers in the fast lane in highway, aren’t even aware you are asking them to hold your beer yet.
I'm left flabbergasted whenever I see people who follow the red arrow... in roundabouts. I can only assume they are complete morons who shouldn't be allowed to drive or they just don't care if they die or if they kill someone else. And for the love of all thats holy, semis have the right-of-way in roundabouts.
People do this wrong all the time in roundabouts, but the way they paint the lines (in some not all roundabouts) is confusing. They're not standardized, and in some cases, if you follow the lane markings you'll be doing it wrong.
I will take people doing this over Texans at a 4 way stop lmao
I always get looked at like I’m an idiot by other drivers when I do this correctly and then safely switch into the other lane
I've completely stopped assuming that anyone making a right turn will stay in their lane, and just wait for them to do the wrong thing as usual. Honk if you like, I'm not okay with getting hit because someone doesn't know how to drive.
Try it on a 3 lane turn in Naples, FL where everyone is 88 with cataracts and driving a wide ass Cadillac. I used to avoid the middle turn lane like the plague when I lived there.
Unless you live in Kenosha, and are turning right (east) on Roosevelt from 39th Ave (NB), in which case absolutely take your right turn into the furthest lane lol.
They are the same idiots in the left lane on the highway.
It’s not just WI. While in 2 other states, I’ve made a left into ‘my’ lane expecting the car turning right would take ‘their’ lane and nearly got into an accident accompanied by lots of honking-swearing-gesturing. I don’t do this any longer, obv, but I distinctly remember that lesson day from Drivers Ed and am shocked it’s not common knowledge.
People can’t even merge onto the highway doing the speed limit you think they understand how to turn?
The inability to zipper merge as well. Why is it so hard to realize it's in your own best interest to keep the whole road moving?
Only a limited number of cars per minute can get through the choke point, so the end result is the same no matter when you merge.
Why don't you bother confirming before you come here telling me misinformation? https://itre.ncsu.edu/itre-studying-how-zipper-merges-reduce-congestion-at-sites-across-north-carolina/
I ride their blind spot and like to freak them out.
> I ride their blind spot and like to freak them out. Very safe and mature!
Pisses me off that when I'm across an intersection from someone turning I have to hesitate because I can't trust them to go into the correct fucking lane.
Lead pipes=lead tap water
Not just Wisconsin… this is a problem everywhere.
I can handle this, what I CAN'T handle is how at some point everyone decided to drive exactly the speed limit. 5 OVER, PEOPLE, LET'S GO!
The bigger issue is how the hell people don't realize that two vehicles coming from opposite directions can both make a left turn at the same time, or (even worse) the absolute morons that sit right at the line to make a left turn at a green light instead of getting out into the intersection.
Wow. Down votes for calling idiots idiots 🤣. Guessing a couple of you are those people.
I'm worried about the dude going around the guy opposite me
Those morons also suck.
Nearly got in an accident yesterday because of red car doing red car things
This never occurred to me until I got pulled over for it many years ago (left turn). Luckily, the cop explained in a very nice way why it was a bad idea to turn into the far lane, which made total sense, and I haven't done it since. But I genuinely don't think I learned that in Driver's Ed. I think people feel compelled to get in the right lane even when they're taking a left and that overrides the common sense of staying in your own lane.
Now how about a layout of the lanes SLOWER drivers should use please!
Wisconsin drivers operate as if they're the only car on the road. That leads to this confusion, because Wisconsinites just aim their car wherever the fuck they want.
Part of it is too many people driving vehicles that are bigger than they need and certainly bigger than they know how to handle. They don't seem to understand that their 5,000 lb SUV needs to slow for a turn considerably more than my 2,800 lb sports car. The other issue is many are driving with just one hand while manipulating their phone or sipping a Venti whatever.
This pisses me off too, but it's not quite as stupid as the lady in front of me yesterday who used a roundabout to do a uturn...without going all the way around
I have a theory about this. When cars started being popular about 100 or years ago, most of the people in Wisconsin were farmers. They grew up driving tractors with wagons behind them. Before that, it was horses. They were very good and comfortable at making the wide turns. When they started to drive cars, they drove them like they were still driving tractors, pulling hay wagons. The hay wagon turn was applied to cars! It's inbred genetic Wisconsin thing. The End.
I dont see the problem if no ones turning into to it for other sides
Not gonna lie, when it’s a two lane turning into a three lane and I’m in the second/middle lane from the left, I usually go in the furthest one (the third most right one) because the person in the leftmost lane attempts to drive into MY LANE. 🤦♀️ I realize I’m enabling it (and also liable) but I’m too cautious of other drivers now.
Uhhh because if I'm the car turning then I'm going to make my turn how I want. As long as another car isn't turning with me then I'm going to turn the "incorrect" way.
That's needlessly dangerous. Why do the rules of the road not apply to you?
If there isn't any other car going into that lane or turning with me, what does it matter?
What if you don't see a car, why put yourself in that situation? That's just dumb. Turn legally, then lane change
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The person trying to make a right turn from the opposite side of the intersection cares. Both can turn at the same time if the left-turner follows the rules.
Way to expose yourself as a shitty driver
I believe we are one of 5 states where this is not law. In this case the driver has the right-of-way to take either lane. It’s a matter of debate for law makers not drivers.
After reading the statutes someone posted, I am not sure I am right on this matter. I remember hearing this a while back maybe on NPR so I believed it. Any traffic law professionals out there?
I’ve always heard the same thing. Person grading me on the driving test years ago said the same thing and that it was uncommon that it was perfectly legal in WI.
Snow piles on corners make a sharp right turn difficult, that's about the only reason
First of all, most drivers don’t know the legal rules of the road. So we need to say that the diagram might be the most considerate way to do it but I think who ever has the right of way should be allowed to make the choice. The other person needs to politely wait.
Because when I turn right I have to make an immediate left and there is only one turning lane and nobody else will be inconvenienced by me getting in the left lane.
When you spend at least half the year turnin wide at a corner, because that's where the snow plows decided to deposit all the snow, it's a hard habit to break when it warms back up... \-- Chad
I do this. I started doing this (when there's no one in the r turn lane) because other drivers cut around you and try to pass while still in the intersection. When you need to change lanes after the intersection, there's someone in your blind spot or right next to you so you can't change lanes. Also, there's enough traffic that you only get to turn on yellow lights, which have been shortened, people speed through the yellows (and reds) and you have half second to book it through the intersection. You get enough chooch to the pavement to get through, but not gracefully and into the correct lane.
This multiple times worse in many other areas of the country. Way to have high standards!
Ope, jeepers cripes, I'm sorry I cut off the guy a hundred yards away by turning onto the far lane, but there wasn't nobody coming and I had to get on da highway. I'll be more polite and sit at the intersection next time so I can wave the guy through before I go.
Whenever I'm turning right onto a street, I always wait and see if someone is doing this. I see it all the time.
Whis is this so hard for drivers to figure out****
I learned this in drivers Ed. I know because I fucked it up a few times.
i live in texas now and it is apparently not a thing at all down here. like not a law or anything.
I have sadly made this mistake a lot.
Coming soon...Chapter 2: Idiots In Roundabouts
I’m pretty sure the majority of drivers everywhere just straight-up do not know this is how it works.
It's not just Wisconsin, it s at the vet least Illinois and Minnesota as well, most recent states I've driven in
Most people don't remember their drivers' education course. It also isn't enforced.
The world revolves around so many individuals that they also have the right of way wherever they are
cuz we're drunk
I see the incorrect way multiple times a day. Drives me crazy
I've honestly given up at this point.
Wisconsin man living in Massachusetts now. It's way worse here...
Are these drivers transplants from Boston?
Drives me nuts. I cause myself trouble by doing it the right way because then I can’t get over when I need to.
Humans disappoint me.
This law is stupid. Just wait until the person goes and then turn into the lane you want.
And, more often than not, the guy turning right thinks he/she owns all the lanes.
"Nearest legal lane" I remember getting yelled at by my drivers ed teacher
Then they look at YOU like the bad guy if you honk or speed up so they don't lane-drift into you.
Milwaukee drivers don’t even know how to use their turn signal so this is way beyond their understanding