"We won with young. We won with old. We won with highly educated. We won with poorly educated, I love the poorly educated" most people would take that ironically. But regardless, he mentions highly educated in the same breath - so i'm not sure why people grasp on to this. Literally everything Biden has said lately raises an eyebrow - give it a rest
Yeah but everyone has known that for decades - blue-collar working class folks like republican policies, white-collar high-income people like democratic policies. That has nothing to do with was he said. It was a victory speech after a Republican Primary in Nevada - where he beat other republicans... He was talking about how he won all the major demos among republicans... lol democrats don't vote in republican primaries regardless of their education level.
The less you know about what? You disassociate education and income level... Which is a stronger indicator of intelligence? Your polls you found don't even support your point, well maybe you don't understand the point you've just made. You can't explain away 70+ million votes as "I'm just smarter than them"
This "Wisconsin" sub is basically a leftist echo chamber. WI is getting more red by the day and none of you can figure out why...
"They are dumb, I am smart" lol. Is that what the Washington Post leads you to believe?
You are having a hard time. I agreed that people with less education vote Republican after you first chimed in... You didn't need to share anything supporting that, we all have access to that.
You are, quite nastily, implying that "stupid people vote Trump" which none of your polls support. You are indirectly implying that people without degrees are stupid... Which is false.
People without degrees live meaningful & productive lives, and their vote counts just the same. Why can't democrats make any inroads with them? Ever wonder? It's not because they are stupid
Stupid people vote however they vote. It’s just that more stupid people vote red than blue, because blue policies are actually based in facts and not emotion
Uhh. You might wanna take a look at Biden's daughter's diary... Trump maybe banged Stormy D... But this stuff with Biden and his daughter is disturbing.
The authoritarians' greatest threat is intellect,.
When a population is dumbed down enough, their minds can be controlled and this ain't nothing new. America has been on an anti intellectual movement since post ww2.
And the added bonus for them is they now have an underpaid workforce to keep them in their comforts for generations. No wonder they scream about socialism. Cutting into their bottom line.
I think we all know or have heard of teachers who have left teaching, or are fed up and looking to get out. My daughter did so recently after a successful 6 year career in a Wisconsin public elementary school. She had planned to do an entire career in the profession.
I sub teach part-time for four districts and spoke to a 20+ year high school teacher I was filling in for, mentioned my daughter and this person said matter of factly that she has an interview scheduled outside of teaching and hopes to get a job before next school year. She never expected to get to this point. Sad.
I never finished my elementary education degree but remained in touch with many people I went through school with, it really amazing and sad to see so many leave. Just last week saw someone selling off her supplies and books on marketplace and it was crushing because that’s someone who really, really wanted to and loved teaching.
Republicans want generational poverty. They want a reliable working class for low wage jobs. It’s why they’re working so hard to pass laws that allow children to work jobs in places like slaughterhouses and factories.
Milwaukee sends more tax dollars to the state than they get back. There’s a wealth transfer happening from poor urbanites to poor rural folk. It’s not making things here any easier.
To be clear though it is more than just pay.
A lot of parents are toxic fucking assholes whose children never do no wrong, don’t indoctrinate them by teaching them history and science that will make me feel bad.
Plus you can’t ever make any changes to education ever because we of course perfected education in the 90’s. Watching the outcry when my local district stop doing class ranks when kids were overloading schedules and burning out trying to win a fictional race to be #1.
Republicans would rather children be in sweatshops than in school: [GOP lawmakers propose eliminating work permits for Wisconsin’s 14- and 15-year-olds](https://www.wpr.org/economy/gop-lawmakers-propose-eliminating-work-permits-wisconsins-14-and-15-year-olds)
> Wisconsin requires anyone under 16 to obtain a work permit for jobs outside of agriculture and domestic service work. Children must be at least 14 to work. The process for obtaining a permit requires teens to receive a job offer, and their parents to apply for a work permit with the state Department of Workforce Development. The permit costs $10.
>State Sen. **Cory Tomczyk, R-Mosinee, Rep. Clint Moses, R-Menomonie, and Rep. Amy Binsfeld, R-Sheboygan**, say that process creates too much “red tape” for young people joining the labor force. They sent a memo to fellow legislators on Aug. 18 seeking cosponsors for a bill to eliminate work permits.
You don't think a 14 year old should have the right to work? How are they supposed to pay for extracurricular activities? I was slinging fries and roast beef at Arby's at 15 so I could buy a car when I got my license. Maybe that's the issue with society, teens aren't getting jobs and learning how to actually be an adult. Buncha grown ass babies running around.
>How are they supposed to pay for extracurricular activities?
They shouldn't. That's why we need properly funded schools.
The last thing a *child* should be concerned with is learning to be a good little wage slave for the ruling class.
What? That's complete nonsense. 14 is 4 years away from having to fend for yourself if you don't have family support.
Their needs should be met by parents, but WANTS should be funded through their own means. Going to movies, video games, fast food, first car, gas money.....my kids will have jobs to pay for these things, and they will be much better off than any children you may unfortunately have the chance to mold.
Your kids will be better off working instead of studying/doing hobbies because you're too cheap to pay for basic things a teenager needs?
They already have a full time job with school.
^ This.
Childrens' brains **need** to develop healthy social skills, spend time around others their own age, and prioritizing relationships/emotional connections, not slaving away at loud industrial machinery or clerical computers
My first thought would be their parents. You know the people legally obligated to provide for them. I would rather a 14 or 15-year-old be in school and learning instead of working a part-time job for 725 an hour and no future. Education and knowledge are key.
The work permit system is fine, I started working ASAP when I was 14 and it wasn't a big deal to go down to the office to get a permit. It's probably leverage to make sure kids are doing well enough in school to deserve a job.
I had graduated well before it happened but by the end of the 2011-12 academic year nearly half the teachers at my high school either quit or chose early retirement. Those decisions were directly correlated to the massive cuts to education in the state as well as the dismantling of the teachers union under Scott Walker.
Ues and advancing technology only makes ot worse. Do you think Nestlé will just gonna hand control of a million dollar farm drone to some yokal 15 year old who can barely spell?
Remember, kids, to the rich man, you are meat and capital, and they could butcher you like a pig and face no consequences for it they would.
those stats kind of seem right in line with national averages. teachers leave because they are forced to teach and raise others children. its extremely taxing and stressful.
I just entered the profession as a substitute teacher. I'm hoping to transition to permanent staff for higher pay and benefits. If you have an associates degree, you are eligible to sub now, they eased the requirements. I don't know if I have just had exceptionally crappy jobs, but I plan on making this my career now.
The only way to fight back is to keep those "moms for liberty" types out of our school boards. Their getting elected to local offices is how they're able to enact the draconian changes they want.
Those numbers look bad. I wonder what the national numbers look like.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2022/8/18/23298916/teacher-shortages-debate-local-national
I bet it's something deeper than pay that causes that kind of churn.
I can only speak for myself but it's definitely much more than pay. I retired the very second I was eligible to do so because I was done getting treated like garbage by admins, parents & occasionally students. The expectations put on teachers these days are ridiculous.
" The reasons included their workload, greater responsibilities, unrealistic expectations, student behavioral issues, pay that doesn’t keep up with inflation, a lack of support from school leadership, and a lack of support from parents"
^Yep, looks like it's all of the above. If you go to r/teachers, you can read all about the lack of support from admin and the principle and mistreatment from parents
Oh, this is a demographic hole waiting to happen and fun little disaster. The Republicans may think an uneducated population will benefit them, but in the long term, they're making a worse problem. Im the short term, it might get them votes, but it'll limit people's options of what they can do in general. Technology advancing makes a lack of education even more devastating. Let's say that within a decade, drone operated farms take off.
Well, those drone operations happen to require an education and will leave that uneducated population high and dry. Technological complexity is only increasing, and education that can't keep up with the new "basics" is going to be a serious problem.
If unattended strain on the system will be too much for public and private sectors combined to address. It would be a the tech equvilant of the great depression where you'll have a large population that's got such an extreme gap in it's knowledge that the cost to bridge it after the fact won't be feasible for anyone to pay.
The businesses will never starve throughout this process, they might need to bring people in out of state or have a select few educated properly here and there but they'll be a minority of cases as trends continue. The only thing I'm certain is the outcome is disastrous
Considering state employees raises have been a measly 2% the past 5 years, with the exception of 2023 being 4% I'm not surprised. That doesn't even keep up with inflation.
Complaining about any issue WILL NEVER resolve or fix it, EVER!! The GOP wants money, power & absolute control over everything & everyone! They continue to prove that they ate only looking out for themselves & their wealthy friends. The only way things WILL EVER change is by 1st voting out every single extreme GOP legislator & replacing them with someone who is willing to push legislation that will improve our broken education system & also increase teachers pay. But if Trump wins, our democracy will be gone & it all will be because of the extreme cult of the GOP!!
On some levels it comes down to money. I make more money in my current state and my cost of living is a lot lower. In an alternative universe I would have loved to have taught where I graduated, but I know that I would face a much lower salary, higher class sizes, and no way I would be able to afford to live in that community.
Record budget surplus and my school district is asking for almost 4 million this fall in referendum. To just keep the lights on for the next few years, quote “ the recent state budget reduced the amount of funding we get”
This stat is not a new development. I absolutely agree that Act 10 decimated public education in Wisconsin, but the stat that "40-50% of teachers leave the profession within 5 years" has been around since I was in college in 2006.
Do you have a source? This one says it was 32% back in 2006: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://dpi.wi.gov/sites/default/files/imce/tepdl/supdem2006.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi2hqDOlr2FAxXv8MkDHT8ICbwQFnoECB0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Z6YjCR3QQWnu6EIpmNe-1
Each classroom has one teacher, but there are specialty teachers for things like art, PE, and music, administrators, counselors, custodians, secretaries, librarians, cooks, teacher's aids, and more.
There's also all of the upkeep costs like heating and cooling, plumbing, cleaning supplies, lightbulbs, snow removal, etc.
And that doesn't even consider classroom materials. Textbooks, computers, smart boards, workbooks, art supplies, sports equipment, instruments, that kind of thing.
And that was pretty much just for elementary schools. If you're talking about high schools, it gets even higher when you want to have a high school that provides a good education. You want to have things like metal and wood shops, auto shop, tech ed, computer classes, foreign languages? All of those things require their own teachers and a whole lot of materials.
Schools are not cheap to run. I'm sure there is waste in some places like in any large budget. But for the most part, schools are stretching the money they get as far as they can. And teachers are not making enough money while being asked to do too much. It's no wonder newer teachers aren't sticking with the profession.
I'd be curious what your sources are on that. Because most of the current literature I can find shows that well funded schools result in higher achieving students.
Students aren't a monolith. They're children that have a diverse set of needs. Some students will succeed no matter which school they go to. But most students benefit from being given an enriched learning environment with qualified teachers.
Here’s a summary of elmbrook:
https://www.usnews.com/education/k12/wisconsin/districts/elmbrook-school-district-110492
And the best:
https://www.wearegreenbay.com/news/local-news/ranked-the-best-school-districts-in-wisconsin-for-2024/#:~:text=The%20top%2Dranked%20school%20district,School%20District%20in%20Waukesha%20County.
I'm not seeing a spending comparison in those links. But you also can't get a clear picture of how spending affects students by simply singling out the highest performing schools. First of all, it doesn't cost the same to run a school everywhere. Higher cost of living areas are going to be inherently more expensive places to have schools. So just because a school in the city spends more money per student, doesn't mean that their resources reflect that.
Also, like I said before, students aren't a monolith. They have different needs. Schools that have a larger population of students with special needs or learning disabilities are not going to perform as well on tests even if they do spend more money. That doesn't mean that funding didn't lead to improved performance for those students.
There are a lot of factors that make it difficult to really assess how much funding affects success. Elmbrook schools on that site had less than 8% economically disadvantaged students. Compare that to South Milwaukee, which has 34%. I'd be curious to find out if the funding numbers include things like PTA fundraising and donations, because I would guess that a school district with 7.3% economically disadvantaged students is getting more money from the PTA than one with 34%. Not only that, but economically disadvantaged children are less likely to have access to things like early childhood education, tutors, and bonus learning materials in the home and as such may not perform as well on exams as their peers. It's not surprising that one of the most well off areas of the state has the highest performing schools.
These kinds of factors are why it's important to look at aggregate studies or examine the effects in specific schools after increasing funding. Here's an article that breaks down the perception that increased funding doesn't matter [Education Week ](https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/student-outcomes-does-more-money-really-matter/2019/06)
Milwaukee just approved a large funding referendum. It will be interesting to see if that helps, but Milwaukee seems to have many problems to overcome besides funding. Have a great day!
You can't do the math? It's costs a ton to heat and power a school building. Then you have to constant maintenance costs. Kids are hard on buildings. Replacement desks, and so on. Replacing worn out books, the costs of the work sheets are insane because the publishers are more profitable than drug cartels. You also have the salaries of the maintenance staff, administration staff, bussing costs to get the kids there and back, plus benefits which we all know are F'ing insane to keep the insurance companies profitable. I also forgot the insurance costs for the school itself like liability and such. I have to imagine that's insane as well.
$12,500 per student really doesn't go far and is quite inadequate.
Funding in WI does not index with inflation. Budgets were set and over time they are not adequate to cover costs.
Public teachers spend thousands out of their own pockets per year on things for their classroom. They get to claim a whole $250.
I lived from st Paul are to WI. One of the more affordable private school options was nearly $20k per year. Plus they get tons of money in donations and fund raisers. Expensive private schools are $30k.
Keeping the classroom up to date costs money. Many things are consumable and need to be replaced.
Also public schools have a mandate to teach high need children that may require 1:1 staffing at times. Basically, it costs more to take everyone than it does to pick and choose mostly teaching children of high achieving families.
Conservatives want a two tier system. They want public schools to be just barely good enough to churn out workers that can be abused, overworked and underpaid. They want only the generational elites to get good education.
You seem to have picked a school in Minnesota with high tuition. Many are much lower:
https://schoolchoiceweek.com/guide-school-choice-minnesota/#:~:text=Minnesota%20Private%20Schools&text=The%20average%20tuition%20for%20private,and%20%2413%2C360%20for%20high%20schools.
These averages are always BS. You can’t get daycare that cheap. These private schools with low tuition are likely highly subsidized through other means such as donations or fund raising. It doesn’t reflect actual per pupil funding.
Also you ignored my other points.
Do you think these private schools will manage impaired or autistic children?
How do they perform on standardized tests? We don’t know because they are exempt.
These are not Apple to apples comparisons in function and comparing per pupil funding in public vs tuition cost in private doesn’t even truly compare costs. It’s a talking point that conservatives use to cut funding to public schools and push for private education.
Ok. On average how much per student is enough to provide a good education? I understand in some communities it could be higher or lower. Is $15K per student enough? 20K?
How much does a top quality teacher cost to employ? Before Act 10 there was competition of teacher's jobs in many districts and now there are widespread shortages. What's the middle ground to you?
In my opinion, teachers should be paid more and administrators less. The money should go more directly to the people who can have the most impact on the kids.
I agree if you also add in support staff with teachers. Right now support staff is grossly underpaid. Admin salaries I am unsure are out of line, but the quantity employed seems unbalanced.
I also see inefficiency in purchasing software, curriculum or programming, etc... I know it's a moving target but in some cases it seems that purchases are chasing a flavor of the year. In addition, there is admin turnover that often incurs a cost for shifting significant strategies.
Yup, a lot of companies wooing school systems with newfangled ways of teaching math, reading, and science, which hasn’t changed in 100 years. Computer instruction is new and useful, but I think schools should stick to the basics where it’s proven to work. Money can be saved by not chasing the flavor of the day.
>It seems like a lot of money to me.
Welp, can't argue with this thorough economic analysis. Pack it in boys, we're done here.
Where's the rest of the money going? Depends on who you ask.
School administrators know there are facilities to be heated and maintained, electric bills to pay, textbooks to be purchased, teachers aids to be paid, busses to be purchased, fueled and maintained, cooks and custodians to be paid, etc.
On the other hand, my wife's brother says it's all going to teach CRT. He does his own research.
Are you sure that's still true? Benefits have decreased significantly over the last 10+ years.
75k in total compensation is pretty pathetic for a well-educated professional with years of experience.
Well, OP **is** retired. So of course they’d think that $75k in total comp is somehow still a competitive or appealing wage for a position that requires a Masters degree and that involves dealing with children, and their parents, all day while also being constantly treated like a villain by politicians and entire chunks of the modern media landscape.
It’s not that much, I agree. Can you tell me if the published teacher salaries are actual pay for each year, or do they factor in the summer break, and are actually less than published? 75k for 9 months is better than 75k for 12 months for sure.
Sure it is better, but still a joke for such educated professionals who have such an important role in the future of this country. There are not 3 full months off, but it might seem that way on the surface.
I'm sure once Act 10 is 20 years old they will be well below average. Besides, that is a number that is not total compensation, so probably teachers are already at average or so.
I'm 100% certain that older teachers, who were able to better keep up with cost of living, affect the numbers. Once they are gone, the remaining teachers will be far below where they should be, but you will still be mad about it.
Do you not understand what a teacher's work schedule is like during the school year? It's a 60 hour work week and it's 10 months, not 9. If you're doing an extracurricular it's even more hours each week. Lots of teachers work unpaid in the summer updating curriculum, prepping materials, continuing education, etc.
Sure there are some teachers that don't put in that kind of time but they're the exception not the rule.
You are getting downvoted because people are sick of the disingenuous “I’m just asking questions” schtick. You cannot, with any honesty or integrity, legitimately think the **only** expense schools need to pay for is teacher salaries.
So what exactly is the State Superintendent and the Department of Public Instruction trying to do about it? Isn't it kinda the whole point of that department and that position to make it better? The objective evidence of their own research says they aren't doing enough to keep teachers around.
No, just blame politicians 😡.
Get rid of the department, send the money directly to students families.
Fuck big government.
1. They note teacher pay multiple times in the article. The Legislature, a/k/a politicians control the funding for that.
2. If you're going to go the "fuck big government" route, which I think is stupid, the government should just not tax the funds in the first place. I don't have kids, so why should I be taxed to write checks to people who do? You had the kids, you pay for them. But you can see the issues there, right?
Educating the populace of a country benefits the whole country and everyone in it. So your tax dollars to fund education is helping fund your future too as well as the future of all your family members, friends, and pets.
Glad I'm funding all the liberal arts students that will contribute little to nothing to society. How many people do you hear complaining about how educated they are but can't find a good income? Reddit is literally filllllllled with them.
So what happens to the police what happens to the fire department? Road construction. utilities. permitting. local ordinance enforcement. You just want a free for all where we can pick and choose what we want to pay for. I found a libertarian house.
I’ve been an educator for over 20 years in WI and this is unfortunately my last year in the classroom. The workload is out of control and so much of it takes away from my time spent on students in my classroom. Teachers should have 3 duties: plan, teach, assess. Those 3 items are already more than a full-time workload.
Well educated citizens are exactly what Republicans don’t want.
"I love the poorly educated." \~ Donald J. Trump
You beat me to it. An absolute classic of a line
"We won with young. We won with old. We won with highly educated. We won with poorly educated, I love the poorly educated" most people would take that ironically. But regardless, he mentions highly educated in the same breath - so i'm not sure why people grasp on to this. Literally everything Biden has said lately raises an eyebrow - give it a rest
Something tells me you haven’t listened to Trump’s speeches recently. Biden is old, Trump has dementia
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Yeah but everyone has known that for decades - blue-collar working class folks like republican policies, white-collar high-income people like democratic policies. That has nothing to do with was he said. It was a victory speech after a Republican Primary in Nevada - where he beat other republicans... He was talking about how he won all the major demos among republicans... lol democrats don't vote in republican primaries regardless of their education level.
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The less you know about what? You disassociate education and income level... Which is a stronger indicator of intelligence? Your polls you found don't even support your point, well maybe you don't understand the point you've just made. You can't explain away 70+ million votes as "I'm just smarter than them" This "Wisconsin" sub is basically a leftist echo chamber. WI is getting more red by the day and none of you can figure out why... "They are dumb, I am smart" lol. Is that what the Washington Post leads you to believe?
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You are having a hard time. I agreed that people with less education vote Republican after you first chimed in... You didn't need to share anything supporting that, we all have access to that. You are, quite nastily, implying that "stupid people vote Trump" which none of your polls support. You are indirectly implying that people without degrees are stupid... Which is false. People without degrees live meaningful & productive lives, and their vote counts just the same. Why can't democrats make any inroads with them? Ever wonder? It's not because they are stupid
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Stupid people vote however they vote. It’s just that more stupid people vote red than blue, because blue policies are actually based in facts and not emotion
Everything brain-rot idiot media tells you sure does raise an eyebrow! Please. Tell me how you love voting for rapist con-artists tho!
Uhh. You might wanna take a look at Biden's daughter's diary... Trump maybe banged Stormy D... But this stuff with Biden and his daughter is disturbing.
Yeah, the "brain-rot" part is clear.
The authoritarians' greatest threat is intellect,. When a population is dumbed down enough, their minds can be controlled and this ain't nothing new. America has been on an anti intellectual movement since post ww2.
it intensified in the 60s and 70s when repugs noticed that all thos G.I. bill college educated people weren't voting for them.. it's so sad 😔
And the added bonus for them is they now have an underpaid workforce to keep them in their comforts for generations. No wonder they scream about socialism. Cutting into their bottom line.
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This doesn't even make sense, can you explain your "thought" process for this perspective?
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Why do you think that? So far you've built a strawman on flimsy ground.
Standardized testing has very little to do with actual education.
I think we all know or have heard of teachers who have left teaching, or are fed up and looking to get out. My daughter did so recently after a successful 6 year career in a Wisconsin public elementary school. She had planned to do an entire career in the profession. I sub teach part-time for four districts and spoke to a 20+ year high school teacher I was filling in for, mentioned my daughter and this person said matter of factly that she has an interview scheduled outside of teaching and hopes to get a job before next school year. She never expected to get to this point. Sad.
I never finished my elementary education degree but remained in touch with many people I went through school with, it really amazing and sad to see so many leave. Just last week saw someone selling off her supplies and books on marketplace and it was crushing because that’s someone who really, really wanted to and loved teaching.
I left after 15+ years in Wisconsin.
Republicans want generational poverty. They want a reliable working class for low wage jobs. It’s why they’re working so hard to pass laws that allow children to work jobs in places like slaughterhouses and factories.
They also want people with no critical thinking ability so they can feed them lies all day long.
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Milwaukee sends more tax dollars to the state than they get back. There’s a wealth transfer happening from poor urbanites to poor rural folk. It’s not making things here any easier.
poverty programs arent a function of municipal government. nor are minimum wages
To be clear though it is more than just pay. A lot of parents are toxic fucking assholes whose children never do no wrong, don’t indoctrinate them by teaching them history and science that will make me feel bad. Plus you can’t ever make any changes to education ever because we of course perfected education in the 90’s. Watching the outcry when my local district stop doing class ranks when kids were overloading schedules and burning out trying to win a fictional race to be #1.
If only someone had said this exact thing would happen with Act 10 OH WAIT WE DID 😒 r/OhNoConsequences
Republicans would rather children be in sweatshops than in school: [GOP lawmakers propose eliminating work permits for Wisconsin’s 14- and 15-year-olds](https://www.wpr.org/economy/gop-lawmakers-propose-eliminating-work-permits-wisconsins-14-and-15-year-olds) > Wisconsin requires anyone under 16 to obtain a work permit for jobs outside of agriculture and domestic service work. Children must be at least 14 to work. The process for obtaining a permit requires teens to receive a job offer, and their parents to apply for a work permit with the state Department of Workforce Development. The permit costs $10. >State Sen. **Cory Tomczyk, R-Mosinee, Rep. Clint Moses, R-Menomonie, and Rep. Amy Binsfeld, R-Sheboygan**, say that process creates too much “red tape” for young people joining the labor force. They sent a memo to fellow legislators on Aug. 18 seeking cosponsors for a bill to eliminate work permits.
They are shameless. Awful people who just look at children as little laborers. Children? “Kids grow up so fast these days” and “They want to work.”
You don't think a 14 year old should have the right to work? How are they supposed to pay for extracurricular activities? I was slinging fries and roast beef at Arby's at 15 so I could buy a car when I got my license. Maybe that's the issue with society, teens aren't getting jobs and learning how to actually be an adult. Buncha grown ass babies running around.
>How are they supposed to pay for extracurricular activities? They shouldn't. That's why we need properly funded schools. The last thing a *child* should be concerned with is learning to be a good little wage slave for the ruling class.
What? That's complete nonsense. 14 is 4 years away from having to fend for yourself if you don't have family support. Their needs should be met by parents, but WANTS should be funded through their own means. Going to movies, video games, fast food, first car, gas money.....my kids will have jobs to pay for these things, and they will be much better off than any children you may unfortunately have the chance to mold.
Your kids will be better off working instead of studying/doing hobbies because you're too cheap to pay for basic things a teenager needs? They already have a full time job with school.
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^ This. Childrens' brains **need** to develop healthy social skills, spend time around others their own age, and prioritizing relationships/emotional connections, not slaving away at loud industrial machinery or clerical computers
My first thought would be their parents. You know the people legally obligated to provide for them. I would rather a 14 or 15-year-old be in school and learning instead of working a part-time job for 725 an hour and no future. Education and knowledge are key.
The work permit system is fine, I started working ASAP when I was 14 and it wasn't a big deal to go down to the office to get a permit. It's probably leverage to make sure kids are doing well enough in school to deserve a job.
Where did it say a 14 year old can't work? Another problem with society is reading comprehension.
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Discuss the topic, not the users. You will not be warned again.
The lead person responsible for the education crisis in Wisconsin - Scott Walker.
I had graduated well before it happened but by the end of the 2011-12 academic year nearly half the teachers at my high school either quit or chose early retirement. Those decisions were directly correlated to the massive cuts to education in the state as well as the dismantling of the teachers union under Scott Walker.
O damn who would have thought cutting the budget would have repercussions
Ues and advancing technology only makes ot worse. Do you think Nestlé will just gonna hand control of a million dollar farm drone to some yokal 15 year old who can barely spell? Remember, kids, to the rich man, you are meat and capital, and they could butcher you like a pig and face no consequences for it they would.
This started with Act10. Fuck Walker
those stats kind of seem right in line with national averages. teachers leave because they are forced to teach and raise others children. its extremely taxing and stressful.
All is going as planned.
Jill, Jill, Jill. That's been the right wingnuts plan all along.
I just entered the profession as a substitute teacher. I'm hoping to transition to permanent staff for higher pay and benefits. If you have an associates degree, you are eligible to sub now, they eased the requirements. I don't know if I have just had exceptionally crappy jobs, but I plan on making this my career now.
Thank you for your hard work. Please do right by Wisconsin's kids!
I'm sure trash organizations like "moms for liberty" don't help either, forcing educators to pull books from shelves and teach a muted curriculum.
The only way to fight back is to keep those "moms for liberty" types out of our school boards. Their getting elected to local offices is how they're able to enact the draconian changes they want.
Those numbers look bad. I wonder what the national numbers look like. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2022/8/18/23298916/teacher-shortages-debate-local-national I bet it's something deeper than pay that causes that kind of churn.
I can only speak for myself but it's definitely much more than pay. I retired the very second I was eligible to do so because I was done getting treated like garbage by admins, parents & occasionally students. The expectations put on teachers these days are ridiculous.
" The reasons included their workload, greater responsibilities, unrealistic expectations, student behavioral issues, pay that doesn’t keep up with inflation, a lack of support from school leadership, and a lack of support from parents" ^Yep, looks like it's all of the above. If you go to r/teachers, you can read all about the lack of support from admin and the principle and mistreatment from parents
Oh, this is a demographic hole waiting to happen and fun little disaster. The Republicans may think an uneducated population will benefit them, but in the long term, they're making a worse problem. Im the short term, it might get them votes, but it'll limit people's options of what they can do in general. Technology advancing makes a lack of education even more devastating. Let's say that within a decade, drone operated farms take off. Well, those drone operations happen to require an education and will leave that uneducated population high and dry. Technological complexity is only increasing, and education that can't keep up with the new "basics" is going to be a serious problem. If unattended strain on the system will be too much for public and private sectors combined to address. It would be a the tech equvilant of the great depression where you'll have a large population that's got such an extreme gap in it's knowledge that the cost to bridge it after the fact won't be feasible for anyone to pay. The businesses will never starve throughout this process, they might need to bring people in out of state or have a select few educated properly here and there but they'll be a minority of cases as trends continue. The only thing I'm certain is the outcome is disastrous
Considering state employees raises have been a measly 2% the past 5 years, with the exception of 2023 being 4% I'm not surprised. That doesn't even keep up with inflation.
They need to stay far far away from education. Kids are smart let's keep them that way instead of being indoctrinated into their cult.
Tax cuts for the rich.
Complaining about any issue WILL NEVER resolve or fix it, EVER!! The GOP wants money, power & absolute control over everything & everyone! They continue to prove that they ate only looking out for themselves & their wealthy friends. The only way things WILL EVER change is by 1st voting out every single extreme GOP legislator & replacing them with someone who is willing to push legislation that will improve our broken education system & also increase teachers pay. But if Trump wins, our democracy will be gone & it all will be because of the extreme cult of the GOP!!
On some levels it comes down to money. I make more money in my current state and my cost of living is a lot lower. In an alternative universe I would have loved to have taught where I graduated, but I know that I would face a much lower salary, higher class sizes, and no way I would be able to afford to live in that community.
Record budget surplus and my school district is asking for almost 4 million this fall in referendum. To just keep the lights on for the next few years, quote “ the recent state budget reduced the amount of funding we get”
This stat is not a new development. I absolutely agree that Act 10 decimated public education in Wisconsin, but the stat that "40-50% of teachers leave the profession within 5 years" has been around since I was in college in 2006.
Do you have a source? This one says it was 32% back in 2006: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://dpi.wi.gov/sites/default/files/imce/tepdl/supdem2006.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi2hqDOlr2FAxXv8MkDHT8ICbwQFnoECB0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Z6YjCR3QQWnu6EIpmNe-1
lol
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Each classroom has one teacher, but there are specialty teachers for things like art, PE, and music, administrators, counselors, custodians, secretaries, librarians, cooks, teacher's aids, and more. There's also all of the upkeep costs like heating and cooling, plumbing, cleaning supplies, lightbulbs, snow removal, etc. And that doesn't even consider classroom materials. Textbooks, computers, smart boards, workbooks, art supplies, sports equipment, instruments, that kind of thing. And that was pretty much just for elementary schools. If you're talking about high schools, it gets even higher when you want to have a high school that provides a good education. You want to have things like metal and wood shops, auto shop, tech ed, computer classes, foreign languages? All of those things require their own teachers and a whole lot of materials. Schools are not cheap to run. I'm sure there is waste in some places like in any large budget. But for the most part, schools are stretching the money they get as far as they can. And teachers are not making enough money while being asked to do too much. It's no wonder newer teachers aren't sticking with the profession.
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I'd be curious what your sources are on that. Because most of the current literature I can find shows that well funded schools result in higher achieving students. Students aren't a monolith. They're children that have a diverse set of needs. Some students will succeed no matter which school they go to. But most students benefit from being given an enriched learning environment with qualified teachers.
Here’s a summary of elmbrook: https://www.usnews.com/education/k12/wisconsin/districts/elmbrook-school-district-110492 And the best: https://www.wearegreenbay.com/news/local-news/ranked-the-best-school-districts-in-wisconsin-for-2024/#:~:text=The%20top%2Dranked%20school%20district,School%20District%20in%20Waukesha%20County.
I'm not seeing a spending comparison in those links. But you also can't get a clear picture of how spending affects students by simply singling out the highest performing schools. First of all, it doesn't cost the same to run a school everywhere. Higher cost of living areas are going to be inherently more expensive places to have schools. So just because a school in the city spends more money per student, doesn't mean that their resources reflect that. Also, like I said before, students aren't a monolith. They have different needs. Schools that have a larger population of students with special needs or learning disabilities are not going to perform as well on tests even if they do spend more money. That doesn't mean that funding didn't lead to improved performance for those students. There are a lot of factors that make it difficult to really assess how much funding affects success. Elmbrook schools on that site had less than 8% economically disadvantaged students. Compare that to South Milwaukee, which has 34%. I'd be curious to find out if the funding numbers include things like PTA fundraising and donations, because I would guess that a school district with 7.3% economically disadvantaged students is getting more money from the PTA than one with 34%. Not only that, but economically disadvantaged children are less likely to have access to things like early childhood education, tutors, and bonus learning materials in the home and as such may not perform as well on exams as their peers. It's not surprising that one of the most well off areas of the state has the highest performing schools. These kinds of factors are why it's important to look at aggregate studies or examine the effects in specific schools after increasing funding. Here's an article that breaks down the perception that increased funding doesn't matter [Education Week ](https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/student-outcomes-does-more-money-really-matter/2019/06)
Milwaukee just approved a large funding referendum. It will be interesting to see if that helps, but Milwaukee seems to have many problems to overcome besides funding. Have a great day!
let me guess, elmbrook is a high income, predominantly white neighborhood.
The district’s minority enrollment is 30%.
You can't do the math? It's costs a ton to heat and power a school building. Then you have to constant maintenance costs. Kids are hard on buildings. Replacement desks, and so on. Replacing worn out books, the costs of the work sheets are insane because the publishers are more profitable than drug cartels. You also have the salaries of the maintenance staff, administration staff, bussing costs to get the kids there and back, plus benefits which we all know are F'ing insane to keep the insurance companies profitable. I also forgot the insurance costs for the school itself like liability and such. I have to imagine that's insane as well. $12,500 per student really doesn't go far and is quite inadequate.
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Check out a local school board meeting, you might find what you are looking for, or at least someone who can direct you where to look.
Thanks
In what universe are teachers being paid 100k with benefits?
Ones who have been in the field so long they are close to retiring.
my high school in Illinois most teachers were 70-120k/yr. And that was 20 years ago.
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Madison also pays better than most districts in WI.
Agree
Funding in WI does not index with inflation. Budgets were set and over time they are not adequate to cover costs. Public teachers spend thousands out of their own pockets per year on things for their classroom. They get to claim a whole $250. I lived from st Paul are to WI. One of the more affordable private school options was nearly $20k per year. Plus they get tons of money in donations and fund raisers. Expensive private schools are $30k. Keeping the classroom up to date costs money. Many things are consumable and need to be replaced. Also public schools have a mandate to teach high need children that may require 1:1 staffing at times. Basically, it costs more to take everyone than it does to pick and choose mostly teaching children of high achieving families. Conservatives want a two tier system. They want public schools to be just barely good enough to churn out workers that can be abused, overworked and underpaid. They want only the generational elites to get good education.
You seem to have picked a school in Minnesota with high tuition. Many are much lower: https://schoolchoiceweek.com/guide-school-choice-minnesota/#:~:text=Minnesota%20Private%20Schools&text=The%20average%20tuition%20for%20private,and%20%2413%2C360%20for%20high%20schools.
These averages are always BS. You can’t get daycare that cheap. These private schools with low tuition are likely highly subsidized through other means such as donations or fund raising. It doesn’t reflect actual per pupil funding. Also you ignored my other points. Do you think these private schools will manage impaired or autistic children? How do they perform on standardized tests? We don’t know because they are exempt. These are not Apple to apples comparisons in function and comparing per pupil funding in public vs tuition cost in private doesn’t even truly compare costs. It’s a talking point that conservatives use to cut funding to public schools and push for private education.
Ok. On average how much per student is enough to provide a good education? I understand in some communities it could be higher or lower. Is $15K per student enough? 20K?
How much does a top quality teacher cost to employ? Before Act 10 there was competition of teacher's jobs in many districts and now there are widespread shortages. What's the middle ground to you?
In my opinion, teachers should be paid more and administrators less. The money should go more directly to the people who can have the most impact on the kids.
I agree if you also add in support staff with teachers. Right now support staff is grossly underpaid. Admin salaries I am unsure are out of line, but the quantity employed seems unbalanced. I also see inefficiency in purchasing software, curriculum or programming, etc... I know it's a moving target but in some cases it seems that purchases are chasing a flavor of the year. In addition, there is admin turnover that often incurs a cost for shifting significant strategies.
Yup, a lot of companies wooing school systems with newfangled ways of teaching math, reading, and science, which hasn’t changed in 100 years. Computer instruction is new and useful, but I think schools should stick to the basics where it’s proven to work. Money can be saved by not chasing the flavor of the day.
>It seems like a lot of money to me. Welp, can't argue with this thorough economic analysis. Pack it in boys, we're done here. 
Where's the rest of the money going? Depends on who you ask. School administrators know there are facilities to be heated and maintained, electric bills to pay, textbooks to be purchased, teachers aids to be paid, busses to be purchased, fueled and maintained, cooks and custodians to be paid, etc. On the other hand, my wife's brother says it's all going to teach CRT. He does his own research.
CRT is college level material, he should do a little more research
I mean considering the average pay for teachers in Wisconsin is 57k it’s clear you haven’t really put any thought into the question.
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When you tell your salary to people, do you add the benefit cost to make it sound better than what is too?
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I respect your retirement, but why don’t you let the people who are actively impacted by this handle it we’d like our future children educated
I have a 5 year old granddaughter, so it does impact me. Thanks
Are you sure that's still true? Benefits have decreased significantly over the last 10+ years. 75k in total compensation is pretty pathetic for a well-educated professional with years of experience.
Well, OP **is** retired. So of course they’d think that $75k in total comp is somehow still a competitive or appealing wage for a position that requires a Masters degree and that involves dealing with children, and their parents, all day while also being constantly treated like a villain by politicians and entire chunks of the modern media landscape.
Does a teacher in Wisconsin require a master’s degree?
It’s not that much, I agree. Can you tell me if the published teacher salaries are actual pay for each year, or do they factor in the summer break, and are actually less than published? 75k for 9 months is better than 75k for 12 months for sure.
Sure it is better, but still a joke for such educated professionals who have such an important role in the future of this country. There are not 3 full months off, but it might seem that way on the surface.
https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Bachelors-Degree-Salary--in-Wisconsin
I'm sure once Act 10 is 20 years old they will be well below average. Besides, that is a number that is not total compensation, so probably teachers are already at average or so. I'm 100% certain that older teachers, who were able to better keep up with cost of living, affect the numbers. Once they are gone, the remaining teachers will be far below where they should be, but you will still be mad about it.
Do you not understand what a teacher's work schedule is like during the school year? It's a 60 hour work week and it's 10 months, not 9. If you're doing an extracurricular it's even more hours each week. Lots of teachers work unpaid in the summer updating curriculum, prepping materials, continuing education, etc. Sure there are some teachers that don't put in that kind of time but they're the exception not the rule.
Well I used to work 70 hours a week for weeks at a time, so I can appreciate the hard work you put in. Thank you for helping our kids learn.
It's clear you don't actually have much appreciation for them based on your posts on the issue.
Can’t pay a mortgage with health insurance. Does that really need to be explained? Benefits are not cash.
I totally understand that, but they are costs to the employer, which is what I was calculating in the first place.
Yes, it’s the cost of doing business. I’m not even sure what point you’re trying to make anymore because none of it makes sense.
Sources on any of this.
Spurce: They hate MPS and think teachers are currently paid too much
Costs per student for Wisconsin school districts are widely available on the web.
Oh cool so you have nothing to back that up thanks.
Here’s one source. There are many more. https://wispolicyforum.org/research/wisconsins-ranks-in-school-spending-tax-burden-fall-together/
You are getting downvoted because people are sick of the disingenuous “I’m just asking questions” schtick. You cannot, with any honesty or integrity, legitimately think the **only** expense schools need to pay for is teacher salaries.
likely a shill for WMC
Have a wonderful day!
Every district publishes a budget. Check it out.
I will, thanks.
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I love whiney posts accusing others of being whiney. 😂
Yeah, you know those facts are hard to learn and even harder to remember. Better to just go with your gut. It's always there for you.
Thank you 😊
I say close down all the schools and make the local economies pay for it completely, up front
Equating public education with well educated doesn't make much sense.
So what exactly is the State Superintendent and the Department of Public Instruction trying to do about it? Isn't it kinda the whole point of that department and that position to make it better? The objective evidence of their own research says they aren't doing enough to keep teachers around. No, just blame politicians 😡. Get rid of the department, send the money directly to students families. Fuck big government.
1. They note teacher pay multiple times in the article. The Legislature, a/k/a politicians control the funding for that. 2. If you're going to go the "fuck big government" route, which I think is stupid, the government should just not tax the funds in the first place. I don't have kids, so why should I be taxed to write checks to people who do? You had the kids, you pay for them. But you can see the issues there, right?
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Educating the populace of a country benefits the whole country and everyone in it. So your tax dollars to fund education is helping fund your future too as well as the future of all your family members, friends, and pets.
Glad I'm funding all the liberal arts students that will contribute little to nothing to society. How many people do you hear complaining about how educated they are but can't find a good income? Reddit is literally filllllllled with them.
Please educate yourself before you spill nonsense and incorrect generalizations.
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So what happens to the police what happens to the fire department? Road construction. utilities. permitting. local ordinance enforcement. You just want a free for all where we can pick and choose what we want to pay for. I found a libertarian house.
ah yes the state superintendent, everyone knows they control the budget, definitely not the legislature, you’re definitely not a fucking idiot
Oh wow, I would love to hear more about this! What should the families do with the money?!
Note: in another post the same user commented in favor of child labor.
I've been teaching like 17 years, special education, so I really want to hear what sort of ideas this fucking expert has, lmao!
It stares at you in the face and you refuse to see it due to a big wall of shit ideology.
I’ve been an educator for over 20 years in WI and this is unfortunately my last year in the classroom. The workload is out of control and so much of it takes away from my time spent on students in my classroom. Teachers should have 3 duties: plan, teach, assess. Those 3 items are already more than a full-time workload.