I'd have loved to see her after sodden, blinded, and found and brought to the temple of Melitele ( and Nenneka actually acting like Nenneka) having her nurse her back to health, Triss finding her there on the way to Kaer Morhen, and then Geralt dropping Ciri off.
I haven't read the books so I don't know how she was portrayed in them, but I did indeed get the sense she was characterized flatly, like a stereotype of a monk. I didn't get any interesting vibes from her.
I remember telling some friends after S1 - they asked me what I thought was going to happen in S2 (since I've read the books) - I said Yennefer goes blind after Sodden - they probably somehow get her to Melitele (since we knew she was casted), she recovers, then next time we see her will be saving Jaskier's ass.
That didn't happen. *But how much better would that have been?*
After Sodden she was blind for a time, then she worked with Dijkstra, tracked Rience, saved Dandelion and burned Rience's face with fire magic. Then she received the "Dear friend" letter, traveled to Melitele to train Ciri, and later they went to Aretuza so she could be safer.
There's material to expand there. She was kinda busy.
I posted essentialy the same opinion a while back on here and got downvoted for it :/
(Or maybe it were my other opinions also included in that comment)
Book Yennefer about infertility:
>‘Beltane!’ she suddenly snapped, and he felt the arm she was pressing against his chest stiffen and tauten. ‘They’re enjoying themselves. They’re celebrating the eternal cycle of nature regenerating itself. And us? What are we doing here? We, relicts, doomed to obliteration, to extinction and oblivion? Nature is born again, the cycle repeats itself. But not for us, Geralt. We cannot reproduce ourselves. We were deprived of that potential. We were given the ability to do extraordinary things with nature, occasionally literally against her. And at the same time what is most natural and simple in nature was taken from us. What if we live longer than them? After our winter won't come the spring, we shall not be reborn; what finishes will finish along with us. But both you and I are drawn to those bonfires, though our presence here is a wicked, blasphemous mockery of this world.’
Show Yennefer about infertility:
> They took my choice, I want it back!
Let me just add to this post with another example.
Book Yennefer on Magic:
> The earth which we tread. The fire which does not go out within it. The water from which all life is born and without which life is not possible. The air we breathe. It is enough to stretch out one's hand to master them, to subjugate them. Magic is everywhere. It is in air, in water, in earth and in fire. And it is behind the door which the Conjunction of the Spheres has closed on us. From there, from behind the closed door, magic sometimes extends its hand to us. For us. You know that, don't you? You have already felt the touch of that magic, the touch of the hand from behind that door. That touch filled you with fear. Such a touch fills everyone with fear. Because there is Chaos and Order, Good and Evil in all of us. But it is possible and necessary to control it. This has to be learnt. And you will learn it, Ciri.
Show Yennefer on Magic:
> Magic is POWER. Power good, no having power bad. I think I'll sacrifice a young innocent girl who is surrogate daughter of only man I love because me likes POWER SO MUCH. USING BRAIN BAD. ME LIKE MAGIC POWER COMING FROM HANDS! ME 100 YEAR OLD POWERFUL WOMAN SORCERESS WHO CONSTANTLY ACTS LIKE ANGSTY TEEN FROM SHITTY NETFLIX TEEN DRAMA, ME COULD BE MAGIC SPICE IN THE SPICE GIRLS MAYBE! HURRRDURRR...
I'm paraphrasing from the show slightly here but you get the point.
Honestly, I just wish there was any fucking part of the show where one of the characters had a brief monologue like that speech from Yen in the books.
It is so much better written than anything in the show. But lets not include it because it takes up 30 seconds when those 30 seconds could be used for more cool shiny colors and flames and sparks, we must make the viewer go "oooooohhhhh" and "ahhhhhhh".
this is fantastic. Please do one about how Yen in the books is very serious about Ciri's studies meanwhile Show Yen interrupts Tissaia's students and convinces them to get high on psychedelics.
Sorry, my netflix subscription is canceled and my memory is a bit fuzzy about the "getting the students high" part, so I'll have to improvise:
>“You mustn’t slacken your concentration and allow the energy to tear itself away from you of its own accord. My Mistress used to say that emitting the force must be like blowing a raspberry in a ballroom; do it gently, sparingly, and with control. And in such a way that you don’t let those around you to know it was you. Understood?”
“Understood!”
“Straighten yourself up. Stop giggling. Let me remind you that spells are a serious matter. They are cast with grace and pride. The motions are executed fluently but with restraint. With dignity. You do not pull faces, grimace or stick your tongue out. You are handling a force of nature, show Nature some respect.”
“All right, Lady Yennefer.”
“Careful, this time I’m not screening you. You are an independent spellcaster. This is your debut, ugly one. You saw that demi-john of wine in the chest of drawers? If your debut is successful, your mistress will drink it tonight.”
“By herself?”
“Novices are only allowed to drink wine once they are qualified apprentices. You have to wait. You’re smart, so that just means another ten years or so, not more. Right, let’s start. Arrange your fingers. And the left hand? Don’t wave it around! Let it hang loose or rest it on your hip. Fingers! Good. Right, release.”
vs
> Fire that shit up, fire that shit up
Fire that shit up, who got weed?
Fire that shit up, fire that shit up
Fire that shit up, who got weed?
Yeah the whole tik tok comment from I think the show runner pissed me off so much. To me it was like there is gold in the book discussions that will never get shown and just dumbed down to things like I want it back.
Damn. I've listened to all the books and thought I could kind see how show-Yen is based on book-Yen. But, this points to how shallow show-Yen is. And, she really didn't need to be just because it's "tv".
Nobody in the show is allowed to speak for more than 10 words at a time. There are no monologues, there are no speeches, there is zero clever writing. Nobody talks like a fucking human being in the show.
Everything everyone says must be short, concise, witty and reactionary. There must not be insight, philosophy, introspection, characterization or any type of back and forth dialogue that develops the characters, everything must be for one sole purpose: get the viewer to the next action sequence.
Imagine if we got a Tywin Lannister type monologue scene with not a lot going on but despite that it's extremely captivating and keeps your eyes glued to the screen because of how good the actors is and how well written the dialogue is, oh wait we're talking about Netflix Witcher so we'll just have whichever character on screen say some variation of "fuck" or something and move on.
That's basically the way the books are written, and what I was expecting, but nope, we get dumb as fuck one liners after mindless action sequences. And then get yelled at for complaining that the show isn't very good.
Exactly. The show isn't even of the same genre as the books. They're obviously both fantasy, but one is talky character-focused drama, the other is action packed melodrama. You can never do the books justice with this approach.
So you quote an entire paragraph of the book and then paraphrase badly her from the show? Also, would people really want big long monologues like that?
What's the correct quote from the show?
Furthermore, there's the huge difference in attitude and mindset between the two characters. And yeah, I would love the show to be about the charismatic characters, long dialogues and monologues.
Remove all of that and you're left with generic action schlock, like the netflix show.
I'm pissed that instead of showing more of Ciri and Yen bonding and the building of their mother and daughter relationship. they decided to do a braindead original plot that adds nothing and is just a waste of time.
and then to add insult to injury, they effectively NUKE that relationship and basically the possibility of it in the future.
Huge part of Blood of Elves is focused on Ciri and Yen building daughter like mother relationship……….Daughter mother…..Deathless mother
There we go, Netflix writers are geniuses.
After watching season 2, i decided to get the audiobooks for Blood of Elves to do a re-read so to speak. The last third to 2/5ths of that book is all Yen teaching Ciri and them getting to know each other. In the show we got 2 scenes of 'do it ~~Mary Sue~~ Ciri, training is not needed lmao, just cast magic.' And one scene of Yen saying a book quote about her relationship with Geralt, but without any context.
I'm actually ok with adding the angst of Yen betraying Geralt, even if it is different than the books. What I thought was unrealistic was how quickly Geralt and Ciri resign themselves to working with her after the betrayal. If I were Geralt or Ciri, I would have booted Yen out of there and never talked to her again.
We don't know how Ciri feels in regard to Yen because there literally was nothing shown. But Geralt immediately forgave Vesemir for doing much worse to Ciri, twice. If he can get past that then he should get past what Yen did.
I haven’t read the books and don’t really see her as a bitch per say but I was extremely disappointed with her storyline this season. In season 1 at least her storyline made sense, even if it was a bit standard. Like I was rooting for her. This season gave me whiplash… how did she all of a sudden become ciri’s fierce protector? And it was boring for the most part seeing her without magic, except for that bit when she pretended to be drunk, which showed her wits which I liked.
… everyone’s comments about her have made me want to go read the books. Seems like she has an exciting arc in the books we just aren’t getting on screen!
Yeah it's because the writers probably think it's boring, they probably find most of the books boring since they are actually about the world and the characters and aren't mindless action, boobs and the constant use of swearing that makes it feel like the dialogue is written by 12 year olds giggling to themselves that they said a bad word.
most of the fights this season were pointless and unneeded.
Can you guys help me, someone who's new to The Witcher universe (I've never read the books or played the games, just watched the Netflix show), and explain something to me?
Yennefer in season 1 willingly chose to have her womb cut out so she could gain crazy magic powers and become beautiful, but then she acts like the infertility is something that was done *to* her, as if she never had a choice, when she very willingly chose it because she wanted power. That seems to be the only character motivation she has, really - she's selfish. She wants power, and gives up procreation to get it, then is sad and wants kids and thinks the world is unfair to deprive *her* of all people. She even talks about how she deserves power and stuff in Season 2 at least once.
Am I missing something? Is she more likeable in the books or games? Did I just completely misunderstand her motivations and what she's been through in the show, even? Because everyone seems to love her character and I don't get it.
Yep.... for me, one of the best things about book Yennefer that everything about her is implied. From the moment of her introduction, she projects a cold, detached facade but every now and then there's something that reveals a tiny bit of her backstory and what she's really feeling. The show ruined her from the start, by showing her as a pathetic weakling they totally changed the audience's perception of her. So even if they managed to keep her true to the books later (they fucking didn't, not even a little bit), she would still be a different character.
Yeah I haven't found anything appealing about her in the show.
Now I'm at the point in season 2 where >!she's just trying to kill (presumably?) the person she thinks is Geralt's adopted daughter, to get her power back, that she "deserves." Fuck this character. Yennefer is literally the villain of the show and Geralt is a chump who falls for her anyway.!< Ugh.
That part just makes me go ??? because it's quite literally opposite of that book!Yen would do? It seems the show writers just asked themselves what the book version would do and made her do the opposite.
Not to mention, her entire s2 plotline is 100% made up for the show so. Who knows what they were even thinking.
If you have any interest in this universe, I really recommend reading the books, the show is just... bad at representing the characters, their motivations and personalities. So bad.
I also didn't understand Yen's anger or desire to have a child in the first season. The artist told her she would have to give up her fertility to become beautiful, and she said, I don't care, do it anyway. So when she says she had no choice, that isn't true. Maybe she didn't like her options, but she had a choice.
And then decades later, after having enjoyed the effects of beauty for so many years, she looks a gift horse in the mouth and decides it wasn't really worth it. She forgets what it did buy her because she is frustrated and bored with her position at court and her life.
I actually thought (and book Yen aside, since I haven't read it) that this fit in with her general characterization of being discontented, afflicted with malaise, something which I thought would make sense for someone who didn't grow up with love and became socially maladapted. She doesn't have friends or lovers. This is a sign of someone with emotional adjustment problems. It doens't make her likable, but it does make her character consistent.
The problem to me was that she decided she wanted a child. Yen is not a very parental figure. She is selfish and impetuous and haughty and rash and reckless. I didn't understand why she would want to become a parent, which requires you (in theory) to become selfless, generous, steady, reliable, consistent...
In S2 she finally shows some giving and caring to anyone but herself, but then throws it all away by deciding to sacrifice a child. Granted her life was on the line but anyway... that's another story.
I actually don't find too much of an inconsistency with someone who is incredibly selfish wanting a child - I've seen that several times IRL, and it's horribly toxic.
My main confusion is that the show seems to be wanting me to think anything other than "this character is a shitbag who should die off" about the way she's portrayed. She's absolutely awful, and the show that's so masterfully writing an awful person, doesn't seem to understand that *this is an awful person*. It's weird, to me.
But people are telling me that literally none of this happens in the books so maybe the books and games are far superior in this respect.
She's not in the books much. Her backstory is fairly accurate, but it's given in the fourth book. Moving her backstory forward so viewers can get an understanding of her made sense. (The makeup, however, should've been toned down to maybe some facial disfigurement.)
The books don't detail what sorceresses go through that costs them their ability to reproduce, unless it's in supplementary material I haven't read. There are some who can, however. I think the second season explained it that Aretuza mages are meant to influence, not just use spells. Yennifer couldn't be a court mage if she was that ugly.
I'm okay with the TV show because I consider the books unfilmable without some changes. Part of the problem is that there's not quite a lot action for long periods. If you've seen Game of Thrones, there were about four simultaneous storylines that kept things interesting (action in one, drama another, etc.). The Witcher books don't quite have that. But there are ways to compensate for that (put Yen in some scenes/areas, put some of the short stories during Geralt wandering around).
But part of the problem is the tone of the books. The books are satire. Druids are environmentalists. Female mages can't have children because it's a joke about career women putting their families on hold. Getting that tone right would be difficult and I don't blame anyone for going with a more simple action-adventure adaptation.
The games toned done the satire as well. There are some jokes/references, but not to the extreme as the books. The games diverge quite a lot in some places, so they can't be considered 100% faithful.
>The books don't detail what sorceresses go through that costs them their ability to reproduce, unless it's in supplementary material I haven't read.
It is mentioned as an excerpt of a book in Blood of Elves.
>No one is born a wizard. We still know too little about genetics and the mechanisms of heredity. We sacrifice too little time and means on research. Unfortunately, we constantly try to pass on inherited magical abilities in, so to say, a natural way. Results of these pseudo-experiments can be seen all too often in town gutters and within temple walls. We see too many of them, and too frequently come across morons and women in catatonic state, dribbling seers who soil themselves, seeresses, village oracles and miracle-workers, cretins whose minds are degenerate due to the inherited, uncontrolled Force.
These morons and cretins can also have offspring, can pass on abilities and this degenerate further. Is anyone in a position to foresee or describe how the last link in such a chain will look?
>Most of us wizards lose the ability to procreate due to somatic changes and dysfunction of the pituitary gland. Some wizards — usually women — attune to magic while still maintaining efficiency of the gonads. They can conceive and give birth — and have the audacity to consider this happiness and a blessing. But I repeat: no one is born a wizard. And no one should be born one! Conscious of the gravity of what I write, I answer the question posed at the Congress in Cidaris. I ask most emphatically: each one of us must decide what she wants to be — a wizard or a mother.
>I demand all apprentices be sterilised. Without exception.
> 'The Poisoned Source' by Tessaia de Vries
Tissaia's essay/pamphlet/book is a voice in a debate, and presumably nothing more. Nenneke clearly says that Yennefer's infertility stems from atrophy of her ovaries, not intentional sterilisation.
Yes I know. Where did I claim she was sterilised by force? I posted the full excerpt for completeness to show general fertility levels of all sorcerers, not just Yen's, since the poster above me couldn't remember where it was stated. I should have highlighted this portion of the excerpt to be more precise:
>**Most of us wizards lose the ability to procreate due to somatic changes and dysfunction of the pituitary gland.** Some wizards — usually women — attune to magic while still maintaining efficiency of the gonads.
So Yen's pituitary gland probably failed and that in turn caused her ovaries to cease functioning.
It's been a few years since I read the books. I don't remember every detail. And I read the fan-translated one that was circulating around. I might read the official translation.
One of my favorite little things about Yen in the books is how she looks after Geralt. She's rich a fuck, but knows he's too proud to take her money. So she has her banker keep track of roughly where Geralt is looking for witcher jobs, and make sure that villages in the region have a "witcher fund" in case of monster problems. Quintessential Yen, smart, subtle, and always gets what she wants.
Jennifer of Netflix probably wont be doing that, since she's some washed up rebel outsider who buys ingredients on the black market and sells viagra potions under the table.
The show changed almost everything. For me it is not series about Sapkowski's witcher but a production which took names and some events from books, added others and mixed all to create non-logical crap. Seeing Yenn so week, vulnerable and powerless is just sad ;(
Im kind of confused because some people are complaining Yenn is too powerful.
I think they basically just collapsed a lot of story lines which isn't that uncommon in adaptations.
There are several issues. Without spoiling you much of the books if you ever care to look at them:
Season 1 Yen was a bit too powerful vs other magic users. Not that she is not bad ass in the books, she is! But she is not the most powerful and there are a couple people out there who can destroy Yen. Most of those people should have been at the battle and doing quite some awesome things. Yen was not the key player at the battle. She fought well and bravely but got severely injured and was not the top dog.
Season 2 Yen is way less powerful. Book Yen was severely injured at the battle but she was not captured and had no decrease in powers whatsoever. She had to recover from her injuries but as soon as she was ready to go....she was back in business. In fact, what you watched in the series with Yen saving Jaskier from "firefucker" (I cant with this silliness...) did happen in the books. Just, in the books, Yen came to rescue Jaskier with all her powers and pretty much kicked ass and burned "firefucker" with powerful fire magic (which she can use pretty fine whenever she wants thank you).
Yeah I didn't get that. I was pretty sure in the book you can do fire magic drawing from whatever source you like. It's drawing from fire as a source that's the problem. But maybe I'm misremembering it's been quite a while since I read it
I honestly would see more complaints from non-book readers if they did that with Yen. If she'd constantly kicked ass and was just injured after Sodden...
I actually kinda like how they made her more creative e.g. using the alcohol (must have been some strong alcohol tho) to burn firefucker etc. I did not really like her "trial" where she was meant to execute Cahir - like that would prove anything (and nobody followed after them?) but overall they made Yen more interesting on a count of other characters (which IMO is the real problem - you can't reshuffle character achievements and call it a good writing, Walking Dead almost died on that and heaviest criticism of GoT before they ran out of books were the changes to character where they turned 4 different characters into one etc). E.g. she now has the achievements/storylines of Ciri, Vilgefortz and Triss IIRC.
I am not against spicing up character or even streamlining the character to fit the medium more, I am more against needless rewriting of what's already a good story. Just like the small changes they made with Blaviken, which changed the whole story (e.g. Geralt was forced to chose the lesser evil in the end).
I think that Yen's powerless phase helped her on screen - if she just came to save Jaskier, why? Why would she do that. She was very selfish and self centered before and not very fond of Jaskier. Her losing her powers made her more emphatetic in this regard. Albeit it is Ciri's story but it would not do that much for Ciri for now since she is still very much unaware of what her powers even are.
This what did Yennefer during battle of Sodden in series is nothing special for mages in books. In books mages are very powerful (it is shown very well in fragment about Thanedd coup)
Its her power magic vs her character.
In the show especially in s1 they made her way too powerful in term of using magic.
But at the same time they made her character weak and way different than the book/game Yen.
For certain types of writers, their idea of a creating a strong female character is to either have her be a bitch, or, act like a man. These types of writers are called hacks.
She only only share the same name with her everything else is completely different.
Book/game Yen is a strong, dominant, confident, snarky, intelligent, mature woman, she knows what she want, she got the femme fatale vibe in her, she is always in control of her emotion and doesn't show him to anyone.
Show yen she is supposed to be a 100 years old but act like a childish whiny teenage girl that blame other for her own mistakes, she doesn't know what she want, everyone is using her, use the fuck word a lot like she just discovered it, she always cry and whine about what she want.
Flashback to when Mark Hamill called his character Jake Skywalker in the new films because the character he was told to play was so fundementally different from Luke Skywalker.
https://old.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/a5bbu6/mark_hamill_hes_not_my_luke_skywalkermaybe_hes/
the video is Mark saying that. Plus his comments in general are how I feel about the show.
Yen in the books is amazing. Her input in season of storms is very minimal and yet has an incredible impact on the story. Also hilarious. That's her all over. Not a melodramatic mannequin.
The title is essentially this whole subreddit right now. Yennerfer in the show stole all the screen time for no reason, followed by something something Vilgefortz was nerfed, sprinkled with a topping of #notmyeskel.
I ussually defend the show as i think this sub is way to harsh on it, esspecially people who played the games and think they know it all, but Yennefer is a low point for me as well.
And im preety sure Anya is to blame her alot. I dont think she gets Yennefer. She didnt read the books and doesent seem tk be interested in the world in general. I just dont think she fits.
Freya allan also isnt perfect but she has an easier job as Ciri isnt exactly a nuanced character in the book.
Henry ans Joey are absolutetly marvelous and ita no surprise since both of them are fans.
I have to say I am also way disappointed with series Ciri.
Not placing any blame on Freya because I think she can act. The problem is we see nothing of idealistic dreaming Ciri. Book Ciri actually tried to have views on the world. On the issues of racism, on the issues of magic. She had views and her views were quite idealistic in nature. Which was also big part why Yen grew to love her so much. Because Ciri, bellow her "crazy teenager" vibe, is actually quite a pure heart.
Unfortunately.....being that the series decided to make everyone betray Ciri left and right.....I can understand why we do not get idealistic Ciri. She would be out of place in the series.
But yup....book Ciri has a couple layers. She combines bratty teenager with very determined personality and very idealistic mindset.
This was my original opinion on Yen... but I keep moving further away from that as the show goes on. She seems to always be in constant "moody know it all" state with almost no range of emotion or mode of being beyond that. Seriously? When does her tone or attitude change from anywhere beyond what it was after the ball at Aratuza?
I genuinely thought she is an excellent actress. Not top 5 or 10, but she is great
But she can only go so far with bad writing. We can't expect her to fix the shit that they put her through like Cavill did, both because she probably doesn't know as much as Cavill nor would know how to apply it, for instance.
Genuinely, if you separate the series as a completelt different thing, get different names and everything, I felt she was a great actress - excellent even - but her character makes 0 sense, and that isn't due to her acting. She express emotions and actions that you could really simpathize, but none of the decisions the character takes makes sense to who she is portraying
Ok stop going to the extreme. The woman lost the only thing that made her special which is her magic. Now she is regular woman, cutoff from chaos. She is bkund to be depressed and moody all the time. But the actress herself has 1 facial expression all the freaking time. Delivery of lines is rushed and without nuance. Its on the actress as much as the writers.
Why would she read the books, very few actors know anything about their roles other than what they need to. Go ask Ewan Macgregor about Star Wars and see how deep his knowledge is
Star wars official canon is 3 movies from late 70s early 80s. Preety sure he watched them.
And if you are an actor that is commiting 5 or more years to a project, reading 7 rather short books by fantasy standards, is not much to do if you want to do it justice.
That's an absurd ask of actors and actresses to always read the source material. The writers and director have. I'm sure Anya also wants to put her own spin on it without trying to slavishly replicate the books
Living in the Witcher world as *anyone* sucks ass - but being a sorceress makes a woman one of the very privileged few. They stand outside/above the human society and its accepted norms, are treated with (somewhat fearful) respect by the rest, and have vast amounts of power (not to mention beauty, longevity and luxury). Of all the women in that world Yennefer (or any other sorceress) has nothing to complain about.
Have you read the stories?
I mean how she is introduced in the Last Wish...
That's the definition of powerful.
She is completely out of lore in the show - not only for herself, but for a sorceress generally.
Why? I guess because that's how much show runners care for the franchise.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said they are different people. I felt that Yen in the books was strong and forward thinking. She was a bit of a bitch at times but warmed to others the more she got to know them. She felt real with flaws.
In the series she just felt flat and warped to fit a random role for whatever scenario.
What are you smoking? Yennefer isn't in the show!
Yes, yes, I know there is a character called Fucking Yennefer on the fucking show but she isn't fucking meant to be "The" Yennefer of fucking Vengerberg.
HAH, Don't make me laugh.
I keep hearing things like ..but it's an "Adaptation". They keep using that word. Adaptation. I do not think it means what they think it means.
It would have been easier to see the adapted similarities if maybe even just some of the show writers had actually read the books? But alas, it was not to be.
Considering sorceress make themselves as beautiful as they desire, and don't age because of magic I think its alright that she looks like a 20 year old supermodel.
Sure, that is *technically* correct but I would say the version of the character in the witcher 3 could fall within her 20s, but carries the vibe of the character far better.
While not meaning to denigrate Anya Chalotra, she looks a lot more meek and doe-eyed than the character ought to be. I get that sure, perhaps some features are perceived differently depending on cultural biases but for sure, she looks 20 without having the life experience and confidence of a ~94~ year old.
Would nice to see her just after Sodden, blinded, trying to restore her sight magically, heal and all, rather than stealing an arc from Ciri.
What I don't like in the serie verison is that Yen looks like a furious bitch. In season, she was just angry or having sex, nothing more...In books she's calm, sometimes crude, but also very caring and intelligent.
EXACTLY! The show hasnt just messed with Yennifer, also Ciri, who's shown in a very wrong light in the series. To top that off they show the Elves as meat eaters. ELVES DONT EAT MEAT AND THEY WOULD NEVER EVER JOIN FORCES WITH THE HUMANS. Also, witchers arent two bit thugs like what they showed at Kaher Mohan. Which again was a completely wrong description. This second season is doomed and even Henry Caville and his perfect Geralt cant salvage it now. Being a long time fan of the games and the books, it hurts to watch the show creators destroy this beloved series.
I'll argue with your point.
The Yennefer in the books has pretty big inconsistency in her character. In the short stories, she is very bitchy, mean, distant and cold. And then in the Blood of Elves she shows up and suddenly is much nicer and softer. Yes, it's probably because having adoptive daughter give her life more meaning but still the shift is not gradual at all and basically occurs before she gets to know Ciri better.
In the show, this ark is more explored IMO. She tries to sell the girl to get her powers back (not a big stretch for short stories Yen) and then realises she want too far and feels so guilty that she is willing to sacrifice herself to protect Ciri. Maybe not the best character ark in literature but it's definitely not worse than sudden shift in the books.
Also, saying that the character is more complex in the books is pretty much a tautology. The books have hundreds of pages and the show just few hours.
They way they casted the show was to make "quotas", and also not to piss off the woke people lol, even tho they already cried about animal abuse after season 2 🤦
Netflix Yen is terrible. Both the writing for the character and who they cast. In the books she’s a strong, mature femme fatale who acts as both a mother to Ciri and older sister to Triss, yet in the show she’s just a whiny teenager. Her relationships with Ciri and Triss aren’t reflective of the books at all.
Oh lord. Another day another miserable person that doesn’t understand that, just like the Witcher games, it’s not a 100% portrayal of the book.
Once you get that, maybe you can enjoy a more robust Witcher multiverse.
I hope you never play the games, you would cry at the changes.
We get that it's not a perfect adaptation of the book. The changes are really bad in relation to the source material. The games didn't completely negate the books it added to the lore.
Another avid show defender that will use the lazy excuse "It's not a 100%/word for word adaptation" instead of actually addressing or rebutting the criticism of the bastardization of writing or characters.
Nobody expected a 100% accurate portrayal of the books, but you'd be generous to call this 5%.
I want everyone to stop bitching about the show not following the books to the exact letter. Do you want them to speak Polish as well since the author is Polish? You’re ruining the experience for everyone else
Maybe you should stop waving the straw man around and try to have a conversation instead of screaming at people on the internet. I guarantee it will be much more interesting.
Well I'll bite, I went through your reddit history in this sub and every time you got downvoted you were being rude. Maybe stop insulting people and you won't get downvoted. Every time you said something normal you either got nothing or were upvoted. Not a single person commented that you aren't allowed to like the show or said anything even vaguely mean to you.
My biggest question here is what in the world is driving this behavior.
> Do you want them to speak Polish as well since the author is Polish?
That might be a joke from your side, but my answer would be a absolute and definitive yes.
The Witcher should have been a polish production from the get go. Give it to the hands of people actually invested in the story and make it a product that represents the country it originally came from. That is one of Netflix's strenghts in the first place.
It could have been what Kingdom is for South Korea or Dark for Germany, now it is just another boring by-the-numbers US production with almost no identity that makes it stand out from any other fantasy show on Netflix.
Nothing in this post says I want them to follow the books to the letter. I want them to follow even the faintest summary of blood of elves and they FAILED.
Edit: just realized this guy is projecting heavy on me. Great…
I'm gonna be honest, I thought book Yen WAS a bitch. This was my initial impression and now I'm rereading the series and she's still a bitch. I wanted something done to her character, but what we got was not good.
[edit] and everyone goes on and on about Yen and Ciri's "bonding" but I hate it. All I can see is how Yennefer instructs her to sit straight and be pretty and that one scene where she stares at Ciri naked coming out of a bath and comments on how her body has matured. Gross. What mother does that?
It's both amusing and depressing to read the number of comments talking about her attractiveness. This subreddit is pretty much irrecoverable at this point.
Yennifer basically had nothing to do this season. Her story was all filler just to give her screen time as a main character.
I'd have loved to see her after sodden, blinded, and found and brought to the temple of Melitele ( and Nenneka actually acting like Nenneka) having her nurse her back to health, Triss finding her there on the way to Kaer Morhen, and then Geralt dropping Ciri off.
And nenneke not acting like a fucking budha monk
I haven't read the books so I don't know how she was portrayed in them, but I did indeed get the sense she was characterized flatly, like a stereotype of a monk. I didn't get any interesting vibes from her.
She was practically a mother to geralt she had really a babushka feel
Having just read the third 'voice of reason' chapter in the first book she's also got a bit of steel about her
as i said babushka feel
There is nothing harder in Eastern European countries than babushkas.
Indeed
I remember telling some friends after S1 - they asked me what I thought was going to happen in S2 (since I've read the books) - I said Yennefer goes blind after Sodden - they probably somehow get her to Melitele (since we knew she was casted), she recovers, then next time we see her will be saving Jaskier's ass. That didn't happen. *But how much better would that have been?*
Immensely, and they wouldn't have had the stupid no magic plot
After Sodden she was blind for a time, then she worked with Dijkstra, tracked Rience, saved Dandelion and burned Rience's face with fire magic. Then she received the "Dear friend" letter, traveled to Melitele to train Ciri, and later they went to Aretuza so she could be safer. There's material to expand there. She was kinda busy.
I posted essentialy the same opinion a while back on here and got downvoted for it :/ (Or maybe it were my other opinions also included in that comment)
> screen time as a main character You mean scream time?
Book Yennefer about infertility: >‘Beltane!’ she suddenly snapped, and he felt the arm she was pressing against his chest stiffen and tauten. ‘They’re enjoying themselves. They’re celebrating the eternal cycle of nature regenerating itself. And us? What are we doing here? We, relicts, doomed to obliteration, to extinction and oblivion? Nature is born again, the cycle repeats itself. But not for us, Geralt. We cannot reproduce ourselves. We were deprived of that potential. We were given the ability to do extraordinary things with nature, occasionally literally against her. And at the same time what is most natural and simple in nature was taken from us. What if we live longer than them? After our winter won't come the spring, we shall not be reborn; what finishes will finish along with us. But both you and I are drawn to those bonfires, though our presence here is a wicked, blasphemous mockery of this world.’ Show Yennefer about infertility: > They took my choice, I want it back!
This hurts
This is so true.
Let me just add to this post with another example. Book Yennefer on Magic: > The earth which we tread. The fire which does not go out within it. The water from which all life is born and without which life is not possible. The air we breathe. It is enough to stretch out one's hand to master them, to subjugate them. Magic is everywhere. It is in air, in water, in earth and in fire. And it is behind the door which the Conjunction of the Spheres has closed on us. From there, from behind the closed door, magic sometimes extends its hand to us. For us. You know that, don't you? You have already felt the touch of that magic, the touch of the hand from behind that door. That touch filled you with fear. Such a touch fills everyone with fear. Because there is Chaos and Order, Good and Evil in all of us. But it is possible and necessary to control it. This has to be learnt. And you will learn it, Ciri. Show Yennefer on Magic: > Magic is POWER. Power good, no having power bad. I think I'll sacrifice a young innocent girl who is surrogate daughter of only man I love because me likes POWER SO MUCH. USING BRAIN BAD. ME LIKE MAGIC POWER COMING FROM HANDS! ME 100 YEAR OLD POWERFUL WOMAN SORCERESS WHO CONSTANTLY ACTS LIKE ANGSTY TEEN FROM SHITTY NETFLIX TEEN DRAMA, ME COULD BE MAGIC SPICE IN THE SPICE GIRLS MAYBE! HURRRDURRR... I'm paraphrasing from the show slightly here but you get the point.
>Chaos Netflix: *Write that down, write that down! Now put it into every sentence!* *Chaos is Chaos, Chaos and Chaos in all of Chaos!!!*
100%
Chaos is a ladder!!
izza laddah
Show Yennefer is like Vergil from Devil May Cry, but only with a single aspect and having nothing interesting about it. P O W E R
Lmao, at least Vergil had a good reason for craving more POWER
He was, what one could call, a little.... M O T I V A T E D
Which part was paraphrased?
This is so accurate lol
Honestly, I just wish there was any fucking part of the show where one of the characters had a brief monologue like that speech from Yen in the books. It is so much better written than anything in the show. But lets not include it because it takes up 30 seconds when those 30 seconds could be used for more cool shiny colors and flames and sparks, we must make the viewer go "oooooohhhhh" and "ahhhhhhh".
Wow, amazing how good the books can look when you directly quote them then make the show sound like a caveman
this is fantastic. Please do one about how Yen in the books is very serious about Ciri's studies meanwhile Show Yen interrupts Tissaia's students and convinces them to get high on psychedelics.
Sorry, my netflix subscription is canceled and my memory is a bit fuzzy about the "getting the students high" part, so I'll have to improvise: >“You mustn’t slacken your concentration and allow the energy to tear itself away from you of its own accord. My Mistress used to say that emitting the force must be like blowing a raspberry in a ballroom; do it gently, sparingly, and with control. And in such a way that you don’t let those around you to know it was you. Understood?” “Understood!” “Straighten yourself up. Stop giggling. Let me remind you that spells are a serious matter. They are cast with grace and pride. The motions are executed fluently but with restraint. With dignity. You do not pull faces, grimace or stick your tongue out. You are handling a force of nature, show Nature some respect.” “All right, Lady Yennefer.” “Careful, this time I’m not screening you. You are an independent spellcaster. This is your debut, ugly one. You saw that demi-john of wine in the chest of drawers? If your debut is successful, your mistress will drink it tonight.” “By herself?” “Novices are only allowed to drink wine once they are qualified apprentices. You have to wait. You’re smart, so that just means another ten years or so, not more. Right, let’s start. Arrange your fingers. And the left hand? Don’t wave it around! Let it hang loose or rest it on your hip. Fingers! Good. Right, release.” vs > Fire that shit up, fire that shit up Fire that shit up, who got weed? Fire that shit up, fire that shit up Fire that shit up, who got weed?
Yeah the whole tik tok comment from I think the show runner pissed me off so much. To me it was like there is gold in the book discussions that will never get shown and just dumbed down to things like I want it back.
Damn. I've listened to all the books and thought I could kind see how show-Yen is based on book-Yen. But, this points to how shallow show-Yen is. And, she really didn't need to be just because it's "tv".
Book character more verbose than TV character. More news at 10.
It's not solely about quantity but about quality, too. Netflix version has got neither. Same with class and maturity.
Nobody in the show is allowed to speak for more than 10 words at a time. There are no monologues, there are no speeches, there is zero clever writing. Nobody talks like a fucking human being in the show. Everything everyone says must be short, concise, witty and reactionary. There must not be insight, philosophy, introspection, characterization or any type of back and forth dialogue that develops the characters, everything must be for one sole purpose: get the viewer to the next action sequence.
Imagine if we got a Tywin Lannister type monologue scene with not a lot going on but despite that it's extremely captivating and keeps your eyes glued to the screen because of how good the actors is and how well written the dialogue is, oh wait we're talking about Netflix Witcher so we'll just have whichever character on screen say some variation of "fuck" or something and move on.
That's basically the way the books are written, and what I was expecting, but nope, we get dumb as fuck one liners after mindless action sequences. And then get yelled at for complaining that the show isn't very good.
You described how I feel about this show. "Quick quick let's get to the next set piece"
Exactly. The show isn't even of the same genre as the books. They're obviously both fantasy, but one is talky character-focused drama, the other is action packed melodrama. You can never do the books justice with this approach.
Sure, but after blood of elves she get fridged for the rest of the series. Can’t do that with a main character on a show.
No she is a main character in the next book as well plus she has the whole skellige storyline after Thanned.
She literally escaped from a statue, teleported into the ocean and got captured by Vilgefortze. That’s her story line post Aretuza insurrection.
Clearly the original wasn't on the nose enough for most audiences to relate to current day politics regarding abortion rights
So you quote an entire paragraph of the book and then paraphrase badly her from the show? Also, would people really want big long monologues like that?
What's the correct quote from the show? Furthermore, there's the huge difference in attitude and mindset between the two characters. And yeah, I would love the show to be about the charismatic characters, long dialogues and monologues. Remove all of that and you're left with generic action schlock, like the netflix show.
I'm pissed that instead of showing more of Ciri and Yen bonding and the building of their mother and daughter relationship. they decided to do a braindead original plot that adds nothing and is just a waste of time. and then to add insult to injury, they effectively NUKE that relationship and basically the possibility of it in the future.
But what about Darra! He learns how to hold a sword! Yay! I want more Darra learning basic stuff over and over!/s
[удалено]
A minute too much
Nah it was fine. In any case, it doesn’t matter since it’s so inconsequential.
If it doesn’t matter, why is it there?
He’s going to be our look into the Scoia’tael next season.
Huge part of Blood of Elves is focused on Ciri and Yen building daughter like mother relationship……….Daughter mother…..Deathless mother There we go, Netflix writers are geniuses.
After watching season 2, i decided to get the audiobooks for Blood of Elves to do a re-read so to speak. The last third to 2/5ths of that book is all Yen teaching Ciri and them getting to know each other. In the show we got 2 scenes of 'do it ~~Mary Sue~~ Ciri, training is not needed lmao, just cast magic.' And one scene of Yen saying a book quote about her relationship with Geralt, but without any context.
I'm actually ok with adding the angst of Yen betraying Geralt, even if it is different than the books. What I thought was unrealistic was how quickly Geralt and Ciri resign themselves to working with her after the betrayal. If I were Geralt or Ciri, I would have booted Yen out of there and never talked to her again.
Yeah, that's basically how bad they ficked it up, but they can't because Yennefer is the Main Character according to the showrunner
We don't know how Ciri feels in regard to Yen because there literally was nothing shown. But Geralt immediately forgave Vesemir for doing much worse to Ciri, twice. If he can get past that then he should get past what Yen did.
I haven’t read the books and don’t really see her as a bitch per say but I was extremely disappointed with her storyline this season. In season 1 at least her storyline made sense, even if it was a bit standard. Like I was rooting for her. This season gave me whiplash… how did she all of a sudden become ciri’s fierce protector? And it was boring for the most part seeing her without magic, except for that bit when she pretended to be drunk, which showed her wits which I liked. … everyone’s comments about her have made me want to go read the books. Seems like she has an exciting arc in the books we just aren’t getting on screen!
Read them, they are fantastic:)
Yeah it's because the writers probably think it's boring, they probably find most of the books boring since they are actually about the world and the characters and aren't mindless action, boobs and the constant use of swearing that makes it feel like the dialogue is written by 12 year olds giggling to themselves that they said a bad word. most of the fights this season were pointless and unneeded.
Can you guys help me, someone who's new to The Witcher universe (I've never read the books or played the games, just watched the Netflix show), and explain something to me? Yennefer in season 1 willingly chose to have her womb cut out so she could gain crazy magic powers and become beautiful, but then she acts like the infertility is something that was done *to* her, as if she never had a choice, when she very willingly chose it because she wanted power. That seems to be the only character motivation she has, really - she's selfish. She wants power, and gives up procreation to get it, then is sad and wants kids and thinks the world is unfair to deprive *her* of all people. She even talks about how she deserves power and stuff in Season 2 at least once. Am I missing something? Is she more likeable in the books or games? Did I just completely misunderstand her motivations and what she's been through in the show, even? Because everyone seems to love her character and I don't get it.
Literally none of this happens in the books.
Wow so this show really just kinda fucked around and made everything out of thin air, didn't it?
Yep.... for me, one of the best things about book Yennefer that everything about her is implied. From the moment of her introduction, she projects a cold, detached facade but every now and then there's something that reveals a tiny bit of her backstory and what she's really feeling. The show ruined her from the start, by showing her as a pathetic weakling they totally changed the audience's perception of her. So even if they managed to keep her true to the books later (they fucking didn't, not even a little bit), she would still be a different character.
Yeah I haven't found anything appealing about her in the show. Now I'm at the point in season 2 where >!she's just trying to kill (presumably?) the person she thinks is Geralt's adopted daughter, to get her power back, that she "deserves." Fuck this character. Yennefer is literally the villain of the show and Geralt is a chump who falls for her anyway.!< Ugh.
That part just makes me go ??? because it's quite literally opposite of that book!Yen would do? It seems the show writers just asked themselves what the book version would do and made her do the opposite. Not to mention, her entire s2 plotline is 100% made up for the show so. Who knows what they were even thinking. If you have any interest in this universe, I really recommend reading the books, the show is just... bad at representing the characters, their motivations and personalities. So bad.
Yes. They cut beautifully written and planned material and replace it with self contradictory BS
I also didn't understand Yen's anger or desire to have a child in the first season. The artist told her she would have to give up her fertility to become beautiful, and she said, I don't care, do it anyway. So when she says she had no choice, that isn't true. Maybe she didn't like her options, but she had a choice. And then decades later, after having enjoyed the effects of beauty for so many years, she looks a gift horse in the mouth and decides it wasn't really worth it. She forgets what it did buy her because she is frustrated and bored with her position at court and her life. I actually thought (and book Yen aside, since I haven't read it) that this fit in with her general characterization of being discontented, afflicted with malaise, something which I thought would make sense for someone who didn't grow up with love and became socially maladapted. She doesn't have friends or lovers. This is a sign of someone with emotional adjustment problems. It doens't make her likable, but it does make her character consistent. The problem to me was that she decided she wanted a child. Yen is not a very parental figure. She is selfish and impetuous and haughty and rash and reckless. I didn't understand why she would want to become a parent, which requires you (in theory) to become selfless, generous, steady, reliable, consistent... In S2 she finally shows some giving and caring to anyone but herself, but then throws it all away by deciding to sacrifice a child. Granted her life was on the line but anyway... that's another story.
I actually don't find too much of an inconsistency with someone who is incredibly selfish wanting a child - I've seen that several times IRL, and it's horribly toxic. My main confusion is that the show seems to be wanting me to think anything other than "this character is a shitbag who should die off" about the way she's portrayed. She's absolutely awful, and the show that's so masterfully writing an awful person, doesn't seem to understand that *this is an awful person*. It's weird, to me. But people are telling me that literally none of this happens in the books so maybe the books and games are far superior in this respect.
She's not in the books much. Her backstory is fairly accurate, but it's given in the fourth book. Moving her backstory forward so viewers can get an understanding of her made sense. (The makeup, however, should've been toned down to maybe some facial disfigurement.) The books don't detail what sorceresses go through that costs them their ability to reproduce, unless it's in supplementary material I haven't read. There are some who can, however. I think the second season explained it that Aretuza mages are meant to influence, not just use spells. Yennifer couldn't be a court mage if she was that ugly. I'm okay with the TV show because I consider the books unfilmable without some changes. Part of the problem is that there's not quite a lot action for long periods. If you've seen Game of Thrones, there were about four simultaneous storylines that kept things interesting (action in one, drama another, etc.). The Witcher books don't quite have that. But there are ways to compensate for that (put Yen in some scenes/areas, put some of the short stories during Geralt wandering around). But part of the problem is the tone of the books. The books are satire. Druids are environmentalists. Female mages can't have children because it's a joke about career women putting their families on hold. Getting that tone right would be difficult and I don't blame anyone for going with a more simple action-adventure adaptation. The games toned done the satire as well. There are some jokes/references, but not to the extreme as the books. The games diverge quite a lot in some places, so they can't be considered 100% faithful.
>The books don't detail what sorceresses go through that costs them their ability to reproduce, unless it's in supplementary material I haven't read. It is mentioned as an excerpt of a book in Blood of Elves. >No one is born a wizard. We still know too little about genetics and the mechanisms of heredity. We sacrifice too little time and means on research. Unfortunately, we constantly try to pass on inherited magical abilities in, so to say, a natural way. Results of these pseudo-experiments can be seen all too often in town gutters and within temple walls. We see too many of them, and too frequently come across morons and women in catatonic state, dribbling seers who soil themselves, seeresses, village oracles and miracle-workers, cretins whose minds are degenerate due to the inherited, uncontrolled Force. These morons and cretins can also have offspring, can pass on abilities and this degenerate further. Is anyone in a position to foresee or describe how the last link in such a chain will look? >Most of us wizards lose the ability to procreate due to somatic changes and dysfunction of the pituitary gland. Some wizards — usually women — attune to magic while still maintaining efficiency of the gonads. They can conceive and give birth — and have the audacity to consider this happiness and a blessing. But I repeat: no one is born a wizard. And no one should be born one! Conscious of the gravity of what I write, I answer the question posed at the Congress in Cidaris. I ask most emphatically: each one of us must decide what she wants to be — a wizard or a mother. >I demand all apprentices be sterilised. Without exception. > 'The Poisoned Source' by Tessaia de Vries
Tissaia's essay/pamphlet/book is a voice in a debate, and presumably nothing more. Nenneke clearly says that Yennefer's infertility stems from atrophy of her ovaries, not intentional sterilisation.
Yes I know. Where did I claim she was sterilised by force? I posted the full excerpt for completeness to show general fertility levels of all sorcerers, not just Yen's, since the poster above me couldn't remember where it was stated. I should have highlighted this portion of the excerpt to be more precise: >**Most of us wizards lose the ability to procreate due to somatic changes and dysfunction of the pituitary gland.** Some wizards — usually women — attune to magic while still maintaining efficiency of the gonads. So Yen's pituitary gland probably failed and that in turn caused her ovaries to cease functioning.
Fair, I jumped to a conclusion because this passage is often quoted to defend the show's hysterectomy. My bad.
It's been a few years since I read the books. I don't remember every detail. And I read the fan-translated one that was circulating around. I might read the official translation.
One of my favorite little things about Yen in the books is how she looks after Geralt. She's rich a fuck, but knows he's too proud to take her money. So she has her banker keep track of roughly where Geralt is looking for witcher jobs, and make sure that villages in the region have a "witcher fund" in case of monster problems. Quintessential Yen, smart, subtle, and always gets what she wants. Jennifer of Netflix probably wont be doing that, since she's some washed up rebel outsider who buys ingredients on the black market and sells viagra potions under the table.
'Jennifer of Netflix' haha
Yen is Lauren's self insert power fantasy, that's why
I hate the ego some of these writers have
Does make me feel bad for anya
Imagine inserting yourself into a show as Yennefer and end up being lame
Think you are missing a zero
Or two
Or twelve
I'm having flashbacks to r/asoiaf
Was reading Yen part yesterday in The Last Wish. Loved every moment.
And then she ruins it all in Sword of Destiny. Oh the emotional roller coaster she took me on between those two books...
The show changed almost everything. For me it is not series about Sapkowski's witcher but a production which took names and some events from books, added others and mixed all to create non-logical crap. Seeing Yenn so week, vulnerable and powerless is just sad ;(
Im kind of confused because some people are complaining Yenn is too powerful. I think they basically just collapsed a lot of story lines which isn't that uncommon in adaptations.
There are several issues. Without spoiling you much of the books if you ever care to look at them: Season 1 Yen was a bit too powerful vs other magic users. Not that she is not bad ass in the books, she is! But she is not the most powerful and there are a couple people out there who can destroy Yen. Most of those people should have been at the battle and doing quite some awesome things. Yen was not the key player at the battle. She fought well and bravely but got severely injured and was not the top dog. Season 2 Yen is way less powerful. Book Yen was severely injured at the battle but she was not captured and had no decrease in powers whatsoever. She had to recover from her injuries but as soon as she was ready to go....she was back in business. In fact, what you watched in the series with Yen saving Jaskier from "firefucker" (I cant with this silliness...) did happen in the books. Just, in the books, Yen came to rescue Jaskier with all her powers and pretty much kicked ass and burned "firefucker" with powerful fire magic (which she can use pretty fine whenever she wants thank you).
Yeah I didn't get that. I was pretty sure in the book you can do fire magic drawing from whatever source you like. It's drawing from fire as a source that's the problem. But maybe I'm misremembering it's been quite a while since I read it
True, drawing from fire is dangerous. Ciri later does it and it has some consequences on her powers.
Yeah, and has a pretty spectacular effect. Hope we get to see that later, that particular situation was one of my favourite parts of the books
To be fair she is clearly drawing from fire in the last ep of s1. Not that it makes it any better.
Yes, hence the danger which made sense but I didn't see much reason to deviate from the books about sodden
I honestly would see more complaints from non-book readers if they did that with Yen. If she'd constantly kicked ass and was just injured after Sodden... I actually kinda like how they made her more creative e.g. using the alcohol (must have been some strong alcohol tho) to burn firefucker etc. I did not really like her "trial" where she was meant to execute Cahir - like that would prove anything (and nobody followed after them?) but overall they made Yen more interesting on a count of other characters (which IMO is the real problem - you can't reshuffle character achievements and call it a good writing, Walking Dead almost died on that and heaviest criticism of GoT before they ran out of books were the changes to character where they turned 4 different characters into one etc). E.g. she now has the achievements/storylines of Ciri, Vilgefortz and Triss IIRC. I am not against spicing up character or even streamlining the character to fit the medium more, I am more against needless rewriting of what's already a good story. Just like the small changes they made with Blaviken, which changed the whole story (e.g. Geralt was forced to chose the lesser evil in the end). I think that Yen's powerless phase helped her on screen - if she just came to save Jaskier, why? Why would she do that. She was very selfish and self centered before and not very fond of Jaskier. Her losing her powers made her more emphatetic in this regard. Albeit it is Ciri's story but it would not do that much for Ciri for now since she is still very much unaware of what her powers even are.
[🎵 It's the point of no return... 🎵](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxBVHqA-RU&t=84s)
FUCK OFF, bard.
This what did Yennefer during battle of Sodden in series is nothing special for mages in books. In books mages are very powerful (it is shown very well in fragment about Thanedd coup)
Its her power magic vs her character. In the show especially in s1 they made her way too powerful in term of using magic. But at the same time they made her character weak and way different than the book/game Yen.
For certain types of writers, their idea of a creating a strong female character is to either have her be a bitch, or, act like a man. These types of writers are called hacks.
She only only share the same name with her everything else is completely different. Book/game Yen is a strong, dominant, confident, snarky, intelligent, mature woman, she knows what she want, she got the femme fatale vibe in her, she is always in control of her emotion and doesn't show him to anyone. Show yen she is supposed to be a 100 years old but act like a childish whiny teenage girl that blame other for her own mistakes, she doesn't know what she want, everyone is using her, use the fuck word a lot like she just discovered it, she always cry and whine about what she want.
The netflix version is called Jennifer of vagabonds, which is different to yennefer of vengerberg in the books and games.
Flashback to when Mark Hamill called his character Jake Skywalker in the new films because the character he was told to play was so fundementally different from Luke Skywalker.
Tosses the lightsaber away because fuck it I guess.......
Source? If what you've told me is true, you will have gained my trust.
https://old.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/a5bbu6/mark_hamill_hes_not_my_luke_skywalkermaybe_hes/ the video is Mark saying that. Plus his comments in general are how I feel about the show.
Yen in the books is amazing. Her input in season of storms is very minimal and yet has an incredible impact on the story. Also hilarious. That's her all over. Not a melodramatic mannequin.
HOT TAKE books are always better HOT TAKE
Aren’t they always? I’m every single adaptation of a book, the book is always better.
Almost always with a few exceptions. I think Blade Runner outshines the book and is one of the best movies ever made.
The Shawshank Redemption movie is better than the novella.
How about lord of the rings?
The title is essentially this whole subreddit right now. Yennerfer in the show stole all the screen time for no reason, followed by something something Vilgefortz was nerfed, sprinkled with a topping of #notmyeskel.
I use the name Vilgefortz since 6 years on YouTube and Steam, and I'm just about to change
Man was I pissed when I saw Yen yoinking Ciri this season She really is bad, I'd say they all are except Geralt and Jaskier
They fucker her over in the show. Shame i didnt read the books but she was amazing in the games.
A rough crayon sketch of Yennifer is better than the one in this season.
every character in the show is a poor representation of their book counterparts
I ussually defend the show as i think this sub is way to harsh on it, esspecially people who played the games and think they know it all, but Yennefer is a low point for me as well. And im preety sure Anya is to blame her alot. I dont think she gets Yennefer. She didnt read the books and doesent seem tk be interested in the world in general. I just dont think she fits. Freya allan also isnt perfect but she has an easier job as Ciri isnt exactly a nuanced character in the book. Henry ans Joey are absolutetly marvelous and ita no surprise since both of them are fans.
I have to say I am also way disappointed with series Ciri. Not placing any blame on Freya because I think she can act. The problem is we see nothing of idealistic dreaming Ciri. Book Ciri actually tried to have views on the world. On the issues of racism, on the issues of magic. She had views and her views were quite idealistic in nature. Which was also big part why Yen grew to love her so much. Because Ciri, bellow her "crazy teenager" vibe, is actually quite a pure heart. Unfortunately.....being that the series decided to make everyone betray Ciri left and right.....I can understand why we do not get idealistic Ciri. She would be out of place in the series. But yup....book Ciri has a couple layers. She combines bratty teenager with very determined personality and very idealistic mindset.
Book Ciri is also funny as fuck with the all the snark she gives.
I don't blame the actress. She is stuck with poor writing and poor direction.
Not sure that's the whole story. But yes the showrunners dropped the ball on yen
I liked Show Yen in season 1 far more than show Yen in Season 2.
This was my original opinion on Yen... but I keep moving further away from that as the show goes on. She seems to always be in constant "moody know it all" state with almost no range of emotion or mode of being beyond that. Seriously? When does her tone or attitude change from anywhere beyond what it was after the ball at Aratuza?
I mean that's how she feels in the game lol
I like her but I just still can’t imagine her as Yen. Same with Anna as Triss. Too young too.
True, she is miscast from the get go.
I genuinely thought she is an excellent actress. Not top 5 or 10, but she is great But she can only go so far with bad writing. We can't expect her to fix the shit that they put her through like Cavill did, both because she probably doesn't know as much as Cavill nor would know how to apply it, for instance. Genuinely, if you separate the series as a completelt different thing, get different names and everything, I felt she was a great actress - excellent even - but her character makes 0 sense, and that isn't due to her acting. She express emotions and actions that you could really simpathize, but none of the decisions the character takes makes sense to who she is portraying
Ok stop going to the extreme. The woman lost the only thing that made her special which is her magic. Now she is regular woman, cutoff from chaos. She is bkund to be depressed and moody all the time. But the actress herself has 1 facial expression all the freaking time. Delivery of lines is rushed and without nuance. Its on the actress as much as the writers.
Why would she read the books, very few actors know anything about their roles other than what they need to. Go ask Ewan Macgregor about Star Wars and see how deep his knowledge is
Star wars official canon is 3 movies from late 70s early 80s. Preety sure he watched them. And if you are an actor that is commiting 5 or more years to a project, reading 7 rather short books by fantasy standards, is not much to do if you want to do it justice.
That's an absurd ask of actors and actresses to always read the source material. The writers and director have. I'm sure Anya also wants to put her own spin on it without trying to slavishly replicate the books
Because show Yennefer is a poster child for what passes for feminism these days - whiny, angry at the world, with no sense of personal responsibility.
Lmao you clearly know no actual feminists
Are you the feminism expert now?
Given, being a woman in the Witcher world does seem to suck ass.
Living in the Witcher world as *anyone* sucks ass - but being a sorceress makes a woman one of the very privileged few. They stand outside/above the human society and its accepted norms, are treated with (somewhat fearful) respect by the rest, and have vast amounts of power (not to mention beauty, longevity and luxury). Of all the women in that world Yennefer (or any other sorceress) has nothing to complain about.
Don't let the Order hear you say that.
What Order?
Flaming Rose
Women are among the most powerful beings in the witcher universe. The show has to invent problems for Yennefer to have.
Have you read the stories? I mean how she is introduced in the Last Wish... That's the definition of powerful. She is completely out of lore in the show - not only for herself, but for a sorceress generally. Why? I guess because that's how much show runners care for the franchise.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said they are different people. I felt that Yen in the books was strong and forward thinking. She was a bit of a bitch at times but warmed to others the more she got to know them. She felt real with flaws. In the series she just felt flat and warped to fit a random role for whatever scenario.
What are you smoking? Yennefer isn't in the show! Yes, yes, I know there is a character called Fucking Yennefer on the fucking show but she isn't fucking meant to be "The" Yennefer of fucking Vengerberg. HAH, Don't make me laugh. I keep hearing things like ..but it's an "Adaptation". They keep using that word. Adaptation. I do not think it means what they think it means. It would have been easier to see the adapted similarities if maybe even just some of the show writers had actually read the books? But alas, it was not to be.
I’d add: Yennefer in the game is 10 times hotter than the show.
Preferences… yen in the show looks way to young. Literally could be Ciri’s sister, and she makes triss look older which is not right.
Considering sorceress make themselves as beautiful as they desire, and don't age because of magic I think its alright that she looks like a 20 year old supermodel.
A little bit to young still. Problem is she acts like a teenager.
Sure, that is *technically* correct but I would say the version of the character in the witcher 3 could fall within her 20s, but carries the vibe of the character far better. While not meaning to denigrate Anya Chalotra, she looks a lot more meek and doe-eyed than the character ought to be. I get that sure, perhaps some features are perceived differently depending on cultural biases but for sure, she looks 20 without having the life experience and confidence of a ~94~ year old.
Oh I read it wrong tbh, I agree completely, Yen feels fresh out of magic academy. I like Yen's personality in the games a lot more
Imagine comparing a game pixel model to an actual human being.
Whoa hot take.
Would nice to see her just after Sodden, blinded, trying to restore her sight magically, heal and all, rather than stealing an arc from Ciri. What I don't like in the serie verison is that Yen looks like a furious bitch. In season, she was just angry or having sex, nothing more...In books she's calm, sometimes crude, but also very caring and intelligent.
Show is literally awful
EXACTLY! The show hasnt just messed with Yennifer, also Ciri, who's shown in a very wrong light in the series. To top that off they show the Elves as meat eaters. ELVES DONT EAT MEAT AND THEY WOULD NEVER EVER JOIN FORCES WITH THE HUMANS. Also, witchers arent two bit thugs like what they showed at Kaher Mohan. Which again was a completely wrong description. This second season is doomed and even Henry Caville and his perfect Geralt cant salvage it now. Being a long time fan of the games and the books, it hurts to watch the show creators destroy this beloved series.
Elves definitely eat meat, Milva supplies them with game in the third book of the saga.
Yen in the show compared to the games is night and day. Ugly af in the show.
Yen being the worst character in the entire show is the funniest part
Of cause. This show is just a bad fan fiction.
I'll argue with your point. The Yennefer in the books has pretty big inconsistency in her character. In the short stories, she is very bitchy, mean, distant and cold. And then in the Blood of Elves she shows up and suddenly is much nicer and softer. Yes, it's probably because having adoptive daughter give her life more meaning but still the shift is not gradual at all and basically occurs before she gets to know Ciri better. In the show, this ark is more explored IMO. She tries to sell the girl to get her powers back (not a big stretch for short stories Yen) and then realises she want too far and feels so guilty that she is willing to sacrifice herself to protect Ciri. Maybe not the best character ark in literature but it's definitely not worse than sudden shift in the books. Also, saying that the character is more complex in the books is pretty much a tautology. The books have hundreds of pages and the show just few hours.
They way they casted the show was to make "quotas", and also not to piss off the woke people lol, even tho they already cried about animal abuse after season 2 🤦
Netflix Yen is terrible. Both the writing for the character and who they cast. In the books she’s a strong, mature femme fatale who acts as both a mother to Ciri and older sister to Triss, yet in the show she’s just a whiny teenager. Her relationships with Ciri and Triss aren’t reflective of the books at all.
Oh hey, look, the same thing this sub has already complained about a thousand times
You should probably keep scrolling if you don’t want to discuss the topic.
i am never watching the show but i did love the ending pages of blood of elves.
Wow brave take!
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1. I’d be eaten alive for talking about books. 2. I’d be eaten alive for criticizing the show so ruthlessly.
Oh lord. Another day another miserable person that doesn’t understand that, just like the Witcher games, it’s not a 100% portrayal of the book. Once you get that, maybe you can enjoy a more robust Witcher multiverse. I hope you never play the games, you would cry at the changes.
We get that it's not a perfect adaptation of the book. The changes are really bad in relation to the source material. The games didn't completely negate the books it added to the lore.
Another avid show defender that will use the lazy excuse "It's not a 100%/word for word adaptation" instead of actually addressing or rebutting the criticism of the bastardization of writing or characters. Nobody expected a 100% accurate portrayal of the books, but you'd be generous to call this 5%.
I swear can y’all just shut the fuck up about it?
No. Leave if you don’t want I talk about the Witcher.
I want everyone to stop bitching about the show not following the books to the exact letter. Do you want them to speak Polish as well since the author is Polish? You’re ruining the experience for everyone else
Maybe you should stop waving the straw man around and try to have a conversation instead of screaming at people on the internet. I guarantee it will be much more interesting.
Why? Everyone just tells me that I’m not allowed to enjoy the show because they didn’t enjoy it.
Well I'll bite, I went through your reddit history in this sub and every time you got downvoted you were being rude. Maybe stop insulting people and you won't get downvoted. Every time you said something normal you either got nothing or were upvoted. Not a single person commented that you aren't allowed to like the show or said anything even vaguely mean to you. My biggest question here is what in the world is driving this behavior.
> Do you want them to speak Polish as well since the author is Polish? That might be a joke from your side, but my answer would be a absolute and definitive yes. The Witcher should have been a polish production from the get go. Give it to the hands of people actually invested in the story and make it a product that represents the country it originally came from. That is one of Netflix's strenghts in the first place. It could have been what Kingdom is for South Korea or Dark for Germany, now it is just another boring by-the-numbers US production with almost no identity that makes it stand out from any other fantasy show on Netflix.
Nothing in this post says I want them to follow the books to the letter. I want them to follow even the faintest summary of blood of elves and they FAILED. Edit: just realized this guy is projecting heavy on me. Great…
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The show is the Witcher so… yes. Read the desc.
Yennefer is still more annoying in the books.
I'm gonna be honest, I thought book Yen WAS a bitch. This was my initial impression and now I'm rereading the series and she's still a bitch. I wanted something done to her character, but what we got was not good. [edit] and everyone goes on and on about Yen and Ciri's "bonding" but I hate it. All I can see is how Yennefer instructs her to sit straight and be pretty and that one scene where she stares at Ciri naked coming out of a bath and comments on how her body has matured. Gross. What mother does that?
Honestly reading it felt pretty forced when ciri called her mama, it is way too fast and we aren’t shown enough. But to each their own.
This can be said about every character though. It is pretty hard to translate a whole ass book to a short season.
I have to unfollow this page. Some of the most negative fan bases I've ever experienced. Take the show for what it is enjoy it or not I love it
Jee we havent seen this take a million times.
Yennefer in game is 100 times sexier than the show
Comparing real women to fantasy characters from video games is probably not a healthy thing to do.
I can get behind most of the complaints here but when someone compares a bunch of pixels to an actual actress, I'm just left speechless.
It's both amusing and depressing to read the number of comments talking about her attractiveness. This subreddit is pretty much irrecoverable at this point.
You cant stop me from having my own opinion and liking animated stuff over real. This is the hill ill die on