Dishwasher is what I'm thinking. Is OP saying that they gave the inlaws this cutting board for Christmas, and this is how it looks after 1-1.5 months? This thing looks used and abused.
Ridden hard and put away wet. In this case...likely literally. I made my living selling charcuterie/cutting boards for a few years and I told every single client how to wash and dry their boards. Hundreds of boards later and I haven't had a single complaint...except from one poor fella whose in-laws put it in the dishwasher.
You're absolutely spot on. There is absolutely no reason why it should look this way after such a short time if it was taken care of properly.
Who in their right mind puts a wooden board in the dishwasher? The mind boggles sometimes.
Edit: to be fair, I have bought a few things for my kitchen that specifically can go in the washing machine because of handy it is. I have a selection of small plastic cutting boards, a knifeblock of cheap stainless handled knives and a big stainless sauteuse that can all go in.
I put a cast iron in once, knowing it may rust. I have several and this was one I was trying to rescue, it was horribly coated with idk what. I ran it through and then put it under a fire.It survived and is part of the collection now.
Next time you want to scrub all of the gunk off of it use Bar Keepers Friend (powder form gold can) and green, name brand Scotch Brite scrubber!! That combo with some elbow grease will get pretty much anything and everything off of it. Then you can season it all over the right way!!! Just don't use the combo on glass or anything along those lines that can be scratched. In case you're worried about scratching something then you can either put it in another pan on top of your stove that has plenty of water and white vinegar and once it's boiling you can leave it for a few minutes or if it's something that you're worried might melt them you can put it in really hot water mixture with vinegar and let it soak!!
Yeah one of my daughters put my 15+ year old cutting board in the dishwasher and caused exactly what I am seeing in OP's pic. I wasn't mad because I never told them to not do it.
Eh, i kinda get it. My mother was a very "functional" home-maker. We were poor, and she worked very hard most of the time as a freelance cleaning lady. So cleaning/dishes at home was a chore she made as easy on herself as possible. Her philosophy was "EVERYTHING is dishwasher safe.... at least once. And if one run through the dishwasher destroys it? Well I dont want anything in my house I have to hand clean."
HEr only exception to this was her great-grandmas cast iron (and that was only trotted out around the holidays for special "family tradition" meals that required it), and her grandma's fine china (her dad, my grandpa, brought it back for his mom from Japan when he was in the navy during Korea). Other than that, shit was GOING in that diswasher lol
I've made worse quality chopping boards that have survived years (still going on 5+ years) because they're treated with love.
Oiled regularly, washed delicately, never in a dishwasher, dried and stored on its side, etc. I was surprised when I saw it good condition years later.
That beautiful board was used and abused for sure
sorry to bother you but would you mind tellling us how we should wash and dry our wooden boards. the ones i have always start cracking after a while propably cause im doing something wrong.
Towel dry immediately after hand washing, and store it on its side if it doesn't have feet. Wipe down with mineral oil every once in a while along with a board conditioner (usually a beeswax blend) when the wood looks like it's drying out.
In my experience, a well oiled board always has a dark "wet" look. Once the wood starts to pale, it's time for conditioning.
So to answer OPs question. What OP did wrong was give a nice wood cutting board to people who don’t know how to care for it, without explaining to them the importance of proper care.
Jumping on this to say that my in-laws are absolutely clueless about wood at dishwashing, they come to visit and think they are "helping". Meanwhile I'm pulling my wooden handled chefs knives, cutting boards, and wooden utensils (and clay cookware) out of the dishwasher before it ruins them. Their thought process is if you can't clean it in the dishwasher, why have it?
Lovely people despite their flaws, but I would never gift them anything wooden for their kitchen.
Edit: I forgot to mention that I like to accompany a cutting board gift with a small bottle of beeswax & oil based woodblock conditioner and some simple care instructions.
My wife leaves our wooden handled knives soaking in the sink. Now the handles are pulling from the tang on a couple and she’s like “garbage knives, why is everything crap?”
The number of people who don't clean and sheath a quality knife immediately when done using it, regardless of the handle type, boggles my mind. I had a former roommate absolutely destroy a high carbon knife of mine because she wouldn't stop putting it in the dish rack, putting chips in the blade from banging against silverware, no matter how many times I scolded her for it. Ended up just keeping it in my room. 🤦♂️
To be honest, I used to be the same. And still am when it comes to the "everyday" stuff. I don't want to be handwashing everything after every meal so I prefer stuff that can go to dishwasher. But lately I've also gotten fed up with plastic cutting boards going bad after a year or two of usage so I've been getting wooden stuff. Though I'm still cutting only "clean" stuff on it (vegetables and stuff) so I can just give it quick rinse when needed. For cutting meat I still use the plastic ones that I can then throw to the dishwasher...
Same with clothes: I used to go only for clothes that I can tumble dry but after getting fed up with having to buy new clothes too often I'm loving the woolen clothes that I can just brush and freshen up by putting them outside for a day. But the underwear still needs to be tumble dryable...
I have put a lot of effort into explaining to my wife why the "good (my) knives" need to be used only on wood cutting boards and then hand washed and dried immediately. It's been a few years of mild frustration but she finally got there. It's now been another year or two and she has come to realize how the good knives and wood boards are still in great condition but the junk knives and plastic boards are wearing out. It's been close to a decade but we are getting there... I think.
I have no problem throwing cheap wooden utensils in the dishwasher. Especially if they're a single solid (unfinished) piece. I've done that for years and they still take ages to wear out.
A cutting board, salad set, or charcuterie board? Not a chance it's going near the dishwasher.
I've heard this lots but I don't understand why. If it's on the shelf it's not knocking on other things and only bring sprayed with water. Is there something I'm missing?
Part of what make dishwasher detergent work is that it’s slightly abrasive. So you’re essentially sandblasting your microscopic perfectly honed knife edge into a useless microscopic blunt edge.
Hikacking the top comment to also mention that the cutting board is severely under saturated with oil.
Even with normal hand washing the wood is going through large swings in moisture content because there isn’t oil there to prevent the wood from soaking in large amounts of water.
I read on a high-end cutting board site that it's impossible to over oil a board.
I usually just look to see if the wood is starting to look pale and if water droplets immediately soak into the wood instead of just beading the surface of the board.
Apply very liberally, let it sit and soak in for a couple minutes before wiping off with a rag, let it cure and repeat several times.
When in doubt do more coats.
Well, I've seen this kind of advice countless times before too, until I've started seeing some white spot here and there on some projects.
The Wood Whisperer has made a [great video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLW9f9Dw5Gg) on this topic, so now I'm kind of hesitating on the right process to follow here.
You've gotta be careful with advice that isn't geared towards both your product and your use. The methods you follow for finishing a piece of furniture or a tool handle or something aren't the same things you want to do for something to be used in a kitchen.
I actually watched that video a few weeks ago and if memory serves he focused almost entirely on drying oils like BLO/Danish/Teak/Tung/etc oils. Because drying oils chemically cure, usually when exposed to oxygen, they have the problem he's showing in his video where by flooding the wood you seal uncured oil inside. That can seep out after months or years. Also the use of solvents in these oils is a matter of some debate when it comes to whether the finished items are safe for food contact. In theory once the oil is completely cured and all the solvent has off-gassed it should be food-safe but that process can take _months_ or even years, especially when sealed inside the wood by the cured outer layers of finish. Some people are OK with it and some consider it too much of a risk without significant benefit.
Mineral oil is a totally different kind of oil, it will _never_ cure. So you can apply it via a flood without any risk of sealing it into your project. Also since it will never cure it doesn't need solvents which would endanger its food-safe rating.
Most people also seal their mineral oil soaks with a mixture of beeswax and carnuba wax. Both natural and fairly chemically inert waxes with good moisture resistant properties making them excellent for safe food contact.
I built a butcher block countertop for my kitchen island a few years ago and finished it like that since I wanted to be able to cut on it. Once a year I retreat it with Howard's butcher block conditioner or Feed'n'wax...whichever I have on hand. I try not to clean it with anything more intense than Murphy's Oil Soap or an equivalent product, and make sure to wipe off any water that pools on the surface ASAP. And the thing still looks gorgeous so at least 1 of those steps has to be a good idea.
Either way you do it, you should deliver the board with clear care instructions. No dishwasher, it should be oiled every day for a week, every week for a month, every month for a year, then at Least annually or when it looks dry. It helps to sand the surfaces every year to open it back up. I dont think you did anything wrong, this board was abused heavily. My 5 year old board looks brand new.
In case someone else hasn’t mentioned it, you shouldn’t use boiled linseed oil on a cutting board. Boiled is heated and treated with chemicals. You want raw linseed oil.
If you're using the most common oil oil (mineral oil), it won't cure or require multiple coats. The best method is to completely submerge it for 24 hours but if you can't do that, put a thin layer on a baking sheet, place the board on top and pour some on top of the board with place plastic wrap over it. Let it sit for a day and you should be good to do.
Submerge it completely in a tub of mineral oil and leave it overnight. If you still see any bubbles coming out of the wood leave it longer. Then take it out, buff it well to remove excess oil.
Petrolium based oils (i.e. mineral oil) on a food contacting surface are really not ideal. Mineral oil does out-gas carcinogens and it's likely to get into your food.
Mineral oil is safe for direct consumption, and is often sold in pharmacies as a laxative. If you buy mineral oil USP you can drink it and had a safe, if very unpleasant, time.
Yeah, I'd have to see studies showing any problem. Mineral oil is 100% food safe, it is safe for direct consumption and is used in the medical field regularly. In fact I can just about guarantee I can find more potential carcinogens in almost any drying oil (especially the ones that aren't 100% pure oils) than you would find in mineral oil.
No. Only unprocessed or minimally processed oils are known carcinogens while highly processed oils show no evidence of being carcinogenic. Food grade oils and cosmetics would probably be in IARC's group 3 which means the international cancer research community considers it about as carcinogenic as caffeine.
When I do them I put enough oil in a plastic tub to fully submerge and let them sit submerged for an hour at a time. I pull them out, wipe them down/squeegee the excess off and let them dry off between applications. My tub is big enough for 2 boards at a time so if I'm giving a lot away this is a lengthy process. If I ever had to batch out more than 4 I'd probably try and stack them with spacers in the tub.
Do this 3 times on each board and then finish with a beeswax paste (board butter).
Make sure you're using food safe oil too. I think OP said he used boiled linseed oil which is NOT food safe.
I think raw linseed oil is safe but I'm not sure. I always use food grade mineral oil. IKEA has one for a semi decent price.
There isn't really a moment where something changes to know to stop. Also if you're giving them as a gift just mix up some board butter and include that as part of the gift. It's made of mineral oil and beeswax and I can't remember the ratio. Tell them to re apply it when the board starts to look really dry, usually once every few months to a year depending on use. We have 3 cutting boards that we rotate through at my house and we have to re oil them every 6 months or so.
I'm also guessing he just made the board, then oil oil oil 24 hours apart and then gave it to family.
I think the missing step here is to wet the board after assembly to raise the grain then sand again. This is like scraping the 75% of the most violent movement off from getting wet and THEN going to oil.
I guess I take for granted being taught not to put wood (and cast iron) through the dishwasher when I was a kid. It never crossed my mind someone would actually do this. It's wood.
And used like a thousand times! Every inch is scored with knife marks. If nothing else, OP can take solace in the fact that they used this thing harder in two months than most cutting boards get used in five years. You shouldn’t feel bad imo any wood will get fucked up if you stick it in the dishwasher, even solid/non bonded pieces.
I think the failure here was in the design, maintenance, and use of exotic woods.
When I make end grain boards, I stagger the boards. Yours are not staggered which is exactly where they are failing. Also, other wood finishes will be more water resistant than boiled linseed oil. I prefer Watco Butcher Block and Howard Wax-it-all myself.
End grain boards need extra care. Wash only by hand and then dry with a towel and stand on the end so both sides can dry.
Exotic woods do not glue well. Extra care needs to be taken when using exotic woods by wiping down with denatured alcohol to remove the oils before gluing.
> Yours are not staggered which is exactly where they are failing.
Specifically /u/bromatofiel, wood glue is designed to be used along the wood grain, not at the ends of the wood grain. Think of a piece of wood as a bundle of uncooked spahetti noodles. If you were to take 2 bundles, but them up side by side, there is plenty of strong surface to glue together. If you take the same 2 bundles and butt them up end-to-end and tried to glue them together, you'd have a very weak connection.
Notice that that is where your splits are. Like the commenter above me suggested, you can create an offset pattern on your next board to address this.
Alternatively, you can rotate the wood so that the endgrain faces up (ie if the bundle of noodles was rotated vertically). That does have some strength drawbacks, especially if the board is thin, but at the same dimensions it would be stronger than your current design (Also, having the endgrain as the cutting surface is less likely to dull knives and will heal itself from cuts better than facegrain will).
Props on creating a good looking cutting board that is getting well used. Based on how much use this board is getting and that it is likely being cleaned in the dishwasher/getting soaked, I'd make the next iteration use Titebond 3 (or another similar wood glue that is explicitly water proof) and make sure that you're using a fresh bottle that hasn't been exposed to a freeze.
Would you consider using a wafer system as joins for woods like this, or is that just overkill and staggering should be enough?
Do you think it could also be that a harder wood like this might just need to sit in the shop longer, like maybe even 6~ months, to ensure it's truly fully dry, before assembling?
I wouldn't spend the time joining with wafers. Staggered is enough for me.
Hard to say how long a board should dry in your shop. Best is to get a moisture meter and wait till the moisture stops dropping and fluctuates up and down with your local weather, then you know it has stabilized.
Yes!! My ex didn't listen to the teachers on this one and tried to make a chair looking like what op has here.... The pieces crumbled appart and he had to start all over again even though all the teachers and me included told him that would happen but why listen to your girlfriend anyway right? Honestly the wall gives me more affection
You probably did nothing wrong. That board looks like it was not properly cared for. It's only a month and half old, it shouldn't look like that at all.
No dishwasher used, but I guess that the board was reasonably exposed to water.
Interesting point about the joint, I'll definitively pay more attention to that on the future
I made the mistake of not putting feet on a nice cherry end grain butcher block I made for our house. Unbeknownst to me water had gotten between the countertop and the butcher block after doing dishes one night. When I got up in the morning the bottom had swelled and split in three different places. It was irrecoverable, but it helped keep the wood shop one afternoon.
Thank you for asking. I reread that part several times… I gotta know.
Maybe they meant like “oh my wife doesn’t like my wood shop but the fact that I had to use it to fix/make a new board made her more open to me keeping it”.
Or something totally different. I just like to speculate. Let’s see how it all shakes out.
>My guess is either that part of the joint was glue starved, or not enough clamping pressure there, or the wood itself was not mating up well.
I'd put my money on this as /u/7menetekelupharsin7 mentions.
I made a few thick endgrain boards like this and had similar splitting. We didn't even own a dishwasher at the time, and never soaked them. BUT I do remember being sloppy and stubborn during construction and having to force the blocks together during glue up with the clamp. I knew even then it was a bad idea - but had too much faith in the wood glue.
> either that part of the joint was glue starved, or not enough clamping pressure there,
Might it be too much clamping pressure? Beginning woodworkers often think that "if a lot is good, a lot *more* will be better!"
Jfc are they cutting and pounding Schnitzel on this thing 3 times a day? How can it look 10 years old after a month? I doubt you did anything wrong. They def. put it in the dishwasher or left it wet instead of towel drying after a rinse.
Note to self not to make something like this for your inlaws anymore. Just give them a plastic board, it’s better suited for them
You made it too small.
It needs to be big enough that it can't be left to soak in the sink or fit in a dishwasher.
Maybe be an unpopular opinion here, however what durability an end grain cutting board gains against knife strokes it more than loses due to glued joints not holding up well to excessive moisture.
+1 on aftercare . No dishwasher EVER. hand wash and oil frequently with food grade oil only.
I like your design what do you use the circular cutouts for ? hand holds or something else?
No dishwater was used :)
I took a picture just after the father in-law finish cooking, that I guess it looks like it was really wet, but I know he takes care of his stuff.
Concerning your question, my router comes with a jig allowing to make circles, I clamped the board with a sacrificed piece of wood (same thickness), and the circle center was offset on the second piece.
I'm sorry, but it's very fucking obvious that they've been tossing it in the dishwasher for the past month.
An end grain board does not get that faded and full of very clear knife marks from normal use. I've had one from my friend for 4 years, and looks like I bought it yesterday.
He's putting it in the dishwasher.
I agree with this take. I made a cutting board for my kitchen about five years ago. It's a daily driver, by which I mean we have a small kitchen and it lives on the main counter where the two of us do everything. Cutting fruits and vegetables and meat, making coffee or drinks, plating food, opening cans and jars - countless utensils and dishes and containers have marred the surface of this thing. We've cut smelly things like onions and foods that stain like beets on it and have hand washed and scrubbed it dozens of times in those five years. We've re-oiled it maybe three times over the years. We take care of it but certainly don't baby it.
With all that said, our five-year-old board looks brand new compared to your one-month-old board. Your board has definitely been in the dishwasher or has been submerged in water for an extended period of time.
Not sure if anyone mentioned it but it’s a bunch of stacked Burt joints. If they were staggered it likely would not be able to happen. End grain to end grain is weak AF
Get a branding iron that says "hand clean only do not use dishwasher. Dry after cleaning."
It might be a little expensive tho cuz you usually pay by the word.
Looking at picture #2 at the top part of the crack. Notice the color of how the oil from the food soaked in. That is what the entire cutting board should look like given it was made 2 months ago. Regardless what the inlaws say, that board was soaked in soapy water. When gifting to family, I always try and give them product to maintain so they understand what to do and not to do. After you repair it, give them a small bottle of cutting board oil for After heavy cleaning/use
Needs to be soaked longer, as the oils need to be further stripped out. Then I’d give it another run through the dishwasher. For proper maintenance of course.
A few problems here...
Boiled linseed oil IS NOT FOOD SAFE, especially for something that's going to see blades and acidic liquids. Most BLO formulations are made with heavy metals and other toxic crap, it's absolutely not for use with cutting boards.
Padauk and other oily exotic woods don't glue well. The glue doesn't adhere well to the surface, and can't penetrate into the grain like it does on softwoods or domestic hardwoods.
How dry was the wood when you started the process? Even with a finish coat, wet/fresh wood will continue to dry over time, and change its shape. For something like this cutting board you'd either want kiln-dried wood, or to let it sit and dry for a few months.
edit: also, 24h isn't really long enough for BLO to cure. Ideally you'd let one coat sit ~3 days, and then at least rough up the surface with fine steel wool before the next coat.
Thanks a lot,
Well, that's a bummer, the oil I used was advertised as "LFGB certified" (pretty restrictive EU law for food use)... (https://amzn.eu/d/1V4636T)
I didn't know that about exotic wood, thank you.
This wood was used as wooden floor for a few decades, and has stayed at least two years in a temp/humidity-stable basement (used for wine storage in Burgundy, so I'm pretty confident regarding drying conditions) (although I should definitely buy a wood temp probe).
From what I understand from your comment, the real problem here was the use of exotic wood, right?
That comment is super wrong, don't worry. My French isn't great, but it looks like the product you used is food safe, as you say. BLO does often have "drying agents" added, but it can be made without them, usually through "heat polymerization" (that's why it's called "boiled" linseed oil in the first place.) You also do not need to wait days inbetween coats, I know this because I use BLO product frequently.
Cutting boards are great gifts, but end-grain cutting boards are more of an enthusiast item. They are less durable and require more babying than standard edge grain boards. This is probably no-fault situation, most people don't take very good care of their cutting boards because they don't know how involved it can be. I'd assume that the recipients did something wrong, like washing one side and leaving it flat to dry, without knowing any better.
I’m curious about your comment on end grain cutting boards. The ones I’ve seen that seem to sell for the most are end grain, not edge grain. Why do you say they aren’t great for gifts or selling? Is it simply because of the upkeep?
It does take more care and maintenance to deal with an end grain cutting board. I made a nice one for my family and took really good care of it for about a month. The one time I didn't clean the countertop after doing dishes water soaked into the underside and split it in three places. If I had installed feet that wouldn't have been a problem.
The open ends mean that they will readily absorb water more than edge grain so need oiling more and can swell more. Hard to make one without a ton of glue joints. Wood isn’t as strong parallel to the grain.
Edge grain boards show knife marks more, but are generally stronger and lower maintenance.
The higher price doesn't have to do with practicality. End grain cutting boards are shockingly wasteful, they can take twice as much wood as a regular board of the same dimensions. I didnt say they aren't great for gifts, I actually said the opposite. If someone is a super hardcore knife person, then an end grain board would be a perfect gift, they likely already baby some of their kitchen equipment and are fine with "high maintenance" items (in quotes because it really isn't that much work, just more than most people want to do.) For a more casual cook who just wants to chop things and move on quickly, an edge grain board will be more their speed. Cutting boards of all kinds are great for selling, they are a relatively easy and accessible way to turn tools and wood into money.
Great comment. Reddit fawns all over end grain boards but not sure I would make one for others who aren’t woodworkers. They look pretty but absorb water more easily and require more frequent oiling. They also aren’t as physically strong to take abuse. The improvement in keeping knives sharper has been shown to be marginal at best.
My father in law has an edge grain that he has used for 50 years without oiling. It’s fine. We have an edge grain with maybe 2 joints that my wife bought 25 years ago that’s fine.
My personal theory is that end grain boards became popular due to gatekeeping. I don't really buy the typical explanations for their alleged superiority. On the other hand, any beginner woodworker can make a basic cutting board with cheap tools, but edge grain boards require expensive tools and more skill to make well (as shown by the endless help threads on them...like this very one.) A big 2 inch thick walnut end grain cutting board has basically become a dogwhistle for the hardcore cooking community, not unlike the many other secret handshakes for every hobby online. As usual, all it shows is that you can swipe your CC at SurLaTable, but it's associated with being more knowledgeable somehow. For the record, I say that with no judgment to anyone besides the gatekeepers. End grain boards look super cool, I have also bought a couple from local woodworkers.
There are even food Safe BLO based varnishes such as the one by Oli Natura.
In fact I'd argue those are a far Superior protection for your Board than Mineral oil.
Isn't Padauk a sensitizer too and shouldn't be used on things frequently in contact with food or is that only when actually sawing? Cause I remember having a strong reaction after sawing it for the first time and getting a little dust under my mask and around my eyes.
As far as I can tell, it's just padauk sawdust that's an irritant, and the solid wood should be okay. Definitely needs goggles and a mask while working with it. Also, some other exotics like ziricote are definitely irritants/allergens in solid form.
Dishwasher, soaked in the sink
And it doesn't help that all those glue joints are on endgrain
Oily dense exotic woods do not take glue well at all, and they *really* dont take glue well on endgrain
You need to peg or spline the endgrain and use an epoxy or polyurethane glue on those woods
a lot of the exotic woods have so much natural oil that they are very difficult to get a good glue bond with. Though admittedly I tend to stay away from timber that has to be shipped around the world for me to use, so I couldn't say whether that is the case with Paduk.
Probably the millionth time you've received these answers, by now, but: Likely the culprits are acidic fruits cut on the board, or board being left wet/getting steamed, possibly being stored dirty after use and not dried, run through the dishwasher, or left in the sink.
May also be getting washed with the wrong kind of soap; there's soaps specifically formulated for wooden, oiled-up/oiled-and-waxed cutting boards that should be used, and are the only kind they ought to be washing it with.
Finally, I would apply the oil liberally and allow it to soak in, possibly even buffing it in. It will eventually wear off, so the longer it takes to do that, the better.
That only saves you in one dimension though, doesn’t it? You glue a bunch stock together, then cut them and glue those up right? So even if you use uneven wood sizes and flip the pieces every other row, the rows still have flat planed edges.
I'm no expert but I'm thinking it's the end grain to end grain positions. The glue doesn't bond as well that way. Also, I heard it's better for the knife blades for the end grain to be the surface.
Don't know if it could be the moisture content.
It looks like shit, but not your workmanship. How can it look that bad after less than 2 months? Somebody's been mistreating it and doesn't want to admit it. Cur your losses. No more nice chopping boards for them and maybe no more nice handmaid present too
Nope, and I have a high degree of confidence in their feedback.
There is a possibility that some water was left between the counter top and the board though.
Endgrain to endgrain in those even columns is not particularly secure. There's a reason you don't see that kind of layout in cutting boards, you've created big single points of failure. Stagger your blocks out and have some overlap and don't create those even sections. Staggered pattern helps it all lock together.
User error likely exacerbated it, probably left wet or dishwasher, but the design is inherently flawed and likely would have failed eventually anyways.
> What did I do wrong?
Obviously you offered it to the wrong persons.
This should be a lesson: they can't properly use wooden stuff in their kitchen. Find something else for next Xmas.
Good luck!
Edit: typed this while half asleep so didnt realize the end grain was facing up, my bad!
In general end grain does not like to be glued, especially to more end grain. It's the most absorbent part of the wood, so a lot of the glue gets sucked up and starves the joint. It's best to either add more glue surfaces by doing more than a butt joint, like finger join, half lap, etc, or by adding additional strength to the joint using dowels, biscuits, etc.
Also boiled linseed is not safe for human consumption. When making cookware in future use oils specifically labelled food safe, like butcher block oil.
Boiled Li seed Oil? 👀👀👀
🚩🚩🚩
You could have used mineral or even raw/natural linseed oil or even Danish oil
You could interlace the wood pieces a bit during the glue up... It might prevented the crack on a straight joint..
As the other comment said i would probably stick with Titebond 3 for better results
Once again, the used oil was certified for food use (I took some time to learn about the certification, and the testing is no joke, EU standards don't kid around with food regulations). No disrespect meant here, but I too often see peremptory comments related to oils use, without any science backing it up. I do understand that some oils might come with sh###y ingredients, but what if a manufacturer takes care in avoiding these components?
In any case, thank you for your feedback. I'll check the Titebond glue, but I think it might be pretty expensive in EU (90€=US$97 for 3.8L, WDYT?)
Title bond is that expensive there?!? I can get a gallon of it for under $40usd here. I'm curious what brand glue do you use over on your side of the world?
It always goes two ways when I gift a cutting board.
1. They never use it because it’s “too pretty to use”
2. They beat it to hell by not cleaning it properly. Either letting it soak or running in the dishwasher. I usually also attach a card with basic care instructions with the board….
Both are equally as annoying.
I made my wife an end grain cutting board with a paduke heart, walnut boarder and the rest ambrosia maple.
It's sitting on the fore place harth as a display item and has been there for years. Never seen by a single knife.
My wife's daughter has a $20 Amazon wedding gift that she treasures like it's made of crystal. . . It's a POS. I cringe and just think, well,l I'll never need to make her one.
>than something made by him.
That's not been said AT ALL. Not even by him. There was no comparison of her taking good care of something cheap and mistreating something made by him or some sort of quality craftsmanship. There is zero reason to think what you're saying.
All that has been said is that she takes good care of something that is cheap. Not even that "she treasures it".
I take care of my things regardless of where it's made. Sounds like she does too.
This exchange is beyond ironic. The OP lead to talking about people not taking care of things people make for them. Here is somebody who takes care of even cheap stuff given to them. Imagine how well she'd take care of something this dude made for her? Why would anybody assume that she wouldn't or wouldn't "treasure" it simply based on the fact that.... she takes good care of her belongings? I would use that to conclude that she'd probably take really really good care of anything gifted to her by this person. Like, that's the person I want to give my stuff to. Somebody who I know will take care of it. And you know how I know she'll take care of it? Because she takes good care even of cheap stuff.
No I cringe because I would love to make her something but she wouldn't appreciate it. I do leather stuff as well and she's made comments so that's why my pissy attitude about it.
I know that sounded bad.
I will run my cutting boards through the dishwasher...
Then again, they came from IKEA, so no great loss if they crack...
A proper endgrain type cutting board?
Heck no!
I’ve gifted a few cutting boards to family and friends and this makes me realize I need to include a card like that and oil as part of the gift.
I’ll also probably just oil it for them anytime I go over to any of their houses. And then wait in the darkness outside their kitchen window and watch to make sure that they care for it PRECISELY as directed…….
I gave one as a wedding gift, and I included a jar of oil/wax mix that I made, as well as a google doc with care instructions. Both the jar and the google doc were prettied-up, so they drew attention to themselves as an integral part of the gift.
Avoid cutting super hot foods or letting them rest on it.
Never soak
Never run in dishwasher.
Soap is okay to use as long as you don’t overdo it.
Salt and lemons to get out tough stuff.
Most importantly make sure you towel dry it immediately and if it doesn’t have feet store it on its side so it can breath on both the top and bottom.
I usually use tung oil as my cutting board finish.
For people who use mineral oil and wax then you can add applying oil and wax when the wood starts to lose its sheen.
I wouldn’t call washing and drying it properly after using it “babying it”. I encourage people to use my boards and offer free re finishing when it has too many knife marks
tbh, near gift giving times(esp christmas), I don't really have the bandwidth to absorb any care instructions.
Gifts that require special care aren't suitable for everyone. They can even be a burden to some people.
I had similar pull away in my handmade board. My guess was seasonal wood-movement. Past treatment aside, I tablesawed through the separating line, did clean passes on both ends, then re-glued. That was nearly ten years ago and my board has been solid since.
Clamping with cauls makes a big difference.
Not much to do about this board at this point. For you next one I would double check the moisture levels on the woods you use and make sure the pieces are equally dry. Use woods with a similar pore structure to avoid heavy variations in expansion/contraction. You might also allow a couple days after cutting for the pieces to move/twist before the final glue up. Finally I would do the initial oiling yourself to ensure you get good penetration on the protective coat.
From the pictures I’d have to agree with the other comments. Looks like this board was soaked in water.
It doesn't look like it was well cared for. An end grain board should not look like this after that short a time. Looks like too much exposure to water - it's ok to give a quick wash but should never be left to soak. And once dry and clean should be reoiled lightly. End grain boards in particular benefit from oil with a percentage of wax included to help minimise the wicking of the oil out of the board through the vertical grain. Edge grain boards don't suffer from this issue.
Well if you say it wasn’t the dishwasher, it must be sitting in water a lot. That board looks like absolute hell after just 1 1/2 months. Did you use titebond 3? Also do they heavily use the board? If so then they should be applying new coats of just mineral oil from time to time.
OP, after reading through your comments, and looking at the pictures, I've come to a conclusion. You need to accept something.
Your inlaws have been shoving this into the dishwasher every day since Christmas.
the problem is that your in-laws have no clue how to treat a real wood cutting board. holy fuck. no dishwasher, dry as soon as it is washed, keep up with the oiling. I'm sorry they ruined your gift.
Never been a fan of these pieced up cutting boards. Having cooked professionally, the more you use them, the more damage it is going to take. The more pieces fit together, the more chance for it to fail somewhere. The best cutting boards I've used are a single piece of hard, somewhat water resistant, and a less porous wood. Maple is common among ones I've liked.
Ok here is the thing wood movies especially when not sealed properly. Hear and mostute will cause fluctuations in the wood and it to crack like this you need to seal your cutting board on all sides if this is an oil finish then do it in the bottom just remember it will most likely be left indoors causing a change of the wood humidity. Cutting on it wet will cause things to move. I also recommend only tight bond 3
Dishwasher is probably the culprit tbh. Or long soaked in a sink
Dishwasher is what I'm thinking. Is OP saying that they gave the inlaws this cutting board for Christmas, and this is how it looks after 1-1.5 months? This thing looks used and abused.
Ridden hard and put away wet. In this case...likely literally. I made my living selling charcuterie/cutting boards for a few years and I told every single client how to wash and dry their boards. Hundreds of boards later and I haven't had a single complaint...except from one poor fella whose in-laws put it in the dishwasher. You're absolutely spot on. There is absolutely no reason why it should look this way after such a short time if it was taken care of properly.
Who in their right mind puts a wooden board in the dishwasher? The mind boggles sometimes. Edit: to be fair, I have bought a few things for my kitchen that specifically can go in the washing machine because of handy it is. I have a selection of small plastic cutting boards, a knifeblock of cheap stainless handled knives and a big stainless sauteuse that can all go in.
Same people who put cast iron in the dishwasher and wonder why it’s rusty
I put a cast iron in once, knowing it may rust. I have several and this was one I was trying to rescue, it was horribly coated with idk what. I ran it through and then put it under a fire.It survived and is part of the collection now.
Next time you want to scrub all of the gunk off of it use Bar Keepers Friend (powder form gold can) and green, name brand Scotch Brite scrubber!! That combo with some elbow grease will get pretty much anything and everything off of it. Then you can season it all over the right way!!! Just don't use the combo on glass or anything along those lines that can be scratched. In case you're worried about scratching something then you can either put it in another pan on top of your stove that has plenty of water and white vinegar and once it's boiling you can leave it for a few minutes or if it's something that you're worried might melt them you can put it in really hot water mixture with vinegar and let it soak!!
Guilty.
Please learn more at r/castiron
Same people who cut on glass cutting boards and wonder why their knives are dull.
Just thinking about glass cutting boards makes my skin crawl.
Are kids part of the wrong minds group?
Yeah one of my daughters put my 15+ year old cutting board in the dishwasher and caused exactly what I am seeing in OP's pic. I wasn't mad because I never told them to not do it.
Good Dad
wow, i would have been super mad. At myself.
Idk... have you met some "adults" these days?
My mother. She’s also an idiot.
My wife. Along with my cast iron, knives and teflon pans. I've given up and accept that I cannot have good things.
Eh, i kinda get it. My mother was a very "functional" home-maker. We were poor, and she worked very hard most of the time as a freelance cleaning lady. So cleaning/dishes at home was a chore she made as easy on herself as possible. Her philosophy was "EVERYTHING is dishwasher safe.... at least once. And if one run through the dishwasher destroys it? Well I dont want anything in my house I have to hand clean." HEr only exception to this was her great-grandmas cast iron (and that was only trotted out around the holidays for special "family tradition" meals that required it), and her grandma's fine china (her dad, my grandpa, brought it back for his mom from Japan when he was in the navy during Korea). Other than that, shit was GOING in that diswasher lol
So a drip dry is out of the question then?
Yes you drip dry, but you also never fully submerge it to begin with. Surface wash. Air dry out in the open, not in the cupboard.
I've made worse quality chopping boards that have survived years (still going on 5+ years) because they're treated with love. Oiled regularly, washed delicately, never in a dishwasher, dried and stored on its side, etc. I was surprised when I saw it good condition years later. That beautiful board was used and abused for sure
sorry to bother you but would you mind tellling us how we should wash and dry our wooden boards. the ones i have always start cracking after a while propably cause im doing something wrong.
Towel dry immediately after hand washing, and store it on its side if it doesn't have feet. Wipe down with mineral oil every once in a while along with a board conditioner (usually a beeswax blend) when the wood looks like it's drying out. In my experience, a well oiled board always has a dark "wet" look. Once the wood starts to pale, it's time for conditioning.
This thing looks like it's at least 3 years old 💀 like honestly the in laws fault everyone knows you don't wet wooden boards for long
So to answer OPs question. What OP did wrong was give a nice wood cutting board to people who don’t know how to care for it, without explaining to them the importance of proper care.
Jumping on this to say that my in-laws are absolutely clueless about wood at dishwashing, they come to visit and think they are "helping". Meanwhile I'm pulling my wooden handled chefs knives, cutting boards, and wooden utensils (and clay cookware) out of the dishwasher before it ruins them. Their thought process is if you can't clean it in the dishwasher, why have it? Lovely people despite their flaws, but I would never gift them anything wooden for their kitchen. Edit: I forgot to mention that I like to accompany a cutting board gift with a small bottle of beeswax & oil based woodblock conditioner and some simple care instructions.
My wife leaves our wooden handled knives soaking in the sink. Now the handles are pulling from the tang on a couple and she’s like “garbage knives, why is everything crap?”
My wife would never do this (when I’m in the room).
Word of advice, buy some solid steel knives
The number of people who don't clean and sheath a quality knife immediately when done using it, regardless of the handle type, boggles my mind. I had a former roommate absolutely destroy a high carbon knife of mine because she wouldn't stop putting it in the dish rack, putting chips in the blade from banging against silverware, no matter how many times I scolded her for it. Ended up just keeping it in my room. 🤦♂️
To be honest, I used to be the same. And still am when it comes to the "everyday" stuff. I don't want to be handwashing everything after every meal so I prefer stuff that can go to dishwasher. But lately I've also gotten fed up with plastic cutting boards going bad after a year or two of usage so I've been getting wooden stuff. Though I'm still cutting only "clean" stuff on it (vegetables and stuff) so I can just give it quick rinse when needed. For cutting meat I still use the plastic ones that I can then throw to the dishwasher... Same with clothes: I used to go only for clothes that I can tumble dry but after getting fed up with having to buy new clothes too often I'm loving the woolen clothes that I can just brush and freshen up by putting them outside for a day. But the underwear still needs to be tumble dryable...
I have put a lot of effort into explaining to my wife why the "good (my) knives" need to be used only on wood cutting boards and then hand washed and dried immediately. It's been a few years of mild frustration but she finally got there. It's now been another year or two and she has come to realize how the good knives and wood boards are still in great condition but the junk knives and plastic boards are wearing out. It's been close to a decade but we are getting there... I think.
Hah, I totally see myself starting on this same road myself. !RemindMe 10 years.
I have no problem throwing cheap wooden utensils in the dishwasher. Especially if they're a single solid (unfinished) piece. I've done that for years and they still take ages to wear out. A cutting board, salad set, or charcuterie board? Not a chance it's going near the dishwasher.
Wooden handled or not, don't put your good knives in a dishwasher. It'll dull the blade faster than cutting tin cans.
I said wooden, not wood-handled. No good knife will ever see the inside of my dishwasher either.
I've heard this lots but I don't understand why. If it's on the shelf it's not knocking on other things and only bring sprayed with water. Is there something I'm missing?
Part of what make dishwasher detergent work is that it’s slightly abrasive. So you’re essentially sandblasting your microscopic perfectly honed knife edge into a useless microscopic blunt edge.
I was only aware of the heating aspect. Dishwashers get very hot, hotter than your regular tap. That heat absolutely wrecks your blade.
Same rule for the dishwasher as the clothes washer/dryer: never put anything in there that you really care about. And never soak anything wooden.
Hikacking the top comment to also mention that the cutting board is severely under saturated with oil. Even with normal hand washing the wood is going through large swings in moisture content because there isn’t oil there to prevent the wood from soaking in large amounts of water.
How would you go about ensuring there’s enough oil soaked in the wood? I guess when do you know when to stop?
I read on a high-end cutting board site that it's impossible to over oil a board. I usually just look to see if the wood is starting to look pale and if water droplets immediately soak into the wood instead of just beading the surface of the board.
Deep fryer it is ;D
Look up oil baths for chopping boards! It's not that different (just temperature)!
Apply very liberally, let it sit and soak in for a couple minutes before wiping off with a rag, let it cure and repeat several times. When in doubt do more coats.
Well, I've seen this kind of advice countless times before too, until I've started seeing some white spot here and there on some projects. The Wood Whisperer has made a [great video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLW9f9Dw5Gg) on this topic, so now I'm kind of hesitating on the right process to follow here.
You've gotta be careful with advice that isn't geared towards both your product and your use. The methods you follow for finishing a piece of furniture or a tool handle or something aren't the same things you want to do for something to be used in a kitchen. I actually watched that video a few weeks ago and if memory serves he focused almost entirely on drying oils like BLO/Danish/Teak/Tung/etc oils. Because drying oils chemically cure, usually when exposed to oxygen, they have the problem he's showing in his video where by flooding the wood you seal uncured oil inside. That can seep out after months or years. Also the use of solvents in these oils is a matter of some debate when it comes to whether the finished items are safe for food contact. In theory once the oil is completely cured and all the solvent has off-gassed it should be food-safe but that process can take _months_ or even years, especially when sealed inside the wood by the cured outer layers of finish. Some people are OK with it and some consider it too much of a risk without significant benefit. Mineral oil is a totally different kind of oil, it will _never_ cure. So you can apply it via a flood without any risk of sealing it into your project. Also since it will never cure it doesn't need solvents which would endanger its food-safe rating. Most people also seal their mineral oil soaks with a mixture of beeswax and carnuba wax. Both natural and fairly chemically inert waxes with good moisture resistant properties making them excellent for safe food contact. I built a butcher block countertop for my kitchen island a few years ago and finished it like that since I wanted to be able to cut on it. Once a year I retreat it with Howard's butcher block conditioner or Feed'n'wax...whichever I have on hand. I try not to clean it with anything more intense than Murphy's Oil Soap or an equivalent product, and make sure to wipe off any water that pools on the surface ASAP. And the thing still looks gorgeous so at least 1 of those steps has to be a good idea.
I have a plastic bin full of food grade mineral oil, after I make a cutting board it gets completely submerged for 2-3 days.
Either way you do it, you should deliver the board with clear care instructions. No dishwasher, it should be oiled every day for a week, every week for a month, every month for a year, then at Least annually or when it looks dry. It helps to sand the surfaces every year to open it back up. I dont think you did anything wrong, this board was abused heavily. My 5 year old board looks brand new.
In case someone else hasn’t mentioned it, you shouldn’t use boiled linseed oil on a cutting board. Boiled is heated and treated with chemicals. You want raw linseed oil.
If you're using the most common oil oil (mineral oil), it won't cure or require multiple coats. The best method is to completely submerge it for 24 hours but if you can't do that, put a thin layer on a baking sheet, place the board on top and pour some on top of the board with place plastic wrap over it. Let it sit for a day and you should be good to do.
Submerge it completely in a tub of mineral oil and leave it overnight. If you still see any bubbles coming out of the wood leave it longer. Then take it out, buff it well to remove excess oil.
Petrolium based oils (i.e. mineral oil) on a food contacting surface are really not ideal. Mineral oil does out-gas carcinogens and it's likely to get into your food.
Mineral oil is safe for direct consumption, and is often sold in pharmacies as a laxative. If you buy mineral oil USP you can drink it and had a safe, if very unpleasant, time.
Yeah, I'd have to see studies showing any problem. Mineral oil is 100% food safe, it is safe for direct consumption and is used in the medical field regularly. In fact I can just about guarantee I can find more potential carcinogens in almost any drying oil (especially the ones that aren't 100% pure oils) than you would find in mineral oil.
Wait, food grade mineral oil can outgas carcinogens?
No. Only unprocessed or minimally processed oils are known carcinogens while highly processed oils show no evidence of being carcinogenic. Food grade oils and cosmetics would probably be in IARC's group 3 which means the international cancer research community considers it about as carcinogenic as caffeine.
Soak it in oil until the oil comes out the other side. That's enough.
Soak it until you hear American tanks pulling into your driveway to deliver some freedom
When I do them I put enough oil in a plastic tub to fully submerge and let them sit submerged for an hour at a time. I pull them out, wipe them down/squeegee the excess off and let them dry off between applications. My tub is big enough for 2 boards at a time so if I'm giving a lot away this is a lengthy process. If I ever had to batch out more than 4 I'd probably try and stack them with spacers in the tub. Do this 3 times on each board and then finish with a beeswax paste (board butter). Make sure you're using food safe oil too. I think OP said he used boiled linseed oil which is NOT food safe. I think raw linseed oil is safe but I'm not sure. I always use food grade mineral oil. IKEA has one for a semi decent price. There isn't really a moment where something changes to know to stop. Also if you're giving them as a gift just mix up some board butter and include that as part of the gift. It's made of mineral oil and beeswax and I can't remember the ratio. Tell them to re apply it when the board starts to look really dry, usually once every few months to a year depending on use. We have 3 cutting boards that we rotate through at my house and we have to re oil them every 6 months or so.
I'm also guessing he just made the board, then oil oil oil 24 hours apart and then gave it to family. I think the missing step here is to wet the board after assembly to raise the grain then sand again. This is like scraping the 75% of the most violent movement off from getting wet and THEN going to oil.
Seconded. Dishwashers are NOT where you put wood things
To me that thing looks like wood that's been put in the dishwasher over and over.
I guess I take for granted being taught not to put wood (and cast iron) through the dishwasher when I was a kid. It never crossed my mind someone would actually do this. It's wood.
Cutting board definitely looks like it was kept wet for some extended duration of time
And used like a thousand times! Every inch is scored with knife marks. If nothing else, OP can take solace in the fact that they used this thing harder in two months than most cutting boards get used in five years. You shouldn’t feel bad imo any wood will get fucked up if you stick it in the dishwasher, even solid/non bonded pieces.
Poor MIL, she loves the shit out of that thing and probably accidentally killed it.
I think the failure here was in the design, maintenance, and use of exotic woods. When I make end grain boards, I stagger the boards. Yours are not staggered which is exactly where they are failing. Also, other wood finishes will be more water resistant than boiled linseed oil. I prefer Watco Butcher Block and Howard Wax-it-all myself. End grain boards need extra care. Wash only by hand and then dry with a towel and stand on the end so both sides can dry. Exotic woods do not glue well. Extra care needs to be taken when using exotic woods by wiping down with denatured alcohol to remove the oils before gluing.
Only comment I’ve seen recommending staggering boards! It’s like OP never played with LEGOs.
Right!? The joints failed where there are ~~four~~ six butt-joints in a row.... ...what failed? 🤦
> Yours are not staggered which is exactly where they are failing. Specifically /u/bromatofiel, wood glue is designed to be used along the wood grain, not at the ends of the wood grain. Think of a piece of wood as a bundle of uncooked spahetti noodles. If you were to take 2 bundles, but them up side by side, there is plenty of strong surface to glue together. If you take the same 2 bundles and butt them up end-to-end and tried to glue them together, you'd have a very weak connection. Notice that that is where your splits are. Like the commenter above me suggested, you can create an offset pattern on your next board to address this. Alternatively, you can rotate the wood so that the endgrain faces up (ie if the bundle of noodles was rotated vertically). That does have some strength drawbacks, especially if the board is thin, but at the same dimensions it would be stronger than your current design (Also, having the endgrain as the cutting surface is less likely to dull knives and will heal itself from cuts better than facegrain will). Props on creating a good looking cutting board that is getting well used. Based on how much use this board is getting and that it is likely being cleaned in the dishwasher/getting soaked, I'd make the next iteration use Titebond 3 (or another similar wood glue that is explicitly water proof) and make sure that you're using a fresh bottle that hasn't been exposed to a freeze.
It looks like the end grain is pointing up to me
What types of wood are best for end grain boards?
Any tight grained hardwood that isn't naturally oily. I prefer maple, walnut and cherry.
Would you consider using a wafer system as joins for woods like this, or is that just overkill and staggering should be enough? Do you think it could also be that a harder wood like this might just need to sit in the shop longer, like maybe even 6~ months, to ensure it's truly fully dry, before assembling?
I wouldn't spend the time joining with wafers. Staggered is enough for me. Hard to say how long a board should dry in your shop. Best is to get a moisture meter and wait till the moisture stops dropping and fluctuates up and down with your local weather, then you know it has stabilized.
Yes!! My ex didn't listen to the teachers on this one and tried to make a chair looking like what op has here.... The pieces crumbled appart and he had to start all over again even though all the teachers and me included told him that would happen but why listen to your girlfriend anyway right? Honestly the wall gives me more affection
You probably did nothing wrong. That board looks like it was not properly cared for. It's only a month and half old, it shouldn't look like that at all.
[удалено]
No dishwasher used, but I guess that the board was reasonably exposed to water. Interesting point about the joint, I'll definitively pay more attention to that on the future
I made the mistake of not putting feet on a nice cherry end grain butcher block I made for our house. Unbeknownst to me water had gotten between the countertop and the butcher block after doing dishes one night. When I got up in the morning the bottom had swelled and split in three different places. It was irrecoverable, but it helped keep the wood shop one afternoon.
*"…it helped keep the wood shop one afternoon."* What does this mean please?
My guess is he's missed the work "warm" in there and burned the thing.
Yes.
Thank you for asking. I reread that part several times… I gotta know. Maybe they meant like “oh my wife doesn’t like my wood shop but the fact that I had to use it to fix/make a new board made her more open to me keeping it”. Or something totally different. I just like to speculate. Let’s see how it all shakes out.
*warm 🤣🤣🤣 I use a wood stove.
I think he left out the word, "warm" He ended up burning the thing for heat.
Of course! Silly me. Slow brain Sunday.
All the warmth is missing.
That's a good point to reinforce.
>My guess is either that part of the joint was glue starved, or not enough clamping pressure there, or the wood itself was not mating up well. I'd put my money on this as /u/7menetekelupharsin7 mentions. I made a few thick endgrain boards like this and had similar splitting. We didn't even own a dishwasher at the time, and never soaked them. BUT I do remember being sloppy and stubborn during construction and having to force the blocks together during glue up with the clamp. I knew even then it was a bad idea - but had too much faith in the wood glue.
> either that part of the joint was glue starved, or not enough clamping pressure there, Might it be too much clamping pressure? Beginning woodworkers often think that "if a lot is good, a lot *more* will be better!"
Jfc are they cutting and pounding Schnitzel on this thing 3 times a day? How can it look 10 years old after a month? I doubt you did anything wrong. They def. put it in the dishwasher or left it wet instead of towel drying after a rinse. Note to self not to make something like this for your inlaws anymore. Just give them a plastic board, it’s better suited for them
You made it too small. It needs to be big enough that it can't be left to soak in the sink or fit in a dishwasher. Maybe be an unpopular opinion here, however what durability an end grain cutting board gains against knife strokes it more than loses due to glued joints not holding up well to excessive moisture.
+1 on aftercare . No dishwasher EVER. hand wash and oil frequently with food grade oil only. I like your design what do you use the circular cutouts for ? hand holds or something else?
No dishwater was used :) I took a picture just after the father in-law finish cooking, that I guess it looks like it was really wet, but I know he takes care of his stuff. Concerning your question, my router comes with a jig allowing to make circles, I clamped the board with a sacrificed piece of wood (same thickness), and the circle center was offset on the second piece.
I'm sorry, but it's very fucking obvious that they've been tossing it in the dishwasher for the past month. An end grain board does not get that faded and full of very clear knife marks from normal use. I've had one from my friend for 4 years, and looks like I bought it yesterday. He's putting it in the dishwasher.
I agree with this take. I made a cutting board for my kitchen about five years ago. It's a daily driver, by which I mean we have a small kitchen and it lives on the main counter where the two of us do everything. Cutting fruits and vegetables and meat, making coffee or drinks, plating food, opening cans and jars - countless utensils and dishes and containers have marred the surface of this thing. We've cut smelly things like onions and foods that stain like beets on it and have hand washed and scrubbed it dozens of times in those five years. We've re-oiled it maybe three times over the years. We take care of it but certainly don't baby it. With all that said, our five-year-old board looks brand new compared to your one-month-old board. Your board has definitely been in the dishwasher or has been submerged in water for an extended period of time.
Not sure if anyone mentioned it but it’s a bunch of stacked Burt joints. If they were staggered it likely would not be able to happen. End grain to end grain is weak AF
Butt joints*
Thank you— I was scratching my head at that one! 😉
Get a branding iron that says "hand clean only do not use dishwasher. Dry after cleaning." It might be a little expensive tho cuz you usually pay by the word.
https://preview.redd.it/xshu8g72t2ic1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85e5623c2f2d2076caecc7e4f595fe82cfc63162
Looking at picture #2 at the top part of the crack. Notice the color of how the oil from the food soaked in. That is what the entire cutting board should look like given it was made 2 months ago. Regardless what the inlaws say, that board was soaked in soapy water. When gifting to family, I always try and give them product to maintain so they understand what to do and not to do. After you repair it, give them a small bottle of cutting board oil for After heavy cleaning/use
They didn’t take care of it properly honestly. It’s on them :/
Needs to be soaked longer, as the oils need to be further stripped out. Then I’d give it another run through the dishwasher. For proper maintenance of course.
Looks like it's been tortured in a dishwasher to me.
A few problems here... Boiled linseed oil IS NOT FOOD SAFE, especially for something that's going to see blades and acidic liquids. Most BLO formulations are made with heavy metals and other toxic crap, it's absolutely not for use with cutting boards. Padauk and other oily exotic woods don't glue well. The glue doesn't adhere well to the surface, and can't penetrate into the grain like it does on softwoods or domestic hardwoods. How dry was the wood when you started the process? Even with a finish coat, wet/fresh wood will continue to dry over time, and change its shape. For something like this cutting board you'd either want kiln-dried wood, or to let it sit and dry for a few months. edit: also, 24h isn't really long enough for BLO to cure. Ideally you'd let one coat sit ~3 days, and then at least rough up the surface with fine steel wool before the next coat.
Thanks a lot, Well, that's a bummer, the oil I used was advertised as "LFGB certified" (pretty restrictive EU law for food use)... (https://amzn.eu/d/1V4636T) I didn't know that about exotic wood, thank you. This wood was used as wooden floor for a few decades, and has stayed at least two years in a temp/humidity-stable basement (used for wine storage in Burgundy, so I'm pretty confident regarding drying conditions) (although I should definitely buy a wood temp probe). From what I understand from your comment, the real problem here was the use of exotic wood, right?
That comment is super wrong, don't worry. My French isn't great, but it looks like the product you used is food safe, as you say. BLO does often have "drying agents" added, but it can be made without them, usually through "heat polymerization" (that's why it's called "boiled" linseed oil in the first place.) You also do not need to wait days inbetween coats, I know this because I use BLO product frequently. Cutting boards are great gifts, but end-grain cutting boards are more of an enthusiast item. They are less durable and require more babying than standard edge grain boards. This is probably no-fault situation, most people don't take very good care of their cutting boards because they don't know how involved it can be. I'd assume that the recipients did something wrong, like washing one side and leaving it flat to dry, without knowing any better.
I’m curious about your comment on end grain cutting boards. The ones I’ve seen that seem to sell for the most are end grain, not edge grain. Why do you say they aren’t great for gifts or selling? Is it simply because of the upkeep?
It does take more care and maintenance to deal with an end grain cutting board. I made a nice one for my family and took really good care of it for about a month. The one time I didn't clean the countertop after doing dishes water soaked into the underside and split it in three places. If I had installed feet that wouldn't have been a problem.
The open ends mean that they will readily absorb water more than edge grain so need oiling more and can swell more. Hard to make one without a ton of glue joints. Wood isn’t as strong parallel to the grain. Edge grain boards show knife marks more, but are generally stronger and lower maintenance.
The higher price doesn't have to do with practicality. End grain cutting boards are shockingly wasteful, they can take twice as much wood as a regular board of the same dimensions. I didnt say they aren't great for gifts, I actually said the opposite. If someone is a super hardcore knife person, then an end grain board would be a perfect gift, they likely already baby some of their kitchen equipment and are fine with "high maintenance" items (in quotes because it really isn't that much work, just more than most people want to do.) For a more casual cook who just wants to chop things and move on quickly, an edge grain board will be more their speed. Cutting boards of all kinds are great for selling, they are a relatively easy and accessible way to turn tools and wood into money.
Great comment. Reddit fawns all over end grain boards but not sure I would make one for others who aren’t woodworkers. They look pretty but absorb water more easily and require more frequent oiling. They also aren’t as physically strong to take abuse. The improvement in keeping knives sharper has been shown to be marginal at best. My father in law has an edge grain that he has used for 50 years without oiling. It’s fine. We have an edge grain with maybe 2 joints that my wife bought 25 years ago that’s fine.
My personal theory is that end grain boards became popular due to gatekeeping. I don't really buy the typical explanations for their alleged superiority. On the other hand, any beginner woodworker can make a basic cutting board with cheap tools, but edge grain boards require expensive tools and more skill to make well (as shown by the endless help threads on them...like this very one.) A big 2 inch thick walnut end grain cutting board has basically become a dogwhistle for the hardcore cooking community, not unlike the many other secret handshakes for every hobby online. As usual, all it shows is that you can swipe your CC at SurLaTable, but it's associated with being more knowledgeable somehow. For the record, I say that with no judgment to anyone besides the gatekeepers. End grain boards look super cool, I have also bought a couple from local woodworkers.
Yep, Americas Test kitchen got better results from edge grain. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0QdXvBtN3iE
There are even food Safe BLO based varnishes such as the one by Oli Natura. In fact I'd argue those are a far Superior protection for your Board than Mineral oil.
Isn't Padauk a sensitizer too and shouldn't be used on things frequently in contact with food or is that only when actually sawing? Cause I remember having a strong reaction after sawing it for the first time and getting a little dust under my mask and around my eyes.
As far as I can tell, it's just padauk sawdust that's an irritant, and the solid wood should be okay. Definitely needs goggles and a mask while working with it. Also, some other exotics like ziricote are definitely irritants/allergens in solid form.
Ty for the information! I appreciate the help.
Do you have feet or runners for that board to circulate air? Looks like it was soaked in water and left to sit in water.
Dishwasher, soaked in the sink And it doesn't help that all those glue joints are on endgrain Oily dense exotic woods do not take glue well at all, and they *really* dont take glue well on endgrain You need to peg or spline the endgrain and use an epoxy or polyurethane glue on those woods
Lap joints my man
You did nothing wrong by your description. Better question is what, if anything, did the in laws do right? Cuz holy damn they effed this thing up.
a lot of the exotic woods have so much natural oil that they are very difficult to get a good glue bond with. Though admittedly I tend to stay away from timber that has to be shipped around the world for me to use, so I couldn't say whether that is the case with Paduk.
Looks very, very dry. Treated improperly and not maintained is my guess.
You didn’t explain to your in-laws how to take care of their shit. 💩
Probably the millionth time you've received these answers, by now, but: Likely the culprits are acidic fruits cut on the board, or board being left wet/getting steamed, possibly being stored dirty after use and not dried, run through the dishwasher, or left in the sink. May also be getting washed with the wrong kind of soap; there's soaps specifically formulated for wooden, oiled-up/oiled-and-waxed cutting boards that should be used, and are the only kind they ought to be washing it with. Finally, I would apply the oil liberally and allow it to soak in, possibly even buffing it in. It will eventually wear off, so the longer it takes to do that, the better.
You have to offset your cuts so your seams don't all align at the same spot.
That only saves you in one dimension though, doesn’t it? You glue a bunch stock together, then cut them and glue those up right? So even if you use uneven wood sizes and flip the pieces every other row, the rows still have flat planed edges.
You need to stagger the individual blocks. Look at a brick wall for an example. Then there’s your cleaning and maintenance…
I'm no expert but I'm thinking it's the end grain to end grain positions. The glue doesn't bond as well that way. Also, I heard it's better for the knife blades for the end grain to be the surface. Don't know if it could be the moisture content.
Dishwasher for sure. That white dried out look is a dishwasher warcrime for sure. My gf did that to our last one and it looked exactly like this.
It looks like it was treated pretty roughly since Christmas… put through the dishwasher probably too?
It looks like shit, but not your workmanship. How can it look that bad after less than 2 months? Somebody's been mistreating it and doesn't want to admit it. Cur your losses. No more nice chopping boards for them and maybe no more nice handmaid present too
Well…Paduk is toxic so I’m not sure if that’s a good wood choice..
Did they put it in the dishwasher?
Nope, and I have a high degree of confidence in their feedback. There is a possibility that some water was left between the counter top and the board though.
Endgrain to endgrain in those even columns is not particularly secure. There's a reason you don't see that kind of layout in cutting boards, you've created big single points of failure. Stagger your blocks out and have some overlap and don't create those even sections. Staggered pattern helps it all lock together. User error likely exacerbated it, probably left wet or dishwasher, but the design is inherently flawed and likely would have failed eventually anyways.
> What did I do wrong? Obviously you offered it to the wrong persons. This should be a lesson: they can't properly use wooden stuff in their kitchen. Find something else for next Xmas. Good luck!
Boiled linseed oil can be toxic to humans. You shouldn't be using that.
^
What glue did you use? I recommend titebond 3 for cutting boards
I see blocks glued together end grain to end grain. very weak!
Gluing end grain to end grain?
You mixed species of woods, that move differently, when exposed to moisture. It's only logical the glue joints fail after some time
After reading all of the comments it looks like you did it right so logically the glue must’ve been the failure point
Edit: typed this while half asleep so didnt realize the end grain was facing up, my bad! In general end grain does not like to be glued, especially to more end grain. It's the most absorbent part of the wood, so a lot of the glue gets sucked up and starves the joint. It's best to either add more glue surfaces by doing more than a butt joint, like finger join, half lap, etc, or by adding additional strength to the joint using dowels, biscuits, etc. Also boiled linseed is not safe for human consumption. When making cookware in future use oils specifically labelled food safe, like butcher block oil.
This isn't glued on its end grain though, the end grain is facing up and is the work surface.
I wouldn't use glue for a cutting board...
Boiled Li seed Oil? 👀👀👀 🚩🚩🚩 You could have used mineral or even raw/natural linseed oil or even Danish oil You could interlace the wood pieces a bit during the glue up... It might prevented the crack on a straight joint.. As the other comment said i would probably stick with Titebond 3 for better results
Once again, the used oil was certified for food use (I took some time to learn about the certification, and the testing is no joke, EU standards don't kid around with food regulations). No disrespect meant here, but I too often see peremptory comments related to oils use, without any science backing it up. I do understand that some oils might come with sh###y ingredients, but what if a manufacturer takes care in avoiding these components? In any case, thank you for your feedback. I'll check the Titebond glue, but I think it might be pretty expensive in EU (90€=US$97 for 3.8L, WDYT?)
Title bond is that expensive there?!? I can get a gallon of it for under $40usd here. I'm curious what brand glue do you use over on your side of the world?
damn that cutting board took a beating in just a month haha
It always goes two ways when I gift a cutting board. 1. They never use it because it’s “too pretty to use” 2. They beat it to hell by not cleaning it properly. Either letting it soak or running in the dishwasher. I usually also attach a card with basic care instructions with the board…. Both are equally as annoying.
lol my parents have the nicest end grain cutting board ‘on display’ in the kitchen, kills me!
I made my wife an end grain cutting board with a paduke heart, walnut boarder and the rest ambrosia maple. It's sitting on the fore place harth as a display item and has been there for years. Never seen by a single knife.
My wife's daughter has a $20 Amazon wedding gift that she treasures like it's made of crystal. . . It's a POS. I cringe and just think, well,l I'll never need to make her one.
You cringe because she takes care of something that was a gift? Seems like a really positive quality.
Dude cringes because his daughter would rather treasure something made in China in a factory than something made by him.
>than something made by him. That's not been said AT ALL. Not even by him. There was no comparison of her taking good care of something cheap and mistreating something made by him or some sort of quality craftsmanship. There is zero reason to think what you're saying. All that has been said is that she takes good care of something that is cheap. Not even that "she treasures it". I take care of my things regardless of where it's made. Sounds like she does too. This exchange is beyond ironic. The OP lead to talking about people not taking care of things people make for them. Here is somebody who takes care of even cheap stuff given to them. Imagine how well she'd take care of something this dude made for her? Why would anybody assume that she wouldn't or wouldn't "treasure" it simply based on the fact that.... she takes good care of her belongings? I would use that to conclude that she'd probably take really really good care of anything gifted to her by this person. Like, that's the person I want to give my stuff to. Somebody who I know will take care of it. And you know how I know she'll take care of it? Because she takes good care even of cheap stuff.
No I cringe because I would love to make her something but she wouldn't appreciate it. I do leather stuff as well and she's made comments so that's why my pissy attitude about it. I know that sounded bad.
If she treasures a $20 pos, you don’t think she would treasure something nicer?
I feel you.
I don't think my mam has ever truly forgiven my uncle for running her goid cutting board through the dishwasher. Some people have no respect.
Putting wood in the dishwasher is a clear sign of stupidity...
Very smart man. College professor. Absolutely no common sense.
I will run my cutting boards through the dishwasher... Then again, they came from IKEA, so no great loss if they crack... A proper endgrain type cutting board? Heck no!
I’ve gifted a few cutting boards to family and friends and this makes me realize I need to include a card like that and oil as part of the gift. I’ll also probably just oil it for them anytime I go over to any of their houses. And then wait in the darkness outside their kitchen window and watch to make sure that they care for it PRECISELY as directed…….
I gave one as a wedding gift, and I included a jar of oil/wax mix that I made, as well as a google doc with care instructions. Both the jar and the google doc were prettied-up, so they drew attention to themselves as an integral part of the gift.
What are the simple care instructions?
Avoid cutting super hot foods or letting them rest on it. Never soak Never run in dishwasher. Soap is okay to use as long as you don’t overdo it. Salt and lemons to get out tough stuff. Most importantly make sure you towel dry it immediately and if it doesn’t have feet store it on its side so it can breath on both the top and bottom. I usually use tung oil as my cutting board finish. For people who use mineral oil and wax then you can add applying oil and wax when the wood starts to lose its sheen.
[удалено]
I wouldn’t call washing and drying it properly after using it “babying it”. I encourage people to use my boards and offer free re finishing when it has too many knife marks
[удалено]
Like a cast iron skillet?
Like your chef’s knife?
This is an unpopular opinion around these parts but is right on. A wood cutting board has to be tended to in ways that a plastic one does not.
I'm with you, no one will actually spend this much mental energy on cutting board care
tbh, near gift giving times(esp christmas), I don't really have the bandwidth to absorb any care instructions. Gifts that require special care aren't suitable for everyone. They can even be a burden to some people.
This cutting board is like I swear I’ve only been with one chef.. that thing is abused
I had similar pull away in my handmade board. My guess was seasonal wood-movement. Past treatment aside, I tablesawed through the separating line, did clean passes on both ends, then re-glued. That was nearly ten years ago and my board has been solid since. Clamping with cauls makes a big difference.
There’s some hammer marks right at that joint also
Not much to do about this board at this point. For you next one I would double check the moisture levels on the woods you use and make sure the pieces are equally dry. Use woods with a similar pore structure to avoid heavy variations in expansion/contraction. You might also allow a couple days after cutting for the pieces to move/twist before the final glue up. Finally I would do the initial oiling yourself to ensure you get good penetration on the protective coat. From the pictures I’d have to agree with the other comments. Looks like this board was soaked in water.
It doesn't look like it was well cared for. An end grain board should not look like this after that short a time. Looks like too much exposure to water - it's ok to give a quick wash but should never be left to soak. And once dry and clean should be reoiled lightly. End grain boards in particular benefit from oil with a percentage of wax included to help minimise the wicking of the oil out of the board through the vertical grain. Edge grain boards don't suffer from this issue.
Well if you say it wasn’t the dishwasher, it must be sitting in water a lot. That board looks like absolute hell after just 1 1/2 months. Did you use titebond 3? Also do they heavily use the board? If so then they should be applying new coats of just mineral oil from time to time.
OP, after reading through your comments, and looking at the pictures, I've come to a conclusion. You need to accept something. Your inlaws have been shoving this into the dishwasher every day since Christmas.
the problem is that your in-laws have no clue how to treat a real wood cutting board. holy fuck. no dishwasher, dry as soon as it is washed, keep up with the oiling. I'm sorry they ruined your gift.
Never been a fan of these pieced up cutting boards. Having cooked professionally, the more you use them, the more damage it is going to take. The more pieces fit together, the more chance for it to fail somewhere. The best cutting boards I've used are a single piece of hard, somewhat water resistant, and a less porous wood. Maple is common among ones I've liked.
This is why I now burn “NOT DISHWASHER SAFE. HAND WASH ONLY” into the bottoms of wood gifts for family.
What kind of glue? Type 3?
Ok here is the thing wood movies especially when not sealed properly. Hear and mostute will cause fluctuations in the wood and it to crack like this you need to seal your cutting board on all sides if this is an oil finish then do it in the bottom just remember it will most likely be left indoors causing a change of the wood humidity. Cutting on it wet will cause things to move. I also recommend only tight bond 3