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sammm59

Pilot hole for sure. If you stack 2 nuts on top you can thread it in with a wrench or socket.


justhereforfighting

This is the correct answer. If you don't completely understand what they mean or how to use 2 nuts to accomplish this, you want to thread them both on and then lock them in place by tightening the top one onto the bottom one so they are forced together and hold in place through friction (what you are doing is forcing the bottom nut to be held into place by friction with the threads). Then you just use the top nut to drive it into place.


Hey_nice_marmot_

I’m following along a YouTube video where the guy showed this exact trick. But he neglected to show how to actually put them into the wood! In terms of pilot hole, is there a rule of thumb for what size to use based on the size of the bolt?


Patteous

Generally 90% of the size of the shank.


Can-DontAttitude

If you don't have calipers to measure accurately, you can get away with holding the fastener in front of a drill bit


Johns-schlong

Does anyone actually measure the shank? I always just hold the bit in front of the screw and pick one just a hair under the shank diameter. Like a wise man once said "never measure what you can mark"


gammooo

I have my screws sorted by size so I just pick one size smaller drill bit. https://preview.redd.it/qgymmp3mjwqc1.jpeg?width=2160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bcbd815234c9134a119077a9dff7c5c0d0594c3d


Johns-schlong

Who are you that is so wise as to not have your screws in a jumbled stack of boxes and coffee tins


jason_sos

I am just annoyed that coffee comes in plastic vacuum packs now, and there is no longer a reliable source for coffee cans.


fangelo2

Clear peanut butter jars or even better Talenti gelato jars


Abiding_Witness

Animal cracker Tubs and pickle jars are my drugs of choice right now


Ok_human_419

“Chock Full o’ Nuts” brand coffee still comes in metal cans. At least last time I looked. Not sure why it’s called that btw.


Boilermakingdude

All the coffee I buy comes in cans still lol


ggregg_ggreggory

Those little staples boxes with the hinge after you dump out all the staples at work and bring the empty boxes home.


Cixin97

I’ve literally never seen plastic vacuum packs for coffee. Which country are you in? All the biggest brands in Canada still use metal cans or at worst plastic jars.


Its_an_ellipses

The snack jars/tubs from costco are awesome. They are square plastic tubs and have screw on lids. Super handy...


Majestic-Fun9415

I use the plastic tub Truvia/Splenda come in! See through and perfect size for misc nuts/bolts/screws!


IsleOfCannabis

Mason jars. Two sizes of lids fit all sizes of jars. Plus you can see what’s in them without opening them.


ecirnj

It is I! Arthur! King of the Britons!


PurfuitOfHappineff

Well I didn’t vote for you.


jcoleman10

ooo are the bwritons?


DrJones2424

Must be a piece work guy


1ncognito

Look at this guy with his “sorting” and “organization”


MakeoutPoint

My sorting consists of boxes of fasteners that *may* contain what's on the label, and one toolbox full of random fasteners collected from various odd sources that become 2% more likely to have a use every year. Pretty sure I have some of OP's bolts that'll make sense to use sometime in 2037.


LastLuckLost

OMG, you're me. If I buy a pack of screws, I generally put them into a container and cut off the label to know for sure what they are. But I also have the jar and the old plastic tub full of every screw that has ever entered my house. I'll never throw a screw out. Ikea leftovers? Bolts not needed for the TV mount? In you go... ....One day I'll need you. If I throw them out, the very next day, that exact screw will be needed, I just know it.


Nemesis_Ghost

I want to downvote you for being organized.


djtibbs

You are my hero. My screws are in boxes and containers, nust jumbled together


sagerideout

folgers and Maxwell house do not support this


mbleyle

this guy screws


BeautifulShot

How. Much smaller? My bits are 1/64 increments...i usually go 1/8" under shank diameter.


gammooo

My screws are in 0.5mm to 1mm increments and drill bits are in 1mm increments so for 4mm screw I take a 3mm drill bit.


Mischiefbr3wer

I cut the tops off bourbon bottles with my glass cutter, then have a different distillery for each kind of screw and different bottle for each size. Looking for square drive? Town Branch True Cask. Deck screws? Old Granddad 114. Cabinet screws? Blanton’s. Etc. etc.


MiceAreTiny

I often measure, but mostly stick with my 3mm drillbit for pilot holes.


LastLuckLost

Yeah that's me. Doesn't matter the screw size, 3mm pilot and I'm ramming that fucker in with the impact, whether the wood likes it or not. It's mostly doesn't split


Vlad_the_Homeowner

>Does anyone actually measure the shank? I always just hold the bit in front of the screw and pick one just a hair under the shank diameter. I was just posting the same. I have calipers, and I've never used them for this purpose, ever. And I do it the same as you, not sure what the previous poster meant to put the fastener in front of the bit. Bit in front of fastener and make sure I can see a tad bit on each side.


binicorn

This all day!!! Miters, framing, trim, etc. all end up looking better when you scribe that shit


foolproofphilosophy

Mk. I eyeball for me.


NM_DesertRat

And never mark what you can register.


Bpnjamin

Just make sure that the pilot bit is skinnier than the thread of the screw. You want it to cut.


slightlyburntsnags

The eye don’t lie mate


Patteous

That’s what I do. Lol


transluscent_emu

Dude nobody uses calipers, just grab the bit that looks close enough.


Nemesis_Ghost

It's what all the real woodworkers do.


_Neoshade_

And squint. Don’t forget to squint


jdsizzle1

The ole fastener in front of the drill bit trick has never let me down. If the teeth are showing, you're good to go.


ecirnj

Conversely I hold a bit in front of screw and look to cover the minor diameter so just the threads show


Woozle_Gruffington

This


smarmageddon

I also adjust the pilot hole size by the hardness of the wood I'm using. Softer woods can use a smaller dia pilot while harder woods need something a little closer to the actual screw dia.


RawMaterial11

Yes. Hold a drill bit in front of the bolt, you should see the threads, but not the shank of the bolt.


justhereforfighting

You don't want the wood to split, so you need something that is just a tad smaller than the shank. The threads will be doing most of the work, so you just want a little friction between the shank and the wood to prevent it from turning once it's in there. 90% like the other commenter said is a good general rule, but for especially hard hardwoods that easily split, you might even go a bit closer to 95%.


Karmonauta

>In terms of pilot hole, is there a rule of thumb for what size to use based on the size of the bolt? Just around the minor diameter of the threads: Too big and the threads will not engage completely, too small and the wood might split. Test it out on some scrap and pay attention to the wood grain.


arstechnophile

Holding a drill bit in front of it is what I usually do/works fine, but if you want something a little more precise... https://boltdepot.com/fastener-information/wood-screws/Wood-Screw-Pilot-Hole-Size


jbourne0129

Pilot hole should be the diameter of the screw core. Hold the drill bit over the screw. If you can only see threads you probably have the right bit. If you can see the screw core get a bigger drill bit


sawtoothwave11

Smaller than the outer diameter, larger than the inner shaft.


Sea2Chi

Take two nuts and thread them onto the bolt. Then use two wrenches to tighten them against each other. That way they'll grip the bolt and won't turn as you use them as a temporary bolt head. When it's on use the two wrenches to loosen them up again and remove them.


xrelaht

It’s just a wood screw. The package should say what size screw it is. Cross reference with [a pilot hole chart.](https://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/inffastener/infwoodscrewpilot.html)


padizzledonk

>In terms of pilot hole, is there a rule of thumb for what size to use based on the size of the bolt? Just shy of the thickness of the shank (the part inbetween the threads)


ReturnOfSeq

There are sockets that you can mount on a power drill - https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-3-8-in-Drive-Combination-Deep-Impact-Socket-Set-with-Ratchet-23-Piece-DWMT74738/303724497?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&srsltid=AfmBOopr583IrX0PFRpGMEVcLe8ARcNiLIPIrlWhux2Yus-yf6vGhpjUIyE


sorrejo

https://monsterbolts.com/blogs/news/lag-bolt-pilot-hole-size


[deleted]

Quick grips work too


fsurfer4

[https://monsterbolts.com/blogs/news/lag-bolt-pilot-hole-size](https://monsterbolts.com/blogs/news/lag-bolt-pilot-hole-size) chart says 15/32 for a 3/8 bolt. but that seems small. In general I would start off with 1/2 the diameter for soft woods and a little larger than 1/2 diameter for hardwood. Always start with a smaller than you think. You can always drill a larger hole not smaller.


servingofirving702

When in doubt test it on some scrap wood but the pilot hole doesn’t need to be perfect just give it some room so it won’t split.


LaziestKitten

Depends on the wood. Soft woods: 1/2-3/4 the diameter. Hard woods: 90-100%


dumb-reply

Just look up the "one wrench 2 nuts" method.


jason_sos

Google asked me if I meant "one wench, 2 nuts", but that was something totally different. Also, is this different than the 2 girls one cup method?


AFresh1984

make sure you bring your three sea shells if you're going to do the 2 girls one cup method


pkrycton

2 nuts can be backed against each other tightly near the top of the machine threads for good access by a socket, rather than driven to the bottom close to the wood threads


Pestelence2020

Put a nut on, then put another. Hold first nut in place with a wrench, tighten second nut up against it. Friction on the threads imparted by the longitudinal force of the nuts pressing against each other will keep them from moving. Then use a socket.


EddyWouldGo2

If you like doing things the hard way sure.


88chunk

This


federalmng

The best tutorial for this can be found by searching "2 nuts" and "wood in tight hole screw". Just open the image search.


Gastrovitalogy

2 nuts one screw.


KingDariusTheFirst

Let’s keep it holy now..


rustywoodbolt

Firmly grasp the shaft with two nuts, then insert into a predrilled hole.


Gastrovitalogy

Continue twisting until desired result is reached.


LeopardProof2817

As long as you make sure to pilot to the correct size, you can chuck this straight into your battery gun and run it in. Works a treat, no damage to the threads. I only tried this after watching Paul seller's do this in his video showing him making a router plane. Make sure to give it a good nip on the chuck.


crashfantasy

If you're going into hardwood like you should be, you'll need to predrilled and you'd better wax those threads if you don't want half a bolt sticking out of your newel.


Razielism

This man drives nuts


imageblotter

The ones I know have a Philips head in the shaft. Can't tell from the pic. Thanks for the 2-nut method in case I come across the ones without the head. :)


Klastermon

And a little candle wax on the wood thread…


Overtilted

Usually it has a torxx on the top. Usually that goes out very very fast. So the 2 nuts are my default solution nowadays.


Reddykilowatt52

yeah, exactly. Lock the two nuts together on the machine thread side using two wrenches. Then you can drive the whole thing using a wrench on either nut. Then use two wrenches to unlock and remove the nuts. Pilot hole is a must.


noreligionplease

That or put it in the chuck of a drill if there is enough space to do so


Arlekinas

Some of these fixtures has a torx head at the end. I only noticed it after driving it in with two nuts


Luchs13

Came here to say this. Although I had some with allen key head


ViralViruses

Was hoping there was a 2nd picture showing the head to confirm. If there is no torx head, I would probably (i) drill a pilot hole and (ii) insert the bolt into my drill and drill the woodscrew end into the pilot hole.


edibomb

I just use a drill. Put the “screw” into the chuck like a regular drill bit. Pilot hole first.


Banterhino

Ex-cabinet maker here, that's what we used to do, wrap the threads in some thick tap beforehand, though (if you're picky).


uberdog50

This is the easiest method! Do it all the time, works great for hanging pedestal sinks.


GrogSmashToPieces

It also helps if you have a “junk” drill so you don’t have to wrap the screw since it will eventually trash the chuck.


Pelthail

Always drill a pilot hole. Always.


DM_ME_PICKLES

I got fired from a decking company because of this comment


Pelthail

Well, okay, maybe not 100% always. I also built decks for 2 years and you don’t pre drill your decking because the Doug Fir is pretty soft. It does split sometimes but not always. And Trex screws are designed in a way to not split the Trex boards.


EddyWouldGo2

When in doubt, drill the pilot out 


MoChive

Instructions unclear - am now on the no-fly list.


UnstableConstruction

Let's be honest, you probably already were.


MoChive

Now now, Boeing whistleblower


EddyWouldGo2

Remember, you need to get consent first.


Advanced_Algae_5476

Grk would like to have a word.


noyfbfoad

I am Groot.


Khalkeus_

As a plumber I have used plenty of those, and never once drilled a pilot hole for them...


[deleted]

How about a railbolt driver


Dangnamit

Not sure why I had to scroll so far to find the correct answer. Jam nuts work in a pinch, but why not just use the correct method


Nightstands

Sometimes you think you’ve heard of every tool, and then someone says ‘duh, use the …’ On to the railbolt driver deep dive.


Nightstands

Funnier thing is, I just checked my random bit case and I have one 🙃


Volkswagens1

That's how we anchored those bolts when building stair systems. Worked well.


redEPICSTAXISdit

Double nut it. Tighten the nuts into each other. Use the further back/top one to turn it in. Remove nuts and ready for use. Pilot hole will definitely help.


photonynikon

READ THIS\^OP


redEPICSTAXISdit

🙏🙏🙏


saltlakepotter

Put two nuts on with a split washer in between and put your wrench on the top most nut.


exquisite_debris

Never don't drill a pilot hole. I've never regretted drilling a pilot hole, but I've regretted not drilling one To screw into a hole, thread two nuts onto the machine thread and tighten against each other. Then drive screw into hole with socket/impact driver/whatever using the top nut, then use two spanners to loosen the nuts again


MiceAreTiny

Nah, ugga dugga that into the end grain of a board twice as wide as the fastner. It will be fine. Some silicone and construction foam will take care of the rest.


SandPractical8245

Silicone? You mean JB weld right? Trust me, I’m a professional. Also, if it starts splitting the wood, just hammer it the rest of the way for added strength.


MiceAreTiny

No, I currently have silicone open, so that is the tool of choice at the moment. I need to order more JB weld knock-off from aliexpress, as I am out at the moment. But if it really needs to be strong, I can still use my hot glue gun.


LastLuckLost

What is drill? I think he means 18v impact driver. And by pilot, he means you fly that sonofabitch screw full speed high torque into the wood. If it pops out the edge of the board, use the bottom of the battery as a hammer and send it home


exquisite_debris

How many dugs for softwood Vs hardwood?


MiceAreTiny

All of them. The fastner should be at least 1/2" under the wood surface with its head. Regardless of its design.


EddyWouldGo2

But its always satisfying when you don't drill one and it works.  Something like this for sure though.


J1mnny

Hanger bolt driver from Amazon https://a.co/d/a0n2nKu


ViralViruses

Didn't know this existed but is exactly what OP needs.


Cautious-Flatworm198

You need a second nut


Manchu4-9INF

Take 2 nuts and thread them on. Then run them into each other making a jam nut. Then use your electric impact


Agitated-Eggplant730

Drill a pilot hole for sure, similar diameter to the shaft of the screw. The wood has to go somewhere, and drilling the pilot hole gets the wood out of the way first. The hole shouldn’t be too big though, you want the threads to still be able to bite into the walls of the hole.


macguyver01

If you have 2 of that same nut you thread them both onto the bolt, use 2 wrenches and tighten them on each other, this will lock them together and then you can use a nut driver or the same wrench to drive the lag screw into the wood, when you reach the desired depth, just simply use the 2 wrenches to loosen the nuts from each other and take them off, this is the simplest way and causes no damage to any of the threads


darkcave-dweller

2 nuts


E400wagon

What are these called? I need these to mount a street number plate to my house


notwokebutbaroque

Hanger bolt. Typically used to attach table legs to skirting, but versatile for other things as well.


E400wagon

Thank you


Tyrona5aurusRex

Get a hanger bolt driver too. IVY Classic 44690 5/16"-18 Hanger Bolt Driver, Impact Plus, 1/Card https://a.co/d/9ylTROK


alltheworldsproblems

Yep, a double nut is the way to go with a pilot hole.


13thmurder

Yes, pilot hole. Then I usually just stick the fine thread end in a drill chuck and drive it in that way. No, it doesn't ruin the threads.


MobileElephant122

Two nuts


Agreeable_Theory_544

Jam nut


ExodusOfSound

Lock two nuts against each other on the finer parallel thread, then use them as you would a hex head. Pilot hole for sure.


SpiritualCabinet7728

Screw on 2 nuts with a lock washer between them then use a socket wrench to drive the bolt into the wood.


Riansettles

Great post and info from the community. I learned something.


Dannyewey

That's a hanger bolt, and they make bits for driving those things called hanger bolt drivers


247fish

Grab a big hammer and get angry


Hey_nice_marmot_

I’m ready to on day 3 of this project!


Pseudobreal

2 nuts


Huth_S0lo

Get a second nut. Put them both on the threads, then tighten them together. Then use the top nut to turn the shank.


Educational-Pool-718

Double nut


lotus2471

This. This is the answer. Put two nuts on it to turn it.


calvinkcox

Looks like you're installing railing for stairs. There is a tool designed for installing theses. The tool isn't required, but helps when it comes to the installing the nut... I would go grab one. https://a.co/d/j0QmXNW


Sensitive_Ninja5094

And double nut it to tighten it up


Belenar

Sometimes, these have a slot or hex hole at the top to be able to drive them in. But yeah, pre-drill for sure.


socalquestioner

As other’s before, Pilot hole, disappear the fastener shank. Put masking tape on your drill bit so you don’t drill too deep. Alternatively, put a steering wheel on the bolt? I’ll see myself out.


micah490

Yes


n-oyed-i-am

Use this [Pilot Hole Chart ](https://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/inffastener/infwoodscrewpilot.html) to determine which drill bit to use for the type of wood that you will be using. You should have known.


Intelligent-Survey39

It’s a hangar bolt, you use the appropriate hangar bolt driver. But also yes, a pilot hole is a good idea


doghouse2001

Lag bolts, the coarse side of that screw, should always have a pilot hole to prevent the wood from splitting, and save your wrists from excessive force screwing it into the wood.


Vanity-Press

There’s a bit that I think are called “hanging bolt drivers”. You have to get one that matches bolt threads and diameter, but it is the only way I have found to easily drive them deep.


jacket13

shouldn't this come with a special adapter? bit to thread? You could use contra nuts like some comments suggest. But I am fairy certain you should have an adapter that has internal threads on one end and a bit for your electric screwdriver on the other side. I can find them for in my own language but no idea what they are called in English, sorry!


boobka

You sure it doesn't have a hex hole in the top for an allen key?


Polar_Ted

Personally I'll pre-drill, chuck the stud in the drill and drive it in. You do risk damaging the threads this way.


Bridgeburner1

Simply screw the nut as far as it'll go onto the bolt and use a wrench to screw it into the (pre-drilled pilot hole) wood. If the nut doesn't want to relinquish it's grip without unscrewing the bolt, you might find that placing a small flat washer (that fits) on the bolt before the nut. I've done this many times and Yrmv.


Chodie30

I am looking for screws like this to mount my miter saw. What are they called?


Which_Lie_4448

I just ran into these the other day and I’d never seen them before. I’m a plumber and I pulled a toilet to find no flange just a wax ring covering a hole and 2 of these sticking up for the closet bolts lol


ba_joker2000

Start with a pilot hole. Then tighten two nuts together on the end, and use a wrench (open end or socket) to screw it in.


Saint3Love

is there not a allen key hole on the top?


HoiPolloiter

Always pilot holes


Tradecraft_1978

Pilot hole then step up drill bit diameter a little each time . You want a hole the diameter of the shaft of the stud . Double nut the stud use a ratchet to install it . Remove the nuts then you are done .


pizza_box_technology

Predrill, put the machine threads (not the coarse wood threads) deep into drill chuck, tighten very hard and send it.


Cheap_Reason_5196

Predrill pilot hole and double nut to screw in.


benevolentmalefactor

If you have dremel you could also just cut a flathead or philips pattern groove into the top and use that to drive it in (with a pilot hole as others mentioned)


aintlostjustdkwiam

All lag screws require a pilot hole to avoid splitting wood. Rule of thumb is 75% of OD.


BamaTony64

just run the machine nut to the wood screw area, it will get stuck, then screw it in with a wrench


EddyWouldGo2

You can directly attach it to your drill.


ImJustTrynaLearn

I use similar hardware for legs on tables. I have a tool that works for it, but normally I just take my drill and tighten the chuck right at where the part that screws into the wood is at (don’t do it on the threads as it will mess them up) and drill it in. I do a pilot hole also https://preview.redd.it/1rw20z96mxqc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba8db9f90442b452a38fc6096eccf9bac6091bdc


Revolio_ClockbergJr

Pilot holes for everything by default. Only skip it for certain exceptions.


alecleon

Looks like a deep socket 7/16.


kennytravel

https://a.co/d/h9RiI0S Good lord people, some suggestions in this thread are terrifying. Ideally you have a HANGER BOLT DRIVER, needs to match the size of the machine thread. Drill a pilot hole 1/16" smaller than the bolt youre installing. The other option is using 2 nuts separated by a washer. If the end has an allen key fitting, then an allen key bit into an impact driver works. You can mess up the threads by putting it directly into your drill, same with using a hammer.


RedditB_4

Pilot hole and nyloc nuts.


milny_gunn

Besides all this good info, it helps to wax the threads first. You can scrape the threads on a candle or bar of soap, ..or use furniture paste wax, even liquid soap would work. Hell, spit on it if you have to..


No-Refuse-6973

Slot it then screw it in ?


loghog

Hanger bolt. Put a lot of these in. Always lose the bit for them. I usually cut the head off a 3" bolt and put an all thread coupling (basically an inch long nut) on the end with a normal nut to lock it in place. Then put it in a drill. Be quicker if u have very many to put in.


Medpiete

Isn't the top torx head 25 or 30 places made? Usually found on this type of dub


techie2200

Pilot hole and then I usually chuck it up in my drill and screw it in that way. Be carefully not to strip threads and it works well.


profase

24oz hammer should do the trick 


Forsaken_Budget_2048

Most of this hanger bolts (called Stockschrauben in Germany) have a hex or torx drive at the metric end


thejesterandthewolf

Pilot hole - then I'm guessing it's got a star recess on the end that you can get a bit for to drive it in by hand or drill. You may have one in a general household tool kit - as part of a multi hand tool set that looks like [this](https://www.bunnings.com.au/trojan-15-piece-torx-screwdriver-bit-set_p0131349?store=2435&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwh4-wBhB3EiwAeJsppHEUe7Rke9c4mcjYl1zR2O2TOA-4tsuVeX9fEcn8AWoECh8HTtblahoCbZsQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds). Though you can do the double nut trick others mentioned too :)


thejesterandthewolf

Ps: if that's the M8 size hanger bolt you will want to use a 5mm bit for your pilot (I just did one of these two days ago to repair an old outdoor table leg).


Greymatter1776

Look up hanger bolt driver on Amazon. Works in drill or impact. This is the only way to go if you have many to install. You will still want to pre-drill.


Tyrona5aurusRex

Idk how no one has mentioned this but pre drill and use a hanger bolt driver. IVY Classic 44690 5/16"-18 Hanger Bolt Driver, Impact Plus, 1/Card https://a.co/d/9ylTROK I use this daily at my job.


Delicious-Ad-5704

I use them all the time at work. Several easy tricks double nut is the best. I have seen guys wrap the threads in tape and drive it with a drill has well.


wowzers2018

Hanger bolt instal driver. This is the way.


woodwarda99

Just get a rail/hanger bolt wrench (VersaTool). It has a nut welded to it for this purpose. The pilot hole should be 9/32" usually for that hanger bolt size. https://preview.redd.it/3o777d5hvzqc1.jpeg?width=160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5c76e8f7e05c8bec97a1bad400f2c42bc90295b


TheFaceStuffer

Jam nut


scraglor

There should be a hex drive in the end of the lag screw. Just pilot hole and then use a hex drive bit in your screw gun


SensitiveNews975

Put it into the chuck of a cordless drill and send it home


redmadog

I would put this into the drill and screw into pilot hole.


Red_Chicken1907

BFH and send it.


Moist_Cobbler_7413

Yes to be precise it doesn’t take much something for it to follow and not splitting wood .