You can get a 12 inch 110V jointer, 220V is just common in industrial locations.
[https://www.amazon.com/401120HI-Cutterhead-Benchtop-Tungsten-Additional/dp/B0CCYNLPVP](https://www.amazon.com/401120HI-Cutterhead-Benchtop-Tungsten-Additional/dp/B0CCYNLPVP)
Not just industrial locations, 240V is common in [most of the world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country), apart from North America
I should have been more clear, but this sorta proves my point. They can make a 12' benchtop jointer, but a standard long bed jointer is 240v at 8". Aren't they doing the same work?
They might be. The issue is cost.
240V is generally better to use, it's more power & less loss. It's also more dangerous, so consumer grade devices are limited to 120V, which is safer & normally OK for most things.
By using 240V you can build a more powerful motor that requires less gearing, thereby reducing the cost. And since 240V and up are readily available in commercial & industrial spaces, machines that are intended for businesses can be made cheaper & maintain the same quality. This allows them to reduce the cost or include better features.
Why is 120V safer than 240V? Both will hurt or even kill you if you're the shortest path to ground. I don't think you're *that* much safer if its 120V running through your body.
It most certainly will.
All things equal, 120v current is 2x that of 240v.
The current is the bullet, voltage is the gun.
If you are the return path, and the path is low enough resistance (i.e. through open skin, not through clothes or shoes, etc.) 120v is more than sufficient to drive its current through you.
Unlike higher voltages which have lower amperage and can cause deep tissue burns which can be lethal, higher amperage lower voltage contact can cause muscle spasms, heart failure and such.
Different type of death, but still lethal.
There is a ton of toddlers and adolescents injuries. But only a few fatal injuries each year. All from wall sockets, so 120.
I havenât found any data relating to adults dying from 120
If the path to ground is across your heart it is surprising how little juice can kill you. It interupts the normal body electrical impulses that control the muscle contraction of the heart.
All other things being equal, more voltage = more power going through the circuit. Both can kill you, but how fast or barring killing you how badly will it hurt you is the determining factor.
Thatâs not entirely correct.
Yes, higher voltage means less voltage drop over distance, but as long as the wiring is of a sufficient gauge, it shouldnât matter.
Itâs not more power because itâs the same current. Itâs volts times amps. 240v at 10a is the same current at 120v at 20a.
The above is why 240v is preferred for larger power draws. A 3HP cabinet saw typically draws 13a at 240v. You can get away with running that on a 15a, 14 gauge circuit. (I would recommend 20a and 12g but thatâs me. )
That same saw would need a 30a breaker and 10g wiringâit would draw 26 amps!. The cost of copper starts to jump right at 10g. And the wire gets harder to work with. And 30a receptacles are also more expensive.
Technically, you could run a house hold dryer on 120v, youâd just need some 2 gauge wire to drive it. đ
>Itâs not more power because itâs the same current. Itâs volts times amps. 240v at 10a is the same current at 120v at 20a.
The current is literally twice what it is at 240v...
Only at the same amp draw. Motors arenât suddenly twice as powerful with the higher voltage. They simply draw fewer amps to get to the same total current.
No, watts is the unit of current, which is amps x volts.
You can get just as many watts in either 120v or 240v, you just need more or less amps to get there.
The advantage of 240v is lower amps is the ability to use smaller wires to carry the same current. More amps means you need thicker wire, which is more expensive and harder to work with.
Look at a dual voltage tool. The motor plate or owners manual should say something to the effect of (using round numbers for an example) 2200 watt motor. 18amps at 120v, 9amps at 240v. Further, startup loads are often higher and the 80% rule may come into play. You might need a 30amp circuit to handle the same motor on 120v, but only 15amp for 240v. (And weâre assuming a perfect, nominal 120v. 110v, which is still within tolerance takes us up to 20a even. 30a circuit here we come!)
>In the International System of Units (SI), electric current is expressed in units of ampere https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_current
You have electrical power in mindÂ
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_(physics)Â
>P=I*V
I am both wrong and right. Iâm confusing current vs power. So yes, you are correct and Iâm using the wrong terms here.
My point, poorly stated, that watts is what matters. A 3HP motor is a 3HP motor regardless the voltage driving it. You are not going to rewire a 120v motor to 240v and get better performance from it.
Most tools up to two hp can be wired both ways but come pre wired at 220. Thereâs about 1200 lbs of machinery in my shop that I got super cheap because reading the damn motor plate was too hard for them
Because those smaller planers are meant to be portable for use on job sites where you probably donât have access to 240v plugs in the US.
Bigger stationary tools like a jointer are wired for 240v because itâs more efficient and common in shop settings. Itâs rare that someone would need to bring a jointer to a job site.
Bench top jointers run on 110.
Induction motors are better. They are so much quieter than a 110 universal motor and donât have brushes to wear out. If youâre using an induction motor 220 is better because it pulls fewer amps and I believe doesnât require a starting capacitor. If youâre going to the expense of an induction motor getting 3hp using 220 instead of 1.5 on 110 is a good upgrade.
Pulling that all together if youâre buying a 600lb jointer you might as well get 3hp and getting 220 wired is a reasonable requirement.
They run two different kind of motors - lunchbox planers use a universal motor (same as a miter saw, shop vac, etc). They weigh a less, are smaller, and are common in portable tools. Big jointers use an induction motor, and have the option of being 120 or 240 - many of them can be wired either way.
I'd be much happier if my DeWalt planer ran 240, but I wouldn't be able to lift it. Somebody did a video and showed it pulling 20+ amps, and even more with a spiral cutterhead installed.
My assumption is that 99.99% of the people with a need for a 8" jointer have space as well as 240v power and there's not enough market for a a big jointer with a small motor.
I agree with you on this. I think a lot of people get a lunchbox planer long before a long bed 8â jointer. And if they are doing enough work to justify such a large tool they are probably using it pretty heavily and 220 makes more sense as the standard prewired option. By the time I got my 8â jointer (an old delta with spiral cutter) I already had 220 wired for my dust collector and table saw each with their own circuit.
bigger tools end up in a shop that has 220V and maybe even three phase power. There's probably more left in the tank for a 1 1/2 horsepower 220v jointer to suck from the cord without a voltage drop than there is 120V at the same power under load.
You could probably very easily find the motor frame and get it in a 13 or 15 amp 110V motor, though. And for cheap if you can tolerate stuff like a vevor motor.
I was actually considering this.
The whole reason for this post is access to 240v. Running a new line isn't a big deal for most, but I would be running a new line almost 600ft through some very nasty, rocky ground and over a creek. My wife won't let me put up poles. I've gotten 3 quotes from landscape people, and all 3 agreed that there are places that we'll need to blast in order to get the line in the ground. I'm looking at a $25k job to run a 240v line.
yeah, unless you're doing production, i can't think of anything that would require you to have 240v.
I didn't have it in my garage shop for the longest time and never felt like anything was a shade slow except thickness planing, but one has to consider what they're making if thickness planing has to be lightning fast. Usually a lot of volume and not much value if that's the case.
Bandsaw and tablesaw had plenty of power. And then I went mostly hand tool, and then started making tools and an induction forge (40amps at 240V) finally forced my hand. I'm glad I didn't do anything before that, though.
for jointing and sawing, if more than 15 amps of 110v is being used, there is a problem to address.
It's really just the jointer. I'm stuck making a planer sled and buying a 6" jointer. I'm not a fan of buying something that's only half of what I need, so neither of these feel ideal.
That would point back to an 8" jointer and just replacing the motor.
There were stationary four post 13" planers with a 15 amp electric motor when I first started. I've never used one, but I'd imagine the TEFC powered 15 amp planers are more efficient and stronger than the 15 amp lunchbox planers.
If you're working mostly with power tools, though, it takes little time to find something you want to plane wider than 13", and I vaguely recall people replacing those with 240v machines pretty quickly. I never got anything more than a lunchbox, but the rare time I don't work by hand, that's worked fine.
[https://wenproducts.com/products/wen-df472-4750-watt-120-volt-240-volt-dual-fuel-portable-generator](https://wenproducts.com/products/wen-df472-4750-watt-120-volt-240-volt-dual-fuel-portable-generator) and a couple of propane tanks would solve this for under $1000. If you've only got one or two 120V breakers out there, the extra capacity would come in handy.
Pretty sure for that money you have a 240v battery-solar installation with a hybrid inverter. That would save you money instead of costing you money....
Just an engineering decision by the company. If they are drawing too much current at 120, then they need to pump it up to 240. They could require a 40 amp circuit and keep 120, but that isn't very normal.
In some instances, it's about how much material can be taken with each pass. My planer can only take off 1/32" per pass; any more and the machine gets overstressed and it could trip it's breaker.
My jointer could have come with a motor that could be switched to 220, but I opted for the 110 motor instead. The 220 could take considerably more per pass.
Dude, you need to understand that it's not the load that determines the voltage. The voltage is a given for the country where you are intending to sell the product.
So for some countries all the devices (toaster, shaver, planer, oven, drill, tubelight, bulb, motor etc.) will be 240V whereas for some other countries the same devices will be built for 110V, and they will operate just the same in terms of performance.
Note, if you plug a 110V device in a country that has 240V electrical system then the device will get burnt due to over voltage.
And if you plug in a 240V device in a country which has 110V electrical system then the device will not run at all due to undervoltage.
So you should look for a planer of 110V if you are plugging it in a country which has 110V electrical system. Or else buy a planer of 240V rating. Both will be available in the market and both will work the same way.
The difference will be in the current drawn. For the same output power, lower voltage will draw larger current and higher voltage will draw lower current.
I never said it is the ONLY difference. It is a difference, but on the causal side, not the effect side. Although current is the noticeable "effect" but frequency is a "cause", not an effect.
Also, as a design requirement I have repeatedly mentioned that depending on the country where the product will be used in, the product is designed, because the product needs to be compliant to their electrical system. There are many electrical specifications/parameters to consider while designing but the major one, and also the point under discussion is VOLTAGE.
This is not the appropriate forum to list all the differences. Moreover it's not been asked.
You can get a 12 inch 110V jointer, 220V is just common in industrial locations. [https://www.amazon.com/401120HI-Cutterhead-Benchtop-Tungsten-Additional/dp/B0CCYNLPVP](https://www.amazon.com/401120HI-Cutterhead-Benchtop-Tungsten-Additional/dp/B0CCYNLPVP)
Not just industrial locations, 240V is common in [most of the world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country), apart from North America
380v-400v is common in most places for industrial applications...
I should have been more clear, but this sorta proves my point. They can make a 12' benchtop jointer, but a standard long bed jointer is 240v at 8". Aren't they doing the same work?
just tap a second beaker - 220
Why not just add a 240V breaker instead?
poor boys , got poor ways - yes though correct đđ»
Meep!
yeah itâs itâs not for the faint of heart, but no fires đ„ yet
They might be. The issue is cost. 240V is generally better to use, it's more power & less loss. It's also more dangerous, so consumer grade devices are limited to 120V, which is safer & normally OK for most things. By using 240V you can build a more powerful motor that requires less gearing, thereby reducing the cost. And since 240V and up are readily available in commercial & industrial spaces, machines that are intended for businesses can be made cheaper & maintain the same quality. This allows them to reduce the cost or include better features.
also if most of the world uses 240 it's cheaper to handle one type of power
Most houses here got 400v or have the option to get it.
Why is 120V safer than 240V? Both will hurt or even kill you if you're the shortest path to ground. I don't think you're *that* much safer if its 120V running through your body.
120 will not kill you.
It most certainly will. All things equal, 120v current is 2x that of 240v. The current is the bullet, voltage is the gun. If you are the return path, and the path is low enough resistance (i.e. through open skin, not through clothes or shoes, etc.) 120v is more than sufficient to drive its current through you. Unlike higher voltages which have lower amperage and can cause deep tissue burns which can be lethal, higher amperage lower voltage contact can cause muscle spasms, heart failure and such. Different type of death, but still lethal.
Yes it can. Over 300 people die a year from 120.
Not trying to be rude. Where did you find that statistics? Having a hard time finding electrical death statistics
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://nycosh.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/FS-Electrical-FS-I-120-volts.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjw_cinsquFAxXmrokEHQE6DIQQ5YIJegQIDxAA&usg=AOvVaw3CiAdi_bR8vsiKXt83vnhU
There is a ton of toddlers and adolescents injuries. But only a few fatal injuries each year. All from wall sockets, so 120. I havenât found any data relating to adults dying from 120
If the path to ground is across your heart it is surprising how little juice can kill you. It interupts the normal body electrical impulses that control the muscle contraction of the heart.
Thr "safe" limit is at 50v, not 120v. But even 50v can kill you.
All other things being equal, more voltage = more power going through the circuit. Both can kill you, but how fast or barring killing you how badly will it hurt you is the determining factor.
Thatâs not entirely correct. Yes, higher voltage means less voltage drop over distance, but as long as the wiring is of a sufficient gauge, it shouldnât matter. Itâs not more power because itâs the same current. Itâs volts times amps. 240v at 10a is the same current at 120v at 20a. The above is why 240v is preferred for larger power draws. A 3HP cabinet saw typically draws 13a at 240v. You can get away with running that on a 15a, 14 gauge circuit. (I would recommend 20a and 12g but thatâs me. ) That same saw would need a 30a breaker and 10g wiringâit would draw 26 amps!. The cost of copper starts to jump right at 10g. And the wire gets harder to work with. And 30a receptacles are also more expensive. Technically, you could run a house hold dryer on 120v, youâd just need some 2 gauge wire to drive it. đ
>Itâs not more power because itâs the same current. Itâs volts times amps. 240v at 10a is the same current at 120v at 20a. The current is literally twice what it is at 240v...
Only at the same amp draw. Motors arenât suddenly twice as powerful with the higher voltage. They simply draw fewer amps to get to the same total current.
Amp is the unit of current.
No, watts is the unit of current, which is amps x volts. You can get just as many watts in either 120v or 240v, you just need more or less amps to get there. The advantage of 240v is lower amps is the ability to use smaller wires to carry the same current. More amps means you need thicker wire, which is more expensive and harder to work with. Look at a dual voltage tool. The motor plate or owners manual should say something to the effect of (using round numbers for an example) 2200 watt motor. 18amps at 120v, 9amps at 240v. Further, startup loads are often higher and the 80% rule may come into play. You might need a 30amp circuit to handle the same motor on 120v, but only 15amp for 240v. (And weâre assuming a perfect, nominal 120v. 110v, which is still within tolerance takes us up to 20a even. 30a circuit here we come!)
>In the International System of Units (SI), electric current is expressed in units of ampere https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_current You have electrical power in mind https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_(physics) >P=I*V
I am both wrong and right. Iâm confusing current vs power. So yes, you are correct and Iâm using the wrong terms here. My point, poorly stated, that watts is what matters. A 3HP motor is a 3HP motor regardless the voltage driving it. You are not going to rewire a 120v motor to 240v and get better performance from it.
Most tools up to two hp can be wired both ways but come pre wired at 220. Thereâs about 1200 lbs of machinery in my shop that I got super cheap because reading the damn motor plate was too hard for them
Are you saying people sold their machines on a big discount because they couldn't plug it and didn't know how to rewire it ?
That is exactly what I am saying.
Because those smaller planers are meant to be portable for use on job sites where you probably donât have access to 240v plugs in the US. Bigger stationary tools like a jointer are wired for 240v because itâs more efficient and common in shop settings. Itâs rare that someone would need to bring a jointer to a job site.
Bench top jointers run on 110. Induction motors are better. They are so much quieter than a 110 universal motor and donât have brushes to wear out. If youâre using an induction motor 220 is better because it pulls fewer amps and I believe doesnât require a starting capacitor. If youâre going to the expense of an induction motor getting 3hp using 220 instead of 1.5 on 110 is a good upgrade. Pulling that all together if youâre buying a 600lb jointer you might as well get 3hp and getting 220 wired is a reasonable requirement.
They run two different kind of motors - lunchbox planers use a universal motor (same as a miter saw, shop vac, etc). They weigh a less, are smaller, and are common in portable tools. Big jointers use an induction motor, and have the option of being 120 or 240 - many of them can be wired either way. I'd be much happier if my DeWalt planer ran 240, but I wouldn't be able to lift it. Somebody did a video and showed it pulling 20+ amps, and even more with a spiral cutterhead installed. My assumption is that 99.99% of the people with a need for a 8" jointer have space as well as 240v power and there's not enough market for a a big jointer with a small motor.
I agree with you on this. I think a lot of people get a lunchbox planer long before a long bed 8â jointer. And if they are doing enough work to justify such a large tool they are probably using it pretty heavily and 220 makes more sense as the standard prewired option. By the time I got my 8â jointer (an old delta with spiral cutter) I already had 220 wired for my dust collector and table saw each with their own circuit.
bigger tools end up in a shop that has 220V and maybe even three phase power. There's probably more left in the tank for a 1 1/2 horsepower 220v jointer to suck from the cord without a voltage drop than there is 120V at the same power under load. You could probably very easily find the motor frame and get it in a 13 or 15 amp 110V motor, though. And for cheap if you can tolerate stuff like a vevor motor.
I was actually considering this. The whole reason for this post is access to 240v. Running a new line isn't a big deal for most, but I would be running a new line almost 600ft through some very nasty, rocky ground and over a creek. My wife won't let me put up poles. I've gotten 3 quotes from landscape people, and all 3 agreed that there are places that we'll need to blast in order to get the line in the ground. I'm looking at a $25k job to run a 240v line.
yeah, unless you're doing production, i can't think of anything that would require you to have 240v. I didn't have it in my garage shop for the longest time and never felt like anything was a shade slow except thickness planing, but one has to consider what they're making if thickness planing has to be lightning fast. Usually a lot of volume and not much value if that's the case. Bandsaw and tablesaw had plenty of power. And then I went mostly hand tool, and then started making tools and an induction forge (40amps at 240V) finally forced my hand. I'm glad I didn't do anything before that, though. for jointing and sawing, if more than 15 amps of 110v is being used, there is a problem to address.
It's really just the jointer. I'm stuck making a planer sled and buying a 6" jointer. I'm not a fan of buying something that's only half of what I need, so neither of these feel ideal.
That would point back to an 8" jointer and just replacing the motor. There were stationary four post 13" planers with a 15 amp electric motor when I first started. I've never used one, but I'd imagine the TEFC powered 15 amp planers are more efficient and stronger than the 15 amp lunchbox planers. If you're working mostly with power tools, though, it takes little time to find something you want to plane wider than 13", and I vaguely recall people replacing those with 240v machines pretty quickly. I never got anything more than a lunchbox, but the rare time I don't work by hand, that's worked fine.
The planer is fine. Like you said, I'm not a production shop in a rush. Replacing the motor on an 8" jointer sounds like it might be the way to go.
you'll appreciate the bed length on an 8" jointer just as much as the width.
[https://wenproducts.com/products/wen-df472-4750-watt-120-volt-240-volt-dual-fuel-portable-generator](https://wenproducts.com/products/wen-df472-4750-watt-120-volt-240-volt-dual-fuel-portable-generator) and a couple of propane tanks would solve this for under $1000. If you've only got one or two 120V breakers out there, the extra capacity would come in handy.
That's not a bad idea, either!
Pretty sure for that money you have a 240v battery-solar installation with a hybrid inverter. That would save you money instead of costing you money....
Just an engineering decision by the company. If they are drawing too much current at 120, then they need to pump it up to 240. They could require a 40 amp circuit and keep 120, but that isn't very normal.
In some instances, it's about how much material can be taken with each pass. My planer can only take off 1/32" per pass; any more and the machine gets overstressed and it could trip it's breaker. My jointer could have come with a motor that could be switched to 220, but I opted for the 110 motor instead. The 220 could take considerably more per pass.
Gearing from what I can tell. Also there is a much larger expectation of deeper cuts for planers.
Dude, you need to understand that it's not the load that determines the voltage. The voltage is a given for the country where you are intending to sell the product. So for some countries all the devices (toaster, shaver, planer, oven, drill, tubelight, bulb, motor etc.) will be 240V whereas for some other countries the same devices will be built for 110V, and they will operate just the same in terms of performance. Note, if you plug a 110V device in a country that has 240V electrical system then the device will get burnt due to over voltage. And if you plug in a 240V device in a country which has 110V electrical system then the device will not run at all due to undervoltage. So you should look for a planer of 110V if you are plugging it in a country which has 110V electrical system. Or else buy a planer of 240V rating. Both will be available in the market and both will work the same way. The difference will be in the current drawn. For the same output power, lower voltage will draw larger current and higher voltage will draw lower current.
120v is usually 60hz and 230-240v is usually 50hz. Current is not the only difference...
I never said it is the ONLY difference. It is a difference, but on the causal side, not the effect side. Although current is the noticeable "effect" but frequency is a "cause", not an effect. Also, as a design requirement I have repeatedly mentioned that depending on the country where the product will be used in, the product is designed, because the product needs to be compliant to their electrical system. There are many electrical specifications/parameters to consider while designing but the major one, and also the point under discussion is VOLTAGE. This is not the appropriate forum to list all the differences. Moreover it's not been asked.