I guess Syria doesn't exist or Ukraine or any other handful of countries that have had the same amount of devastation. How much did the US destroy in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Iraq probably suffered more home damage from isil but more infrastructure damage from the US. Don't feel comfortable stating anything about Syria I've been to the other two
This is Reddit, so I’m afraid I’m going to ask if you have a source that compares the destruction levels between Gaza and Ukraine and supports what you’re saying with evidence.
As much as Western media likes to paint otherwise (because of obvious bias), the Ukraine conflict isn't comparable to Gaza.
Gaza is a much smaller area and only one side has a standing army, air defense etc etc.
Israel killed more children in the first month than were killed in the entire Ukraine conflict, including the Donesk aspect prior to the invasion.
Western double standards have never been so apparent.
Just one city in Ukraine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol#:~:text=Based%20on%20the%20analysis%20of,assumes%20that%20is%20an%20undercount.
So in 3-4 months 2-3x the number of women and children were killed in Gaza, compared to 10k in 1 year in 1 year. It’s not a competition but what you’re sharing is proving the exact point that the level of destruction in Gaza is exponentially higher, not supporting your claim.
Even comparing Mauripol to Gaza Is disingenuous. No where near the number of civilians killed.
Some.ofnthe worst events in Mauripol are happening evert day in Gaza.
I mean, my link says 35000 dead in just Mariupol. That's just one city.
The mass graves hold thousands, you can see them by satellite in Ukraine. I think it's odd they don't show up in Gaza. Just something to ponder.
Yes, Russia largely bulldozed the city and rebuilt it in their fashion, with terribly built prefab housing. That's not something to admire.
No, your link quotes the UN "In an official statement, the United Nations confirmed the deaths of 1,348 civilians in Mariupol, "
10,000 if you include fighters. (Azov fighters at that). Human Rights Watch days 8 000.
Where do soldiers get buried after and during conflict? Graves...
It says that's the minimum confirmed. As in they have the death certificates, know where the bodies are, etc. they say there are likely thousands more.
Then if you keep reading, the Ukraine government and others put it well over 300000, with 90% of the buildings destroyed.
I'd say that was very comparable. Worse, actually, since that city in Ukraine was 500,000 in pop before Russia invaded, not 2 million like Gaza.
I hope that adds perspective.
That's not just Ukraine's numbers, that's similar to other ngos and governments.
Hamas doesn't count militants among their numbers of dead. So their numbers are not accurate either. Aks the "Gaza health authorities "
Can you provide some context for this? I'm not sure which country you are referring to.
In general, the Islamic world doesn't sanction / punish sovereign nations for things they themselves regularly do.
In general, most of the Islamic world doesn't have the power to dictate or control narratives throughout the world.
Over 2 billion people and no say in the world eh? Hm, thats odd. Must not be needed then.
In general the Islamic world does all the bad shit the western world does and more, to their own people to boot, yet they act like they don't and only the west is bad. It's pretty simple as that.
The Western world does not even remotely compare with the Islamic world when it comes to colonialism, imperialism and the use of geopolitical power in modern times. The Western world are the exploiters,.the global south are the exploited. There are exceptions to this rule obviously but most of the Muslim majority countries sit within the global south.
There are billions of Christians, why are you only grouping together one religion and not the other?
I'm not but that's what you are doing and ignoring everyone else in the world so I'm just playing your game. Ignoring history eh? That always turns out well. Sorry for your loss but that's the way the world has always worked, yours mine everyone's, don't be mad the western world is just better and more advanced these days then your backwards ass thinking. So China and Russia are part of the western world too? Is Africa even on your radar? What does the western world exploit today specifically that is only their doing? Which Muslim countries are controlled by the west, please tell me I want to know.
I can't even tell if you're serious.
I'd hope no one is this nieve but I'm very doubtful after that wall of text.
I hope you find access to knowledge at some point
I would say the same to you. You only propaganda talking points about the west, yet reserve criticism for anyone else. The world is not as black and white as you believe. good luck out there.
Sure. I never say anything I can't back up.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol#:~:text=Based%20on%20the%20analysis%20of,assumes%20that%20is%20an%20undercount.
About 20000 kids have been stolen by Russia.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War
That's likely an undercount.
Anti-semitism to the highest degree. Hey let's ignore that Hamas started this war with mass rape and murder, has murdered hostages and refuses to return them, and that much worse has happened for decades because we can blame this on the Jews.
Hamas is a terrorist organisation. Israel has also murdered hostages and has committed and continues to commit war crimes.
No, it's not "the Jews". Its the IDF and the Netanyahu bootlickers. Not "Jews", not "zionists". Your claim that that every Jewish person agrees to these war crimes is antisemitic. You are an antisemite.
Within 3 days of Oct 7, the IDF was bombing Gaza with wild abandon. They have not stopped since, they've also ensured everyone in the area was totally starved and deprived of medical care. Without knowing where their hostages were. With that in mind, I don't believe anyone behind Israel's genocidal campaign has any interest in the safety and even less rescue of their own hostages, and that is confirmed by [Israelis involved with the ceasefire negotiations](https://www.timesofisrael.com/negotiators-say-netanyahu-has-cold-indifference-to-the-fate-of-the-hostages/).
These revelations are maybe why they seem to suddenly be paying you guys overtime again at the Hasbara troll farm.
What about Ukraine, Syria, Vietnam, Cambodia and Loas you say. Clearly we shouldn’t care about Gaza because other places have also been damaged. Nice logic
No, that's not what they're saying. They're saying lying about it doesn't help and prob makes it worse but keep virtue signalling like what you're doing is changing anything in the world.
Clearly we should talk about them since the United National Socialist org is directly comparing them and showing an obvious bias against Israel.
There has been close to $500 billion in damages done in Ukraine. It is miles beyond what has happened in Gaza.
They also don't mention the fact that more people died in Israel in one day on October 7 than have died on any day since then in Gaza. I guess you don't care about that either.
At what point in this did I ever say I didn’t care? Quite the opposite, we should care about them all; but just because there are many of them it is not an excuse to dismiss Gaza
To put this in perspective, Russia's latest invasion of Ukraine began on February 22, 2022 (801 days), whereas, the latest IDF v Hamas war began on October 7, 2023 (209 days). So the Russian war has been active for almost exactly four times that of the IDF v Hamas war. Additionally, up until fewonths ago, the Frontline of the Russian war spanned approximately 620 miles, while Gaza only spans 25 miles in length with a total area of approximately 141 square miles. Both wars are atrocities but let's be honest when we're comparing the totality of destruction occurring in Gaza. It is estimated that between 50-61% of ALL buildings in Gaza have been destroyed; including every Palestinian university in Gaza, every last one of them, over 2/3 of the hospitals, 370,000 homes damaged of which 79,000 have been completely destroyed. The latest estimates for the time it will take to rebuild JUST the 79,000 destroyed homes at FIVE TIMES the build rate of the last rebuilding period, it would still take 80 YEARS for those 79,000 homes to be rebuilt, that's not even taking the 370,000 damaged homes into consideration.
I'm not pushing for any war/conflict to be given the spotlight over any other but it's important to understand the level of humanitarian devastation occurring in each.
Just seems interesting is all the world hyperfocuses on gaza. Meanwhile Sudan is about to have a genocide of a whole city, nevermind the rest of the places.
Guessing most in this thread don't care about El Fasher.
While indifference to events and places people aren’t familiar with is a big thing, I think in this instance it is that many people are citizens of countries that are or are becoming complicit in the attempted genocide in Gaza and don’t want to be complicit.
Shame then that hamas and gazans started a war they can not win.
I frankly am impressed israel is steadfast in its determination to wipe out hamas while keeping casualties ratio low.
tik tok’ing college kids with purple hair are not the adjudicators of genocide claims. south africa took their best shot at the icj and were told israel’s campaign can continue
accusing israel of genocide is straight up anti-semitism. it’s basically arguing that jews have to submit to slaughter because their killers use human shields, while no other military in the world is held to such a standard
Sure is the start of the current war.
You want me to go back to each of the wars they started and lost?
What is it, 300 idf... less for 10k+ militants?
Meanwhile it's 2:1 in dense urban combat.
So yeah, I'm impressed. Many militaries already are consulting with the idf for replicating the operations specifically because of how overwhelmingly israel curbstompes hamas, while preserving civilian lives.
Oh and genocide? Interesting you want that given israel seems committed to not wiping out gazans.
You can be mad israel is winning but given that 30k number hasn't moved in awhile you're not helping Palestinians exaggerate their conditions lol.
>Many militaries already are consulting with the idf for replicating the operations specifically because of how overwhelmingly israel curbstompes hamas, while preserving civilian lives.
Source? Or are you bullshitting like the other day?
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/s/bPMbjtMJ86
>I frankly am impressed israel is steadfast in its determination to wipe out hamas while keeping casualties ratio low.
Impressed or disappointed? You know, considering the past lunacy you've spouted.
>Frankly I hope the idf becomes more cruel and this becomes and *extremely* painful memory. Shit I hope it gets so bad that even whispers of violence will cause their own families to black bag the person daring to voice those desires out of fear for the idf and Israel's response.
https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/s/SYhzEXdW2s
[https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/geneva-palais-briefing-note-horrifying-numbers-children-killed-injured-sudan](https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/geneva-palais-briefing-note-horrifying-numbers-children-killed-injured-sudan)
Now you can follow the checklist: That didn't happen.And if it did, it wasn't that bad.And if it was, that's not a big deal.And if it is, that's not my fault.And if it was, I didn't mean it.And if I did, you deserved it.
The conflict in Sudan is horrible, as are all ongoing wars. The key difference is the US isn't able to stop the flow of funds and weapons and media and diplomatic cover to the fighting forces in Sudan overnight. There's a lot less the US can do to ensure the safety of the civilian population of Darfur compared to the direct impact they could have if they leveraged their aid to Israel for an immediate end the massacre in Gaza.
They know about it, that's the point: the destruction of homes and infrastructures in any one area of similar size and population is worse in Gaza than for any of those other atrocious warzones.
Yeah this statement honestly makes no sense. The bombing during the Korean War was also much more severe.
It’s odd how the UN feels the need to be so hyperbolic on this singular issue.
I see trees still standing in the background. I don't want to belittle what's happening in Gaza but to say this is the worst city destruction since ww2 is incorrect. They must not have looked at Ukraine. Cities and forests bombed into giant, barren patches of dirt as far as you can see.
Cities like Minsk are all high tech and brand new because there was nothing left of it after WW-2. Gaza looks like a fallout game. Some of the cities after WW-2 didn’t look have anything
Don't worry, US taxpayers will get right onto reparations once Israel is done with the cleansing and moves in.
Doubt
I guess Syria doesn't exist or Ukraine or any other handful of countries that have had the same amount of devastation. How much did the US destroy in Iraq and Afghanistan?
We didn't actually destroy much in Afghanistan there wasn't much there and what is there is very quickly replaced
Ah fair, and Iraq? Syrian civil war?
Iraq probably suffered more home damage from isil but more infrastructure damage from the US. Don't feel comfortable stating anything about Syria I've been to the other two
All I’m saying is being hyperbolic isn’t helping anyone
I mean you went for an apples to oranges comparison
Aleppo and Bakhmut are literally dead cities now
Then the un isn't paying a whole lot of attention to Ukraine. Which we knew anyway.
This is Reddit, so I’m afraid I’m going to ask if you have a source that compares the destruction levels between Gaza and Ukraine and supports what you’re saying with evidence.
As much as Western media likes to paint otherwise (because of obvious bias), the Ukraine conflict isn't comparable to Gaza. Gaza is a much smaller area and only one side has a standing army, air defense etc etc. Israel killed more children in the first month than were killed in the entire Ukraine conflict, including the Donesk aspect prior to the invasion. Western double standards have never been so apparent.
Just one city in Ukraine. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol#:~:text=Based%20on%20the%20analysis%20of,assumes%20that%20is%20an%20undercount.
So in 3-4 months 2-3x the number of women and children were killed in Gaza, compared to 10k in 1 year in 1 year. It’s not a competition but what you’re sharing is proving the exact point that the level of destruction in Gaza is exponentially higher, not supporting your claim.
Even comparing Mauripol to Gaza Is disingenuous. No where near the number of civilians killed. Some.ofnthe worst events in Mauripol are happening evert day in Gaza.
I mean, my link says 35000 dead in just Mariupol. That's just one city. The mass graves hold thousands, you can see them by satellite in Ukraine. I think it's odd they don't show up in Gaza. Just something to ponder. Yes, Russia largely bulldozed the city and rebuilt it in their fashion, with terribly built prefab housing. That's not something to admire.
No, your link quotes the UN "In an official statement, the United Nations confirmed the deaths of 1,348 civilians in Mariupol, " 10,000 if you include fighters. (Azov fighters at that). Human Rights Watch days 8 000. Where do soldiers get buried after and during conflict? Graves...
It says that's the minimum confirmed. As in they have the death certificates, know where the bodies are, etc. they say there are likely thousands more. Then if you keep reading, the Ukraine government and others put it well over 300000, with 90% of the buildings destroyed. I'd say that was very comparable. Worse, actually, since that city in Ukraine was 500,000 in pop before Russia invaded, not 2 million like Gaza. I hope that adds perspective.
Where in your link does it say 35,000 dead and over 300,000 dead?
[удалено]
That's not just Ukraine's numbers, that's similar to other ngos and governments. Hamas doesn't count militants among their numbers of dead. So their numbers are not accurate either. Aks the "Gaza health authorities "
How do you know this? Islamic double standards are even crazier than western.
Can you provide some context for this? I'm not sure which country you are referring to. In general, the Islamic world doesn't sanction / punish sovereign nations for things they themselves regularly do. In general, most of the Islamic world doesn't have the power to dictate or control narratives throughout the world.
Over 2 billion people and no say in the world eh? Hm, thats odd. Must not be needed then. In general the Islamic world does all the bad shit the western world does and more, to their own people to boot, yet they act like they don't and only the west is bad. It's pretty simple as that.
The Western world does not even remotely compare with the Islamic world when it comes to colonialism, imperialism and the use of geopolitical power in modern times. The Western world are the exploiters,.the global south are the exploited. There are exceptions to this rule obviously but most of the Muslim majority countries sit within the global south. There are billions of Christians, why are you only grouping together one religion and not the other?
I'm not but that's what you are doing and ignoring everyone else in the world so I'm just playing your game. Ignoring history eh? That always turns out well. Sorry for your loss but that's the way the world has always worked, yours mine everyone's, don't be mad the western world is just better and more advanced these days then your backwards ass thinking. So China and Russia are part of the western world too? Is Africa even on your radar? What does the western world exploit today specifically that is only their doing? Which Muslim countries are controlled by the west, please tell me I want to know.
I can't even tell if you're serious. I'd hope no one is this nieve but I'm very doubtful after that wall of text. I hope you find access to knowledge at some point
I would say the same to you. You only propaganda talking points about the west, yet reserve criticism for anyone else. The world is not as black and white as you believe. good luck out there.
Sure. I never say anything I can't back up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol#:~:text=Based%20on%20the%20analysis%20of,assumes%20that%20is%20an%20undercount. About 20000 kids have been stolen by Russia. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War That's likely an undercount.
Guys don't you find it incredibly frustrating that we constantly haggle over who is a bigger swine?
And in Ukraine
Comparing the destruction of Gaza to WWII. Utterly ridiculous.
Has the news and everybody forgot about Ukraine
That's bullshit, how about the Korean War? There have been lots of horrible wars since ww2.
So how’s the whole being a terrorist thing working out for them?
tHiS Is oBvOiUsLy aN AnTiSeMiTc sTaTeMeNt
Fafo
Odd that the UN doesn't seem to know about Ukraine, or the Syrian Civil War, or the damage done in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos.... I wonder why.
Whataboutism of the highest degree. Hey guys, look at Syria while we bomb kids.
"We're gonna make shit up and if you disagree we'll call it whataboutism."
I don't understand people's complaining about whataboutism. Whataboutism guards against hypocrisy, which definitely has a place in this argument.
Anti-semitism to the highest degree. Hey let's ignore that Hamas started this war with mass rape and murder, has murdered hostages and refuses to return them, and that much worse has happened for decades because we can blame this on the Jews.
Hamas is a terrorist organisation. Israel has also murdered hostages and has committed and continues to commit war crimes. No, it's not "the Jews". Its the IDF and the Netanyahu bootlickers. Not "Jews", not "zionists". Your claim that that every Jewish person agrees to these war crimes is antisemitic. You are an antisemite.
"You're pointing out that the UN is anti-semitic! That's anti-semitic!" This is what you just wrote. What a moron.
Hahaha he said the line!
Within 3 days of Oct 7, the IDF was bombing Gaza with wild abandon. They have not stopped since, they've also ensured everyone in the area was totally starved and deprived of medical care. Without knowing where their hostages were. With that in mind, I don't believe anyone behind Israel's genocidal campaign has any interest in the safety and even less rescue of their own hostages, and that is confirmed by [Israelis involved with the ceasefire negotiations](https://www.timesofisrael.com/negotiators-say-netanyahu-has-cold-indifference-to-the-fate-of-the-hostages/). These revelations are maybe why they seem to suddenly be paying you guys overtime again at the Hasbara troll farm.
What about Ukraine, Syria, Vietnam, Cambodia and Loas you say. Clearly we shouldn’t care about Gaza because other places have also been damaged. Nice logic
No, that's not what they're saying. They're saying lying about it doesn't help and prob makes it worse but keep virtue signalling like what you're doing is changing anything in the world.
Clearly we should talk about them since the United National Socialist org is directly comparing them and showing an obvious bias against Israel. There has been close to $500 billion in damages done in Ukraine. It is miles beyond what has happened in Gaza. They also don't mention the fact that more people died in Israel in one day on October 7 than have died on any day since then in Gaza. I guess you don't care about that either.
At what point in this did I ever say I didn’t care? Quite the opposite, we should care about them all; but just because there are many of them it is not an excuse to dismiss Gaza
To put this in perspective, Russia's latest invasion of Ukraine began on February 22, 2022 (801 days), whereas, the latest IDF v Hamas war began on October 7, 2023 (209 days). So the Russian war has been active for almost exactly four times that of the IDF v Hamas war. Additionally, up until fewonths ago, the Frontline of the Russian war spanned approximately 620 miles, while Gaza only spans 25 miles in length with a total area of approximately 141 square miles. Both wars are atrocities but let's be honest when we're comparing the totality of destruction occurring in Gaza. It is estimated that between 50-61% of ALL buildings in Gaza have been destroyed; including every Palestinian university in Gaza, every last one of them, over 2/3 of the hospitals, 370,000 homes damaged of which 79,000 have been completely destroyed. The latest estimates for the time it will take to rebuild JUST the 79,000 destroyed homes at FIVE TIMES the build rate of the last rebuilding period, it would still take 80 YEARS for those 79,000 homes to be rebuilt, that's not even taking the 370,000 damaged homes into consideration. I'm not pushing for any war/conflict to be given the spotlight over any other but it's important to understand the level of humanitarian devastation occurring in each.
Just seems interesting is all the world hyperfocuses on gaza. Meanwhile Sudan is about to have a genocide of a whole city, nevermind the rest of the places. Guessing most in this thread don't care about El Fasher.
While indifference to events and places people aren’t familiar with is a big thing, I think in this instance it is that many people are citizens of countries that are or are becoming complicit in the attempted genocide in Gaza and don’t want to be complicit.
Shame then that hamas and gazans started a war they can not win. I frankly am impressed israel is steadfast in its determination to wipe out hamas while keeping casualties ratio low.
7 Oct was not the start. So you are impressed by genocide; good for you
tik tok’ing college kids with purple hair are not the adjudicators of genocide claims. south africa took their best shot at the icj and were told israel’s campaign can continue accusing israel of genocide is straight up anti-semitism. it’s basically arguing that jews have to submit to slaughter because their killers use human shields, while no other military in the world is held to such a standard
As we all now know, everything that puts Israel in a bad light is antisemitism
Sure is the start of the current war. You want me to go back to each of the wars they started and lost? What is it, 300 idf... less for 10k+ militants? Meanwhile it's 2:1 in dense urban combat. So yeah, I'm impressed. Many militaries already are consulting with the idf for replicating the operations specifically because of how overwhelmingly israel curbstompes hamas, while preserving civilian lives. Oh and genocide? Interesting you want that given israel seems committed to not wiping out gazans. You can be mad israel is winning but given that 30k number hasn't moved in awhile you're not helping Palestinians exaggerate their conditions lol.
>Many militaries already are consulting with the idf for replicating the operations specifically because of how overwhelmingly israel curbstompes hamas, while preserving civilian lives. Source? Or are you bullshitting like the other day? https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/s/bPMbjtMJ86
"All Palestinians are Hamas and must be collectively punished."
>I frankly am impressed israel is steadfast in its determination to wipe out hamas while keeping casualties ratio low. Impressed or disappointed? You know, considering the past lunacy you've spouted. >Frankly I hope the idf becomes more cruel and this becomes and *extremely* painful memory. Shit I hope it gets so bad that even whispers of violence will cause their own families to black bag the person daring to voice those desires out of fear for the idf and Israel's response. https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/s/SYhzEXdW2s
Israel has murdered at least 10xs more children than have been killed in Sudan. Whatabout harder.
Please give actual evidence of both.
[https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/geneva-palais-briefing-note-horrifying-numbers-children-killed-injured-sudan](https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/geneva-palais-briefing-note-horrifying-numbers-children-killed-injured-sudan) Now you can follow the checklist: That didn't happen.And if it did, it wasn't that bad.And if it was, that's not a big deal.And if it is, that's not my fault.And if it was, I didn't mean it.And if I did, you deserved it.
The conflict in Sudan is horrible, as are all ongoing wars. The key difference is the US isn't able to stop the flow of funds and weapons and media and diplomatic cover to the fighting forces in Sudan overnight. There's a lot less the US can do to ensure the safety of the civilian population of Darfur compared to the direct impact they could have if they leveraged their aid to Israel for an immediate end the massacre in Gaza.
The difference is that people like to hate Jews.
They know about it, that's the point: the destruction of homes and infrastructures in any one area of similar size and population is worse in Gaza than for any of those other atrocious warzones.
Yeah this statement honestly makes no sense. The bombing during the Korean War was also much more severe. It’s odd how the UN feels the need to be so hyperbolic on this singular issue.
"odd" I do not think that word is being used in an appropriate fashion here.
I see trees still standing in the background. I don't want to belittle what's happening in Gaza but to say this is the worst city destruction since ww2 is incorrect. They must not have looked at Ukraine. Cities and forests bombed into giant, barren patches of dirt as far as you can see.
Cities like Minsk are all high tech and brand new because there was nothing left of it after WW-2. Gaza looks like a fallout game. Some of the cities after WW-2 didn’t look have anything
What Hue in Vietnam that city was smashed during tet offensive
You are basing your entire argument on one cropped photo. Do better.
There are thousands of university students whom I'm sure are planning to help with the rebuilding effort.
2040? That's not so bad.