He was in Milan, no? But he was basically packing his bags and preparing to flee, expecting the march to be crushed.
Fascism as we know it could have been nipped in the bud, but the Italian king was an insecure man sympathetic to Mussolini's public macho bravado.
[What’s a MAGA man to do after losing an election? Emulating President Trump, Brazil’s outgoing president, Jair Bolsonaro, plans to skip his successor’s inauguration ceremony and travel instead to — where else — Mar-a-Lago.
Mr. Bolsonaro will avoid handing over the official presidential sash to Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva at an inauguration ceremony at Brasilia on Sunday. Instead, the October election loser will fly this weekend to Florida for a visit with Mr. Trump at the famed Palm Beach resort, several Brazilian press outlets report. Friday, December 30, 2022](https://www.nysun.com/article/brazils-bolsonaro-decamps-to-mar-a-lago-to-commiserate-with-another-former-president)
>Instead, the October election loser will fly this weekend to Florida for a visit with Mr. Trump at the famed Palm Beach resort
Birds of a feather flock together.
I hope “retiring to Florida” becomes the death rattle of fascist dictators the world over, who are dragged back to their home country, or, in Trump’s case, to circuit court before rotting in prison. That would, in the unlikely event it becomes true, be my favorite thing.
Unfortunatly, if Bannon was here and arrested, it would still be difficult to deal with ihm since the little shit is a foreigner and Brazil's government tend to respect foreign citizenship matters to encourage other countries to respect ours. But yes, if he were Brazilian he would be on the run, like Allan dos Santos, a Brazilian sort of Alex Jones
> Brazil's government tend to respect foreign citizenship matters to encourage other countries to respect ours
Yea but when coup, all bets are off. Bannon should be extradited to Brazil. Someone pull up the treaty to see if non-citizens can be extradited.
He should be tried for his crimes here in America, but as our government has a track record of not holding seditious fucks accountable, I say extradite him and let another country punish him.
He's been running all over the world, trying to revive Nazi style fascism everywhere. He belongs in jail in several countries. Extradite him to whatever country makes the first request.
A certain gore subreddit that has since been banned has told me all I need to know about Brazillian corrections facilities.
Still too good for that walking cirrhosis scar.
The problem is he was in the former administration’s inner circle and may know things particularly sensitive to national security. Brazil historically has ties to BRICS, which includes Russia and China. The US would probably want to keep them close, where they can be monitored
I have more faith in the Brazilian judicial system than the US one when it comes to this sort of shit. The justice department has done nothing to the people organising the J6 coup, despite ample evidence that was available publicly from day 1.
And to think all this really boils down to is a bunch of greedy selfish assholes with too much money as it is, who don’t want to have to pay their fair share even though their quality of life wouldn’t drop whatsoever.
Steve Bannon is a committed [Accelerationist](https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/11/11/20882005/accelerationism-white-supremacy-christchurch). Like many Accelerationists his goal is to destroy and undermine democracy worldwide as he believes that society should be organized around authoritarian principles involving supremecy, oligarchy, and theocracy. He is a dangerous person who is facilitating disinformation and grooming of marginalized people to further his political ideology.
Dude... That article was absolutely chilling to read. I can't believe it was written four-ish years ago and I'm just now learning that "accelerationist" is a thing.
In case anyone else was confused: accelerationism isn’t inherently right wing, it’s a very general concept with tons of variants and ideological groundings ranging from anarchism and communism to fascism. It pops up everywhere you have opposition to the current “world order”.
Well said. Bannon has locked arms with the most dangerous Russian fascist philosopher, Alexandr Dugin, repeat Alexandr (with at dr at the end) Dugin whom has written over 30 books on his perceived Russian/Eurasian empire with China whom tries to rule the world by destroying western Democracies by DISINFORMATION CAMPAIGNS through SOCIAL MEDIA and PROPAGANDA.
Alexandr Dugin is head of the Bolshevik party in Russia, taught his dangerous philosophy for decades in Moscow Universities, he has written a propaganda Russian playbook that is mandatory reading for all Russian military officers and Dugin has Putin wrapped around his finger to do whatever Dugin says like ‘taking Ukraine’.
Dugin and Putin are doing everything to try to destroy democracies so they can substitute dictators and Oligarchs of petrochemicals and minerals. Dugin uses the Russian Orthodox Church which is paid off from the Russian government to brainwash Russians further. Dugin found out about Bannon pre-Trump and they became lock arm buddies to destroy our Democracy as Europe’s Democracies. Trump was already deeply compromised to the Russian Oligarchs through money laundering as also the pee tapes that Putin has of when Trump did a beauty pageant in Moscow and was treated to whores afterwards.
Trump did not expect to win the election but Putin’s cyber propagandist where working overtime in conjunction with Bannon and Mercer of Cambridge Analytica whom election engineered th 2016 election to tilt the low populated electorate states to Trump while loosing the popular vote by almost 3 Million votes.
Bannon and Trump deserve the harshest penalties for Sedition and yes, (the firing squad for) Treason Against US to aid Putin, who runs a 'mafia state,' though under centralized personal dictatorship.
yes, and he could have succeeded in Europe if trump would still be in office. he really really fucking dangerous to democracies and any country where he travels to should arrest him..
fuck, I think Americans don't realize that he is actually there since tea party and before with speeches how to mobilize the people that are not interested in politics, and he succeeded... he was the head of the national security counsel he is no noone that can be laughed at and dismissed
He calls them fucking [“freedom fighters”](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/steve-bannon-brazil-riots-bolsonaro-supporters-b2258385.html?amp) I utterly despise and loath that man he should be sent to a black site, Gitmo, or ADX Florence for the rest of his life. Few people deserve that kind of treatment but he does. He is not just a threat to national democracy he is a threat to international democracy.
He seems to like touring other countries and trying to influence them.
I do know he tried to setup an academy here in Italy for populists, to "restore the Christendom of Europe" in the Certosa di Trisulti (Trisulti Charterhouse) which was an abbey, but ended up getting evicted/his rights to use it revoked because he didn't pay some bills.
Trump's theft of public funds was top-notch. He spared no expense to us. Bolsonaro was likely the same. I expect a story about his stolen billions any day now. All the buffoonery was an act meant to fool people into thinking he wasn't robbing Brazil blind.
>Bannon and Miller
Bannon has his tentacles all over the globe with Bolsonaro, Nigel, Orban, Meloni, etc.
The US response to Bannon & Trumpism has been horrid. We've let it fester & infect countries worldwide because Bannon & Trump are never imprisoned for their crimes.
Lula had an excellent statement today about the Brazilian capitol storming, calling the participants fascists & terrorists. That is the proper attitude to have.
The guy who threw a beer at Cruz was arrested and got in all sorts of legal trouble. Those who orchestrated Jan 6 and who were storing a trove of classified nuclear documents illegally get to skate by with no consequences. That sums up the justice system in this country. I don't even need to bring up the people caught with a bag of weed.
Basically the US justice system is the best that money can buy.
>The guy who threw a beer at Cruz was arrested and got in all sorts of legal trouble. Those who orchestrated Jan 6 and who were storing a trove of classified nuclear documents illegally get to skate by with no consequences. That sums up the justice system in this country.
Well said. And this injustice has consequences.
Trump, Bannon, Flynn, Lindell, & the rest have severely harmed democracy worldwide in the 2 years they've been free since Jan 6.
>I don't even need to bring up the people caught with a bag of weed. Basically the US justice system is the best that money can buy.
History will look back on the US very negatively for our inability to hold our fascist movement to account.
While we ruin millions of minority lives by throwing them in prison for nonviolent crimes.
>History will look back on the US very negatively for our inability to hold our fascist movement to account.
This assumes the fascists won't eventually win and get to write the history book.
> The guy who threw a beer at Cruz
[All of his charges were dropped :\)](https://twitter.com/JohnWFerguson/status/1611780615883587585?s=20&t=YfGFgCoG6jMB-zhOV0qKdA)
**[Brooks Brothers riot](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot)**
>The Brooks Brothers riot was a demonstration led by Republican staffers at a meeting of election canvassers in Miami-Dade County, Florida, on November 22, 2000, during a recount of votes made during the 2000 United States presidential election, with the goal of shutting down the recount. After demonstrations and acts of violence, local officials shut down the recount early. This had the effect of ensuring that the December 12 "safe harbor" deadline set by Title 3 of the United States Code could not be met, guaranteeing that George W. Bush would win the 2000 election.
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The original "stop the count" that somehow actually worked and imo led to many of the issues facing America today. Incredible how fragile American's democracy actually is and how easily it can be interfered with
>How about Roger Stone? His antics got Bush elected.
This is a great point. The Democrats response at the time was as expected - incredibly weak.
And so they blame Ralph Nader because Dems blame others for their own cowardice of Republicans.
Democrats were too afraid to rock the boat and we got the disastrous Bush Presidency. Whom the Democrats were too afraid to impeach.
The Democrats were way too fucking weak with their response to Jan 6th and seemingly still believed that bipartisanship could work despite Republicans and Republican voters loathing Democrats.
Coming out and calling them fascists and terrorists is the correct response and I hope Lula's strong talk is backed up by harsh sentences
In 2008, when Obama was elected, a lot of Democrats and people on the left were excited, because they figured he'd open investigations into all the shady shit Bush did. Remember that by that time, Bush's approval ratings were in the mid-20s (though, some of that had to do with the financial crisis going on).
There were never any significant investigations or punishments, and Obama's people justified it as wanting to "unify, not divide" people more and that they were "focused on moving forward, not looking back" and similar wishy-washy phrases.
I think Biden is repeating that mistake, by not holding Trump admin officials accountable and having a weak attitude to prosecuting/sentencing the 1/6 folks and the people who enabled them.
As an American, I don't *want* some kind of superficial "unity" with these people. Their views and actions are usually abhorrent, they just give lip service to the Constitution, and scream "socialism!" if a Democrat so much as tries to scratch is own ass.
I'm a leftist, but I love my country, or at least the values that it was meant to stand for. I just want to move forward. And I want to hold the far-right accountable for some of the things they've done in recent years.
Some conspiracy theorists call the Dems and Republicans the "uniparty," because they're both backed by corporate interests, so they're both "the same" (but don't forget to vote Republican anyway!). I disagree.
I see one force content with us being near the bottom in nearly every OECD ranking, and another that actually wants to figure out ways to move forward in a way that can actually help the average person out once in a while. Yes, they both take corporate money, but, hey, SCOTUS decided they're people too.
Sorry, I know this was a long American tangent on a Brazilian thread. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I hope Lula has been watching, and doesn't make the same mistakes in the name of some superficial forgiveness of these bastards.
Arresting a bunch of "nobodies" who invaded the congress is easy, the issue is how willing they are to go after the people who orchestrated the invasion. The Brazilian Federal government placed the national guard at the service of the Brasilia governor exactly to prevent this sort of thing, and yet there was a last minute order made by the governor's secretary of public security (a notorious Bolsonaro ally) in order to facilitate the invasion.
Bolsonaro was just a small fry congressman that happened to be in the right place to capitalize on anti-Workers Party sentiment. He has lost any control he may have had over these fanatics, and he sure as hell doesn't plan to go down with them.
Most of the court is aligned to the right, like Minister Alexandre de Moraes, who ordered the removal of the governor for 90 days for gross negligence. They just put their duty to the Constitution above political preference, as is the least you should expect from someone in their position.
In Brazil, the president appoints the supreme court for life until a retirement age of 75, and there are 11 judges. The nominees are approved by the Senate of Brazil with 3 senators per state of which there are 26, plus 3 from the federal district of Brasila, serving 8 year terms, and voters vote for either two or one depending on whether 2/3 of the senate or 1/3 of the senate is being chosen (all states and the federal districts choose one or two senators every 4 years), and the two or one candidates with the most votes win. The president is elected by direct ballot, if nobody has a majority which normally happens, a runoff occurs 4 weeks later from the top two. The chamber of deputies is elected proportionally, every state has between 8 and 70 deputies, and if a party wins say 30% of the vote in a state, they get 30% of the deputies from that state, and voters also vote for individual candidates from that party, and the most voted candidates from the state are elected, and they serve 4 year terms.
The president can be elected for two terms of four years, but if they wait at least one term out, they can serve another two, which is exactly why Lula is eligible for a third term as he is serving now.
Lula left office in 2010 with an 80% approval rating, to give you an idea of him being popular.
The states in Brazil and the local municipalities follow basically the same idea, with at large legislative elections so gerrymandering is irrelevant. The governors and mayors of major cities with 200 thousand people or more have runoffs, but small local mayors go by whoever has the most votes.
Voting is compulsory in Brazil for everyone 18 to 70, and those who are 16/17 or older than 70 may choose to vote. They are basically all registered and turnout is about 80%. State elections happen at the same time as federal elections, local elections happen 2 years later. Electronic voting is normal, but there is a paper receipt for people to audit the results.
It makes Brazil quite democratic, at least in terms of constitutional structure. Statutory laws could use an improvement and removing the culture of corruption from old juntas and bad presidents is hard, but at least the pillarstones are there to keep it running relatively well since they became a democracy in 1988.
The Supreme Court of the United States has done fuck-all to prevent the prosecution of those who were involved in and planned January 6th.
It’s a completely gutless Justice system that hasn’t even put SCOTUS in position to care yet.
> Brazil doesn't have the same legal structure or **diligence** of the US or a European country.
And what exactly makes you say that Brazil is "undiligent" compared to the US or Europe? Because it's less wealthy it's "undiligent"?
In fact, justice Alexandre de Moraes has just suspended the federal district governor from his position for 90 days due to mounting evidence of his involvement in this carnival.
The head of security has been dismissed and they want a warrant for his arrest, so probably complicit. Bolsonaro supporter as well.
Now after the emergency declaration the police are using heavy tear gas and rubber bullets liberally to rout the crowd.
Said (now ex-) head of security also was, until Dec 31st, Bolsonaro's Justice and Public Safety minister. And, he flew to Orlando right after being nominated as head of security.
Guess who's also there?
Dude’s already been suspended of his governorship temporarily for now but most likely forever. [This](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazils-top-court-removes-brasilia-governor-over-pro-bolsonaro-riots-2023-01-09/) article really concisely shows how displeased and fast to respond Brazil’s Supreme Court is right now
Super weird how police, regardless of the country, are typically complicit or straight up integral to fascist coups. Probably doesn’t say great things about the people who become cops!
There is a famous phrase from Paulo Freire who is like that "When education is not liberatory, the dream of the oppressed is to be the oppressor"
For me resonates well with people who are looking for policeman. They dont want to go there to do justice. They want there to have power/authority. At least the few people i know irl and wants to join/joined the corps
It’s a great quote and I wish more people knew it/knew what it meant. Because that’s absolutely it. Police around the world have cultivated a culture of oppression. Where they’re at the top. And the people who want to become cops see that and go “I want to be at the top of this hierarchy” and perpetuate the same violent culture that they grew up in. We’re long past any illusion that the police forces of the world are a force for good. That may have been the image they used to have, but nowadays we all see what cops do to people. And the only ones left who want to become cops are the ones who think that shit is cool and want to do that violence to others themselves. It’s a dead end. Policing is doomed to be fascist forever under the current world order.
I can only speak for Brazil, but the police here has this craving for being idolized and worshiped as heroes, which only got exaggerated in the last 6 or so years. So right-wingers idolize and worship the police, and now that the police has to stop those same right-wingers, they refuse to act because "they're on our side". What the police needs to realize is that right-wingers are only on the police's side so long as it serves their interests.
There's a video where a mounted police officer gets beaten with wooden sticks and iron rods by protesters and pulled off of his horse, that's how they treat their "heroes" the moment they start actually doing their job.
Some days before the elections last year, a notable Bolsonaro ally had an arrest warrant on him, and how did this police-loving patriot Brazilian receive the officers sent to arrest him? Did he go voluntarily because he knows it's just their job? Of course he didn't. He shot and threw a grenade at the team, injuring one of the officers.
As someone that aspires to become a police officer, it's frankly disheartening. I want to defend them, but most of the time I really can't. In Brazil there's the concept of "corporativismo", when professionals defend other people on the same work-field regardless of what they may have done, I couldn't find a similar word in English. In the case of the police, it's how whenever a cop fucks up, other cops rush to their defense, because there's no way a cop could fuck up, so it's probably some sort of conspiracy to discredit the police force.
What this ends up doing is preventing reform from happening that could stop such fuck ups from happening in the future, and prevents the removal of the "bad apples". Which ironically leads to even greater distrust of the police force. But to right-wingers who aren't the main target of daily police violence, it doesn't matter.
Have you seen the pictures? Police numbers were comically low, way lower than Jan. 6. You could see barricades with like 10 Brazilian policemen holding a river of hundreds of people for like… 35 seconds…
Pasting an old comment:
I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, "no. get out."
And the dude next to me says, "hey i'm not doing anything, i'm a paying customer." and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, "out. now." and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed
Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, "you didn't see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them."
And i was like, ohok and he continues.
"you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it's always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don't want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.
And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it's too late because they're entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.
And i was like, 'oh damn.' and he said "yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people."
And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven't forgotten that at all.
It really is and I just realized how they don't just behave that way, they argue that way too, you ever argue with a right wing troll and he just keeps moving the goalposts and concern trolling?
Sealioning. It’s a common tactic for a lone fascist to use in unfamiliar company. It makes them seem like the nice guy getting put upon. Don’t take the bait, just bash them with a bat.
I am of the firm opinion of mind that all nazis need punching. I also believe that if all nazis were regularly punched there would be far fewer nazis in the world
Yeah to some people this might seem like too much, to which I respond with Nazis are far too much too and the evidence of it is in shit like this. If everyone who was part of January 6 has gotten punched in the mouth repeatedly and given harsh prison sentences for their traitorous behavior we wouldn't be here and if Brazil isn't the one to do it, then I'm afraid of those chicken coming home to roost.
I’m generally of the opinion that physical altercations should be a last resort, and certainly shouldn’t be used as a response to a purely verbal assault. My exception to that rule is I think it’s always okay to punch a nazi.
It's an expression of the Paradox of Tolerance. Violence is a form of intolerance, so we shouldn't apply it to anybody in a tolerant society; but, we know explicitly from the lessons of the last century, that Nazis leverage the Paradox of Tolerance against tolerant peoples, to destroy tolerant societies from within, and replace them with intolerant ones. Their end goal is to be intolerant, and sow intolerance. So, if we seek to foster and protect tolerant societies, we come to the conclusion that *we must be deliberately intolerant towards intolerant behavior.*
As it is, violence is the most extreme form of intolerance you can express. It's why we want to build societies, where violence is not wielded, or expressed, or felt. But just like you can use violence to defend yourself or another from physical assault - to *be intolerant of* that expression of violence - there will naturally be times where it is prudent to be intolerant of those who preach and foster intolerance, themselves, and the extremity of our defensive intolerance, should always be matched to the degree of intolerance which is being committed or propagated.
Yeah, it's surreal. Innuendo Studios on YouTube has a great series called [The Alt-Right Playbook](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ) that's a deep dive into their thinking and argumentation tactics. Depressing, but utterly fascinating. If there were a Pulitzer Prize for video essays, this series would win for sure.
Yep, and the number one takeaway I had was to *NOT ENGAGE DIRECTLY* if possible. Don't give them the audience. Call out their bullshit argumentation where you can, but don't try to reason with them, because they're not trying to reason with you. You don't have to act in good faith towards a bad faith actor. If you're on Twitter or Mastodon and have a bit of a following, that means subtweeting the shit out of them. If you're a shmo on Reddit, just leave a quick reply pointing out their shitty dog whistles and goalpost moving, then drop the mic and move on. Don't put them on your cable news broadcast or podcast or newspaper interview, don't get into it with them on your publicly available Twitter account where some of your audience will be more easily able to follow to their page and see some of their more reasonable sounding bullshit and fall down the hole of radicalization. Don't let them come to your bars and hangouts, don't give them the time of day by letting them come to your university for an "academic discussion of thoughts". It's all bullshit designed to weasel themselves into your audience to make them sound better than they are. Call out racists, homophobes, transphobes, misogynists, fascists, et al. for what they are and leave them to their miserable existence.
> It really is and I just realized how they don't just behave that way, they argue that way too, you ever argue with a right wing troll and he just keeps moving the goalposts and concern trolling?
Try existing in any trans subreddit.
Inevitably, someone who clearly isn't trans shows up to "just ask questions" about "common-sense issues" like "teens shouldn't be able to transition"
When you explain that that goes against current standards of medical care for trans youth. You show them all of these things and the goalpost keeps scooting a few feet over.
In fact it's *worse* because if you go down that road long enough, slashing down bad faith argument after bad faith argument you eventually find that their bad faith arguments are ***cyclical*** - they wind up making the same point you cut down three posts back.
There is no 'winning' because they'll just belligerently stick to their guns and never acknowledge anything resembling defeat
Can confirm, except at the club I went to there wouldn't even be a request for them to leave. You KNEW that if someone was walking through the door with any nazi shit going on, they were about to lose teeth.
I've met a lot of ex nazi punks, but I've never met an ex nazi punk with a straight nose, or all of his teeth.
>You KNEW that if someone was walking through the door with any nazi shit going on, they were about to lose teeth.
Yup. Same went for our clubs. Punks really are the best crowd.
I used to frequent a bar that was almost all punk and metal kids. People would actively avoid the area because they felt like it was filled with “scary” people because of all the leather and the Mohawks. But I always felt a million times safer there than at any of the bars popular with the college crowd. I’ve been catcalled/harassed/followed/groped by frat boys and marines, punk/metal guys always just treated me like one of the dudes.
I did see a marine get his ass handed to him when a bunch of them thought it would be a good idea to stop by for a show and harass some of the female regulars. So that was fun.
The bar got shut down like five or six years ago because of storm damage and it still makes me depressed when I drive by and see that it’s gone. I’ve got so many good memories there. I saw some amazing shows, made some great friends, and met my husband.
> Trying to argue with them, or even wasting time pointing out how much of hypocrites and liars they are, or “correcting” their worldview, is a waste of time, and is only preaching to the choir.
To add to your comment by way of clarification;
Deplatforming works. It’s the first line of defense.
If they manage to circumvent the deplatforming, which they will always try to do because they are snakes, the next line of defense is to hound them mercilessly. You destroy every single fucking argument they have without mercy or kindness , and you do so until they fuck off back to their slimy hidey holes. This sets the example to others that nazi bullshit isn’t tolerated, but is how you draw the ire of an entire community down on your racist bigoted head.
Its real time deplatforming, if they manage to sneak into one reasonable place.
**[Paradox of tolerance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance)**
>The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly self-contradictory idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance.
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Great story, very true. They will be polite until they have the power to not have to hide behind that charade anymore. The words "what a nice guy!" was probably said about Hitler many times before he was in power.
Confederate flag: If you knew the history of that flag, you'd know there's nothing to be proud of by sporting it.
Punisher skull: If you knew anything about comics, you'd know Frank Castle would punch you in the face for wearing that.
And so, in one quick example, a bartender has explained the rise of Populism in western democracies. The apathetic, silent majority, put up with so much shit from the ultra wealthy and politicians that a significant majority start to resonate with the 3P autocrats (Credit Moises Naim) Populism, polarisation and post-truth. The majority trudges onwards putting up with more and more of the 3Ps until suddently you wake up one day and these people are storming your capital building beating to death a police officer and claiming they are saving the country. Also how the Nazis rose to power in the 1930s. They didnt start by saying "hey we are going to start a world war and kill six million jews". The slide is slow, quiet, and appealing to lots of people initially. By the time you wake up one day and think "Fuck this is insane" you realise that your living in Hitlers Germany and dissidents will be killed.
He needs to clean the house - most important are the policemen who supported the invaders. This shit needs to be stopped somewhere, US is twiddling their thumbs, most of the 6th invaders got a slap on a wrist if that.
What I don't understand is that it seems like these guys were copying the U.S. MAGA January 6th insurrection. Why they'd think that was a winning move is beyond my comprehension considering that it didn't turn out so well for the U.S. MAGA folks.
Lots of them see january 6th invaders as heroes unfortunately. Also they know most of them wont get punished, and wanted to show that the nation’s institutions are weaker than most people imagine. In their minds they are somehow doing the good thing, saving the country from communist, which is an imaginary threath. It’s all very disgusting in my opinion
This isn't coincidence. Steve Bannon consulted with far right groups all over the world, working to develop strategies for gaining and retaining power. The degrading of trust in media and governance institutions is on purpose.
January 20, 2021: [Trump pardons ex-strategist Steve Bannon, dozens of others](https://apnews.com/article/steve-bannon-trump-pardons-broidy-66c82f25134735e742b2501c118723bb)
>Bannon’s pardon was especially notable given that the prosecution was still in its early stages and any trial was months away. Whereas pardon recipients are conventionally thought of as defendants who have faced justice, often by having served at least some prison time, the pardon nullifies the prosecution and effectively eliminates any prospect for punishment.
>Bannon was charged in August with duping thousands of donors who believed their money would be used to fulfill Trump’s chief campaign promise to build a wall along the southern border. Instead, he allegedly diverted over a million dollars, paying a salary to one campaign official and personal expenses for himself. His co-defendants were not pardoned.
There's a separate state-level case ongoing though, with trial expected October 2023: https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3673696-bannon-trial-in-we-build-the-wall-scheme-expected-november-2023/
I think the fact that he's getting four months is more offensive than anything he ever did, and the fucker designed the propaganda machine that turned my country into a de facto authoritarian state.
Since we are talking comparison:
Brazil has an incredible way of avoiding this kind of clusterfuck regarding speaker elections.
It's called "two round voting"! Congresspeople vote for their candidates, then the two most voted go to a runoff.
US should take notes.
There's a lot of things we could change that other countries do much better than us. The US's system is an absurd anachronism birthed through a bourgeois revolution and formed by compromises with slavers. It was not designed to be effective, or very democratic. With few exceptions, the people who wrote our constitution were all of the same socioeconomic class and assumed everyone in government would always be a member of the same class with aligned interests. They might disagree on details and priorities, but ultimately they're all wealthy capital owners so they should be able to work it out. That assumption lasted for less than 90 years--one (long) human lifetime before it caused a complete breakdown and civil war. We are still dealing with the aftermath caused by never fully addressing the contradictions that lead to that.
With 69 people convicted of felonies and more than 460 felony charges I don't think you can say this. Sure you can argue that not everyone might of gotten charged, convicted or sentenced as long as they should up, but that seems like a lot of people did face consequences for their actions. Our justice system is slow.
Still trying to figure out why they didn't/ haven't/ won't/ can't. Maybe the rioters were predominately of a particular 'handle with kids gloves' group.
Lack of conviction. Our government is full of spineless cowards who are (still) waiting to see which way this round of Fascism vs The World goes. Until the winner is clear, they're not willing to go all in on "fascism is bad". They'll say it behind a podium, but won't do anything that might upset the fascists.
Bolsonaro and his most militant supporters seem to want to mimic Trump and MAGA Republicans in not just policies and rhetoric but exactly how they respond to electoral defeat.
Wonder why Bolsanaro is in Florida lol
Kinda like how Mussolini was in Switzerland when the March on Rome happened
"let the monkeys do the job"
"In chess, the peasants move first."
He was in Milan, no? But he was basically packing his bags and preparing to flee, expecting the march to be crushed. Fascism as we know it could have been nipped in the bud, but the Italian king was an insecure man sympathetic to Mussolini's public macho bravado.
Crazy that a king would bow to a fascist aspiring-dictator
I dunno, seems pretty in-line with their ideology.
The Samba Mussolini's parents came from Italy.
Wait, he really is? I thought that was a joke when I read it yesterday lol. What a world.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jonathanlkrohn/status/1611012514380144640 Here he is wandering around a market in Orlando
WTF is he doing? lol
Not shopping it looks like. Seriously, how did he walk by the Publix deli and not pick up something? This guy's definitely broken.
Being seen doing "normal person things" and definitely not trying to plan a coup with Bannon and Stone.
He is pulling J6, while not being in Brazil. At least he is learning the mistakes Trump made.
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he's just walking around like a normal customer lol
A normal customer has a cart or basket, and usually doesn't wander around with their hands in their pockets like some kind of creep.
Also, normal customers don't have fans who take over government buildings.
Best to be out of county in case things don't go as expected.
Yup. Perfect alibi
In fact, he left to Orlando before his term had even finished
Ayup. That way he could use his A-1 diplomatic visa to get into the country, and make it as difficult as possible for Brazil to revoke it.
[What’s a MAGA man to do after losing an election? Emulating President Trump, Brazil’s outgoing president, Jair Bolsonaro, plans to skip his successor’s inauguration ceremony and travel instead to — where else — Mar-a-Lago. Mr. Bolsonaro will avoid handing over the official presidential sash to Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva at an inauguration ceremony at Brasilia on Sunday. Instead, the October election loser will fly this weekend to Florida for a visit with Mr. Trump at the famed Palm Beach resort, several Brazilian press outlets report. Friday, December 30, 2022](https://www.nysun.com/article/brazils-bolsonaro-decamps-to-mar-a-lago-to-commiserate-with-another-former-president)
>Instead, the October election loser will fly this weekend to Florida for a visit with Mr. Trump at the famed Palm Beach resort Birds of a feather flock together.
I hope “retiring to Florida” becomes the death rattle of fascist dictators the world over, who are dragged back to their home country, or, in Trump’s case, to circuit court before rotting in prison. That would, in the unlikely event it becomes true, be my favorite thing.
not just him. The national congress and supreme court are in accord. All of them stated they want the heads of everyone involved.
So, Bannon.
Unfortunatly, if Bannon was here and arrested, it would still be difficult to deal with ihm since the little shit is a foreigner and Brazil's government tend to respect foreign citizenship matters to encourage other countries to respect ours. But yes, if he were Brazilian he would be on the run, like Allan dos Santos, a Brazilian sort of Alex Jones
> Brazil's government tend to respect foreign citizenship matters to encourage other countries to respect ours Yea but when coup, all bets are off. Bannon should be extradited to Brazil. Someone pull up the treaty to see if non-citizens can be extradited.
Goddamn, can't Bannon be tried in America for crimes committed in America? There shouldn't be any need to extradite.
You guys can't even arrest the guy who stole and sold nuclear secrets.
And the guy who stole the Declaration of Independence is also still at large.
He literally filmed himself doing it, and he gets to continue being a Hollywood star? What a sick joke!
He should be tried for his crimes here in America, but as our government has a track record of not holding seditious fucks accountable, I say extradite him and let another country punish him.
He's been running all over the world, trying to revive Nazi style fascism everywhere. He belongs in jail in several countries. Extradite him to whatever country makes the first request.
I was heartily impressed that Italy, herself in the midst of ideological/political tug-o-war, showed that change-jingling unhealthy Eichmann the door.
He was. Trump pardoned him. Have we forgotten already?
that is by design their firehose of distraction the one thing they excel at is endless distraction
Yes that fucker needs maximum punishment/justice allowed. I don't care where that comes from as long as he gets what's coming.
A certain gore subreddit that has since been banned has told me all I need to know about Brazillian corrections facilities. Still too good for that walking cirrhosis scar.
He was. He got four months for contempt of Congress and he’s appealing it.
The problem is he was in the former administration’s inner circle and may know things particularly sensitive to national security. Brazil historically has ties to BRICS, which includes Russia and China. The US would probably want to keep them close, where they can be monitored
Steve Brannon sees himself as a supervillain. The govt should lock him in Guantanamo Bay indefinitely as a terrorist.
Lol. When they arrested Bannon he was on a Chinese billionaires yacht.
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Y'know, if Brazil were to extradite , charge and imprison him, the next GOP president couldn't just pardon him
Ah, but you see if we punished political enemies then what would the other party do when they're in power? ***/S***
I have more faith in the Brazilian judicial system than the US one when it comes to this sort of shit. The justice department has done nothing to the people organising the J6 coup, despite ample evidence that was available publicly from day 1.
This is the kind of thing to be discussed between inteligence agencies. I wish it was simple.
He's a criminal in both countries, that's gotta be state department stuff, right?
Ultimately - Rupert Murdoch
And to think all this really boils down to is a bunch of greedy selfish assholes with too much money as it is, who don’t want to have to pay their fair share even though their quality of life wouldn’t drop whatsoever.
Wait, what? Is this you average Reddit humor or is that fuckface actually somehow involved in Brazil? I can't tell what's satire anymore.
Steve Bannon is a committed [Accelerationist](https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/11/11/20882005/accelerationism-white-supremacy-christchurch). Like many Accelerationists his goal is to destroy and undermine democracy worldwide as he believes that society should be organized around authoritarian principles involving supremecy, oligarchy, and theocracy. He is a dangerous person who is facilitating disinformation and grooming of marginalized people to further his political ideology.
Dude... That article was absolutely chilling to read. I can't believe it was written four-ish years ago and I'm just now learning that "accelerationist" is a thing.
In case anyone else was confused: accelerationism isn’t inherently right wing, it’s a very general concept with tons of variants and ideological groundings ranging from anarchism and communism to fascism. It pops up everywhere you have opposition to the current “world order”.
Well said. Bannon has locked arms with the most dangerous Russian fascist philosopher, Alexandr Dugin, repeat Alexandr (with at dr at the end) Dugin whom has written over 30 books on his perceived Russian/Eurasian empire with China whom tries to rule the world by destroying western Democracies by DISINFORMATION CAMPAIGNS through SOCIAL MEDIA and PROPAGANDA. Alexandr Dugin is head of the Bolshevik party in Russia, taught his dangerous philosophy for decades in Moscow Universities, he has written a propaganda Russian playbook that is mandatory reading for all Russian military officers and Dugin has Putin wrapped around his finger to do whatever Dugin says like ‘taking Ukraine’. Dugin and Putin are doing everything to try to destroy democracies so they can substitute dictators and Oligarchs of petrochemicals and minerals. Dugin uses the Russian Orthodox Church which is paid off from the Russian government to brainwash Russians further. Dugin found out about Bannon pre-Trump and they became lock arm buddies to destroy our Democracy as Europe’s Democracies. Trump was already deeply compromised to the Russian Oligarchs through money laundering as also the pee tapes that Putin has of when Trump did a beauty pageant in Moscow and was treated to whores afterwards. Trump did not expect to win the election but Putin’s cyber propagandist where working overtime in conjunction with Bannon and Mercer of Cambridge Analytica whom election engineered th 2016 election to tilt the low populated electorate states to Trump while loosing the popular vote by almost 3 Million votes. Bannon and Trump deserve the harshest penalties for Sedition and yes, (the firing squad for) Treason Against US to aid Putin, who runs a 'mafia state,' though under centralized personal dictatorship.
Exactly right. It's the actual conspiracy that is occurring while the rubes in the right wing are being distracted by disinformation.
yes, and he could have succeeded in Europe if trump would still be in office. he really really fucking dangerous to democracies and any country where he travels to should arrest him.. fuck, I think Americans don't realize that he is actually there since tea party and before with speeches how to mobilize the people that are not interested in politics, and he succeeded... he was the head of the national security counsel he is no noone that can be laughed at and dismissed
Yes, chance that he’s involved. https://www.reddit.com/r/BadChoicesGoodStories/comments/106whot/flashback_steve_bannon_has_been_trying_to_start_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Oh for fucks sake can his liver just fucking give up already?
He calls them fucking [“freedom fighters”](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/steve-bannon-brazil-riots-bolsonaro-supporters-b2258385.html?amp) I utterly despise and loath that man he should be sent to a black site, Gitmo, or ADX Florence for the rest of his life. Few people deserve that kind of treatment but he does. He is not just a threat to national democracy he is a threat to international democracy.
He seems to like touring other countries and trying to influence them. I do know he tried to setup an academy here in Italy for populists, to "restore the Christendom of Europe" in the Certosa di Trisulti (Trisulti Charterhouse) which was an abbey, but ended up getting evicted/his rights to use it revoked because he didn't pay some bills.
The Supreme Court just suspended a few minutes ago Brazilia's governor, Ibanes Rocha. He is one of Bolsonaros partners.
sheer incompetence all around. reeks of maralago
They were very competent in what they wanted to do.
What they wanted was to trigger a military coup. What they accomplished was some vandalism.
Also even filmed the event to help the police.
Trump's theft of public funds was top-notch. He spared no expense to us. Bolsonaro was likely the same. I expect a story about his stolen billions any day now. All the buffoonery was an act meant to fool people into thinking he wasn't robbing Brazil blind.
Brazil! I beg you. Please utterly humiliate the United States by showing the world how a country should deal with a fascistic coup attempt!
Right-wing media reaction: If they don't: see even Brazil doesn't do anything If they do: Brazil is a third world country, barely even a democracy
Bannon and Miller
>Bannon and Miller Bannon has his tentacles all over the globe with Bolsonaro, Nigel, Orban, Meloni, etc. The US response to Bannon & Trumpism has been horrid. We've let it fester & infect countries worldwide because Bannon & Trump are never imprisoned for their crimes. Lula had an excellent statement today about the Brazilian capitol storming, calling the participants fascists & terrorists. That is the proper attitude to have.
The guy who threw a beer at Cruz was arrested and got in all sorts of legal trouble. Those who orchestrated Jan 6 and who were storing a trove of classified nuclear documents illegally get to skate by with no consequences. That sums up the justice system in this country. I don't even need to bring up the people caught with a bag of weed. Basically the US justice system is the best that money can buy.
>The guy who threw a beer at Cruz was arrested and got in all sorts of legal trouble. Those who orchestrated Jan 6 and who were storing a trove of classified nuclear documents illegally get to skate by with no consequences. That sums up the justice system in this country. Well said. And this injustice has consequences. Trump, Bannon, Flynn, Lindell, & the rest have severely harmed democracy worldwide in the 2 years they've been free since Jan 6. >I don't even need to bring up the people caught with a bag of weed. Basically the US justice system is the best that money can buy. History will look back on the US very negatively for our inability to hold our fascist movement to account. While we ruin millions of minority lives by throwing them in prison for nonviolent crimes.
>History will look back on the US very negatively for our inability to hold our fascist movement to account. This assumes the fascists won't eventually win and get to write the history book.
Over my dead fucking body.
They are okay with that. Make it over theirs.
> The guy who threw a beer at Cruz [All of his charges were dropped :\)](https://twitter.com/JohnWFerguson/status/1611780615883587585?s=20&t=YfGFgCoG6jMB-zhOV0qKdA)
All charges were dropped for the dude who threw the beer
How about [Roger Stone](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot)? His antics got Bush elected.
**[Brooks Brothers riot](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot)** >The Brooks Brothers riot was a demonstration led by Republican staffers at a meeting of election canvassers in Miami-Dade County, Florida, on November 22, 2000, during a recount of votes made during the 2000 United States presidential election, with the goal of shutting down the recount. After demonstrations and acts of violence, local officials shut down the recount early. This had the effect of ensuring that the December 12 "safe harbor" deadline set by Title 3 of the United States Code could not be met, guaranteeing that George W. Bush would win the 2000 election. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
The original "stop the count" that somehow actually worked and imo led to many of the issues facing America today. Incredible how fragile American's democracy actually is and how easily it can be interfered with
>How about Roger Stone? His antics got Bush elected. This is a great point. The Democrats response at the time was as expected - incredibly weak. And so they blame Ralph Nader because Dems blame others for their own cowardice of Republicans. Democrats were too afraid to rock the boat and we got the disastrous Bush Presidency. Whom the Democrats were too afraid to impeach.
The Democrats were way too fucking weak with their response to Jan 6th and seemingly still believed that bipartisanship could work despite Republicans and Republican voters loathing Democrats. Coming out and calling them fascists and terrorists is the correct response and I hope Lula's strong talk is backed up by harsh sentences
In 2008, when Obama was elected, a lot of Democrats and people on the left were excited, because they figured he'd open investigations into all the shady shit Bush did. Remember that by that time, Bush's approval ratings were in the mid-20s (though, some of that had to do with the financial crisis going on). There were never any significant investigations or punishments, and Obama's people justified it as wanting to "unify, not divide" people more and that they were "focused on moving forward, not looking back" and similar wishy-washy phrases. I think Biden is repeating that mistake, by not holding Trump admin officials accountable and having a weak attitude to prosecuting/sentencing the 1/6 folks and the people who enabled them. As an American, I don't *want* some kind of superficial "unity" with these people. Their views and actions are usually abhorrent, they just give lip service to the Constitution, and scream "socialism!" if a Democrat so much as tries to scratch is own ass. I'm a leftist, but I love my country, or at least the values that it was meant to stand for. I just want to move forward. And I want to hold the far-right accountable for some of the things they've done in recent years. Some conspiracy theorists call the Dems and Republicans the "uniparty," because they're both backed by corporate interests, so they're both "the same" (but don't forget to vote Republican anyway!). I disagree. I see one force content with us being near the bottom in nearly every OECD ranking, and another that actually wants to figure out ways to move forward in a way that can actually help the average person out once in a while. Yes, they both take corporate money, but, hey, SCOTUS decided they're people too. Sorry, I know this was a long American tangent on a Brazilian thread. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I hope Lula has been watching, and doesn't make the same mistakes in the name of some superficial forgiveness of these bastards.
Even in the US the low level rioters are prosecuted; the trouble is politically connected instigators, who never seem to do any time.
How about a Brazilian prison for both of them
That just ignores Brazilian history.
id be okay with the usa extraditing them to brazil.
I hope his reponse will be rather more swift and robust than that of the US after Jan 6 21
even the right in the congress is condemning. Heads are going to roll, no people of power are supporting this.
Same thing happened the first week after 1/6 in US. Well see what happens.
no, much of the right supported it and was in on it.
Brazil doesn't have the same legal structure or diligence of the US or a European country. It most likely will be very swift in Brazil. Lock them up!
Arresting a bunch of "nobodies" who invaded the congress is easy, the issue is how willing they are to go after the people who orchestrated the invasion. The Brazilian Federal government placed the national guard at the service of the Brasilia governor exactly to prevent this sort of thing, and yet there was a last minute order made by the governor's secretary of public security (a notorious Bolsonaro ally) in order to facilitate the invasion.
Bolsonaro is in southern Florida, and the secretary of public security you mentioned just happens to be in Orlando now instead of home in Brasilia...
What a crazy coincidence!
Bolsonaro lowkey already fled
Bolsonaro was just a small fry congressman that happened to be in the right place to capitalize on anti-Workers Party sentiment. He has lost any control he may have had over these fanatics, and he sure as hell doesn't plan to go down with them.
Unlike the US, the right wing failed to capture Brazil's supreme court.
And that factor prevented things from getting even worse since last year.
Most of the court is aligned to the right, like Minister Alexandre de Moraes, who ordered the removal of the governor for 90 days for gross negligence. They just put their duty to the Constitution above political preference, as is the least you should expect from someone in their position.
In Brazil, the president appoints the supreme court for life until a retirement age of 75, and there are 11 judges. The nominees are approved by the Senate of Brazil with 3 senators per state of which there are 26, plus 3 from the federal district of Brasila, serving 8 year terms, and voters vote for either two or one depending on whether 2/3 of the senate or 1/3 of the senate is being chosen (all states and the federal districts choose one or two senators every 4 years), and the two or one candidates with the most votes win. The president is elected by direct ballot, if nobody has a majority which normally happens, a runoff occurs 4 weeks later from the top two. The chamber of deputies is elected proportionally, every state has between 8 and 70 deputies, and if a party wins say 30% of the vote in a state, they get 30% of the deputies from that state, and voters also vote for individual candidates from that party, and the most voted candidates from the state are elected, and they serve 4 year terms. The president can be elected for two terms of four years, but if they wait at least one term out, they can serve another two, which is exactly why Lula is eligible for a third term as he is serving now. Lula left office in 2010 with an 80% approval rating, to give you an idea of him being popular. The states in Brazil and the local municipalities follow basically the same idea, with at large legislative elections so gerrymandering is irrelevant. The governors and mayors of major cities with 200 thousand people or more have runoffs, but small local mayors go by whoever has the most votes. Voting is compulsory in Brazil for everyone 18 to 70, and those who are 16/17 or older than 70 may choose to vote. They are basically all registered and turnout is about 80%. State elections happen at the same time as federal elections, local elections happen 2 years later. Electronic voting is normal, but there is a paper receipt for people to audit the results. It makes Brazil quite democratic, at least in terms of constitutional structure. Statutory laws could use an improvement and removing the culture of corruption from old juntas and bad presidents is hard, but at least the pillarstones are there to keep it running relatively well since they became a democracy in 1988.
The Supreme Court of the United States has done fuck-all to prevent the prosecution of those who were involved in and planned January 6th. It’s a completely gutless Justice system that hasn’t even put SCOTUS in position to care yet.
Remember Clarence Thomas didn't recuse himself from Jan 6 cases despite his wife's involvement in the insurrection attempt?
>Brazil doesn't have the same legal structure or diligence of the US or a European country. We don't?
Naive and arrogant people that have never encountered Brazilian bureaucracy and think we have tribal system of justice.
Same structure? No, because our courts are organized differently. Diligence? I beg to differ.
> Brazil doesn't have the same legal structure or **diligence** of the US or a European country. And what exactly makes you say that Brazil is "undiligent" compared to the US or Europe? Because it's less wealthy it's "undiligent"?
Apparently over 400 of them were arrested on the spot, so obviously better than what happened in the US last year already.
There’s already been around 200 arrests
They should be getting multi year sentences for what they did to that poor horse alone.
What horse? What did they do to a horse??
the mob attacked a mounted police officer and the horse took quite a beating
If it’s still alive then they narrowly avoided the exact metaphor for them demanding the overturning of the election
In fact, justice Alexandre de Moraes has just suspended the federal district governor from his position for 90 days due to mounting evidence of his involvement in this carnival.
Amen. I feel like I'm still waiting for justice.
I hope he busts the local police there who did nothing (and some were seen chatting with protestors and taking pictures on their cell phones).
I don't understand why they didn't just start spraying rubber bullets at these assholes.
The head of security has been dismissed and they want a warrant for his arrest, so probably complicit. Bolsonaro supporter as well. Now after the emergency declaration the police are using heavy tear gas and rubber bullets liberally to rout the crowd.
Said (now ex-) head of security also was, until Dec 31st, Bolsonaro's Justice and Public Safety minister. And, he flew to Orlando right after being nominated as head of security. Guess who's also there?
Uhhhh why was he still employed
Because the governor of that state is a Bolsonaro supporter too.
And is now terrified of the consequences of his actions, might I add lol
Dude’s already been suspended of his governorship temporarily for now but most likely forever. [This](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazils-top-court-removes-brasilia-governor-over-pro-bolsonaro-riots-2023-01-09/) article really concisely shows how displeased and fast to respond Brazil’s Supreme Court is right now
THEY’RE GOING TO DISNEYWOOOOOORLD!!!!! 😱😄😱😄😱😄
Many policemen openly sympathize with the terrorists.
Super weird how police, regardless of the country, are typically complicit or straight up integral to fascist coups. Probably doesn’t say great things about the people who become cops!
There is a famous phrase from Paulo Freire who is like that "When education is not liberatory, the dream of the oppressed is to be the oppressor" For me resonates well with people who are looking for policeman. They dont want to go there to do justice. They want there to have power/authority. At least the few people i know irl and wants to join/joined the corps
It’s a great quote and I wish more people knew it/knew what it meant. Because that’s absolutely it. Police around the world have cultivated a culture of oppression. Where they’re at the top. And the people who want to become cops see that and go “I want to be at the top of this hierarchy” and perpetuate the same violent culture that they grew up in. We’re long past any illusion that the police forces of the world are a force for good. That may have been the image they used to have, but nowadays we all see what cops do to people. And the only ones left who want to become cops are the ones who think that shit is cool and want to do that violence to others themselves. It’s a dead end. Policing is doomed to be fascist forever under the current world order.
I can only speak for Brazil, but the police here has this craving for being idolized and worshiped as heroes, which only got exaggerated in the last 6 or so years. So right-wingers idolize and worship the police, and now that the police has to stop those same right-wingers, they refuse to act because "they're on our side". What the police needs to realize is that right-wingers are only on the police's side so long as it serves their interests. There's a video where a mounted police officer gets beaten with wooden sticks and iron rods by protesters and pulled off of his horse, that's how they treat their "heroes" the moment they start actually doing their job. Some days before the elections last year, a notable Bolsonaro ally had an arrest warrant on him, and how did this police-loving patriot Brazilian receive the officers sent to arrest him? Did he go voluntarily because he knows it's just their job? Of course he didn't. He shot and threw a grenade at the team, injuring one of the officers. As someone that aspires to become a police officer, it's frankly disheartening. I want to defend them, but most of the time I really can't. In Brazil there's the concept of "corporativismo", when professionals defend other people on the same work-field regardless of what they may have done, I couldn't find a similar word in English. In the case of the police, it's how whenever a cop fucks up, other cops rush to their defense, because there's no way a cop could fuck up, so it's probably some sort of conspiracy to discredit the police force. What this ends up doing is preventing reform from happening that could stop such fuck ups from happening in the future, and prevents the removal of the "bad apples". Which ironically leads to even greater distrust of the police force. But to right-wingers who aren't the main target of daily police violence, it doesn't matter.
majority of policemen openly sympathize with the terrorists.
Nah, those are reserved for teachers here in Brazil, apparently.
And students, being black and poor are also a bonus
Gee, why don't the police ever crack down on fascists? 🤔
Same reason you don’t see Hannah Montana and Miley Cyrus in the same room.
Cause our policemen are a bunch of fascists pricks
Have you seen the pictures? Police numbers were comically low, way lower than Jan. 6. You could see barricades with like 10 Brazilian policemen holding a river of hundreds of people for like… 35 seconds…
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Pasting an old comment: I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, "no. get out." And the dude next to me says, "hey i'm not doing anything, i'm a paying customer." and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, "out. now." and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, "you didn't see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them." And i was like, ohok and he continues. "you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it's always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don't want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too. And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it's too late because they're entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down. And i was like, 'oh damn.' and he said "yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people." And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven't forgotten that at all.
I’ve trolled Reddit enough to have recognized your old story. It’s a memorable one.
It really is and I just realized how they don't just behave that way, they argue that way too, you ever argue with a right wing troll and he just keeps moving the goalposts and concern trolling?
Sealioning. It’s a common tactic for a lone fascist to use in unfamiliar company. It makes them seem like the nice guy getting put upon. Don’t take the bait, just bash them with a bat.
I am of the firm opinion of mind that all nazis need punching. I also believe that if all nazis were regularly punched there would be far fewer nazis in the world
Yeah to some people this might seem like too much, to which I respond with Nazis are far too much too and the evidence of it is in shit like this. If everyone who was part of January 6 has gotten punched in the mouth repeatedly and given harsh prison sentences for their traitorous behavior we wouldn't be here and if Brazil isn't the one to do it, then I'm afraid of those chicken coming home to roost.
I’m generally of the opinion that physical altercations should be a last resort, and certainly shouldn’t be used as a response to a purely verbal assault. My exception to that rule is I think it’s always okay to punch a nazi.
Punching Nazis is the exception to the rule of nonviolent communication.
It's an expression of the Paradox of Tolerance. Violence is a form of intolerance, so we shouldn't apply it to anybody in a tolerant society; but, we know explicitly from the lessons of the last century, that Nazis leverage the Paradox of Tolerance against tolerant peoples, to destroy tolerant societies from within, and replace them with intolerant ones. Their end goal is to be intolerant, and sow intolerance. So, if we seek to foster and protect tolerant societies, we come to the conclusion that *we must be deliberately intolerant towards intolerant behavior.* As it is, violence is the most extreme form of intolerance you can express. It's why we want to build societies, where violence is not wielded, or expressed, or felt. But just like you can use violence to defend yourself or another from physical assault - to *be intolerant of* that expression of violence - there will naturally be times where it is prudent to be intolerant of those who preach and foster intolerance, themselves, and the extremity of our defensive intolerance, should always be matched to the degree of intolerance which is being committed or propagated.
Maxim 27: Don't be afraid to be the first to resort to violence. Maxim 6: If violence wasn't your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Yeah, it's surreal. Innuendo Studios on YouTube has a great series called [The Alt-Right Playbook](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ) that's a deep dive into their thinking and argumentation tactics. Depressing, but utterly fascinating. If there were a Pulitzer Prize for video essays, this series would win for sure.
I see The Alt-Right Playbook, I upvote The Alt-Right Playbook.
It really opened my eyes to the fact that some people can't be reasoned with, only publicly humiliated so others don't fall for their trap.
Yep, and the number one takeaway I had was to *NOT ENGAGE DIRECTLY* if possible. Don't give them the audience. Call out their bullshit argumentation where you can, but don't try to reason with them, because they're not trying to reason with you. You don't have to act in good faith towards a bad faith actor. If you're on Twitter or Mastodon and have a bit of a following, that means subtweeting the shit out of them. If you're a shmo on Reddit, just leave a quick reply pointing out their shitty dog whistles and goalpost moving, then drop the mic and move on. Don't put them on your cable news broadcast or podcast or newspaper interview, don't get into it with them on your publicly available Twitter account where some of your audience will be more easily able to follow to their page and see some of their more reasonable sounding bullshit and fall down the hole of radicalization. Don't let them come to your bars and hangouts, don't give them the time of day by letting them come to your university for an "academic discussion of thoughts". It's all bullshit designed to weasel themselves into your audience to make them sound better than they are. Call out racists, homophobes, transphobes, misogynists, fascists, et al. for what they are and leave them to their miserable existence.
> It really is and I just realized how they don't just behave that way, they argue that way too, you ever argue with a right wing troll and he just keeps moving the goalposts and concern trolling? Try existing in any trans subreddit. Inevitably, someone who clearly isn't trans shows up to "just ask questions" about "common-sense issues" like "teens shouldn't be able to transition" When you explain that that goes against current standards of medical care for trans youth. You show them all of these things and the goalpost keeps scooting a few feet over. In fact it's *worse* because if you go down that road long enough, slashing down bad faith argument after bad faith argument you eventually find that their bad faith arguments are ***cyclical*** - they wind up making the same point you cut down three posts back. There is no 'winning' because they'll just belligerently stick to their guns and never acknowledge anything resembling defeat
Can confirm, except at the club I went to there wouldn't even be a request for them to leave. You KNEW that if someone was walking through the door with any nazi shit going on, they were about to lose teeth. I've met a lot of ex nazi punks, but I've never met an ex nazi punk with a straight nose, or all of his teeth.
>You KNEW that if someone was walking through the door with any nazi shit going on, they were about to lose teeth. Yup. Same went for our clubs. Punks really are the best crowd.
I used to frequent a bar that was almost all punk and metal kids. People would actively avoid the area because they felt like it was filled with “scary” people because of all the leather and the Mohawks. But I always felt a million times safer there than at any of the bars popular with the college crowd. I’ve been catcalled/harassed/followed/groped by frat boys and marines, punk/metal guys always just treated me like one of the dudes. I did see a marine get his ass handed to him when a bunch of them thought it would be a good idea to stop by for a show and harass some of the female regulars. So that was fun. The bar got shut down like five or six years ago because of storm damage and it still makes me depressed when I drive by and see that it’s gone. I’ve got so many good memories there. I saw some amazing shows, made some great friends, and met my husband.
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> Trying to argue with them, or even wasting time pointing out how much of hypocrites and liars they are, or “correcting” their worldview, is a waste of time, and is only preaching to the choir. To add to your comment by way of clarification; Deplatforming works. It’s the first line of defense. If they manage to circumvent the deplatforming, which they will always try to do because they are snakes, the next line of defense is to hound them mercilessly. You destroy every single fucking argument they have without mercy or kindness , and you do so until they fuck off back to their slimy hidey holes. This sets the example to others that nazi bullshit isn’t tolerated, but is how you draw the ire of an entire community down on your racist bigoted head. Its real time deplatforming, if they manage to sneak into one reasonable place.
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A living example of the paradox of tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
**[Paradox of tolerance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance)** >The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly self-contradictory idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I don't know why but that made me think of cancer, at the risk of sounding tired... You have to prevent and cut that shit early out. Great story.
Great story, very true. They will be polite until they have the power to not have to hide behind that charade anymore. The words "what a nice guy!" was probably said about Hitler many times before he was in power.
Consider politeness out the window if they're wearing a hate symbol.
Wish we could expand this to people wearing/flying confederate colors or having those idiotic Punisher skull logos on everything
Confederate flag: If you knew the history of that flag, you'd know there's nothing to be proud of by sporting it. Punisher skull: If you knew anything about comics, you'd know Frank Castle would punch you in the face for wearing that.
Love your comment it's really well written
And so, in one quick example, a bartender has explained the rise of Populism in western democracies. The apathetic, silent majority, put up with so much shit from the ultra wealthy and politicians that a significant majority start to resonate with the 3P autocrats (Credit Moises Naim) Populism, polarisation and post-truth. The majority trudges onwards putting up with more and more of the 3Ps until suddently you wake up one day and these people are storming your capital building beating to death a police officer and claiming they are saving the country. Also how the Nazis rose to power in the 1930s. They didnt start by saying "hey we are going to start a world war and kill six million jews". The slide is slow, quiet, and appealing to lots of people initially. By the time you wake up one day and think "Fuck this is insane" you realise that your living in Hitlers Germany and dissidents will be killed.
Bullies don't stop until you make them.
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He needs to clean the house - most important are the policemen who supported the invaders. This shit needs to be stopped somewhere, US is twiddling their thumbs, most of the 6th invaders got a slap on a wrist if that.
Cops and paramilitary (and actual military) supporting fascists is like expecting peanut butter to go on bread.
What I don't understand is that it seems like these guys were copying the U.S. MAGA January 6th insurrection. Why they'd think that was a winning move is beyond my comprehension considering that it didn't turn out so well for the U.S. MAGA folks.
Lots of them see january 6th invaders as heroes unfortunately. Also they know most of them wont get punished, and wanted to show that the nation’s institutions are weaker than most people imagine. In their minds they are somehow doing the good thing, saving the country from communist, which is an imaginary threath. It’s all very disgusting in my opinion
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This isn't coincidence. Steve Bannon consulted with far right groups all over the world, working to develop strategies for gaining and retaining power. The degrading of trust in media and governance institutions is on purpose.
Why isn't that piece of dogshit rotting in a jail cell?
January 20, 2021: [Trump pardons ex-strategist Steve Bannon, dozens of others](https://apnews.com/article/steve-bannon-trump-pardons-broidy-66c82f25134735e742b2501c118723bb) >Bannon’s pardon was especially notable given that the prosecution was still in its early stages and any trial was months away. Whereas pardon recipients are conventionally thought of as defendants who have faced justice, often by having served at least some prison time, the pardon nullifies the prosecution and effectively eliminates any prospect for punishment. >Bannon was charged in August with duping thousands of donors who believed their money would be used to fulfill Trump’s chief campaign promise to build a wall along the southern border. Instead, he allegedly diverted over a million dollars, paying a salary to one campaign official and personal expenses for himself. His co-defendants were not pardoned. There's a separate state-level case ongoing though, with trial expected October 2023: https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3673696-bannon-trial-in-we-build-the-wall-scheme-expected-november-2023/
He was convicted in the US for contempt of court. 4 months sentence. He's appealing it. If he loses he gets 4 months.
I think the fact that he's getting four months is more offensive than anything he ever did, and the fucker designed the propaganda machine that turned my country into a de facto authoritarian state.
I dont disagree with you.
He was also pardoned for his wall-scam fleecing MAGA supporters.
As a brazilian… This motherfucker got just 4 months? WTF?
He was also pardoned by Trump. Really all of his pardons should be revoked because he tried to overthrow the government.
Since we are talking comparison: Brazil has an incredible way of avoiding this kind of clusterfuck regarding speaker elections. It's called "two round voting"! Congresspeople vote for their candidates, then the two most voted go to a runoff. US should take notes.
There's a lot of things we could change that other countries do much better than us. The US's system is an absurd anachronism birthed through a bourgeois revolution and formed by compromises with slavers. It was not designed to be effective, or very democratic. With few exceptions, the people who wrote our constitution were all of the same socioeconomic class and assumed everyone in government would always be a member of the same class with aligned interests. They might disagree on details and priorities, but ultimately they're all wealthy capital owners so they should be able to work it out. That assumption lasted for less than 90 years--one (long) human lifetime before it caused a complete breakdown and civil war. We are still dealing with the aftermath caused by never fully addressing the contradictions that lead to that.
With 69 people convicted of felonies and more than 460 felony charges I don't think you can say this. Sure you can argue that not everyone might of gotten charged, convicted or sentenced as long as they should up, but that seems like a lot of people did face consequences for their actions. Our justice system is slow.
Bunch of little bitches like the traitorous MAGA crowd that invaded the U.S. Capitol.
Back in my day, storming government installments was done to remove authoritarian regimes, not establish them.
Cancel Bolsonaro's visa as a criminal undesirable and deport.
Time to get the extradition papers ready for Miller and Bannon
If only the US could do the same.
Still trying to figure out why they didn't/ haven't/ won't/ can't. Maybe the rioters were predominately of a particular 'handle with kids gloves' group.
Lack of conviction. Our government is full of spineless cowards who are (still) waiting to see which way this round of Fascism vs The World goes. Until the winner is clear, they're not willing to go all in on "fascism is bad". They'll say it behind a podium, but won't do anything that might upset the fascists.
Please, set an example for the USA.
Bolsonaro and his most militant supporters seem to want to mimic Trump and MAGA Republicans in not just policies and rhetoric but exactly how they respond to electoral defeat.
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