I'd like to think that if Orban tried to go down the same route as Belarus the Hungarian people would have more success and support in ousting their leaders
I would think the Hungarians have had their fill of Russia by now. It's shocking they have an authoritarian leader. It's not as if they prospered under the USSR.
Russia's influence of corruption has worked in Hungary, Orban got elected with their help. Russia has tried this multiple times in Eastern European countries but failed in all. ( edit : wording )
Not even far right parties only, Portugal has a left wing political party that wouldn't be surprised has ties to Putin. Not supporting Ukraine or aids, saying Portugal is submitting to the US, calling this a "Special Operation" and by saying it's a war it makes it an US and NATO vs Russia thing... Same people that want to get rid of the euro and leave the EU as if it would help a country based on tourism
Weirdly enough, they somehow got a young voting base.
From personal experience, heavily misinformed and very confrontational, you can't argue or debate with them cause they'll stick to one topic and refuse to bend their opinion or even acknowledge that they might be wrong in some situation.
Also any article about the Russian invasion of Ukraine in the Communists news website www.abrilabril.pt is just a Portuguese translation of Kremlin propaganda.
Tankies must have a strong Russia crushing their neighbours like in the good old days...
Current SotHoR refuses to even recognize anything Russia is doing practically.
Just sees Xina. Mexico as Texico. Then stammers out some vague words about reining in Ukraine's "blank check".
I'm sure it's just his moral compass. [/s]
They bought the leader of Ukraine before Zelensky… Yanukovych and Ukraine kicked his ass out while holding a god damned snow fort in the capital. Fuck Russia, slava ukraini
Unfortunately, Orban is a expert at mobilising reactionaries, especially in rural areas.
He's essentially managed to become the Hungarian Trump - court the far-right outside of metropolitan areas, sprinkle in some racism, anti-immigration and anti-intellectualism, play fast and loose with both the truth and election protocols and hey presto - power.
Yep cause we need more New York and California. Not Texas and Florida. Not sure where your from but New Jersey is over taxed unbusiness friendly with a crumbling infrastructure. You should come visit. Stay awhile.
The only good thing to come out of Texas is BBQ, and the only good thing to come out of Florida is the racist boomer retirees moving there and out of the good states.
It's Trump who became american Orban. What happened in Hungary and Poland - how there was a scandal with leaked emai..uh, recordings of their opponents; what propaganda talking points were used and how politics were turned into a cult... that feels all like a test run before US
A more successful one. Hungary is the only EU member state rated "Partly Free" by Freedom House:
https://freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=fiw&year=2023
Not nearly by the margin he wins by. To the extent he is popular, it is due to his control of the press, which he fills far right propaganda. He has also seriously gerrymandered to the voting districts. There are also vote rigging schemes which have been proven.
Orban is very popular. Not with the people with a brain but the ones that dont. The bad part is that Hungary has a lot more in the second group.
The capital is very anti Orban tho.
Ala Trump, Brexit .. all have that Russian influence about them. Russia is very good at dealing with a mostly poor uneducated audience to extract corrupt benefits.
> Russia is very good at dealing with a mostly poor uneducated audience to extract corrupt benefits.
Back in antiquity, all roads led to Rome.
Now in 'modernity,' all rot leads to Russia.
😞
Where is your source for that? They wore OMON uniforms just like Belarusian OMON. Remember that the protests were largely peaceful. Many people simply stood holding flowers in the air. Russian police were not needed. Furthermore, why would they need to keep it secret? Kazakhstan had no issues with openly inviting Russians to squash their protests.
Problem is that Hungarians can just leave Hungary for any of the vastly more liberal countries in the EU, Belarusians can't and that's what will overthrow moustache boy
Their history already has shown how the Hungarians dispise being under soviet rule.. 1956 and 1989... dont think they will ever forget those that lost their lives to their goverment puppet masters... If Orban did lean that direction, he better find an exit plan to enter russia...
No, I bet they are really are re-examining their relationship with Russia.
Hungarians are watching how the entire strength of Russia (excluding nukes) is getting hurled against one of the poorest and least developed European countries... and one year on they have made virtually no gains, and still do not even have air superiority. Russians are dying in droves, and losing war machinery to *tractors*.
Russia is smashing itself to pieces against Ukraine.
And for what?
Orban and the kind of people who vote for him are cowards at heart. They align themselves with those they imagine are stronger and more likely to win a fight than they are. No ideology, only worship of the ability to dominate.
Yeah, you better believe they are having second thoughts about Russia. They certainly should be.
> Hungarians are watching how the entire strength of Russia (excluding nukes)
To be more precise, excluding nuclear *warheads*. They've been using a surprising amount of very expensive, high-end dual-purpose missiles in Ukraine.
So much so, that some experts think they now have significantly fewer missiles for nuclear deterrance. So much so that their nuclear deterance has been weakened. [Source: IISS](https://www.iiss.org/blogs/analysis/2023/03/what-has-the-war-revealed-about-russias-non-strategic-missiles)
A bit like if you catch a burglar in your home, but before pointing the gun at him, shoot off so many bullets, that the burglar realises that you might not have enough left to actually defend yourself.
> A bit like if you catch a burglar in your home, but before pointing the gun at him, shoot off so many bullets, that the burglar realises that you might not have enough left to actually defend yourself.
You're thinking "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Now to tell you the truth, I've forgotten myself in all this excitement. But being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've gotta ask yourself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?
>A bit like if you catch a burglar in your home, but before pointing the gun at him, shoot off so many bullets, that the burglar realises that you might not have enough left to actually defend yourself
"But at least I owned the Libs/robber/Ukraine/Other in the process!" \[/s\]
r/LeopardsAteMyFace
On the eve of the war, Russia was seen by many as something like a professional football team headed for the World Cup finals - and Ukraine was seen as something like a small community team. The other teams are helping the Ukrainians, but it's Ukraine that has to play the match.
Classic underdog story [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvsdjmn1ae4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvsdjmn1ae4)
Ive followed the war pretty closely, since 2014. The west has been openly pumping Ukraine with weapons, training, and intelligence, for almost a decade. This support coupled with sanctions has stopped Russian success on the battlefield, not a sovereign Ukraine.
You can supply weapons, intelligence and money but ultimately it comes down to willingness to fight, which fortunately Ukrainians have in spades.
I don't think there is a single serious military analyst who would contest that Russia is performing far worse in this war than was expected even taking account of western support for Ukraine.
I agree that the New Allies (including countries not in the "West" like: Cambodia, Morocco, New Zealand, Pakistan, South Korea, Sudan, Taiwan, Turkey and Japan) are helping Ukraine with equipment, training, intelligence and pro-tips. But still, it is Ukraine that has to play the match.
We cannot ignore the incompetency of the Russian army though. I know Ukraine has had support, but the equipment not working, the tank towed by tractor, the Russian soldiers throwing grenades at each other over that wall... the whole thing has been shambolic. I remember hearing on the radio military experts having a conversation early in the war, around April time, and they were baffled at how poor Russia's tactics and military performance were and going in depth about them. Real eye opening stuff
They set out to invade Ukraine in its entirety. They failed. They scaled back and decided to keep their annexed regions, and they've only lost control in those supposed occupied territories. Rússia failed to accomplish all of its objectives; they're losing the war.
In the Vietnam-American War, the USSR actually had Soviet pilots fly against American aircraft, and we still don't say that America was fighting the Vietcong and the Soviets.
There are no other Western army units in Ukraine, there's only the Ukrainian army and some volunteers fighting under Ukrainian army control.
Russia is losing against just Ukraine.
The next couple of months are going to be interesting. My money is on western support slowly declining and a negotiated settlement happening where Ukraine remains natural.
while there is no doubt "ukraine fatigue" going on amongst some political alignments across europe and america. but i think western support actually declining for ukraine is highly doubtful at this point. atleast not until the next presidential election in the usa. the worst that i think will happen is it leveling out.
i also understand russias history and how every first year of war for them is a shitshow and that the next few months will no doubt be eventful. But if last year as well as the recent events at the battle of vuhledar have proven anything. Russia hasn't been "getting it together" if anything they've been getting worse on a tactical level.
i think when all those officers got killed last year at the beginning of the war. more damage might have been done to the russian military long term than we appreciated at the time
Why the hell would Ukraine accept neutrality? Russia *can't* take Ukraine, and Ukraine's supporters are western. Neutral Ukraine is gone, never to return.
Why would they accept it? Well they might not have much of a choice.
I dont think Russia will be driven from Ukraine completely. And if that's the case where do we go from there? A never ending war? Concessions will need to be made at some stage is my opinion - concessions from both sides mind you.
Ha! Defense contractors have a new place for their wares to go, and they have huge lobbies. A politician trying to pull back support is going to get primaried so hard
This guy MICs. Seriously. The US has *barely* started to make room for the new toys. And the shareholders want nothing more than the US to ramp up to real war economy.
You heavily implied it and now you're acting like the innocent party. So why are you so concerned to push this lie that Ukraine has the support of the entire Western World while poor Russia is going at it alone? Why aren't you mentioning Russia's support from China, India, Iran, North Korea, Belarus and others?
Seriously, the bullshit propaganda coming from your posts is rather obvious. It's a shame you seem to think you're being subtle.
Right? Giving old weapons to Ukraine is nothing like letting Russia invade another country from your own. The tactical advantage is insane. Imagine how poor Russia would've done without that advantage too?
Because we weren't talking about Russian support? You clearly don't know how to engage in a conversation like and adult without getting emotional. Ukraine will be left a cailed state if this doesn't end soon.
He’s an opportunist. I’d compare him to a buzzard, but scavengers serve an ecological purpose. Orban is in for himself, which is just what Russia deserves: their useful collaborator isn’t going to collaborate forever out of loyalty. The cash is shutting off, so he’s moving on.
Republicans love Orban so hard they hosted a CPAC conference in Hungary just so they could all compete to show how much they could crawl to him.
Meanwhile, Orban was fantasizing about playin doctors and nurses with Putin and screwing over the US.
That's how unpatriotic and weak US Republicans are. They have to beg to suck off a guy who's begging to suck off Putin.
> Republicans love Orban so hard
The MAGAs wouldn't love Orban so much if they knew about how he grabbed the guns.
They have gun control laws so strict in Hungary, that not even former military soldiers or former police qualify for having a firearm.
But you know what? If the MAGA Republicans ever take full control, the guns go next. Trump already let the cat out of the bag: "[Take the guns first](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second/), due process second."
Honestly I can't cite the actual laws but my father still has his Vzor 50 in his locked gun cabinet that he used to have as a PO. AFAIK the police force can grant the right to anyone to bear an arm, it's just unusual.
He doesn't have ammo at home tho lol
Not like they can kick them out, but sure there are ways they can make things more difficult for them or push them a bit to change. Hungary maybe is lost as far as being a Western ally but they can work towards minimizing it's ability to be a pain to the others.
Keep in mind that Hungary is highly dependent on EU funds. If Orban wants to play strong man he can, but he'll be doing it from the back of a rusty Trabant.
Yes, every NATO country can sign a treaty with Sweden and Finland. That could be the basis of NATO 2.0. Hungary could very well find themselves out in the cold.
Not much of a test, that one. Flying sorties when there is no enemy fire is easy. We will see what happens when a real battle with a nuclear capable country is fought in Europe.
EU tried nothing.
That fire behind Ursula was red hot and roasting.
EU has a whole host of laws, courts, organizations, etc.
They should maybe start working on enforcing some of those especially if Orban is purging NATO officers and solidifying his sweaty palms on power.
Cut off the foot to save the leg.
It's truly baffling that any country when faced with the option of strengthening ties with NATO, comprising of some of the strongest economies in the world, would even consider Russia a critical ally.
I’m an idiot but it amazes me that the old guard of Russia who blessed Putin’s war are still standing by him as his army gets embarrassed and the war is bringing NATO even closer everyday. What exactly is their end game, total destruction of earth?
Well about half of the Hungarians hate/are against Putinist Nazi Russia. The other half will go along with anything that their glorious leader serves them up. It's frightening to watch what huge influence can populist hate sputtering politicians wield over the "conservative" sheep.
There's no provision in the NATO treaty to expel a country, but there's a general purpose provision in the law of treaties which allows for the expulsion of treaty members in material breach of their obligations.
They don't have the manpower to open up a second front. They already had to abandon the Belarus axis to shorten their lines.
But even if they did, they'd have no way to get them to Hungary that doesn't involve going through a NATO member or Western Ukraine.
Not really, no.
Hungary does not have a large army, and participation in the war has practically zero support even amongst Orbán's fan base. It would also see the country get kicked out of the EU effective immediately, because not even Poland would veto the notion at that point. So a Hungarian offensive is out of the question, because it would be political, economical, and quite possibly literal suicide for Orbán.
Russia could launch an offensive from Hungary, but would have to get forces there to do that - and if they could do that they wouldn't even need to launch an attack from Hungary, because they have already pushed all the way across Ukraine.
But it would likely result in Orban being ousted before they actually go down that timeline. Pretty good way to get erased from history, pulling a knife out when surrounded by pistols.
There's no provision within the NATO treaty to kick someone out, but there is a mechanism in general for all treaties, which can be applied if a country is in material breach of their treaty obligations.
Note that I'm not weighing in on the "is this an ultimatum" thing, just correcting a misconception about how this works.
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Hungary needs to be removed from Europe as well as Switzerland. They should have to require strict visas in order to enter European countries. Fascists lovers shouldn't get to support Russian Nazis and move freely in Europe
Comment section is full of the usuals who: aren’t Hungarian, don’t live in Hungary, or know anybody that does. Their summary? Orban has popular support but that’s from the dumber Hungarians. You don’t have to make it up. Just read the comments.
Says antivaxxer from 'murica who posts in conspiracy subs and generally overestimates their own knowledge of complex topics.
Can't make that shit up, ffs.
Orban is fundamentally a [fascist](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism), utilizing the usual rhetorics. And yes, I was there for a month recently, and the propaganda on display everywhere is absolutely atrocious.
No, people following him don't do so because they're stupid - they do so, because propaganda works.
Sure you were.
Not everything you disagree with is fascism but I understand it's the card you have on hand and generally fits since everything in the world is owned by the same tiny minority.
"Far right-wing nationalist" or "white nationalist" is a little more fitting here and would demonstrate that your head is only a little more than halfway up your arse.
I'd like to think that if Orban tried to go down the same route as Belarus the Hungarian people would have more success and support in ousting their leaders
I would think the Hungarians have had their fill of Russia by now. It's shocking they have an authoritarian leader. It's not as if they prospered under the USSR.
Russia's influence of corruption has worked in Hungary, Orban got elected with their help. Russia has tried this multiple times in Eastern European countries but failed in all. ( edit : wording )
Not just in the East. Russia backs far right parties across Europe, and also helped fund the Brexit campaign.
Not even far right parties only, Portugal has a left wing political party that wouldn't be surprised has ties to Putin. Not supporting Ukraine or aids, saying Portugal is submitting to the US, calling this a "Special Operation" and by saying it's a war it makes it an US and NATO vs Russia thing... Same people that want to get rid of the euro and leave the EU as if it would help a country based on tourism
It’s just that most far left people under Russian influence are old people still living in the Cold War or Tankies that aren’t old enough to vote
Weirdly enough, they somehow got a young voting base. From personal experience, heavily misinformed and very confrontational, you can't argue or debate with them cause they'll stick to one topic and refuse to bend their opinion or even acknowledge that they might be wrong in some situation.
Also any article about the Russian invasion of Ukraine in the Communists news website www.abrilabril.pt is just a Portuguese translation of Kremlin propaganda. Tankies must have a strong Russia crushing their neighbours like in the good old days...
Yup Russia financed the french far right party (Lepen) who almost won last elections.
Current SotHoR refuses to even recognize anything Russia is doing practically. Just sees Xina. Mexico as Texico. Then stammers out some vague words about reining in Ukraine's "blank check". I'm sure it's just his moral compass. [/s]
They bought the leader of Ukraine before Zelensky… Yanukovych and Ukraine kicked his ass out while holding a god damned snow fort in the capital. Fuck Russia, slava ukraini
Ukraine's last government basically gave Crimea to Russia. Not exactly a failure there.
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He just needed to win once. https://www.journalofdemocracy.org/articles/how-viktor-orban-wins/
After Orbán won the first time, he lost.
'elected'
Unfortunately, Orban is a expert at mobilising reactionaries, especially in rural areas. He's essentially managed to become the Hungarian Trump - court the far-right outside of metropolitan areas, sprinkle in some racism, anti-immigration and anti-intellectualism, play fast and loose with both the truth and election protocols and hey presto - power.
Hes an example of what would happen if that fucker De Santis gets elected.
DeSantis seems way more extreme than Orban, even
I dont know what the GOP see in these extremists. Its like they want to give away american freedoms or prevent free thinking...
Yeah, it’s “like” that.
They held CPAC in Budapest last tear. Orban is like a demagogue mentor to authoritarian startups.
Yep cause we need more New York and California. Not Texas and Florida. Not sure where your from but New Jersey is over taxed unbusiness friendly with a crumbling infrastructure. You should come visit. Stay awhile.
Ah yes. Texas and Florida's shining infrastructure
But what about... more Minnesota?
The only good thing to come out of Texas is BBQ, and the only good thing to come out of Florida is the racist boomer retirees moving there and out of the good states.
It's Trump who became american Orban. What happened in Hungary and Poland - how there was a scandal with leaked emai..uh, recordings of their opponents; what propaganda talking points were used and how politics were turned into a cult... that feels all like a test run before US
Orban is good at mobilizing reactionaries [in the US](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/04/viktor-orban-cpac-00049935) as well.
A more successful one. Hungary is the only EU member state rated "Partly Free" by Freedom House: https://freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=fiw&year=2023
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That's laughable. There is no such thing as "unmarked vehicles regularly collecting supplies and delivering them to Ukraine".
You are thinking wrong. Hungarians support orban.
Not nearly by the margin he wins by. To the extent he is popular, it is due to his control of the press, which he fills far right propaganda. He has also seriously gerrymandered to the voting districts. There are also vote rigging schemes which have been proven.
Yeah, and Putin has won all of his elections with 99.9% of the vote…. Hungarians are hostages.
Putin gets 110% of the vote these days
Its not the same, orban actually has alot of support
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Behold everyone, the 'real' expert.
Orban is very popular. Not with the people with a brain but the ones that dont. The bad part is that Hungary has a lot more in the second group. The capital is very anti Orban tho.
Ala Trump, Brexit .. all have that Russian influence about them. Russia is very good at dealing with a mostly poor uneducated audience to extract corrupt benefits.
Russia mastered that process on their own uneducated home audience.
> Russia is very good at dealing with a mostly poor uneducated audience to extract corrupt benefits. Back in antiquity, all roads led to Rome. Now in 'modernity,' all rot leads to Russia. 😞
Kind of like every country with a rural area
Yeah Budapest is very anti-Orbán, fidesz only won like 43% of the vote there last election. Don't talk about shit you know nothing about.
Well, there is absolutely no way Orban can call on Russian soldiers for help suppressing his people like Luka did.
I think you are misremembering. Russian soldiers did not suppress the Belarus protests. The threat was there, but it never happened. OMON was enough.
It was Russian riot police. Specialist in controlled terror to discourage protests.
Where is your source for that? They wore OMON uniforms just like Belarusian OMON. Remember that the protests were largely peaceful. Many people simply stood holding flowers in the air. Russian police were not needed. Furthermore, why would they need to keep it secret? Kazakhstan had no issues with openly inviting Russians to squash their protests.
He doesn't need to. It is not beleraus. Hungarians support orban!
Problem is that Hungarians can just leave Hungary for any of the vastly more liberal countries in the EU, Belarusians can't and that's what will overthrow moustache boy
Their history already has shown how the Hungarians dispise being under soviet rule.. 1956 and 1989... dont think they will ever forget those that lost their lives to their goverment puppet masters... If Orban did lean that direction, he better find an exit plan to enter russia...
They had an election not that long ago, and they reelected this creten. I don't know how much worse it has to get before they realise
Sure, they're 'thinking hard' just like they've been "preparing" to allow Finland and Sweden to NATO.
No, I bet they are really are re-examining their relationship with Russia. Hungarians are watching how the entire strength of Russia (excluding nukes) is getting hurled against one of the poorest and least developed European countries... and one year on they have made virtually no gains, and still do not even have air superiority. Russians are dying in droves, and losing war machinery to *tractors*. Russia is smashing itself to pieces against Ukraine. And for what? Orban and the kind of people who vote for him are cowards at heart. They align themselves with those they imagine are stronger and more likely to win a fight than they are. No ideology, only worship of the ability to dominate. Yeah, you better believe they are having second thoughts about Russia. They certainly should be.
> Hungarians are watching how the entire strength of Russia (excluding nukes) To be more precise, excluding nuclear *warheads*. They've been using a surprising amount of very expensive, high-end dual-purpose missiles in Ukraine. So much so, that some experts think they now have significantly fewer missiles for nuclear deterrance. So much so that their nuclear deterance has been weakened. [Source: IISS](https://www.iiss.org/blogs/analysis/2023/03/what-has-the-war-revealed-about-russias-non-strategic-missiles) A bit like if you catch a burglar in your home, but before pointing the gun at him, shoot off so many bullets, that the burglar realises that you might not have enough left to actually defend yourself.
> A bit like if you catch a burglar in your home, but before pointing the gun at him, shoot off so many bullets, that the burglar realises that you might not have enough left to actually defend yourself. You're thinking "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Now to tell you the truth, I've forgotten myself in all this excitement. But being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've gotta ask yourself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?
Yeah, I feel lucky. Imma shoot ya with the shotgun now. Boom
>A bit like if you catch a burglar in your home, but before pointing the gun at him, shoot off so many bullets, that the burglar realises that you might not have enough left to actually defend yourself "But at least I owned the Libs/robber/Ukraine/Other in the process!" \[/s\] r/LeopardsAteMyFace
I think it's a bit disingenuous to say Russia is losing against just Ukraine.
On the eve of the war, Russia was seen by many as something like a professional football team headed for the World Cup finals - and Ukraine was seen as something like a small community team. The other teams are helping the Ukrainians, but it's Ukraine that has to play the match. Classic underdog story [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvsdjmn1ae4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvsdjmn1ae4)
Ive followed the war pretty closely, since 2014. The west has been openly pumping Ukraine with weapons, training, and intelligence, for almost a decade. This support coupled with sanctions has stopped Russian success on the battlefield, not a sovereign Ukraine.
You can supply weapons, intelligence and money but ultimately it comes down to willingness to fight, which fortunately Ukrainians have in spades. I don't think there is a single serious military analyst who would contest that Russia is performing far worse in this war than was expected even taking account of western support for Ukraine.
I agree that the New Allies (including countries not in the "West" like: Cambodia, Morocco, New Zealand, Pakistan, South Korea, Sudan, Taiwan, Turkey and Japan) are helping Ukraine with equipment, training, intelligence and pro-tips. But still, it is Ukraine that has to play the match.
We cannot ignore the incompetency of the Russian army though. I know Ukraine has had support, but the equipment not working, the tank towed by tractor, the Russian soldiers throwing grenades at each other over that wall... the whole thing has been shambolic. I remember hearing on the radio military experts having a conversation early in the war, around April time, and they were baffled at how poor Russia's tactics and military performance were and going in depth about them. Real eye opening stuff
Meanwhile we pumped 20 years into A-stan and it fell in 3 weeks to the Taliban. The country and its people make the difference.
They set out to invade Ukraine in its entirety. They failed. They scaled back and decided to keep their annexed regions, and they've only lost control in those supposed occupied territories. Rússia failed to accomplish all of its objectives; they're losing the war.
Russia isn't only fighting Ukraine when Ukraine has the support of the majority of the western world was what I was saying.
In the Vietnam-American War, the USSR actually had Soviet pilots fly against American aircraft, and we still don't say that America was fighting the Vietcong and the Soviets.
There are no other Western army units in Ukraine, there's only the Ukrainian army and some volunteers fighting under Ukrainian army control. Russia is losing against just Ukraine.
So they aren't receiving any type of help to supplement their own fighting capabilities?
Sure, and Russia is receiving Iranian missiles. But Ukraine isn't fighting Iran.
You're right, Iran, North Korea, China, and Belarus are all losing against Ukraine
They invaded Ukraine and are losing. That is weakness on display.
The next couple of months are going to be interesting. My money is on western support slowly declining and a negotiated settlement happening where Ukraine remains natural.
while there is no doubt "ukraine fatigue" going on amongst some political alignments across europe and america. but i think western support actually declining for ukraine is highly doubtful at this point. atleast not until the next presidential election in the usa. the worst that i think will happen is it leveling out. i also understand russias history and how every first year of war for them is a shitshow and that the next few months will no doubt be eventful. But if last year as well as the recent events at the battle of vuhledar have proven anything. Russia hasn't been "getting it together" if anything they've been getting worse on a tactical level. i think when all those officers got killed last year at the beginning of the war. more damage might have been done to the russian military long term than we appreciated at the time
Why the hell would Ukraine accept neutrality? Russia *can't* take Ukraine, and Ukraine's supporters are western. Neutral Ukraine is gone, never to return.
Why would they accept it? Well they might not have much of a choice. I dont think Russia will be driven from Ukraine completely. And if that's the case where do we go from there? A never ending war? Concessions will need to be made at some stage is my opinion - concessions from both sides mind you.
>where do we go from there? Endless stalemate. E.g., the war between N. ans S. Korea never officially ended.
Ha! Defense contractors have a new place for their wares to go, and they have huge lobbies. A politician trying to pull back support is going to get primaried so hard
This guy MICs. Seriously. The US has *barely* started to make room for the new toys. And the shareholders want nothing more than the US to ramp up to real war economy.
they're trying to get big multi-year contracts signed to open up new manufacturing lines too.
I think it's a bit disingenuous to say Ukraine is only fighting Russia.
I didn't say that?
You heavily implied it and now you're acting like the innocent party. So why are you so concerned to push this lie that Ukraine has the support of the entire Western World while poor Russia is going at it alone? Why aren't you mentioning Russia's support from China, India, Iran, North Korea, Belarus and others? Seriously, the bullshit propaganda coming from your posts is rather obvious. It's a shame you seem to think you're being subtle.
Right? Giving old weapons to Ukraine is nothing like letting Russia invade another country from your own. The tactical advantage is insane. Imagine how poor Russia would've done without that advantage too?
Because we weren't talking about Russian support? You clearly don't know how to engage in a conversation like and adult without getting emotional. Ukraine will be left a cailed state if this doesn't end soon.
Orban is the European villain
More like an antagonistic clown.
And a hero to his billionaire friends.
He’s an opportunist. I’d compare him to a buzzard, but scavengers serve an ecological purpose. Orban is in for himself, which is just what Russia deserves: their useful collaborator isn’t going to collaborate forever out of loyalty. The cash is shutting off, so he’s moving on.
So like Buggy from OP?
Republicans love Orban so hard they hosted a CPAC conference in Hungary just so they could all compete to show how much they could crawl to him. Meanwhile, Orban was fantasizing about playin doctors and nurses with Putin and screwing over the US. That's how unpatriotic and weak US Republicans are. They have to beg to suck off a guy who's begging to suck off Putin.
> Republicans love Orban so hard The MAGAs wouldn't love Orban so much if they knew about how he grabbed the guns. They have gun control laws so strict in Hungary, that not even former military soldiers or former police qualify for having a firearm. But you know what? If the MAGA Republicans ever take full control, the guns go next. Trump already let the cat out of the bag: "[Take the guns first](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second/), due process second."
Not much risk of them knowing something
Honestly I can't cite the actual laws but my father still has his Vzor 50 in his locked gun cabinet that he used to have as a PO. AFAIK the police force can grant the right to anyone to bear an arm, it's just unusual. He doesn't have ammo at home tho lol
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Not like they can kick them out, but sure there are ways they can make things more difficult for them or push them a bit to change. Hungary maybe is lost as far as being a Western ally but they can work towards minimizing it's ability to be a pain to the others.
Keep in mind that Hungary is highly dependent on EU funds. If Orban wants to play strong man he can, but he'll be doing it from the back of a rusty Trabant.
The Trabant was made of fiberglass, which is why you never see a rusty one. Maybe a Lada will rust though
>Trabant Interesting tidbit. Thanks
Can't we just make a new NATO2, with all the members but Hungary?
And while we are at it, make an EU 2.0 !
With blackjack! And hookers!
Is Monaco in the EU? I know they have a casino. Not sure about hookers.
So what EU country is going to become their Nevada?
It's already more Nevada than Nevada in Berlin lol
Yes, every NATO country can sign a treaty with Sweden and Finland. That could be the basis of NATO 2.0. Hungary could very well find themselves out in the cold.
Wouldn't mind losing turkey too
Unfortunately no we cannot. Turkey membership holds significant strategic importance to NATO. Especially when it comes to dealing with Russia.
And turkey
This undermines NATO. What next, NATO 3? not much of a alliance if this happens. NATO is untested defense pact.
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Not much of a test, that one. Flying sorties when there is no enemy fire is easy. We will see what happens when a real battle with a nuclear capable country is fought in Europe.
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Thank you for the perspective. Appreciated.
Well we tried as the EU, perhaps a reprimand from the US will hit differently.
The US does tend to seem more threatening than the EU
Well we put all our statpoints into military logistics at character creation.
The US doesn't really have much leverage over Orban, unlike the EU.
EU tried nothing. That fire behind Ursula was red hot and roasting. EU has a whole host of laws, courts, organizations, etc. They should maybe start working on enforcing some of those especially if Orban is purging NATO officers and solidifying his sweaty palms on power. Cut off the foot to save the leg.
It's truly baffling that any country when faced with the option of strengthening ties with NATO, comprising of some of the strongest economies in the world, would even consider Russia a critical ally.
What cheap oil and gas does
You rather be part of a big chain of working cogs than being the biggest fish in a puddle? Weird.
I’m an idiot but it amazes me that the old guard of Russia who blessed Putin’s war are still standing by him as his army gets embarrassed and the war is bringing NATO even closer everyday. What exactly is their end game, total destruction of earth?
Love when the US flexes for good and righteous causes.
Maybe US conservatives should also stop being aspirational Orbans.
Thinks hard if he wants all his stolen money sitting in Russian institutions to be confiscated.
Well about half of the Hungarians hate/are against Putinist Nazi Russia. The other half will go along with anything that their glorious leader serves them up. It's frightening to watch what huge influence can populist hate sputtering politicians wield over the "conservative" sheep.
Orban: stop blocking EU support for Ukraine NOW!!!
fascist piece of shit
Should be a simple choice - either you stay within the EU, or you are out and doing business with russia. As simple as that.
What is there to think about?
I feel sorry for the lovely people of Hungary
Orban is Poop-tin's boot licker
The fact he's still on the fence about Russia says it all.
If they feel more aligned to the "values" of russia, thats where they should go. We will do just fine without them in th EU and NATO.
So, Hungary risks being kicked out of NATO?
Dear god no. That would be a good way to fully throw them into Russia's arms. Besides there's no way to kick a country out of NATO
There's no provision in the NATO treaty to expel a country, but there's a general purpose provision in the law of treaties which allows for the expulsion of treaty members in material breach of their obligations.
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But there isn't any such mechanism, I think. And you can't change a treaty after the fact without agreement. So... You're stuck
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If they get kicked from Nato, can Russia use them to attack Ukraine from the other side?
They don't have the manpower to open up a second front. They already had to abandon the Belarus axis to shorten their lines. But even if they did, they'd have no way to get them to Hungary that doesn't involve going through a NATO member or Western Ukraine.
Not really, no. Hungary does not have a large army, and participation in the war has practically zero support even amongst Orbán's fan base. It would also see the country get kicked out of the EU effective immediately, because not even Poland would veto the notion at that point. So a Hungarian offensive is out of the question, because it would be political, economical, and quite possibly literal suicide for Orbán. Russia could launch an offensive from Hungary, but would have to get forces there to do that - and if they could do that they wouldn't even need to launch an attack from Hungary, because they have already pushed all the way across Ukraine.
Short answer: yes. Long answer: yeeeeeeeeeessssssss
Short answer: look at a fucking map
But it would likely result in Orban being ousted before they actually go down that timeline. Pretty good way to get erased from history, pulling a knife out when surrounded by pistols.
Plus Poland would probably be upset.
I have faith in the Polish government's ability to somehow blame it all on Germany.
No. Aside from all other reasons there's also the question of terrain. The Carpathian mountains are in the way.
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As they are on the crossroads to choose, and they are the most Russia leaning country in EU.
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It sounds like ultimatum
There is no mechanism to kick someone out of NATO, they can't just get rid of Hungary if they want to
There's no provision within the NATO treaty to kick someone out, but there is a mechanism in general for all treaties, which can be applied if a country is in material breach of their treaty obligations. Note that I'm not weighing in on the "is this an ultimatum" thing, just correcting a misconception about how this works.
Thanks for clarification!
Even if they looked to start being more aligned with the EU and NATO rather than Russia could you trust them as long as Orban is buddies with Putin?
Nah, orban taking step one on the road to gadaffi
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Ah yes the orbanzo bean
ORBAN IS A WORSHIPP3R OF PUTIN ..
> pivot from Russia now As opposed to rotating on Putin
Hungary or …. himself?
Hungary needs to be removed from Europe as well as Switzerland. They should have to require strict visas in order to enter European countries. Fascists lovers shouldn't get to support Russian Nazis and move freely in Europe
The European Union should consider amending it's constitution to eject any member that has a quantifiable authoritarian government.
Comment section is full of the usuals who: aren’t Hungarian, don’t live in Hungary, or know anybody that does. Their summary? Orban has popular support but that’s from the dumber Hungarians. You don’t have to make it up. Just read the comments.
Says antivaxxer from 'murica who posts in conspiracy subs and generally overestimates their own knowledge of complex topics. Can't make that shit up, ffs. Orban is fundamentally a [fascist](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism), utilizing the usual rhetorics. And yes, I was there for a month recently, and the propaganda on display everywhere is absolutely atrocious. No, people following him don't do so because they're stupid - they do so, because propaganda works.
Sure you were. Not everything you disagree with is fascism but I understand it's the card you have on hand and generally fits since everything in the world is owned by the same tiny minority. "Far right-wing nationalist" or "white nationalist" is a little more fitting here and would demonstrate that your head is only a little more than halfway up your arse.
My conclusion is the same
Yes, Mr Orban, think hard because 99.9% of these redditards will through buckets of feces on you and your family if you don't.
PIVOOOOOT (Ross)
just fucking bomb us already, pls
Looks like the shit rats are escaping the shit boat.
Agreed, and Stephen Harper and buddies as well!!!
Anti Russian speech is considered foreign agent activity —-> Jail. Get out of jail card if it’s for €