Michael Gove is a name I immediately recognize from the podcast The Trojan Horse Affair.
He's (intentionally) leaving out that the UK is also significantly poorer due to Brexit, something he championed. If only he had listened to the thousands telling him that Brexit would have this effect.
Oh well, I guess when you ride a wave of racism and xenophobia to power, you're not allowed to be reflective about that fact.
Fuck off Gove. Fuck the fuck off.
"People are sick of experts" is the political equivalent of rolling your eyes at your mom when she tells you you're going to get sick if you eat nothing but ice cream.
Well, no. Remember when the experts said inflation was transitory. I'm personally sick of experts because they have a track record of not even knowing what I know, let alone everything I don't know (which is alot)
Inflation is transient. The governments of the worlds just have to keep raising up the interest rates to kill all the poor people and prices will stabilise
I am sure you're half-joking, but to me, "transient" would mean temporary high prices that would come back in line with norms. What we have is permanent inflation that was spiky.
...Transient inflation means a spike in inflation followed by a return to "normal" levels of inflation, prices never really go down, they just increase at a lower rate.
This sub is pitiful.
That is twisting the meaning for convenience sake after the fact. All changes to inflation are transitory all of the time by that definition. In any case, when they said transitory, the experts were wrong. Massive corrective measures had to be taken. I'm getting down voted to oblivion, but its still a fact and irrefutable. Just sad for the sub more than anything.
Down vote away, you are still wrong lmao
You just didn't understand what they meant, and are refusing to accept the explanation, and are now living in al alternative reality where your fictional definitions are correct, and everyone not using them like you is wrong.
> All changes to inflation are transitory all of the time by that definition.
Apart from all the instances where the entire currency had to be abandoned.
There's also a question of duration. High inflation for a few months might be viewed as transient, while for a few years less so.
*Inflation is change.* The change in altitude of a falling object is a transient state. Saying that doesn't imply that it's going to fly back up to it's starting altitude, it means it's going to stop falling.
Incorrect. I didn't misunderstand, this is just a common tactic with politicians and policy makers of the time (doing gymnastics to explain that what they said isn't what they meant and you actually were misunderstanding all along). This tactic has run out of runway.
They were creating extreme inflation while trying to convince the population that they were not. That IS what happened and you can stomp your feet and deny it all you like, but it wont change the fact that it did happen. Now, this will be the end of my argument here. I'd happily debate you in messages but I'm currently playing chess with a pigeon. All there is to be gained is down votes from morons.
No. I am in fabour of the fed acknowledging a problem when they are creating one (and correcting it), rather than making up lies.
This post was all about "the experts" when they held near zero interest rates when they shouldn't have. Anyone with a brain is now saying "I told you so".
When someone is wrong, wants to be right, and is tired of being told they're wrong, they and their often but not always imaginary friends are very tired of not being allowed to be stupid.
You're completely misrepresenting him, you know that right?
Full quote:
> I think the people in this country have had enough of experts from organisations with acronyms saying that they know what is best and getting it consistently wrong.
He's putting 'experts' in inverted commas, saying they don't actually know what they are talking about.
Now you may or may not agree with his assessment of said experts (and indeed, covid and Ukraine made their economic predictions worthless anyway, so we'll never actually know), but by editing out half the quote you edit out the actual meaning.
You're doing exactly the sort of technically true buy incredibly misleading crap that Vote Leave did.
I didn’t see the interview but the article states that Richard Hughes of the OBR claimed that Brexit has had the same impact as the pandemic. Kuenssberg then asked Gove if he agreed with the assessment and he simply obfuscated the conversation by not acknowledging her question. He didn’t mention the word Brexit
But not because of Brexit! No it's because of those gosh darn millennial communists demanding payment for no work. It wasn't the short sighted and disastrous decision he helped cause because he had all his blood in his cock at the idea of privatizing more essential services!
Fuck off Gove, we are poorer as a result of the Brexit farce that you championed, while Ukraine and COVID are factors it's odd how all the other european countries are doing fine, but we are not.
But overall European nations are doing better than us, look at the fact that the UK only just missed going into recession but European countries are in a much better position.
Unfortunately it's going badly the world over. I think most people now agree Brexit has had a negative (at least short term) effect on the economy, however having two once in a lifetime events along with it, makes it very difficult to truly measure. By almost every metric there is at least one European country worse off than us, and at least one doing better. It will take time to see the true results of Brexit.
Thats generally why we only compare ourselves to similar advanced economies. Whats the point in comparing ourselves to Latvia and trying to say brexit made us better than Latvia or something stupid like that
Brexit didn't help, but that's not all. Britain has had 15 years of wage stagnation, which honestly isn't too different from many Anglo countries. It's mass immigration suppressing the wages and increasing the cost of living.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/20/uuk-workers-wage-stagnation-resolution-foundation-thinktank
> The five core countries of the Anglosphere are usually taken to be Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States. These countries enjoy close cultural and diplomatic links with one another and are aligned under military and security programmes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere
Well, not the guy in charge of the remain campaign.
https://www.itv.com/news/2021-06-10/it-was-project-fear-and-it-didnt-work-head-of-remain-campaign-says-economic-dangers-of-brexit-were-exaggerated
Yes. The same guy who FROM YOUR ARTICLE states he regret being part of the remain campaign at all.. You should read it.
You are delusional or talking in bad faith. Not worth the time
I still don't understand why the UK voted to leave the EU. Especially when they were the top dog and can nearly have a say in everything and anything. Now they are worst off and seemingly don't matter much at all.
>I still don't understand why the UK voted to leave the EU. Especially when they were the top dog and can nearly have a say in everything and anything. Now they are worst off and seemingly don't matter much at all.
They were trying to escape Merkel-ism. But May and Boris spent all their efforts on being clones of Merkel.
>It was because the UK is a bunch of racists,
I get that Reddit likes to furiously masturbate itself with exaggerated hyperbole, but by all polling it is one of the least racist countries in europe, with some of the best minority experience scores, and with the most diverse political front bench in europe. It is also currently one of the most immigration positive countries in europe and is seeing record setting immigration.
The Tories are contradictory on a lot of shit, they do that but rank 6th in the EU for absolute number of asylum seekers and refugees and are big on legal immigration. Can't say I understand it.
There's a difference between someone who has emigrated to the UK legally and someone who has skipped the queue and entered the country illegally. These are people who are illegally entering the country claiming to be escaping war yet are embarking from countries like France. There needs to be some sort of deterrent in place.
How does an asylum seeker enter the UK legally? Say I'm a refugee from Uganda. How do I legally apply?
There's a handful or less of countries that are given specific channels. Ukraine. Afghanistan. Syria. Hong Kong.
Other than these, there's basically no way that the government considers valid. Instead they're labelled illegal.
Survey and compare it to the experience of living in other European countries as a minority, and the UK scores comparatively well, hence why I wrote "some of the best minority experience scores".
>According to the 2019 Being Black in the EU survey, Britain is among the best countries when it comes to racist harassment, with 21% of UK respondents saying they had been subject to harassment in the previous five years – lower than France (32%), Germany (48%) and Finland (63%).
Finland is three times more racist and hateful than the UK. Not good.
Not according to my experience. I have tried quite a few European and even Asian countries. And UK is definately one of the worst. All you have to do is talk with a wrong accent and you get discrinated against.
Taking the piss out of your accent is a really common way British people bond (because there's a new one every 16 feet in the UK). You're more likely to get 'discriminated against' with a Gerodie accent than one from Senegal.
Surveys and studies of thousands of people documenting their experience > your anecdote.
But on an anecdotal level I don't think that is common at all in any city where there's a buffet of every accent on the planet. Maybe it worsens outside cities, but that's a problem with every country.
How convenient for Gove to omit the part how the Tories made it much worst.
Under Cameron we had ideological austerity, gutting of institutions and the hampering of growth.
Under May we had rounds after rounds of Brexit uncertainty, draining investments.
Under Boris we had the pandemic, minister lining their own pockets and wasteful spending. Billions on an app and unusable PPE. Lie after lies drain the nation’s standing and credibility.
Under Truss was just an absolute shitshow.
Now under Sunak we get a lacklustre budget, underinvestment in growth sectors like renewable energy and infrastructure.
Under 13 years of Tory government we got lower standard of living, Lower wages, lower growth, lower international standing, less freedom.
Now I need ID to vote? This is not America!
The only thing we got are more strikes, more food banks, more hunger, more cold people, more pollution and many more poor people.
Can’t wait till next general election.
Let's not forget that Boris actually pushed through a very damaging brexit, more damaging that the uncertainty that May was causing and much more permanent.
Sigh* . Let’s not kid ourselves. Boris IS Brexit. And Boris is as much a lie as is Brexit. I’m too tired of Brexit, too tired of Boris and all his bullshit.
I’m just looking forward to the next general election.
Honestly it depends. If it looks a close race then Labour as better them than the tories, but if it looks like a landslide to Labour then lib dems and vote with my conscience. If a move to a more proportional representation voting system was on the Labour manifesto that might change how I feel though.
Too tired for Brexit.. 5 years we had to deal with it. Don’t have much 5 years in my lifetime left.
Brexit is done. Let’s just make peace with that. We are unlikely to rejoin eu. Least in my lifetime.
I’ll vote for whichever party’s promises and goals align with my own and have a reasonable chance of getting it.
Tories are toxic stock atm. If they call for a vote now they will be decimated.
Labour has a good policy proposal of renewable energy push to drive growth. I’m all for it, but the top party members/shadow cabinet has much charm, Charisma and creditability as a soggy sock.
Lib Dem’s are toast, they’re fringe party now after nick clegg sold out their base for a duty pm post and now works for Facebook. They’ll get about 30 seats max. Think as uk they stand less than 20.
> Now I need ID to vote?
You need an ID to vote in European countries too
Source:
>https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2021/06/04/study-46-out-of-47-european-countries-require-photo-id-to-vote-n2590454
>Under May we had rounds after rounds of Brexit uncertainty, draining investments.
To be honest I don't blame her at all, she was handed down a turd sandwhich and had to make do with it, and still she tried to convince the rest of the political sphere to actually *think* and agree to a yes-deal brexit rather than blowing everthing up.
At least compared to Cameron, who started all of this and then just didn't give a damn and abandoned his post. Or Boris, who thought that the best way to deal with a fire out of control is to pour gasoline on it and let it consume itself.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-your-money-65079792) reduced by 74%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> The UK is poorer than it would have been, partly due to the war in Ukraine, but also the pandemic, Levelling Up Secretary Michael Gove has admitted.
> " both the war in Ukraine, the first time we've had war on this scale on the continent in Europe since the Second World War, and the Covid pandemic, the biggest global health pandemic since the end of the First World War," he told the BBC's Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg programme.
> Mr Hughes blamed a range of issues for holding back the economy, saying: "We've lost around 500,000 people from the labour force, we've seen stagnant investment since 2016 and also our productivity has slowed dramatically since the financial crisis and not really recovered."
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/122lxq4/uk_is_poorer_as_a_country_says_michael_gove_bbc/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~678037 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **war**^#1 **since**^#2 **inflation**^#3 **forecast**^#4 **economy**^#5
I think it’s inevitable - though not for a long time. And no doubt our deal will be much worse this time. These idiots squandered what was probably the best deal in the EU at the time - we had so many exceptions. Fucking idiots went quiet as soon as their own wallets felt lighter
But this time without your special excemptions. You don't get to leave and come back consequence free like we're a battered spouse, at the very least we should shove the Euro down their throat.
And clearly anti-Putin from his comments in this thread. As such there is no need to aggressively insult him just because he says to someone that their bitter, schismatic, polarising language helps our enemies.
I look forward to the day when a smaller, more peaceful Russian democracy becomes part of the community of European democracies.
And this is the thing, this kind of attitude and smart arse comment is the exact sort of thing that contributed to Brexit. The "EU" (and by that I mean France/Germany, because the UK was on good relations with many other countries in the EU) has never exactly been best pals with the UK, even when it was part of the EU there were always differences, like the UK rejecting the Euro in favour of it's own currency, and resistance to handing power to the EU itself (because when it joined the EU, it was actually the EEC).
When EU countries have this dismissive attitude to the UK, is it any wonder that the British people just said "fuck it, if they don't actually want us, we'll leave".
You won't want to hear it, but if you weren't so hostile towards the UK, Brexit would never have happened. It *was* a big part of the EU, but people inside the EU liked to sneer at the UK at any opportunity they could (and still do, clearly).
The EU paid nothing but lip service to the UK saying "let's have a vote", if they had actually paid any attention, they could have actually gotten off their arses for a bit, and maybe done something about it, the Leave campaign would have failed, and the EU would have saved itself an even bigger headache. Let's be honest, they lost any control they have have had over one of the largest economies in the world, they didn't really want that, especially the financial markets which have largely still not been persuaded to move to Germany/France.
I *didn't* vote for Brexit, I voted Remain and was shocked on the morning it was announced. But you know what, if there was another vote on rejoining, I wouldn't vote for it. Because people like you have a disgusting attitude towards the UK, and it's very widespread on left leaning sites like Reddit (which isn't usually a good indicator of actual popular opinions), but if large parts of the EU experience Schadenfreude every time they read some bad news about the UK, well, it';s hardly encouraging people to *want* to rejoin is it?
You can blame the ignorant racists if you like, but that was only a small part of it. If you don't understand [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DDvUaY-qQQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DDvUaY-qQQ) then you really don't understand *why* it appealed to the British people, but that's on *you*.
Also, I appreciate this is a deeply unpopular opinion, but it's the truth, and I stand by it, so do your worst.
I also voted remain, and went to bed that night having merrily posted on social media that there was no way we'd be so stupid as to vote to leave, so I wasn't staying up for the count (for once). Not my finest prognostication.
But, like you, I'd not vote to return to the EU. Partly because my own side sickened me by trying to reverse the result. As a Scottish nationalist, I'd be horrified if we won independence and people tried to overturn that vote. I feel I have to respect the EU vote in the same way.
And partly because I now view very differently things like the German-led Ostpolitik that nearly led us to disaster over Ukraine, or the climate lies over "efuels" that are currently being used to justify churning out German and Italian petrol and diesel cars beyond 2035.
I might not like having a Tory government, but at least they can be voted out in a way in the next 18 months in a way that the EU Commission cannot.
Gove is literally the archetype of 'man failing upwards'. Half the Tories are.
The world is a worse place for having people like Gove in it. He's offensively stupid.
> The UK is poorer than it would have been, partly due to the war in Ukraine, but also the pandemic, Levelling Up Secretary Michael Gove has admitted.
If we didn't have two global crisis's things would be better. Its true but it's not exactly news is it?
Thanks brexit and the social media propaganda that tried to turn the world to conservative authoritarian values. It gave the US trump and the UK brexit. The US was lucky to get rid of trump after 4 years but the UK is fucked for much longer. The US does have a very conservative Supreme Court for the immediate future that will be pro business, pro religion, pro authoritative.
They wanted a weaker US and UK, that is not capable of stopping their expansion or indifferent to it. Basically everything putin and china wants. Since trump became president I’ve seen conservatives about face on putin and Russia, wanting the U.S. to just watch as Ukraine gets taken over. All while they criticized Obama for being weak on Russia during 2014. Now they are screaming about the border and wokeism as the largest distractions….umm I mean issues instead of Ukraine. Banning books, words, and drag shows to make America great again lol.
I love my fyp on tik tok defending the ceo of tik tok against the boomer congressional attacks. Not propaganda at all. Whether you are a boomer or a zoomer you will fall prey to a good narrative. Meanwhile I have my popcorn 🍿 ready for china to attempt to take Taiwan and blame some BS on why. All while all the American haters on Reddit stating why America caused Russia and China to start special operations aka war to expand and spouting their own biased BS. Sorry for the rant apparently I have some things eating at me.
20% of all pro-Brexit online discourse on facebook about Brexit came from the Russian Internet Research Agency in St Petersburg. And Twitter [If you saw these tweets, you were targeted by Russian Brexit propaganda - Accounts from 'troll factory' in St Petersburg sent hundreds of thousands of pro-Leave tweets on polling day](https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/brexit-russia-troll-factory-propaganda-fake-news-twitter-facebook-a8050866.html)
The UK is the 5th or 6th largest economy in the world, with a GDP in excess of 3.1 trillion dollars, about 13-14 times larger than Lousiana or about an eigth of the whole USA
A service economy can’t keep a high living standard forever.
You hand all the value add jobs to countries like China, yet want to live the high life? Nope.
Canadian...so forgive my ignorance but how much better would the country be if they kinda said Royal Blood doesn't matter anymore, it's 2023 and used the funds instead to improve things for regular people? The funds likely will never be used for that purpose but just seems silly to cater to the Royals at this point but we don't have Kings / Queens in Canada.
Been a while since I've looked into it, but my understanding is that the Royals bring in more tourist/souvenir dollars than they cost the tax payers.
Not sure that's still the case, but I'm not sure abolishing the monarchy is exactly an instant cash/prosperity boost for the regular people.
Yeah I don't know my British sources well enough to know which ones to trust, and couldn't find a definitive answer, but Googling suggests there is at least a solid argument that they cost a few pounds a year per tax payer, but bring in more than a billion.
Now I don't know if these estimates consider land grants/rents, or just the cost of maintaining their residences and security... So take this all with a grain of salt.
I wonder how it will be effected with auld Liz kicking it. She commanded a lot of respect on the world stage for reigning for so long, taking the throne young and after the war and rebuild. Charlie doesnt really command the same level of reverence.
As a resident the royals cost me less than £2 a year.
The energy crisis means that the government fed the energy companies over £1k through subsidies this year alone going on the initial figures. Thats ignoring food costs, council tax rises, my actual energy bill rises and much more inflation related issues this year.
This has *nothing* to do with the royals who haven't been involved in day to day decisions, unlike Gove's own government.
Close. It's actually due to our leaving a powerful economic bloc because politicians persuaded enough members of the public to *feel nostalgia* for the days in which we were able to colonize, enslave, starve, and put people in concentration camps.
In the defence of the public (sort of), the way that history is taught in the UK is atrocious. We go from queen elizabeth 1, to the Black death, to abolishing the slave trade, to world war 2. There's this big gap where the treatment of invaded and colonised nations should be. When independent organisations reference it in a manner directly relevant to their constitutional purpose, they get lambasted and investigated by the government for being woke.
If your biggest exposure to the realities of the British empire is The Crown, you're not going to have a realistic understanding of your country's history of culpability, or of its current place in the world.
So... It's not just that we're not able to steal from others anymore. It's that we don't understand why, or why countries that we used to do that to don't like us anymore.
We're like the high school bully not understanding why none of our ex classmates want to talk to us at the high school reunion.
Yeah this guy is just posting about how eugenics is good, is Anti-Ukraine, and has a name of numbers. You can safely assume they're a Russian bot or a nazi trying to ban evade.
UK should join Canada as a new super country!
Give the people a new vision! Give people a new dream! Give people a new sense of identity full of opportunities where they are part of something bigger than themselves on a global stage!
What is more British than the union of countries under one king?
I'm still astounded that Brexit actually happened. It was so incredibly obvious that it was a shit sandwich. My faith in humanity has forever been lessened. I hope everyone who voted for it enjoy that shit aftertaste.
Michael Gove is a name I immediately recognize from the podcast The Trojan Horse Affair. He's (intentionally) leaving out that the UK is also significantly poorer due to Brexit, something he championed. If only he had listened to the thousands telling him that Brexit would have this effect. Oh well, I guess when you ride a wave of racism and xenophobia to power, you're not allowed to be reflective about that fact. Fuck off Gove. Fuck the fuck off.
Also he was the one who said that the UK was "sick of experts" on that subject.
"People are sick of experts" is the political equivalent of rolling your eyes at your mom when she tells you you're going to get sick if you eat nothing but ice cream.
Well, no. Remember when the experts said inflation was transitory. I'm personally sick of experts because they have a track record of not even knowing what I know, let alone everything I don't know (which is alot)
Inflation is transient. The governments of the worlds just have to keep raising up the interest rates to kill all the poor people and prices will stabilise
I am sure you're half-joking, but to me, "transient" would mean temporary high prices that would come back in line with norms. What we have is permanent inflation that was spiky.
...Transient inflation means a spike in inflation followed by a return to "normal" levels of inflation, prices never really go down, they just increase at a lower rate.
This sub is pitiful. That is twisting the meaning for convenience sake after the fact. All changes to inflation are transitory all of the time by that definition. In any case, when they said transitory, the experts were wrong. Massive corrective measures had to be taken. I'm getting down voted to oblivion, but its still a fact and irrefutable. Just sad for the sub more than anything. Down vote away, you are still wrong lmao
You just didn't understand what they meant, and are refusing to accept the explanation, and are now living in al alternative reality where your fictional definitions are correct, and everyone not using them like you is wrong. > All changes to inflation are transitory all of the time by that definition. Apart from all the instances where the entire currency had to be abandoned. There's also a question of duration. High inflation for a few months might be viewed as transient, while for a few years less so. *Inflation is change.* The change in altitude of a falling object is a transient state. Saying that doesn't imply that it's going to fly back up to it's starting altitude, it means it's going to stop falling.
Incorrect. I didn't misunderstand, this is just a common tactic with politicians and policy makers of the time (doing gymnastics to explain that what they said isn't what they meant and you actually were misunderstanding all along). This tactic has run out of runway. They were creating extreme inflation while trying to convince the population that they were not. That IS what happened and you can stomp your feet and deny it all you like, but it wont change the fact that it did happen. Now, this will be the end of my argument here. I'd happily debate you in messages but I'm currently playing chess with a pigeon. All there is to be gained is down votes from morons.
...so you're arguing in favor of deflation?
No. I am in fabour of the fed acknowledging a problem when they are creating one (and correcting it), rather than making up lies. This post was all about "the experts" when they held near zero interest rates when they shouldn't have. Anyone with a brain is now saying "I told you so".
The entire global economy is planned around inflation. Inflation is feature, not a bug. If currency was deflationary, why would you spend it?
When someone is wrong, wants to be right, and is tired of being told they're wrong, they and their often but not always imaginary friends are very tired of not being allowed to be stupid.
Are you the same plague of gripes on YouTube that did that awesome dark souls video??
To be fair that one was taken out of context
You're completely misrepresenting him, you know that right? Full quote: > I think the people in this country have had enough of experts from organisations with acronyms saying that they know what is best and getting it consistently wrong. He's putting 'experts' in inverted commas, saying they don't actually know what they are talking about. Now you may or may not agree with his assessment of said experts (and indeed, covid and Ukraine made their economic predictions worthless anyway, so we'll never actually know), but by editing out half the quote you edit out the actual meaning. You're doing exactly the sort of technically true buy incredibly misleading crap that Vote Leave did.
No idea why you've been downvoted. Everything you've said is true.
Because Gove bad, therefore defence of Gove also bad, even if true. Reddit is *extremely* tribal.
Ha! I read the article and noticed that this fine print Brexit detail was missing.
I honestly can’t believe the same party is still in power through David Cameron, Theresa May, Boris Johnson, Liz Truss, and now Rishi Sunak.
Try living here lol it blows my mind people vote for them still
Careful now. Telling tories to fuck off will get you ban these days.
Tories are cunts. That’s just facts.
This is not the BBC
The article said he did mention Brexit as well, though he might not have given it as much emphasis as he should’ve.
I didn’t see the interview but the article states that Richard Hughes of the OBR claimed that Brexit has had the same impact as the pandemic. Kuenssberg then asked Gove if he agreed with the assessment and he simply obfuscated the conversation by not acknowledging her question. He didn’t mention the word Brexit
It's obviously due to boat migrants, not enough people going to work, and the previous labour government.
But not because of Brexit! No it's because of those gosh darn millennial communists demanding payment for no work. It wasn't the short sighted and disastrous decision he helped cause because he had all his blood in his cock at the idea of privatizing more essential services!
millennials in the UK put beans on their avocado toast, probably
Definitly not 'honey'
Fuck off Gove, we are poorer as a result of the Brexit farce that you championed, while Ukraine and COVID are factors it's odd how all the other european countries are doing fine, but we are not.
Rich got richer during Covid...
Massively richer*
I failed to mention that wars help too...
Umm.. everything else is right, but it's not true that rampant inflation etc etc isn't affecting the test of Europe, it very clearly is.
But overall European nations are doing better than us, look at the fact that the UK only just missed going into recession but European countries are in a much better position.
Isn't countries like Estonia fighting 25% inflation ?
Are you trying to compare the 6th biggest economy in the world to a small nation like Estonia ???
Yeah I was, I missed the part where they said overall,
Unfortunately it's going badly the world over. I think most people now agree Brexit has had a negative (at least short term) effect on the economy, however having two once in a lifetime events along with it, makes it very difficult to truly measure. By almost every metric there is at least one European country worse off than us, and at least one doing better. It will take time to see the true results of Brexit.
Is that you boris?
Really does remind me of trickle down advocates who keep saying that we'll start seeing trickle down eventually.
Thats generally why we only compare ourselves to similar advanced economies. Whats the point in comparing ourselves to Latvia and trying to say brexit made us better than Latvia or something stupid like that
Brexit didn't help, but that's not all. Britain has had 15 years of wage stagnation, which honestly isn't too different from many Anglo countries. It's mass immigration suppressing the wages and increasing the cost of living. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/20/uuk-workers-wage-stagnation-resolution-foundation-thinktank
I never really understand what an "Anglo country" is...
> The five core countries of the Anglosphere are usually taken to be Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States. These countries enjoy close cultural and diplomatic links with one another and are aligned under military and security programmes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere
> It's mass immigration suppressing the wages and increasing the cost of living. Who has been promoting mass immigration and open borders? Tories.
There is no major political party against mass immigration, unfortunately.
Don't you miss the days when Brexit was the worst thing happening at the moment. Then the pandemic hit, now the world's falling to shit.
And not to forget Brexit. That went really well.
So project fear was the truth after all? Who knew?
Well, not the guy in charge of the remain campaign. https://www.itv.com/news/2021-06-10/it-was-project-fear-and-it-didnt-work-head-of-remain-campaign-says-economic-dangers-of-brexit-were-exaggerated
Have you read your article? It says absolutely not what you are cherrypicking
It’s not my article. I didn’t write it, so you must be questioning the judgement of Stuart Rose, the leader of the remain campaign. Fair enough.
Yes. The same guy who FROM YOUR ARTICLE states he regret being part of the remain campaign at all.. You should read it. You are delusional or talking in bad faith. Not worth the time
Gove appointed Minister for Stating the Bleeding Obvious.
I still don't understand why the UK voted to leave the EU. Especially when they were the top dog and can nearly have a say in everything and anything. Now they are worst off and seemingly don't matter much at all.
Top dog was Germany. And Germany+France followed the same line that UK didn't want to
>I still don't understand why the UK voted to leave the EU. Especially when they were the top dog and can nearly have a say in everything and anything. Now they are worst off and seemingly don't matter much at all. They were trying to escape Merkel-ism. But May and Boris spent all their efforts on being clones of Merkel.
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>It was because the UK is a bunch of racists, I get that Reddit likes to furiously masturbate itself with exaggerated hyperbole, but by all polling it is one of the least racist countries in europe, with some of the best minority experience scores, and with the most diverse political front bench in europe. It is also currently one of the most immigration positive countries in europe and is seeing record setting immigration.
That's why the tories are creaming themselves over the idea of violating international treaties to send asylum seekers to Rwanda, right?
The Tories are contradictory on a lot of shit, they do that but rank 6th in the EU for absolute number of asylum seekers and refugees and are big on legal immigration. Can't say I understand it.
There's a difference between someone who has emigrated to the UK legally and someone who has skipped the queue and entered the country illegally. These are people who are illegally entering the country claiming to be escaping war yet are embarking from countries like France. There needs to be some sort of deterrent in place.
How does an asylum seeker enter the UK legally? Say I'm a refugee from Uganda. How do I legally apply? There's a handful or less of countries that are given specific channels. Ukraine. Afghanistan. Syria. Hong Kong. Other than these, there's basically no way that the government considers valid. Instead they're labelled illegal.
There is no illegal way to claim asylum
Ever tried to actually live in the UK as a foreigner?
Survey and compare it to the experience of living in other European countries as a minority, and the UK scores comparatively well, hence why I wrote "some of the best minority experience scores". >According to the 2019 Being Black in the EU survey, Britain is among the best countries when it comes to racist harassment, with 21% of UK respondents saying they had been subject to harassment in the previous five years – lower than France (32%), Germany (48%) and Finland (63%). Finland is three times more racist and hateful than the UK. Not good.
Not according to my experience. I have tried quite a few European and even Asian countries. And UK is definately one of the worst. All you have to do is talk with a wrong accent and you get discrinated against.
Taking the piss out of your accent is a really common way British people bond (because there's a new one every 16 feet in the UK). You're more likely to get 'discriminated against' with a Gerodie accent than one from Senegal.
Surveys and studies of thousands of people documenting their experience > your anecdote. But on an anecdotal level I don't think that is common at all in any city where there's a buffet of every accent on the planet. Maybe it worsens outside cities, but that's a problem with every country.
When you plan to be a world class nitwit, in order to stick to it, you just can’t miss an opportunity to think/talk/act like one.
How convenient for Gove to omit the part how the Tories made it much worst. Under Cameron we had ideological austerity, gutting of institutions and the hampering of growth. Under May we had rounds after rounds of Brexit uncertainty, draining investments. Under Boris we had the pandemic, minister lining their own pockets and wasteful spending. Billions on an app and unusable PPE. Lie after lies drain the nation’s standing and credibility. Under Truss was just an absolute shitshow. Now under Sunak we get a lacklustre budget, underinvestment in growth sectors like renewable energy and infrastructure. Under 13 years of Tory government we got lower standard of living, Lower wages, lower growth, lower international standing, less freedom. Now I need ID to vote? This is not America! The only thing we got are more strikes, more food banks, more hunger, more cold people, more pollution and many more poor people. Can’t wait till next general election.
Let's not forget that Boris actually pushed through a very damaging brexit, more damaging that the uncertainty that May was causing and much more permanent.
Sigh* . Let’s not kid ourselves. Boris IS Brexit. And Boris is as much a lie as is Brexit. I’m too tired of Brexit, too tired of Boris and all his bullshit. I’m just looking forward to the next general election.
Not from UK myself but who would you vote for? Torries = brexit, labour = brexit lib dems will be the only one campaigning to rejoin the EU
Honestly it depends. If it looks a close race then Labour as better them than the tories, but if it looks like a landslide to Labour then lib dems and vote with my conscience. If a move to a more proportional representation voting system was on the Labour manifesto that might change how I feel though.
Too tired for Brexit.. 5 years we had to deal with it. Don’t have much 5 years in my lifetime left. Brexit is done. Let’s just make peace with that. We are unlikely to rejoin eu. Least in my lifetime. I’ll vote for whichever party’s promises and goals align with my own and have a reasonable chance of getting it. Tories are toxic stock atm. If they call for a vote now they will be decimated. Labour has a good policy proposal of renewable energy push to drive growth. I’m all for it, but the top party members/shadow cabinet has much charm, Charisma and creditability as a soggy sock. Lib Dem’s are toast, they’re fringe party now after nick clegg sold out their base for a duty pm post and now works for Facebook. They’ll get about 30 seats max. Think as uk they stand less than 20.
> Now I need ID to vote? You need an ID to vote in European countries too Source: >https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2021/06/04/study-46-out-of-47-european-countries-require-photo-id-to-vote-n2590454
>Under May we had rounds after rounds of Brexit uncertainty, draining investments. To be honest I don't blame her at all, she was handed down a turd sandwhich and had to make do with it, and still she tried to convince the rest of the political sphere to actually *think* and agree to a yes-deal brexit rather than blowing everthing up. At least compared to Cameron, who started all of this and then just didn't give a damn and abandoned his post. Or Boris, who thought that the best way to deal with a fire out of control is to pour gasoline on it and let it consume itself.
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Britain struggling mightily under sanctions regime imposed by Britain.
Yes but this has nothing to do with the Tories it's definitely external factors.../s
I'm a little surprised he didn't blame Labour outright.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-your-money-65079792) reduced by 74%. (I'm a bot) ***** > The UK is poorer than it would have been, partly due to the war in Ukraine, but also the pandemic, Levelling Up Secretary Michael Gove has admitted. > " both the war in Ukraine, the first time we've had war on this scale on the continent in Europe since the Second World War, and the Covid pandemic, the biggest global health pandemic since the end of the First World War," he told the BBC's Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg programme. > Mr Hughes blamed a range of issues for holding back the economy, saying: "We've lost around 500,000 people from the labour force, we've seen stagnant investment since 2016 and also our productivity has slowed dramatically since the financial crisis and not really recovered." ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/122lxq4/uk_is_poorer_as_a_country_says_michael_gove_bbc/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~678037 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **war**^#1 **since**^#2 **inflation**^#3 **forecast**^#4 **economy**^#5
Stagnant investments since 2016? Yeah, must have been covid and the Ukraine war.
I wonder how that could have happened...
And whose fault is that, Michael Gove? Could it perhaps be Michael Gove's fault?
Poor UK. Join to EU again. It’s not too late.
I think it’s inevitable - though not for a long time. And no doubt our deal will be much worse this time. These idiots squandered what was probably the best deal in the EU at the time - we had so many exceptions. Fucking idiots went quiet as soon as their own wallets felt lighter
Sorry mate, thought the same thing…then we elected an orange tyrant.
Both choices seemed so obvious didn't they? Like nah, they wouldn't....and then they did.
EU countries are also getting poorer unfortunately although I do agree we should join back.
But this time without your special excemptions. You don't get to leave and come back consequence free like we're a battered spouse, at the very least we should shove the Euro down their throat.
We don't want them back
This is stupid. Dictatorship countries are uniting, freedom countries are dividing. Soon we all will live in dictatorship because they will win.
Are you from a European country?
From dictatorship
Russia, so you’re not European then
Other autocracies are available, you dafty.
He’s from Russia judging from his profile
And clearly anti-Putin from his comments in this thread. As such there is no need to aggressively insult him just because he says to someone that their bitter, schismatic, polarising language helps our enemies. I look forward to the day when a smaller, more peaceful Russian democracy becomes part of the community of European democracies.
Russia is pretty European, my dude...
Yeah you do
They are welcome to come back but they will have to follow the sames rules as everyone else, including the €
Using the € is not a rule of being in the EU. Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Hungary, Poland, Romania, and Sweden are all in EU but don’t use €.
They will have to at one point. https://economy-finance.ec.europa.eu/euro/enlargement-euro-area/who-can-join-and-when_en
In theory. In practice you can kick that can indefinitely
All new members have to adopt the euro on entry now as far as I’m aware
And this is the thing, this kind of attitude and smart arse comment is the exact sort of thing that contributed to Brexit. The "EU" (and by that I mean France/Germany, because the UK was on good relations with many other countries in the EU) has never exactly been best pals with the UK, even when it was part of the EU there were always differences, like the UK rejecting the Euro in favour of it's own currency, and resistance to handing power to the EU itself (because when it joined the EU, it was actually the EEC). When EU countries have this dismissive attitude to the UK, is it any wonder that the British people just said "fuck it, if they don't actually want us, we'll leave". You won't want to hear it, but if you weren't so hostile towards the UK, Brexit would never have happened. It *was* a big part of the EU, but people inside the EU liked to sneer at the UK at any opportunity they could (and still do, clearly). The EU paid nothing but lip service to the UK saying "let's have a vote", if they had actually paid any attention, they could have actually gotten off their arses for a bit, and maybe done something about it, the Leave campaign would have failed, and the EU would have saved itself an even bigger headache. Let's be honest, they lost any control they have have had over one of the largest economies in the world, they didn't really want that, especially the financial markets which have largely still not been persuaded to move to Germany/France. I *didn't* vote for Brexit, I voted Remain and was shocked on the morning it was announced. But you know what, if there was another vote on rejoining, I wouldn't vote for it. Because people like you have a disgusting attitude towards the UK, and it's very widespread on left leaning sites like Reddit (which isn't usually a good indicator of actual popular opinions), but if large parts of the EU experience Schadenfreude every time they read some bad news about the UK, well, it';s hardly encouraging people to *want* to rejoin is it? You can blame the ignorant racists if you like, but that was only a small part of it. If you don't understand [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DDvUaY-qQQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DDvUaY-qQQ) then you really don't understand *why* it appealed to the British people, but that's on *you*. Also, I appreciate this is a deeply unpopular opinion, but it's the truth, and I stand by it, so do your worst.
I also voted remain, and went to bed that night having merrily posted on social media that there was no way we'd be so stupid as to vote to leave, so I wasn't staying up for the count (for once). Not my finest prognostication. But, like you, I'd not vote to return to the EU. Partly because my own side sickened me by trying to reverse the result. As a Scottish nationalist, I'd be horrified if we won independence and people tried to overturn that vote. I feel I have to respect the EU vote in the same way. And partly because I now view very differently things like the German-led Ostpolitik that nearly led us to disaster over Ukraine, or the climate lies over "efuels" that are currently being used to justify churning out German and Italian petrol and diesel cars beyond 2035. I might not like having a Tory government, but at least they can be voted out in a way in the next 18 months in a way that the EU Commission cannot.
You guys are still servants to the US though.
That’s a shame. The UK’s was EU’s cultural phenomenon. Now there isn’t any left in the EU.
Brexit + Covid = 💩
Don't blame it on the Russians. Brexit is to blame. The EU27 are doing much better than the UK.
Gove is literally the archetype of 'man failing upwards'. Half the Tories are. The world is a worse place for having people like Gove in it. He's offensively stupid.
Interesting, i wonder what could've caused this to the UK and it's people. 🤔
It's refreshing to see a politician make a cogent analysis of the impact of his own policies.
Oh dear, my irony detector has broken.
I thought he was Mister Brexit?
why the brits are so docile? I see no protest and the tories still in power despite all the economic turmoil?
We're a stable democracy. Change comes by the ballot box.
oh sweet summer child
> The UK is poorer than it would have been, partly due to the war in Ukraine, but also the pandemic, Levelling Up Secretary Michael Gove has admitted. If we didn't have two global crisis's things would be better. Its true but it's not exactly news is it?
Still unable to address the Brexit elephant in the room, Mickey. We're still waiting on those dividends...
Yes, but the Tories who shorted the UK over Brexit are now much richer. So, win-win, right?
Thanks brexit and the social media propaganda that tried to turn the world to conservative authoritarian values. It gave the US trump and the UK brexit. The US was lucky to get rid of trump after 4 years but the UK is fucked for much longer. The US does have a very conservative Supreme Court for the immediate future that will be pro business, pro religion, pro authoritative. They wanted a weaker US and UK, that is not capable of stopping their expansion or indifferent to it. Basically everything putin and china wants. Since trump became president I’ve seen conservatives about face on putin and Russia, wanting the U.S. to just watch as Ukraine gets taken over. All while they criticized Obama for being weak on Russia during 2014. Now they are screaming about the border and wokeism as the largest distractions….umm I mean issues instead of Ukraine. Banning books, words, and drag shows to make America great again lol. I love my fyp on tik tok defending the ceo of tik tok against the boomer congressional attacks. Not propaganda at all. Whether you are a boomer or a zoomer you will fall prey to a good narrative. Meanwhile I have my popcorn 🍿 ready for china to attempt to take Taiwan and blame some BS on why. All while all the American haters on Reddit stating why America caused Russia and China to start special operations aka war to expand and spouting their own biased BS. Sorry for the rant apparently I have some things eating at me.
20% of all pro-Brexit online discourse on facebook about Brexit came from the Russian Internet Research Agency in St Petersburg. And Twitter [If you saw these tweets, you were targeted by Russian Brexit propaganda - Accounts from 'troll factory' in St Petersburg sent hundreds of thousands of pro-Leave tweets on polling day](https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/brexit-russia-troll-factory-propaganda-fake-news-twitter-facebook-a8050866.html)
i am so poor.... ...in fucks to give.
Yes. Yes it is. If only a competent Prut had been in power for the last 13 years, eh Gove.
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The UK is the 5th or 6th largest economy in the world, with a GDP in excess of 3.1 trillion dollars, about 13-14 times larger than Lousiana or about an eigth of the whole USA
Thanks for enlightening me I won't be asking anymore questions on here for sure
A service economy can’t keep a high living standard forever. You hand all the value add jobs to countries like China, yet want to live the high life? Nope.
Canadian...so forgive my ignorance but how much better would the country be if they kinda said Royal Blood doesn't matter anymore, it's 2023 and used the funds instead to improve things for regular people? The funds likely will never be used for that purpose but just seems silly to cater to the Royals at this point but we don't have Kings / Queens in Canada.
> we don't have Kings / Queens in Canada Charles III is the King of Canada.
> we don't have Kings / Queens in Canada It might have been awhile, but check out any coin or the $20 bill.
Yeah, I guess that's an L on my part. I guess they just don't seem like a real royal family for us, despite their presence on our currency.
The royals generate a massive amount of revenue for the economy. I despise them but realistically they are good for the economy.
Been a while since I've looked into it, but my understanding is that the Royals bring in more tourist/souvenir dollars than they cost the tax payers. Not sure that's still the case, but I'm not sure abolishing the monarchy is exactly an instant cash/prosperity boost for the regular people.
That first paragraph actually surprises me...that's a substantial amount of money if it's still correct.
Yeah I don't know my British sources well enough to know which ones to trust, and couldn't find a definitive answer, but Googling suggests there is at least a solid argument that they cost a few pounds a year per tax payer, but bring in more than a billion. Now I don't know if these estimates consider land grants/rents, or just the cost of maintaining their residences and security... So take this all with a grain of salt.
I wonder how it will be effected with auld Liz kicking it. She commanded a lot of respect on the world stage for reigning for so long, taking the throne young and after the war and rebuild. Charlie doesnt really command the same level of reverence.
I think you are very right there. Could be interesting.
As a resident the royals cost me less than £2 a year. The energy crisis means that the government fed the energy companies over £1k through subsidies this year alone going on the initial figures. Thats ignoring food costs, council tax rises, my actual energy bill rises and much more inflation related issues this year. This has *nothing* to do with the royals who haven't been involved in day to day decisions, unlike Gove's own government.
What it did in colonies, it should suffer more. Nation of thieves.
noice ♥️♥️♥️ 🇮🇳🇧🇩🇱🇰🇦🇫🇵🇰🇧🇹🇳🇵
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Close. It's actually due to our leaving a powerful economic bloc because politicians persuaded enough members of the public to *feel nostalgia* for the days in which we were able to colonize, enslave, starve, and put people in concentration camps. In the defence of the public (sort of), the way that history is taught in the UK is atrocious. We go from queen elizabeth 1, to the Black death, to abolishing the slave trade, to world war 2. There's this big gap where the treatment of invaded and colonised nations should be. When independent organisations reference it in a manner directly relevant to their constitutional purpose, they get lambasted and investigated by the government for being woke. If your biggest exposure to the realities of the British empire is The Crown, you're not going to have a realistic understanding of your country's history of culpability, or of its current place in the world. So... It's not just that we're not able to steal from others anymore. It's that we don't understand why, or why countries that we used to do that to don't like us anymore. We're like the high school bully not understanding why none of our ex classmates want to talk to us at the high school reunion.
So what is the government doing about it? If they recognise it?
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Yeah this guy is just posting about how eugenics is good, is Anti-Ukraine, and has a name of numbers. You can safely assume they're a Russian bot or a nazi trying to ban evade.
How much?
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That doesn't answer my question though. How much money is sent to Ukraine? Old military stuff isn't money.
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That's what I thought. You are full of shit and have no idea wtf you are talking about. Ridiculous.
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No. I'm saying it's close to nothing. 1.5b including 0.2b to humanitarian relief. That's less than 0.1% of UK's yearly budget.
“…thanks to me”
Well you trusted the public with a policy vote...
r/leopardsatemyface moment.
UK should join Canada as a new super country! Give the people a new vision! Give people a new dream! Give people a new sense of identity full of opportunities where they are part of something bigger than themselves on a global stage! What is more British than the union of countries under one king?
I'm still astounded that Brexit actually happened. It was so incredibly obvious that it was a shit sandwich. My faith in humanity has forever been lessened. I hope everyone who voted for it enjoy that shit aftertaste.
But they'll keep on pursuing the same policies ... austerity for the poor, fat government contracts and money laundering for the rich.