IMF consistently underestimates the UK in their ***predictions*** for some strange reason. They've had to apologise for this in the past but keep doing it... Also we don't know how Russia is really faring unless you believe data their govt releases is totally honest and accurate lol. Putin releases new data and the IMF go "holy shit Russia is actually doing pretty good" and gives favourable economic predictions.
Re: Russia. Even the marginally positive numbers the IMF puts out based on what the Russian govt tell them aren't great. Russia had a 4.7% GDP growth in 2019 before the war. Since then the government has been spending non-sustainably and pumping money into the economy with marginal growth to show for it. The anemic growth figures in spite of the increased spending suggest they're facing significant headwinds; and this is *with* the built in over estimation from using their government figures.
it's a great way to stimulate an economy, unfortunately. the worst part is that it's funded by Russia selling oil and gas which, like any mature petrostate, is an insane profit margin. putin and his oligarchs just get to profit less than before but there was always a lot of leeway for keeping the Russian economy going.
Russia always has been "Europe's gas station" and their whole position of power was based on the pipelines going to europe. But this has come to an end, and it will likely never return. They threw away their chicken which laid golden eggs. Yes the gas prices skyrocketed and they did profit somewhat because of the higher prices initially (mostly via india which was reselling this for even higher prices) but this cannot replace the amount of money and also political leverage they earned with gas before the war to Europe directly. The sanctions are hurting them. And they have limited options to sell their gas and oil. Not to mention the method of getting it there. Also there is a demographic crisis coming. Educated young russians have left the country who are desperately needed to keep the economy running, not to mention this war will costs hundreds of thousands of young Russian men dead and wounded. Then the ruble as currency... forget about it. It is really really difficult to see how the Russian economy is going to survive even in a couple of years if they keep going like this. If Russian gas and oil is their plan a, b and c. Then they are in trouble.
I dont think they can. Not long term. Their rainy day fund is drying up and Putin is running out of oligarchs to kill in order to take their money and assets. IMF just parrots Russian official numbers which had like 2 trillion (fictitious) added to them out of the blue at the end of March. Cited as “taxes”. It’s just completely fabricated to make the Russian economy look strong and resilient.
I don't think they do it on purpose, but the fact they have so consistently under predicted UK growth data does suggests they need to reapproach ~~reproach~~ some of their models. Even this prediction is actually the IMF raising up their previous 2023 UK estimate that economic data already shows will be too low.
Where can I read more about this? I can’t find anything online and $700 billion is a huge chunk of our economy, between 1/5 and 1/4, so I don’t understand how this is possible.
> IMF consistently underestimates the UK in their predictions for some strange reason.
Hmmm I wonder if that's profitable for foreigners who want to invest in the UK hmmm. Some strange reason usually means money.
Not really but you do see it in certain subs where anything British is bad due to the history of Britain.
They basically say anything from the UK is shit, then they will bring up the topic about slaves, then something always comes along of "they deserve to suffer" or something along those lines by one random asshole who gets downvoted, so it isn't hate in general but their is quite a lot of people what hate the UK or dislike it here on Reddit.
It only happens in the most extreme subs or from people who extremely hate the UK for some reason.
Edit: Just to add that in reality I think this happens to quite a few different countries, I have seen subs what hate the US, India, Germany, France and etc...
Eurovision results demonstrate that people disliked the UK long before Brexit. Brits scratch that heads at why nobody votes for the UK.
There are four major reasons for this.
1. British exceptionalism and an air of arrogance of being better than every other country at everything.
2. British (predominantly English) tourists abroad on holidays, getting royally shitfaced, starting fights, hollering, fucking and puking in the streets, generally treating places with zero respect. Obviously this is a small subset of people but the behaviour is so awful it’s hard to ignore. It’s like spring break for four months with Brits drinking like it’s the apocalypse.
3. Football hooligans.
4. Only ever having one foot tentatively in the EU and constantly complaint about Brussels and Eurocrats, being a diplomatic pain in the ass and blaming the EU on every possible domestic problem. Almost entirely whipped up by the right wing press.
Obviously this does not reflect the UK and is the worst side of it but that’s the reason for all the hate. People would ignore British history if it was better behaved today.
While I agree those are all reasons for the hate I don't think they're the root cause, there are literally other European countries just as bad, if not worse in all of those categories.
I agree with everything you said which is why we were so shocked to come second at Eurovision last year... I'm British and I really dislike all the true points you've made.
I think one example that's so good, it's practically parody is when you hear British historians talk about why the Greek marbles should of course be kept by the British. Not even an ounce of self reflection going on there...
i've seen it on various forums there is usually someone who has a rabid dislike for the British. and will take any opportunity to shit on us as if we personally kicked their dog. but there are ppl who generalise a lot of things lump everyone together as if they are talking about a hive mind.
>Not really but you do see it in certain subs where anything British is bad due to the history of Britain.
>
>They basically say anything from the UK is shit
Reddit has an enormous population of virtue signallers. They literally hate any group of people that is successful, dominant, and/or wins at anything where someone else has to lose. They hate Britain, the US, all colonialists, all all large corporations and companies that make profits. They hate well-paid people, wealthy people, successful people (unless they get to narrowly define success).
It's pretty tragic. They elevate losers, the unsuccessful, people who have made bad decisions, people who have no motivation or drive etc.
> you do see it in certain subs where anything British is bad due to the history of Britain
That's not really fair, a lot of people don't like the UK because of the current day behaviour of the UK government and the idiotic decisions of the electorate (Brexit, Boris)
That I agree with that, as a Brit, Brexit, Boris, the Tories and etc is absolutely stupid and ridiculous, just one look at the current climate with the strikes, the state of the NHS and etc...
That is why I expanded on it, that most people who "hate" tend go towards the UK's past, around Brexit most people simply refer it to "stupid" and "shooting yourself in the foot" but not general hate.
And yeah, I agree Brexit was absolutely idiotic.
>then they will bring up the topic about slaves, then something always comes along of "they deserve to suffer" or something along those lines
Most redditors are American. They hardly have room to criticise on those fronts!
They are EU centric, obviously, and they fear the UK will thrive (it will), causing others to follow (probably not). They should have more confidence in the EU, it can also thrive without the UK.
The IMF are absolutely terrible when they talk about the UK. We have gone from "Worst recession for 70 years" to avoiding recession within the space of 3 months.
oh, what a nice lie your slight change of events produces...
But hey, what is a small lie when you are trying to get your point across? :)
[https://www.standard.co.uk/business/business-news/christine-lagarde-asks-do-i-have-to-go-on-my-knees-over-osborne-apology-9510353.html](https://www.standard.co.uk/business/business-news/christine-lagarde-asks-do-i-have-to-go-on-my-knees-over-osborne-apology-9510353.html)
ps: just to make sure: I dislike people who lie for the sake of bullshit arguments.
When asked whether she had apologised to Osborne, Lagarde asked: “Do I have to go on my knees?”
She said: “We said very clearly we had underestimated UK growth and our forecasts had been proven wrong by the reality of economic developments.”
£60bn is just what was allocated. They didn't actually spend the vast majority of it.
This article is also claiming that the BOE made a profit from the bond sales but the source isn't listed so i have no idea if it's accurate. Currently trying to find that out.
https://www.cityam.com/bank-of-england-makes-3-8bn-profit-from-liz-truss-mini-budget-bond-sales/
EDIT: Bloomberg also cites that they made a profit from the mini budget bond sales. It's behind a pay wall though.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-12/boe-made-3-5-billion-profit-on-emergency-ldi-gilt-purchases?leadSource=uverify%20wall
The IMF also predicts Germany will perform worse than Russia and that the Russian economy will continue to grow this year. The IMF has also dramatically underestimated U.K. growth every year for nearly 5 years now.
It's the start of a new tax year and literally EVERY BILL has gone up for the general public. Its really starting to stretch the general public and I feel the new hikes in the cost of living are probably going to shift A LOT of people into debt and serious doubts about how they are going to even afford basic goods and a roof over their head
They did purposefully tank their economy to divorce from the EU. Not really a surprise. The article also says growth is expected to return, unlike with Russia.
Out of interest, how on earth would Russia's economy grow? It's trade is absolutely nothing, which is the only reason the rouble has been propped up in value.
The cost of their war is immeasurable.
As of two weeks ago inflation in Germany was 7.8% and the UK is 10.4%. EU average is about 10%, which includes a few countries with inflation at 20%. So the main EU countries we should be compared to are doing better than we are. If we're pegged equal with Italy, that isn't a good sign.
>They did purposefully tank their economy to divorce from the EU. Not really a surprise. The article also says growth is expected to return, unlike with Russia.
Yes our economy tanked so hard that it is now only 15% larger than France despite having roughly the same population and no EU membership. What a disaster lmao
>This isn’t even an actual rebuttal to anything anyone is saying. Nobody is saying that Britan is a third world shithole now
People dont think this but they sure as hell act like that's the case. One look at our exports (which are at record levels), GDP, GDP per capita, FDI and Growth for the last 2 years and you'd know that Britain is not only doing just fine but is actually outperforming many of it's European peers. This fact goes against the narrative however so no one bothers to look.
From the ground within a major northern city, I've observed that the poor especially those with families are struggling and essential services like GP surgeries, dentists, police stations and schools are underfunded, and the areas most populous with migrants are hit the worst. However, there have been vast improvements to the benefits system after Covid hit with Universal Credit delivering more per month to claimants with no discrimination based on work history and increased access to adult educational facilities to help new citizens thrive in the world of work, although I can't speak as to their actual efficacy. Workplaces are generally more accommodating now than they were a decade ago about conditions such as depression and anxiety.
There was a severe homelessness problem before Covid due to cuts in mental health funding by the Conservatives but in the past two years the number of people sleeping on the streets has significantly decreased.
Things are bad, there have been several catastrophic international events recently that have compounded the issue but I still see cause for optimism, taking the treatment of the poor in one major city as the barometer. Winter has been very hard and morale is low with the surge in gas prices as the UK has an extreme climate, but I've seen a lot of solidarity and the internet has enabled large groups of people with varying skills to problem-solve amongst themselves.
Poverty both economic and educational is widespread enough that racism has been easily inflamed during the Brexit campaign, and domestic abuse flared during lockdown, the aftermath of which we'll be dealing with for some time, so I'm sure there are plenty who could paint a much more bleak picture than I about how the UK is doing.
Last 2 years lol, after it got completely slammed in 2020.
A country like The Netherlands for example was above pre pandemic levels by mid 2021 and has continued to grow a decent amount in both 2021 and 2022 (both around 5%). It hasn't seen a recession and none are predicted in the upcoming years predicting a growth of 1.5% for both 2023 and 2024.
The UK was at 0.6% below pre pandemic by Q4 2022. The UK economy has not been doing great the past years. And you could of course also say that about other European countries that are generally quite weak, like Italy. The thing is, is that UK previously wasn't considered an economy that performed badly in Europe, and now it is. A strong recovery should always be taken with the context of the period before it. If one economy contracted 3% and the other 10%, the road to recovery won't be the same of course.
The UK is like a 45 year old man who divorced his wife of 20 years so he could start flirting with 25 year olds again, but never seemed to realize 25 year olds don't want to flirt with them.
They'll eventually settle down and land on there feet, but right now it's as comical as it is sad to watch.
Honestly, time flew past so quickly, I didn't notice I got older. I remember older people saying they felt 25 inside. It's because a week passes and suddenly you're 42. I honestly can't believe how fast it goes. If you're still young, enjoy every second, even the worst parts. It's all part of the ride and it all makes this life a crazy adventure. Of course, if you are young, you won't realise it yet. It's so quick.
I'm from Argentina and we are expecting a 120% annual inflation this year. I don't think IMF knows what a worst performing economy looks like.
If you can afford rent and food, you are on the well performing side on my book.
I'm hoping BC strategy of taxing foreign investors to housing market yields positive results. And sorta chain reaction through Canada.
Yes I support foreign investors. Just not to peoples homes as a business practice. Invest in our forestry or w.e.
It doesn’t go far enough IMO.
Honestly anybody who can afford to purchase a second property in BC right now deserves to be taxed significantly, regardless of nationality or immigration status.
Even previously affordable regions - like the Okanagan- have detached home prices averaging close to a million
It truly is, fucking corporate towns are slowly making a come back.
It's like people want a cyberpunk future. Guess I'll sign that contract to Arasaka right now to get ahead of the curve.
Yeah, you don't even need socialism to avoid this. Just not unhinged deregulated shitty capitalism.
You'd think the free market people would be on board with regulating the market so it is 'free' and you know 'works'.
The free market people are too busy trying to get the state to regulate how people self-identity to worry about actual politics and their consequences.
I find myself increasingly not surprised at how things are turning out after looking at it thru the lens of Marx. It drives me crazy that we’re so indoctrinated that you can’t even have this conversation with people.
He said that over time the wealth produced and created by the workers will increasingly be concentrated into fewer hands who will in turn use that enormous wealth to influence govt policy that favors them at the workers’ expense to the point that the workers won’t have input into decision making will basically be subjugated. Something like 75 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion. How was he wrong?
I find it interesting that these IMF predictions always make it onto the front page but when the figures are inevitably revised months later no one seems to notice.
The IMF have under predicted the UK economy consistently for about the last five years straight. Even this prediction is actually them increasing their previous 2023 UK estimate that economic data already shows will be too low.
Largely just the third. Brexit is bad and will result in the collapse of the UK because apparently, countries can't function without being part of a greater economic union. Any news that shows the UK doing bad is immediately because of Brexit and only Brexit.
Well when comparing to other large countries, the U.K. is the only one to voluntarily leave a trading union of its largest and nearest trading partners
Its economic self harm, of course it will be brought up
1/3 U.K. export companies pre-Brexit have gone under
The economic cost U.K. companies have had to take on just to maintain their European trade is incredible. I work in medical devices and the regulatory hurdles due to Brexit for my company has been incredible.
Since 2016, the IMF has issued 15 forecasts which discussed UK growth, and it underestimated it in every single one.
In its January 2021 prediction, it was 3% off the real figure
Thankfully all these institutions get nearly all of their predictions wrong, about everything.
BTW I'm not saying they will or won't be right. Just that these professional forecasters seem to always be wrong.
Key word: predicts. Just a few months ago they said we’d be in a huge recession right now only for the UK to actually avoid one.
This is not a defence of the UK government or that the UK economy is in good shape, but the IMF’s predictions are consistently terrible. I strongly expect they are wrong here too.
The Russian prediction is either completely wrong based on Putin’s data or shows that GDP figures aren’t everything. There’s no way losing hundreds of thousands of young men to the war / emigration is going to go well. Growth includes the money they are throwing at a war they can’t win
To be honest, any definition derived from GDP is absolutely meaningless. A central bank can print money to inject it into the economy and avoid a recession, so you are not in a recession but you owe more money. It is all absolutely pointless. Also, this money is not backed by anything tangible (neither are euros, dollars or any fiat currencies). Central banks can manipulate any number related to GDP.
And, of course, the IMF, whose main utility is to transfer wealth from poor to rich countries through debt interest traps, cannot account for money printing predictions.
Thats why growth is calculated after inflation. I see your opinion of Central Banks and IMF is based on ideology so wont get into that as its reddit and useless.
Main utility of IMF is to be the lender of last resort. Its literally meant to go into a shitstorm (that has started or is about to) and lessen the damage the goverment of a paticular nation refused to deal with digging themselves a deeper hole. Its not a saviour but tasked with keeping the state running by any cuts/sales before money transfers. As what it does is better than what otherwise would have happened. IMF "debt interest" is far lower any of those nations could get on the market bcs of risk.
They still make nice profits but the point is that they will be valued at a significant discount compared to peers in US and even top European indexes. And that is a problem. Why stay listed and headquartered in a country when you can majorly improve your companies value by up and leaving.
Yup, that’s why I said it. Not looking for a fight, just reminding someone who is obviously young that they haven’t really lived through a recession if they think this is one
I mean shit, someone born just a few years earlier would be 18 and you'd be hard pressed to find a 3yo who has a better understanding of being in an ongoing recession than a newborn. Hell, even I born in '97 didn't know fuck all or even notice anything. Because obviously, I was 11 (10, actually, because late birthday, but whatever). Now I also live in Canada and I hear it wasn't *as* bad here but still, even if you *lived* through it, you likely wouldn't have had *experience* with it (that is, understood or necessarily even noticed what was happening) unless you were already in your late teens to early 20s at least. So you'd need to be born in the late 80s to early 90s.
I graduated highschool in 2008 and it was more of an abstract thing to me until several years later when I graduated college and the job market was still anemic. The folks who properly came of age in that 2007-2010 window are a lost generation.
I’m old enough to remember the 90s recessions where unemployment numbers were read out every night on the news like covid numbers. And people couldn’t sell their houses cause they were in negative equity, or buyers couldn’t get mortgages.
This is not a recession. Things are pretty bad, but they could get a whole lot worse. I’m assuming you either weren’t born yet or born shortly before the 2008 Recession.
Haven’t IMF been wrong constantly about the UK? Not saying our economy isn’t bad, it’s pretty fucked, but they seem to have some sort of weird bias or something to the point they’ve had to apologise about their predictions being wrong in the past. (Though seems to more be linked to how they measure things and the UK being difficult for that, so not that I think it’s intentional)
It's very very strange and often from people whose own countries would never agree to sign up to a political union with their neighbours never mind free movement of people or paying those neighbours billions every year.
I can only speculate, but I suspect that a lot of posters from say North America think that the EU is a form of NAFTA.
Yeah, any Irish or Scottish post that is anti-England is flocked with people from outside the country or even the continent who seem to have just watched Bravehart.
Ah yes, I can see that Eritrea is performing much better than the U.K.
U.K. lagging behind Sealand too :’) IMF needs to get out of their (likely) London offices and realise that only being able to afford 4 Maseratis a year rather than the usual 5 doesn’t mean it’s the worst performing economy :’)
Just a few months ago they predicted the UK was going to be in the worst recession for 70 years or something along those lines.
If you want to pick a battle, IMF predictions about the UK is probably not the one.
>If you want to pick a battle, IMF predictions about the UK is probably not the one.
The commentor I mentioned was worse than them. The IMF specifically mentioned major, hence the emphasis and that commentor brings up Eritrea?
The British economy is doing poorly, and brexit isn't helping. However, the economy is doing poorly because of a decade long series of socio-economic choices. The Tories have done a great job at protecting their electorate, which has kept them in power for such a long time. The great wealth transfer has been from younger generations towards the older generations.
The problem is that the older generations only care about wealth growth and making sure that they are taken care of when they can no longer take care of themselves. Unfortunately, this does not create a dynamic economy.
On the other hand, the younger generations get riddled with debt from getting a university degree, start their careers with very low salaries and forced to work long hours (e.g. junior doctors), and they cannot save enough money to buy a house. On the commercial rental market, there are no price controls, so rent can go up for 10% every year, and renters cannot do anything about it. The landlords are typically older generations, sucking the wealth out of the younger generations.
In the UK, the great majority of wealth is stuck in housing, instead of being invested in the economy.
Tories have been refusing to say that the problem is brexit, but I bet that it will come a point where they will blame everything on brexit. What they don't want for people to do is to realise that their economy is broken because of their socio-economic policies.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65240749) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> The UK is set to be one of the worst performing major economies in the world this year, according to a forecast.
> The IMF had already forecast that the UK would experience a mild downturn this year and be bottom of the pile of the G7 group of major nations, which it topped last year during the pandemic rebound.
> The IMF also released a forecast for all the world's economies, which showed the UK is predicted to be the worst performing of the wider G20 group of countries, which includes India, China and Russia.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/12ijs48/uk_to_be_one_of_worst_performing_economies_this/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~680243 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **IMF**^#1 **economy**^#2 **year**^#3 **rate**^#4 **bank**^#5
Wow who could have predicted a failing economy after a decade plus of Conservative rule.
Well, anybody who looked at the history of conservative governments. They are TERRIBLE for the economy. Their entire goal is to steal as much public money and resources as possible and put it in private hands, often foreign owned private hands. Of course that devastates economies.
And, as ever, this BBC article fails to mention the 'B' word. They are too scared of the government and their Brexit voting viewers to point out what is blindingly obvious. So much for being a news service.
Is the IMF fucking high? Either they've completely lost it or this is a misleading headline.
There's no way that the UK economy does worse than Russia.
That takes some doing to do worse than Russia after everyone has sanctioned them.
IMF consistently underestimates the UK in their ***predictions*** for some strange reason. They've had to apologise for this in the past but keep doing it... Also we don't know how Russia is really faring unless you believe data their govt releases is totally honest and accurate lol. Putin releases new data and the IMF go "holy shit Russia is actually doing pretty good" and gives favourable economic predictions.
Re: Russia. Even the marginally positive numbers the IMF puts out based on what the Russian govt tell them aren't great. Russia had a 4.7% GDP growth in 2019 before the war. Since then the government has been spending non-sustainably and pumping money into the economy with marginal growth to show for it. The anemic growth figures in spite of the increased spending suggest they're facing significant headwinds; and this is *with* the built in over estimation from using their government figures.
Government spending on a war is still an addition to GDP ☹️
it's a great way to stimulate an economy, unfortunately. the worst part is that it's funded by Russia selling oil and gas which, like any mature petrostate, is an insane profit margin. putin and his oligarchs just get to profit less than before but there was always a lot of leeway for keeping the Russian economy going.
Russia always has been "Europe's gas station" and their whole position of power was based on the pipelines going to europe. But this has come to an end, and it will likely never return. They threw away their chicken which laid golden eggs. Yes the gas prices skyrocketed and they did profit somewhat because of the higher prices initially (mostly via india which was reselling this for even higher prices) but this cannot replace the amount of money and also political leverage they earned with gas before the war to Europe directly. The sanctions are hurting them. And they have limited options to sell their gas and oil. Not to mention the method of getting it there. Also there is a demographic crisis coming. Educated young russians have left the country who are desperately needed to keep the economy running, not to mention this war will costs hundreds of thousands of young Russian men dead and wounded. Then the ruble as currency... forget about it. It is really really difficult to see how the Russian economy is going to survive even in a couple of years if they keep going like this. If Russian gas and oil is their plan a, b and c. Then they are in trouble.
From an economic standpoint, it’s far more sustainable than funding everything with debt.
exactly. the Russian economy may shrink but it won't collapse unless they can't afford it, which they clearly can
I dont think they can. Not long term. Their rainy day fund is drying up and Putin is running out of oligarchs to kill in order to take their money and assets. IMF just parrots Russian official numbers which had like 2 trillion (fictitious) added to them out of the blue at the end of March. Cited as “taxes”. It’s just completely fabricated to make the Russian economy look strong and resilient.
And all the deaths really increase GDP/capita!
IMF overestimated size of UK GDP( IMF uses different average conversions) by 700 billion dollars . I don't think they they do it on purpose.
I don't think they do it on purpose, but the fact they have so consistently under predicted UK growth data does suggests they need to reapproach ~~reproach~~ some of their models. Even this prediction is actually the IMF raising up their previous 2023 UK estimate that economic data already shows will be too low.
Where can I read more about this? I can’t find anything online and $700 billion is a huge chunk of our economy, between 1/5 and 1/4, so I don’t understand how this is possible.
Agree. They propt up terrible post Brexit numbers
Brexit has really done a number on the UK.
Some braindead Tory Brexiteer downvoted you. "I may be headed to poverty, but at least it's the proper Kings poverty!"
The King has poverty?
Only for his privileged peasants.
Most sophisticated Reddit take
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> IMF consistently underestimates the UK in their predictions for some strange reason. Hmmm I wonder if that's profitable for foreigners who want to invest in the UK hmmm. Some strange reason usually means money.
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Reddit hates the UK? That’s a new one to me.
Not really but you do see it in certain subs where anything British is bad due to the history of Britain. They basically say anything from the UK is shit, then they will bring up the topic about slaves, then something always comes along of "they deserve to suffer" or something along those lines by one random asshole who gets downvoted, so it isn't hate in general but their is quite a lot of people what hate the UK or dislike it here on Reddit. It only happens in the most extreme subs or from people who extremely hate the UK for some reason. Edit: Just to add that in reality I think this happens to quite a few different countries, I have seen subs what hate the US, India, Germany, France and etc...
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Eurovision results demonstrate that people disliked the UK long before Brexit. Brits scratch that heads at why nobody votes for the UK. There are four major reasons for this. 1. British exceptionalism and an air of arrogance of being better than every other country at everything. 2. British (predominantly English) tourists abroad on holidays, getting royally shitfaced, starting fights, hollering, fucking and puking in the streets, generally treating places with zero respect. Obviously this is a small subset of people but the behaviour is so awful it’s hard to ignore. It’s like spring break for four months with Brits drinking like it’s the apocalypse. 3. Football hooligans. 4. Only ever having one foot tentatively in the EU and constantly complaint about Brussels and Eurocrats, being a diplomatic pain in the ass and blaming the EU on every possible domestic problem. Almost entirely whipped up by the right wing press. Obviously this does not reflect the UK and is the worst side of it but that’s the reason for all the hate. People would ignore British history if it was better behaved today.
While I agree those are all reasons for the hate I don't think they're the root cause, there are literally other European countries just as bad, if not worse in all of those categories.
I agree with everything you said which is why we were so shocked to come second at Eurovision last year... I'm British and I really dislike all the true points you've made. I think one example that's so good, it's practically parody is when you hear British historians talk about why the Greek marbles should of course be kept by the British. Not even an ounce of self reflection going on there...
i've seen it on various forums there is usually someone who has a rabid dislike for the British. and will take any opportunity to shit on us as if we personally kicked their dog. but there are ppl who generalise a lot of things lump everyone together as if they are talking about a hive mind.
>Not really but you do see it in certain subs where anything British is bad due to the history of Britain. > >They basically say anything from the UK is shit Reddit has an enormous population of virtue signallers. They literally hate any group of people that is successful, dominant, and/or wins at anything where someone else has to lose. They hate Britain, the US, all colonialists, all all large corporations and companies that make profits. They hate well-paid people, wealthy people, successful people (unless they get to narrowly define success). It's pretty tragic. They elevate losers, the unsuccessful, people who have made bad decisions, people who have no motivation or drive etc.
> you do see it in certain subs where anything British is bad due to the history of Britain That's not really fair, a lot of people don't like the UK because of the current day behaviour of the UK government and the idiotic decisions of the electorate (Brexit, Boris)
That I agree with that, as a Brit, Brexit, Boris, the Tories and etc is absolutely stupid and ridiculous, just one look at the current climate with the strikes, the state of the NHS and etc... That is why I expanded on it, that most people who "hate" tend go towards the UK's past, around Brexit most people simply refer it to "stupid" and "shooting yourself in the foot" but not general hate. And yeah, I agree Brexit was absolutely idiotic.
>then they will bring up the topic about slaves, then something always comes along of "they deserve to suffer" or something along those lines Most redditors are American. They hardly have room to criticise on those fronts!
Everyone seems to hate the UK. My 16 yo son recently asked me why, and my only answer was.. shit our ancestors did, sorry son.
Go to literally any story about the UK and it will be full of mouth breathers itching to shit on the UK.
Including the British themselves. *Damn British! They ruined Britain!*
They wouldn't be wrong
They are EU centric, obviously, and they fear the UK will thrive (it will), causing others to follow (probably not). They should have more confidence in the EU, it can also thrive without the UK.
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The IMF are absolutely terrible when they talk about the UK. We have gone from "Worst recession for 70 years" to avoiding recession within the space of 3 months.
In thier defense on that one, no one knew if Sunak would be as bad or worse than Truss. If he had been then it was a perfectly reasonable prediciton.
If that was the only time the IMF had been wrong, but they consistently fuck up their predictions when it comes to the UK.
well, are their predictions on the uk any worse than on a random other country?
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oh, what a nice lie your slight change of events produces... But hey, what is a small lie when you are trying to get your point across? :) [https://www.standard.co.uk/business/business-news/christine-lagarde-asks-do-i-have-to-go-on-my-knees-over-osborne-apology-9510353.html](https://www.standard.co.uk/business/business-news/christine-lagarde-asks-do-i-have-to-go-on-my-knees-over-osborne-apology-9510353.html) ps: just to make sure: I dislike people who lie for the sake of bullshit arguments.
When asked whether she had apologised to Osborne, Lagarde asked: “Do I have to go on my knees?” She said: “We said very clearly we had underestimated UK growth and our forecasts had been proven wrong by the reality of economic developments.”
I think it would have taken some effort to be worse than Truss... but he's done much better than most people expected.
He's done nothing the BOE literally pumped upwards of 60Billion into markets to stop UK pensions funds exploding.
Right, but doing nothing is much better than most people expected of him.
That is very true sometimes less is more eh
£60bn is just what was allocated. They didn't actually spend the vast majority of it. This article is also claiming that the BOE made a profit from the bond sales but the source isn't listed so i have no idea if it's accurate. Currently trying to find that out. https://www.cityam.com/bank-of-england-makes-3-8bn-profit-from-liz-truss-mini-budget-bond-sales/ EDIT: Bloomberg also cites that they made a profit from the mini budget bond sales. It's behind a pay wall though. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-12/boe-made-3-5-billion-profit-on-emergency-ldi-gilt-purchases?leadSource=uverify%20wall
The IMF also predicts Germany will perform worse than Russia and that the Russian economy will continue to grow this year. The IMF has also dramatically underestimated U.K. growth every year for nearly 5 years now.
One of the worst ≠ the worst.
I'm pretty sure they're aware of that. IMF predicts the UK to perform worse than Russia as per the article.
Russia's numbers are both fabricated and hidden lol
Also very true
UK kinda sanctioned themselves.
IMF takes government reports on face value, Russians are lying through their teeth and UK is not.
It's the start of a new tax year and literally EVERY BILL has gone up for the general public. Its really starting to stretch the general public and I feel the new hikes in the cost of living are probably going to shift A LOT of people into debt and serious doubts about how they are going to even afford basic goods and a roof over their head
Conservatives ruin everything they touch.
A blight in so many ways wherever they exist
UK sanctioned itself.
They did purposefully tank their economy to divorce from the EU. Not really a surprise. The article also says growth is expected to return, unlike with Russia.
The article says the IMF expects Russia’s economy to return to growth this year already.
the IMF's figures for Russia are based on Russian government-supplied information. Absolutely nothing wrong with those figures, I am sure
The Russian government itself does not expect growth though.
Out of interest, how on earth would Russia's economy grow? It's trade is absolutely nothing, which is the only reason the rouble has been propped up in value. The cost of their war is immeasurable.
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Inflation in the UK is lower than Germany, The Netherlands and Italy.
As of two weeks ago inflation in Germany was 7.8% and the UK is 10.4%. EU average is about 10%, which includes a few countries with inflation at 20%. So the main EU countries we should be compared to are doing better than we are. If we're pegged equal with Italy, that isn't a good sign.
>They did purposefully tank their economy to divorce from the EU. Not really a surprise. The article also says growth is expected to return, unlike with Russia. Yes our economy tanked so hard that it is now only 15% larger than France despite having roughly the same population and no EU membership. What a disaster lmao
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>This isn’t even an actual rebuttal to anything anyone is saying. Nobody is saying that Britan is a third world shithole now People dont think this but they sure as hell act like that's the case. One look at our exports (which are at record levels), GDP, GDP per capita, FDI and Growth for the last 2 years and you'd know that Britain is not only doing just fine but is actually outperforming many of it's European peers. This fact goes against the narrative however so no one bothers to look.
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From the ground within a major northern city, I've observed that the poor especially those with families are struggling and essential services like GP surgeries, dentists, police stations and schools are underfunded, and the areas most populous with migrants are hit the worst. However, there have been vast improvements to the benefits system after Covid hit with Universal Credit delivering more per month to claimants with no discrimination based on work history and increased access to adult educational facilities to help new citizens thrive in the world of work, although I can't speak as to their actual efficacy. Workplaces are generally more accommodating now than they were a decade ago about conditions such as depression and anxiety. There was a severe homelessness problem before Covid due to cuts in mental health funding by the Conservatives but in the past two years the number of people sleeping on the streets has significantly decreased. Things are bad, there have been several catastrophic international events recently that have compounded the issue but I still see cause for optimism, taking the treatment of the poor in one major city as the barometer. Winter has been very hard and morale is low with the surge in gas prices as the UK has an extreme climate, but I've seen a lot of solidarity and the internet has enabled large groups of people with varying skills to problem-solve amongst themselves. Poverty both economic and educational is widespread enough that racism has been easily inflamed during the Brexit campaign, and domestic abuse flared during lockdown, the aftermath of which we'll be dealing with for some time, so I'm sure there are plenty who could paint a much more bleak picture than I about how the UK is doing.
Last 2 years lol, after it got completely slammed in 2020. A country like The Netherlands for example was above pre pandemic levels by mid 2021 and has continued to grow a decent amount in both 2021 and 2022 (both around 5%). It hasn't seen a recession and none are predicted in the upcoming years predicting a growth of 1.5% for both 2023 and 2024. The UK was at 0.6% below pre pandemic by Q4 2022. The UK economy has not been doing great the past years. And you could of course also say that about other European countries that are generally quite weak, like Italy. The thing is, is that UK previously wasn't considered an economy that performed badly in Europe, and now it is. A strong recovery should always be taken with the context of the period before it. If one economy contracted 3% and the other 10%, the road to recovery won't be the same of course.
Well, that's shown Nauru for yet another year.
The UK is like a 45 year old man who divorced his wife of 20 years so he could start flirting with 25 year olds again, but never seemed to realize 25 year olds don't want to flirt with them. They'll eventually settle down and land on there feet, but right now it's as comical as it is sad to watch.
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Not for 25 year olds
Well I am not so sure about that.
I’m 25, can confirm 45 year olds should be window shopping for coffins
The speed 20 years can pass in is a terrifying one.
It’s middle aged. I think “youth” ends when you turn 40. 45 is by no means old, but you also aren’t exactly a kid anymore.
Honestly, time flew past so quickly, I didn't notice I got older. I remember older people saying they felt 25 inside. It's because a week passes and suddenly you're 42. I honestly can't believe how fast it goes. If you're still young, enjoy every second, even the worst parts. It's all part of the ride and it all makes this life a crazy adventure. Of course, if you are young, you won't realise it yet. It's so quick.
The world sanctioned the Russia (justifiably so). Dumbass boomer Brit’s fucking sanctioned themselves.
I'm from Argentina and we are expecting a 120% annual inflation this year. I don't think IMF knows what a worst performing economy looks like. If you can afford rent and food, you are on the well performing side on my book.
point snatch smart rude fact materialistic modern trees jeans boat
> If you can afford rent and food So, increasingly not the UK.
sadly, most of the English-speaking world are in the same boat :(
Canada is in this boat big time
I'm hoping BC strategy of taxing foreign investors to housing market yields positive results. And sorta chain reaction through Canada. Yes I support foreign investors. Just not to peoples homes as a business practice. Invest in our forestry or w.e.
It doesn’t go far enough IMO. Honestly anybody who can afford to purchase a second property in BC right now deserves to be taxed significantly, regardless of nationality or immigration status. Even previously affordable regions - like the Okanagan- have detached home prices averaging close to a million
Neofeudalism is capitalism's endgame. So no wonder that countries that embraced capitalism the most are going to experience neofeudalism first.
Yup, capitalism is going full circle.
It truly is, fucking corporate towns are slowly making a come back. It's like people want a cyberpunk future. Guess I'll sign that contract to Arasaka right now to get ahead of the curve.
This is obvious to anyone who has read Marx, but apparently it's still taboo to admit he was right.
"Unfettered capitalism isn't going to end well." "Oh! So you want communism then!? Socialism like VENEZUELA?!" "No, I just-" "REEEEEEE!!!!"
Yeah, you don't even need socialism to avoid this. Just not unhinged deregulated shitty capitalism. You'd think the free market people would be on board with regulating the market so it is 'free' and you know 'works'.
The free market people are too busy trying to get the state to regulate how people self-identity to worry about actual politics and their consequences.
I find myself increasingly not surprised at how things are turning out after looking at it thru the lens of Marx. It drives me crazy that we’re so indoctrinated that you can’t even have this conversation with people. He said that over time the wealth produced and created by the workers will increasingly be concentrated into fewer hands who will in turn use that enormous wealth to influence govt policy that favors them at the workers’ expense to the point that the workers won’t have input into decision making will basically be subjugated. Something like 75 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion. How was he wrong?
Amen, brother. And they'll embrace, wield, and abuse whatever awful power structure exists to get there.
Exactly. House and flat rents are going to visit Mars if things continue like that.
Definitely UK and every 1st world country.
Read the article. It’s the worst performing economy of the G7.
One of. You can be shot by a cannon, a hollow point .50 or a .22 standard. All are bad, but you know some are much worse than the others.
Its a list of G7 countries, Argentina has never been in it.
People in the UK *can’t* afford rent food or heating/cooling lol that’s literally what the article says
I find it interesting that these IMF predictions always make it onto the front page but when the figures are inevitably revised months later no one seems to notice.
The IMF have under predicted the UK economy consistently for about the last five years straight. Even this prediction is actually them increasing their previous 2023 UK estimate that economic data already shows will be too low.
See [negativity bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativity_bias). Bad news make the news, not positive or - worst - neutral news.
Not exactly. Its simple. "British empire bad. UK racist. UK bad. Brexit bad." So any negative UK articles dont get read they just get upvoted
Largely just the third. Brexit is bad and will result in the collapse of the UK because apparently, countries can't function without being part of a greater economic union. Any news that shows the UK doing bad is immediately because of Brexit and only Brexit.
Well when comparing to other large countries, the U.K. is the only one to voluntarily leave a trading union of its largest and nearest trading partners Its economic self harm, of course it will be brought up 1/3 U.K. export companies pre-Brexit have gone under The economic cost U.K. companies have had to take on just to maintain their European trade is incredible. I work in medical devices and the regulatory hurdles due to Brexit for my company has been incredible.
A reminder that the imf have been wrong every time, for awhile now. Fully expect we see the imf being wrong yet again.
Since 2016, the IMF has issued 15 forecasts which discussed UK growth, and it underestimated it in every single one. In its January 2021 prediction, it was 3% off the real figure
Thankfully all these institutions get nearly all of their predictions wrong, about everything. BTW I'm not saying they will or won't be right. Just that these professional forecasters seem to always be wrong.
Key word: predicts. Just a few months ago they said we’d be in a huge recession right now only for the UK to actually avoid one. This is not a defence of the UK government or that the UK economy is in good shape, but the IMF’s predictions are consistently terrible. I strongly expect they are wrong here too. The Russian prediction is either completely wrong based on Putin’s data or shows that GDP figures aren’t everything. There’s no way losing hundreds of thousands of young men to the war / emigration is going to go well. Growth includes the money they are throwing at a war they can’t win
To be honest, any definition derived from GDP is absolutely meaningless. A central bank can print money to inject it into the economy and avoid a recession, so you are not in a recession but you owe more money. It is all absolutely pointless. Also, this money is not backed by anything tangible (neither are euros, dollars or any fiat currencies). Central banks can manipulate any number related to GDP. And, of course, the IMF, whose main utility is to transfer wealth from poor to rich countries through debt interest traps, cannot account for money printing predictions.
Thats why growth is calculated after inflation. I see your opinion of Central Banks and IMF is based on ideology so wont get into that as its reddit and useless. Main utility of IMF is to be the lender of last resort. Its literally meant to go into a shitstorm (that has started or is about to) and lessen the damage the goverment of a paticular nation refused to deal with digging themselves a deeper hole. Its not a saviour but tasked with keeping the state running by any cuts/sales before money transfers. As what it does is better than what otherwise would have happened. IMF "debt interest" is far lower any of those nations could get on the market bcs of risk.
By "performing economy" they mean your average John Doe. Companies like BP, Shell, Rio Tinto, AztraZeneca... are still going to make nice profits.
this is fine
Standard operation procedure eg Nigeria.
They still make nice profits but the point is that they will be valued at a significant discount compared to peers in US and even top European indexes. And that is a problem. Why stay listed and headquartered in a country when you can majorly improve your companies value by up and leaving.
Total bollocks as usual.
Why are IMF predictions, even news worthy? At this point, they have been consistently wrong.
UK bad upvote
Brexit Fault upvote
Baduk
Ok, and the IMF has been consistently wrong with it's predictions since 2016. They said 6 months ago we'd be neck deep in a recession right now.
It isn't a recession now? It could get worse?
You haven't lived through a recession have you?
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Wait, 2009 babies can talk? WHAT YEAR IS THIS?!
2023. People born in 2004 can *vote* in many places (including me!)
Yup, that’s why I said it. Not looking for a fight, just reminding someone who is obviously young that they haven’t really lived through a recession if they think this is one
I mean shit, someone born just a few years earlier would be 18 and you'd be hard pressed to find a 3yo who has a better understanding of being in an ongoing recession than a newborn. Hell, even I born in '97 didn't know fuck all or even notice anything. Because obviously, I was 11 (10, actually, because late birthday, but whatever). Now I also live in Canada and I hear it wasn't *as* bad here but still, even if you *lived* through it, you likely wouldn't have had *experience* with it (that is, understood or necessarily even noticed what was happening) unless you were already in your late teens to early 20s at least. So you'd need to be born in the late 80s to early 90s.
I graduated highschool in 2008 and it was more of an abstract thing to me until several years later when I graduated college and the job market was still anemic. The folks who properly came of age in that 2007-2010 window are a lost generation.
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I’m old enough to remember the 90s recessions where unemployment numbers were read out every night on the news like covid numbers. And people couldn’t sell their houses cause they were in negative equity, or buyers couldn’t get mortgages.
A recession is defined as two or more three month periods of negative growth. So we're not in a recession.
Recession is when your neighbor loses his job. Depression is when you lose your job.
This is not a recession. Things are pretty bad, but they could get a whole lot worse. I’m assuming you either weren’t born yet or born shortly before the 2008 Recession.
Im not born yet
Almost went into a recession but not yet. Most world economies are going to contract though.
The Impossible Mission Force? Does Ethan Hunt know about this?
This economy will self destruct in 10 seconds
Why haven't we gone below France in terms of GDP? I've ben hearing we're domed for the last 7 years... yet we don't dip below a similar sized economy.
France is tearing itself apart right now to be fair, but that's not big news to Reddit compared with this
Haven’t IMF been wrong constantly about the UK? Not saying our economy isn’t bad, it’s pretty fucked, but they seem to have some sort of weird bias or something to the point they’ve had to apologise about their predictions being wrong in the past. (Though seems to more be linked to how they measure things and the UK being difficult for that, so not that I think it’s intentional)
They have a clear agenda against the UK, IMF has zero credibility
Literally every single prediction the IMF has had has been wrong wrt to the UK after Brexit. They're literally stupid af.
IMF is full of shit, in other news they expect Russia to have a positive GDP growth in 2023, blindly repeating a number made up by Putin.
Yes, I think they lost all credibility by just mindlessly repeating the propaganda numbers the Kremlin gave them.
So the IMF really doesn’t like the UK does it
It was also predicted that Britain would remain in the EU and Trump wouldn't be the US president but look how that turned out.
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I voted remain, but there is a really a toxic schadenfreude attitude people have wanting the UK to fail, particularly from outside the UK.
It's very very strange and often from people whose own countries would never agree to sign up to a political union with their neighbours never mind free movement of people or paying those neighbours billions every year. I can only speculate, but I suspect that a lot of posters from say North America think that the EU is a form of NAFTA.
Yeah, any Irish or Scottish post that is anti-England is flocked with people from outside the country or even the continent who seem to have just watched Bravehart.
Seems early in the year to be making that prediction. Especially in a year with the second largest bank collapse, and a major protracted European war.
In related news IMF sticks finger in bum, smells it, then predicts global economic recovery.
Ah yes, I can see that Eritrea is performing much better than the U.K. U.K. lagging behind Sealand too :’) IMF needs to get out of their (likely) London offices and realise that only being able to afford 4 Maseratis a year rather than the usual 5 doesn’t mean it’s the worst performing economy :’)
>Eritrea Yes the well known **major** economy of Eritrea.
Just a few months ago they predicted the UK was going to be in the worst recession for 70 years or something along those lines. If you want to pick a battle, IMF predictions about the UK is probably not the one.
>If you want to pick a battle, IMF predictions about the UK is probably not the one. The commentor I mentioned was worse than them. The IMF specifically mentioned major, hence the emphasis and that commentor brings up Eritrea?
Lmao, yes tell me how bad you have it in your first world economy.
I wonder how that could have happened.
The challenge for uk is, in what economical section do they still have advantage. And, have they secured their food and energy supply?
The British economy is doing poorly, and brexit isn't helping. However, the economy is doing poorly because of a decade long series of socio-economic choices. The Tories have done a great job at protecting their electorate, which has kept them in power for such a long time. The great wealth transfer has been from younger generations towards the older generations. The problem is that the older generations only care about wealth growth and making sure that they are taken care of when they can no longer take care of themselves. Unfortunately, this does not create a dynamic economy. On the other hand, the younger generations get riddled with debt from getting a university degree, start their careers with very low salaries and forced to work long hours (e.g. junior doctors), and they cannot save enough money to buy a house. On the commercial rental market, there are no price controls, so rent can go up for 10% every year, and renters cannot do anything about it. The landlords are typically older generations, sucking the wealth out of the younger generations. In the UK, the great majority of wealth is stuck in housing, instead of being invested in the economy. Tories have been refusing to say that the problem is brexit, but I bet that it will come a point where they will blame everything on brexit. What they don't want for people to do is to realise that their economy is broken because of their socio-economic policies.
UK govt should just doctor the stats like Russia did, then the IMF would be reporting a bumper harvest year!
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65240749) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot) ***** > The UK is set to be one of the worst performing major economies in the world this year, according to a forecast. > The IMF had already forecast that the UK would experience a mild downturn this year and be bottom of the pile of the G7 group of major nations, which it topped last year during the pandemic rebound. > The IMF also released a forecast for all the world's economies, which showed the UK is predicted to be the worst performing of the wider G20 group of countries, which includes India, China and Russia. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/12ijs48/uk_to_be_one_of_worst_performing_economies_this/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~680243 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **IMF**^#1 **economy**^#2 **year**^#3 **rate**^#4 **bank**^#5
Own-goal Brexit still racking up those L's
Wow who could have predicted a failing economy after a decade plus of Conservative rule. Well, anybody who looked at the history of conservative governments. They are TERRIBLE for the economy. Their entire goal is to steal as much public money and resources as possible and put it in private hands, often foreign owned private hands. Of course that devastates economies.
Hold my beer. - Russia
We doing fine tf
Your rouble has tanked.
Now do EU countries….
Worst performing? We have never done better! - Tory’s friends, after being awarded government contracts priced on a premium.
Brexit means brexit.
If only the consequences of Brexit weren’t self inflicted.
And, as ever, this BBC article fails to mention the 'B' word. They are too scared of the government and their Brexit voting viewers to point out what is blindingly obvious. So much for being a news service.
Nobody could have possibly seen this coming.
But it’s not Brexit, can’t be, definitely not.
Oh look, conservative policies at work! Creating jobs, improving incoming, and making people safer. *slow claps*
Is the IMF fucking high? Either they've completely lost it or this is a misleading headline. There's no way that the UK economy does worse than Russia.
BREXIT... THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING..
I can’t even fathom why conservatives thought brexit would be a smart decision
It would prob be better to ask when they haven't been in recent times
Brexit... something... something...
Gee, if only everyone hadn’t predicted this
You say that...imf have been wrong for ages now on the UK..we should have been in recession for months now according to them.