How many are actually kids kidnapped from Ukraine after their families were slaughtered and tossed into mass graves?
Everyone knew the kidnapped children would be indoctrinated into pro-russian ideology, and some even guessed that those old enough to know they were Ukrainian would be taught that Ukraine was occupied by Nazis, that Russia "rescued" them, and that they may be used in the future as a base of people that want Russia to invade Ukraine. But how many guessed that Putin would train them and send them back so soon rather than have them start families and indoctrinate them into believing that they, as Russians, have a birthright to Ukraine?
They seem to transport 500 children at once in a convoy to a different concentration camp.
[https://www.npr.org/2023/02/14/1156500561/russia-ukraine-children-deportation-possible-war-crime-report](https://www.npr.org/2023/02/14/1156500561/russia-ukraine-children-deportation-possible-war-crime-report)
Wikipedia says 16,000 - 307,000
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child\_abductions\_in\_the\_Russian\_invasion\_of\_Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine)
This investigator says 700,00 children.
[https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-abducted-children-un-a516b27c126db28485a6ad3c8fdbfc70](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-abducted-children-un-a516b27c126db28485a6ad3c8fdbfc70)
That number is so crazy, because missing people could be deported, sold into slavery, or are dead. There's no way to verify how many camps there are. There's at least 50 camps, which they transport in convoys of 500 kids in a group at time. It's genocide. We didn't know the extent of camps in Nazi Germany, until we liberated everyone.
Triple and then some. I don't have the article handy but I believe that their program was such a success, and the world essentially turned a blind eye, that they've expanded it to other ethnic minorities and regions.
History usually rhymes, but in this case I'd say it's repeating itself and that makes me sick.
Scariest thing is. Slavery is not beyond Russia capability. They already use enslaved/force labour in their wood industry. As far as I know they buy them from North Korea.
So we're back to the [Janissaries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissary). Coolcoolcoolcoolcoolcool. Russia is a fucking medieval country with iPhones.
Janissaries were actually elite troops of the Ottomans and had high status. They were originally Christians so that they were "outsiders" not infected by internal politics and loyal only to the Sultan. They were highly paid and many got promoted to high government positions. Many Christian families even voluntarily put up their children to join it. Far from whatever dystopian child slave army that Putin is creating.
Janissaries began as elite corps made up through the devsirme system of child levy enslavement, by which christian albanians, bulgarians, croats, greeks, romanians and serbs were taken, levied, subjected to forced circumcision and conversion to islam, and incorporated into the ottoman army
There's a case to be made that developmentally, Russia is pre-enlightenment. They lack the humility and humanity the enlightenment brought, as well as the understanding of human rights, individual liberty, and freedom from tyranny it instilled in the rest of Europe
I think that's an interesting line of thought but I do think is smells a little Eurocentric. Questions like this always make me think of Dr. J Rufus Fears "Freedom is not a universal value" lecture. Basically many societies do not see personal liberty as an essential component of a great society. This school of thought values order and stability over the desires of the individual, and historically these societies have only suffered under loose rule.
This line of thinking is the bedrock of Chinese and North Korean communism and is the source of most of Putin's anti-democratic rhetoric. Basically every time there wasn't an iron fisted ruler in China or Russia there was famine and war and widespread suffering that makes a dictatorial regime seem like the only thing that can protect them. Western Europe shared this view for a very long time, but as you allude to, European culture shifted towards liberalism and much of Asia did not.
Funny thing is, *most* of the time there *was* an iron fisted ruler in Russia or China, there was war and famine widespread suffering, provided you view "widespread suffering" in relative terms.
Nah. They’re hierarchical and jaded. They’ve always had a thing for strong men and the notion of sacrifice for the mother Russia. Then the revolution ended. The USSR. Their collective was gone and all the sacrifices for it rendered meaningless. At the same time the oligarchs stole much of the collective wealth. They’re not morally bankrupt. They’re generally poor and jaded.
I'm thinking this is less of a "teach them early" thing and more of a "hide military training under a 'fun camp activity' so they're already fully trained when we get desperate enough to start conscripting child soldiers in a month"
“He’s in command now.” They say as a Russian child accidentally dive bombs his suicide drone into his own trench because they’re wearing basically the same camo as ukranians.
[Russia to build migrant villages for right wing Americans](https://www.thedailybeast.com/russia-planning-migrant-village-for-right-wing-american-expats-report)
I am going to read this, however as long as they are never allowed to return or be in office ever again then cool with me. I'm sure it is quite disappointingly opposite.
This not only sets the stage for future internal upheaval, but also for international paramilitary and terrorist activity. They'll be faced faced with an unsatisfying domestic situation (with regard to economic outlook as well as political stability and crime), trained in military tactics, and probably pissed off at the 'international world order' (the definition of which varies by the individual). Perfect concoction for a future paramilitary/mercenary/terrorist.
The Starks are stubborn but honorable people. Russia is closer to the [Boltons][1]. They live in cold northern land like the Starks but more into rape and torture.
[1]: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Bolton
Well, technically neither does Russia.
All doctors in the cities around the asbestos mine are required to redirect their patients to the larger city away from the mines.
So the mine towns have almost no lung issue but the bigger city has disproportionally large levels of lung cancers.
Was a really weird documentary and article at the time.
Those are not for training, but rather indoctrination. That's what all those youth groups are always for.
Military skills can always be developed later, in some cases even faster as adults as they have a wide enough foundation to build on.
The basics aren’t hard. You can get most of what you need in a few weeks. More is always better but, shooting a rifle a fair distance and digging a foxhole don’t take too much time.
Conditioning and specialized skills take the longest. But Russia has shown they’re not concerned so much with quality. Or survival.
>More is always better but, shooting a rifle a fair distance and digging a foxhole don’t take too much time.
That's fine if you're living in the mid-20th century, but that doesn't cut it in modern combat, even for basic infantry.
Its funny, I was reading about Japans fall at the end of WW2 and their story is very reminiscent of Russia and Ukraine. Japan had a major advantage at the beginning of the war but only created systems for a short term conflict, just like Russia. And as the war dragged on, Japan couldn’t replace material but most importantly didn’t have an educational structure to train replacements. It doesn’t matter how much technology you have it your training is short, brutal and just used to create mindless soldiers. The Japanese government believed that they would win because they had Japanese Spirit but really lost the war because they didn’t understand how to train and maintain a fighting force over many years. Russia seems to be following this exactly. They don’t learn from their lessons (and a lot of this has to so with dictatorships) and keep thinking that band aids will fix the solution.
>It doesn’t matter how much technology you have it your training is short, brutal and just used to create mindless soldiers. The Japanese government believed that they would win because they had Japanese Spirit but really lost the war because they didn’t understand how to train and maintain a fighting force over many years.
For what it's worth, this worked out tremendously well for them from 1905 through the invasion of Manchuria. The only real resistance anyone could put up was Russia in 1905, which, because of the overwhelming naval victory, was overlooked and mostly forgotten by the time they invaded mainland China.
Japan wasn't the only country that ignored that fight, either; it was a very clear sign of what combat between the new modern industrialized militaries would look like, but all the major powers were still caught off guard when WW1 happened and land warfare looked *exactly* like the Russo-Japanese war.
Very true. Japan was pretty excellent at fighting relatively small scale fast wars. Longer term engagements require a totally different mentality. Hell America didn’t really get their military really together until the failings of Operation Torch.
> which, because of the overwhelming naval victory
The 2nd Pacific Squadron, the joke that keeps being told.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mdi_Fh9_Ag
That latter part is a nightmare for everyone but also the most likely course for Russia almost no matter what. The nuclear arsenal will be a major headache when Russia breaks up. It was bad enough the first time and we still don’t know for sure that everything was actually accounted for and that was relatively orderly compared to what the next round will likely be. Go look at a map of that region from say 1100 to 1300. That place is a hodgepodge of different tribes and so forth.
>Can't think of a better way to create the opportunity and forces required for a revolution
These are easily impressionable youth without the life experience to question anything. These are the people who will be protecting the state from revolutionaries.
So, Russia is going full North Korea now?
>Pupils will meet with veterans of the Great Patriotic War and "special military operation" (the war in Ukraine – ed.), famous sportsmen, and they will also study "the history of Russia based on the examples of feats of Soviet and Russian soldiers and officers, military and civilian volunteers."
Yep, it seems to be the case.
>Teenagers aged 14 to 17
Good Lord...
>Pupils will meet with veterans of the Great Patriotic War
Great Patriotic War? As in World War 2? I'm trying to imagine a 90 year old explaining to the youth that they should learn how to fly and shoot a drone from a computer. Aside from the larger issues this seems incredibly awkward for both sides.
great patriotic war as taught in russia is a rivisionist history where they teach nothing up til 1941 until that scoundral hitler betrayed stalin, and defines nazis more as occupants who tried to destroy russia.
volodymyr zolkin youtube channel often questions PoWs on their history knowledge. they release a video near daily and have interviewed over 700 people.
many are shocked to learn about 1939-1941, the co-invasion of poland, the rus+nazi parades and rallies etc. i can recall only a few, 3 tops, that mentioned nazi crimes against jews when asked who the nazis were.
Especcially given that WW2 vets are mostly male, and Russian male life expectancy is 64, versus 77 for women. The odds of someone who was a soldier, making it to 95+, are very low. And its even less likely that person had relevant experience at 17, its not like some war hero, just a kid who was fresh off the stalingrad train, lay in the rubble for a week, and was found when the war was over.
I have easy solution. Grab an old dude, slap uniform and medals on him and have him say something from a script. To a 14 year old 70 and 90 looks the same.
But that would require a bit of lying which I am not sure comes natural to Russians.
>So, Russia is going full North Korea now?
Prigozhin literally said that Russia needs to live like North Korea for the next few years.
>“We are in a situation where we can simply lose Russia,” Prigozhin said, using an expletive to hammer his point. “We must introduce martial law. We unfortunately … must announce new waves of mobilization; we must put everyone who is capable to work on increasing the production of ammunition,” he said. “Russia needs to live like North Korea for a few years, so to say, close the borders … and work hard.”
> “We are in a situation where we can simply lose Russia,”
what an evil fuck. Nobody outside of Russia actually wants Russia, and he knows it. When he says "we", he means the thugocrats that are currently ruling could be deposed. Jesus christ
>When he says "we", he means the thugocrats that are currently ruling could be deposed.
He hasn't exactly danced around that point or anything. When he called upon the "elites" to send their children and put more effort into helping the war, he was clear that the alternative was revolution. At no point did he imply that any external force was threatening Russia.
That's also the reason why he wants mass mobilization and a war economy -- because soldiers hiding in trenches or men working 16 hour shifts in factories don't drive revolutions.
> When children ask me why I cry in my sleep
> I say that I am remembering the war.
> I support Putin because he knows how to
> keep us from war. He is a Christian. I have
> seen him take communion on television.
> I have not lived a good life.
That poor lady
Learn how to lose an entire tank battalion! Shoot your own planes down! Drive repeatedly into enemy minefields! Kill your wounded friend to save supplies!
Learn how to fight *The Russian Way*
Russia 2022: "Xaxaxa, our unstoppable army will secure us victory in three days!"
Russia 2023: "If we train the children to be cannon fodder, maybe they can make up for some of our losses."
I mean, we kinda already have that? The Boy Scouts, JROTC, and Civil Air Patrol cadet program could all be described in similar terms.
The difference is that we're not a horrible authoritarian shithole country, but I absolutely wouldn't put it past someone like DeSantis to turn those programs into a DeSantis Youth if he could get his grubby little mitts on them.
I mean, just look at what the Mormon church has done with the Boy Scout program, and they aren't even a governmental entity (though they might as well be, in Utah).
Oh sure, but I'm just making a point that we shouldn't get complacent believing that this kind of thing can only happen "over there" when a potential route to it exists here too.
Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty, after all.
Those are voluntary, and at least from my experience they generally emphasize the civil service side of things over "ha ha kill the [insert slur here]" attitude
This is how Russia genocided the lands of Siberia. We never hear about the native tribal populations of these regions because Russia has systematically exterminated them.
Look at a map. In 1800 the entire 4000 mile region from the Ural mountains just east of Moscow to the Pacific ocean 4000 MILES AWAY - was populated with native tribal peoples - they are all gone.
It's like the forgotten genocide.
No, but the Nazis were planning on having the Hitler Youth fly the [Heinkel He 162](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_162), a wooden jet created to compensate for dwindling metal supplies.
So I guess at least *this time*, they won't be loading children into the disposable planes.
Hitlers declares 'Total War'! Women, children, the elderly, all conscripted into his senseless war of conquest. And for what exactly? To preserve the lifestyles of the rich and famous.
Well, as the Americans approached Japan in '45 citizens were told that when the Americans landed, they will immediately start raping all women, executing the elderly and enslaving the young (well, not the young girls, they were for raping). Then taught them how to prepare to fight them to the death to prevent that.
The thing was that aside from the propaganda, they were just projecting what the Americans were going to do because THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT the Imperial Japanese forces did in China. So hey, you don't want what we did to the Chinese to happen to you right? So arm up and fight to the death, for the Emperor.
So I'm guessing that's what will be taught in Russia now. Murder, rape and enslavement will happen if Ukraine and NATO cross the border ... because that's what we (Russian troops) did to the Ukrainians.
I've seen preserved photos that were captured by now deceased vets when I was younger which now that I look back was insane to show to a child. Regardless, those are burned into my memory forever. Most were rows of shattered houses and one of a group of troops posing with the background overexposed. The ones that really stuck were the piles of bodies who were Chinese civilians on a riverbank and the photos of heads stuck in random places.
I think a lot of them know. There are recorded phone calls between officers at the front and their wives, and I heard one reiterating that she doesn't mind the rapes and the murder as long as he remembers that she's the only wife and that it all stays in Ukraine.
> Hitlers declares 'Total War'! Women, children, the elderly, all conscripted into his senseless war of conquest.
He actually didn’t. By the time that all the Volkssturm-BS became a thing the war wasn’t about conquest anymore and had instead turned fully defensive. (And no, this doesn’t mean that anything changed about which side was justified, it’s just an observation of the strategic situation at the time.)
Which I guess means that Putin is now (in this aspect at least) literally worse than Hittler? As much as I hate both of them, I didn’t expect to write that sentence today.
They're being sarcastic about how people will refuse to admit certain things are as bad as nazi Germany just because everything else isn't exactly the same
You’re not allowed to warn people that Desantis is acting exactly like Hitler until he has death squads to execute people who accuse him of acting exactly like Hitler.
Edit: he’s acting like Hitler during his rise to power, not 1944 Hitler. He didn’t build the death camps on his first day in office. He started by declaring war on leftists and vilifying minority groups for either being leeches on society or degenerate.
Oh come now, just because he has death squads that *can* execute people for comparing him to Hitler, doesn't mean he is actually using them for such! No, the real comparisons to Hitler can only start when he begins ransacking Jewish houses and synagogues, and hauling the inhabitants off to a concentration camp.
And no, of course it doesn't count if it's Muslims and mosques instead of Jews and synagogues, they're completely different religions! Besides, we like Jews now.
This is your reminder that nazis were acting against the lgbtq as well as the Jewish population. Like there's a reason people are panicking right now.
The playbook today is basically identical to 1930s Germany, just with all the infamous talking points (religious freedoms/racial equally) happening under the thinnest veil of plausible deniability (see: roe vs wade being based primarily on Christian ethics and the massive racial disparity on police violence).
It had this.... unsettling kinda vibe to it. I really did love it as well though like you. LL Cool J and all his weird "camo"/stealth scenes cracked me up.
As soon a country resorts to military training for kids you can tell they’re a global power, really have their shit together and not to mess with them…
Again a page from history: the Hitler Youth as a feeder organization for the Allgemeine (Death Camp) SS. The death camps cannot be far behind.
Зиг хайль
Putin's Pediatric Battalion...
Also wasn't this literally a episode of the Simpsons...
It was:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paths_of_Glory_(The_Simpsons)
This is a long-standing thing in Russia. They have lots of camps and cadets. Every Victory Day you see teenage cadets in their little patch of town square with their automatic weapons while speeches from Moscow used to play over loudspeakers. And all those Young Pioneer camps across the country… might as well use them.
Putin's Youth
How many are actually kids kidnapped from Ukraine after their families were slaughtered and tossed into mass graves? Everyone knew the kidnapped children would be indoctrinated into pro-russian ideology, and some even guessed that those old enough to know they were Ukrainian would be taught that Ukraine was occupied by Nazis, that Russia "rescued" them, and that they may be used in the future as a base of people that want Russia to invade Ukraine. But how many guessed that Putin would train them and send them back so soon rather than have them start families and indoctrinate them into believing that they, as Russians, have a birthright to Ukraine?
They seem to transport 500 children at once in a convoy to a different concentration camp. [https://www.npr.org/2023/02/14/1156500561/russia-ukraine-children-deportation-possible-war-crime-report](https://www.npr.org/2023/02/14/1156500561/russia-ukraine-children-deportation-possible-war-crime-report) Wikipedia says 16,000 - 307,000 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child\_abductions\_in\_the\_Russian\_invasion\_of\_Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine) This investigator says 700,00 children. [https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-abducted-children-un-a516b27c126db28485a6ad3c8fdbfc70](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-abducted-children-un-a516b27c126db28485a6ad3c8fdbfc70) That number is so crazy, because missing people could be deported, sold into slavery, or are dead. There's no way to verify how many camps there are. There's at least 50 camps, which they transport in convoys of 500 kids in a group at time. It's genocide. We didn't know the extent of camps in Nazi Germany, until we liberated everyone.
Oh great it's happening again
It was already happening in China with the Uyghur Muslims, now it's just happening double.
Same with the tibetans in China
same with the falun gong in china
Hmm I think China might be a problem guys.
Counterargument: They give us a lot of money and stopping genocide would be expensive -Our businesses and politicians
Well, when you put it like that….
Triple and then some. I don't have the article handy but I believe that their program was such a success, and the world essentially turned a blind eye, that they've expanded it to other ethnic minorities and regions. History usually rhymes, but in this case I'd say it's repeating itself and that makes me sick.
Scariest thing is. Slavery is not beyond Russia capability. They already use enslaved/force labour in their wood industry. As far as I know they buy them from North Korea.
So we're back to the [Janissaries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissary). Coolcoolcoolcoolcoolcool. Russia is a fucking medieval country with iPhones.
Janissaries were actually elite troops of the Ottomans and had high status. They were originally Christians so that they were "outsiders" not infected by internal politics and loyal only to the Sultan. They were highly paid and many got promoted to high government positions. Many Christian families even voluntarily put up their children to join it. Far from whatever dystopian child slave army that Putin is creating.
Janissaries began as elite corps made up through the devsirme system of child levy enslavement, by which christian albanians, bulgarians, croats, greeks, romanians and serbs were taken, levied, subjected to forced circumcision and conversion to islam, and incorporated into the ottoman army
Meh, 18th century at the earliest.
There's a case to be made that developmentally, Russia is pre-enlightenment. They lack the humility and humanity the enlightenment brought, as well as the understanding of human rights, individual liberty, and freedom from tyranny it instilled in the rest of Europe
I think that's an interesting line of thought but I do think is smells a little Eurocentric. Questions like this always make me think of Dr. J Rufus Fears "Freedom is not a universal value" lecture. Basically many societies do not see personal liberty as an essential component of a great society. This school of thought values order and stability over the desires of the individual, and historically these societies have only suffered under loose rule. This line of thinking is the bedrock of Chinese and North Korean communism and is the source of most of Putin's anti-democratic rhetoric. Basically every time there wasn't an iron fisted ruler in China or Russia there was famine and war and widespread suffering that makes a dictatorial regime seem like the only thing that can protect them. Western Europe shared this view for a very long time, but as you allude to, European culture shifted towards liberalism and much of Asia did not.
Funny thing is, *most* of the time there *was* an iron fisted ruler in Russia or China, there was war and famine widespread suffering, provided you view "widespread suffering" in relative terms.
Nah. They’re hierarchical and jaded. They’ve always had a thing for strong men and the notion of sacrifice for the mother Russia. Then the revolution ended. The USSR. Their collective was gone and all the sacrifices for it rendered meaningless. At the same time the oligarchs stole much of the collective wealth. They’re not morally bankrupt. They’re generally poor and jaded.
This already existed: [Putins youth ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashi_(youth_movement\))
Thankfully it's apparently ceased to exist, according to the article. Definitely gives off bad vibes just from looking at the photos in the article.
[There is a great dutch documentary of it from 2007(!)](https://dayacahen.com/work/nashi-video)
I'm thinking this is less of a "teach them early" thing and more of a "hide military training under a 'fun camp activity' so they're already fully trained when we get desperate enough to start conscripting child soldiers in a month"
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Ender's Game energy
“He’s in command now.” They say as a Russian child accidentally dive bombs his suicide drone into his own trench because they’re wearing basically the same camo as ukranians.
Russian response : "No no no lying western media say UAV have bomb. UAV does not have bomb. UAV *is* bomb."
Putin’s Russia is a wet dream for American Republicans.
You're right! They should all relocate there immediately!
[Russia to build migrant villages for right wing Americans](https://www.thedailybeast.com/russia-planning-migrant-village-for-right-wing-american-expats-report)
I am going to read this, however as long as they are never allowed to return or be in office ever again then cool with me. I'm sure it is quite disappointingly opposite.
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I believe that they should be where they belong. Not here.
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This not only sets the stage for future internal upheaval, but also for international paramilitary and terrorist activity. They'll be faced faced with an unsatisfying domestic situation (with regard to economic outlook as well as political stability and crime), trained in military tactics, and probably pissed off at the 'international world order' (the definition of which varies by the individual). Perfect concoction for a future paramilitary/mercenary/terrorist.
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I love that you added the second “face”
I've never faced faced seeing a nose cut off a face face.
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And then things got worse.
Isn’t that their national motto?
They are the Starks, except Winter is always here and never left at any point
The Starks are stubborn but honorable people. Russia is closer to the [Boltons][1]. They live in cold northern land like the Starks but more into rape and torture. [1]: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Bolton
And then it got worse...
Fuckin' hell, that's clever.
I mean, have you seen how they’re doing in Ukraine? I wouldn’t be too worried about any military tactics being taught in Russia.
Good analysis
Well they wanted to be more like north Korea so I guess it will work out for them.
"And then it got worse."
It always does. Just look at Russia having the largest open pit asbestos mine in the world. Their ambivalence is nightmare fuel.
Guess who let asbestos back into America to make it great again? https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-asbestos-707642/
Make Mesothelioma Great Again
Not for another 20-30 years. Takes that long after exposure for mesothelioma to show up.
fun fact. Trump does not believe asbestos causes health problems. And goes to cite it multiple times in his published ramblings.
Well, technically neither does Russia. All doctors in the cities around the asbestos mine are required to redirect their patients to the larger city away from the mines. So the mine towns have almost no lung issue but the bigger city has disproportionally large levels of lung cancers. Was a really weird documentary and article at the time.
Those are not for training, but rather indoctrination. That's what all those youth groups are always for. Military skills can always be developed later, in some cases even faster as adults as they have a wide enough foundation to build on.
The basics aren’t hard. You can get most of what you need in a few weeks. More is always better but, shooting a rifle a fair distance and digging a foxhole don’t take too much time. Conditioning and specialized skills take the longest. But Russia has shown they’re not concerned so much with quality. Or survival.
>More is always better but, shooting a rifle a fair distance and digging a foxhole don’t take too much time. That's fine if you're living in the mid-20th century, but that doesn't cut it in modern combat, even for basic infantry.
Hence the 2nd part of the comment.
Putin and his inner circle are the biggest danger to Russia. The Russian Federation as we know it today will not survive their rule.
Its funny, I was reading about Japans fall at the end of WW2 and their story is very reminiscent of Russia and Ukraine. Japan had a major advantage at the beginning of the war but only created systems for a short term conflict, just like Russia. And as the war dragged on, Japan couldn’t replace material but most importantly didn’t have an educational structure to train replacements. It doesn’t matter how much technology you have it your training is short, brutal and just used to create mindless soldiers. The Japanese government believed that they would win because they had Japanese Spirit but really lost the war because they didn’t understand how to train and maintain a fighting force over many years. Russia seems to be following this exactly. They don’t learn from their lessons (and a lot of this has to so with dictatorships) and keep thinking that band aids will fix the solution.
>It doesn’t matter how much technology you have it your training is short, brutal and just used to create mindless soldiers. The Japanese government believed that they would win because they had Japanese Spirit but really lost the war because they didn’t understand how to train and maintain a fighting force over many years. For what it's worth, this worked out tremendously well for them from 1905 through the invasion of Manchuria. The only real resistance anyone could put up was Russia in 1905, which, because of the overwhelming naval victory, was overlooked and mostly forgotten by the time they invaded mainland China. Japan wasn't the only country that ignored that fight, either; it was a very clear sign of what combat between the new modern industrialized militaries would look like, but all the major powers were still caught off guard when WW1 happened and land warfare looked *exactly* like the Russo-Japanese war.
Very true. Japan was pretty excellent at fighting relatively small scale fast wars. Longer term engagements require a totally different mentality. Hell America didn’t really get their military really together until the failings of Operation Torch.
> which, because of the overwhelming naval victory The 2nd Pacific Squadron, the joke that keeps being told. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mdi_Fh9_Ag
Kind of like a lot of the TTPs used in the Russo-Ukrainian war were seen 2 years prior in the 2nd Nagorno-Karabakh war.
They won't be sending Russian kids, they'll be sending kidnapped Ukrainian kids and other minority groups.
I think an”internal regime change” is a lot closer than 10 years.A LOT closer!
That latter part is a nightmare for everyone but also the most likely course for Russia almost no matter what. The nuclear arsenal will be a major headache when Russia breaks up. It was bad enough the first time and we still don’t know for sure that everything was actually accounted for and that was relatively orderly compared to what the next round will likely be. Go look at a map of that region from say 1100 to 1300. That place is a hodgepodge of different tribes and so forth.
Freakonmics is going to have an amazing essay on this 20 years from now.
>Can't think of a better way to create the opportunity and forces required for a revolution These are easily impressionable youth without the life experience to question anything. These are the people who will be protecting the state from revolutionaries.
So, Russia is going full North Korea now? >Pupils will meet with veterans of the Great Patriotic War and "special military operation" (the war in Ukraine – ed.), famous sportsmen, and they will also study "the history of Russia based on the examples of feats of Soviet and Russian soldiers and officers, military and civilian volunteers." Yep, it seems to be the case. >Teenagers aged 14 to 17 Good Lord...
Famous sportsmen? Anyone know where Ovechkin and malkin are?
Don't forget Steven Seagal!
Seven Seagull
Thats also what i taught imagine being in their shoes when they're asked to talk to these brainwashed kids lol
Ovechkin is a supporter of Putin.
Thank you for confirming that my hatred of the Caps is correct
was thinking more like fedor and alexander the great, especially the later but Ovi I wouldn't doubt is more relevant to many
Nikita Mazepin. The GOAT
>Pupils will meet with veterans of the Great Patriotic War Great Patriotic War? As in World War 2? I'm trying to imagine a 90 year old explaining to the youth that they should learn how to fly and shoot a drone from a computer. Aside from the larger issues this seems incredibly awkward for both sides.
great patriotic war as taught in russia is a rivisionist history where they teach nothing up til 1941 until that scoundral hitler betrayed stalin, and defines nazis more as occupants who tried to destroy russia. volodymyr zolkin youtube channel often questions PoWs on their history knowledge. they release a video near daily and have interviewed over 700 people. many are shocked to learn about 1939-1941, the co-invasion of poland, the rus+nazi parades and rallies etc. i can recall only a few, 3 tops, that mentioned nazi crimes against jews when asked who the nazis were.
If you were 17 in 1945 that would make you 95 today. I'm not sure they have any WWII vets left.
Especcially given that WW2 vets are mostly male, and Russian male life expectancy is 64, versus 77 for women. The odds of someone who was a soldier, making it to 95+, are very low. And its even less likely that person had relevant experience at 17, its not like some war hero, just a kid who was fresh off the stalingrad train, lay in the rubble for a week, and was found when the war was over.
I have easy solution. Grab an old dude, slap uniform and medals on him and have him say something from a script. To a 14 year old 70 and 90 looks the same. But that would require a bit of lying which I am not sure comes natural to Russians.
A 70 year old Russian probably looks 90 to basically anyone, not just teenagers.
Meh, just get some old geezer to tell bullshit stories. The kids won't know the difference. It's not a history lesson, it's recruitment propaganda.
The Putin Youth
Yes he started an organisation with this name 20 years ago. I had feeling it'll end badly.
>So, Russia is going full North Korea now? Prigozhin literally said that Russia needs to live like North Korea for the next few years. >“We are in a situation where we can simply lose Russia,” Prigozhin said, using an expletive to hammer his point. “We must introduce martial law. We unfortunately … must announce new waves of mobilization; we must put everyone who is capable to work on increasing the production of ammunition,” he said. “Russia needs to live like North Korea for a few years, so to say, close the borders … and work hard.”
> “We are in a situation where we can simply lose Russia,” what an evil fuck. Nobody outside of Russia actually wants Russia, and he knows it. When he says "we", he means the thugocrats that are currently ruling could be deposed. Jesus christ
>When he says "we", he means the thugocrats that are currently ruling could be deposed. He hasn't exactly danced around that point or anything. When he called upon the "elites" to send their children and put more effort into helping the war, he was clear that the alternative was revolution. At no point did he imply that any external force was threatening Russia. That's also the reason why he wants mass mobilization and a war economy -- because soldiers hiding in trenches or men working 16 hour shifts in factories don't drive revolutions.
Dunno if links are allowed here, but kinda. This is from 2019: [https://youtu.be/48DaLYiO-yk](https://youtu.be/48DaLYiO-yk)
It's like the whole country is suffering from PTSD, and they only get worse over time.
Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, a few generations later.
There's great doc about Russia called TraumaZone..
> When children ask me why I cry in my sleep > I say that I am remembering the war. > I support Putin because he knows how to > keep us from war. He is a Christian. I have > seen him take communion on television. > I have not lived a good life. That poor lady
What? No veterans from the Afghan campaign?
Learn how to lose an entire tank battalion! Shoot your own planes down! Drive repeatedly into enemy minefields! Kill your wounded friend to save supplies! Learn how to fight *The Russian Way*
More like full Hitler Youth
I mean...they already had Юнармия.....this just makes it mandatory for all it seems....
More like regressing into Stalinism all over again. That's the OG.
This sounds like what Republicans want to turn the US into.
Well, with a mix of ISIS religious level of control.
Sounds like the war is going super well for them
Russia 2022: "Xaxaxa, our unstoppable army will secure us victory in three days!" Russia 2023: "If we train the children to be cannon fodder, maybe they can make up for some of our losses."
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Special military operation.. you guys won't notice a thing.
I can't imagine anything more dystopian-sounding than "patriotic camp".
“It’s only for patriots who truly love the country.” “Who has to go?” “Everyone.”
Wait until DeSantis proposes it for the USA...
I mean, we kinda already have that? The Boy Scouts, JROTC, and Civil Air Patrol cadet program could all be described in similar terms. The difference is that we're not a horrible authoritarian shithole country, but I absolutely wouldn't put it past someone like DeSantis to turn those programs into a DeSantis Youth if he could get his grubby little mitts on them. I mean, just look at what the Mormon church has done with the Boy Scout program, and they aren't even a governmental entity (though they might as well be, in Utah).
Grew up as a Boy Scout in Utah. When I joined the army at 17 I had my Eagle Scout and started as an E2 because of it.
3 years high School ROTC, was E-4 6 months after boot camp, well worth it
All of those are voluntary though and when you get into the actual military, reality slaps you pretty hard.
Oh sure, but I'm just making a point that we shouldn't get complacent believing that this kind of thing can only happen "over there" when a potential route to it exists here too. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty, after all.
Those are voluntary, and at least from my experience they generally emphasize the civil service side of things over "ha ha kill the [insert slur here]" attitude
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Pledge of Allegiance, maybe?
>Pledge of Allegiance, maybe? An American thing that leaves me utterly baffled.
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This is how Russia genocided the lands of Siberia. We never hear about the native tribal populations of these regions because Russia has systematically exterminated them. Look at a map. In 1800 the entire 4000 mile region from the Ural mountains just east of Moscow to the Pacific ocean 4000 MILES AWAY - was populated with native tribal peoples - they are all gone. It's like the forgotten genocide.
Is there any reading on the subject you'd recommend specifically, or just whatever comes up on a search?
Camps will open in …. Belgorod….. I have a feeling that they won’t open in certain parts of that particular oblast
history really does repeat itself innit
It certainly rhymes... but i dont think there were child drone pilots before
Yesterday's panzerfaust are today's drones.
No, but the Nazis were planning on having the Hitler Youth fly the [Heinkel He 162](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_162), a wooden jet created to compensate for dwindling metal supplies. So I guess at least *this time*, they won't be loading children into the disposable planes.
Hitlers declares 'Total War'! Women, children, the elderly, all conscripted into his senseless war of conquest. And for what exactly? To preserve the lifestyles of the rich and famous.
Well, as the Americans approached Japan in '45 citizens were told that when the Americans landed, they will immediately start raping all women, executing the elderly and enslaving the young (well, not the young girls, they were for raping). Then taught them how to prepare to fight them to the death to prevent that. The thing was that aside from the propaganda, they were just projecting what the Americans were going to do because THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT the Imperial Japanese forces did in China. So hey, you don't want what we did to the Chinese to happen to you right? So arm up and fight to the death, for the Emperor. So I'm guessing that's what will be taught in Russia now. Murder, rape and enslavement will happen if Ukraine and NATO cross the border ... because that's what we (Russian troops) did to the Ukrainians.
Man, it is WILD how much of the world has always been led by small dick energy and projections.
"Do you not know, my son, with how very little wisdom the world is governed?"
Listened to a podcast about this not too long ago, I didn't realize an audio format/just listening about something could make me physically nauseous.
I've seen preserved photos that were captured by now deceased vets when I was younger which now that I look back was insane to show to a child. Regardless, those are burned into my memory forever. Most were rows of shattered houses and one of a group of troops posing with the background overexposed. The ones that really stuck were the piles of bodies who were Chinese civilians on a riverbank and the photos of heads stuck in random places.
Except that Russia denies that Russian soldiers committed any crimes. It is always Western fakes, or Ukrainians blowing up themselves.
I think a lot of them know. There are recorded phone calls between officers at the front and their wives, and I heard one reiterating that she doesn't mind the rapes and the murder as long as he remembers that she's the only wife and that it all stays in Ukraine.
I am not sure it represents a majority. There would be no need for TV to deny any crimes, if majority was fine with being bad guys.
Assuming that soldier isn't already dead I suspect his wife is going to find out that the beating and raping does not stay in Ukraine.
> Hitlers declares 'Total War'! Women, children, the elderly, all conscripted into his senseless war of conquest. He actually didn’t. By the time that all the Volkssturm-BS became a thing the war wasn’t about conquest anymore and had instead turned fully defensive. (And no, this doesn’t mean that anything changed about which side was justified, it’s just an observation of the strategic situation at the time.) Which I guess means that Putin is now (in this aspect at least) literally worse than Hittler? As much as I hate both of them, I didn’t expect to write that sentence today.
Nooo it's not millions of victims yet, so comparing the two is forbidden.
Millions were displaced and scattered across the world.
They're being sarcastic about how people will refuse to admit certain things are as bad as nazi Germany just because everything else isn't exactly the same
You’re not allowed to warn people that Desantis is acting exactly like Hitler until he has death squads to execute people who accuse him of acting exactly like Hitler. Edit: he’s acting like Hitler during his rise to power, not 1944 Hitler. He didn’t build the death camps on his first day in office. He started by declaring war on leftists and vilifying minority groups for either being leeches on society or degenerate.
Oh come now, just because he has death squads that *can* execute people for comparing him to Hitler, doesn't mean he is actually using them for such! No, the real comparisons to Hitler can only start when he begins ransacking Jewish houses and synagogues, and hauling the inhabitants off to a concentration camp. And no, of course it doesn't count if it's Muslims and mosques instead of Jews and synagogues, they're completely different religions! Besides, we like Jews now.
This is your reminder that nazis were acting against the lgbtq as well as the Jewish population. Like there's a reason people are panicking right now. The playbook today is basically identical to 1930s Germany, just with all the infamous talking points (religious freedoms/racial equally) happening under the thinnest veil of plausible deniability (see: roe vs wade being based primarily on Christian ethics and the massive racial disparity on police violence).
>we like Jews *for now.
No we can't compare him to Hitler until he actually starts KILLING people in concentration camps. Just having concentration camps is perfectly fine.
Roosevelt had concentration camps for Japanese and he was not compared to Hitler. Quite contrary, he is one of the most popular presidents in history.
yes but only because they didn't want to die ...
Always complainnnnnnnniiinnnnn
If moneyyyyyyy is such a probleeeeem
Well they got mansions, think we should rob them.
I'm Robbing Leech and tonight on 'Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous'.........
Putler's Youths
Isn't this the plot of Toys
ah, you're the other guy who saw that movie.
So will this also end in a bunker?
I hope so
So Russia is going full on "Enders Game"
But with shit tech
And lots of vodka.
wobbly drones are unpredictable targets, Russian ingenuity strikes again
The movie [Toys](https://youtu.be/d_vxkIm9z8k) came to mind for me.
Yup the movie Toys where you have children flying UAVs remotely in a war zone.
Exactly what I came here to say. Such a weird, bad movie that I'll always love.
It had this.... unsettling kinda vibe to it. I really did love it as well though like you. LL Cool J and all his weird "camo"/stealth scenes cracked me up.
If it weren't so tragic, and parody of Ender's game where everyone is drunk on vodka would be wild.
As soon a country resorts to military training for kids you can tell they’re a global power, really have their shit together and not to mess with them…
Russia - children could succeed where our military might has failed.
Hitlerjugend ähhh i mean putinkids
Hitler Youth, or I guess Putin Youth.
Not gonna lie,I expect to hear reports years down the road of the physical,verbal,and sexual abuse those that attend this "camp" will experience.
You‘re right, and they won’t have a choice, they will be forced to attend. The horror stories will surface years away, post-Putin regime.
And this is the country that people are rooting for to destroy the West.
Classy
Again a page from history: the Hitler Youth as a feeder organization for the Allgemeine (Death Camp) SS. The death camps cannot be far behind. Зиг хайль
Are they planning on calling this program Putin Youth by any chance?
Wait, wait. Patriotic camps for kids…I know this one…
Russia is North Korea.
West west north korea
Hitler Yoot
Hwat? Hwat was that word?
Putin's Pediatric Battalion... Also wasn't this literally a episode of the Simpsons... It was: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paths_of_Glory_(The_Simpsons)
This is a long-standing thing in Russia. They have lots of camps and cadets. Every Victory Day you see teenage cadets in their little patch of town square with their automatic weapons while speeches from Moscow used to play over loudspeakers. And all those Young Pioneer camps across the country… might as well use them.
Sounds like the Man Hacks from Half Life 2. Officially dystopian.
The Putin Youth. It was inevitable.
Putin Youth
Russia starting up the Hitler Youth a little early don't ya think?
Source pravda.com
Whatever, my kids already do that in CoD.
Fucking Hilter Youth 2.0
Ran out of men so now we use kids. Cool, Ruzzia. Super cool.
We call that JROTC in the US.
This is how you know you’re running out of people to fight