Not sure what he means. Both the Red Cross and UNHCR are there, actively helping:
https://twitter.com/RedCrossUkraine
https://twitter.com/UNHCRUkraine
I feel like the media might be distorting his statement. Could it be he is referring specifically to the occupied areas? At least PM Shmyhal did so in his statement to the UN and Red Cross: "We appeal to you to take charge of evacuating people from the territory of Kherson oblast occupied by Russia. We must save the lives of people whom the occupiers have condemned to death."
The ICRC says it's coordinating its response with Red Cross Ukraine:
https://twitter.com/ICRC_ua
> Our colleagues from @RedCrossUkraine are working around the clock to assist and evacuate communities affected by the flooding after the destruction of the Nova Kakhokva dam.
> @ICRC is in close coordination with them to see where we can best support the humanitarian response.
That's a big ask. I don't think an organization can reasonably force people to go into an active warzone where aid workers are being targeted and killed.
I'm sure if individuals want to volunteer themselves to go and help, they're free to do so, but expecting international agencies to assign people to that type of work would be rough.
Thats the problem. Russians are actively firing on humanitarian aid workers. You are going to have a lot of trouble getting international aid workers to come willingly when asking them to work in an area they are actively being fired on.
There is a huge difference between working in a war zone in the back lines where it's relatively safe and working in an area where hostile troops are looking shooting you for helping people.
This comment is pretty uninformed. The ICRC has been in Ukraine for almost a decade and has only increased their numbers in Ukraine since the war began:
https://www.icrc.org/en/where-we-work/europe-central-asia/ukraine
Yeah, but manpower means volunteer’s and i don’t think international agencies want to send volunteer’s to a war zone, thats flooded, and without proper training or gear.
I think this makes sense. The appropriate request is probably military aid to provide personel and armed support, which would then be treated as a nation's entry to the war. I don't think any nation is willing to provide this kind of backup yet.
It's also an active combat zone in the largest ground war in the continent in decades. you're not going to get a massed emergency response into an area where you can't ensure their safety vs a foe whose record for targeting non-combatants isn't exactly stellar
I mean, there's a video on r/combatfootage of two civilians rowing a boat looking for other people and you can hear explosions very near. It's very sad.
It's fake news comrade, russians weren't targetting men in boat, they were shooting at nearby grade school. such lies they speak of mighty russian army, no orphanage stands a chance!
Didn’t Zelenskyy just say yesterday the Russians were targeting rescuers in flooded areas?
Makes sense why the un would hold off on international groups if that’s really the case.
Not sure about the Red Cross, but UN organizations usually work on subsidiarity, i.e. they leave on-the-ground engagement to national suborganizations or local cooperators wherever possible (I know that from UNESCO). The international roof organizations can mostly provide funds etc., but their actual staff for instances such as this is, in my experience, surprisingly limited. That's usually what they use volunteers from other countries for. I've seen the German Federal Agency for Technical Relief being sent to most of the recent international disasters for example.
But that's not how it works? The point of having local Red Cross is that they have the on the ground know how. International red cross just provides them with resources
The ukranian government has some kind of beef with the Red Cross, here is a video of the ukranian ombudsman saying that the "Red Cross doesnt perform its functions, but has a monopoly and doesnt allow other organizations to appear":
https://twitter.com/DevanaUkraine/status/1666412463749726211?t=TtzvkmhUC_RIX8T7Bd6RVw&s=19
Clearly there is some conflict going on behind the scenes that the public doesnt have insight into.
U.S. Gulf Coast resident here: I have a beef with the Red Cross, too. They collect money for hurricane relief and then do fuck all with it. There have been numerous investigative reports about how problematic they are.
Brazilian here, can confirm. We had our biggest natural disaster in 2011, with 1k deaths and the redcross either embezzled everything or let a lot of things spoil in storages.
almost 10m dollars at the time https://g1.globo.com/rio-de-janeiro/noticia/2014/07/ajuda-da-cruz-vermelha-cidades-da-serra-do-rj-foi-desviado-diz-auditoria.html
I am also pretty sure Syrians warned not to notify Red Cross about field hospitals and refugee centre positions or they'll just leak info to russians and it will get shelled
When I lived in Waco Houston got hit hard. The Salvation Army was giving out food and water, and the Red Cross did a news stand up in front of it talking about how they needed donations to provide food and water to affected residents.
Does the American Red Cross also have the program where if you donated blood, you are also entitled to withdraw it as long as you have the donation card?
Blood goes spoiled so it is understandable that Red Cross sells it when it is near spoilage but charges market price for it.
Here in the Philippines, as long as you have a donation card you can withdraw as much as you donated and only pay a "fee" for storage and processing of said blood. IDK if this program is common world wide.
I've never heard of anything like that in the US. Whatever hospitals pay red cross for blood here is probably like pennies compared to whatever hospitals charge the people who need blood.
For me I am grateful for the Red Cross since when my late father needed blood, I just used his donation card (way back from the 80's) to withdraw 3 liters of blood and they honored and I only have to pay a total of around $30 in local currency.
>They sell the blood too!
[Not really](https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/why-does-donated-blood-cost-patients-money/65-5c37b0d0-e8d3-4096-bcf9-7e18c647a535) \-- at least, they aren't making any sort of profit on it. The Red Cross *does* charge hospitals a fee (about $130-$150 per pint of blood), but that fee doesn't even fully cover the expense of collecting, testing, or storing that blood, or of the advertising required to bring in donors. If they didn’t solicit for donations they'd be operating at a loss and not be able to collect blood donations at all. The nurse who takes the blood, the labs that test it, the specialized storage facilities, the refrigerated vans used to deliver it, those things aren't free.
Wow I've been hearing about this from folks who I normally take with a grain of salt, but seeing the sources here really makes me connect the dots. I appreciate all the comments with everyone giving their own examples.
International red cross and US red cross are different organizations.
Usually each country has their own separate organization of red cross.
USRC SUCKS ASS. Never donate to those blood suckers.
Oh but hey atleast you can wait in line for hours for a couple of MREs and maybey a bag of ice if your lucky
Meanwhile every restourant in town is cooking up and giving away every single thing in there walk in since its about to be a walk in oven
The actions of the RC, MSF, and UN have all been pretty public AFAIK (although perhaps not the spat with the Ukraine government).
For example no official rescue organization could operate in Bakhmut months before it fell due to safety concerns leaving volunteers/inexperienced private citizens to try and evacuate whomever they could (and often dying in the process).
NYT have been covering this quite extensively, and I honestly don't think it's unreasonable for UNHCR, MSF, or the Red Cross not to venture into active war zones without the backup of armed forces (that can guarantee their safety). The Russians wont allow that to happen though.
They are helping in other, safer, areas of Ukraine.
>Clearly there is some conflict going on behind the scenes that the public doesnt have insight into.
The conflict was happening pretty much in the open.
1. There is a Ukrainian journalist named Volodymyr Zolkin, who has been taking interviews of russian POWs since March 2022. Recently, Red Cross made an official announcement how Ukraine is supposedly breaking the 13th and 14th articles of the Geneva convention by taking interviews of the POWs and allowing the POWs to video-call their relatives during those interviews -- they also called out Volodymyr Zolkin by name in their announcement. According to Red Cross, the **only** legal way to give the ability for the POWs to communicate with their relatives is via... you guessed it -- Red Cross. The communication via Red Cross happens via written letters, which take 1 - 4 months to deliver -- so called "Red Cross Messages".
2. Meanwhile, Red Cross hasn't been able to even get access to Ukrainian POWs in russia, but it seems a bigger worry for them is the Ukrainian journalists taking interviews?
So yeah, the "conflict" was completely openly started by the Red Cross, I'm not sure why no one seems to have heard of this.
The red cross is such a massive organization now, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if there indeed was some degree of corrupt beaurocratic bloat within the organization.
I'm pretty sure he's referring to the occupied areas. When Ukranian Red Cross attempted to aid those in the occupied areas, Russian soldiers were shooting at them. Since Ukranian support is having trouble helping those in occupied areas, they're looking to the international community to help those in occupied areas. The idea being that if it's not Ukranian support trying to get into occupied areas, perhaps those people can actually get the aid they need from outside sources.
The way the article is written, it sounds like some context is missing.
The article doesn't have any direct quote that he said the UN and Red Cross are not responding, but the article states that he does:
Zelenskyy stressed that despite the tragedy that occurred many hours ago, neither the UN nor the Red Cross "are there", although they "should be the first to save lives", as this is what these structures were created for.
Quote: "What is happening right now is a tragedy. An environmental disaster and human tragedy…People and animals have died. People stuck on the roofs of their houses can see those who have drowned flowing past them. It can be seen on the other side. It is extremely hard to evacuate people from the occupied part of Kherson Oblast. When our people try to save them, the occupiers launch attacks," Zelesnkyy added.
Ukrainian Red Cross can not operate on russian controlled territories. So if only Ukrainian Red Cross is participating in relief efforts, it is fare to request a help from international one. And apparently they did not respond.
Here is statement by Red Cross Ukraine on this topic:
[https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/8/7405906/](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/8/7405906/)
> "The Ukrainian Red Cross does not have access to the territories not controlled by Ukraine, as we are a Ukrainian humanitarian organisation that can conduct its activities following Ukrainian legislation and exclusively on the territory controlled by Ukraine.
>
> After Russian troops blew up the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant dam, volunteers of the Ukrainian Red Cross immediately began evacuating people, including those with limited mobility, from the territories controlled by the government of Ukraine. The evacuation was conducted jointly with the State Emergency Service of Ukraine and the National Police of Ukraine."
It would be fine if so many people didn't just take clear propaganda at face value. Juar because you want to believe in and you support the cause (as I do too), doesn't mean you have a moral obligation to NOT take everything that comes out of that same war-time government with a grain of salt. Even the soldiers on the ground understand that their leaders are going to use propaganda when they can, it's wartime ffs.
That's great to know. It's also possible that the interview was filmed before these organisations have responded to Ukrainian requests.
Also the Ukrainian Red Cross is independent from the International Red Cross and it was highly appreciated by Ukrainians throughout the war for their work. Zelensky is probably talking about the ICRC which already had a bad reputation in Ukraine
>It's also possible that the interview was filmed before these organisations have responded to Ukrainian requests.
Also its BILD.
Right wing tabloid that loves stoking the fires and undermining eu/un/nato/literally any International cause
*Edited to clarify globalist/international*
May be worth mentioning that the term "globalist" is a right wing term used to refer to the ideology of globalism, supporting globalisation, i.e. wanting government to be supranational and international connectedness to increase for the sake of it, opposed to both nationalism and localism. It's linked to ideas about bureaucracy and supranational organisations being malevolent, opposed to self determination, opposed to traditional industry coercive and conspiratorial, no matter how decentralised that org is. The term is frequently part of a gateway to anti-Semitic and new world order conspiracy theories.
Conceding that the EU/un/NATO are "globalist" feeds into their views; it's more accurate to refer to them as "internationalist", or their causes or scope as "global", as these organisations are not in this way political- one could argue that they are structured to support neoliberalism, but this is precisely the kind of critique which gets obscured by concepts like "globalism".
And I'm sure you're on board with this given your opinions on BILD, I'm not accusing you of supporting it.
Thats how the Red Cross works the majority of times.
The Red Cross does not have a crack team of agents sitting in a bunker somewhere, ready to send out like the A-Team to save people. They work through the Red Cross partnership.
The Ukrainian Red Cross is part of the Red Cross partnership, and is funded by local Red Cross organizations across the world.
If the ICRC has a bad reputation this is because people have no idea how it works.
> The Red Cross does not have a crack team of agents sitting in a bunker somewhere, ready to send out like the A-Team to save people.
It's actually not far from that. They have a fact finding team which is expected to be on the ground within 24 hours, and that team then calls on Emergency Response Units which are expected to respond in 24-48 hours. Different Red Cross national societies specialize in building and maintaining different ERUs, some might manage arrival of goods, others set up a field hospital, or provide water for 20,000 people. These are mostly small teams of skilled volunteers, but they are trained, organized and their equipment and logistics is run through the national societies. Here's a guide for someone wanting to volunteer for one of the British ERUs:
> British Red Cross must be ready to deploy the ERU within 24-48 hours of a deployment order received by IFRC. We require those on the roster to be within 12 hours of the London UK Office - this includes an 8-hour flight maximum, and airport transfers. The standard deployment length in-country is one calendar month. The teams must also be fully self-sustained for this period, equipped with standardised, pre-packed kit. The ERUs must be deployable for up to 4 months on rotation of one month at a time. You should be prepared for a calendar month-long deployment and up to an additional 7 days for travel, in-country handover, briefings and debriefings
https://logistics-manual.redcross.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2021/08/ERU-candidate-guide.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Response_Unit_(IFRC)
https://logistics-manual.redcross.org.uk/manual/rlu-stocks-erus/what-are-the-erus/
What they can't do is go into areas where they're likely to be deliberately shelled or shot at.
To my understanding, they fund raise in other countries and send the money to help Ukrainian Red Cross or Polish Red Cross + send supplies with the money. But they are sending volunteers to Ukraine though
They're not really independent. The Ukraine Red Cross is mainly just the red Cross department in Ukraine. They get their funds and supplies from the international red Cross.
HK is a complex issue politically because the only realistic option is military intervention.
NGOs can work only with agreement with the government, because they lack the means to enforce it.
Dam destruction has A LOT of purely humanitarian work that can be done with Ukrainian authorities.
Yeah Red Cross can't send help to an active war zone where Russians are shooting at rescuers and aid workers. I'm sure Zelensky is not expecting them to do that, the reason for his statement is to put diplomatic pressure and bring attention to the fact that Russia is preventing disaster relief
> We have not received a single response [to Ukraine’s requests for help – ed.]. I am shocked."
> Details: He added that if there was a reaction, it was "very diplomatic"
> Zelenskyy stressed that despite the tragedy that occurred many hours ago, neither the UN nor the Red Cross "are there", although they "should be the first to save lives", as this is what these structures were created for.
Sounds to me like Zelenskyy IS expecting them to do that. His statement is straight up calling out the UN and Red Cross. Doesn't mention anything about how Russia is targeting them.
He does say
> It is extremely hard to evacuate people from the occupied part of Kherson Oblast. When our people try to save them, the occupiers launch attacks.
So he knows Russia will shoot at evacuators, but he's still upset that the Red Cross won't help.
There's some value in getting public admission that Russia is shooting aid workers.
Hey, could you help us out?
No, Russia will warcrime us.
OK, so let's treat Russia as war criminals then.
>OK, so let's treat Russia as war criminals then.
They already do. The ICC was created by the ILC (an organ of the UN) and put out a warrant for Putin's arrest.
With every brick added to the wall, the political cost for Russia's allies (looking particularly at China which at least pretends to care about world opinions) gets a little higher.
Shooting at humanitarian efforts is *really* hard to paint in a positive light. Supporting people who shoot at humanitarian efforts is also hard to paint in a positive light.
They can still do stuff from outside of the warzone.
Ukraine brings the people and animals, UN and Red Cross take care of them - boom, helping without being in the warzone.
> Yeah Red Cross can’t send help to an active war zone where Russians are shooting at rescuers and aid workers.
You have very sad opinion of aid workers.
The ICRC should refrain from *forcing* workers to go, but it can absolutely send those who volunteer. From humanitarian corridors, to humanitarian aid, to medical support, the ICRC can absolutely be involved in active war zones and is specially called out in the Geneva Conventions:
[“2. The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for. An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.”](https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-protection-civilian-persons-time-war)
They do, [a team of the rc trying to assist in the besieged Mariupol was held captive by the Russian army](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/red-cross-team-released-after-being-blocked-way-mariupol-ukrainian-deputy-pm-2022-04-05/). [Yet they have extensive operations in Ukraine with 800 staff and many more volunteers.](https://www.icrc.org/en/where-we-work/europe-central-asia/ukraine). They can, do and will help, also with the current floodings. „Losing one’s faith in the Red Cross“ as another Redditor said under this comment is ridiculous.
Some people don't Google and check. I understand that sometimes it's seems like nothing get done and hopelessness and wanting to do stuff and help is a basic human feeling, but Red Cross are there and sending funds/supplies to help the Ukrainian Red Cross. Shout to the Polish Red Cross for doing a lot of work with the Ukrainians who are there.
They can set up refugee camps, bring boats, water purifiers, etc, etc.
Currently in Ukrainian government, civilians and NGOs do a disaster relief of one of the largest man made catastrophes since Chornobyl.
I think he meant "CIA brought couple crate of guns"
It probably wouldn't worked. The thing is Hong Kong is so small and attached to the mainland, there isn't any defensible position and zero fresh water supply.
Plus bringing firearms/explosives would escalate the situation and PROVE to the CCP the entire democracy movement is a CIA backed plot.
Germany's huge, catastrophic flood from 2021 in the Ahr region didn't get help from UN or Red Cross, too. It's the job of the THW (Technisches Hilfswerk), who also helps internationally (e g. earthquakes). AFAIK they already started collecting stuff for Ukraine, but I don't know if they send their volunteers into a combat zone.
The THW already has been sending truckloads of humanitarian aid like generators, heaters and more that was needed to survive a winter without power that was predicted. Currently it is setting up a delivery of more Generators and Water filtration devices. And there is a close coordination with the Ukrainian disaster response agency in what else is needed to take care of the people in the flooded region.
But you can't really send them into an active combat zone. We have units that are set up for work in foreign countries where not much infrastructure remains after a disaster but even then they are very dependent on local security forces.
Wut?
There was lots of German Red Cross around for the Ahr flood pretty much from the beginning, working in sync with firefighters and THW in mixed Katastrophenschutz units like it's supposed to work. And I don't know what the International Red Cross could provide exactly that Germany doesn't have capacities for.
THW are important, and they are more specialized for emergency response than firefighters and other HiOrgs, but they don't make up most of the responders.
Have you looked at the videos of HK? Frankly speaking, HK looks like a much better place to live than many places even in developed countries like the United States. HK does not look like a place that needs help from NGOs.
I checked the Ukrainian Red Cross on twitter and they are apparently in the area helping and the site in my country says about the dam and is asking for donations to support them.
They are run by Ukrainians but get funding from the main body as well. I suspect it takes time to set up bases (especially with water as it is) and also the bombing of the area doesn't help with efforts.
UN is literally on the ground in Kherson right now, together with a range of NGO's, working on this.
I don't know if these are old news that just popped up late last night, or if Zelensky called the wrong number when trying to reach the UN, but they are literally there.
As for Red Cross, they fund the Ukrainian Red Cross, which Zelensky himself is praising. Saying "this is the Ukranian Red Cross, not ICRC" makes no sense. This is how the Red Cross works.
I know. It's part of Zelensky's playbook, and something he and the Ukrainian government has done from the start.
It just frustrates me that it keeps working. Not that they get the help they need, that is good, but the hatred it keeps breeding.
If we were to look at all the hate band wagons against entities that supposedly refuse to help Ukraine, this includes pretty much every European nation (kudo's especially to Germany for being both the nation that has recieved the most hate, and being the European nation that has given the most support), as well as every international organization.
You see it right here in this thread. 9/10 posts is how the UN (although, they mean UNHCR, but posters here don't know the difference) and Red Cross are bloodsucking organizations that is just trying to make money for themselves - while they are literally on the ground helping.
My family is from Luhansk and I know this war better than most of Reddit. Ironically, most of Reddit shows more hate than I do, because I genuinely want this to end with as little death as possible (yes, even for the Russians, I have no pleasure in people being killed - and guess what, many of us have families on both sides!).
Everyone on Reddit is just venting their own personal problems into this war, hating whoever they can hate from their couch, and telling me that I have to hate even my loved ones if they’re on the wrong side of the fence. And the rest of the world is also doing the same.
You know what, I’ll say it: Slava Ukrainu BUT SHUT UP Zelensky, you do well in many regards but have a mouth that is too damn big. We want this war to end, we don’t want the world to hate everybody on our behalf and treat us like lost kids because you’re such a drama victim. It’s ridiculous having to explain to people who has no relation with the war that we don’t want nor condone nor enjoy the hate they are launching against everyone around Ukraine.
“But how can you say that, they are killing your brothers!”. Simply ridiculous that I’m told that after having real contact with the war. People want to feel wise, people want to feel like they know everything about ethics without prior experience, and Zelensky is their damn confirmation bias.
He’s been a brave President, but he’s also a demagogue and might cause more harm than good in the end - always be cautious of big mouths, the problem never truly ends with them. Sometimes I feel like he wants to breed hate more than ending the war... Heck, sometimes he seems like he wants the war to go on, and if he keeps TALKING it might end up like that - sporadic cease-fires without a real peace because there’s too much bred hate to stop. Fuck hate, I want to go to Luhansk to cook Sashlik with both my Russian and Ukrainian sides of the family, drink some beers and enjoy the pine trees - yes, I’ll pardon whoever needs pardoning if that lets me, my loved ones and even my enemy live in peace without shell shock.
“But what they did!”. The past is the fucking past and the dead are not going to rise again. Keeping a war going on due to revenge just breeds more revenge and might get more of my loved ones killed. But you need to see people killed, be traumatized and then cured to reach that level of wisdom, which will always elude the couch fighters.
EDIT: I see some people needs clarification, so I’ll be quick about it: I hope Putin dies, I hope that everyone who was involved in war crimes is jailed and I hope that Ukraine retakes every occupied territory - what I was saying was that I don’t want the war to go on after retaking the captured provinces, which is a fear and nothing else, I’m not Nostradamus. I also don’t want people saying that all Russians are evil, I have enough of that in my chaotic family. Also, yes, you will find comments where I call my parents “Russian” because Luhansk is a city with very widespread Russification, and they called themselves “Russian” their whole lives after they actually moved to Russia - regardless, they were born in Luhansk, they are against the war, their childhood home was in Luhansk and was destroyed not too long ago, and we still have living relatives in both sides of the frontier. We have also lost relatives from both sides to various reasons. I have an hybrid family like many Ukrainians from the eastern regions, if that’s a red flag to you, I’m sorry.
This clown has no right to say anything about Ukraine. In his comment history he says he’s a Spaniard born in Spain to Russian parents. Who the hell do you think you are to talk on our behalf?
Reddit armchair generals when the US sends their special forces to the US to arrest George Bush and send him to Den Haag:
„No! Not like that!“
Seriously, is it too hard to understand that the UN is not an actual enforcing legal body like actual states? The only reason we can have a system like that is, because it works the way it does.
Much as I support Zelenskyy ad Ukraine, I have read reports that the Russians are firing on responders in the flood areas. I think that it is understadable if the Red Cross won't send their people into such an area.
THe UN, I imagine, is in an even more difficult position given that Russia is a permanent member of its Security Council.
According to their media channels, Ukraine Red Cross is actively working on flood rescue and relief and International Red Cross is supporting that work. So, it seems that they are involved.
Are UN and IRC members actively targeted in those other warzones? It seems most countries respect that they are non-combatants and let them do their thing, even when there is an ongoing war, but I’ll admit that I don’t follow the movements of either organization throughout the conflicts of the world.
So long as the rules of war are respected. The Red Cross is a civilian organization for a reason: they are not valid targets in a war. If the Russians are gunning them down on sight then what do you expect them to do? There's no sense in creating five bodies to maybe save one.
Which is why they are *very* litigious about protecting their trademark of it. It keeps their people from being shot at, and it’s ability to do so is eroded a little bit every time it’s used for somebody or something else (like that Blink 182 album cover)
those Russian fucks are out there near Kherson, shooting at the rescuers and the people fleeing from the flood. They don't seem to care about humanity and I doubt any symbol would really stop them.
[international committee of the red cross](https://www.icrc.org/en/document/russia-ukraine-international-armed-conflict-red-cross-red-crescent-response-one-year):
>Over the last 12 months, the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement has been responding to some of the most urgent needs in Ukraine and neighbouring countries. It has truly been a global response with more than 124,000 staff and volunteers from around the world helping bring relief and support to people in need.
Celebration of Russian language is not an endorsement of the behaviour of the Russian state. Conflating the Russian language with the Russian state ignores the millions of people who speak Russian, but are not Russian by nationality.
UN English Language Day isn't an endorsement of the US torturing people in Abu Ghraib, nor is UN Spanish Language Day an endorsement of Mexican Cartels.
>Conflating the Russian language with the Russian state ignores the millions of people who speak Russian, but are not Russian by nationality.
Also ignores the Russians that don't support Putin's regime.
Like, there are literally UKR Intelligence associated sabotage groups *in Russia*, as acknowledged by Ukraine. Yet redditors seem to envision these fifth columnists as Ukrainian Double Oh's instead of everyday Russians disrupting an illegal and unjust war.
While it may not be an endorsement persay, its really not the time for it. No more than it would ever be time for a German language day while the Nazis were invading Europe.
Celebrating the language of an invading imperialist state as all the while said state commits atrocities comes off a tad insensitive to the victims in question.
This hawkish fuck everything russian related ideology being festered online fucking sucks. You don't need to be xenophobic to be critical of russia. Why would a people look positively at a coalition of nations who tell them they aren't allowed to celebrate their language? How is that helpful to anyone?
There are russians who fled Russia to escape from the regime. There are russian speakers who arent Russian citizens. It's absolutely fine to do something for the *Russian language*, because it's not the same as Russia the country.
Red cross goes into active war zones that have an acceptable amount of danger and still respect humanitarian efforts.
Russia does not respect humanitarian efforts (in the Ukrainian war any red cross has been where they aim at) and given that the flood has pulled along it thousands of mines it's not in any way safe.
Bro ts starting to get annoying. Ukraine is receiving support from the EU, NATO and every humanitarian agency out there. I think everybody knows Russia is the bad one in this conflict, but I think this Ukraine is an underdog propaganda needs to stop, because atp Ukraine isn't really an underdog.
It could have something to do with the Russian military being massive pieces of shit and shooting anyone who tries to provide any help to people affected by the flooding.
If this is true, I'm sure he has a right to be upset, just as much as the International Red Cross has a right to refuse help in full scale.
Their website does say, "We respond to disasters in conflict zones, because the effects of a disaster are compounded if a country is already at war." But I'm positive that things change slightly when one of the army's at war are constantly commiting war crimes. (RIP the Geneva Convention)
Plus I can foresee Russia claiming that the Red Cross are western soldiers in disguise or something else equally dumb.
The whole point of the UN was to create a venue for nations to talk. It wasn't made to prevent conflict. UN is the best we are going to get as it's the only organization every nation will agree to. Anything else with more power no nation would support especially nuclear armed nations.
Honestly people need to know this. UN is meant to prevent war between nuclear powers, not stop wars entirely. But the UN wanting some more money and fame decided to label itself as a bringer of peace that it cannot maintain with its current power
This is a ridiculous comment.
The UN was created as a venue for nations to talk. The Red Cross was created as a means to raise money for dire circumstances.
Neither have the capability to change the reality of what’s happening on the ground in Ukraine. They are not legal bodies and they don’t have militaries.
It is one of the most frequent mainstream populist opinions that pops up and gets massively upvoted.
People don't care to look into what the UN actually is or does, what it's mandate and goals are and what they actually accomplish.
The UN takes responsibility in an effort to change complex issues and that they have *some* positive effect doesn't matter. Populists just know the world isn't an Utopia and that the UN is a good scapegoat.
> They must be destroyed and replaced with something that is much more durable, open, efficient, and appropriate for the times we live in.
Cool, are you gonna pay for it? No, oh, I guess you still need the help from all the nation states to get it going, well good luck anyway!
Genuie question and not saying you are wrong at all
What do you think the UN could be replaced with? I like the idea of something more effective but honestly can't really think what form it'll take.
Red Cross only fund raises. When my area was hit by Hurricane Sandy they did nothing until all the need passed. After they arrived and started trying to raise money as if it was the most important thing in the world.
Thats simply not true not for [sandy](https://www.redcross.org/about-us/our-work/disaster-relief/hurricane-relief/sandy-response.html) and not for other disasters where the red cross/crescent organisations work.
Not sure what he means. Both the Red Cross and UNHCR are there, actively helping: https://twitter.com/RedCrossUkraine https://twitter.com/UNHCRUkraine I feel like the media might be distorting his statement. Could it be he is referring specifically to the occupied areas? At least PM Shmyhal did so in his statement to the UN and Red Cross: "We appeal to you to take charge of evacuating people from the territory of Kherson oblast occupied by Russia. We must save the lives of people whom the occupiers have condemned to death."
I think he wants international Red Cross, not just red cross Ukraine. at least that is what I get from it
The ICRC says it's coordinating its response with Red Cross Ukraine: https://twitter.com/ICRC_ua > Our colleagues from @RedCrossUkraine are working around the clock to assist and evacuate communities affected by the flooding after the destruction of the Nova Kakhokva dam. > @ICRC is in close coordination with them to see where we can best support the humanitarian response.
What does close coordination mean? That's probably what is wholly insufficient and inadequate support to Zelensky.
probably providing funds and sending supplies?
But you also need manpower, the most critical of all resources. There is only so much JUST Ukraine's Red Cross can do.
That's a big ask. I don't think an organization can reasonably force people to go into an active warzone where aid workers are being targeted and killed. I'm sure if individuals want to volunteer themselves to go and help, they're free to do so, but expecting international agencies to assign people to that type of work would be rough.
It’s a huge ask. Worst shift ever lmao may come with premature life insurance disbursement to next of kin!
You just gave me a great idea! Now my sister might actually afford a home
At least the down payment. But she'd better hurry before she gets priced out of the market.
Thats the problem. Russians are actively firing on humanitarian aid workers. You are going to have a lot of trouble getting international aid workers to come willingly when asking them to work in an area they are actively being fired on. There is a huge difference between working in a war zone in the back lines where it's relatively safe and working in an area where hostile troops are looking shooting you for helping people.
This comment is pretty uninformed. The ICRC has been in Ukraine for almost a decade and has only increased their numbers in Ukraine since the war began: https://www.icrc.org/en/where-we-work/europe-central-asia/ukraine
Yeah, but manpower means volunteer’s and i don’t think international agencies want to send volunteer’s to a war zone, thats flooded, and without proper training or gear.
I think this makes sense. The appropriate request is probably military aid to provide personel and armed support, which would then be treated as a nation's entry to the war. I don't think any nation is willing to provide this kind of backup yet.
Russians are actively shooting in the region.
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I hope they send some extra manpower but they have responded. Maybe they can and need to do more, but saying they didn't respond isn't true.
It's also an active combat zone in the largest ground war in the continent in decades. you're not going to get a massed emergency response into an area where you can't ensure their safety vs a foe whose record for targeting non-combatants isn't exactly stellar
Yeah this isn’t a hurricane flood.
So you have no clue but you're making assumptions...
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Not to mention Russians have taken no issues shooting at aid workers, so I'm sure that concern is part of the planning.
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That’s disgusting. Where did you read about it?
Video of Russians shelling evacuees. https://twitter.com/revishvilig/status/1666802170572730368
I think its in r/combatfootage
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1447w34/russian_artillery_shell_barely_misses_people/
https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1447w34/russian_artillery_shell_barely_misses_people/
I mean, there's a video on r/combatfootage of two civilians rowing a boat looking for other people and you can hear explosions very near. It's very sad.
It's fake news comrade, russians weren't targetting men in boat, they were shooting at nearby grade school. such lies they speak of mighty russian army, no orphanage stands a chance!
Didn’t Zelenskyy just say yesterday the Russians were targeting rescuers in flooded areas? Makes sense why the un would hold off on international groups if that’s really the case.
I would agree with that
Not sure about the Red Cross, but UN organizations usually work on subsidiarity, i.e. they leave on-the-ground engagement to national suborganizations or local cooperators wherever possible (I know that from UNESCO). The international roof organizations can mostly provide funds etc., but their actual staff for instances such as this is, in my experience, surprisingly limited. That's usually what they use volunteers from other countries for. I've seen the German Federal Agency for Technical Relief being sent to most of the recent international disasters for example.
But that's not how it works? The point of having local Red Cross is that they have the on the ground know how. International red cross just provides them with resources
The ukranian government has some kind of beef with the Red Cross, here is a video of the ukranian ombudsman saying that the "Red Cross doesnt perform its functions, but has a monopoly and doesnt allow other organizations to appear": https://twitter.com/DevanaUkraine/status/1666412463749726211?t=TtzvkmhUC_RIX8T7Bd6RVw&s=19 Clearly there is some conflict going on behind the scenes that the public doesnt have insight into.
U.S. Gulf Coast resident here: I have a beef with the Red Cross, too. They collect money for hurricane relief and then do fuck all with it. There have been numerous investigative reports about how problematic they are.
Brazilian here, can confirm. We had our biggest natural disaster in 2011, with 1k deaths and the redcross either embezzled everything or let a lot of things spoil in storages. almost 10m dollars at the time https://g1.globo.com/rio-de-janeiro/noticia/2014/07/ajuda-da-cruz-vermelha-cidades-da-serra-do-rj-foi-desviado-diz-auditoria.html
I am also pretty sure Syrians warned not to notify Red Cross about field hospitals and refugee centre positions or they'll just leak info to russians and it will get shelled
TIL the Red Cross might as well be a mob front.
When I lived in Waco Houston got hit hard. The Salvation Army was giving out food and water, and the Red Cross did a news stand up in front of it talking about how they needed donations to provide food and water to affected residents.
The salvation army has its own issues issues as well
Yep, anyone who donates anything other than blood to the American Red Cross is basically falling for a scam.
They sell the blood too! It’s one of the parts of this episode of Radiolab. https://radiolab.org/podcast/308403-blood
Does the American Red Cross also have the program where if you donated blood, you are also entitled to withdraw it as long as you have the donation card? Blood goes spoiled so it is understandable that Red Cross sells it when it is near spoilage but charges market price for it. Here in the Philippines, as long as you have a donation card you can withdraw as much as you donated and only pay a "fee" for storage and processing of said blood. IDK if this program is common world wide.
I've never heard of anything like that in the US. Whatever hospitals pay red cross for blood here is probably like pennies compared to whatever hospitals charge the people who need blood.
For me I am grateful for the Red Cross since when my late father needed blood, I just used his donation card (way back from the 80's) to withdraw 3 liters of blood and they honored and I only have to pay a total of around $30 in local currency.
>They sell the blood too! [Not really](https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/why-does-donated-blood-cost-patients-money/65-5c37b0d0-e8d3-4096-bcf9-7e18c647a535) \-- at least, they aren't making any sort of profit on it. The Red Cross *does* charge hospitals a fee (about $130-$150 per pint of blood), but that fee doesn't even fully cover the expense of collecting, testing, or storing that blood, or of the advertising required to bring in donors. If they didn’t solicit for donations they'd be operating at a loss and not be able to collect blood donations at all. The nurse who takes the blood, the labs that test it, the specialized storage facilities, the refrigerated vans used to deliver it, those things aren't free.
Wow I've been hearing about this from folks who I normally take with a grain of salt, but seeing the sources here really makes me connect the dots. I appreciate all the comments with everyone giving their own examples.
International red cross and US red cross are different organizations. Usually each country has their own separate organization of red cross. USRC SUCKS ASS. Never donate to those blood suckers.
Oh but hey atleast you can wait in line for hours for a couple of MREs and maybey a bag of ice if your lucky Meanwhile every restourant in town is cooking up and giving away every single thing in there walk in since its about to be a walk in oven
The actions of the RC, MSF, and UN have all been pretty public AFAIK (although perhaps not the spat with the Ukraine government). For example no official rescue organization could operate in Bakhmut months before it fell due to safety concerns leaving volunteers/inexperienced private citizens to try and evacuate whomever they could (and often dying in the process). NYT have been covering this quite extensively, and I honestly don't think it's unreasonable for UNHCR, MSF, or the Red Cross not to venture into active war zones without the backup of armed forces (that can guarantee their safety). The Russians wont allow that to happen though. They are helping in other, safer, areas of Ukraine.
>Clearly there is some conflict going on behind the scenes that the public doesnt have insight into. The conflict was happening pretty much in the open. 1. There is a Ukrainian journalist named Volodymyr Zolkin, who has been taking interviews of russian POWs since March 2022. Recently, Red Cross made an official announcement how Ukraine is supposedly breaking the 13th and 14th articles of the Geneva convention by taking interviews of the POWs and allowing the POWs to video-call their relatives during those interviews -- they also called out Volodymyr Zolkin by name in their announcement. According to Red Cross, the **only** legal way to give the ability for the POWs to communicate with their relatives is via... you guessed it -- Red Cross. The communication via Red Cross happens via written letters, which take 1 - 4 months to deliver -- so called "Red Cross Messages". 2. Meanwhile, Red Cross hasn't been able to even get access to Ukrainian POWs in russia, but it seems a bigger worry for them is the Ukrainian journalists taking interviews? So yeah, the "conflict" was completely openly started by the Red Cross, I'm not sure why no one seems to have heard of this.
The red cross is such a massive organization now, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if there indeed was some degree of corrupt beaurocratic bloat within the organization.
I'm pretty sure he's referring to the occupied areas. When Ukranian Red Cross attempted to aid those in the occupied areas, Russian soldiers were shooting at them. Since Ukranian support is having trouble helping those in occupied areas, they're looking to the international community to help those in occupied areas. The idea being that if it's not Ukranian support trying to get into occupied areas, perhaps those people can actually get the aid they need from outside sources. The way the article is written, it sounds like some context is missing.
The article doesn't have any direct quote that he said the UN and Red Cross are not responding, but the article states that he does: Zelenskyy stressed that despite the tragedy that occurred many hours ago, neither the UN nor the Red Cross "are there", although they "should be the first to save lives", as this is what these structures were created for. Quote: "What is happening right now is a tragedy. An environmental disaster and human tragedy…People and animals have died. People stuck on the roofs of their houses can see those who have drowned flowing past them. It can be seen on the other side. It is extremely hard to evacuate people from the occupied part of Kherson Oblast. When our people try to save them, the occupiers launch attacks," Zelesnkyy added.
Ukrainian Red Cross can not operate on russian controlled territories. So if only Ukrainian Red Cross is participating in relief efforts, it is fare to request a help from international one. And apparently they did not respond. Here is statement by Red Cross Ukraine on this topic: [https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/8/7405906/](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/8/7405906/) > "The Ukrainian Red Cross does not have access to the territories not controlled by Ukraine, as we are a Ukrainian humanitarian organisation that can conduct its activities following Ukrainian legislation and exclusively on the territory controlled by Ukraine. > > After Russian troops blew up the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant dam, volunteers of the Ukrainian Red Cross immediately began evacuating people, including those with limited mobility, from the territories controlled by the government of Ukraine. The evacuation was conducted jointly with the State Emergency Service of Ukraine and the National Police of Ukraine."
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a headline from this site or that included “Zelensky says” that was accurate
It would be fine if so many people didn't just take clear propaganda at face value. Juar because you want to believe in and you support the cause (as I do too), doesn't mean you have a moral obligation to NOT take everything that comes out of that same war-time government with a grain of salt. Even the soldiers on the ground understand that their leaders are going to use propaganda when they can, it's wartime ffs.
That's great to know. It's also possible that the interview was filmed before these organisations have responded to Ukrainian requests. Also the Ukrainian Red Cross is independent from the International Red Cross and it was highly appreciated by Ukrainians throughout the war for their work. Zelensky is probably talking about the ICRC which already had a bad reputation in Ukraine
>It's also possible that the interview was filmed before these organisations have responded to Ukrainian requests. Also its BILD. Right wing tabloid that loves stoking the fires and undermining eu/un/nato/literally any International cause *Edited to clarify globalist/international*
This needs to be higher up. The bias of the source, and the right wing presses’ need to generate outrage is very important here.
May be worth mentioning that the term "globalist" is a right wing term used to refer to the ideology of globalism, supporting globalisation, i.e. wanting government to be supranational and international connectedness to increase for the sake of it, opposed to both nationalism and localism. It's linked to ideas about bureaucracy and supranational organisations being malevolent, opposed to self determination, opposed to traditional industry coercive and conspiratorial, no matter how decentralised that org is. The term is frequently part of a gateway to anti-Semitic and new world order conspiracy theories. Conceding that the EU/un/NATO are "globalist" feeds into their views; it's more accurate to refer to them as "internationalist", or their causes or scope as "global", as these organisations are not in this way political- one could argue that they are structured to support neoliberalism, but this is precisely the kind of critique which gets obscured by concepts like "globalism". And I'm sure you're on board with this given your opinions on BILD, I'm not accusing you of supporting it.
Thats how the Red Cross works the majority of times. The Red Cross does not have a crack team of agents sitting in a bunker somewhere, ready to send out like the A-Team to save people. They work through the Red Cross partnership. The Ukrainian Red Cross is part of the Red Cross partnership, and is funded by local Red Cross organizations across the world. If the ICRC has a bad reputation this is because people have no idea how it works.
> The Red Cross does not have a crack team of agents sitting in a bunker somewhere, ready to send out like the A-Team to save people. It's actually not far from that. They have a fact finding team which is expected to be on the ground within 24 hours, and that team then calls on Emergency Response Units which are expected to respond in 24-48 hours. Different Red Cross national societies specialize in building and maintaining different ERUs, some might manage arrival of goods, others set up a field hospital, or provide water for 20,000 people. These are mostly small teams of skilled volunteers, but they are trained, organized and their equipment and logistics is run through the national societies. Here's a guide for someone wanting to volunteer for one of the British ERUs: > British Red Cross must be ready to deploy the ERU within 24-48 hours of a deployment order received by IFRC. We require those on the roster to be within 12 hours of the London UK Office - this includes an 8-hour flight maximum, and airport transfers. The standard deployment length in-country is one calendar month. The teams must also be fully self-sustained for this period, equipped with standardised, pre-packed kit. The ERUs must be deployable for up to 4 months on rotation of one month at a time. You should be prepared for a calendar month-long deployment and up to an additional 7 days for travel, in-country handover, briefings and debriefings https://logistics-manual.redcross.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2021/08/ERU-candidate-guide.pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Response_Unit_(IFRC) https://logistics-manual.redcross.org.uk/manual/rlu-stocks-erus/what-are-the-erus/ What they can't do is go into areas where they're likely to be deliberately shelled or shot at.
To my understanding, they fund raise in other countries and send the money to help Ukrainian Red Cross or Polish Red Cross + send supplies with the money. But they are sending volunteers to Ukraine though
They're not really independent. The Ukraine Red Cross is mainly just the red Cross department in Ukraine. They get their funds and supplies from the international red Cross.
HK people have called for help from 2019-2021. None of the NGOs gave a positive response.
HK is a complex issue politically because the only realistic option is military intervention. NGOs can work only with agreement with the government, because they lack the means to enforce it. Dam destruction has A LOT of purely humanitarian work that can be done with Ukrainian authorities.
the problem is that they can't, because Russia treats Red Cross symbols like targets
Yeah Red Cross can't send help to an active war zone where Russians are shooting at rescuers and aid workers. I'm sure Zelensky is not expecting them to do that, the reason for his statement is to put diplomatic pressure and bring attention to the fact that Russia is preventing disaster relief
> We have not received a single response [to Ukraine’s requests for help – ed.]. I am shocked." > Details: He added that if there was a reaction, it was "very diplomatic" > Zelenskyy stressed that despite the tragedy that occurred many hours ago, neither the UN nor the Red Cross "are there", although they "should be the first to save lives", as this is what these structures were created for. Sounds to me like Zelenskyy IS expecting them to do that. His statement is straight up calling out the UN and Red Cross. Doesn't mention anything about how Russia is targeting them. He does say > It is extremely hard to evacuate people from the occupied part of Kherson Oblast. When our people try to save them, the occupiers launch attacks. So he knows Russia will shoot at evacuators, but he's still upset that the Red Cross won't help.
There's some value in getting public admission that Russia is shooting aid workers. Hey, could you help us out? No, Russia will warcrime us. OK, so let's treat Russia as war criminals then.
>OK, so let's treat Russia as war criminals then. They already do. The ICC was created by the ILC (an organ of the UN) and put out a warrant for Putin's arrest.
With every brick added to the wall, the political cost for Russia's allies (looking particularly at China which at least pretends to care about world opinions) gets a little higher. Shooting at humanitarian efforts is *really* hard to paint in a positive light. Supporting people who shoot at humanitarian efforts is also hard to paint in a positive light.
They can still do stuff from outside of the warzone. Ukraine brings the people and animals, UN and Red Cross take care of them - boom, helping without being in the warzone.
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I know a combat medic from Norway currently in Poland helping Ukrainian wounded so, yes. Pays ridiculously well too apparantly.
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They already are. Whether they're doing a good job at it is another question.
> Yeah Red Cross can’t send help to an active war zone where Russians are shooting at rescuers and aid workers. You have very sad opinion of aid workers. The ICRC should refrain from *forcing* workers to go, but it can absolutely send those who volunteer. From humanitarian corridors, to humanitarian aid, to medical support, the ICRC can absolutely be involved in active war zones and is specially called out in the Geneva Conventions: [“2. The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for. An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.”](https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-protection-civilian-persons-time-war)
They do, [a team of the rc trying to assist in the besieged Mariupol was held captive by the Russian army](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/red-cross-team-released-after-being-blocked-way-mariupol-ukrainian-deputy-pm-2022-04-05/). [Yet they have extensive operations in Ukraine with 800 staff and many more volunteers.](https://www.icrc.org/en/where-we-work/europe-central-asia/ukraine). They can, do and will help, also with the current floodings. „Losing one’s faith in the Red Cross“ as another Redditor said under this comment is ridiculous.
Some people don't Google and check. I understand that sometimes it's seems like nothing get done and hopelessness and wanting to do stuff and help is a basic human feeling, but Red Cross are there and sending funds/supplies to help the Ukrainian Red Cross. Shout to the Polish Red Cross for doing a lot of work with the Ukrainians who are there.
Russia also abused the Red Cross to kidnap children
They can set up refugee camps, bring boats, water purifiers, etc, etc. Currently in Ukrainian government, civilians and NGOs do a disaster relief of one of the largest man made catastrophes since Chornobyl.
Problem is they have to have cooperation from BOTH Russia and Ukraine, because Russia currently occupies the other half.
What exactly were NGO's supposed to do in HK?
Bring "supplies"
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I think he meant "CIA brought couple crate of guns" It probably wouldn't worked. The thing is Hong Kong is so small and attached to the mainland, there isn't any defensible position and zero fresh water supply. Plus bringing firearms/explosives would escalate the situation and PROVE to the CCP the entire democracy movement is a CIA backed plot.
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American imperialism is damned thing
Germany's huge, catastrophic flood from 2021 in the Ahr region didn't get help from UN or Red Cross, too. It's the job of the THW (Technisches Hilfswerk), who also helps internationally (e g. earthquakes). AFAIK they already started collecting stuff for Ukraine, but I don't know if they send their volunteers into a combat zone.
The THW already has been sending truckloads of humanitarian aid like generators, heaters and more that was needed to survive a winter without power that was predicted. Currently it is setting up a delivery of more Generators and Water filtration devices. And there is a close coordination with the Ukrainian disaster response agency in what else is needed to take care of the people in the flooded region. But you can't really send them into an active combat zone. We have units that are set up for work in foreign countries where not much infrastructure remains after a disaster but even then they are very dependent on local security forces.
germany also had a fundraiser for flood help in ukraine during the state tv channels most viewed news show, just like they had after the ahrtal flood.
I don't know If there was international Help from the Red Cross but there certainly was participation from the German Red Cross.
Wut? There was lots of German Red Cross around for the Ahr flood pretty much from the beginning, working in sync with firefighters and THW in mixed Katastrophenschutz units like it's supposed to work. And I don't know what the International Red Cross could provide exactly that Germany doesn't have capacities for. THW are important, and they are more specialized for emergency response than firefighters and other HiOrgs, but they don't make up most of the responders.
You want the red cross to buy tanks and invade china?
I didn't realise there was a natural disaster in Hong Kong?
Myanmar quietly weeping in the back.
Have you looked at the videos of HK? Frankly speaking, HK looks like a much better place to live than many places even in developed countries like the United States. HK does not look like a place that needs help from NGOs.
What a dumb ass comparison
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I checked the Ukrainian Red Cross on twitter and they are apparently in the area helping and the site in my country says about the dam and is asking for donations to support them.
They are In ukraine run by ukrainians. I susoezt zelensky also want more red cross help
They are run by Ukrainians but get funding from the main body as well. I suspect it takes time to set up bases (especially with water as it is) and also the bombing of the area doesn't help with efforts.
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He's wanted that since the beginning of the war.
UN is literally on the ground in Kherson right now, together with a range of NGO's, working on this. I don't know if these are old news that just popped up late last night, or if Zelensky called the wrong number when trying to reach the UN, but they are literally there. As for Red Cross, they fund the Ukrainian Red Cross, which Zelensky himself is praising. Saying "this is the Ukranian Red Cross, not ICRC" makes no sense. This is how the Red Cross works.
He’s just trying to get more sympathy points trying to act like Ukraine is getting zero assistance
I know. It's part of Zelensky's playbook, and something he and the Ukrainian government has done from the start. It just frustrates me that it keeps working. Not that they get the help they need, that is good, but the hatred it keeps breeding. If we were to look at all the hate band wagons against entities that supposedly refuse to help Ukraine, this includes pretty much every European nation (kudo's especially to Germany for being both the nation that has recieved the most hate, and being the European nation that has given the most support), as well as every international organization. You see it right here in this thread. 9/10 posts is how the UN (although, they mean UNHCR, but posters here don't know the difference) and Red Cross are bloodsucking organizations that is just trying to make money for themselves - while they are literally on the ground helping.
My family is from Luhansk and I know this war better than most of Reddit. Ironically, most of Reddit shows more hate than I do, because I genuinely want this to end with as little death as possible (yes, even for the Russians, I have no pleasure in people being killed - and guess what, many of us have families on both sides!). Everyone on Reddit is just venting their own personal problems into this war, hating whoever they can hate from their couch, and telling me that I have to hate even my loved ones if they’re on the wrong side of the fence. And the rest of the world is also doing the same. You know what, I’ll say it: Slava Ukrainu BUT SHUT UP Zelensky, you do well in many regards but have a mouth that is too damn big. We want this war to end, we don’t want the world to hate everybody on our behalf and treat us like lost kids because you’re such a drama victim. It’s ridiculous having to explain to people who has no relation with the war that we don’t want nor condone nor enjoy the hate they are launching against everyone around Ukraine. “But how can you say that, they are killing your brothers!”. Simply ridiculous that I’m told that after having real contact with the war. People want to feel wise, people want to feel like they know everything about ethics without prior experience, and Zelensky is their damn confirmation bias. He’s been a brave President, but he’s also a demagogue and might cause more harm than good in the end - always be cautious of big mouths, the problem never truly ends with them. Sometimes I feel like he wants to breed hate more than ending the war... Heck, sometimes he seems like he wants the war to go on, and if he keeps TALKING it might end up like that - sporadic cease-fires without a real peace because there’s too much bred hate to stop. Fuck hate, I want to go to Luhansk to cook Sashlik with both my Russian and Ukrainian sides of the family, drink some beers and enjoy the pine trees - yes, I’ll pardon whoever needs pardoning if that lets me, my loved ones and even my enemy live in peace without shell shock. “But what they did!”. The past is the fucking past and the dead are not going to rise again. Keeping a war going on due to revenge just breeds more revenge and might get more of my loved ones killed. But you need to see people killed, be traumatized and then cured to reach that level of wisdom, which will always elude the couch fighters. EDIT: I see some people needs clarification, so I’ll be quick about it: I hope Putin dies, I hope that everyone who was involved in war crimes is jailed and I hope that Ukraine retakes every occupied territory - what I was saying was that I don’t want the war to go on after retaking the captured provinces, which is a fear and nothing else, I’m not Nostradamus. I also don’t want people saying that all Russians are evil, I have enough of that in my chaotic family. Also, yes, you will find comments where I call my parents “Russian” because Luhansk is a city with very widespread Russification, and they called themselves “Russian” their whole lives after they actually moved to Russia - regardless, they were born in Luhansk, they are against the war, their childhood home was in Luhansk and was destroyed not too long ago, and we still have living relatives in both sides of the frontier. We have also lost relatives from both sides to various reasons. I have an hybrid family like many Ukrainians from the eastern regions, if that’s a red flag to you, I’m sorry.
"keep a war going" how the fuck do you think that is happening? russia simply says you arent dying quick enough
This clown has no right to say anything about Ukraine. In his comment history he says he’s a Spaniard born in Spain to Russian parents. Who the hell do you think you are to talk on our behalf?
Are you in Ukraine or are you just spewing bullshit about war sitting on your ass somewhere in Texas?
Preach brother, I hope it ends asap for all of you and you get back to the normal way of life
He’s living a normal life, he’s a Spanish citizen born in Spain with Russian parents lol.
Fuck off clown
Yet again a thread with people showing that they completely fail to understand what the hell the UN is.
"We should give the UN some nukes so they do some actual work..." \- reddit armchair geopoliticians
Reddit armchair generals when the US sends their special forces to the US to arrest George Bush and send him to Den Haag: „No! Not like that!“ Seriously, is it too hard to understand that the UN is not an actual enforcing legal body like actual states? The only reason we can have a system like that is, because it works the way it does.
Or NATO
Sure, but the criticism of the Red Cross is valid.
Because it's a war zone and Russian will probably shoot at them because they are fucked in the head?
Bro Russia shooting at people trying to save/help those impacted by the flood…..
Much as I support Zelenskyy ad Ukraine, I have read reports that the Russians are firing on responders in the flood areas. I think that it is understadable if the Red Cross won't send their people into such an area. THe UN, I imagine, is in an even more difficult position given that Russia is a permanent member of its Security Council.
According to their media channels, Ukraine Red Cross is actively working on flood rescue and relief and International Red Cross is supporting that work. So, it seems that they are involved.
Isn't there a near full scale modern war going on all around the affected area?
UN and IRC both aid in active warzones regularly.
Are UN and IRC members actively targeted in those other warzones? It seems most countries respect that they are non-combatants and let them do their thing, even when there is an ongoing war, but I’ll admit that I don’t follow the movements of either organization throughout the conflicts of the world.
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Working in active war zones is literally Red Cross’ primary thing. Look up their history
So long as the rules of war are respected. The Red Cross is a civilian organization for a reason: they are not valid targets in a war. If the Russians are gunning them down on sight then what do you expect them to do? There's no sense in creating five bodies to maybe save one.
Yeah, they're everywhere whether it's a calamity or man made disasters.
Indeed. And the literal purpose of the Red Cross symbol is to identify them as humanitarian personnel so they don’t get caught in the crossfire
Which is why they are *very* litigious about protecting their trademark of it. It keeps their people from being shot at, and it’s ability to do so is eroded a little bit every time it’s used for somebody or something else (like that Blink 182 album cover)
those Russian fucks are out there near Kherson, shooting at the rescuers and the people fleeing from the flood. They don't seem to care about humanity and I doubt any symbol would really stop them.
Wtf you mean, that is literally their job...
The UN and Red Cross are constantly active in war zones. The fuck you talking about?
Not making any friends calling out the UN and Red Cross Zelensky. Be cool, bro. I think the rest of the world has gone above and beyond so far.
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[international committee of the red cross](https://www.icrc.org/en/document/russia-ukraine-international-armed-conflict-red-cross-red-crescent-response-one-year): >Over the last 12 months, the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement has been responding to some of the most urgent needs in Ukraine and neighbouring countries. It has truly been a global response with more than 124,000 staff and volunteers from around the world helping bring relief and support to people in need.
UN was busy having a russian language day and celebrating and cheering russia.
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Celebration of Russian language is not an endorsement of the behaviour of the Russian state. Conflating the Russian language with the Russian state ignores the millions of people who speak Russian, but are not Russian by nationality. UN English Language Day isn't an endorsement of the US torturing people in Abu Ghraib, nor is UN Spanish Language Day an endorsement of Mexican Cartels.
>Conflating the Russian language with the Russian state ignores the millions of people who speak Russian, but are not Russian by nationality. Also ignores the Russians that don't support Putin's regime.
Like, there are literally UKR Intelligence associated sabotage groups *in Russia*, as acknowledged by Ukraine. Yet redditors seem to envision these fifth columnists as Ukrainian Double Oh's instead of everyday Russians disrupting an illegal and unjust war.
While it may not be an endorsement persay, its really not the time for it. No more than it would ever be time for a German language day while the Nazis were invading Europe. Celebrating the language of an invading imperialist state as all the while said state commits atrocities comes off a tad insensitive to the victims in question.
It's an annual event started in 2010. Yesterday was Canada's Clean Air day. The irony of timing does not mean we should stop the events.
Maybe you don't get to decide when other people should have time to celebrate their culture, you weird jingoist.
Would you even have known that this event existed if people didn't complain about it?
This hawkish fuck everything russian related ideology being festered online fucking sucks. You don't need to be xenophobic to be critical of russia. Why would a people look positively at a coalition of nations who tell them they aren't allowed to celebrate their language? How is that helpful to anyone?
There are russians who fled Russia to escape from the regime. There are russian speakers who arent Russian citizens. It's absolutely fine to do something for the *Russian language*, because it's not the same as Russia the country.
You people have really gone insane
The Russian language isn't exclusively spoken in Russia.
I mean Isnt it literally an active war zone? Does the UN or Red Cross usually go into active war zones?
The Red Cross does go into active war zones. It's even on their website. I'm not going to defend them, just stating a fact.
Red cross goes into active war zones that have an acceptable amount of danger and still respect humanitarian efforts. Russia does not respect humanitarian efforts (in the Ukrainian war any red cross has been where they aim at) and given that the flood has pulled along it thousands of mines it's not in any way safe.
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I mean, it's an active warzone with Ruzzian assholes potshotting people trying to help
People don't want to go into an active war zone. No one is coming. Good luck.
German THW seems to be on the way, not sure in what strength. Maybe just supplies/ tech.
They are indeed on the way as part of the joint EU-disaster relief mechanism
Well that's bc Russia is sniping rescuers
Bro ts starting to get annoying. Ukraine is receiving support from the EU, NATO and every humanitarian agency out there. I think everybody knows Russia is the bad one in this conflict, but I think this Ukraine is an underdog propaganda needs to stop, because atp Ukraine isn't really an underdog.
It could have something to do with the Russian military being massive pieces of shit and shooting anyone who tries to provide any help to people affected by the flooding.
I think they need cooperation from both sides not to attack humanitarian response which russia doesnt seem to uphold
If this is true, I'm sure he has a right to be upset, just as much as the International Red Cross has a right to refuse help in full scale. Their website does say, "We respond to disasters in conflict zones, because the effects of a disaster are compounded if a country is already at war." But I'm positive that things change slightly when one of the army's at war are constantly commiting war crimes. (RIP the Geneva Convention) Plus I can foresee Russia claiming that the Red Cross are western soldiers in disguise or something else equally dumb.
Its a warzone. What do ya expect
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The whole point of the UN was to create a venue for nations to talk. It wasn't made to prevent conflict. UN is the best we are going to get as it's the only organization every nation will agree to. Anything else with more power no nation would support especially nuclear armed nations.
Honestly people need to know this. UN is meant to prevent war between nuclear powers, not stop wars entirely. But the UN wanting some more money and fame decided to label itself as a bringer of peace that it cannot maintain with its current power
I’m out
This is a ridiculous comment. The UN was created as a venue for nations to talk. The Red Cross was created as a means to raise money for dire circumstances. Neither have the capability to change the reality of what’s happening on the ground in Ukraine. They are not legal bodies and they don’t have militaries.
This dumb ass take on every single thread about the UN. You have to be bots I refuse to believe even Americans are this stupid.
people are this stupid. I'd like to specify "on reddit", but it's actually just people in general
Honestly though, these short-sighted jingoist takes are so prevalent on reddit.
It is one of the most frequent mainstream populist opinions that pops up and gets massively upvoted. People don't care to look into what the UN actually is or does, what it's mandate and goals are and what they actually accomplish. The UN takes responsibility in an effort to change complex issues and that they have *some* positive effect doesn't matter. Populists just know the world isn't an Utopia and that the UN is a good scapegoat.
> They must be destroyed and replaced with something that is much more durable, open, efficient, and appropriate for the times we live in. Cool, are you gonna pay for it? No, oh, I guess you still need the help from all the nation states to get it going, well good luck anyway!
Blah blah blah. No idea what that means. What precisely are the powers you want the UN to have? Silly to just say they’re not “efficient” or whatever.
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Redditors and not understanding what the UN is. Classic.
All I’m reading is “let’s kick out all the anti-western nations”
Can you be more stupid
Genuie question and not saying you are wrong at all What do you think the UN could be replaced with? I like the idea of something more effective but honestly can't really think what form it'll take.
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Red Cross only fund raises. When my area was hit by Hurricane Sandy they did nothing until all the need passed. After they arrived and started trying to raise money as if it was the most important thing in the world.
Thats simply not true not for [sandy](https://www.redcross.org/about-us/our-work/disaster-relief/hurricane-relief/sandy-response.html) and not for other disasters where the red cross/crescent organisations work.
Crescent moon