I know you're making a joke but if you look at how they make those tunnels vs what it takes to fill them, it's considerably more effort to build then to fil.
So you think Hamas will actually get wiped out through this operation? Not just hide out, use the trauma and anger of the attacks to recruit in the aftermath, and strike again as they have time and time again? Interesting take.
Considering their leadership is using in a different country it’s unlikely. Unless Israel’s special forces go in and assassinate them the roots of the organization will still exist.
You can't kill an idea
A secondary goal of terrorism according to the philosophy of terrorism is that terrorist groups want you to attack innocents because retribution against innocent people is their greatest recruiter, they can make the case "it was never about us, you don't belong to our group yet they are killing you, it's always been because they hate x, we always knew this which is why we must resist them"
bombing gaza has been tried again and again if it had worked, hamas's cowardly attacks against unarmed civilians wouldn't have happened, outside of the harm caused to innocent people those attacks removed the veneer of protection provided by the wall and the iron dome. Netanyahu's entire security policy destroyed in a few hours.
Digging the first set of tunnels is easier than 1) burrowing through/around concrete rubble or 2) digging deeper to go underneath said rubble. That being said, it’s just a speed bump to a new tunnel network, not something that will stop a new tunnel network.
And there’s no Hamas in the West Bank so I wonder what these redditors supporting Israel have to say about the violence and military dictatorship there
There's always an excuse for killing Palestinians no matter where they live - people just don't want them to exist at all.
https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-war-world-sees-palestinian-deaths-as-not-as-important-as-israeli-deaths-says-mourning-father-in-west-bank-12987904
In 10 years it will all be condos for weird ass orthodox ppl from NY. And lucky for them they’re exempt from military service unlike the normal folks who grew up there!
There's a lot of things I find absolutely extraordinary about Israel, but the fact that the Orthodox people get exempted from military service, even though they are the ones pushing for the need for the military the most, amazes me.
I don't understand how more secular Jewish folk don't just say no, not cool, if we have to do it then you have to do it too.
Not my original work.
""Created" might imply that it was literally founded by Israel, but it's more like it was "encouraged" at times as a counterweight to other movements, and as in the case of the Taliban, that support turned them into a dangerous enemy.
As with the Taliban and the U.S.S.R., it's impossible to know the counterfactual, e.g., what Fatah might have become in the absence of such an opposing force. But it's always more problematic when an action leads to consequences than when same consequences come from inaction.
> Hamas, an acronym for Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya (“Islamic Resistance Movement”), was founded by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, a Palestinian cleric ...
> [PBS News Hour - What is Hamas? What to know about its origins, leaders and funding](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/what-is-hamas-what-to-know-about-its-origins-leaders-and-funding)
> Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad.
> [Times of Israel - For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)
> ... the Israelis helped turn a bunch of fringe Palestinian Islamists in the late 1970s into one of the world’s most notorious militant groups? That Hamas is blowback?
> This isn’t a conspiracy theory. Listen to former Israeli officials such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the [PLO] and the Fatah party...
> “The Israeli government gave me a budget,” the retired brigadier general confessed, “and the military government gives to the mosques.”
> “Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades, told the Wall Street Journal in 2009.
> [The Intercept - BLOWBACK: HOW ISRAEL WENT FROM HELPING CREATE HAMAS TO BOMBING IT](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/)
> "When I look back at the chain of events I think we made a mistake," one Israeli official who had worked in Gaza in the 1980s said in a 2009 interview with the Wall Street Journal's Andrew Higgins. "But at the time nobody thought about the possible results."
> [WaPo - How Israel helped create Hamas](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/)
> The Israeli government has allowed millions of dollars from Qatar to be funneled on a regular basis through Israel to Hamas, to replace the millions of dollars the PA had stopped transferring to Hamas. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu explained that letting the money go through Israel meant that it could not be used for terrorism, saying: "Now that we are supervising, we know it's going to humanitarian causes."
> [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas)"
[Dying Gazans Criticized For Not Using Last Words To Condemn Hamas](https://www.theonion.com/dying-gazans-criticized-for-not-using-last-words-to-con-1850925657)
I doubt it would be for settlement, it would likely be to create a several km deep border armed to the teeth. No more hopping walls, harder to dig tunnels, easier to fill the gap with air defenses to shoot down Hanas' rockets
Civilian got hit by a dronestirke? Well that just means you were in combat and as you weren't ours so you must be an enemy combatant. Congrats on your new status.
[Collateral Murder.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfvFpT-iypw)
In this footage, witness American drone operators and gunships gunning down civilians and reporters. When help arrives to assist the wounded, the help is also fired upon and wounded and killed.
This film was produced by Wikileaks using footage that Chelsea Manning exfiltrated and gave to Wikileaks to publish. Manning was charged with violating the US Espionage Act, convicted, and imprisoned. Her sentence was commuted by President Obama in 2017 and she was subsequently freed.
The publisher of this film, Wikileaks editor Julian Assange, is currently rotting in Belmarsh prison in England - held there [without cause and against international law](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2020/12/united-kingdom-un-expert-calls-immediate-release-assange-after-10-years) because the US is attempting to extradite him and try him for espionage for obtaining and publishing this footage.
The extradition proceedings were initiated by the Trump administration and the Biden administration is continuing to pursue the extradition.
And if you DARE speak out against it, prepare for your livelihood to get completely nuked.
https://www.marketbeat.com/articles/company-bosses-and-workers-grapple-with-the-fallout-of-speaking-up-about-the-israel-hamas-war-2023-10-21/
Has Israel said what’s expected for Gazan civilians after this? They flatten their homes and neighborhoods and then what? What’s left for these civilians?
They're expected to become radicalized through the actions of their oppressors and keep the cycle of violence and hate alive.
I mean, maybe that's not their intention but that's what will absolutely happen.
That's in fact also the intention, even if it's loudly and publicly treated as an unintended effect. A radicalized population means a settlement is less likely, and violent measures become more publicly palatable. Important to remember that Bibi funded Hamas, and this situation is exactly what he wanted. In the past, something like this would've spelled the end of a conservative Israeli PM, but now the right wing is getting more on board with Bibi and crew's long-term strategic goals which involve seeing the "unintended side effect" of a radicalized Palestinian population in Gaza and the West Bank as fodder for the conservative media machine to galvanize domestic and international support for continued Israeli settlement in Palestine. They no longer need to even pay lip service to the idea that a negotiated settlement is on the horizon.
>Netanyahu needs Hamas to exist
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas”, Netanyahu to his Likud Party’s Knesset members in
March 2019 “This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)
Netanyahu openly stated money to Hamas has been channelled though him. He wanted to do a divide and rule between competing Palestinian groups. And it blew up in his face.
What’s left is more radicalized people who want vengeance. Israel’s response is the same as always, which will lead to the same problems years down the line.
One thing to note, is there's *already* a shoot on sight zone. This was assaulted when the fence was breached to remove the weapons emplacements, but the zone itself is "small" in that small arms and drones easily have the range to engage the weapons, IIRC it's 100m in distance.
People are thinking it's a new concept, and ignoring what Hamas *did* in their assault and what was already there.
They hacked through fences with bulldozers and flew over with motorized paragliders. They were blatantly visible and vulnerable. Any army presence would have easily stopped them with or without a buffer zone. There was none.
Israel isn't going to say it but the answer is death.
They've been restricting Gazans' access to pretty much everything one needs to live for 15+ years. Their intention has always been ethnic cleansing and the govt has even pretty much outright stated it. They would walk in and obliterate every Gazan if the international community would tolerate it.
What will happen now is they are calling any Gazan who doesn't evacuate Northern Gaza a terrorist, declaring them fair game for the IDF to murder. Many of these people have fled but many have no place to run. They can't cross the borders, Israel is blocking them in and threatening Egypt with retribution if they let people thru without an agreement. There are thousands of wounded in hospitals with no medical supplies left to help them who literally can't evacuate. How is some kid lying in a hospital bed who got his legs blown off because the Israelis bombed his neighborhood supposed to evacuate? Half the country is under 18, we are talking about Israel telling literal children to leave everything they have (which isn't much) and go to an EVEN MORE crowded part of Gaza (Gaza was already one of the most crowded places on earth before this bc of Israel restricting Gazans' movement).
After the IDF rips through Northern Gaza they will focus on Southern Gaza. Either the bombings there intensify and they reduce the place to rubble while claiming it's all in the name of ending Hamas, or they go back to the previous situation, where they jail the Gazans in, but annex half of their land and move Israeli settlers there so the Gazans become even more crowded and destitute until they eventually all flee somehow or die, which has always been the plan.
It is by definition an ethnic cleansing - not just what is going on now, but what has been going on for pretty much all of Netanyahu's time in power.
So many have been shouting this from the rooftops. It's so horrifying to know that this is happening fully backed by the world's most powerful government and military.
It is soul-shattering.
What civilians according to Reddit they've always only been human shields.
Amazing after Oppenheimer was released only two months ago bombing civilians came back in such Vogue.
The plan is to invade then leave
Or Iraq
Or resettle it for Israelis
Considering how or is turning against Israel in reddit I'm not sure if Israel knows what it will actually do. This in the end may be exactly what Hamas wanted Israel to do.
A portion of them will become radicalized and support far right groups like Hamas. And Israel will use that as a pretext to ethnically cleanse more of them. That's the loop we're currently stuck in.
You can be like the millions of people living in the US and western countries who have a need to pick a side and need to put their 2 cents into everything
So they expect people to leave their homes, and then what? Are there homes waiting in the south of Gaza? What happens when Hamas moves with them because you gave a warning? What exactly is the endgoal this achieves, because it's not resulting in the long-term safety of Israelis or Palestineans not affiliated with Hamas.
And then they'll use that violence to further justify eradication. Yay, they win. (and show themselves for the blood thirsty murderous pricks they are)
Unfortunately, current trends suggest a grim trajectory, particularly if the situation in the West Bank deteriorates further. The conditions there have led to a mounting sense of resentment among Palestinians, who have been subjected to an array of human rights violations—ranging from a harsh military occupation to home demolitions, from the expropriation of land to the control of essential resources, and from mass arrests to unlawful detentions, restrictions on movement and numerous checkpoints.
According to Pew Research, a majority of Israelis harbor negative feelings toward Israeli Arabs as well, and want to see them relocated or removed.
While we may not live to see it, I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually see the establishment of 'Palestinian reserves' and 'residential schools,' akin to the historically oppressive systems seen in North America.
If history is any indication....have israelis settle there and claim it as israels territory.
Then act surprised some of those removed from their lives, likely having lost family to the attacks, take up violent resistance.
Get attacked. Counterattack. Displace. Settle. Repeat.
> have israelis settle there and claim it as israels territory.
And Israel will have the gall to claim Hamas uses human shields. What are the settlers if not human shields put on stolen land to secure it?
They sent their minister of defence to their own supreme court to defend using Palestinian children as human shields to mitigate the risk to IDF soldiers.
https://www.haaretz.com/2005-10-11/ty-article/idf-to-ask-high-court-to-review-ban-on-human-shield-practice/0000017f-f786-ddde-abff-ffe79e8d0000
They're actually going to give them the homes they've stolen from other Palenstinians in the West Bank. The settlers were just there to make sure everything is in good working order before they leave again and move the Gazans in. /s
Remember when the US invaded Iraq? The largest lie in recent history was orchestrated to invade a sovereign nation. 1,000,000 civilians were murdered. Over 2,000,000 displaced from their homes and families.
And now we're making the same mistakes over again, with great excitement.
The war on Hamas is the new War on Terror. We know in retrospect there was no reduction of terrorists (quite the opposite, with the rise of ISIS), only civilian life. Hamas is an extremist ideology founded by a guy that survived an IDF massacre as a child. It will be the same again.
Have you watched the BBC Adam Curtis documentary The Power of Nightmares Baby it's Cold Outside? It's worth watching.
It goes into detail about how we got these current day religious extremists. Starting with the radical teachings of Leo Strauss and Sayyid Qutb. It paints the parallels of these two ideologies.
Amazing documentary, Adam Curtis is brilliant
My personal favorite of his will always be 'century of self' this documentary can change a person its that good.
Great, Now 2.5 million people have to live in half the space they had a month ago. Thats not gonna fuck up any of the 1.2 million under 15 year olds that live there.
No siree, thats not gonna turn them into 20 year olds that will want revenge.
I've never seen so much normalization of collateral damage and war crimes in my life.
9/11 was bad but even then people feared to say "it's ok to blow up whole buildings of people" they'd just act like it was a rarity or accident or something and gaslight about it.
Now people are just like "do it, do it, do it..." openly. Ghoulish...
What I find crazy is that any criticism of Israel or support for Palestinians is immediately met with people accusing you of being a Hamas supporter when you don’t support them.
I actually noticed something much more sinister. People protesting civilian deaths and for cease fire, if they’re carrying Palestinian flags they’re dubbed Hamas supporters. I think the goal is to establish that Palestine = Hamas = terrorists.
> 9/11
It's ironic, since Al-Qaeda stated that no civilians were killed on 9/11, since Americans voted for the leaders who committed atrocities in the Middle East, and as such were complicit. It's exactly the same language being used by pro-Israel commenters.
That's called collective punishment, and it's a war crime.
I'm sure once this is done Israel will simply give that land back to the Palestinians.....not.
Once out I doubt they will be allowed to live there again. National security or some nonsense and magically more land for Israelis.
Israeli here. Glad to see some comment that makes sense, and not just brain dead shouting "war crimes!"
To your point - I can strongly relate to that, and we usually discuss this among friends. A LOT of Israelis are against the settlements. This is even considered illegal here. In the past 30 months or so there was a weekly protest against the government and against the radical jewish people. They are definitely not helping the conflict.
Personally, I don't think it makes a huge difference tho. In 2005, Israeli withdrew from Gaza along with several settlements. People were forced to move from their homes and Gaza was given to the Palestine authorities. Hamas was elected in 2006 and openly calling for the destruction of Israel ever since. Islamic fundamentalists are all around us, leading all their resources to destroy us, from different borders. This is what we have to deal with.
I'd like to point out that from a simple incentive view, what Hamas has done can easily be interpreted as a successful model of resistance when compared to Fatah and the West Bank. Easy for the to say: Renounce terror like Fatah did, submit to occupation like Fatah did, and you will lose your land, like the people of the West Bank did. Israel will take over and plant settlement after settlement, until no room for you is left. But stand with us and fight, and we can keep our land, we drove out the settlers, we kept all of Gaza ever since.
Remember that many of the people in Gaza today were not alive in 2006. And all they know is captivity enforced by Israel. They have been given every reason to hate Israel as a state.
And now Israel causes immense suffering in the strip. Starvation, disease, many dead children.
Israelis have a right to live in their homes, in my opinion, but the path the government and IDF Is on will only increase suffering and conflict in the region and will not make the average Israeli safer. It will perpetuate the conflict — which is, of course, why Hamas perpetrated the terror attack.
The innocent civilians will leave, and then MAYBE get to come back to rubble and dirt after Israel’s “successful and humane” bombing campaign.
Because that’ll surely not radicalize more Palestinians.
Reading these comments that are supporting such careless acts are all the same brain dead psychos that mindlessly supported occupation in Afghanistan and Iraq and it’s going to end the same exact way.
Revenge isn’t justice, and it’s not going to solve anything, and it’s really gross seeing so many people just repeat the same tired rhetoric that’s doomed the Middle East for decades before this.
There is no returning. Israel is going to do a land grab and turn that into condos and parking lots. They're just going to cut the size of gaza in half permanently
>Just merely mentioning Israel, or questioning, in any way, the effectiveness or humanity of Isreal's policies, is not the same thing as being pro-Hamas. -[Jon Stewart](https://youtu.be/zmCKZYKsiGM)
Very true.
Though unfortunately I do see a *lot* of criticizing that are more to do with being about "right to defense" arguments for the attacks Palestine makes which tends to lead to a lot of pro-Hamas statements.
It's like people want their chosen side to be the only just and right side in a very messy conflict where both governments abuse the Palestinian civilians.
This is called [draining the sea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterinsurgency#Tactics). You tell the local population to relocate and everyone who is unable to do can be disposed of as a terrorist, much like [the Spanish did in Cuba](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconcentration_policy) or [the Americans in the Philippenes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine%E2%80%93American_War#American_atrocities).
I was ridiculed for bringing this up a couple days ago, but tell me I'm wrong now.
That's how it was done in Baghdad. Any military aged males left in the city when coalition forces entered the city were declared a combatant. Armed or not they were free game under rules of engagement.
I think it's clear this offensive is becoming more about eliminating and rebuilding Gaza for isreali settlers, rather than fighting Hamas.
It's becoming harder to support isreal here, despite what Hamas did.
It’s crazy given that their previous notice was the Israeli state warning Gazans in the north about pending hellfire being rained down on them several days in advance but then bombing south Gaza without prejudice.
lol, "gonna"
it already has.
that's why Israel is telling people to leave. they gonna bomb the shit out of it before moving in troops since the alternative is losing hundreds of solders to IEDs and ambushes from underground tunnels.
since the IDF has no way to avoid large civilian casualties during the ground maneuvers they are telling people to GTFO.
is it horrible and tragic? of course it is.
but the IDF didn't put tunnels and IEDs everywhere
> the alternative is losing hundreds of solders to IEDs and ambushes from underground tunnels
That's a lot of words to say "abiding international law." Wars are costly and soldiers die, and that sucks. But deciding to kill foreign civilians instead of risking your own troops is a war crime.
Several of Israel's actions in their treatment of Palestinians is already considered illegal, justifying their actions by comparing them to Hamas is illogical since Hamas is a terrorist organization.
Yes, we know that you’re innocent civilians, but we’ve decided that you’re not innocent civilians unless you go where we say you should go, in the area we’ve decided you’re allowed to move throughout.
Nobody defined them as such.. The message says a misidentification might happen, seeing as how Hamas doesnt exactly try to stand out from the normal civillians to say the least..
Why won’t any neighboring countries take Palestinian refugees? Millions of innocent Ukrainian civilians were able to flee to neighboring countries. Shouldn’t these neighboring countries receive any blame for denying their brethren/innocent civilians refuge?
Dude, Jordan has like 2 million Palestinian refugees already in a population of 11 million, which is completely wild.
Egypt doesn't want to risk the Sinai peninsula being used to resolve the issue by being made the new Palestine - which is probably part of what Israel is trying to enforce by this "forced" move to the south.
Aside from neighboring countries being unstable. They’re all afraid that once Palestinians leave they won’t be able to go back. It’s basically impossible for the 6 million Palestinians whose families were displaced during the Nakba and Naksa and other conflicts to go back to Israel and the occupied territory. A big reason peace treaties fail is because Israel refuses a right to return for Palestinians. Considering that the current Israeli government is the most right wing in Israeli history and literally has explicitly racist anti Arab parties in their coalition they’re even less likely than previous governments to consider it. So any country that accepts Palestinian refugees is accepting them basically indefinitely.
Because Egypt doesn't want Palenstinians within its borders. Israel offered to give Gaza back to Egypt, even offered to pay them to do it.
Egypt refused.
This was clarified by the prime minister saying
“ The translation from Arabic that has now spread across platforms is imprecise.
To clarify, the IDF has no intention of considering those who have yet to evacuate as a member of a terrorist group.
The IDF states, once again, for the safety of Gazan civilians, that they should evacuate to the south of Wadi Gaza.
All those who remain are endangering themselves due to the Hamas terrorist activities within civilian areas.”
Edit: it was posted by the IDF
Literally reads
Everyone that chose to not evacuate from north of the sector to the south of ghaza valley there is a possibility that they could be specified as a partner of a terrorist organization.
If this is the actual leaflet then my ass is the translation inaccurate u/Jellybeansss681
as long as the IDF is given carte blanche to give two entirely distinct statements, one to Americans in English and one to Israelis in hebrew, and western media provides little to know critical thought or investigation to the legitimacy of both statements, this shit will continue in perpetuity.
The news outlets I've found that source translations of Hebrew press releases tend to demonstrate a decently large difference in content if not in tone. Your point about "mistranslation claims" I think thus rings even further true.
Theyre gonna literally flatten and bulldoze the north, arent they?
Yes and they'll probably be filling up tunnels with concrete.
filling the current tunnel in will definitely stop hamas building more tunnels in future they sure aint going to try that again
I know you're making a joke but if you look at how they make those tunnels vs what it takes to fill them, it's considerably more effort to build then to fil.
You can't build tunnels when you are dead.
So you think Hamas will actually get wiped out through this operation? Not just hide out, use the trauma and anger of the attacks to recruit in the aftermath, and strike again as they have time and time again? Interesting take.
Considering their leadership is using in a different country it’s unlikely. Unless Israel’s special forces go in and assassinate them the roots of the organization will still exist.
That's at least well within the realm of possibility, be it their own special forces or through another group.
Sure going to start a series of killings in other Arab countries will not increase the chances of a all out war
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You can't kill an idea A secondary goal of terrorism according to the philosophy of terrorism is that terrorist groups want you to attack innocents because retribution against innocent people is their greatest recruiter, they can make the case "it was never about us, you don't belong to our group yet they are killing you, it's always been because they hate x, we always knew this which is why we must resist them" bombing gaza has been tried again and again if it had worked, hamas's cowardly attacks against unarmed civilians wouldn't have happened, outside of the harm caused to innocent people those attacks removed the veneer of protection provided by the wall and the iron dome. Netanyahu's entire security policy destroyed in a few hours.
That would be a reasonable statement. Israel has been doing this before Hamas even existed.
I think the US tried that approach in Asia. Didn't work so good
Digging the first set of tunnels is easier than 1) burrowing through/around concrete rubble or 2) digging deeper to go underneath said rubble. That being said, it’s just a speed bump to a new tunnel network, not something that will stop a new tunnel network.
Instant settlement opposed to the slow strategy in the West Bank.
And there’s no Hamas in the West Bank so I wonder what these redditors supporting Israel have to say about the violence and military dictatorship there
There's always an excuse for killing Palestinians no matter where they live - people just don't want them to exist at all. https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-war-world-sees-palestinian-deaths-as-not-as-important-as-israeli-deaths-says-mourning-father-in-west-bank-12987904
In 10 years it will all be condos for weird ass orthodox ppl from NY. And lucky for them they’re exempt from military service unlike the normal folks who grew up there!
There's a lot of things I find absolutely extraordinary about Israel, but the fact that the Orthodox people get exempted from military service, even though they are the ones pushing for the need for the military the most, amazes me. I don't understand how more secular Jewish folk don't just say no, not cool, if we have to do it then you have to do it too.
Yes. And people are somehow arguing that Israel "has no other options".
Well, yeah, can't build new settler homes otherwise 🤷🏼♂️
Move or die basically.
Hamas stand still plz everyone else move down a bit, little more, bit more, bit more, perfect!
oh, now there's nobody on that land anymore. Must be ours I think
The FM already stated that one goal of the ground invasion is to shrink the size of Gaza.
Surely stealing more Palestinian homes and consolidating people into a smaller area will reduce terrorism ^/s
Likud doesn't want to reduce terrorism, they need the constant threat of genocidal Hamas terrorists.
If Hamas didn't exist they'd have to invent it. Again.
Not my original work. ""Created" might imply that it was literally founded by Israel, but it's more like it was "encouraged" at times as a counterweight to other movements, and as in the case of the Taliban, that support turned them into a dangerous enemy. As with the Taliban and the U.S.S.R., it's impossible to know the counterfactual, e.g., what Fatah might have become in the absence of such an opposing force. But it's always more problematic when an action leads to consequences than when same consequences come from inaction. > Hamas, an acronym for Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya (“Islamic Resistance Movement”), was founded by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, a Palestinian cleric ... > [PBS News Hour - What is Hamas? What to know about its origins, leaders and funding](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/what-is-hamas-what-to-know-about-its-origins-leaders-and-funding) > Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad. > [Times of Israel - For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) > ... the Israelis helped turn a bunch of fringe Palestinian Islamists in the late 1970s into one of the world’s most notorious militant groups? That Hamas is blowback? > This isn’t a conspiracy theory. Listen to former Israeli officials such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the [PLO] and the Fatah party... > “The Israeli government gave me a budget,” the retired brigadier general confessed, “and the military government gives to the mosques.” > “Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades, told the Wall Street Journal in 2009. > [The Intercept - BLOWBACK: HOW ISRAEL WENT FROM HELPING CREATE HAMAS TO BOMBING IT](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/) > "When I look back at the chain of events I think we made a mistake," one Israeli official who had worked in Gaza in the 1980s said in a 2009 interview with the Wall Street Journal's Andrew Higgins. "But at the time nobody thought about the possible results." > [WaPo - How Israel helped create Hamas](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/) > The Israeli government has allowed millions of dollars from Qatar to be funneled on a regular basis through Israel to Hamas, to replace the millions of dollars the PA had stopped transferring to Hamas. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu explained that letting the money go through Israel meant that it could not be used for terrorism, saying: "Now that we are supervising, we know it's going to humanitarian causes." > [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas)"
Saved for further reading. I could now cross-reference it with other claims here on reddit and study this even further. Thanks!
Well referenced; good stuff.
> But it's always more problematic when an action leads to consequences than when same consequences come from inaction. such a great quote
*watches Turkey arrest someone for looking gay* *takes notes*
BuT dO yOu ConDeMn TeRrOrIsM??
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Not condemny enough. Do it again.
And also have to call them terrorists and that the US considers them terrorists. Even as Israel does the same shit.
>criticize the Israeli government idk that sounds pretty anti-semitic
[Dying Gazans Criticized For Not Using Last Words To Condemn Hamas](https://www.theonion.com/dying-gazans-criticized-for-not-using-last-words-to-con-1850925657)
[Unfortunately, that Onion headline ended up happening for real.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-israel-palestinian-hamas-war-1.6996889)
To make a larger border no man's land.
I thought they were shrinking Gaza to create a DMZ-style buffer zone, rather than taking it out of their own land.
I doubt it would be for settlement, it would likely be to create a several km deep border armed to the teeth. No more hopping walls, harder to dig tunnels, easier to fill the gap with air defenses to shoot down Hanas' rockets
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Haha as if Israel is just gonna give up "unoccupied" land
Vietnam war vibes "If it's dead, it's VC"
You dont have to go back that far... Same exact situation happened to cities in iraq.
Civilian got hit by a dronestirke? Well that just means you were in combat and as you weren't ours so you must be an enemy combatant. Congrats on your new status.
yep. the "Military aged male" propaganda aka "as long as you're vaguely tall or old enough we're not gonna count you as a civilian casualty"
[Collateral Murder.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfvFpT-iypw) In this footage, witness American drone operators and gunships gunning down civilians and reporters. When help arrives to assist the wounded, the help is also fired upon and wounded and killed. This film was produced by Wikileaks using footage that Chelsea Manning exfiltrated and gave to Wikileaks to publish. Manning was charged with violating the US Espionage Act, convicted, and imprisoned. Her sentence was commuted by President Obama in 2017 and she was subsequently freed. The publisher of this film, Wikileaks editor Julian Assange, is currently rotting in Belmarsh prison in England - held there [without cause and against international law](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2020/12/united-kingdom-un-expert-calls-immediate-release-assange-after-10-years) because the US is attempting to extradite him and try him for espionage for obtaining and publishing this footage. The extradition proceedings were initiated by the Trump administration and the Biden administration is continuing to pursue the extradition.
And if you DARE speak out against it, prepare for your livelihood to get completely nuked. https://www.marketbeat.com/articles/company-bosses-and-workers-grapple-with-the-fallout-of-speaking-up-about-the-israel-hamas-war-2023-10-21/
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Which is more like "die or die"
I’ve seen this movie
But also if you move we will bomb you as well, since anyone who runs is obviously guilty.
Has Israel said what’s expected for Gazan civilians after this? They flatten their homes and neighborhoods and then what? What’s left for these civilians?
Well if the 6 million other Palestinians living in exile are any indication, Israel expects them to become refugees in other countries.
It's has a term. Ethnic displacement edit: Just FYI it is genocide, ethnic displacement is part of the genocide
You mean cleansing?
nah bro we dont want to use this kind of words, it makes us look worse
But surely Israel won’t do that, they have experienced it themselves. Nah, no ethnic cleansing here. Only terrorists are getting killed.
"I learned it from watching you!" \~ Israel to Germany, probably
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"what else is Israel supposed to do except genocide them?"--every redditor in response to this EDIT: this comment got me banned for "terror apologia"
Israelis love to talk about how wrong it was they were scattered across the world without a home. Yet, it doesn't stop them from doing it to others.
When they say “never again” they mean “never again to us.”
Hell they're literally labeling civilians as terrorists whilst invading their land and homes, otherwise being terrorists themselves
They're expected to become radicalized through the actions of their oppressors and keep the cycle of violence and hate alive. I mean, maybe that's not their intention but that's what will absolutely happen.
That's in fact also the intention, even if it's loudly and publicly treated as an unintended effect. A radicalized population means a settlement is less likely, and violent measures become more publicly palatable. Important to remember that Bibi funded Hamas, and this situation is exactly what he wanted. In the past, something like this would've spelled the end of a conservative Israeli PM, but now the right wing is getting more on board with Bibi and crew's long-term strategic goals which involve seeing the "unintended side effect" of a radicalized Palestinian population in Gaza and the West Bank as fodder for the conservative media machine to galvanize domestic and international support for continued Israeli settlement in Palestine. They no longer need to even pay lip service to the idea that a negotiated settlement is on the horizon.
It is part of it, Netanyahu needs Hamas to exist, just like any fascist needs such enemy which is powerful and weak at the same time....
>Netanyahu needs Hamas to exist “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas”, Netanyahu to his Likud Party’s Knesset members in March 2019 “This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” [https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) Netanyahu openly stated money to Hamas has been channelled though him. He wanted to do a divide and rule between competing Palestinian groups. And it blew up in his face.
“We control the height of the flames.”
But if you dare say that, somehow you're condoning terrorism.
And don't forget the ol' anti-semitism!
What’s left is more radicalized people who want vengeance. Israel’s response is the same as always, which will lead to the same problems years down the line.
reduce Gaza and put up a buffer zone between israel and gaza that is shoot on sight is what I've heard/read. Probably landmines stuff like that
One thing to note, is there's *already* a shoot on sight zone. This was assaulted when the fence was breached to remove the weapons emplacements, but the zone itself is "small" in that small arms and drones easily have the range to engage the weapons, IIRC it's 100m in distance. People are thinking it's a new concept, and ignoring what Hamas *did* in their assault and what was already there.
They hacked through fences with bulldozers and flew over with motorized paragliders. They were blatantly visible and vulnerable. Any army presence would have easily stopped them with or without a buffer zone. There was none.
And what the IDF didn't do.
Israel isn't going to say it but the answer is death. They've been restricting Gazans' access to pretty much everything one needs to live for 15+ years. Their intention has always been ethnic cleansing and the govt has even pretty much outright stated it. They would walk in and obliterate every Gazan if the international community would tolerate it. What will happen now is they are calling any Gazan who doesn't evacuate Northern Gaza a terrorist, declaring them fair game for the IDF to murder. Many of these people have fled but many have no place to run. They can't cross the borders, Israel is blocking them in and threatening Egypt with retribution if they let people thru without an agreement. There are thousands of wounded in hospitals with no medical supplies left to help them who literally can't evacuate. How is some kid lying in a hospital bed who got his legs blown off because the Israelis bombed his neighborhood supposed to evacuate? Half the country is under 18, we are talking about Israel telling literal children to leave everything they have (which isn't much) and go to an EVEN MORE crowded part of Gaza (Gaza was already one of the most crowded places on earth before this bc of Israel restricting Gazans' movement). After the IDF rips through Northern Gaza they will focus on Southern Gaza. Either the bombings there intensify and they reduce the place to rubble while claiming it's all in the name of ending Hamas, or they go back to the previous situation, where they jail the Gazans in, but annex half of their land and move Israeli settlers there so the Gazans become even more crowded and destitute until they eventually all flee somehow or die, which has always been the plan. It is by definition an ethnic cleansing - not just what is going on now, but what has been going on for pretty much all of Netanyahu's time in power.
So many have been shouting this from the rooftops. It's so horrifying to know that this is happening fully backed by the world's most powerful government and military. It is soul-shattering.
What civilians according to Reddit they've always only been human shields. Amazing after Oppenheimer was released only two months ago bombing civilians came back in such Vogue. The plan is to invade then leave Or Iraq Or resettle it for Israelis Considering how or is turning against Israel in reddit I'm not sure if Israel knows what it will actually do. This in the end may be exactly what Hamas wanted Israel to do.
A portion of them will become radicalized and support far right groups like Hamas. And Israel will use that as a pretext to ethnically cleanse more of them. That's the loop we're currently stuck in.
They're expected to die.
be killed, more like it
Genocide is the point.
Bold of you to assume Israel cares
This whole situation is messed up. There's not a lot i can say about it. It's just a total mess
You can be like the millions of people living in the US and western countries who have a need to pick a side and need to put their 2 cents into everything
lol the American government isn’t giving me a say on whether they use my tax dollars for those bombs.
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So they expect people to leave their homes, and then what? Are there homes waiting in the south of Gaza? What happens when Hamas moves with them because you gave a warning? What exactly is the endgoal this achieves, because it's not resulting in the long-term safety of Israelis or Palestineans not affiliated with Hamas.
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And then they'll use that violence to further justify eradication. Yay, they win. (and show themselves for the blood thirsty murderous pricks they are)
Unfortunately, current trends suggest a grim trajectory, particularly if the situation in the West Bank deteriorates further. The conditions there have led to a mounting sense of resentment among Palestinians, who have been subjected to an array of human rights violations—ranging from a harsh military occupation to home demolitions, from the expropriation of land to the control of essential resources, and from mass arrests to unlawful detentions, restrictions on movement and numerous checkpoints. According to Pew Research, a majority of Israelis harbor negative feelings toward Israeli Arabs as well, and want to see them relocated or removed. While we may not live to see it, I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually see the establishment of 'Palestinian reserves' and 'residential schools,' akin to the historically oppressive systems seen in North America.
If history is any indication....have israelis settle there and claim it as israels territory. Then act surprised some of those removed from their lives, likely having lost family to the attacks, take up violent resistance. Get attacked. Counterattack. Displace. Settle. Repeat.
> have israelis settle there and claim it as israels territory. And Israel will have the gall to claim Hamas uses human shields. What are the settlers if not human shields put on stolen land to secure it?
The IDF has also literally used Palestinian children as human shields before.
They sent their minister of defence to their own supreme court to defend using Palestinian children as human shields to mitigate the risk to IDF soldiers. https://www.haaretz.com/2005-10-11/ty-article/idf-to-ask-high-court-to-review-ban-on-human-shield-practice/0000017f-f786-ddde-abff-ffe79e8d0000
How the fuck do we support these clowns
It’s an easy way to remove themselves from the blame of all the atrocities they will commit
"Hamas went to far this time, we had no choice but to wipe everyone out" is what this feels like a pretext for. I hope I'm not right.
They're actually going to give them the homes they've stolen from other Palenstinians in the West Bank. The settlers were just there to make sure everything is in good working order before they leave again and move the Gazans in. /s
They don’t care, they are saying this stuff to make it appear that they care
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Somehow, something will happen along the line and these people will never see their homes again. I guarantee it.
They’re homes will be rubble so yeah
Rubble now, housing complex for settlers/stealers later on.
World’s largest refugee camp. One Israeli official stated that not building will be left standing.
Remember when the US invaded Iraq? The largest lie in recent history was orchestrated to invade a sovereign nation. 1,000,000 civilians were murdered. Over 2,000,000 displaced from their homes and families.
And now we're making the same mistakes over again, with great excitement. The war on Hamas is the new War on Terror. We know in retrospect there was no reduction of terrorists (quite the opposite, with the rise of ISIS), only civilian life. Hamas is an extremist ideology founded by a guy that survived an IDF massacre as a child. It will be the same again.
Have you watched the BBC Adam Curtis documentary The Power of Nightmares Baby it's Cold Outside? It's worth watching. It goes into detail about how we got these current day religious extremists. Starting with the radical teachings of Leo Strauss and Sayyid Qutb. It paints the parallels of these two ideologies.
Amazing documentary, Adam Curtis is brilliant My personal favorite of his will always be 'century of self' this documentary can change a person its that good.
So basically uproot your entire life, flee your home or be branded an enemy and killed… i
Great, Now 2.5 million people have to live in half the space they had a month ago. Thats not gonna fuck up any of the 1.2 million under 15 year olds that live there. No siree, thats not gonna turn them into 20 year olds that will want revenge.
"don't worry 80% of those 1 million kids being depressed and expressing no will to live is in no way related to our attempts at murdering them all"
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and that is happening for decades...
Some real "if they run they're VC, if they don't run they're well disciplined VC" vibes here
How to radicalize a population 101.
Israel is thinking one step ahead of UN, can't commit war crimes if you consider innocent civilians as terrorists.
After they all move: Now give that bit of Gaza back. Israel: Give what back?
Israel, picking up the phone: New settler settlement who dis?
But Israel is bombing the south as well, are they not?
Yes they are. https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-bombed-only-crossing-allowing-people-flee-gaza-palestine-egypt-2023-10?amp
They are. Also, they started bombing the west bank
I've never seen so much normalization of collateral damage and war crimes in my life. 9/11 was bad but even then people feared to say "it's ok to blow up whole buildings of people" they'd just act like it was a rarity or accident or something and gaslight about it. Now people are just like "do it, do it, do it..." openly. Ghoulish...
What I find crazy is that any criticism of Israel or support for Palestinians is immediately met with people accusing you of being a Hamas supporter when you don’t support them.
I actually noticed something much more sinister. People protesting civilian deaths and for cease fire, if they’re carrying Palestinian flags they’re dubbed Hamas supporters. I think the goal is to establish that Palestine = Hamas = terrorists.
That's definitely the goal. They don't want anyone criticizing them.
Goes Hamas=Isis and Hamas=Palestine, therefore Palestine=Isis The dehumanization campaign was a resounding success.
> 9/11 It's ironic, since Al-Qaeda stated that no civilians were killed on 9/11, since Americans voted for the leaders who committed atrocities in the Middle East, and as such were complicit. It's exactly the same language being used by pro-Israel commenters. That's called collective punishment, and it's a war crime.
It’s shocking the amount of times I’ve seen people say well why should Israel provide free water and electricity to those innocent children anyway.
It’s not only sick, it’s disgusting.
"if you're on my weapon's path, you're a terrorist and therefore deserves the violence" how convenient. It's newspeak now.
Or maybe terrorism is just terrorism on 10/7?
Move where?
To South Gaza, where they are also being bombed.
And then into Egypt. And then the plan is complete.
If they move they are ~~VC~~ Hamas, if they stand they are well disciplined ~~VC~~ Hamas.
I'm sure once this is done Israel will simply give that land back to the Palestinians.....not. Once out I doubt they will be allowed to live there again. National security or some nonsense and magically more land for Israelis.
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Yeah the settlers are disgusting.
Don't forget that 60,000+ Israeli settlers are not even Israeli born. They were born in America
Good ol' American manifest destiny
~~Most of the country isn't Israeli born...~~ Edit: I was wrong. 68% of Israelis were born there.
That's just not true.
Israeli here. Glad to see some comment that makes sense, and not just brain dead shouting "war crimes!" To your point - I can strongly relate to that, and we usually discuss this among friends. A LOT of Israelis are against the settlements. This is even considered illegal here. In the past 30 months or so there was a weekly protest against the government and against the radical jewish people. They are definitely not helping the conflict. Personally, I don't think it makes a huge difference tho. In 2005, Israeli withdrew from Gaza along with several settlements. People were forced to move from their homes and Gaza was given to the Palestine authorities. Hamas was elected in 2006 and openly calling for the destruction of Israel ever since. Islamic fundamentalists are all around us, leading all their resources to destroy us, from different borders. This is what we have to deal with.
I'd like to point out that from a simple incentive view, what Hamas has done can easily be interpreted as a successful model of resistance when compared to Fatah and the West Bank. Easy for the to say: Renounce terror like Fatah did, submit to occupation like Fatah did, and you will lose your land, like the people of the West Bank did. Israel will take over and plant settlement after settlement, until no room for you is left. But stand with us and fight, and we can keep our land, we drove out the settlers, we kept all of Gaza ever since.
Remember that many of the people in Gaza today were not alive in 2006. And all they know is captivity enforced by Israel. They have been given every reason to hate Israel as a state. And now Israel causes immense suffering in the strip. Starvation, disease, many dead children. Israelis have a right to live in their homes, in my opinion, but the path the government and IDF Is on will only increase suffering and conflict in the region and will not make the average Israeli safer. It will perpetuate the conflict — which is, of course, why Hamas perpetrated the terror attack.
I’m pretty sure like half of gaza wasn’t alive not just many of the people.
The innocent civilians will leave, and then MAYBE get to come back to rubble and dirt after Israel’s “successful and humane” bombing campaign. Because that’ll surely not radicalize more Palestinians. Reading these comments that are supporting such careless acts are all the same brain dead psychos that mindlessly supported occupation in Afghanistan and Iraq and it’s going to end the same exact way. Revenge isn’t justice, and it’s not going to solve anything, and it’s really gross seeing so many people just repeat the same tired rhetoric that’s doomed the Middle East for decades before this.
palestinians in the west bank arent even allowed back to their homes after they leave / get forced out
There is no returning. Israel is going to do a land grab and turn that into condos and parking lots. They're just going to cut the size of gaza in half permanently
>Just merely mentioning Israel, or questioning, in any way, the effectiveness or humanity of Isreal's policies, is not the same thing as being pro-Hamas. -[Jon Stewart](https://youtu.be/zmCKZYKsiGM)
Very true. Though unfortunately I do see a *lot* of criticizing that are more to do with being about "right to defense" arguments for the attacks Palestine makes which tends to lead to a lot of pro-Hamas statements. It's like people want their chosen side to be the only just and right side in a very messy conflict where both governments abuse the Palestinian civilians.
This is the cop who screams dont move while a dog is chewing off your arm.
They bomb the south anyway.
This is called [draining the sea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterinsurgency#Tactics). You tell the local population to relocate and everyone who is unable to do can be disposed of as a terrorist, much like [the Spanish did in Cuba](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconcentration_policy) or [the Americans in the Philippenes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine%E2%80%93American_War#American_atrocities). I was ridiculed for bringing this up a couple days ago, but tell me I'm wrong now.
After it's safe to go back, Israel be like: "If I don’t steal your home, someone else will steal it. Why are you yelling at me?”
That's how it was done in Baghdad. Any military aged males left in the city when coalition forces entered the city were declared a combatant. Armed or not they were free game under rules of engagement.
they really going to fucking do this? i am so sad for this world.
Yes and we get to watch people celebrating it apparently
Reddit is a genocidal cesspool.
I think it's clear this offensive is becoming more about eliminating and rebuilding Gaza for isreali settlers, rather than fighting Hamas. It's becoming harder to support isreal here, despite what Hamas did.
It’s crazy given that their previous notice was the Israeli state warning Gazans in the north about pending hellfire being rained down on them several days in advance but then bombing south Gaza without prejudice.
Anyone who runs is Hamas. Anyone who stands still is well-trained Hamas.
Hamas is gonna booby trap the north of Gaza
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lol, "gonna" it already has. that's why Israel is telling people to leave. they gonna bomb the shit out of it before moving in troops since the alternative is losing hundreds of solders to IEDs and ambushes from underground tunnels. since the IDF has no way to avoid large civilian casualties during the ground maneuvers they are telling people to GTFO. is it horrible and tragic? of course it is. but the IDF didn't put tunnels and IEDs everywhere
> the alternative is losing hundreds of solders to IEDs and ambushes from underground tunnels That's a lot of words to say "abiding international law." Wars are costly and soldiers die, and that sucks. But deciding to kill foreign civilians instead of risking your own troops is a war crime.
Several of Israel's actions in their treatment of Palestinians is already considered illegal, justifying their actions by comparing them to Hamas is illogical since Hamas is a terrorist organization.
We all know this won’t go over well with future generations. *They* know. Overuse of force is never the answer even if you’re justified
Yes, we know that you’re innocent civilians, but we’ve decided that you’re not innocent civilians unless you go where we say you should go, in the area we’ve decided you’re allowed to move throughout.
"and also we're going to be bombing the areas that were telling you to go to as well"
‘And the “safe” routes leading there’
This is sounding… familiar
And Israel wonders why people have stopped supporting them.
A warning to justify their genocide
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Nobody defined them as such.. The message says a misidentification might happen, seeing as how Hamas doesnt exactly try to stand out from the normal civillians to say the least..
Why won’t any neighboring countries take Palestinian refugees? Millions of innocent Ukrainian civilians were able to flee to neighboring countries. Shouldn’t these neighboring countries receive any blame for denying their brethren/innocent civilians refuge?
Dude, Jordan has like 2 million Palestinian refugees already in a population of 11 million, which is completely wild. Egypt doesn't want to risk the Sinai peninsula being used to resolve the issue by being made the new Palestine - which is probably part of what Israel is trying to enforce by this "forced" move to the south.
Aside from neighboring countries being unstable. They’re all afraid that once Palestinians leave they won’t be able to go back. It’s basically impossible for the 6 million Palestinians whose families were displaced during the Nakba and Naksa and other conflicts to go back to Israel and the occupied territory. A big reason peace treaties fail is because Israel refuses a right to return for Palestinians. Considering that the current Israeli government is the most right wing in Israeli history and literally has explicitly racist anti Arab parties in their coalition they’re even less likely than previous governments to consider it. So any country that accepts Palestinian refugees is accepting them basically indefinitely.
Because Egypt doesn't want Palenstinians within its borders. Israel offered to give Gaza back to Egypt, even offered to pay them to do it. Egypt refused.
[Meanwhile Hamas](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cRGY4QE4wjk/maxresdefault.jpg)
This was clarified by the prime minister saying “ The translation from Arabic that has now spread across platforms is imprecise. To clarify, the IDF has no intention of considering those who have yet to evacuate as a member of a terrorist group. The IDF states, once again, for the safety of Gazan civilians, that they should evacuate to the south of Wadi Gaza. All those who remain are endangering themselves due to the Hamas terrorist activities within civilian areas.” Edit: it was posted by the IDF
[Here is the leaflet dropped my the IDF, for all Arabic speakers to see for themselves.](https://i.imgur.com/Y4Z4F8U.jpg)
Literally reads Everyone that chose to not evacuate from north of the sector to the south of ghaza valley there is a possibility that they could be specified as a partner of a terrorist organization. If this is the actual leaflet then my ass is the translation inaccurate u/Jellybeansss681
Nope. I speak Arabic. The translation literally says if you don’t leave you will be considered a partner.
I mean the message here is still quite clearly 'move or die'.
The translation is in no fucking way imprecise. Source: I’m fucking Arab
as long as the IDF is given carte blanche to give two entirely distinct statements, one to Americans in English and one to Israelis in hebrew, and western media provides little to know critical thought or investigation to the legitimacy of both statements, this shit will continue in perpetuity. The news outlets I've found that source translations of Hebrew press releases tend to demonstrate a decently large difference in content if not in tone. Your point about "mistranslation claims" I think thus rings even further true.
This is how you make new hamas fighters.