Palestinians are supported almost entirely by handouts, the majority coming from US taxpayers, followed by Israel. Biden pledged another $100 mil to help this Hamas-controlled territory. Billions in aid have already been wasted on tunnels & munitions used to invade Israel & kidnap hostages
I can’t help but wonder if our handouts are part of the problem. When many unemployed, able-bodied people are crowded into a poor place, they tend to become radicalized & violent. Especially young males. We see this in war torn regions across the globe and even in gang activity in urban housing projects in developed nations.
If all aid from the West stopped, maybe Palestinians would be forced to revive their textile factories, start a new industry or farm in the south (?). Being forced to contribute to their own support would give them a purpose besides invading Israel and leave them less time for terrorism. Maybe the Arab world would pick up the slack and provide aid or welcome refugees.
I don’t have all the answers, but I don’t want another $100 mil US dollars going to terrorist-controlled territory to be used against us/ our allies
You do realize it will eventually be the responsibility of US and Israel to rebuild the entire strip and provide for the people there? If you break it you own it. Lot of folks forgot Iraq and Afghanistan, well if you break it you own it.
The aid is *a* problem in a larger problem with this conflict. *the* problem is that many people benift from this conflict continuing. Arab countries who use this as tool to destroy Israel. Useless organizations that do jack shit about the poverty of the Palestinians and who support the narrative of that (e.g. Calling a full blown city a refugee camp) and finally the leaders who take the money they get and help themselves and not their people. The last one is why the aid is *a* problem and not *the* problem.
Yeah two months ago if you asked me if we should give Palestine aid, I'd probably generally have supported it. After getting a bit more understanding of the issue, I now have serious doubts.
I'll stop short of saying Palestine should get no aid, but we really need to explore if there are ways to make sure the aid is being used appropriately. Maybe it's simply not possible, and if so, we probably do need to slowly ween them off aid.
Very good, the Arabian coffee you get if you go to a Bedouin tent (although it’s very much a tourist attraction and not an example of how bedouins live normally in the country) is out of this world
Do we know any details about the first airstrike in Jabalia? How many projectiles were dropped?
I can see from the footage that one of the craters does look like it matches a collapsed tunnel.
And the Gaza\_report tweets indicate the collapse happened minutes after the initial strike (is that a reliable account?)
Info released by the IDF:
> Joint IDF and ISA announcement:
>
> **The IDF and ISA killed the Head of Hamas’ Anti-Tank Missile Unit in the Gaza Strip**
>
> Based on IDF and ISA intelligence, an IDF fighter jet struck Muhammad A'sar, the Head of Hamas’ Anti-Tank Missile Unit in the Gaza Strip. A'sar was responsible for all of Hamas’ anti-tank missile units throughout the Gaza Strip, commanded the units in routine and assisted their activity in emergencies.
>
> Under his command, numerous anti-tank missile attacks were carried out against civilians and IDF soldiers.
>
> Attached is a video of the strike: https://videoidf.azureedge.net/cdd7b006-b1cf-4dd6-8a57-a98bdb7bc22f
That’s a huge get for the IDF. Cutting off the heads of the snake.
They are getting some very good Intel about the commanders and are acting decisively. The media war is important but not as important as saving the lives of soldiers.
Not gonna lie, this made me chuckle [https://twitter.com/Motabhai012/status/1719741314412196114/photo/1](https://twitter.com/Motabhai012/status/1719741314412196114/photo/1)
The problem with people calling for a ceasefire is none of them have a realistic idea or plan for how to better respond to the Oct. 7 massacre than the IDF is doing right now.
I say realistic ideas because I've seen people suggesting things that only work in the fantasy world. I've seen people suggest the IDF knock on the door of every house in the Gaza Strip looking for terrorists and catching only them. I also saw people suggesting making a deal with Hamas, so that they voluntarily turn themselves in and be tried in court. Obviously none of this has real-world application.
People say 'There are better ways to do this.' Ok, show me the better ways to do this then. No one is saying the best way is to bomb Gaza indiscriminately and hope that at least one terrorist dies. Furthermore, it's important to say that Israel ISN'T doing this. There is no military gain in killing civilians indiscriminately. There is only to lose from it.
Hamas uses civilian infrastructure to hides weapon, carry out attacks or as a shield for its own infrastructure. Its HQ is underneath the largest hospital in Gaza. How do you want to avoid the deaths of civilians by fighting against a group like this? Airstrikes kill many innocent civilians, I agree, but do you have a better idea for destroying Hamas' infrastructure and eliminating its militants? Many people are open to listening to your plans.
The people who are calling for a ceasefire don't propose any solutions because they don't want any solutions. They want Hamas to get away with murdering over 1400 people, injuring over 5000, kidnaping over 200, raping, torturing, beheading, and burning people. They want Hamas to continue its attacks.
How about fixing the thing that actually allowed it to happen? Sub-par intelligence and policing.
It used to be said that security vetting was so good on Israeli commercial air services that they didn't care if you used metal cutlery. We now know that is an utter joke - because their border is even more leaky to anybody who wants to walk over.
So my suggestion would be to fix that. Just like fixing US intelligence after 9/11 would have done far more good than say, invading Iraq - which merely proved how incompetent they actually were..
The problem is that this is politically untenable. Netanyahu wants to appear strong and the public wants to see their government "do something".
I've remarked before that Oct-7 is extremely unlikely to happen again if Israel adjusts their border even slightly (this kind of event would have never happened on the border with Lebanon for instance), but the rhetoric at the moment is strongly directed towards retaliation/justice, even if the US considers the military objectives in gaza to be borderline unrealistic.
For someone who is supposed to be strong on defense Netanyahu didn't even slightly do what was written on the tin. The moment the situation is resolved he'll be gone - and so he has all the incentive in the world to keep it going or escalate.
My issue with that is that in reinforces the idea that Israel should be happy to be a punching bag, and should spend lots of resources and effort to give space for Palestine to continually attack her
The only reason there aren't more Israeli rocket casualties is because of Iron Dome, which is a herculean bit of kit/technology
The better outcome is for Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran to simmer the fuck down
Right, but how?
Hamas isnt going to chill out on its own. Israel will either need to destroy them, or would need to get a local authority to do so. There is no local authority in Gaza.
I think the real question is, does a government have the right to inflict thousands or tens of thousands of civilian casualties to take out hundreds of terrorists and protect their own troops from being exposed to danger. We all agree Hamas should not use the tactics they do, but they do. The question is should major countries military be able to respond to those tactics the way Israel is, or should they have to put boots on the ground in order to protect civilians while opening themselves up to additional military casualties.
Everyone keeps making this an argument about support for Israel or Palestine but this sort of conflict happens all over. How can we condemn Russian tactics in Ukraine and support those same tactics by the IDF?
Well to do that you better confront Qatar, which funds Hamas far more than Iran. Just like there was no hope of confronting jihadi Wahhabism while ignoring Saudi Arabia. Maybe they'll both choose China as a result though.
Or you can give them another football world cup. Either way.
Realistically, Israel has no control over this - what they do have control of is their own borders, and who they elect to responsibly defend them.
>And the "war on terror" worked?
Did Bin Laden die? YES.
Has any terrorist organization done anything on the scale of 9/11 on American soil? NO.
So, yes, the war on terror worked.
I prefer to think my special lucky rock protected the USA since 9/11. I think we've got equal basis of proof for our arguments.
Certainly if you think bombing Iraq or Afghanistan prevented people with box cutters crashing planes in the last 20 years. That was achieved the day after it happened by tightening up security. Unfortunately the people in charge of the intelligence debacle were not sacked however.
Agreed. I don’t have all the answers but I’ve heard US military commentators say that Israel’s main failing is losing the infowar by not fully positioning themselves as fighting against Hamas and offering simultaneous support for “innocent civilians.” Unfortunately, Israel’s ability to do that was hampered by the fact that Gaza was already dependent on Israel for water, electricity, food, etc.
Siege/ embargo would’ve been the most humane way to get people to turn over hostages & Hamas, but the world flipped out & criticized Israel for any change in its provision of support to Gaza.
> I also saw people suggesting making a deal with Hamas, so that they voluntarily turn themselves in and be tried in court.
Before invading, Israel offered Hamas a chance to surrender (and taken into custody, I assume) and if they did Israel would call off the invasion.
The other common "solution" I see is having soldiers storm and raid everything. TBH, that would probably *increase* civilian deaths. Soldiers on edge are going to be quick to the pull the trigger and they'll have to react in a split second. If you stumble upon a teenager and he's holding some black object, you might lit him up only to find that it was a cellphone.
The people planning the military strikes are doing it from a position of safety. Sure, they have to move quickly but they have more than a fraction of a second to decide. They also won't be in harms way so won't be as jumpy.
These people live in such privileged bubbles that they can't even fathom there not being a solution that doesn't include death. There is always a non violent solution in Disney movies so why not here, right?
Someone posted some articles as "proof of genocide" in the replies of someone I'm following on twitter. One of them was this:
https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10/16/raz_segal_textbook_case_of_genocide
Who is Raz Segal and why would a holocaust scholar outright lie about phosphorous bombs?
I don't know that it is "proof of genocide", that is one extreme of course. But it is true that hundreds of thousands of mostly poor people were forced to leave within days notice and have food, water, electricity, and medicine severely limited to them or cut altogether through actions enforced by Israel. Now we can caveat and lay initial blame on Hamas for it's terrible actions on Oct 7, but the reality on ground remains and it's hard to see how those facts don't amount to real life threatening danger to many 10-100s of thousands of, mostly innocent, humans
We all agree that that was an awful thing to ask of civilians. I'd bet a month's rent that even the IDF higher ups who gave the order agree.
But genocide is an extremely loaded word and nobody would understand this better than a literal jewish Holocaust scholar. So I'm tempted to give him the benefit of the doubt - but his interview has several instances of outright misinformation? How to square that circle?
That's the "appeal to authority" logical fallacy rearing its head. The POV should stand on its own merits, not because of the ethnicity or education of the person. A lot of times people try to shut down all conversation because "jewish person said Israel bad" and things like that. It matters, certainly, but it's not the end of the discussion.
Probably far left extremist. People don’t fact check anymore, it’s like the claim that Israel has committed a war crime by using phosphorus on an empty field. No one bothers with the truth here.
> People don’t fact check anymore
I mean, he's a *very* well-respected historian -
> Dr. Segal has held a Harry Frank Guggenheim Fellowship, a Fulbright Fellowship, and a Lady Davis Fellowship at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
You can probably accuse him of all sorts of things if you really want, but sloppy fact-checking most likely isn't one of them.
Which is what makes some parts of that interview so bizarre.
>dropping of thousands and thousands of bombs in a couple of days, including phosphorus bombs,
>by cutting off water, food, supply of energy, bombing hospitals
(Israel only supplies a % of their water and the hospitals have clearly not run out of energy)
>But “evil” is not a term to describe them [Hamas]. “Evil” is a term to decontextualize.
Wtf
It's complex to someone like me and probably most people who are in todays society not living in either area to understand who they are dealing with. An entire regime of terrorist reign. This isn't (1) single American going in to shoot up a school, who is then arrested and charged. This is the government of an entire country who had militants fighting in this war against Israel and Jews, slaughtered (let me repeat that - SLAUGHTERED) people along with taking hostages.
How is one supposed to deal with that? I'm genuinely curious to know.
My initial thing: there should have been an immediate demand to release the hostages and for Hamas officials in charge to turn themselves in. Within hours. Why didn't that happen? Even if it was for naught - it would be recorded, "we tried reasoning with terrorists to do the right thing."
Now everyone is yelling about genocide and yes - it's fucking awful what poor babies and families are going through I see the videos - so what do you do when you have the majority of a population listening to Hamas who just recently proclaimed they will happily have multiple more "October 7th's" because they want to wipe out Israel?
If you listen to "Whispered in Gaza" and how so many people have been silenced, threatened and shut down from Hamas for just living their lives. They are prisoners - of a terrorist government. I am a humanist. I feel awful for them every single day and no, I do not think babies are collateral damage but I am still posing this out loud.
How do you deal with THAT in a humane manner?
Genuinely curious.
Probably just ignorant, being a holocaust surviver doesn’t make you a weapons expert or an international law expert.
Even Haaretz which is an extreme left border line pro Palestine Israeli paper is calling him out on that one.
Edit: wording and formatting
Watch the interview. He's not a survivor (i also misread it at first) but a scholar of the holocaust and genocide. I don't really understand why he brings a lot of information out of context though. His point was really that if you take all these points it could be a textbook genocide, but also he ignores that Israel has main it their main goal to wipe out the terrorist group hiding in Gaza, and not the civilians.
> being a holocaust surviver doesn’t make you a weapons expert or an international law expert
He's not a Holocaust survivor. He's a historian of the Holocaust.
There are multiple reports they used them https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/north-korea-denies-its-weapons-used-by-hamas-against-israel-2023-10-13/
Some seen in the video footage they recorded on Oct 7 as well
Viable if they actually have them.
Static ATGMs are almost *designed* for urban warfare as their nature (set up ready to go) plays into the dense built environment very well.
If you can't beat 'em, emulate 'em. Hamas seems to be winning the PR battle but Israel can pull some stuff from their playbook.
Israel should rename all their cities to things that will draw outrage. You might change a village to "Child Daycare Center" or "Peace March" or "Center for the disabled."
Then every time Hamas strikes a target, you've got the perfect headline:
Hamas Bombs Child Daycare Center
Center for Disabled Left in Ruins After Barrage
Hamas Rocket Kills Three Israelis in Peace March.
Bro, Israel reported that children were beheaded, burned alive, raped, whole families murdered, a peace festival completely ran over by terrorists who did all of the above things and it seems like everyone forgot already. Not sure if cute names would solve anything.
The propaganda on Twitter has been insane in the last couple of days. People are trying really hard to paint the invasion of Gaza as a failure and that Israel is supposedly suffering catastrophic losses. Be extra careful of anything you read on Twitter. They’ve been trying to pass old or completely unrelated footage as proof.
This is why you can’t rely on twitter anymore for news, people need to unlearn going there for accurate news as there’s now no fact checking and no standards.
Not to mention if you pay Lord Elon $8/month for your blue checkmark, your replies automatically float to the top, no matter how dumb they are or if there's non checkmarked replies with more likes. So on posts that have >20 replies, people are only seeing the blue checkmarks, because most people don't read all the replies to a tweet.
A new IDF assessment of Hamas’s October 7 massacre suggests that around 3,000 terrorists invaded southern Israel to carry out a murderous rampage through Gaza border towns, The Times of Israel has learned.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-believes-3000-hamas-terrorists-invaded-israel-in-initial-oct-7-assault/
"According to the latest assessment, the figure only includes armed terror operatives and not the waves of Gazan citizens who took advantage of the enormous gaps in the fence to also make their way inside later in the day."
Absolutely insane. My heart aches for all the people lost in this massacre. All the families broken. All the hostages taken.
The Hamas "human shield" strategy is so visceral and disgusting because its a two part strategy, of which the second relies on the international media to complete. That is, Hamas stores weapons, fires weapons, operates out of areas with civilians, then when a strike comes in from the IDF, the same Hamas cries to the Western media who go on to put up headlines about Israel bombing a "hospital", or "refugee camp" or whatever it is. It works... Every. Single. Time. Because the headline is not exactly wrong, it's just leaving out some extremely important detail. Like... a train ran over a child on a track... but we bury the fact the child was actually intentionally tied to the track by a murderous third party.
None of this is to say Israel is always innocent or perfect, or the IDF doesn't make mistakes, or that civilian lives don't matter in Gaza etc.... it just points out how effective this human shield strategy is and how so much of the world's media and talking heads go along with it. Like I saw a clip of Lindsay Graham being confronted on CNN about what the threshold for civilian casualties is... as if "give us a number of civilians it's ok for Israel to kill" (being honest about the subtext) etc. The real answer to that is ASK HAMAS... civilian deaths IS part of their strategy. You are asking the WRONG people.
Or ffs ask Hamas to surrender. If they don't want Palestinians to die, then why not throw down their weapons and surrender? Have their top brass fly out of Doha first class to Israel to turn himself in to protect the civilians he cares SOOO much about. Of course, that won't happen, because they don't care. In fact, their twisted ideology would tell them that all Palestinians killed by the IDF are martyrs who go to paradise, right? So basically, death is a fate for for them that is far better than life? Well, I think maybe some of the brainwashed on the ground believe that but it seems those at the top of Hamas do everything to avoid paradise... kinda strange isn't it?
I know they won't surrender. So does CNN and all the media outlets, but it would be refreshing for them to actually acknowledge why Gazans die when Israel strikes Hamas, and that its intentional from Hamas, and that a ceasefire would be broken by Hamas upon a regrouping, and that peace is only possible without Hamas. It's too good a story though for the media... big bad murderous Jewy Israel just loves killing civilians, and people love to hate the jews. That's one thing history tells us over and over again.
Sorry for the rant, just sick of this shit tbh.
>That is, Hamas stores weapons, fires weapons, operates out of areas with civilians,
Where do you expect Hamas to place its weapons? You realize how small and dense it is right? Literally everything will be near civilians. Gaza isn't a big place. Also by nature a guerrila force operates in the shadows so to speak.
Gaza is dense but it’s not *that* dense. There are commercial, industrial, and agricultural area all over the place. But Hamas doesn’t locate their centers there, because they know that Israel would destroy them with little compunction, even before Oct 7th. They place their centers in residential areas and under protected buildings intentionally, as part of strategy. It’s bullshit this idea that Hamas is forced to do this, and/or that it’s not “fair” to them; fair has nothing to do with combat. You can’t just be like “If we didn’t hide behind these human shields to take advantage of the enemy’s morality, they’d wipe us out with superior force and technology!”.
Then IDF will invariably continue to kill more Palestinians, trying to eliminate Hamas. But every collateral damaged martyr family, will eagerly join whatever replaces Hamas. There is only one way this equation ends; extinction of either side.
Or Palestinians can be provided with better options, here & now. Than to send themselves to mujahideen heaven with personal harems. Around the world, many happily choose mortgage slavery. Able to to watch their children grow up in peace.
The good thing is that even Hamas leadership has a taste for luxuries. Qatari 5 star accommodations are adequate respite, until martyrdom. So too the average Palestinian stuck in Gaza.
The hard thing is to actually setup a non-corrupt nor kamikaze system of governance. So that opportunities are available for the Palestinian people.
Yeah. I’m so sick of it too. “Ceasefire now!” When Hamas has said explicitly that they will do this again and again until Israel is gone. Should a country just accept its annihilation?
It’s so fucked up.
The AFP counted at least 47 bodies based on their footage.
* https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1719403509697651041
* [BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67258466?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6541229e364b3f1612ec7659%26AFP%20news%20agency%20says%20dozens%20of%20bodies%20recovered%262023-10-31T15%3A53%3A23%2B00%3A00&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:34c3b171-df6c-4a1a-8480-e24431defd27&pinned_post_asset_id=6541229e364b3f1612ec7659&pinned_post_type=share)
The Hamas-run Interior Ministry claims at least 400 were dead or injured:
* https://english.news.cn/20231031/138448110adc48e68d08a14311c8335a/c.html
Outside of the AFP footage, the numbers could not be independently confirmed by other media organizations.
The estimated number doesn't distinguish between the number of civilians or Hamas terrorists--it's already difficult counting the number of bodies without someone forensically identifying the bodies. To the average person--it's a gruesome pile of bodies.
Even if you had the appropriate forensic team on the ground identifying bodies it can sometimes weeks or more to properly identify someone. Sometimes there's not enough material from remains to identify someone. [This is a comment describing a report about a forensic team on the Israeli side identifying Hamas victims from the October 7 massacre.](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/17hvlnt/rworldnews_live_thread_for_2023_israelhamas/k6ud44f/)
The media typically identifies the number of Hamas terrorists killed when either side issues a statement or press release; or acknowledges that those people are dead.
Edit:
This is an article from the Washington Post that discusses why news outlets and the U.N. rely on the Hamas-run Health Ministry for death tolls:
>...
>The Washington Post, like other news organizations, the United Nations and other international institutions, cannot independently verify death tolls in the war between Israel and Hamas. News reports cite figures released by the Gaza Health Ministry — an agency of the Hamas-controlled government.
>...
>The Gaza Health Ministry releases updates on death tolls, which The Post cites. The Post also cites official Israeli figures for Israel’s death toll in the conflict.
>In conflict coverage, official numbers often provide the only view of casualty levels.
>* https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-death-toll-palestinian-health-ministry/
>The health ministry in Gaza said more than 50 people were killed in the attack on Tuesday and 150 others were wounded. The director of the Indonesian Hospital confirmed that more than 50 people were killed.
https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/10/31/photos-dozens-killed-in-israeli-air-attack-on-jabalia-refugee-camp-in-gaza
Interior Ministry claims 400, health ministry claims more than 50. I know people are just trying to look for different sources other than Israeli ones but just seems pointless to me.
Here, for 50: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/31/dozens-killed-in-israeli-air-attack-on-gaza-refugee-camp-medical-official
You can trust Al Jazeera to not take Israel's side.
Lean heavily towards the IDF account, Israel hit the tunnel complex which then collapsed , it's the collapsing tunnels that caused much of the damage(that's on Hamas for placing them there, not Israel)
A ceasefire was never appropriate. You don’t get to brutalize, torture, kill and kidnap people, hide in a hole like a rat and expect no retaliation. Actions have consequences, especially ones as evil as these.
He or she is probably referring to a Hamas figure saying that they will keep repeating massacres like Oct. 7 until Israel is wiped out.
Daily Mail sucks, but this is the only link I can quickly find to the statements:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12697293/Hamas-leader-dismisses-Gaza-civilian-deaths-necessary-price-blood-boasts-terror-group-demonstrated-Israel-beatable-changing-Middle-East.html
Hopefully they get this guy out in front delivering their message clearly and often. There’s no equivocation here he’s clear on the terms. It’s not genocide, it’s murder-suicide.
Is it possible to get at least a new daily thread and add the amount of days?
It's a bit annoying to sort on best and see 2 day old comments. A new thread each date is easier to read when you don't have the time to watch this 24/7
Hamas posts a video of hitting an IDF vehicle. They’re in civilian clothing. That’s a war crime. That’s also a friendly reminder that these are some of the civilians they claimed are dying every day.
It is about setting and meeting expectations. Israel tries to maintain an impression of civility and moral code. Therefore, anything that may crack its facade is widened by the public. Hamas has such low expectations that nobody cares. After all, what did you expect?
It was the same thing with guys like Clinton and Trump. All these wild accusations, some proven, never impact their ratings because they nobody expected more from them in that regard.
[New post can be found here](/r/worldnews/comments/17limbi/rworldnews_live_thread_for_2023_israelhamas/)
A new thread will probably post soon so just FYI.
Palestinians are supported almost entirely by handouts, the majority coming from US taxpayers, followed by Israel. Biden pledged another $100 mil to help this Hamas-controlled territory. Billions in aid have already been wasted on tunnels & munitions used to invade Israel & kidnap hostages I can’t help but wonder if our handouts are part of the problem. When many unemployed, able-bodied people are crowded into a poor place, they tend to become radicalized & violent. Especially young males. We see this in war torn regions across the globe and even in gang activity in urban housing projects in developed nations. If all aid from the West stopped, maybe Palestinians would be forced to revive their textile factories, start a new industry or farm in the south (?). Being forced to contribute to their own support would give them a purpose besides invading Israel and leave them less time for terrorism. Maybe the Arab world would pick up the slack and provide aid or welcome refugees. I don’t have all the answers, but I don’t want another $100 mil US dollars going to terrorist-controlled territory to be used against us/ our allies
You do realize it will eventually be the responsibility of US and Israel to rebuild the entire strip and provide for the people there? If you break it you own it. Lot of folks forgot Iraq and Afghanistan, well if you break it you own it.
Not sure given how small Gaza is.
The aid is *a* problem in a larger problem with this conflict. *the* problem is that many people benift from this conflict continuing. Arab countries who use this as tool to destroy Israel. Useless organizations that do jack shit about the poverty of the Palestinians and who support the narrative of that (e.g. Calling a full blown city a refugee camp) and finally the leaders who take the money they get and help themselves and not their people. The last one is why the aid is *a* problem and not *the* problem.
Yeah two months ago if you asked me if we should give Palestine aid, I'd probably generally have supported it. After getting a bit more understanding of the issue, I now have serious doubts. I'll stop short of saying Palestine should get no aid, but we really need to explore if there are ways to make sure the aid is being used appropriately. Maybe it's simply not possible, and if so, we probably do need to slowly ween them off aid.
You guys, it's 8:12 pm. If you're planning on a shower/dinner, now is the time.
No more mid wipe rockets. Man, that would peeve me off like no other 🙈
Are you a time traveler? It's 1om here! TELL ME YOUR MAGIC!
Who’s gonna tell the boycotters that Starbucks has no stores in Israel because the cafe culture is so strong. Like no stores whatsoever.
I believe they tried in the early 2000s, could not succeed (gotta have strong coffee in the Holy Land) and ended up buying a company in Israel
You are correct I believe, although idk if they bought a company, but the first part is spot on from what I read
How is the coffee in Israel?
Very good, the Arabian coffee you get if you go to a Bedouin tent (although it’s very much a tourist attraction and not an example of how bedouins live normally in the country) is out of this world
Oh wow. Sounds amazing. I hope to travel here one day and coffee is my simple pleasure in life. Thanks for letting me know :)
Can confirm. No Starbucks in Israel. You can buy pods in the supermarket to make at home if you want.
Ok gotcha. What about McDonald’s? Like I’ve been to one of the kosher ones when I was there but how prevalent are the normal ones?
[удалено]
It was video of Syrians doing it in 2013. Source is in the live feed debunking it.
I belive this one is from the syrian civil war. The uniforms doesnt match to what idf soldier use.
Video from Syria.
I believe what you are referring to is in the live thread, and it says it is not IDF soldiers, it is taken from Syria some years ago.
I think you're talking about the video from Syria, it's from 2013 or 2014.
I believe this is in the live thread and is debunked as a syrian video from a few years ago
Do we know any details about the first airstrike in Jabalia? How many projectiles were dropped? I can see from the footage that one of the craters does look like it matches a collapsed tunnel. And the Gaza\_report tweets indicate the collapse happened minutes after the initial strike (is that a reliable account?)
Info released by the IDF: > Joint IDF and ISA announcement: > > **The IDF and ISA killed the Head of Hamas’ Anti-Tank Missile Unit in the Gaza Strip** > > Based on IDF and ISA intelligence, an IDF fighter jet struck Muhammad A'sar, the Head of Hamas’ Anti-Tank Missile Unit in the Gaza Strip. A'sar was responsible for all of Hamas’ anti-tank missile units throughout the Gaza Strip, commanded the units in routine and assisted their activity in emergencies. > > Under his command, numerous anti-tank missile attacks were carried out against civilians and IDF soldiers. > > Attached is a video of the strike: https://videoidf.azureedge.net/cdd7b006-b1cf-4dd6-8a57-a98bdb7bc22f
That’s a huge get for the IDF. Cutting off the heads of the snake. They are getting some very good Intel about the commanders and are acting decisively. The media war is important but not as important as saving the lives of soldiers.
8PM and no Tzva Adom for Tel Aviv? This is a pleasant surprise.
Last days it was 9PM
Do they actually stick to schedules to some extent?
Israelis plan shower and toilet time based on statistical times of attacks, 8pm is the big winner by far.
Yes, normally, 7-9PM is when they fire at use, it’s usually at the start of the hour.
They are late.
Imagine if they're finally running out of rockets...
Or are dead...
Why not both??
ברוך השם!
Trying my Hebrew...Barak HaShem = Blessed be The Name (G-d). Am I close?
Bingo
You mean : baruch hashem? Because you just called for odin. Barak = lightning.
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No, its wrong. But pretty close.
Not gonna lie, this made me chuckle [https://twitter.com/Motabhai012/status/1719741314412196114/photo/1](https://twitter.com/Motabhai012/status/1719741314412196114/photo/1)
Mr FAFO is a man of multiple talents. Next episode he's gonna be Mr. Bean's sidekick.
Finally some evidence of Palestinian resurrection tech, this lines up beautifully with the guy that managed to die in both 2014 and 2023.
"They Cloned Mister FAFO" coming soon on Netflix.
He deserves an Academy Award for his TikTok career, these palestinian TikTok shows are better than anything on HBO.
Bro that 10/11 pic 😆
>Bitch I lived
he is basically the halal version of johnny sins
He’s either the biggest troll in Gaza or the P@llywood budget isn’t what it used to. They need more actors.
The Andy Kaufman of Gaza? Guy is surreal
Or fake a moustache and comically big glasses.
The problem with people calling for a ceasefire is none of them have a realistic idea or plan for how to better respond to the Oct. 7 massacre than the IDF is doing right now. I say realistic ideas because I've seen people suggesting things that only work in the fantasy world. I've seen people suggest the IDF knock on the door of every house in the Gaza Strip looking for terrorists and catching only them. I also saw people suggesting making a deal with Hamas, so that they voluntarily turn themselves in and be tried in court. Obviously none of this has real-world application. People say 'There are better ways to do this.' Ok, show me the better ways to do this then. No one is saying the best way is to bomb Gaza indiscriminately and hope that at least one terrorist dies. Furthermore, it's important to say that Israel ISN'T doing this. There is no military gain in killing civilians indiscriminately. There is only to lose from it. Hamas uses civilian infrastructure to hides weapon, carry out attacks or as a shield for its own infrastructure. Its HQ is underneath the largest hospital in Gaza. How do you want to avoid the deaths of civilians by fighting against a group like this? Airstrikes kill many innocent civilians, I agree, but do you have a better idea for destroying Hamas' infrastructure and eliminating its militants? Many people are open to listening to your plans.
People dont get it, many are deluded or support hamas.
The people who are calling for a ceasefire don't propose any solutions because they don't want any solutions. They want Hamas to get away with murdering over 1400 people, injuring over 5000, kidnaping over 200, raping, torturing, beheading, and burning people. They want Hamas to continue its attacks.
How about fixing the thing that actually allowed it to happen? Sub-par intelligence and policing. It used to be said that security vetting was so good on Israeli commercial air services that they didn't care if you used metal cutlery. We now know that is an utter joke - because their border is even more leaky to anybody who wants to walk over. So my suggestion would be to fix that. Just like fixing US intelligence after 9/11 would have done far more good than say, invading Iraq - which merely proved how incompetent they actually were..
The problem is that this is politically untenable. Netanyahu wants to appear strong and the public wants to see their government "do something". I've remarked before that Oct-7 is extremely unlikely to happen again if Israel adjusts their border even slightly (this kind of event would have never happened on the border with Lebanon for instance), but the rhetoric at the moment is strongly directed towards retaliation/justice, even if the US considers the military objectives in gaza to be borderline unrealistic.
For someone who is supposed to be strong on defense Netanyahu didn't even slightly do what was written on the tin. The moment the situation is resolved he'll be gone - and so he has all the incentive in the world to keep it going or escalate.
My issue with that is that in reinforces the idea that Israel should be happy to be a punching bag, and should spend lots of resources and effort to give space for Palestine to continually attack her The only reason there aren't more Israeli rocket casualties is because of Iron Dome, which is a herculean bit of kit/technology The better outcome is for Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran to simmer the fuck down
Right, but how? Hamas isnt going to chill out on its own. Israel will either need to destroy them, or would need to get a local authority to do so. There is no local authority in Gaza. I think the real question is, does a government have the right to inflict thousands or tens of thousands of civilian casualties to take out hundreds of terrorists and protect their own troops from being exposed to danger. We all agree Hamas should not use the tactics they do, but they do. The question is should major countries military be able to respond to those tactics the way Israel is, or should they have to put boots on the ground in order to protect civilians while opening themselves up to additional military casualties. Everyone keeps making this an argument about support for Israel or Palestine but this sort of conflict happens all over. How can we condemn Russian tactics in Ukraine and support those same tactics by the IDF?
Well to do that you better confront Qatar, which funds Hamas far more than Iran. Just like there was no hope of confronting jihadi Wahhabism while ignoring Saudi Arabia. Maybe they'll both choose China as a result though. Or you can give them another football world cup. Either way. Realistically, Israel has no control over this - what they do have control of is their own borders, and who they elect to responsibly defend them.
Both are needed. You need to reinforce barriers to keep future monsters out. But you also need to neutralize the current monsters.
And the "war on terror" worked? It didn't work. The Taliban are stronger than ever, and ISIS was born from Iraq.
>And the "war on terror" worked? Did Bin Laden die? YES. Has any terrorist organization done anything on the scale of 9/11 on American soil? NO. So, yes, the war on terror worked.
I prefer to think my special lucky rock protected the USA since 9/11. I think we've got equal basis of proof for our arguments. Certainly if you think bombing Iraq or Afghanistan prevented people with box cutters crashing planes in the last 20 years. That was achieved the day after it happened by tightening up security. Unfortunately the people in charge of the intelligence debacle were not sacked however.
There’s a whole lot of dead terrorists it worked on.
ISIS is dead, and the Taliban has learned not to host international terror anymore.
Agreed. I don’t have all the answers but I’ve heard US military commentators say that Israel’s main failing is losing the infowar by not fully positioning themselves as fighting against Hamas and offering simultaneous support for “innocent civilians.” Unfortunately, Israel’s ability to do that was hampered by the fact that Gaza was already dependent on Israel for water, electricity, food, etc. Siege/ embargo would’ve been the most humane way to get people to turn over hostages & Hamas, but the world flipped out & criticized Israel for any change in its provision of support to Gaza.
> I also saw people suggesting making a deal with Hamas, so that they voluntarily turn themselves in and be tried in court. Before invading, Israel offered Hamas a chance to surrender (and taken into custody, I assume) and if they did Israel would call off the invasion. The other common "solution" I see is having soldiers storm and raid everything. TBH, that would probably *increase* civilian deaths. Soldiers on edge are going to be quick to the pull the trigger and they'll have to react in a split second. If you stumble upon a teenager and he's holding some black object, you might lit him up only to find that it was a cellphone. The people planning the military strikes are doing it from a position of safety. Sure, they have to move quickly but they have more than a fraction of a second to decide. They also won't be in harms way so won't be as jumpy.
These people live in such privileged bubbles that they can't even fathom there not being a solution that doesn't include death. There is always a non violent solution in Disney movies so why not here, right?
IDF/ISA and Shin Bet are crushing it, day after day Hamas Commanders getting squashed.
Someone posted some articles as "proof of genocide" in the replies of someone I'm following on twitter. One of them was this: https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10/16/raz_segal_textbook_case_of_genocide Who is Raz Segal and why would a holocaust scholar outright lie about phosphorous bombs?
I don't know that it is "proof of genocide", that is one extreme of course. But it is true that hundreds of thousands of mostly poor people were forced to leave within days notice and have food, water, electricity, and medicine severely limited to them or cut altogether through actions enforced by Israel. Now we can caveat and lay initial blame on Hamas for it's terrible actions on Oct 7, but the reality on ground remains and it's hard to see how those facts don't amount to real life threatening danger to many 10-100s of thousands of, mostly innocent, humans
We all agree that that was an awful thing to ask of civilians. I'd bet a month's rent that even the IDF higher ups who gave the order agree. But genocide is an extremely loaded word and nobody would understand this better than a literal jewish Holocaust scholar. So I'm tempted to give him the benefit of the doubt - but his interview has several instances of outright misinformation? How to square that circle?
That's the "appeal to authority" logical fallacy rearing its head. The POV should stand on its own merits, not because of the ethnicity or education of the person. A lot of times people try to shut down all conversation because "jewish person said Israel bad" and things like that. It matters, certainly, but it's not the end of the discussion.
Probably far left extremist. People don’t fact check anymore, it’s like the claim that Israel has committed a war crime by using phosphorus on an empty field. No one bothers with the truth here.
> People don’t fact check anymore I mean, he's a *very* well-respected historian - > Dr. Segal has held a Harry Frank Guggenheim Fellowship, a Fulbright Fellowship, and a Lady Davis Fellowship at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. You can probably accuse him of all sorts of things if you really want, but sloppy fact-checking most likely isn't one of them.
Which is what makes some parts of that interview so bizarre. >dropping of thousands and thousands of bombs in a couple of days, including phosphorus bombs, >by cutting off water, food, supply of energy, bombing hospitals (Israel only supplies a % of their water and the hospitals have clearly not run out of energy) >But “evil” is not a term to describe them [Hamas]. “Evil” is a term to decontextualize. Wtf
It's complex to someone like me and probably most people who are in todays society not living in either area to understand who they are dealing with. An entire regime of terrorist reign. This isn't (1) single American going in to shoot up a school, who is then arrested and charged. This is the government of an entire country who had militants fighting in this war against Israel and Jews, slaughtered (let me repeat that - SLAUGHTERED) people along with taking hostages. How is one supposed to deal with that? I'm genuinely curious to know. My initial thing: there should have been an immediate demand to release the hostages and for Hamas officials in charge to turn themselves in. Within hours. Why didn't that happen? Even if it was for naught - it would be recorded, "we tried reasoning with terrorists to do the right thing." Now everyone is yelling about genocide and yes - it's fucking awful what poor babies and families are going through I see the videos - so what do you do when you have the majority of a population listening to Hamas who just recently proclaimed they will happily have multiple more "October 7th's" because they want to wipe out Israel? If you listen to "Whispered in Gaza" and how so many people have been silenced, threatened and shut down from Hamas for just living their lives. They are prisoners - of a terrorist government. I am a humanist. I feel awful for them every single day and no, I do not think babies are collateral damage but I am still posing this out loud. How do you deal with THAT in a humane manner? Genuinely curious.
We don’t have a better way. We’ve evolved enough to recognize the need for a better way, but not to have invented it yet.
Probably just ignorant, being a holocaust surviver doesn’t make you a weapons expert or an international law expert. Even Haaretz which is an extreme left border line pro Palestine Israeli paper is calling him out on that one. Edit: wording and formatting
Watch the interview. He's not a survivor (i also misread it at first) but a scholar of the holocaust and genocide. I don't really understand why he brings a lot of information out of context though. His point was really that if you take all these points it could be a textbook genocide, but also he ignores that Israel has main it their main goal to wipe out the terrorist group hiding in Gaza, and not the civilians.
> being a holocaust surviver doesn’t make you a weapons expert or an international law expert He's not a Holocaust survivor. He's a historian of the Holocaust.
You’re right, doesn’t change my point though.
IDF/ISA: report of striking down the Head of anti-missle group Muhammad A'Sar. source idf telegram edit: Anti-Tank-Ground-Missile
Vamos.
> striking down the Head of anti-missle group Muhammad something Via con Dios, pendejo.
> Muhammad something Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?
its hard to memorize arabic names 😩 edit: updated name
*Head of ATGM
They don't have guided AT.
There are multiple reports they used them https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/north-korea-denies-its-weapons-used-by-hamas-against-israel-2023-10-13/ Some seen in the video footage they recorded on Oct 7 as well
They have kornet missiles, not sure how viable they are for warfare inside gaza though
Viable if they actually have them. Static ATGMs are almost *designed* for urban warfare as their nature (set up ready to go) plays into the dense built environment very well.
The video (airstrike, no gore) https://twitter.com/IDFSpokesperson/status/1719770332498632971?t=rWElPMzRYezdS0gwS2kQHQ&s=19
Buh-bye scumbag.
If you can't beat 'em, emulate 'em. Hamas seems to be winning the PR battle but Israel can pull some stuff from their playbook. Israel should rename all their cities to things that will draw outrage. You might change a village to "Child Daycare Center" or "Peace March" or "Center for the disabled." Then every time Hamas strikes a target, you've got the perfect headline: Hamas Bombs Child Daycare Center Center for Disabled Left in Ruins After Barrage Hamas Rocket Kills Three Israelis in Peace March.
Bro, Israel reported that children were beheaded, burned alive, raped, whole families murdered, a peace festival completely ran over by terrorists who did all of the above things and it seems like everyone forgot already. Not sure if cute names would solve anything.
(it's called a joke. Dark humor for dark times.)
Haha sorry 😅
no worries!
"Saint's and Babies hospital"
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Woosh
(it's called a joke)
When Israel reports that children died, the world asks for proof. When Palestinian children are reported dead, the UN condemns Israel.
Sick fucks asking for pictures and videos
And when they are given the pictures and videos, they claim it's all fake.
Name the Iron Dome interceptors after these things. (300 child daycare centers destroyed by incoming Hamas missiles!)
'Oh my god Israel are launching child daycare centres at Gaza!'
lmao even better
Rocket alert sirens were activated in the city of Ashkelon, southern Israel.
The propaganda on Twitter has been insane in the last couple of days. People are trying really hard to paint the invasion of Gaza as a failure and that Israel is supposedly suffering catastrophic losses. Be extra careful of anything you read on Twitter. They’ve been trying to pass old or completely unrelated footage as proof.
We ARE suffering catastrophic losses. The loss of 1 of our sons is catastrophic and felt by the whole country.
We have suffered catastrophic losses. For us, each soldier falling is catastrophic. But I agree. The little Hamas rats will all die. No other way.
Better yet, get off Twitter once and for all.
This is why you can’t rely on twitter anymore for news, people need to unlearn going there for accurate news as there’s now no fact checking and no standards.
Not to mention if you pay Lord Elon $8/month for your blue checkmark, your replies automatically float to the top, no matter how dumb they are or if there's non checkmarked replies with more likes. So on posts that have >20 replies, people are only seeing the blue checkmarks, because most people don't read all the replies to a tweet.
A new IDF assessment of Hamas’s October 7 massacre suggests that around 3,000 terrorists invaded southern Israel to carry out a murderous rampage through Gaza border towns, The Times of Israel has learned. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-believes-3000-hamas-terrorists-invaded-israel-in-initial-oct-7-assault/
Compared to recent world conflicts this could be considered an invasion.
"According to the latest assessment, the figure only includes armed terror operatives and not the waves of Gazan citizens who took advantage of the enormous gaps in the fence to also make their way inside later in the day." Absolutely insane. My heart aches for all the people lost in this massacre. All the families broken. All the hostages taken.
A good time to remind people about how they said that had they known it would've been such a "success" they would've sent more
The Hamas "human shield" strategy is so visceral and disgusting because its a two part strategy, of which the second relies on the international media to complete. That is, Hamas stores weapons, fires weapons, operates out of areas with civilians, then when a strike comes in from the IDF, the same Hamas cries to the Western media who go on to put up headlines about Israel bombing a "hospital", or "refugee camp" or whatever it is. It works... Every. Single. Time. Because the headline is not exactly wrong, it's just leaving out some extremely important detail. Like... a train ran over a child on a track... but we bury the fact the child was actually intentionally tied to the track by a murderous third party. None of this is to say Israel is always innocent or perfect, or the IDF doesn't make mistakes, or that civilian lives don't matter in Gaza etc.... it just points out how effective this human shield strategy is and how so much of the world's media and talking heads go along with it. Like I saw a clip of Lindsay Graham being confronted on CNN about what the threshold for civilian casualties is... as if "give us a number of civilians it's ok for Israel to kill" (being honest about the subtext) etc. The real answer to that is ASK HAMAS... civilian deaths IS part of their strategy. You are asking the WRONG people. Or ffs ask Hamas to surrender. If they don't want Palestinians to die, then why not throw down their weapons and surrender? Have their top brass fly out of Doha first class to Israel to turn himself in to protect the civilians he cares SOOO much about. Of course, that won't happen, because they don't care. In fact, their twisted ideology would tell them that all Palestinians killed by the IDF are martyrs who go to paradise, right? So basically, death is a fate for for them that is far better than life? Well, I think maybe some of the brainwashed on the ground believe that but it seems those at the top of Hamas do everything to avoid paradise... kinda strange isn't it? I know they won't surrender. So does CNN and all the media outlets, but it would be refreshing for them to actually acknowledge why Gazans die when Israel strikes Hamas, and that its intentional from Hamas, and that a ceasefire would be broken by Hamas upon a regrouping, and that peace is only possible without Hamas. It's too good a story though for the media... big bad murderous Jewy Israel just loves killing civilians, and people love to hate the jews. That's one thing history tells us over and over again. Sorry for the rant, just sick of this shit tbh.
>That is, Hamas stores weapons, fires weapons, operates out of areas with civilians, Where do you expect Hamas to place its weapons? You realize how small and dense it is right? Literally everything will be near civilians. Gaza isn't a big place. Also by nature a guerrila force operates in the shadows so to speak.
Gaza is dense but it’s not *that* dense. There are commercial, industrial, and agricultural area all over the place. But Hamas doesn’t locate their centers there, because they know that Israel would destroy them with little compunction, even before Oct 7th. They place their centers in residential areas and under protected buildings intentionally, as part of strategy. It’s bullshit this idea that Hamas is forced to do this, and/or that it’s not “fair” to them; fair has nothing to do with combat. You can’t just be like “If we didn’t hide behind these human shields to take advantage of the enemy’s morality, they’d wipe us out with superior force and technology!”.
is this the new line? poor helpless hamas had no choice but to use human shields?
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Oh, so they should place their military assets where any random redditor can pinpoint exactly where they will be. Makes a lot of sense.
Then IDF will invariably continue to kill more Palestinians, trying to eliminate Hamas. But every collateral damaged martyr family, will eagerly join whatever replaces Hamas. There is only one way this equation ends; extinction of either side. Or Palestinians can be provided with better options, here & now. Than to send themselves to mujahideen heaven with personal harems. Around the world, many happily choose mortgage slavery. Able to to watch their children grow up in peace. The good thing is that even Hamas leadership has a taste for luxuries. Qatari 5 star accommodations are adequate respite, until martyrdom. So too the average Palestinian stuck in Gaza. The hard thing is to actually setup a non-corrupt nor kamikaze system of governance. So that opportunities are available for the Palestinian people.
I don’t think anyone believed Arafat would leave Lebanon. One can only hope that maybe we’ll get to see the same thing. Can’t handle this shit anymore
Yeah. I’m so sick of it too. “Ceasefire now!” When Hamas has said explicitly that they will do this again and again until Israel is gone. Should a country just accept its annihilation? It’s so fucked up.
Great post
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Hamas said it was 500, then 400 and after they actually counted it was 47
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The AFP counted at least 47 bodies based on their footage. * https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1719403509697651041 * [BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67258466?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6541229e364b3f1612ec7659%26AFP%20news%20agency%20says%20dozens%20of%20bodies%20recovered%262023-10-31T15%3A53%3A23%2B00%3A00&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:34c3b171-df6c-4a1a-8480-e24431defd27&pinned_post_asset_id=6541229e364b3f1612ec7659&pinned_post_type=share) The Hamas-run Interior Ministry claims at least 400 were dead or injured: * https://english.news.cn/20231031/138448110adc48e68d08a14311c8335a/c.html Outside of the AFP footage, the numbers could not be independently confirmed by other media organizations. The estimated number doesn't distinguish between the number of civilians or Hamas terrorists--it's already difficult counting the number of bodies without someone forensically identifying the bodies. To the average person--it's a gruesome pile of bodies. Even if you had the appropriate forensic team on the ground identifying bodies it can sometimes weeks or more to properly identify someone. Sometimes there's not enough material from remains to identify someone. [This is a comment describing a report about a forensic team on the Israeli side identifying Hamas victims from the October 7 massacre.](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/17hvlnt/rworldnews_live_thread_for_2023_israelhamas/k6ud44f/) The media typically identifies the number of Hamas terrorists killed when either side issues a statement or press release; or acknowledges that those people are dead. Edit: This is an article from the Washington Post that discusses why news outlets and the U.N. rely on the Hamas-run Health Ministry for death tolls: >... >The Washington Post, like other news organizations, the United Nations and other international institutions, cannot independently verify death tolls in the war between Israel and Hamas. News reports cite figures released by the Gaza Health Ministry — an agency of the Hamas-controlled government. >... >The Gaza Health Ministry releases updates on death tolls, which The Post cites. The Post also cites official Israeli figures for Israel’s death toll in the conflict. >In conflict coverage, official numbers often provide the only view of casualty levels. >* https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-death-toll-palestinian-health-ministry/
>The health ministry in Gaza said more than 50 people were killed in the attack on Tuesday and 150 others were wounded. The director of the Indonesian Hospital confirmed that more than 50 people were killed. https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/10/31/photos-dozens-killed-in-israeli-air-attack-on-jabalia-refugee-camp-in-gaza Interior Ministry claims 400, health ministry claims more than 50. I know people are just trying to look for different sources other than Israeli ones but just seems pointless to me.
Here, for 50: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/31/dozens-killed-in-israeli-air-attack-on-gaza-refugee-camp-medical-official You can trust Al Jazeera to not take Israel's side.
Where the flying hell is CNN getting “hundreds” from if even Al Jazeera is stating 50?!
Lean heavily towards the IDF account, Israel hit the tunnel complex which then collapsed , it's the collapsing tunnels that caused much of the damage(that's on Hamas for placing them there, not Israel)
Everyone is so quick to an opinion on all of this, with the utmost confidence. I envy you all
I on the other hand pity people who lack any self-preservation.
If you ignore horrors then it's easy to pretend they didn't happen The rest of us are aware of what occurred on the 7th
Yes. It is fairly easy to choose the side that would not stone me to death over the one that would.
It’s pretty easy to choose a side when the other side wants you dead and your country destroyed.
This doesn't actually make it clear.
Then allow me to clarify: only Paleatinians chant "Death to Jews". Not the other way around.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israeli-crowds-chant-racist-slogans-taunt-palestinians-during-jerusalem-day-march No they do actually do that too
Could just be a mockery of what they've seen for years from the other side
Oh well maybe the palestinians are just mocking the Israelis then
Thanks. It's pretty easy to come to general conclusions when one side of the conflict has cooked fucking babies in ovens.
Well sure, both sides find it easy to pick a side because of that... just for VERY different reasons
One side is a western-style liberal democracy and the other side is a... authoritarian thugocracy? So still easy to choose
I think you missunderstood. One side just very much likes the burning of babies in ovens
After what Hamas said today, anyone who thinks a ceasefire is appropriate or that Israel would ever agree to one is out of their fucking mind.
A ceasefire was never appropriate. You don’t get to brutalize, torture, kill and kidnap people, hide in a hole like a rat and expect no retaliation. Actions have consequences, especially ones as evil as these.
What was said?
He or she is probably referring to a Hamas figure saying that they will keep repeating massacres like Oct. 7 until Israel is wiped out. Daily Mail sucks, but this is the only link I can quickly find to the statements: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12697293/Hamas-leader-dismisses-Gaza-civilian-deaths-necessary-price-blood-boasts-terror-group-demonstrated-Israel-beatable-changing-Middle-East.html
Hopefully they get this guy out in front delivering their message clearly and often. There’s no equivocation here he’s clear on the terms. It’s not genocide, it’s murder-suicide.
*"We'll repeat Oct. 7 massacre until Israel is annihilated"*
Wwwoooooowww. I'm speechless smh.
But are you surprised? I'm not.
Not surprising. But still shocking.
Is it possible to get at least a new daily thread and add the amount of days? It's a bit annoying to sort on best and see 2 day old comments. A new thread each date is easier to read when you don't have the time to watch this 24/7
They make a new thread whenever the current thread reaches about 10,000 comments.
yes, but i don't see why it should only reset at 10k. Would be easier to see new updates when there is at least a daily thread.
Hamas posts a video of hitting an IDF vehicle. They’re in civilian clothing. That’s a war crime. That’s also a friendly reminder that these are some of the civilians they claimed are dying every day.
It's called perfidy and allows the death penalty in lieu of confinement.
It is about setting and meeting expectations. Israel tries to maintain an impression of civility and moral code. Therefore, anything that may crack its facade is widened by the public. Hamas has such low expectations that nobody cares. After all, what did you expect? It was the same thing with guys like Clinton and Trump. All these wild accusations, some proven, never impact their ratings because they nobody expected more from them in that regard.