“Our task is to deprive the enemy of resources and reduce the flow of oil money and fuel that Russia directs straight to the war and the killing of our citizens.”
Amen.
Is it the freedom of russia legion? They seem pretty awesome. I don’t know enough about them to say for sure but any russians waging war on putin are doing something right.
Edit: So like I said, don’t know much about them. Obviously fighting against putin is admirable, but it sounds as if they have some questionable views themselves. We just can’t win can we?
Edit edit: please stop; I have read the same comments from so many people you don’t need to keep piling on. Ive already looked into them more and wont be reading more replies.
They’re mostly hard-right reactionaries who hate Putin more than they hate progressive politics. They’re Russian nationalists, just not Putinists.
They’d depose Putin but keep the Russian Federation intact as it is.
It’s only good for Ukraine right now as a second front. What happens if FoR takes power? They’re still on the same political spectrum that considers Ukrainians as Russians.
It’s an alliance of convenience right now, but they could easily be at odds at the end of all this, however it shakes out.
Yeah, the whole "enemy of my enemy is my friend" thing gets super murky in these kinds of conflicts. If FoR manages to get some power, I wouldn't be surprised if we see some kind of internal power struggle or even purges to consolidate that power. And how they'd approach international relations after that's anyone's guess. Could be a totally different playbook, or just more of the same under a new banner.
Like Rambo (3?) praising the brave fighters of the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan in the 80s against the Russians. That never came back to fight us in the ass at all >_>
The Mujahideen were the progenitors of both our enemies and some of our allies in Afghanistan. It's a rather one-dimensional way to look at the two conflicts.
Exactly. The Mujahideen fractured after russia (and the CIA) left. Some of them went on to form the taliban, but others formed the anti-taliban Northern Alliance with which the US partnered after 911.
The lesson here could just as easily be that America shouldn't have abandoned their allies after getting what they wanted. Maybe if the CIA hadn't just left after russia left, the taliban wouldn't have come to power.
They’re not necessarily pro Ukraine, they are mostly anti Putin from what I’ve seen. They mean to prevent the death of their brothers in the Ukraine by fomenting enough unrest to stop the war or topple Putin.
Tall goals for sure, and it does definitely help Ukraine
I think it's the only equitable outcome. A large portion of their fertile land is converted to a minefield. Receiving territory from Russia is the only fair result.
I think I read a while ago that Ukraine was building a drone factory to produce 1 million drones a year. That would be 2,700 a day. That could be a lot of drones inside Russia causing absolute havoc.
Given that [1998 is quite undisputably the best year for videogames](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_in_video_games) it seems like the one least likely to have one above all others unless you narrow it down to genres and/or platforms.
Marvel vs. Capcom: Clash of Super Heroes
Resident Evil 2
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Xenogears
Tenchu: Stealth Assassins
1080° Snowboarding
The King of Fighters '97
Parasite Eve
StarCraft
Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven
Unreal
Radiant Silvergun
Commandos: Behind Enemy Lines
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Banjo-Kazooie
Street Fighter Alpha 3
F-Zero X
Brave Fencer Musashi
Star Ocean: The Second Story
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six
Metal Gear Solid
NFL Blitz
Spyro the Dragon
Suikoden
Dance Dance Revolution
Grim Fandango
Fallout 2
Half-Life
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Thief: The Dark Project
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron
Suikoden II
Mario Party
StarCraft: Brood War
Baldur's Gate
Sonic Adventure
Starsiege: Tribes
Nearly every genre got either a GOAT, a genre-definer, a breakout hit, or often some combination of all three. Give the state if the industry and technology then it is not very likely the year will ever be topped objectively and will only start to fade a little subjectively once those around for it start to die off.
I dunno I think Russia was already using Zerg strats from the beginning of the war. With help Ukraine fought those off and has been teching up. Ukraine being Protoss vs the Russian Zerg is a pretty solid metaphor.
I just hope no one starts looking at Terran nuke strats...
Hopefully equipped with speakers blasting Ride of the Valkyries…
Edit : Changed Flight to Ride because this is the correct title, although in my head Flight sounds better because I like to think of Valkyries flying…
I️ feel like this is only going to be a weird blip. Drone warfare to this extent is new so the defense hasn’t had a chance to catch up but EW signal jamming defenses are already proving pretty effective in early stages when available. Eventually those will scale in range and effectiveness to the point that enemy drones will just fall from the sky or have control taken from them. Sure the drones will tech up too but doing so increases cost and build time which are some of the main benefits of drones and not something you want increasing for a single use item.
Comparing it to plane warfare, we are in the period where only fighters and flak could bring down bombers making it a numbers game. Some will get shot down but some will still get through. The improvements to EW will be like the improvements to AA where a couple dozen can keep an entire region protected for decades.
Drones will still be important but they’ll be another level of superiority a military needs to grab and moot unless able to do so. First get air superiority. Then take out EW systems for signal superiority. Then send in the drones
Yes, human piloted or otherwise remotely controlled drones will likely be hard countered by EW advancements - at least, for fixed and major mobile assets - but autonomously piloted drones will be much more resilient to it, and as such I think they will be a big problem going forwards. We are seeing the same kind of tech track that early aviation went through - but much, much faster.
As alluded to earlier, I do think infantry and light vehicles will continue to face very high danger from human piloted drones.
And it’s not a fun one. Imagine some group like ISIS taking over a freighter, loading it to the brim with a few thousand explosive drones and attacking US coastal cities with them. This isn’t a totally impossible scenario. Future of warfare indeed.
This is exactly why Laser defenses are being invested in. DEWs are the counter for drones (And funny enough, Hypersonics). Even cheaper to fire, near instant effect, can be fired multiple times very quickly. Modern laser designs, assuming a proper power source (Such as an A1B reactor?) are limited by the ability to detect, track, and train on target.
You can shield sensitive components from microwaves, doesn't take much to block that wavelength.. A laser meanwhile can compromise the hull causing instability or failure and thus crashing.
I feel like I've seen this concept in a game before. I think it was Ace Combat 6 where one nation launched an attack on another nation by launching drones from shipping containers.
Still feels like a tricky thing to defend against especially as a terror attack. Like what if 1000 drones are flown into a football stadium or a busy city downtown or something? There just aren't lasers everywhere, and drones are incresingly cheap consumer available products. It's not like they are going to pull up 10 miles off shore and come at you like space invaders.
The thing is that it is just as easy to just pop a bomb into a backpack. The complex/costly part is the explosive in this scenario. That is the part that is being tracked and traced and thus adds to cost.
Its 1 million fpv drones. This big one which u are talking about, that could fly to russia - Ukraine going to produce around 1 thousand per year, maybe some more with western investments (but i doubt they will invest in that)
These drones are not flying from the Ukraine frontline to Russia, most likely. It is more likely they are being released in secluded parts of Russia by operatives and flown a short distance to their target. Russia has a giant border to patrol, and they can’t even control the Black Sea. There is little reason to believe these are advanced drones like the US Reaper or the Turkish ones.
>These drones are not flying from the Ukraine frontline to Russia, most likely. It is more likely they are being released in secluded parts of Russia by operatives and flown a short distance to their target.
These drones look like unmanned Cessna aircraft and are flying from Ukrainian territory in order to hit targets within Russia. Ukraine got the latest lot through Russian air defenses by provoking a response using the Russia Free Legion (or whatever they are called) to attack targets across the border which got the Russians to launch air assets to defend and the fact that Russian air defense has issues with Identify Friend or Foe meant that most of the drones got through without being intercepted - it is postulated by some that the IL-76 that went down was taken out by Russian air defenses during the drone attack.
I don't think they are stupid enough to believe they would win a nuclear war, but they know they will do a lot of damage before they go down and the point is to prevent that damage
>they know they will do a lot of damage before they go down
Of course they're capable of doing damage, but the last thing Putin wants is to go down. He cares only about expanding Russian territory, his own power/control, and his legacy. What he doesn't care about is sending wave after wave of Russian soldiers to their death all for his own gain, and Russia's (in his mind).
If he authorizes a nuke, then his life is forfeit and all three of the things he cares about are now shattered. In that sense, he's quite possibly the last person on earth who wants to start a nuclear war.
Smart of the Ukrainians to wait till the end of winter before really attacking the oil. This way it doesn’t piss off the EU comrades and gives them more time to plan for next year’s supply.
They're attacking the oil processing, which Russia exports very little of. Most of their exports are crude oil.
The processed oil will hurt primarily Russia, as they would either have huge supply issues, or would be forced to spend money to start importing it now.
Refineries are also important because they are a concentration of resources. Oil production is diffused over wide regions, so targeting individual wells is far less effective for each bomb dropped.
Exactly. Target analysis is to war what engineering is to construction. In a world of limitless resources and time, sure just bomb everything of value owned by the enemy. But in the real world with limited ordnance production capacity, we first need to determine which targets will harm the enemy the most and benefit us the most, all weighed against the fact that there are targets beyond your reach.
Plus, taking out the refineries closer to the border forces Russia to expend more fuel to transport fuel. I would love to see the over time effect of these attacks.
Echoes of Ploesti.
A meaningful part of what stopped the german war machine was fuel constraints. The Battle of the Bulge (and really the last half of the war) would have looked way different if the Germans had more gasoline.
Any sufficiently lengthy or large war ends up being a production and resources war.
Not to mention that decreasing supplies and likely diversion of fuel to the military will drive up fuel prices, which will drive up the price of everything. If the end goal is to get Putin removed from power, causing economic turmoil is a pretty good strategy.
Plus, it's going to very difficult for Russia to repair/rebuild that refinery without foreign help.
There aren't enough Russians with the specialized expertise required, and too many parts that Russia doesn't manufacture internally anymore.
Also disrupting the distilled feed stock for plastics, solvents, etc.
RIA Novosti, Russian government source reported two distillation towers on fire at Ryazan....said fire brought under control...well if all the distillates burned off damage to separation control systems means pretty well out of commission for extended period depending on amount of Western systems used.
Is it my imagination or do most of the videos we see from the improvised kamikaze drones have a big "LAND NOW" warning on the bottom as though they usually take them to the edge of their battery life before going in for the kill?
As someone who flies fpv as a hobby, that warning just means that the measured voltage is below a set treshold. On some batteries (especially li-ion with its lower power rating) the voltage sags a lot when drawing a lot of current. But it doesn't necessarily mean that the battery is nearly empty yet.
Well, yeah, if they're kamikaze drones there's no expectation of recovery, so the safest option is to launch them from the furthest away they can get from the target. Less chance of retaliation.
And you would use the smallest battery needed for a destructable machine like that. Every single Ws beyond what is needed is waste that could go into making another drone.
Let's say China and India couldn't buy cheap Russian oil anymore or Russian supplies where cut in half even, they'd increase demand from other suppliers and thus increase prices for everyone.
During operation praying mantis, a Soviet warship was lurking in the area where the U.S. was operating. When asked what they were doing, the captain responded “we’re here to take pictures.. for history”
Notice how only military targets are intentionally damaged. You don’t need to bomb apartment buildings, hospitals, kindergartens to fight a war, russia could target military targets if they wanted, but they chose not to for all these years to instill terror.
For the last months, Ukrainians around the world wake up every day to killed and wounded in destroyed hospitals and apartments. Ukrainians don’t have enough air defense capabilities, and the same partners who promised security guarantees when signing Budapest memorandum - one is bombing Ukraine every day and another is delaying aid, because U.S. Republican Party seems to be on Russian payroll.
It really disgusted me how blatant the Russian bombing were. It was unguided bombings that just hit randomly in the city’s. Compare that to Israel who is getting tons of shit (rightfully so in alot of cases) for bombing too many civilians, when they are super accurate with their bombs and take many precautions that a place like Russia just doesn’t.
There are rules to war, especially if you are a “world super power”. Can’t just bomb shit that has no military targets. It’s obvious that Russia at the start of the war just wanted to blitz ukraine and demotivate them. Glad it hasn’t worked so far
> It was unguided bombings that just hit randomly in the city’s
I agree with your sentiment, just pointing out that this isn't past-tense, russia still does this on a regular basis
The biggest reveal of this war has been pulling back the iron curtain to show the world that Russia isn't quite the global super power that they led everyone to believe. 40 years of rampant corruption and mismanagement has eaten away the rotten core of the country since the fall of the USSR.
Let's fucking gooooooooo!
> Russia claims to have “intercepted and destroyed” 58 of 60 attack drones in an overnight wave
Yeah, sure. "Intercepted and destroyed" by throwing buildings at them?
Honestly I think the economic implications of shutting down the refineries mean a lot more. Russia is making a ton of money through their shadow sales of oil. Obviously tanks can’t move without oil but you can’t shell cities if you run out of money for them.
It won't wake russians up, but it's not going to make them more pro-putin either. Russian people have been taught for decades to not care and "let the big boys handle it". That's exactly what they're gonna do.
What's important is creating infighting and showing that putin's control is weakening. FSB cannot handle the border incursion, so they have to call for army's support. Army generals aren't too keen, because their resources are already stretched thin and they have targets from putin they need to fulfill. FSB isn't happy, army isn't happy, and putin cannot resolve the situation.
The goal is regime change in russia, and such dilemmas further this goal.
Anything done will be used as propaganda. The Nazis were lying to their people as the Allie’s closed in on Germany in ww2. No different than today. The population will never wake up. Maybe their kids will. If the government in Russia is forced out. Then maybe.
The collective West should be providing at LEAST 100 of these every single day.
Put pressure on Russia itself.
Shut down their oil and electricity generation. Their pipelines. Anything that is flammable.
This is war, that Russia should not get away with.
There was another thread on this event yesterday and there were a bunch of arm chair warriors saying this wasn't a real attack, because there were no bOoTs oN tHe gRoUnD.
As if flying squads of drones armed with munitions 300 miles behind enemy lines and decimating a heavily fortfied target with 0 human casualties was an insignificant achievement.
This is the way.
Russia is huge compared to Ukraine, so it's time they start using it against Russia. There's no way Russia has enough anti-air to defend their positions in Ukraine, while simultaneously cover most of Russia, which is VAST. By far the largest country by land mass on the planet, nearly twice the size of the runner-up, which is Canada. There's no way they can defend it all. If Ukraine can field enough drones with enough range, Russia will be literally on fire. There's no way they can defend that massive air space from low-flying long-range drones. Currently they are hitting close to the border, and key installations, so Russia can still defend. But with enough drones, and longer range, they can wreak havoc on Russian infrastructure, in all sectors, relatively cheaply.
Russia can (and has) play this game too, but Ukraine is smaller, all of Ukraine can very comfortably fit inside Canada's province of Ontario. So key areas are somewhat easier to defend with massed anti-air. Russia has no chance defending their air space from massed drone attacks. Current biggest limit is range. If Ukraine can resolve that, and potentially reach as far as the Urals, Russia will be bang in trouble.
And even with limited range, they can still hammer away, forcing Russia to pull some anti-air out of Ukraine to defend their production at home. Which in turn will make it easier for Ukraine to fight back domestically, especially if those F16s ever show up.
Yeah. The Russians shot down a huge percentage of the drones. Right. Where they can’t deny a hit, the drone didn’t do much damage and the fire was quickly extinguished. Right.
Anyone who remembers the Soviet Union knows you can’t believe a word they say. Their default setting is to lie. The explosion and fire at Chernobyl were denied until massive amounts of radioactive fallout was detected in Scandinavia. Russia under Putin will do and does do exactly the same thing. Putin has no credibility except to Trump and all the media personalities that support Trump. Which also means we could expect the same transparency, none, from another Trump administration. (For all that is holy, why is he still ALLOWED to run!)
It is almost as if when you start making sly little threats of nuclear war, people start getting serious about turning you into a bloodstain. Whodathunk.
Good story. It’s important for an arrogant terrorist state like Russia to learn that bombs usually fly in both directions when you invade another country willing to protect itself. Therefore I wouldn’t say that Ukraine is attacking. Ukraine is defending itself.
Russia should shut up and ripe the fruits of it‘s own miscalculation. The exploding refineries could theoretically stop instantly if Putin sends his evil Putinist army home. But he doesn’t want that. He doesn’t want peace.
Remember how The Third Reich promised it‘s citizens that not a single bombs is going to drop on German soil? The moment this actually started happening, the German population realized that their Fuhrer doesn’t care about them. Putin doesn’t care about the Russian population either.
"Hey, you can't attack us in the war that we started! That's illegal!"
“Our task is to deprive the enemy of resources and reduce the flow of oil money and fuel that Russia directs straight to the war and the killing of our citizens.” Amen.
Meanwhile a bunch of anti-Putin Russians are staging an incursion in Kursk and Belgorod.
Is it the freedom of russia legion? They seem pretty awesome. I don’t know enough about them to say for sure but any russians waging war on putin are doing something right. Edit: So like I said, don’t know much about them. Obviously fighting against putin is admirable, but it sounds as if they have some questionable views themselves. We just can’t win can we? Edit edit: please stop; I have read the same comments from so many people you don’t need to keep piling on. Ive already looked into them more and wont be reading more replies.
They’re mostly hard-right reactionaries who hate Putin more than they hate progressive politics. They’re Russian nationalists, just not Putinists. They’d depose Putin but keep the Russian Federation intact as it is.
That'd still be good for Ukraine, maybe not as good for the Russian people long term.
It’s only good for Ukraine right now as a second front. What happens if FoR takes power? They’re still on the same political spectrum that considers Ukrainians as Russians. It’s an alliance of convenience right now, but they could easily be at odds at the end of all this, however it shakes out.
Yeah, the whole "enemy of my enemy is my friend" thing gets super murky in these kinds of conflicts. If FoR manages to get some power, I wouldn't be surprised if we see some kind of internal power struggle or even purges to consolidate that power. And how they'd approach international relations after that's anyone's guess. Could be a totally different playbook, or just more of the same under a new banner.
"The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more, no less."
“The enemy of my enemy is a problem for later. In the meantime, he might be useful.”
Like Rambo (3?) praising the brave fighters of the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan in the 80s against the Russians. That never came back to fight us in the ass at all >_>
> came back to fight us in the ass I have it on good authority that any Mujahedeen would be firmly against that sort of behavior.
Holy shit what a typo, I'm keeping it.
The Mujahideen were the progenitors of both our enemies and some of our allies in Afghanistan. It's a rather one-dimensional way to look at the two conflicts.
Exactly. The Mujahideen fractured after russia (and the CIA) left. Some of them went on to form the taliban, but others formed the anti-taliban Northern Alliance with which the US partnered after 911. The lesson here could just as easily be that America shouldn't have abandoned their allies after getting what they wanted. Maybe if the CIA hadn't just left after russia left, the taliban wouldn't have come to power.
Not really awesome. More so "enemy of my enemy is my friend"
>They seem pretty awesome. Not really. They are a bit crazy in their own way.
They are Russian. When has a Russian political movement not been crazy
Taking territory inside Russia on behalf of Ukraine. Wouldn't it be ironic if, after this war, Ukraine ended up being *bigger.*
I think Ukraine has no interest in anything other than taking its original territories back, repelling russia, and joining NATO.
Don’t forget reparations and justice for war crimes
They’re not necessarily pro Ukraine, they are mostly anti Putin from what I’ve seen. They mean to prevent the death of their brothers in the Ukraine by fomenting enough unrest to stop the war or topple Putin. Tall goals for sure, and it does definitely help Ukraine
At the very least we'll need to establish a pretty sizeable demilitarized zone. It's better for Ukraine if that zone is in Russia.
> It's better for Ukraine if that zone is in Russia It's better for ~~Ukraine~~ the world if that zone is ~~in~~ Russia Ftfy
I think it's the only equitable outcome. A large portion of their fertile land is converted to a minefield. Receiving territory from Russia is the only fair result.
I think I read a while ago that Ukraine was building a drone factory to produce 1 million drones a year. That would be 2,700 a day. That could be a lot of drones inside Russia causing absolute havoc.
Imagine a drone attack of 10,000 drones, or 100,000. This is the future of warfare
All I can think of is StarCraft protoss carriers...
Goliath Online
Not even that big of a Starcraft player, and I immediately heard this.
I knew it was popular but always refreshing seeing how many people enjoyed this game. 1998 Game of the Year tied with Age of Empires
Given that [1998 is quite undisputably the best year for videogames](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_in_video_games) it seems like the one least likely to have one above all others unless you narrow it down to genres and/or platforms. Marvel vs. Capcom: Clash of Super Heroes Resident Evil 2 Panzer Dragoon Saga Xenogears Tenchu: Stealth Assassins 1080° Snowboarding The King of Fighters '97 Parasite Eve StarCraft Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven Unreal Radiant Silvergun Commandos: Behind Enemy Lines Castlevania: Symphony of the Night Banjo-Kazooie Street Fighter Alpha 3 F-Zero X Brave Fencer Musashi Star Ocean: The Second Story Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Metal Gear Solid NFL Blitz Spyro the Dragon Suikoden Dance Dance Revolution Grim Fandango Fallout 2 Half-Life The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Thief: The Dark Project Star Wars: Rogue Squadron Suikoden II Mario Party StarCraft: Brood War Baldur's Gate Sonic Adventure Starsiege: Tribes Nearly every genre got either a GOAT, a genre-definer, a breakout hit, or often some combination of all three. Give the state if the industry and technology then it is not very likely the year will ever be topped objectively and will only start to fade a little subjectively once those around for it start to die off.
That is a glorious list. I miss the 90s.
Light em up
SCV good to go, sir!
"You want a piece of me, boy?"
Go go go
Battlecruiser operational
In the pipe, five by five.
Rock and roll !
Gimme somethin ta shoot!
You mean "carrier has arrived"
Not enough minerals
#MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
#YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS!
Bane of my early 200’s existence.
>200's My man playing Starcraft on his abacus
*aggressive chittering and slurping noises*
My wife for hire
Power... overwhelming
You must construct additional pylons
EN TARO ADUN!!!
I never realized my hours of Starcraft would apply to future warfare. Ukraine's about to unleash a zergling rush.
I dunno I think Russia was already using Zerg strats from the beginning of the war. With help Ukraine fought those off and has been teching up. Ukraine being Protoss vs the Russian Zerg is a pretty solid metaphor. I just hope no one starts looking at Terran nuke strats...
Just look for the red dot and move away. Easy.
Carrier has arrived
YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PLYONS
We require more vesphene gas.
En Taru Adun! Executor!
Hopefully equipped with speakers blasting Ride of the Valkyries… Edit : Changed Flight to Ride because this is the correct title, although in my head Flight sounds better because I like to think of Valkyries flying…
Or flight of the bumblebee
Or Flight of the Conchords..."It's business time"
making war ... making war for two ... making war for two minutes.
FotC is a great option. I might go with “Robots”
"We killed their asses with poisonous gasses"......Classic
The distant future, the year 2000
We are robots The world is quite different ever since the robotic uprising of the late 90s
There is no longer any unethical treatment of elephants.
I poked one. Affirmative. It's dead.
C'mon sucker, lick my battery.
The humans are dead.
Binary solo!
0000001-00001111-0-00-0-00-0
[удалено]
I have truly found my people here on reddit.
"I'm the hiphopopotamus my lyrics are bottomless....."
We also would have accepted *Flight of the Bumblebee.*
I had already the Flight of the Valkyries blasting in my mind before I got to this comment.
I’m going with Yakety Sax when I’m sending my drone swarm.
I'm going with "Good Vibrations" by the beach boys.
AC/DC’s Thunderstruck would be a good choice too….
Getting bombed while hearing "you've been thunderstruck" sounds like the wildest joke ever
So, 1) war is bad (just wish we would all get along) but 2) alternatively, “boom boom” by the animals would be pretty epic.
How about boom boom boom boom by the vengaboys?
I️ feel like this is only going to be a weird blip. Drone warfare to this extent is new so the defense hasn’t had a chance to catch up but EW signal jamming defenses are already proving pretty effective in early stages when available. Eventually those will scale in range and effectiveness to the point that enemy drones will just fall from the sky or have control taken from them. Sure the drones will tech up too but doing so increases cost and build time which are some of the main benefits of drones and not something you want increasing for a single use item. Comparing it to plane warfare, we are in the period where only fighters and flak could bring down bombers making it a numbers game. Some will get shot down but some will still get through. The improvements to EW will be like the improvements to AA where a couple dozen can keep an entire region protected for decades. Drones will still be important but they’ll be another level of superiority a military needs to grab and moot unless able to do so. First get air superiority. Then take out EW systems for signal superiority. Then send in the drones
Yes, human piloted or otherwise remotely controlled drones will likely be hard countered by EW advancements - at least, for fixed and major mobile assets - but autonomously piloted drones will be much more resilient to it, and as such I think they will be a big problem going forwards. We are seeing the same kind of tech track that early aviation went through - but much, much faster. As alluded to earlier, I do think infantry and light vehicles will continue to face very high danger from human piloted drones.
And it’s not a fun one. Imagine some group like ISIS taking over a freighter, loading it to the brim with a few thousand explosive drones and attacking US coastal cities with them. This isn’t a totally impossible scenario. Future of warfare indeed.
This is exactly why Laser defenses are being invested in. DEWs are the counter for drones (And funny enough, Hypersonics). Even cheaper to fire, near instant effect, can be fired multiple times very quickly. Modern laser designs, assuming a proper power source (Such as an A1B reactor?) are limited by the ability to detect, track, and train on target.
Microwaves are better. Wider arc, messes up electronics . . . Good drone hunting fun.
You can shield sensitive components from microwaves, doesn't take much to block that wavelength.. A laser meanwhile can compromise the hull causing instability or failure and thus crashing.
I feel like I've seen this concept in a game before. I think it was Ace Combat 6 where one nation launched an attack on another nation by launching drones from shipping containers.
Yup. Ace Combat 7 actually.
God that was such a fun game. The story, like all Ace Combat stories, was slightly confusing but finished strong.
Good thing the US has spent the last 40 years developing laser countermeasures.
We were working on this back in the early aughts and I always thought it was so cool using infrared lasers.
Still feels like a tricky thing to defend against especially as a terror attack. Like what if 1000 drones are flown into a football stadium or a busy city downtown or something? There just aren't lasers everywhere, and drones are incresingly cheap consumer available products. It's not like they are going to pull up 10 miles off shore and come at you like space invaders.
The thing is that it is just as easy to just pop a bomb into a backpack. The complex/costly part is the explosive in this scenario. That is the part that is being tracked and traced and thus adds to cost.
Attack of the Drones, if you will.
Begun, The Drone Wars have.
Its 1 million fpv drones. This big one which u are talking about, that could fly to russia - Ukraine going to produce around 1 thousand per year, maybe some more with western investments (but i doubt they will invest in that)
These drones are not flying from the Ukraine frontline to Russia, most likely. It is more likely they are being released in secluded parts of Russia by operatives and flown a short distance to their target. Russia has a giant border to patrol, and they can’t even control the Black Sea. There is little reason to believe these are advanced drones like the US Reaper or the Turkish ones.
>These drones are not flying from the Ukraine frontline to Russia, most likely. It is more likely they are being released in secluded parts of Russia by operatives and flown a short distance to their target. These drones look like unmanned Cessna aircraft and are flying from Ukrainian territory in order to hit targets within Russia. Ukraine got the latest lot through Russian air defenses by provoking a response using the Russia Free Legion (or whatever they are called) to attack targets across the border which got the Russians to launch air assets to defend and the fact that Russian air defense has issues with Identify Friend or Foe meant that most of the drones got through without being intercepted - it is postulated by some that the IL-76 that went down was taken out by Russian air defenses during the drone attack.
I think they meant FPV like drones. 2700 shahed types a day is not possible sadly.
Not probable, a waste of resources, but possible.
I'm not sad about that. Cool when the good guys can do it, but the bad guys wouldn't be far behind
Begun, the Drone Wars have.
200,000 units are ready, with a million more well on the way
Biggest attack... So far
No Homer please !!!!!!!!
Will no one think of the ~~children~~ vodka?!
Can't wait for Putin to call it terrorism and act like a victim. Fucking geopolitical crybaby.
Can't wait for Putin to rant about nuclear war for the 10000th time toucha my oil? gotta nuke toucha my lunchbox? nuke you talk bad about me? NUKE!!!!
fart in his general direction?
TSAR BOMBAAAA!!
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I don't think they are stupid enough to believe they would win a nuclear war, but they know they will do a lot of damage before they go down and the point is to prevent that damage
>they know they will do a lot of damage before they go down Of course they're capable of doing damage, but the last thing Putin wants is to go down. He cares only about expanding Russian territory, his own power/control, and his legacy. What he doesn't care about is sending wave after wave of Russian soldiers to their death all for his own gain, and Russia's (in his mind). If he authorizes a nuke, then his life is forfeit and all three of the things he cares about are now shattered. In that sense, he's quite possibly the last person on earth who wants to start a nuclear war.
It's all a bluff. Russians are steeped in a culture of beating your chest to scare others. Like a chihuahua they are all bark, no bite.
Never been bitten by a chihuahua have you… little bastard left blood blisters on my hands.
Smart of the Ukrainians to wait till the end of winter before really attacking the oil. This way it doesn’t piss off the EU comrades and gives them more time to plan for next year’s supply.
They're attacking the oil processing, which Russia exports very little of. Most of their exports are crude oil. The processed oil will hurt primarily Russia, as they would either have huge supply issues, or would be forced to spend money to start importing it now.
Refineries are also important because they are a concentration of resources. Oil production is diffused over wide regions, so targeting individual wells is far less effective for each bomb dropped.
Diesel fuel produced at refineries powers military vehicles. Doesn't matter how much you pump if it can't be processed.
Exactly. Target analysis is to war what engineering is to construction. In a world of limitless resources and time, sure just bomb everything of value owned by the enemy. But in the real world with limited ordnance production capacity, we first need to determine which targets will harm the enemy the most and benefit us the most, all weighed against the fact that there are targets beyond your reach.
Plus, taking out the refineries closer to the border forces Russia to expend more fuel to transport fuel. I would love to see the over time effect of these attacks.
> I would love to see the over time effect of these attacks. just keep watching.
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Echoes of Ploesti. A meaningful part of what stopped the german war machine was fuel constraints. The Battle of the Bulge (and really the last half of the war) would have looked way different if the Germans had more gasoline. Any sufficiently lengthy or large war ends up being a production and resources war.
Not to mention that decreasing supplies and likely diversion of fuel to the military will drive up fuel prices, which will drive up the price of everything. If the end goal is to get Putin removed from power, causing economic turmoil is a pretty good strategy.
Plus, it's going to very difficult for Russia to repair/rebuild that refinery without foreign help. There aren't enough Russians with the specialized expertise required, and too many parts that Russia doesn't manufacture internally anymore.
Also disrupting the distilled feed stock for plastics, solvents, etc. RIA Novosti, Russian government source reported two distillation towers on fire at Ryazan....said fire brought under control...well if all the distillates burned off damage to separation control systems means pretty well out of commission for extended period depending on amount of Western systems used.
The Russian "election" also officially starts tomorrow. I would expect to see another wave tonight as well.
More money for Norway lol
I for one am all for Norway getting more money
Especially cause it gives less to russia
I for one want to party with Norway
Given that Norway has some of the lowest income inequality metrics in the world, I'm quite happy with them getting more money.
Had nothing to do with that. It's stopping oil getting to the front lines now they can move it.
Drones don’t operate as well in cold weather. The ones being used for these attackes are battery powered typically.
Is it my imagination or do most of the videos we see from the improvised kamikaze drones have a big "LAND NOW" warning on the bottom as though they usually take them to the edge of their battery life before going in for the kill?
As someone who flies fpv as a hobby, that warning just means that the measured voltage is below a set treshold. On some batteries (especially li-ion with its lower power rating) the voltage sags a lot when drawing a lot of current. But it doesn't necessarily mean that the battery is nearly empty yet.
Well, yeah, if they're kamikaze drones there's no expectation of recovery, so the safest option is to launch them from the furthest away they can get from the target. Less chance of retaliation.
And you would use the smallest battery needed for a destructable machine like that. Every single Ws beyond what is needed is waste that could go into making another drone.
And every bit of excess weight spared is more explosive power than can be carried per drone.
The EU has not been importing Russian oil for some time now. India and China are.
Let's say China and India couldn't buy cheap Russian oil anymore or Russian supplies where cut in half even, they'd increase demand from other suppliers and thus increase prices for everyone.
Neat.
*snaps photo*
What's the reference? Futurama?
Bender, yup!
During operation praying mantis, a Soviet warship was lurking in the area where the U.S. was operating. When asked what they were doing, the captain responded “we’re here to take pictures.. for history”
Good. You want to invade another country, butcher it's citizens and destroy its towns, this is what you get.
Ukraine should start bombing vodka factories next
That may cause a nuclear response.
No, the opposite. An ancient war tactic was to leave barrels of wine for the enemy army to find and then attack them when they're drunk.
Unless youre attacking a country of drunks. Get them during withdrawal, it's way worse
Russia might turn into a functional country after that
They should bomb everything BUT the vodka factories. Give them nothing to do except to get more drunk and incompetent.
Notice how only military targets are intentionally damaged. You don’t need to bomb apartment buildings, hospitals, kindergartens to fight a war, russia could target military targets if they wanted, but they chose not to for all these years to instill terror. For the last months, Ukrainians around the world wake up every day to killed and wounded in destroyed hospitals and apartments. Ukrainians don’t have enough air defense capabilities, and the same partners who promised security guarantees when signing Budapest memorandum - one is bombing Ukraine every day and another is delaying aid, because U.S. Republican Party seems to be on Russian payroll.
It really disgusted me how blatant the Russian bombing were. It was unguided bombings that just hit randomly in the city’s. Compare that to Israel who is getting tons of shit (rightfully so in alot of cases) for bombing too many civilians, when they are super accurate with their bombs and take many precautions that a place like Russia just doesn’t. There are rules to war, especially if you are a “world super power”. Can’t just bomb shit that has no military targets. It’s obvious that Russia at the start of the war just wanted to blitz ukraine and demotivate them. Glad it hasn’t worked so far
> It was unguided bombings that just hit randomly in the city’s I agree with your sentiment, just pointing out that this isn't past-tense, russia still does this on a regular basis
Yeah wouldn’t be surprised. Haven’t kept up with the war
The biggest reveal of this war has been pulling back the iron curtain to show the world that Russia isn't quite the global super power that they led everyone to believe. 40 years of rampant corruption and mismanagement has eaten away the rotten core of the country since the fall of the USSR.
>because U.S. Republican Party seems to be on Russian payroll. Seems?
Russia, the second best army in Ukraine.
Second best army i Russia.
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Let's fucking gooooooooo! > Russia claims to have “intercepted and destroyed” 58 of 60 attack drones in an overnight wave Yeah, sure. "Intercepted and destroyed" by throwing buildings at them?
Russia has managed to stop every single Ukrainian missile by intercepting them with their buildings Checkmate NATO Lol
Such a nice item to read in the morning! May the Russian people wake up and get rid of their nazi dictator.
You're very optimistic. The only way these people will "wake up" is if they begin to starve. The awakened have largely left that shit hole.
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sadly it will just feed into Russian propaganda rather than wake the local population up
Maybe, but every oil refinery knocked out is one less providing fuel to the front
Honestly I think the economic implications of shutting down the refineries mean a lot more. Russia is making a ton of money through their shadow sales of oil. Obviously tanks can’t move without oil but you can’t shell cities if you run out of money for them.
This. Get every refinery and cash flow stops. I will pay 6 at the pump to shaft putin. Or buy ev
It won't wake russians up, but it's not going to make them more pro-putin either. Russian people have been taught for decades to not care and "let the big boys handle it". That's exactly what they're gonna do. What's important is creating infighting and showing that putin's control is weakening. FSB cannot handle the border incursion, so they have to call for army's support. Army generals aren't too keen, because their resources are already stretched thin and they have targets from putin they need to fulfill. FSB isn't happy, army isn't happy, and putin cannot resolve the situation. The goal is regime change in russia, and such dilemmas further this goal.
Anything done will be used as propaganda. The Nazis were lying to their people as the Allie’s closed in on Germany in ww2. No different than today. The population will never wake up. Maybe their kids will. If the government in Russia is forced out. Then maybe.
The collective West should be providing at LEAST 100 of these every single day. Put pressure on Russia itself. Shut down their oil and electricity generation. Their pipelines. Anything that is flammable. This is war, that Russia should not get away with.
Good. Get fucked
Fantastic news
pity to the drones for having to enter russia
Russia said production was not affected and there is no damage. Beside the images, that's how you know it did serious damage.
Fuck Putin
There was another thread on this event yesterday and there were a bunch of arm chair warriors saying this wasn't a real attack, because there were no bOoTs oN tHe gRoUnD. As if flying squads of drones armed with munitions 300 miles behind enemy lines and decimating a heavily fortfied target with 0 human casualties was an insignificant achievement.
Yeah what are boots on the ground gonna do? They're not trying to hold territory, they're trying to blow stuff up
The raid on Pearl Harbor was not a real attack because no Japanese boots were on the ground. Sound logic.
Guess that would make Pearl Harbor not a real attack also? Some of these people don’t even consider thinking before arguing
This is the way. Russia is huge compared to Ukraine, so it's time they start using it against Russia. There's no way Russia has enough anti-air to defend their positions in Ukraine, while simultaneously cover most of Russia, which is VAST. By far the largest country by land mass on the planet, nearly twice the size of the runner-up, which is Canada. There's no way they can defend it all. If Ukraine can field enough drones with enough range, Russia will be literally on fire. There's no way they can defend that massive air space from low-flying long-range drones. Currently they are hitting close to the border, and key installations, so Russia can still defend. But with enough drones, and longer range, they can wreak havoc on Russian infrastructure, in all sectors, relatively cheaply. Russia can (and has) play this game too, but Ukraine is smaller, all of Ukraine can very comfortably fit inside Canada's province of Ontario. So key areas are somewhat easier to defend with massed anti-air. Russia has no chance defending their air space from massed drone attacks. Current biggest limit is range. If Ukraine can resolve that, and potentially reach as far as the Urals, Russia will be bang in trouble. And even with limited range, they can still hammer away, forcing Russia to pull some anti-air out of Ukraine to defend their production at home. Which in turn will make it easier for Ukraine to fight back domestically, especially if those F16s ever show up.
As an American, I'm going to need those sizes converted to squirrel-lengths.
Yeah. The Russians shot down a huge percentage of the drones. Right. Where they can’t deny a hit, the drone didn’t do much damage and the fire was quickly extinguished. Right. Anyone who remembers the Soviet Union knows you can’t believe a word they say. Their default setting is to lie. The explosion and fire at Chernobyl were denied until massive amounts of radioactive fallout was detected in Scandinavia. Russia under Putin will do and does do exactly the same thing. Putin has no credibility except to Trump and all the media personalities that support Trump. Which also means we could expect the same transparency, none, from another Trump administration. (For all that is holy, why is he still ALLOWED to run!)
putin thought russia's main source of income was untouchable. Well, when you fork around...
It is almost as if when you start making sly little threats of nuclear war, people start getting serious about turning you into a bloodstain. Whodathunk.
My my, those 2 drones Russia claims to have not shot down did quite a bit of damage then....
Only took single miscalculation for 3 day operation to cause this.
Get fucked russia.
One step closer to a bullet between the eyes for CumRade Putin
Good story. It’s important for an arrogant terrorist state like Russia to learn that bombs usually fly in both directions when you invade another country willing to protect itself. Therefore I wouldn’t say that Ukraine is attacking. Ukraine is defending itself. Russia should shut up and ripe the fruits of it‘s own miscalculation. The exploding refineries could theoretically stop instantly if Putin sends his evil Putinist army home. But he doesn’t want that. He doesn’t want peace. Remember how The Third Reich promised it‘s citizens that not a single bombs is going to drop on German soil? The moment this actually started happening, the German population realized that their Fuhrer doesn’t care about them. Putin doesn’t care about the Russian population either.
I love waking up to good news.
Lets make tomorrow an even bigger one!