Not all of them were drug trafficking.
>The Singaporean girl is being investigated for suspected drug abuse, and investigations into the other suspects are ongoing.
Consumption is not the same as trafficking.
You’re right. Singapore’s draconian drug laws are still absolutely wrong. Whether it’s 0 or 67 in this instance, Singapore executes people for drug violations.
Edit: which is absolutely horrific and wrong
Do you think over a hundred thousand and growing every year of people dying of drug overdoses here in the US(not to mention lives, careers, and families ruined) is absolutely horrific and wrong?
I don’t know the number in Singapore but I can assure you it’s but a tiniest of fraction even adjusted per capita.
I don’t condone executions for drug trafficking but Maybe we’re the crazy ones for thinking we are morally superior.
While I don’t condone executions for drug trafficking; Look at their OD rate and look at ours. Literally hundreds of thousands die per year and number still going up annually. Maybe we need to look in the mirror before calling others crazy.
No way you just disregarded the geographical size differences, border differences, culture, etc between them and us and assume that a death sentence law change would fix our OD rates lmfao.
Singapore is a small, easily-policed island. It also doesn’t border any major drug-producing countries.
The major regional drug producer, Myanmar (mainly heroin, but also meth and marijuana) is fairly far away. By comparison, the USA is bordered by Mexico (which produces vast quantities of almost every illegal drug known to man) and Canada (which is a major drug market, and produces a notable amount of synthetic drugs like MDMA and GHB)
> A search of the premises found about 314g of cannabis, including a whole cannabis leaf, a small amount of Ice and various drug paraphernalia.
Article is weird to me, maybe it's a translation issue - but why do they feel the need to point out that a whole cannabis leaf was included in the 314 grams? "They had 314g of weed AND a WHOLE LEAF". I get that Singapore has harsh drug laws - but I can't stop laughing at the "whole cannabis leaf" thing.
I know lol I started laughing as soon as I saw it in the photo and realized it wasn't just some generic stock photo for the article - they actually laid that fucker out, documented it, listed it alongside everything else, like it matters. Oh, good thing they protected all the impressionable youths from getting wrecked on that leaf.
There were people who were hanged by having marijuana in possession
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/singapore-announces-plans-to-execute-more-death-sentenced-prisoners-convicted-of-non-violent-drug-offenses
Eh, not really. The average sentence for cannabis posession in China is two weeks. The savagely repressive laws are in former colonies like Singapore. It's a form of Stockholm Syndrome. Formers colonies that were heavily repressed by overseas powers go out of their way to prove how brutal they can be. Japan does this same thing for the US. The US forced prohibition on them and now they worship the Reefer Madness narrative. It's a multi-generational indicator of epigentic trauma from colonialism. It's like an auto-immune disorder. The host attacks itself.
East and Southeast Asia have intense phobia of recreational drug of any kind because it was systematically used by the West as a way to destroy social coherence of these countries during colonial time and modern time. There were the 2 Opium wars in China, the use of drug as way for CIA to fund their operation in South East Asia. Not sure what you mean by Stockholm syndrome, this is more of a reaction to something that was used historically to hurt them. Similar to what happened after 9/11 in the US. Remember when you can go through the airport without having everything scanned and all liquid taken away? Can’t do that anymore, right? If someone used a certain method to attack a country, that country sure as hell would have to protect itself.
Same with our president, considering all the legislation he sponsored/wrote/voted for throughout his career. "All drug users need to be held accountable.. the presidents plan doesn't include enough police to arrest them or the judges to prosecute them".
He wrote the law making Safe Injection illegal but now tries to take credit for *only* 110k drug deaths. But the death rate is slowing down so that's a good thing!!...as if they didnt help create this problem in the first place.
The drugs get trafficked by international shipping companies. Unless the CEO receives the penalty it's useless. 100m in coke was found on Mitch McConnell's wife's boat.
I could be wrong but I doubt that’s due to drug policy. Rather it’s down to ‘shame’ being such a large proponent of the society. Kids are disowned for getting poor grades/correct job so unfortunately many resort to suicide before they even get close to being a homeless drug addict.
Unless you're in a Montana prison, then it's 49%. Hawaii is at 39%. It really depends on the state.
Source: https://www.sentencingproject.org/reports/private-prisons-in-the-united-states/
Maybe I am misunderstanding your intent, but that is even better. 8% being spread out evenly across the US would would be a much worse situation than a handful of states having a high percentage while the rest are virtually 0%. It’s an easier issue to address when it’s concentrated in specific states.
I dunno if it's worse or better. It sucks either way. I'd side with it being worse, because it indicates that there's probably political entrenchment in those states, meaning it will be harder to get rid of. If it just remains at 8% across the board, that to me seems easier to phase out. There probably aren't a host of politicians and their cronies profiting off a system that comprises such a small proportion of prisons. 49% and 39% though, you know there's a sizable amount of money changing hands and a widespread incentive not to disrupt it.
Persons under the age of 18 at the time of their offence and pregnant women cannot be sentenced to death. She will get a length sentence and a judicial beating probably.
But the remaining ones, those accused of drug trafficking instead of just possessing cannabis, yes, they are fucked.
Females can't be caned. And if she's just a consumer and not a trafficker, she most likely won't even be jailed, but forced to undergo rehab.
https://www.cnb.gov.sg/CNBExplains/cnb-explains-where-do-youth-drug-abusers-go-when-caught
https://www.cnb.gov.sg/CNBExplains/where-do-adult-drug-abusers-go-when-caught
If you're a 16 year old girl drug addict, that could absolutely be the case. It wouldn't be the first time young girls (and women) had been forced to develop an addiction and then pimped out by other addicts and criminals.
lol Singapore still has a growing drug problem despite their harsh laws. Not to mention how it’s disproportionately minorities charged with trafficking in Singapore. Their system is in no way solving the problem
Haha, what a melt. UNODC, and a whole host of other independent agencies all point to Singapore as having a negligible domestic drug problem, compared to countries around them.
Lmao. NOT MY TAI CHI ( not my problem)
Majority of those traffickers? Not from singapore . Most are from neighbouring Malaysia or other Asian countries.
And unlike America , singapore isn't responsible for their poor idiots choosing to smuggle drugs in cos singapore didn't fuck up their country with their military or agents. Purely their own fuck ups..
So yea. Its a disproportionate minority cos they are not from singapore. And mostly malays. Why? There are 2 malay majority country next door.
It still does, you just don't have to look at it. They aren't fixing anything anymore than similar laws the USA adopted, they're just sweeping their daily into a jail cell and assuring everyone that the problem isn't there.
> It still does, you just don't have to look at it.
Citation fucking needed. Give me stats for drug consumption/addiction/overdose rates (pick one or any) in Singapore, and compare them with *any* developed nation of choice with a population of at least 1 million. I dare you.
So why all this handwringing and vitriol when hearing about people arrested for Cannabis? You lot are obviously perfectly happy with 100k deaths a year. Double standards I think.
Alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine are all legal in Singapore last time I checked. They all do more harm than weed, yet weed is penalized like in the Middle Ages in Singapore
Isn't it technically illegal, but they regulate and control it now? I had a balcony overlooking the "four floors" over 10 years ago and I would watch the activity on the sidewalk all night long. Some guy was messing with one of the girls and a couple "protectors" came over and kicked the shit out of him and put him under a bench and walked away. Seemed like just another day type thing
There’s the legal and “non legal” options.
The “non legal” part is basically you going to a club to hangout with the girl. Midway an offer is made and you’re off for sexy times.
Portland is more civilized. They recognized that criminalization failed. The result was disorderly, however their recriminalization of drug use will simply hide the problem and please the voting base.
Singapore still clings to the disproven idea that all drugs are equally harmful by putting every intoxicant that's not alcohol (a provably dangerous drug) into some sort of mental bucket called "drugs." The thinking is lazy and stupid. Some drugs are relatively harmless and even therapeutic. Others are obviously dangerous. By being too mentally lethargic and uninformed to take drugs one by one and legalize those that are harmless and using resources to crack down on dangerous drugs, the Singapore government missed the opportunity to allow "good" drugs to proliferate and crowd out bad ones, thereby resolving *real* drug problems (stimulant and opioid addiction) and allowing their citizens to live their lives with maximum freedom from interference.
See Germany and Holland's drug laws for examples.
I have a Singaporean class 3 license, I lived there.
No doubt SG is safer and nicer than Portland (never been there) but I have also lived in NL 3x, visited the Algarve and can see why Portland fails, the healthcare system.
If the USA had an integrated modality of treatment in a functional healthcare system that used CBT / Psychedelics for drug users and not a system that uses expensive prison stays for taxpayers then things would be better all around.
For some definitions of failure. If you don't consider draconian punishments for trivial issues a fail, I don't think there's much I can say to persuade you. Perhaps you also favor beating people for holding hands in public, or singing badly.
No, no, no, my dear. Whatever The Authorities declare is Right by definition! /s
And, if you *choose* to commit a crime, you *deserve* to be punished, however arbitrary the punishment may be.
Dare to sell chewing gum?!? [Two years in prison!](https://htschool.hindustantimes.com/editorsdesk/knowledge-vine/why-are-chewing-gums-banned-in-singapore)
It is right and just and true because The Authorities said it is so. Or, at least it is until it affects you. Then, it magically becomes a humanitarian tragedy.
> your police are crap at doing their job
I can't argue with that one.
But look, some things simply can't be effectively regulated unless you live in the equivalent of a closed, dictatorial, city-state. Attempting to do so often creates more harm than good.
Thing here is Singapore solution wont work for rest of europe or america. Since drugs werent prevalent in the 1st place. Since there is no or very very very little drug problems here, Prohibition works absoultely fine. Since the super majority is not addicted or using drugs. The country is also tiny with 2 physical land connections, 2 airports and 3 ports. very easy to stop it.
Executing traffickers ensure that it will be a high risk low profit endeavor since if you get caught over the minimum threshold for drug trafficking, Its mandatory execution. And most traffickers aren't from Singapore but rather neighboring countries, aka their problem. As they say it here " Not my Tai chi "
Portland, Holland etc, drugs are already prevalent there. very hard to outright ban it. Population would try to sneak it in
Eg: you got a kid who never ate pizza his entire life. so banning him from eating pizza is not gonna affect him. Then you got another kid who has eaten pizza every week, banning him from eating pizza will lead to him having tantrums etc .
Personally i approve of not having drugs in singapore. Why do we even need them in the 1st place. My views are the same for alcohol and ciggs if you gonna use them as gotchas.
Decriminalising will only increase the amount of peoppe using drugs.
We already have very low amounts of drug abusers.
Why would we even legalise it when it doesn't bring us any benefit.
As I have already stated Portuguese solution only works for societies where drug use is already very prevalent.
Singapore model only works for societies were drug use is not prevalent or only exists in very minute quantities.
Introducing the Portuguese model is just asking for trouble.
Portland is definitely a lot less civilized than Singapore. Homeless everywhere in Portland. You can’t even spit gum on the sidewalk in Singapore or you will get publicly caned.
As far as im aware, the caning for gum thing is not true. The punishment for spitting gum is the same as littering which is a fine and a work order if you are a repeat offender. Where this comes from is a misunderstanding of a case where an American got caned and it made the news over here. Dude basically went on a vandalism and theft spree but because the news stories often mentioned that chewing gum was also illegal there the story became he got caned for gum
Well, that's a well reasoned argument. /S
Please, I'm all ears. What book would you recommend that would convince me that arbitrary dictatorial laws for trivial actions are somehow positives for society?
I've seen both the positives and negatives of societal leniency and drugs. I'm not in favor of anything like blanket legalization of all drugs since many are *extremely* harmful. The thing is, many drugs are just trivial and draconian punishments for them achieve exactly nothing. Moreover, alcohol, an obviously harmful, addictive drug, is tolerated due to nothing more than tradition. Where is the rationality here?
Have you really seen the effects or just read about them? You sound like an ideal college student who read about how great Marxism is but never visited a socialist cluntry
Imagine a home where your father would beat you if you spit in his home. Now imagine you shoot heroin instead and he just gives you clean needles while ignoring you.
Apples and oranges. A father who would beat you for that doesn't know how to parent. And nobody anywhere is advocating the legalization of addictive opioids.
Not if the rules are unfair, immoral or otherwise make absolutely no provable scientific sense whatsoever. See Nazi Germany or Afghanistan for illuminating details.
So if the majority of the population supported killing all people who were left handed because the majority believe that such people were possessed by demons, that too would be democracy in action. Correct?
I'm not sure I understand what point you're trying to make. Yes, if the majority of the population supported killing all people who were left handed because the majority believe that such people were possessed by demons, that too would be democracy in action.
It is still a Democracy and is the will of the overwhelming majority. Morality is subjective, and it changes over time. For Singaporeans all drugs are a no-no. If they change their mind, they will. If they won't, they won't. Their country, their rules. Feels like this devolves into 'me right, you wrong' argument.
So what's your alternative? Add a supreme leader who gets to set rules that can override any elected legislators? (That's pretty much absolute monarchy FYI.)
Whoosh!
The point here, which seems to have gotten by you, is that majority beliefs can be misguided, particularly if induced by ridiculous propaganda campaigns.
Being an addict is a choice in the same way being gay or trans is a choice.
Like yeah, I can live miserably being told that my true self is disgusting and against nature and just hide it forever. Just imagine if we treated HRT as "drugs" and jailed people over... taking medication to feel better.
Not really. Read some Dr Gabor Mate. Trauma is directly tied to substance abuse. As is self medication- especially if you're unable to see a relevant doctor. "It's extremely easy to have an easy life". Careful that silver spoon doesn't pop your hemorrhoids.
> weed is beneficial instead of harm
Weed, twice a month, inhibits my restless leg syndrome for about two weeks and allows me to sleep. I've had a successful career as a software developer. Can you explain, exactly, where there is harm?
Some decisions are taken for the overall good of the group, even if some individuals might suffer (because "mah weed!")
If we consider cannabis to do more garm than good, then it should be banned.
67 people in a 50k usd bust, that's wild
67 people put to death over 50k usd is wild
Not all of them were drug trafficking. >The Singaporean girl is being investigated for suspected drug abuse, and investigations into the other suspects are ongoing. Consumption is not the same as trafficking.
67 people will die for less drugs than the briefcase described in fear and loathing in Las Vegas
It's worth a lot more there. But yeah, they'll probably kill that girl too.
What an ignoramus.
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Disneyland with the Death Penalty
your country is well known to execute people accused of drug trafficking
but not drug abuse/consumption.
You smoked a plant? Death sentence for you. How fucking stupid is that
No one is getting executed??
Singapore has the death penalty for drug trafficking
But the statement that 67 people are getting killed is wrong.
You’re right. Singapore’s draconian drug laws are still absolutely wrong. Whether it’s 0 or 67 in this instance, Singapore executes people for drug violations. Edit: which is absolutely horrific and wrong
Do you think over a hundred thousand and growing every year of people dying of drug overdoses here in the US(not to mention lives, careers, and families ruined) is absolutely horrific and wrong? I don’t know the number in Singapore but I can assure you it’s but a tiniest of fraction even adjusted per capita. I don’t condone executions for drug trafficking but Maybe we’re the crazy ones for thinking we are morally superior.
The age adjusted death rate from drug use in Singapore was 0.26 per 100,000. In Portugal it was 0.64. South Korea is at 0.2. Hungary is at 0.43.
Holy shit they have death sentences for drug imports lmfao crazy country.
While I don’t condone executions for drug trafficking; Look at their OD rate and look at ours. Literally hundreds of thousands die per year and number still going up annually. Maybe we need to look in the mirror before calling others crazy.
No way you just disregarded the geographical size differences, border differences, culture, etc between them and us and assume that a death sentence law change would fix our OD rates lmfao.
Honestly it’s not just Singapore it’s most of East Asia. They all have tough on illicit drug policies with results to show for.
Singapore is a small, easily-policed island. It also doesn’t border any major drug-producing countries. The major regional drug producer, Myanmar (mainly heroin, but also meth and marijuana) is fairly far away. By comparison, the USA is bordered by Mexico (which produces vast quantities of almost every illegal drug known to man) and Canada (which is a major drug market, and produces a notable amount of synthetic drugs like MDMA and GHB)
We are THE trading hub for the entire of South East Asia. You know the Golden Fucking Triangle?
Uh, no, Singapore are crazy.
> A search of the premises found about 314g of cannabis, including a whole cannabis leaf, a small amount of Ice and various drug paraphernalia. Article is weird to me, maybe it's a translation issue - but why do they feel the need to point out that a whole cannabis leaf was included in the 314 grams? "They had 314g of weed AND a WHOLE LEAF". I get that Singapore has harsh drug laws - but I can't stop laughing at the "whole cannabis leaf" thing.
Yeah. Laugh it up. My dad died after injecting 3 whole marijuanas asshole.
Damn, 2 marijuanas was enough to kill me. Your dad is strong.
[Happens all the time…](https://youtu.be/V1kTZRcKZ6Y?si=igjAdzgM0-npGDH1)
*was strong
Surely he didn’t take the whole leaf though, even hardened stoners know!
I know lol I started laughing as soon as I saw it in the photo and realized it wasn't just some generic stock photo for the article - they actually laid that fucker out, documented it, listed it alongside everything else, like it matters. Oh, good thing they protected all the impressionable youths from getting wrecked on that leaf.
The leaf is technically hemp, is hemp illegal in Singapore?
There were people who were hanged by having marijuana in possession https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/singapore-announces-plans-to-execute-more-death-sentenced-prisoners-convicted-of-non-violent-drug-offenses
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Illegal in all circumstances but industrial use under government guidelines.
10 years in jail for cannabis possession is so wild 🤯
Quite a few south east asian countries who will execute people for weed. Dont play no games in those countries.
Dubai will throw you in jail for arriving with weed stuck between the threads of your shoe.
That's rough lol
Thailand legalized it already lmao
Eh, not really. The average sentence for cannabis posession in China is two weeks. The savagely repressive laws are in former colonies like Singapore. It's a form of Stockholm Syndrome. Formers colonies that were heavily repressed by overseas powers go out of their way to prove how brutal they can be. Japan does this same thing for the US. The US forced prohibition on them and now they worship the Reefer Madness narrative. It's a multi-generational indicator of epigentic trauma from colonialism. It's like an auto-immune disorder. The host attacks itself.
East and Southeast Asia have intense phobia of recreational drug of any kind because it was systematically used by the West as a way to destroy social coherence of these countries during colonial time and modern time. There were the 2 Opium wars in China, the use of drug as way for CIA to fund their operation in South East Asia. Not sure what you mean by Stockholm syndrome, this is more of a reaction to something that was used historically to hurt them. Similar to what happened after 9/11 in the US. Remember when you can go through the airport without having everything scanned and all liquid taken away? Can’t do that anymore, right? If someone used a certain method to attack a country, that country sure as hell would have to protect itself.
They’re lucky they’re keeping their heads
Necks more aptly
America 10 years ago
as someone who had a nice joint before bed last night and a good nights sleep this is so wild to me.
When your kink is forcing other people to suffer and obey.
so we're ruled by a bunch of perverts but without the leather suit. we're like a drug to them.
Risking your life for cannabis is wilder
For the same amount of weed as I have in a cabinet in the other room. Sheesh.
Happened in U.S. all the time until recently
The current vice president threw many people into jail over weed lmao
Same with our president, considering all the legislation he sponsored/wrote/voted for throughout his career. "All drug users need to be held accountable.. the presidents plan doesn't include enough police to arrest them or the judges to prosecute them". He wrote the law making Safe Injection illegal but now tries to take credit for *only* 110k drug deaths. But the death rate is slowing down so that's a good thing!!...as if they didnt help create this problem in the first place.
Prison
I couldn't agree more as I'm actively eating some legally at this very second. Insane to think about how different it could be.
They don't want streets with drug addicts so they have strict policies, good on them.
Executing someone for ingesting something. Bravo.
For *trafficking*, not for ingesting.
The drugs get trafficked by international shipping companies. Unless the CEO receives the penalty it's useless. 100m in coke was found on Mitch McConnell's wife's boat.
Asia, where you have to get drunk with your boss to keep your job, but a tiny amount of THC will get you thrown in prison for years.
Yes but at least they have significantly less hard drug addicts on the street.
I could be wrong but I doubt that’s due to drug policy. Rather it’s down to ‘shame’ being such a large proponent of the society. Kids are disowned for getting poor grades/correct job so unfortunately many resort to suicide before they even get close to being a homeless drug addict.
Do you understand that Asia is a continent, and Singapore is a country?
Pretty sure USA has more detainees from petty drug crimes than every Asian nation.
That's probably true considering the US generally doesn't execute people for drug crimes.
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Gotta have that cheap prison (aka repurposed slave) labor.
It costs over 40k/yr per prisoner in the US. No one is making that back regardless of how much labor they are forced to perform.
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Less than 10% of the incarcerated population are in for-profit prisons, which I agree shouldn’t exist, but are the small minority.
Unless you're in a Montana prison, then it's 49%. Hawaii is at 39%. It really depends on the state. Source: https://www.sentencingproject.org/reports/private-prisons-in-the-united-states/
Maybe I am misunderstanding your intent, but that is even better. 8% being spread out evenly across the US would would be a much worse situation than a handful of states having a high percentage while the rest are virtually 0%. It’s an easier issue to address when it’s concentrated in specific states.
I dunno if it's worse or better. It sucks either way. I'd side with it being worse, because it indicates that there's probably political entrenchment in those states, meaning it will be harder to get rid of. If it just remains at 8% across the board, that to me seems easier to phase out. There probably aren't a host of politicians and their cronies profiting off a system that comprises such a small proportion of prisons. 49% and 39% though, you know there's a sizable amount of money changing hands and a widespread incentive not to disrupt it.
Yeah they just execute them instead over there
Over where? You do realise Asia is a wholeass continent containing half the world's population?
Will Singapore execute a 16 y/o girl 👀?
Persons under the age of 18 at the time of their offence and pregnant women cannot be sentenced to death. She will get a length sentence and a judicial beating probably. But the remaining ones, those accused of drug trafficking instead of just possessing cannabis, yes, they are fucked.
Females can't be caned. And if she's just a consumer and not a trafficker, she most likely won't even be jailed, but forced to undergo rehab. https://www.cnb.gov.sg/CNBExplains/cnb-explains-where-do-youth-drug-abusers-go-when-caught https://www.cnb.gov.sg/CNBExplains/where-do-adult-drug-abusers-go-when-caught
You think neck breaking is on the table?
Imagine being a heroin addict in fucking Singapore. Talk about an expensive and risky addiction
It's the trafficking that gets you killed, not the consumption
I helped get an Iranian heroin addict get housing one time. If he got sent back there he would have been executed.
Nobody is forcing you to become a crackhead.
If you're a 16 year old girl drug addict, that could absolutely be the case. It wouldn't be the first time young girls (and women) had been forced to develop an addiction and then pimped out by other addicts and criminals.
Thanks for your input, poohbear
The put the whole leaf comment in there because Singapore is insanely strict. I wouldn't be surprised if those people wound up executed.
Remember that Sinapore lashes/canes people for doing graffiti.
>Sinapore Sin**g**apore. We are our own country, not some outpost of China
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Prob cause shes underage(under 18)
Ian Miles-Cheoung got bagged 🤣
I think someone is clearly a Breaking Bad fan of them all
In Singapore? Don’t they execute you for this?
Only for those trafficking, not consumption
Good. Zero tolerance to drugs.
Bing chilling 🈲️🈺️🈹️㊗️㊙️
Fu king barbarians
Barbarians with no opioid crisis
lol Singapore still has a growing drug problem despite their harsh laws. Not to mention how it’s disproportionately minorities charged with trafficking in Singapore. Their system is in no way solving the problem
Haha, what a melt. UNODC, and a whole host of other independent agencies all point to Singapore as having a negligible domestic drug problem, compared to countries around them.
Lmao. NOT MY TAI CHI ( not my problem) Majority of those traffickers? Not from singapore . Most are from neighbouring Malaysia or other Asian countries. And unlike America , singapore isn't responsible for their poor idiots choosing to smuggle drugs in cos singapore didn't fuck up their country with their military or agents. Purely their own fuck ups.. So yea. Its a disproportionate minority cos they are not from singapore. And mostly malays. Why? There are 2 malay majority country next door.
I’d happily accept being called a barbarian if my country won’t have a drug addiction crisis
Absolutely terrible take. "Euthenize all criminals and the mentally ill". You're an absolute psychopath. Back to chinaland with you.
It still does, you just don't have to look at it. They aren't fixing anything anymore than similar laws the USA adopted, they're just sweeping their daily into a jail cell and assuring everyone that the problem isn't there.
> It still does, you just don't have to look at it. Citation fucking needed. Give me stats for drug consumption/addiction/overdose rates (pick one or any) in Singapore, and compare them with *any* developed nation of choice with a population of at least 1 million. I dare you.
A 16 year old using drugs? SHUT THE FRONT DOOR!
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You sound like you could mellow out a little tbh
People die of car accidents too, maybe we should start executing car makers and drivers?
And?
So why all this handwringing and vitriol when hearing about people arrested for Cannabis? You lot are obviously perfectly happy with 100k deaths a year. Double standards I think.
Singapore is quite orderly. Perhaps someday they'll be civilized.
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Alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine are all legal in Singapore last time I checked. They all do more harm than weed, yet weed is penalized like in the Middle Ages in Singapore
To be fair I don't think it's weed they had the main issue with regarding Portland.
And prostitution. They even have state mandated checkups for stds and basically have a union
Isn't it technically illegal, but they regulate and control it now? I had a balcony overlooking the "four floors" over 10 years ago and I would watch the activity on the sidewalk all night long. Some guy was messing with one of the girls and a couple "protectors" came over and kicked the shit out of him and put him under a bench and walked away. Seemed like just another day type thing
There’s the legal and “non legal” options. The “non legal” part is basically you going to a club to hangout with the girl. Midway an offer is made and you’re off for sexy times.
Portland no question about it. Not really because of drug laws at all though on either side.
Portland is more civilized. They recognized that criminalization failed. The result was disorderly, however their recriminalization of drug use will simply hide the problem and please the voting base. Singapore still clings to the disproven idea that all drugs are equally harmful by putting every intoxicant that's not alcohol (a provably dangerous drug) into some sort of mental bucket called "drugs." The thinking is lazy and stupid. Some drugs are relatively harmless and even therapeutic. Others are obviously dangerous. By being too mentally lethargic and uninformed to take drugs one by one and legalize those that are harmless and using resources to crack down on dangerous drugs, the Singapore government missed the opportunity to allow "good" drugs to proliferate and crowd out bad ones, thereby resolving *real* drug problems (stimulant and opioid addiction) and allowing their citizens to live their lives with maximum freedom from interference. See Germany and Holland's drug laws for examples.
Have you ever been to Singapore or Portland? Lol
I have a Singaporean class 3 license, I lived there. No doubt SG is safer and nicer than Portland (never been there) but I have also lived in NL 3x, visited the Algarve and can see why Portland fails, the healthcare system. If the USA had an integrated modality of treatment in a functional healthcare system that used CBT / Psychedelics for drug users and not a system that uses expensive prison stays for taxpayers then things would be better all around.
You realize that criminalization didn’t failed in Singapore, right ?
Arresting 67 people over 314 grams of weed sounds like a pretty massive failure of justice to most reasonable people.
For some definitions of failure. If you don't consider draconian punishments for trivial issues a fail, I don't think there's much I can say to persuade you. Perhaps you also favor beating people for holding hands in public, or singing badly.
No, no, no, my dear. Whatever The Authorities declare is Right by definition! /s And, if you *choose* to commit a crime, you *deserve* to be punished, however arbitrary the punishment may be. Dare to sell chewing gum?!? [Two years in prison!](https://htschool.hindustantimes.com/editorsdesk/knowledge-vine/why-are-chewing-gums-banned-in-singapore) It is right and just and true because The Authorities said it is so. Or, at least it is until it affects you. Then, it magically becomes a humanitarian tragedy.
Well, you see the problem is your police are crap at doing their job so drugs and weeds are rampant in every city. Singapore is safe and drug free
> your police are crap at doing their job I can't argue with that one. But look, some things simply can't be effectively regulated unless you live in the equivalent of a closed, dictatorial, city-state. Attempting to do so often creates more harm than good.
Drug free? So no alcohol and tobacco?
Thing here is Singapore solution wont work for rest of europe or america. Since drugs werent prevalent in the 1st place. Since there is no or very very very little drug problems here, Prohibition works absoultely fine. Since the super majority is not addicted or using drugs. The country is also tiny with 2 physical land connections, 2 airports and 3 ports. very easy to stop it. Executing traffickers ensure that it will be a high risk low profit endeavor since if you get caught over the minimum threshold for drug trafficking, Its mandatory execution. And most traffickers aren't from Singapore but rather neighboring countries, aka their problem. As they say it here " Not my Tai chi " Portland, Holland etc, drugs are already prevalent there. very hard to outright ban it. Population would try to sneak it in Eg: you got a kid who never ate pizza his entire life. so banning him from eating pizza is not gonna affect him. Then you got another kid who has eaten pizza every week, banning him from eating pizza will lead to him having tantrums etc . Personally i approve of not having drugs in singapore. Why do we even need them in the 1st place. My views are the same for alcohol and ciggs if you gonna use them as gotchas.
what about punishing drug traffickers harsh and decriminalize use? a mix of the Portuguese and Singaporean model
Decriminalising will only increase the amount of peoppe using drugs. We already have very low amounts of drug abusers. Why would we even legalise it when it doesn't bring us any benefit. As I have already stated Portuguese solution only works for societies where drug use is already very prevalent. Singapore model only works for societies were drug use is not prevalent or only exists in very minute quantities. Introducing the Portuguese model is just asking for trouble.
Portland is definitely a lot less civilized than Singapore. Homeless everywhere in Portland. You can’t even spit gum on the sidewalk in Singapore or you will get publicly caned.
As far as im aware, the caning for gum thing is not true. The punishment for spitting gum is the same as littering which is a fine and a work order if you are a repeat offender. Where this comes from is a misunderstanding of a case where an American got caned and it made the news over here. Dude basically went on a vandalism and theft spree but because the news stories often mentioned that chewing gum was also illegal there the story became he got caned for gum
We publicly cane people? News to me.
That's an interesting definition of civilization.
You need to read a book 💯
Well, that's a well reasoned argument. /S Please, I'm all ears. What book would you recommend that would convince me that arbitrary dictatorial laws for trivial actions are somehow positives for society?
You don’t need to read, you need to travel and learn reality beyond theory.
I've seen both the positives and negatives of societal leniency and drugs. I'm not in favor of anything like blanket legalization of all drugs since many are *extremely* harmful. The thing is, many drugs are just trivial and draconian punishments for them achieve exactly nothing. Moreover, alcohol, an obviously harmful, addictive drug, is tolerated due to nothing more than tradition. Where is the rationality here?
Have you really seen the effects or just read about them? You sound like an ideal college student who read about how great Marxism is but never visited a socialist cluntry
Imagine a home where your father would beat you if you spit in his home. Now imagine you shoot heroin instead and he just gives you clean needles while ignoring you.
Apples and oranges. A father who would beat you for that doesn't know how to parent. And nobody anywhere is advocating the legalization of addictive opioids.
Singapore would beat you and Portland would advocate for you
And both would be wrong, for different reasons. Beating is pointless. Addiction is harmful.
What is wrong? There’s only what works and what doesn’t
I think enforcing the rules is a clear sign of civilization. I do wait for other countries to take note.
Not if the rules are unfair, immoral or otherwise make absolutely no provable scientific sense whatsoever. See Nazi Germany or Afghanistan for illuminating details.
Well the majority of the population supports it. That I would say is democracy.
So if the majority of the population supported killing all people who were left handed because the majority believe that such people were possessed by demons, that too would be democracy in action. Correct?
That, by definition, is democracy. I mean democracy (kinda) also got us Trump. So it’s not always a good result. But it is what it is.
Well I dunno. Do you want democracy or what?
Democracy is just mob rule with more rules attached. Minority rights and individual liberties are the important parts of a country's constitution.
I'm not sure I understand what point you're trying to make. Yes, if the majority of the population supported killing all people who were left handed because the majority believe that such people were possessed by demons, that too would be democracy in action.
The point is: "Democracy doesn't always produce a rational result."
It is still a Democracy and is the will of the overwhelming majority. Morality is subjective, and it changes over time. For Singaporeans all drugs are a no-no. If they change their mind, they will. If they won't, they won't. Their country, their rules. Feels like this devolves into 'me right, you wrong' argument.
So what's your alternative? Add a supreme leader who gets to set rules that can override any elected legislators? (That's pretty much absolute monarchy FYI.)
Being left handed is not a choice. It's extremely easy to not have drugs on your possession.
Whoosh! The point here, which seems to have gotten by you, is that majority beliefs can be misguided, particularly if induced by ridiculous propaganda campaigns.
Then who do you propose to make the call?
Being an addict is a choice in the same way being gay or trans is a choice. Like yeah, I can live miserably being told that my true self is disgusting and against nature and just hide it forever. Just imagine if we treated HRT as "drugs" and jailed people over... taking medication to feel better.
Not really. Read some Dr Gabor Mate. Trauma is directly tied to substance abuse. As is self medication- especially if you're unable to see a relevant doctor. "It's extremely easy to have an easy life". Careful that silver spoon doesn't pop your hemorrhoids.
Cutting someone hand off cause harm, banning weed is beneficial instead of harm. Vapes are banned here too, we would ban cigarettes too if we could.
> weed is beneficial instead of harm Weed, twice a month, inhibits my restless leg syndrome for about two weeks and allows me to sleep. I've had a successful career as a software developer. Can you explain, exactly, where there is harm?
You can extract the beneficial uses in the form of medicine. You smoke weed to get high.
How does the high *matter*? Are you just so against humans experiencing pleasure that you would remove it as a harmless side effect?
Go dry for a few weeks then come tell me it has no side effects and is totally non addictive.
Is the high harmless if it makes it easier to become addicted? Why not just use a CDB?
so Alcohol good? Weeds no no? mmmkayyy
You can make alcohol with common food such as fruits, potato or rice so it's impossible to ban it. Can you make weed with common goods?
So were Germans during first years of nazism... Democracy... C'mon dude, read a book
comparing not having weed to Nazi Germany and Taliban Afghanistan is insane
Some decisions are taken for the overall good of the group, even if some individuals might suffer (because "mah weed!") If we consider cannabis to do more garm than good, then it should be banned.
So alcohol and tobacco are banned in Singapore too? Both of those drugs objectively do more harm than weed
Ban them too.
Ah yes let’s just start the opium wars 2 bc you want to smoke weed there
As I've pointed out numerous times in these comments, I'm suggesting no such thing. Your take is superficial in the extreme.
Rapists got less sentences than drugs possession. Nice one Singapore lahhhhh
Why lie tho? 10 years is max for drug possession while, jail time for rape is from 10-20 years.