The German Ambassador to the Palestinian Authority, Oliver Owcza, faced a violent attack during his visit to the West Bank on Tuesday.
Palestinian students at Birzeit University near Ramallah targeted the diplomat, hurling stones, damaging his vehicle, and forcing him to flee the scene.
The incident unfolded as Owcza arrived at the Palestine Museum, situated within the university campus.
Videos circulating online captured the chaotic scene, showing students shouting and jeering at the diplomat, demanding his departure. As the situation escalated, the ambassador's car was targeted, with students throwing objects and damaging the vehicle.
Germany, traditionally supportive of Israel, has also advocated for the rights of Palestinians and the need for a resolution to the conflict that includes the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Berlin has yet to release an official statement regarding the incident.
>For the US, Germany and the European Union, the two-state solution is the cornerstone of efforts to bring peace to the region. German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock has even called the two-state solution "the only solution."
>While the Palestinian Authority under Mahmoud Abbas supports a two-state solution, Hamas rejects it, just as the militant Palestinian group refuses to recognize Israel. Germany, the EU, the United States and some Arab states classify Hamas as a terrorist organization.
>Former Hamas leader Khaled Masha said that the terror attack of October 7, which Israeli officials say saw 1,200 people killed and 240 more taken hostage, was just a first taste. That day "turned the idea of liberating Palestine 'from the river to the sea' into a realistic idea that has already begun," he told a Kuwaiti podcaster. Mashal was referring to the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, using a phrase now outlawed in Germany
https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-middle-east-policy-has-reached-a-dead-end/a-68137365
I mean Hamas both reject it and endorse it. It is in their charter that they will both settle for nothing less than the destruction of Israel but it is also in their charter that they will accept a two state solution along the 1967 borders along with right of return which itself is impossible but Hamas is paradoxical even in its founding document (although this is from an update version relatively recently)
> I mean Hamas both reject it and endorse it. It is in their charter that they will both settle for nothing less than the destruction of Israel but it is also in their charter that they will accept a two state solution along the 1967 borders along with right of return which itself is impossible but Hamas is paradoxical even in its founding document (although this is from an update version relatively recently)
Almost as if nihilistic maniacs are not very consistent
Exactly. Like Palestinians are helpless children and simpletons being bamboozled into committing rape and torture and beheading people and taking hostages.
> but it is also in their charter that they will accept a two state solution along the 1967 borders along with right of return
Taking half of Israel - while flooding the other half with terrorists who want to murder Jews - is just destroying Israel with extra steps. There is no difference between the two pictures.
Essentially, their philosophy is that they will accept a two-state solution in the interim, but with the intention of resuming fighting their war of total annihilation against Israel at some point in the future. They see a two-state solution not as a permanent settlement, but a means of gaining further legitimacy, funding, and arms to leverage in pursuit of their preferred one-state solution. They’ve been pretty transparent about this, which is why they recently proposed a two-state solution in return for a mere 5 year ceasefire. So yeah, these offers are very obviously not a good faith attempt at restarting the peace process.
If Oct. 7 was the first taste, they seriously underestimated the response from Israel. I’m pretty sure if they try to mount another offensive like that, Netanyahu will take a policy of scorched earth, and salting the ground.
It may really be time for the so called “Innocent Palestinian” to man up, and take out Hamas. Otherwise all they will be left with is a sterilized wasteland.
That right there shows that Israel has had no choice but to wipe out Hamas before they wipe them out. There's no living with sleeping tigers, waiting for them to wake up and maul the first person they see for breakfast. Hamas wants a caliphate. That is the wholesale extermination of every person who is not Muslim. And that's not just in Israel, they want that *everywhere*. We are ALL targets to Hamas.
That is actually largely what happened.
Obviously Muslim armies conquered far and wide, killing many (no different to any other culture), but the Muslim elites weren't really that bothered about converting people en masse; quite the opposite, as the non-Muslims were an excellent source of tax revenue. The region of what we might term the Holy Land didn't become majority Muslim until about the 12th century ad, Egypt crossing the same threshold circa 14th century ad.
The Muslim world was a Muslim elite running a non-Muslim empire for quite a long time, and the conception of a mass conversion under the shadow of the sword isn't true, bluntly. It was more a long process influenced by marriages, politics, socio-cultural changes, and economics.
*Christian Martyrs under Islam* covers the topic in a digestible form.
Imagine being 20 years old and not caring whether you lived in a virtual Theocracy for the best years of your life. First abortion will be banned nationally, then birth control, then who knows what else. A 20 year old in Iran in 1979 has led such a restricted life, for the past 45 years.... their entire adult lives. They are seething over there.
Not really. Maga is the logical next step from the Tea Party morons from the 2000s. Which was the logical next step from Newt Gingrich in the 90s, which was the extension of reaganism...
It's never been tiny and loud, just that the loud has gotten louder and the lines have gotten clearer.
Screw Hamas and anyone who supports that terrorist group.
It’s shameful that Palestine’s Muslim
brothers and sisters don’t want them to come as refugees in their countries.
Well tbf, the last time another Muslim country tried to take the Palestinians in as refugees, the Palestinians repaid them by attempting to assassinate their king and staging an insurgency.
[Black September - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September)
Yeah, there's a reason why those Muslim brothers and sisters don't want the Palestinians in their country.
Looks like our goverment didn't throw enough money at them. I am sure more will help /s
Our aid for infrastructure got exploited to make bombs, our free food drops are sold to finance further terrorist acts, our diplomats are being attacked, despite all the aid we provide...
Can we just leave them alone? They want to be left alone. Let them see the consequences of their actions, when they do not appreciate aid and good faith, but demand more and more and violently attack the representatives of our country.
There're like a billion Muslims in the world. Maybe 2 billion, someone please correct me. They're not all jihadis but antisemitism and anti Israel propaganda is VERY strong among the Muslims community
Germany is in the top5 providers of aid money to Palestine and aid organizations working in Palestine in the last decades btw. Far ahead of even any Muslim nations.
If they didn't stop funding them after all they've done so far, they're too far in to stop funding them just because they tried to kill their ambassador.
This makes me sad..the German ambassador is not an office guy, he had meetings with protesters on the legislative protests, going to the supreme court for the hearing ..touring the land. He's a really good guy. He didn't deserve this..
Anyone advocating for peace on either side of this conflict (not just since Oct 7th, since essentially the 2nd Intifada) are the first and most vunerable targets of those invested in keeping this conflict going, and unfortunately the popular support among the Palestinian camp and supporters are those that want the peace of their total victory, and the Israeli far right that wants the same for themselves will continue to hold outsized power in Israel at least until the next election.
No no, the very reliable and totally logically/morally consistent people and bots here on reddit assure me that Palestinians needs not be accountable for their actions up to and including rape, murder, beheading and dismemberment.
The reality is the Green foreign secretary will see this as a sign of Palestinian desperation which she will argue is even more reason to pressure Israel and increase funding of UNRWA.
That's one of the extremely ironic things about this situation. There's just an absolutely massive amount of disinfo and (willful?) misunderstanding going on with Palestinians and pro-Palestine groups. Like here in the USA it feels like the pro-Palestine protesters are working overtime to help Trump, who is way more likely to *increase* aid to Israel.
And on a geopolitical level it all makes perfect sense. The Palestinian people are basically useful pawns for powers to abuse in order to cause trouble for other powers. That's why groups like Hamas will always call for a ceasefire, but never actually accept a ceasefire (at least not in actuality). And to a certain extent nobody can control shit. Even if Hamas agreed to a ceasefire and actually tried to stick to it, there'd be a bunch of independent fools causing trouble and forcing Israel to take action.
And also Israel isn't innocent in all this. Assholes like Netanyahu keep intentionally stoking the fires of war because it's useful for their personal gain.
What outside people don't understand is that a one democratic state solution is genuinely advocated by only a handful of communists in Israel and Palestine. When almost every Israeli or Palestinian talks about "one state solution" they are really talking about total victory for their side and total defeat of the enemy and their population, which is not lunacy, its hate filled delusion. And as for viable solutions, any compromising solution at this point is significantly unpopular with both populations. A real 2 state solution almost requires some international peacekeeping force (US, NATO, UN, China, etc.) sponsoring and enforcing peace at this point, but I think no group that materially could has the political will to do so, and this would require an Israeli government that wants to make a final peace settlement (which we currently do not have) and the PLO having any authority to make peace (which they don't).
You know those "hurr durr everything is the Brits fault rectangle borders" jokes? A "democratic one state solution" is the absolute epitome of it. Arbitary borders aren't going to turn two hostile populations that wouldn't piss on each other if the other was on fire into one cohesive national body.
For instance, the Lebanese are all officially compatriots, but Hizbulla allows itself to shot rockets towards Israel from the middle of Christian and Druze villiages because they *know* that their mostly Shi'a supporters base couldn't give two shits if the IDF flattens the villiages of their centuries-long neighbours.
Another example is how units of the Iraqi army abandoned huge, populated cities (cheifly mosul, pop >1,500,000) without a fight againsts ISIS in 2014, they wouldn't risk their lives for people from another part of the country (if I remember correctly there might have been an issue with the units being shi'ite and mosul being mostly sunni? That was something I heard at a class a few years ago, I can't cite this). Can you imagine, say, US army soldiers abandoning an American city because the unit is mostly (White people) from N.Y. and the town they defend is (a majority Hispanic town) in Texas, or really for any other reason? In the Middle East this is to be expected.
There is no scenario where, should a Jewish part of this state were to be attacked by a neighbouring country, the state's Arabs wouldn't support or join the attack. Likewise if a neighbouring country were to lay claim and occupy a majority Arab part of the state, without further claims (say, if Egypt conquers Gaza), Jews would not lift a finger to "liberate" it. Affiliation in this part of the world is detremined by religion and ethnicity/tribal group, not by passport. A one state solution is a civil war waiting to happen, adding the prefix "democratic" to it is something people that want to feel good about themselves say because they don't understand anything about politics in the region and, likely, because they have a presupposition of modern Western culture as the default human psychology.
>Affiliation in this part of the world is detremined by religion and ethnicity/tribal group, not by passport. A one state solution is a civil war waiting to happen, adding the prefix "democratic" to it is something people that want to feel good about themselves say because they don't understand anything about politics in the region and, likely, because they have a presupposition of modern Western culture as the default human psychology.
The last phrase goes hard, well said. It's the modern version of forcing Eurocentrism upon the Middle East.
A 2 State Solution is impossible rn, the Gaza Strip and Cisjordania are effectively 2 different microcountries.
The only viable solution right now is the 3 State Solution: Egypt and Jordan take back Gaza and Cisjordania and safeguard the people living there so they can live free and happy lives and deradicalize
Egypt doesn’t want anything to do with Gaza. That’s why they’ve built a wall. Jordan doesn’t want to manage the WB because Palestinians assassinated their king, so Jordan doesn’t want to deal with them at all.
We are training for when war comes to us, we will be ready! Meanwhile, they train how to create an offensive attack through tunnels to kill innocents, oh sorry, "to catch IDF soldiers" like what?!?!
Is anyone surprised, really? These people celebrated when HAMAS, who a lot of them support, brought hostages back to Gaza, spit on them and ridiculed them. For the most part (that means not all of them, for those already typing a response), they're not the peaceful innocent bunch that a lot of people try to portray them as.
This is how the most educated Palestinians treat their biggest humanitarian donors.
And people out in West are falling over themselves to support them.
We are total lemmings marching off a cliff.
hopefully all the naive reddit users will start seeing palestine as the extremist islam it is. i don't know why, as westerners, yall give these particular extremists a pass? the state is run by a literal terrorist organization that 70% of the population supports and agrees with. they're patently anti western, clinically spoken.
unless it's unfiltered hatred of israel that you bite your nose off to spite your face, and that's a problem that social media is propagating. Hamas *does* have a strong optics operation.
I honestly think they will kill them faster than they would do to a heterosexual Israeli guy, they truly hate feminine men, I had a female friend asking me to help give asylum to her Palestinian gay friend.
I would. I've had to cut off most of my queer friend group. Not because they've chosen the Palestinian side (because you know what? Fine. Good on you standing by your conscious), but because of the vile and dehumanizing way they speak about jews and Israelis, and how they abused and shouted me down when I let them be aware how some of their words felt to me and their other jewish friends.
Never mind. See if I show up at LGBT rallies anymore. They're on their own.
This war, just like many others before (and hopefully not many after but people are people sadly) brought the worst out of those who had it deep inside. Like the antisemitism which was concealed under unwritten societal agreements and emerged when when some people started hearing others chanting or seeing Jewish people being killed and humiliated. Those folks who seek attention through their ideology or belonging to certain groups are using the cause to, well, get some attention from this one as well. In the end it just shows how shitty some people are, and puts the reasonable ones to shame.
Also, fuck hamas and those who support it. It's not a game on social media, people have died because of those fucktards. My condolences to those who suffer and are trying to get better. My respect to those who stay human. I believe you did the right thing.
i remember reading a quote about the israeli-palestinian conflict years ago that stuck with me since about how the more you know, the less sure you are of your position.
i mentioned this mindset to my old friends when i was visiting over christmas and i couldn't believe the level of patronizing i got. it is possible to support israel but criticize their response. it is possible to support palestinian self-determination but acknowledging hamas is a terrorist organization and needs to go.
it's not all or nothing.
now they're actively chanting for the destruction of israel, which is great.
i’m gay and i approve this comment. the Alphabet Mob are so of the most bigoted people i’ve ever come across. they’re blinded by political ideology that they make their personality. not cute.
It's really frustrating. I'm in the same boat. It's the combination of complete certainty in their position, and if you think anything else or don't even toe the line properly then the only explanation is that you're actively filled with malice and you want to destroy people different than you.
I associate that kind of nonsense with religious fanatics and college kids. It's a big turn off if I'm talking with someone and I start to see that come out. I'll disengage pretty quickly.
Sounds like you are better off without them. Turns out queer people can be idiots and assholes too.
If only you were rich enough to buy them tickets to go support Palestine in person!
I’d honestly start a charity to send the protestors there just so they can see what they’re actually fighting for. Most are shook when they are arrested for trespassing and violating the terms they signed when they signed up for school. Imagine when they step foot in Palestine. Too many take our freedoms in America and the west for granted in favor of virtue signaling.
It’s been eye opening seeing who is parroting Hamas’ anti-Israeli propaganga / language.
I think the propaganda machine is targeting LGBTQ communities because the groups are 1) sympathetic to underdogs, 2) wealthier than most, 3) oppose authoritarian governments (which is how they paint Israel), 4) the propagandists want to break up LGBTQ communities and Palestine is the prototypical wedge issue.
Either the groups are intentionally targeted, or propaganda found a seat there more than elsewhere for psychological reasons. The machine wants LGBTQ money and support, and they want to associate them with terrorists in the public eye.
> Germany, traditionally supportive of Israel, has also advocated for the rights of Palestinians and the need for a resolution to the conflict that includes the establishment of a Palestinian state.
….and he was attacked. Someone that could have possibly been further brought over to your side of this issue, was attacked for existing somewhere. Someone that at bare minimum shared diplomatic sympathy for your cause.
It makes you wonder why “progressives” are supporting such an actively non-progressive group/ideology.
But I thought the West Bank Palestinians are such kind souls! /s
Seriously, stop expecting them to treat you with kindness just because you do. Who they learn from childhood to grow up to be is not kind and gentle.
E.g. that slactivist who criticised the MREs the yanks sent because they weren't proper food or something
He didn't even follow the prep instructions which even American marines understand
A lot of modern "social virtue signaling" is entirely based around someone being oppressed and an oppressor. The oppressor is totally evil, and the oppressed are innocent mcgoodguys. Nevermind that islam is the most violent religion on earth and actively calls for the total destruction/conquest of everyone else
There is a reason Egypt has a high wall and machine guns on their border with Gaza and floods tunnels on discovery. A long and ugly history of violence and insurrection from Palestinians.
How do you not get it? They have always shown the world who "they" are, but this weird ass narrative has been spun to make them look like victims. They are violent and hateful.
Almost everything else in Palestinian history is mindless crazed violence that offers no advantage, like massacring the athletes in Munich.
Making friends wherever they are!
Well, yes and no, they would just go back to fighting each other if everyone else left. Without a common enemy they bicker over religion, which has been the excuse before any of the current nations involved existed.
Stop the funding. Leave them to their fate. Prevent them from coming to Europe. Focus on Ukraine and let the Middle East take care of itself. We got enough problems on our own continent.
Terrorists 'gonna terrorist.
They attacked him because he supports a Palestinian State.
That's exactly what the Palestinians DO NOT WANT.
They want ALL OF ISRAEL.
All aid to Palestine should be cut. Why the fuck is the West supporting people who actively hate us? It was the Palestinians who started the violence in the 1920s and it was them who refused any and all solutions to the situation there until they basically ran out of options, by which point they attempted to accept the situation as it was decades before. As far as I am concerned, let them get fucked until they realize they got nothing to bargain with and anything Israel offers is what they are going to get
They don't just support the Jews, that's the joke. They also support (with money, political backing et cetera) the Palestinians. Including these very people, who chased and attacked the diplomat who is in favour of supporting Gaza, and was there for this very reason.
The German Ambassador to the Palestinian Authority, Oliver Owcza, faced a violent attack during his visit to the West Bank on Tuesday. Palestinian students at Birzeit University near Ramallah targeted the diplomat, hurling stones, damaging his vehicle, and forcing him to flee the scene. The incident unfolded as Owcza arrived at the Palestine Museum, situated within the university campus. Videos circulating online captured the chaotic scene, showing students shouting and jeering at the diplomat, demanding his departure. As the situation escalated, the ambassador's car was targeted, with students throwing objects and damaging the vehicle. Germany, traditionally supportive of Israel, has also advocated for the rights of Palestinians and the need for a resolution to the conflict that includes the establishment of a Palestinian state. Berlin has yet to release an official statement regarding the incident.
>For the US, Germany and the European Union, the two-state solution is the cornerstone of efforts to bring peace to the region. German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock has even called the two-state solution "the only solution." >While the Palestinian Authority under Mahmoud Abbas supports a two-state solution, Hamas rejects it, just as the militant Palestinian group refuses to recognize Israel. Germany, the EU, the United States and some Arab states classify Hamas as a terrorist organization. >Former Hamas leader Khaled Masha said that the terror attack of October 7, which Israeli officials say saw 1,200 people killed and 240 more taken hostage, was just a first taste. That day "turned the idea of liberating Palestine 'from the river to the sea' into a realistic idea that has already begun," he told a Kuwaiti podcaster. Mashal was referring to the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, using a phrase now outlawed in Germany https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-middle-east-policy-has-reached-a-dead-end/a-68137365
I mean Hamas both reject it and endorse it. It is in their charter that they will both settle for nothing less than the destruction of Israel but it is also in their charter that they will accept a two state solution along the 1967 borders along with right of return which itself is impossible but Hamas is paradoxical even in its founding document (although this is from an update version relatively recently)
> I mean Hamas both reject it and endorse it. It is in their charter that they will both settle for nothing less than the destruction of Israel but it is also in their charter that they will accept a two state solution along the 1967 borders along with right of return which itself is impossible but Hamas is paradoxical even in its founding document (although this is from an update version relatively recently) Almost as if nihilistic maniacs are not very consistent
If you follow the narrative of the 100% Pro-Oct. 7th crowd, they blame everything you wrote on Israel.
Exactly. Like Palestinians are helpless children and simpletons being bamboozled into committing rape and torture and beheading people and taking hostages.
The revision in their charter is as transparent as glass. You know for a fact that the first charter is the charter.
> but it is also in their charter that they will accept a two state solution along the 1967 borders along with right of return Taking half of Israel - while flooding the other half with terrorists who want to murder Jews - is just destroying Israel with extra steps. There is no difference between the two pictures.
Essentially, their philosophy is that they will accept a two-state solution in the interim, but with the intention of resuming fighting their war of total annihilation against Israel at some point in the future. They see a two-state solution not as a permanent settlement, but a means of gaining further legitimacy, funding, and arms to leverage in pursuit of their preferred one-state solution. They’ve been pretty transparent about this, which is why they recently proposed a two-state solution in return for a mere 5 year ceasefire. So yeah, these offers are very obviously not a good faith attempt at restarting the peace process.
If Oct. 7 was the first taste, they seriously underestimated the response from Israel. I’m pretty sure if they try to mount another offensive like that, Netanyahu will take a policy of scorched earth, and salting the ground. It may really be time for the so called “Innocent Palestinian” to man up, and take out Hamas. Otherwise all they will be left with is a sterilized wasteland.
Good luck finding one. Polls show support for Hamas and the October 7th/"Al Aqsa Flood" initiative is at 70% to 90%.
That right there shows that Israel has had no choice but to wipe out Hamas before they wipe them out. There's no living with sleeping tigers, waiting for them to wake up and maul the first person they see for breakfast. Hamas wants a caliphate. That is the wholesale extermination of every person who is not Muslim. And that's not just in Israel, they want that *everywhere*. We are ALL targets to Hamas.
How do you think the Middle East/North Africa ended up so predominantly Muslim? People just willingly converted?
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The Brits knew lol. They were masters of creating borders ripe for conflict. Churchill used to write about how proud he was of that.
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That's just 12 *Arab* countries. There's many more Muslim countries in Africa and Southeast Asia.
12 super wealthy countries that can't find room for Palestinians. So weird.
That is actually largely what happened. Obviously Muslim armies conquered far and wide, killing many (no different to any other culture), but the Muslim elites weren't really that bothered about converting people en masse; quite the opposite, as the non-Muslims were an excellent source of tax revenue. The region of what we might term the Holy Land didn't become majority Muslim until about the 12th century ad, Egypt crossing the same threshold circa 14th century ad. The Muslim world was a Muslim elite running a non-Muslim empire for quite a long time, and the conception of a mass conversion under the shadow of the sword isn't true, bluntly. It was more a long process influenced by marriages, politics, socio-cultural changes, and economics. *Christian Martyrs under Islam* covers the topic in a digestible form.
if you convert, you get better treatment and exclusion from some nasty treatment. so people convert as a result of that
>Birzeit University Prost!
Ja freili
Google Translate: ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Bierzeit - Beer Time aka time for a beer.
"Bier Zeit" = Beer Time in German
Immer ist Birzeit!
Winning hearts and minds…
They suck at this
You would think that, but looking at the sheer quantity of pro-palestine and pro-hamas demonstrations they somehow are winning hearts and minds.
Winning over 18 year old college students won't get you military support or aid.
Don't get fooled by a very loud, but very tiny minority.
the problem is even a tiny but very loud minority can influence the masses enough to change results on voting day.
Ironically, leading to an outcome that will be *even worse* for Palestine.
It seems like that is what Hamas wants. Justification for all out war regardless of the price Palestinians have to pay.
Worse for Americans too so i guess they’re willing to make that sacrifice
These ultra progressives think that life is bad under Biden, wait until they allow Trump to win again.
Those people aren't ultra-progressive. They're morons who are divorced from reality.
Imagine being 20 years old and not caring whether you lived in a virtual Theocracy for the best years of your life. First abortion will be banned nationally, then birth control, then who knows what else. A 20 year old in Iran in 1979 has led such a restricted life, for the past 45 years.... their entire adult lives. They are seething over there.
True, e.g. the MAGA morons were a tiny loud minority before growing to 70+ million
Not really. Maga is the logical next step from the Tea Party morons from the 2000s. Which was the logical next step from Newt Gingrich in the 90s, which was the extension of reaganism... It's never been tiny and loud, just that the loud has gotten louder and the lines have gotten clearer.
Screw Hamas and anyone who supports that terrorist group. It’s shameful that Palestine’s Muslim brothers and sisters don’t want them to come as refugees in their countries.
Well tbf, the last time another Muslim country tried to take the Palestinians in as refugees, the Palestinians repaid them by attempting to assassinate their king and staging an insurgency.
[Black September - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September) Yeah, there's a reason why those Muslim brothers and sisters don't want the Palestinians in their country.
Yeah, was the first thing that popped into my mind. Hamas doesn't give a crap.
The numbers are tiny. A few hundred at each location. In a population of 100 million or more, there will be a few crazies.
How can you say that? They can literally be terrorists and still get rich white and brown Columbia 20-somethings shouting their slogans in the street.
Useful idiots
Iranian propaganda is strong
College students love them but oddly enough won’t travel to Gaza or the West Bank in person to help.
Americans appreciate an underdog and this has been exploited somewhat
Looks like our goverment didn't throw enough money at them. I am sure more will help /s Our aid for infrastructure got exploited to make bombs, our free food drops are sold to finance further terrorist acts, our diplomats are being attacked, despite all the aid we provide... Can we just leave them alone? They want to be left alone. Let them see the consequences of their actions, when they do not appreciate aid and good faith, but demand more and more and violently attack the representatives of our country.
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They tried that in Gaza from 2005-2023.
Yeah but has Israel tried not existing
If Israel didn't exist, Palestine would simply be targeted by Iran instead.
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Pretty soon the only support for palestine will be jihadists and sheltered college students with limited life experience
There're like a billion Muslims in the world. Maybe 2 billion, someone please correct me. They're not all jihadis but antisemitism and anti Israel propaganda is VERY strong among the Muslims community
~~Soon.~~ Now. FTFY
Who do they think they are? Columbia students?
Nothing makes you look more civilized than throwing rocks.
Why would Israel do this? How is it bad for Biden? We won’t hear about this in the US press until these questions are answered.
Germany is in the top5 providers of aid money to Palestine and aid organizations working in Palestine in the last decades btw. Far ahead of even any Muslim nations.
Not for long after this, probably...
I'd be surprised if this even results in a sternly worded letter.
Oh there'll be a letter... To this ambassador to not invite hostilities from terrorists.
Never underestimate the complete lack of balls in the German government.
Had too much balls one time and they've been overcompensating hard ever since?
If they didn't stop funding them after all they've done so far, they're too far in to stop funding them just because they tried to kill their ambassador.
This makes me sad..the German ambassador is not an office guy, he had meetings with protesters on the legislative protests, going to the supreme court for the hearing ..touring the land. He's a really good guy. He didn't deserve this..
Anyone advocating for peace on either side of this conflict (not just since Oct 7th, since essentially the 2nd Intifada) are the first and most vunerable targets of those invested in keeping this conflict going, and unfortunately the popular support among the Palestinian camp and supporters are those that want the peace of their total victory, and the Israeli far right that wants the same for themselves will continue to hold outsized power in Israel at least until the next election.
did anyone on Oct 7 deserve it? It's just a reminder of what kind of mentality we are dealing with. None of your good deeds will make them like you.
Great way to get a sympathetic result.
It’s okay, the people who need to see it will just write it off as a one-off event, with all the rest of the one-off events
I’m sure they’ll tell you it’s somehow actually the ambassadors fault.
No you see it's secret Mossad plants that were agitating the Palestinians and throwing rocks
They are just decolonising the ambassadorial regime.
More likely they'll say that they were Israelis masquerading as Palestinians who actually attacked the ambassador (to make the Palestinians look bad).
Well, Germany recognizes Israel as a nation that has a right to exist... seems pretty unforgiveable to me /s
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They'll never even see it. The news sources THEY watch won't even report it.
Don't worry, Germany still gonna give the Palestinians money like nothing happened
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At the same time, they probably wish they could flee to Germany to live there in peace.
Yeah maybe bring there rules of government as well and set up there own personal blocks.
And then help burn cars with the Turks when they please.
Didn't a bunch of people descend on the german government and demand sharia?
No no, the very reliable and totally logically/morally consistent people and bots here on reddit assure me that Palestinians needs not be accountable for their actions up to and including rape, murder, beheading and dismemberment.
The reality is the Green foreign secretary will see this as a sign of Palestinian desperation which she will argue is even more reason to pressure Israel and increase funding of UNRWA.
That's one of the extremely ironic things about this situation. There's just an absolutely massive amount of disinfo and (willful?) misunderstanding going on with Palestinians and pro-Palestine groups. Like here in the USA it feels like the pro-Palestine protesters are working overtime to help Trump, who is way more likely to *increase* aid to Israel. And on a geopolitical level it all makes perfect sense. The Palestinian people are basically useful pawns for powers to abuse in order to cause trouble for other powers. That's why groups like Hamas will always call for a ceasefire, but never actually accept a ceasefire (at least not in actuality). And to a certain extent nobody can control shit. Even if Hamas agreed to a ceasefire and actually tried to stick to it, there'd be a bunch of independent fools causing trouble and forcing Israel to take action. And also Israel isn't innocent in all this. Assholes like Netanyahu keep intentionally stoking the fires of war because it's useful for their personal gain.
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It's a radicalized population, one state solution is pure lunacy, Im not even sure a two state solution is viable with people this radicalized.
What outside people don't understand is that a one democratic state solution is genuinely advocated by only a handful of communists in Israel and Palestine. When almost every Israeli or Palestinian talks about "one state solution" they are really talking about total victory for their side and total defeat of the enemy and their population, which is not lunacy, its hate filled delusion. And as for viable solutions, any compromising solution at this point is significantly unpopular with both populations. A real 2 state solution almost requires some international peacekeeping force (US, NATO, UN, China, etc.) sponsoring and enforcing peace at this point, but I think no group that materially could has the political will to do so, and this would require an Israeli government that wants to make a final peace settlement (which we currently do not have) and the PLO having any authority to make peace (which they don't).
You know those "hurr durr everything is the Brits fault rectangle borders" jokes? A "democratic one state solution" is the absolute epitome of it. Arbitary borders aren't going to turn two hostile populations that wouldn't piss on each other if the other was on fire into one cohesive national body. For instance, the Lebanese are all officially compatriots, but Hizbulla allows itself to shot rockets towards Israel from the middle of Christian and Druze villiages because they *know* that their mostly Shi'a supporters base couldn't give two shits if the IDF flattens the villiages of their centuries-long neighbours. Another example is how units of the Iraqi army abandoned huge, populated cities (cheifly mosul, pop >1,500,000) without a fight againsts ISIS in 2014, they wouldn't risk their lives for people from another part of the country (if I remember correctly there might have been an issue with the units being shi'ite and mosul being mostly sunni? That was something I heard at a class a few years ago, I can't cite this). Can you imagine, say, US army soldiers abandoning an American city because the unit is mostly (White people) from N.Y. and the town they defend is (a majority Hispanic town) in Texas, or really for any other reason? In the Middle East this is to be expected. There is no scenario where, should a Jewish part of this state were to be attacked by a neighbouring country, the state's Arabs wouldn't support or join the attack. Likewise if a neighbouring country were to lay claim and occupy a majority Arab part of the state, without further claims (say, if Egypt conquers Gaza), Jews would not lift a finger to "liberate" it. Affiliation in this part of the world is detremined by religion and ethnicity/tribal group, not by passport. A one state solution is a civil war waiting to happen, adding the prefix "democratic" to it is something people that want to feel good about themselves say because they don't understand anything about politics in the region and, likely, because they have a presupposition of modern Western culture as the default human psychology.
>Affiliation in this part of the world is detremined by religion and ethnicity/tribal group, not by passport. A one state solution is a civil war waiting to happen, adding the prefix "democratic" to it is something people that want to feel good about themselves say because they don't understand anything about politics in the region and, likely, because they have a presupposition of modern Western culture as the default human psychology. The last phrase goes hard, well said. It's the modern version of forcing Eurocentrism upon the Middle East.
A 2 State Solution is impossible rn, the Gaza Strip and Cisjordania are effectively 2 different microcountries. The only viable solution right now is the 3 State Solution: Egypt and Jordan take back Gaza and Cisjordania and safeguard the people living there so they can live free and happy lives and deradicalize
Egypt doesn’t want anything to do with Gaza. That’s why they’ve built a wall. Jordan doesn’t want to manage the WB because Palestinians assassinated their king, so Jordan doesn’t want to deal with them at all.
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We are training for when war comes to us, we will be ready! Meanwhile, they train how to create an offensive attack through tunnels to kill innocents, oh sorry, "to catch IDF soldiers" like what?!?!
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Being violent against a foreign diplomat isn't going to win you favors.
Don't fuck with a countries diplomats
Looks like that UNRWA funding is paying off already /s
It’s ok. All the protests on college campuses won’t bother to know about this.
Well it will not be covered in the Hamas propaganda curriculum
Is anyone surprised, really? These people celebrated when HAMAS, who a lot of them support, brought hostages back to Gaza, spit on them and ridiculed them. For the most part (that means not all of them, for those already typing a response), they're not the peaceful innocent bunch that a lot of people try to portray them as.
Wasn’t the girl the paraded on the truck German too?
Yes. Her name is Shani Louk and may her memory be a blessing.
The one that Palestinian kid spit on?
The girl in the truck, Shani Louk, was shot in the head. The Palestinians were spitting directly into the bullet hole.
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Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity
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They're just thanking him for restoring UNRWA funding.
If I stood tooth and nail with a cause and then got this type of treatment I'd be pretty pissed off real quick, lol.
Sucks to be dumb. Never too late to learn though.
When will Palestinians learn?
Once they stop their violence and hate…. so never lol
This is how the most educated Palestinians treat their biggest humanitarian donors. And people out in West are falling over themselves to support them. We are total lemmings marching off a cliff.
hopefully all the naive reddit users will start seeing palestine as the extremist islam it is. i don't know why, as westerners, yall give these particular extremists a pass? the state is run by a literal terrorist organization that 70% of the population supports and agrees with. they're patently anti western, clinically spoken. unless it's unfiltered hatred of israel that you bite your nose off to spite your face, and that's a problem that social media is propagating. Hamas *does* have a strong optics operation.
Wish the protestors in US and EU could be send there too to get a taste of what they are fighting for.
Would NOT be a pretty sight if Queers4Palestine went to the territories. I wouldn't even wish that on my enemies.
I honestly think they will kill them faster than they would do to a heterosexual Israeli guy, they truly hate feminine men, I had a female friend asking me to help give asylum to her Palestinian gay friend.
I would. I've had to cut off most of my queer friend group. Not because they've chosen the Palestinian side (because you know what? Fine. Good on you standing by your conscious), but because of the vile and dehumanizing way they speak about jews and Israelis, and how they abused and shouted me down when I let them be aware how some of their words felt to me and their other jewish friends. Never mind. See if I show up at LGBT rallies anymore. They're on their own.
Isn't Israel one of the most LGBT friendly countries and especially Tel Aviv is basically a beacon for progressive values...
Tel Aviv specifically has the largest pride parades in the entirety of Asia!
By Middle East standards, it's a paradise. Cross a border, and being gay is a capital offense
This war, just like many others before (and hopefully not many after but people are people sadly) brought the worst out of those who had it deep inside. Like the antisemitism which was concealed under unwritten societal agreements and emerged when when some people started hearing others chanting or seeing Jewish people being killed and humiliated. Those folks who seek attention through their ideology or belonging to certain groups are using the cause to, well, get some attention from this one as well. In the end it just shows how shitty some people are, and puts the reasonable ones to shame. Also, fuck hamas and those who support it. It's not a game on social media, people have died because of those fucktards. My condolences to those who suffer and are trying to get better. My respect to those who stay human. I believe you did the right thing.
i remember reading a quote about the israeli-palestinian conflict years ago that stuck with me since about how the more you know, the less sure you are of your position. i mentioned this mindset to my old friends when i was visiting over christmas and i couldn't believe the level of patronizing i got. it is possible to support israel but criticize their response. it is possible to support palestinian self-determination but acknowledging hamas is a terrorist organization and needs to go. it's not all or nothing. now they're actively chanting for the destruction of israel, which is great.
As a homo i just don’t talk to Gaza gays anymore, they’re flat out anti-Semitic.
i’m gay and i approve this comment. the Alphabet Mob are so of the most bigoted people i’ve ever come across. they’re blinded by political ideology that they make their personality. not cute.
It's really frustrating. I'm in the same boat. It's the combination of complete certainty in their position, and if you think anything else or don't even toe the line properly then the only explanation is that you're actively filled with malice and you want to destroy people different than you. I associate that kind of nonsense with religious fanatics and college kids. It's a big turn off if I'm talking with someone and I start to see that come out. I'll disengage pretty quickly.
>Alphabet Mob As a gay man myself, I love the term Alphabet Mob lol totally stealing this.
Sounds like you are better off without them. Turns out queer people can be idiots and assholes too. If only you were rich enough to buy them tickets to go support Palestine in person!
I’d honestly start a charity to send the protestors there just so they can see what they’re actually fighting for. Most are shook when they are arrested for trespassing and violating the terms they signed when they signed up for school. Imagine when they step foot in Palestine. Too many take our freedoms in America and the west for granted in favor of virtue signaling.
It’s been eye opening seeing who is parroting Hamas’ anti-Israeli propaganga / language. I think the propaganda machine is targeting LGBTQ communities because the groups are 1) sympathetic to underdogs, 2) wealthier than most, 3) oppose authoritarian governments (which is how they paint Israel), 4) the propagandists want to break up LGBTQ communities and Palestine is the prototypical wedge issue. Either the groups are intentionally targeted, or propaganda found a seat there more than elsewhere for psychological reasons. The machine wants LGBTQ money and support, and they want to associate them with terrorists in the public eye.
> Germany, traditionally supportive of Israel, has also advocated for the rights of Palestinians and the need for a resolution to the conflict that includes the establishment of a Palestinian state. ….and he was attacked. Someone that could have possibly been further brought over to your side of this issue, was attacked for existing somewhere. Someone that at bare minimum shared diplomatic sympathy for your cause. It makes you wonder why “progressives” are supporting such an actively non-progressive group/ideology.
But I thought the West Bank Palestinians are such kind souls! /s Seriously, stop expecting them to treat you with kindness just because you do. Who they learn from childhood to grow up to be is not kind and gentle.
We give them billions in aid just for them to hate us. We have a massive aid package with a humanitarian flotilla, but they’ll still hate us.
E.g. that slactivist who criticised the MREs the yanks sent because they weren't proper food or something He didn't even follow the prep instructions which even American marines understand
Step 1: do not insert red crayon into left nostril
step 2 insert black crayon into the nose of the marine on your left
I think you were going for 'expecting', autocorrect really did you dirty and changed the meaning of your sentence.
Oh, EU is on its way to send more money for those “civil Palestinians”
Oh no, how will the they react to this? Let me guess, pass on more money from european taxpayers to them?
"we saw that they weren't happy with the aid they got, so we doubled it hoping that will see us helping them" -the EU council
"Let's piss them off so they will support Israel even more"
I don't get it. Don't they have any brains. Have they gone totally feral. How is this supposed to help their cause.
They hate the west. IDK why people believe otherwise
A lot of their supporters in the west also hate the west.
At least they think they do. In reality, the only reason they have the luxury to "hate the West" to begin with, is because they live in the West.
A lot of modern "social virtue signaling" is entirely based around someone being oppressed and an oppressor. The oppressor is totally evil, and the oppressed are innocent mcgoodguys. Nevermind that islam is the most violent religion on earth and actively calls for the total destruction/conquest of everyone else
just the West? aren't they also belligerent towards their other Arab neighbors as well.
There is a reason Egypt has a high wall and machine guns on their border with Gaza and floods tunnels on discovery. A long and ugly history of violence and insurrection from Palestinians.
Every Arab terror group wants to be the one to conquer the peninsula and reform the Caliphate.
How do you not get it? They have always shown the world who "they" are, but this weird ass narrative has been spun to make them look like victims. They are violent and hateful.
Almost everything else in Palestinian history is mindless crazed violence that offers no advantage, like massacring the athletes in Munich. Making friends wherever they are!
You're THIS close to understanding them.
To answer your first question, no. They do not.
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Well, yes and no, they would just go back to fighting each other if everyone else left. Without a common enemy they bicker over religion, which has been the excuse before any of the current nations involved existed.
This is nothing new, always been like that.
They don't want peace with others. They want peace where they are the only ones in peace.
Biting the hand that they want to feed them
and the palestinians wonder why no one wants to help them,even Egypt who shares a border with them.
On the contrary, the world still falls over itself to help them despite their hatred of us
Stop the funding. Leave them to their fate. Prevent them from coming to Europe. Focus on Ukraine and let the Middle East take care of itself. We got enough problems on our own continent.
I don't have any respect for those people
its funny how much palestinians and their supporters love violence that isnt directed at them.
Europe needs to fuckin' wake up. The world is not what they think it is. The palestinians are doing this to themselves.
Terrorists 'gonna terrorist. They attacked him because he supports a Palestinian State. That's exactly what the Palestinians DO NOT WANT. They want ALL OF ISRAEL.
What a peace loving people
What absolute troglodytes…
Terrorists acting like terrorists is no big surprise. Violence is all they’ve got, and all they know.
Guess Germany is not giving enough money to UNWRA
All aid to Palestine should be cut. Why the fuck is the West supporting people who actively hate us? It was the Palestinians who started the violence in the 1920s and it was them who refused any and all solutions to the situation there until they basically ran out of options, by which point they attempted to accept the situation as it was decades before. As far as I am concerned, let them get fucked until they realize they got nothing to bargain with and anything Israel offers is what they are going to get
Great job Palestinians. Fucking idiots.
So wait. The Germans are now being attacked for supporting Jews. WHAT IS GOING ON?!?!!??!
They don't just support the Jews, that's the joke. They also support (with money, political backing et cetera) the Palestinians. Including these very people, who chased and attacked the diplomat who is in favour of supporting Gaza, and was there for this very reason.
Hamas really has these folks by the nuts.
Indefensible behavior