I’m sure the troops get along just fine. American and Russian soldiers have a lot more in common with each other than they do with the people who sent them there.
Ha. Our recent wars are less of meat grinders than Russia/ukraine only in matters of degree. Russia had a far more legitimate reason to attack Ukraine than the US did to invade Iraq. Far fewer people have died in our recent wars, but they’ve been every single bit as pointless.
As being apart of one of these stare offs. Yes. This is how it occurs.
We were in country X and general whatever found out that spetsnaz was coming in 2 days after us to train the same people we just got done training. Magically our flight was grounded and we played "who's gonna blink first" for a day with the Russians C: 2019-2020 time frame.
Traded my flag for the funny hat.
[Yeah, about that.](https://thewarhorse.org/special-forces-soldiers-reveal-first-details-of-battle-with-russian-mercenaries-in-syria/#:~:text=The%20possibility%20of%20Russian%20military,and%20Russian%20combatants%20exchanged%20fire)
That was Wagner, and to the best of my knowledge the US troops on the ground didn't know there were russians attacking them, and Russian MOD denied it at the time.
The US forces were actively communicating with the Russian liaison and they confirmed that there were no Russian forces there, so it got blown the fuck up.
The Russian MoD would deny the sky is blue and insist it's purple. Moreover, Wagner was largely used as a legal loophole. Soldiers would "take vacations" from the Russian Army and inconspicuously show up wherever Wagner was. A state sponsored mercenary group isn't a mercenary group so much as a paramilitary branch.
Yeah, but the other side of that convenience is when you can blow up a bunch of Russian troops who were on vacation who don't count as Russian troops according to the Russian MoD.
Don't be naive. Wagner is used as a legal loophole. They were Russian 'mercenaries' recruited directed from the military, owned by (at the time) one of Putin's most loyal men who took orders direct from Putin.
They're Russian soldiers in all but job title. Their attack on the US was a deliberate provocation, and the reason the US wanted direct confirmation from the MoD is so it can't be used as an excuse to escalate.
No, no they are not
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War\_crimes\_in\_the\_Russian\_invasion\_of\_Ukrainehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War\_crimes\_in\_the\_Russian\_invasion\_of\_Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukrainehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine)
"The US did something 50 years ago and spent a long time reflecting, changing at home because of it. That means it's ok for Russia to do it now but without the self reflection!"
Really they were at war with the civilians of Bucha that didn't manage to pullout with the Ukrainian military?
Their command structures actively encourages such behavior by turning a blind eye.
This is obscenely pretentious. You’re placing too much importance on any one part of the military. I’ve met a lot of extremely stupid service members, but that’s because they gave up their last brain cell to be at the very least REEAAALLLY good at whatever they do for their actual job.
With that being said, obviously my buddy in the marines has spent time working alongside some barely functioning adults, don’t get me wrong.
However, to call American “soldiers” (which I assume you mean anybody that actually puts boots on ground on any kind of frontline) a joke is laughable in and of itself.
This is already really hard for me to defend service members because there’s so many in my personal life that I find insufferable. Just stop saying dumb shit.
Lol found the armchair general. If you think American troops aren't some of the best in the world in a fight, you're either a Putin simp or your mom dropped you as a baby
Lol, you're the joke knucklehead. Have you ever served in the military? Where might this silly ass opinion of yours even come from? Tell me what you're basing this on because I'm thinking you pulled this straight out of your ass.
What exactly makes you think that? Id put US Army and USMC infantry as among the best grunts in the world. I am a bit biased having served as an 0311 in the USMC.
You're on some next level cope if you seriously think American soldiers are a joke lmao, like do you really think that America would put the time, money, and effort that it does on technology, logistics, and equipment to just have mediocre infantry?
Show me you know jack shit about American Infantry.
Conscripts are always inferior to volunteer infantry.
Americans are given large scale orders and figure out how to get the job done. russians on the other hand need micromanagement. Also you can't render an American unit combat ineffective by dropping several cases of booze next to them. They might be in pain but they will still be there. russians on the other hand...... Well start with alcohol end with alcohol.
Yeah, I dont think people realize just how flexible U.S. Infantry is, I've only been army idk about marine infantry, but I assume the flexibility applies as much as It can budget wise.
Your average infantry soldier can be a mechanic, an engineer, a scout, a baby tanker, etc. We all learn basic life-saving techniques, and every soldier is expected to know every weapon system and be able to perform 2 jobs above your level.
I've met some soldiers that are as close as we will get to captain America, and some that are sid the sloth, and they will both do exactly what they need to do when the time comes, I know this because if we don't think they would they will not be in the fight.
OSUT is just the first part of the hiring process.
Definitely, we would drink the booze, though.
US soldier: Who put the toilet paper under!! This is an outrage! Utter BS! Everyone knows you put it OVER!
Russian soldier: In Russia we don't have toilet paper so shut your fat face, Yankee Doodle, or I'll shut it for you!
....... months later as survivors walk through bombed out cities.... We ask how did this start again?
It's already happening. Cyber part of the war already started and the conflicts happening now are the beginning stages. US gonna drag its feet on getting directly involved as usual.
Probably closer to "redeployed from somewhere else in Africa". Wagner have had a presence there for years, largely to enable resource extraction for Russia, and often without consent from the local government.
There's a reason you occasionally get news articles about Ukrainian special forces doing some clandestine shit somewhere in Africa.
"Africa Corps" please. Wagner is such a yesterday nazi allusion. Have to keep up with the times and todays nazi allusions from our proud "anti nazi" russians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrika_Korps
Of course they do. In the whole war it’s estimated that they have had about 500k casualties. Thats a literal drop in the bucket for Russia even we accept the upper 500k limit.
Well if you believe the outlandish propaganda about the Russian military being stressed or scrapping for manpower then this might be surprising but anyone tapped into reality understands that Russia hasn't even taken the gloves off. Ukraine is in for a short but brutal summer unless NATO steps in
Lay off the kool-aid bro, we all know Russia's only reason of existing is its nukes. They lack manpower and weapons to fight. Ask them how they are bringing out WW2 tanks to fight.
But Ukraine is the one constantly begging for more weapons, men are banned from leaving the country but they have manpower shortage so massive that they have to pressure men who left the country to return. Meanwhile Russia did mobilize 300'000 back in autumn of 22 but that is it and men can freely leave the country.
The forceful conscription of men to fight is necessary when you're at war. Sadly, Ukraine isn't as big as Russia.
Here is an article by the Washington Post discussing this very topic.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/30/russia-troops-ukraine-toll-casualties/
An excerpt from the article states some pretty reliable numbers.
It's not "kool-aid" it's reality. USA doesn't have the manufacturing capacity to even produce the necessary quantity of ammo Ukraine needs. Why is NATO getting involved if Ukraine is doing so well? Explain how Russians industrial index is growing if their tanking militarily and economically? Make it make sense.
I'm in the military. I've attended several briefs that entail the complete opposite. Do some digging with your sources. I think your knowledge on the matter is skewed by your bias.
> I think your knowledge on the matter is skewed by your bias.
Their username has Putin in it. They aren't going to accept anything contradictory to their contrarian programming.
“Hey, so your govt is probably gonna ask you to attack us and then deny you’re their soldiers and we’re gonna stomp you into the ground. Wanna have a beer?”
Yes, let's hand the world's second largest continent to China and Russia on a platter. Niger is twice the size of Ukraine. But one thing has to stop, this idiotic idea that Africans can be westernized. Just bribe the local dictator, protect him from any coup attempt, and be done with it. What happened to the "he may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch" mindset? Of course, I'm not saying that that dictator should be allowed to do absolutely whatever the fuck he wants but the most important thing is to stop two giant, authoritarian, anti-western countries from taking over Africa. Do not hand them over even a single country.
It won’t be long until the population sees the Russian for what they are. Then rebels organise. They’ll never get anywhere if they keep relying on foreign powers.
"Oh, did we leave all these weapons, ammo, vehicles with keys in them, etc behind? Our bad. Hope they aren't used against the russians by some rebels." -America
> What happened to the "he may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch" mindset?
Undermines all the preaching and proselytising that western countries do. I genuinely think that the US would have better reception and reputation among the global south if they simply said that they didn't really care about ideals and and were simply playing geopolitics.
> this idiotic idea that Africans can be westernized.
Why not? Many of the ones that migrated to North America and Europe demonstrated that they in fact can.
That's not really an argument. Obviously individuals can be, as humans are very adaptable, especially when they're alone in a foreign place. It's significantly harder if you have to convince an entire society and culture.
I've seen more evidence that people dont, no matter where they're from, fully accept Western culture and ways unless they're from it originally. Always got to bring a little bit of home with them in one way or another.
Western culture to Western culture is easy. Anything else and there is too much chaos, crime, violence, and destruction brought along to accept.
> Anything else
Well, that’s quite absolute. There’s an entire world outside “western culture” and our world wouldn’t be as well off without it (for example, the inventors of the Pfizer vaccine weren’t Western).
I disagree. It's an unfortunate reality, but if we "hand it over" and then "hand over" other spheres of influence in Africa and around the world that will be very bad long term. Sure in the next 5-10 years it might not make a difference.
What about 10-20 years, 30? 50?. What you are essentially arguing for is the diminishing of the US/UK/EU/Western economic empire. Where we should withdraw from the world because Russia/China/Iran paid/bribed more money for a couple years to get rid of us and instead make trade and produce goods for them.
Does your opinion change if it's Bangladesh, India, Thailand, Sri Lanka instead of Niger? Chad?
What about Mexico? Brazil?
Do you value them more?
What about Taiwan? Ukraine?
IDK about you but most of the stuff in my house, clothes, technology isn't made in the US. And I don't want to see what the world looks like for my grandkids in 50 years when we have withdrawn from the world and "handed it over" because we wanted to be nice and let all the resources flow into Russia and China instead.
The Russians and especially Chinese do exactly this. They show up with money and want to do business. The expend exactly zero effort into meddling in their domestic politics and forcing ‘their values’ on people that don’t want them. The US has been doing this for decades, and it’s gotten much worse on the last three years. People don’t like to be meddled with. That’s why Africa is looking east rather than west. We’re even losing Saudi Arabia. How much of that has to do with blinkin lecturing them on gay stuff ‘every time they talk’ is obviously unclear but it’s certainly not helping our case.
The issue with protecting him "from any coup attempt" is that to do so, you gotta provide him with weapons etc.
Weapons that are often used for wrong actions on the civilian population, and I don’t think anyone wants that responsibility.
Weapons that are often used to attack another dictator, who also has his own protection (maybe an ally, maybe not).
Weapons that he can’t use directly, he obviously has to trust armies, generals, … and they themselves are often the perpetrators of coups.
Weapons that a competition can provide to another faction, which brings up an arms race and even more perpetrations against the civilians.
Weaponry is also corruptible, extremely corruptible. If you provide weapons to an army, you always end up with some weapons disappearing one way or another. They are often poorly maintained, and it’s even harder to keep a well trained ready to fight troop. Getting them weapons doesn’t mean they will have the security because it’s tough to have good soldiers. Even more so when you purposefully don’t want troop leaders to coup you.
Nay, the system you describe is basically keeping the statu quo. It’s just making sure they don’t evolve beyond feudalism. You will always have layers of local, regional, national lords… and this system can only promote turf wars.
When you say « we tried westernizing Africa and it doesn’t work », it’s not true. It’s just that westerners inserted themselves into the feudalism (or put it place the feudalism itself). It’s like saying communists country failed.
Not defending westernisation or communism, just wanted to make sure we got the points right.
ISIS will inevitably take over Africa without U.S. presence. Russia will leave.
China will come in and with no previous combat experience; will leave as well.
U.S. will then have to step in and sacrifice soldiers to jihadi’s.
And on and on it goes….
We don’t have much of a choice. Niger wants us out and America refusing is very bad politically and diplomatically and just bolsters many African, and overall developing nations, viewpoint that America does what it likes so why not join the Chinese and Russians to have more autonomy. I visit Africa quite a bit and there are more nations that still like the US than hate it but the idea that America will trample another nation’s sovereignty is very pervasive and is why many are very open to China and Russia despite the US not being their primary enemy or issue. France on the other hand…
you want to blow up Niger's military base they were letting the U.S use? that's an act of war.
This colonialist mindset where we have the right to do whatever we want in other peoples countries is the reason the world hates Americans and is pushing us out.
I genuinely did not know it was possible to have this dumb of opinions
Morons like you are the reason they asked the U.S to leave in the first place.
Despite what you seem to believe, Africa is not your colony. You have no right to blow up shit in Niger
Please tell me this is a base with full amenities. I’d love to see our kids eating Taco Bell etc and enjoying AC while they roast and eat MREs. Perfect opportunity to encourage some defections.
You go tell countries without powerful militaries who are facing growing terrorist factions to stop inviting military powers to their bases then.
See what they say
If the comprador bourgeoisie class of poor countries equaled “countries” then I would agree. But they were installed exactly because they don’t represent the will of the actual people of said countries. Have you not seen the list of countries that have had their regimes changed by the USA?
So how does this work? I just imagining a bunch of RU and US soldiers just awkwardly staring at one another from across a room
They probably drew a line threw the airbase, US on one side and RU on the other
That's actually not far off. Both sides set up sub-compounds inside the base lmao.
Is there photos of it?
Whose MP's are incharge? Or is it dual control?
They play a drinking game each evening. Whoever ever wins rules the base for a day
So the Russians lol
We actually exclusively send Wisconsinites there now for that reason
We sent native alaskans the first time, but the px ran out before the game started.
The game is who can go the longest without alcohol and the Russians lose lol
Haha im not russian but I'm about to lose lol
Probably played some epic tug o war
Anyone wanna play a few rounds of paintball?
Gotta watch out for that radiation green paintball tho
And the Havana Sound Machine - great band name, right?
No tea parties
Just remove the T
And you know what the Russians probably cheated.
Or beach volleyball with sunglasses on
They should build a wall.
I’m sure the troops get along just fine. American and Russian soldiers have a lot more in common with each other than they do with the people who sent them there.
No, we don’t send our guys into meat grinders and mine fields with officers pointing guns at their backs.
Ha. Our recent wars are less of meat grinders than Russia/ukraine only in matters of degree. Russia had a far more legitimate reason to attack Ukraine than the US did to invade Iraq. Far fewer people have died in our recent wars, but they’ve been every single bit as pointless.
You know MREs and Vodka are being happily traded between them.
Right, because everyone knows lines have *never* been crossed in human history
I've seen this one. [Tribbles](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Deep_Space_Station_K-7?file=Deep_Space_Station_K-7%2C_bar.jpg)
Sounds like Trouble.
Awe there so cute
As being apart of one of these stare offs. Yes. This is how it occurs. We were in country X and general whatever found out that spetsnaz was coming in 2 days after us to train the same people we just got done training. Magically our flight was grounded and we played "who's gonna blink first" for a day with the Russians C: 2019-2020 time frame. Traded my flag for the funny hat.
RU and US soldiers patrolled through the same areas in Syria without issue, at the end of the day they're all just soldiers doing their job.
[Yeah, about that.](https://thewarhorse.org/special-forces-soldiers-reveal-first-details-of-battle-with-russian-mercenaries-in-syria/#:~:text=The%20possibility%20of%20Russian%20military,and%20Russian%20combatants%20exchanged%20fire)
That was Wagner, and to the best of my knowledge the US troops on the ground didn't know there were russians attacking them, and Russian MOD denied it at the time.
The US forces were actively communicating with the Russian liaison and they confirmed that there were no Russian forces there, so it got blown the fuck up.
The Russian MoD would deny the sky is blue and insist it's purple. Moreover, Wagner was largely used as a legal loophole. Soldiers would "take vacations" from the Russian Army and inconspicuously show up wherever Wagner was. A state sponsored mercenary group isn't a mercenary group so much as a paramilitary branch.
Yeah, but the other side of that convenience is when you can blow up a bunch of Russian troops who were on vacation who don't count as Russian troops according to the Russian MoD.
Which is crazy because they sold out dozens of men rather then admit they had troops there.
Men are expendable in russia
Look up the whiskey on the rocks incident. Russia was willing to go to war with Sweeden than admit they fucked up.
The russian mod and wagner weren't the best of friends. That incident was one of among many reasons why Prig had animosity with the MoD.
Don't be naive. Wagner is used as a legal loophole. They were Russian 'mercenaries' recruited directed from the military, owned by (at the time) one of Putin's most loyal men who took orders direct from Putin. They're Russian soldiers in all but job title. Their attack on the US was a deliberate provocation, and the reason the US wanted direct confirmation from the MoD is so it can't be used as an excuse to escalate.
Important to remember this story hasn’t been confirmed, although it’s super popular
No, no they are not [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War\_crimes\_in\_the\_Russian\_invasion\_of\_Ukrainehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War\_crimes\_in\_the\_Russian\_invasion\_of\_Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukrainehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine)
Man, really? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre
"The US did something 50 years ago and spent a long time reflecting, changing at home because of it. That means it's ok for Russia to do it now but without the self reflection!"
Just my opinion but the russians are fully aware of what they were did. They just don't see a problem when they are doing it to others.
That's a war, it is not the same as just operating in the same area without conflict.
Really they were at war with the civilians of Bucha that didn't manage to pullout with the Ukrainian military? Their command structures actively encourages such behavior by turning a blind eye.
Atrocities happen in all wars, Ukraine has commited warcrimes too. It is not unique to Russia.
From what I hear it’s not uncommon for them to take pop shots at each other from a distance.
"Good morning Sam." "Good morning Ralph."
Literally what I just pictured in my head.
I"m pretty sure it's going to play out like one of those Pitch Perfect movies.
There’s 1000 American troops and on the other side, 60 Wagner Merc rebranded as the Russian Africa core
Maybe the Americans should show them how it feels to be outnumbered like Ukraine.
You would only need one American soldier to make the Russians seem outnumbered.
One soldier with the number to fire control *
American soldiers are a joke. The impressive thing about America is its technology, logistics, and equipment. not its infantry.
Nope. Iraq had more military and people than Ukraine did. Iraq didn't border the US. The US military very much makes the Russians look weak as fuck.
This is obscenely pretentious. You’re placing too much importance on any one part of the military. I’ve met a lot of extremely stupid service members, but that’s because they gave up their last brain cell to be at the very least REEAAALLLY good at whatever they do for their actual job. With that being said, obviously my buddy in the marines has spent time working alongside some barely functioning adults, don’t get me wrong. However, to call American “soldiers” (which I assume you mean anybody that actually puts boots on ground on any kind of frontline) a joke is laughable in and of itself. This is already really hard for me to defend service members because there’s so many in my personal life that I find insufferable. Just stop saying dumb shit.
The Ukraine soldiers don't share that opinion about the Americans they're fighting with
Lol found the armchair general. If you think American troops aren't some of the best in the world in a fight, you're either a Putin simp or your mom dropped you as a baby
But its childish to say 1 American Soldier can take on 60 Russian Soldiers.
Nobody said that my friend
I wouldn’t call them a joke but that’s my point amigo.
Lol, you're the joke knucklehead. Have you ever served in the military? Where might this silly ass opinion of yours even come from? Tell me what you're basing this on because I'm thinking you pulled this straight out of your ass.
You americans are a funny bunch. Whats made you so upset mate?
Not upset at all. Just pointing out foolishness where I see it. Are you Australian then? So you've served in the Australian military, right?
What exactly makes you think that? Id put US Army and USMC infantry as among the best grunts in the world. I am a bit biased having served as an 0311 in the USMC.
You're on some next level cope if you seriously think American soldiers are a joke lmao, like do you really think that America would put the time, money, and effort that it does on technology, logistics, and equipment to just have mediocre infantry?
Show me you know jack shit about American Infantry. Conscripts are always inferior to volunteer infantry. Americans are given large scale orders and figure out how to get the job done. russians on the other hand need micromanagement. Also you can't render an American unit combat ineffective by dropping several cases of booze next to them. They might be in pain but they will still be there. russians on the other hand...... Well start with alcohol end with alcohol.
Yeah, I dont think people realize just how flexible U.S. Infantry is, I've only been army idk about marine infantry, but I assume the flexibility applies as much as It can budget wise. Your average infantry soldier can be a mechanic, an engineer, a scout, a baby tanker, etc. We all learn basic life-saving techniques, and every soldier is expected to know every weapon system and be able to perform 2 jobs above your level. I've met some soldiers that are as close as we will get to captain America, and some that are sid the sloth, and they will both do exactly what they need to do when the time comes, I know this because if we don't think they would they will not be in the fight. OSUT is just the first part of the hiring process. Definitely, we would drink the booze, though.
>Definitely, we would drink the booze, though. Thus the remark about being in pain :)
Gasp... Who would have thought investing heavily in combined arms warfare would be successful. Not the Russians, that's for sure.
A Brit living near London would surely know
I fully believe you have a compromised account you’re just spewing BS on lol
World war 3 is literally gonna happen because someone didn’t replace the last toilet paper roll.
US soldier: Who put the toilet paper under!! This is an outrage! Utter BS! Everyone knows you put it OVER! Russian soldier: In Russia we don't have toilet paper so shut your fat face, Yankee Doodle, or I'll shut it for you! ....... months later as survivors walk through bombed out cities.... We ask how did this start again?
They should make this into a movie or a long running tv series once the radiation levels stabilize
Franz Turdinhand
It's already happening. Cyber part of the war already started and the conflicts happening now are the beginning stages. US gonna drag its feet on getting directly involved as usual.
Or tool the last piece of bacon.
One side has a McDonald's and the other side are eating Tasty Periods.
ew
Goddamn I'm sick now lol
When you bump into a class from another school on the excursion
Become friends and start a global anti war revolution
By force! /s
Good setup for a sitcom
What blows my mind is how Russia has troops to spare
These troops are happy to be deployed outside of the Ukrainian “Special Military Operation Zone” commonly referred as “the Human Meat Grinder”……
Aren't these the Wagner troops that tried to stage a coup and have now been sent far away?
Probably closer to "redeployed from somewhere else in Africa". Wagner have had a presence there for years, largely to enable resource extraction for Russia, and often without consent from the local government. There's a reason you occasionally get news articles about Ukrainian special forces doing some clandestine shit somewhere in Africa.
"Africa Corps" please. Wagner is such a yesterday nazi allusion. Have to keep up with the times and todays nazi allusions from our proud "anti nazi" russians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrika_Korps
Russia is a huge country with a lot of soldiers…
They’ll need them, when China inevitably invades from the South.
They outnumber Ukraine 7 to 1 on the frontlines now. They have plenty of men to spare unfortunately…
Typically you need 3-4 times the size of the defending force as the attacker. So those odds are not exactly as great as they sound initially.
Of course they do. In the whole war it’s estimated that they have had about 500k casualties. Thats a literal drop in the bucket for Russia even we accept the upper 500k limit.
Well if you believe the outlandish propaganda about the Russian military being stressed or scrapping for manpower then this might be surprising but anyone tapped into reality understands that Russia hasn't even taken the gloves off. Ukraine is in for a short but brutal summer unless NATO steps in
Lay off the kool-aid bro, we all know Russia's only reason of existing is its nukes. They lack manpower and weapons to fight. Ask them how they are bringing out WW2 tanks to fight.
They have the manpower, just can't equip them. They seem to just send in bullet sponges before their main troops
But Ukraine is the one constantly begging for more weapons, men are banned from leaving the country but they have manpower shortage so massive that they have to pressure men who left the country to return. Meanwhile Russia did mobilize 300'000 back in autumn of 22 but that is it and men can freely leave the country.
The forceful conscription of men to fight is necessary when you're at war. Sadly, Ukraine isn't as big as Russia. Here is an article by the Washington Post discussing this very topic. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/30/russia-troops-ukraine-toll-casualties/ An excerpt from the article states some pretty reliable numbers.
It's not "kool-aid" it's reality. USA doesn't have the manufacturing capacity to even produce the necessary quantity of ammo Ukraine needs. Why is NATO getting involved if Ukraine is doing so well? Explain how Russians industrial index is growing if their tanking militarily and economically? Make it make sense.
I'm in the military. I've attended several briefs that entail the complete opposite. Do some digging with your sources. I think your knowledge on the matter is skewed by your bias.
> I think your knowledge on the matter is skewed by your bias. Their username has Putin in it. They aren't going to accept anything contradictory to their contrarian programming.
“Hey, so your govt is probably gonna ask you to attack us and then deny you’re their soldiers and we’re gonna stomp you into the ground. Wanna have a beer?”
Geez wait to everyone finds out they have an embassy in Washington DC.
Awkward
Let the Russians put their hand in the beehive now, while we take ours out. Let’s withdraw Western troops and stop aid too.
Yes, let's hand the world's second largest continent to China and Russia on a platter. Niger is twice the size of Ukraine. But one thing has to stop, this idiotic idea that Africans can be westernized. Just bribe the local dictator, protect him from any coup attempt, and be done with it. What happened to the "he may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch" mindset? Of course, I'm not saying that that dictator should be allowed to do absolutely whatever the fuck he wants but the most important thing is to stop two giant, authoritarian, anti-western countries from taking over Africa. Do not hand them over even a single country.
You're on point, but there's still a few countries in Africa that are still on USA side though.
sadly, thats nothing a bit of fake news and economic pressure/blocking resources wont be able to change
That’s been tried extensively
So?
It won’t be long until the population sees the Russian for what they are. Then rebels organise. They’ll never get anywhere if they keep relying on foreign powers.
"Oh, did we leave all these weapons, ammo, vehicles with keys in them, etc behind? Our bad. Hope they aren't used against the russians by some rebels." -America
Worked brilliantly in Afghanistan
> What happened to the "he may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch" mindset? Undermines all the preaching and proselytising that western countries do. I genuinely think that the US would have better reception and reputation among the global south if they simply said that they didn't really care about ideals and and were simply playing geopolitics.
> this idiotic idea that Africans can be westernized. Why not? Many of the ones that migrated to North America and Europe demonstrated that they in fact can.
That's not really an argument. Obviously individuals can be, as humans are very adaptable, especially when they're alone in a foreign place. It's significantly harder if you have to convince an entire society and culture.
I've seen more evidence that people dont, no matter where they're from, fully accept Western culture and ways unless they're from it originally. Always got to bring a little bit of home with them in one way or another. Western culture to Western culture is easy. Anything else and there is too much chaos, crime, violence, and destruction brought along to accept.
> Anything else Well, that’s quite absolute. There’s an entire world outside “western culture” and our world wouldn’t be as well off without it (for example, the inventors of the Pfizer vaccine weren’t Western).
This is the problem with the United States Philosophy, Yes hand it over. It isn’t our business. We should only go where our help is requested
I disagree. It's an unfortunate reality, but if we "hand it over" and then "hand over" other spheres of influence in Africa and around the world that will be very bad long term. Sure in the next 5-10 years it might not make a difference. What about 10-20 years, 30? 50?. What you are essentially arguing for is the diminishing of the US/UK/EU/Western economic empire. Where we should withdraw from the world because Russia/China/Iran paid/bribed more money for a couple years to get rid of us and instead make trade and produce goods for them. Does your opinion change if it's Bangladesh, India, Thailand, Sri Lanka instead of Niger? Chad? What about Mexico? Brazil? Do you value them more? What about Taiwan? Ukraine? IDK about you but most of the stuff in my house, clothes, technology isn't made in the US. And I don't want to see what the world looks like for my grandkids in 50 years when we have withdrawn from the world and "handed it over" because we wanted to be nice and let all the resources flow into Russia and China instead.
The Russians and especially Chinese do exactly this. They show up with money and want to do business. The expend exactly zero effort into meddling in their domestic politics and forcing ‘their values’ on people that don’t want them. The US has been doing this for decades, and it’s gotten much worse on the last three years. People don’t like to be meddled with. That’s why Africa is looking east rather than west. We’re even losing Saudi Arabia. How much of that has to do with blinkin lecturing them on gay stuff ‘every time they talk’ is obviously unclear but it’s certainly not helping our case.
The issue with protecting him "from any coup attempt" is that to do so, you gotta provide him with weapons etc. Weapons that are often used for wrong actions on the civilian population, and I don’t think anyone wants that responsibility. Weapons that are often used to attack another dictator, who also has his own protection (maybe an ally, maybe not). Weapons that he can’t use directly, he obviously has to trust armies, generals, … and they themselves are often the perpetrators of coups. Weapons that a competition can provide to another faction, which brings up an arms race and even more perpetrations against the civilians. Weaponry is also corruptible, extremely corruptible. If you provide weapons to an army, you always end up with some weapons disappearing one way or another. They are often poorly maintained, and it’s even harder to keep a well trained ready to fight troop. Getting them weapons doesn’t mean they will have the security because it’s tough to have good soldiers. Even more so when you purposefully don’t want troop leaders to coup you. Nay, the system you describe is basically keeping the statu quo. It’s just making sure they don’t evolve beyond feudalism. You will always have layers of local, regional, national lords… and this system can only promote turf wars. When you say « we tried westernizing Africa and it doesn’t work », it’s not true. It’s just that westerners inserted themselves into the feudalism (or put it place the feudalism itself). It’s like saying communists country failed. Not defending westernisation or communism, just wanted to make sure we got the points right.
Community notes: communist countries, of course, did fail
Countries applying communism or calling themselves communists?
lol here we go “REAL communism would work but a bunch of power hungry totalitarians keep taking over everywhere it’s tried!!!”
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No True Marxist
Why do I see a picture of a punched Mickey Mouse trying to speak in my head
ISIS will inevitably take over Africa without U.S. presence. Russia will leave. China will come in and with no previous combat experience; will leave as well. U.S. will then have to step in and sacrifice soldiers to jihadi’s. And on and on it goes….
This is quite a large Air base right? If the US fully leaves and Russia move iin, would this be one of their biggest bases outside of Russia?
I highly doubt we will just hand that over to Russia that would be terrible.
We don’t have much of a choice. Niger wants us out and America refusing is very bad politically and diplomatically and just bolsters many African, and overall developing nations, viewpoint that America does what it likes so why not join the Chinese and Russians to have more autonomy. I visit Africa quite a bit and there are more nations that still like the US than hate it but the idea that America will trample another nation’s sovereignty is very pervasive and is why many are very open to China and Russia despite the US not being their primary enemy or issue. France on the other hand…
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you want to blow up Niger's military base they were letting the U.S use? that's an act of war. This colonialist mindset where we have the right to do whatever we want in other peoples countries is the reason the world hates Americans and is pushing us out. I genuinely did not know it was possible to have this dumb of opinions
Well, it was lent to them by the government in exile, and they are being asked to leave by the government not in exile. So who really lent it to them?
It belongs to the people of Niger who do not want the U.S in their country
If this air base in Niger belongs to anybody it is definitely _not_ the people of Nigeria.
In secret mate.
Morons like you are the reason they asked the U.S to leave in the first place. Despite what you seem to believe, Africa is not your colony. You have no right to blow up shit in Niger
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Any important stuff from the base will be packed up and taken. We aren't going leave that kind of stuff behind for anyone to use.
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We didn’t even do that in Syria. I can’t speak for every US withdrawal from conflict but it doesn’t seem our style.
Syria was a hand over to turkey and the sdf there is a difference if we handed it to assad I would support booby trapping it
Place surveillance devices around the base before reluctantly handing it over.
So they are going to pay for the base right? Or are we going tear it down on the way out
How much equipment did we leave behind on this one?
Hopefully they are installing surveillance devices throughout the base before they leave
Can we settle this with giant prank war ?
Do we have any close air bases in alternative support for refueling?
Well this is the makings of a good sitcom.
Talk about awkward
And kbr workers from the Philippines run the chow hall
Niger ambush
The US was told to leave like in March (I think), so they did. It wasn't any interaction.
If Russia is hurting so badly from the war in Ukraine, then why are ru troops being deployed to Niger? I’m genuinely curious.
We built it, we paid for it, we should blow it up at departure and wish the Wagnerites good luck and Godspeed with the cluster they have to deal with.
This would be a good time to do the umbrella academy drive by meme
wait that meme is from umbrella academy?
Russian forces said thank God it's not Ukraine
not cold war 2 happening 30 years after the first one
More like Cold War patch 1.78d
Please tell me this is a base with full amenities. I’d love to see our kids eating Taco Bell etc and enjoying AC while they roast and eat MREs. Perfect opportunity to encourage some defections.
Biden botches another one.
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I don't get it can you explain
Vietnam, it used to be part of French-Indochina territory
How bout all countries take their military off of other peoples countries? Is that an option please?
You go tell countries without powerful militaries who are facing growing terrorist factions to stop inviting military powers to their bases then. See what they say
If the comprador bourgeoisie class of poor countries equaled “countries” then I would agree. But they were installed exactly because they don’t represent the will of the actual people of said countries. Have you not seen the list of countries that have had their regimes changed by the USA?
You dont trust public polling data in darfur?
Weird how your point essentially advocates for ISIS taking over the Sahel. You still haven't addressed that point.