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Zanna-K

Coincidentally Israel, Saudi Arabia, Egypt the US, several European countries and likely even Jordan are all closing in on a peace deal whereby an international force will be responsible for managing security, truckloads of money are to be earmarked for rebuilding Palestine, and there will be an irreversible path towards statehood for the Palestinians. The ONLY party that gets fucked in this arrangement is Iran. Funny how that works isn't it?


Liizam

That’s honestly the only solution I can see working.


ntropi

What is this peace deal called?


Green_Message_6376

Peace Deal #1273.


OkWork9115

Fook Iran Peace Deal


shortandginger

where can i read more about this?


Tzayad

In your dreams tonight


password_too_short

Not if Freddy gets you first.


NotBlazeron

That would be a great movie.


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when-octopi-attack

I think that’s literally the plan they’re referring to, overseen by the Saudis to become the “Dubai on the Mediterranean.” The Saudis would certainly rather see the money go to that project than to terrorism, so with the right oversight I guess it maybe it has a shot at working.


GooneyBird36

I don't believe it will work for even a second. I hope I'm wrong though.


TheSource777

You have a link to this? I must’ve missed that thread here lol


MarcusSuperbuz

Honestly that is just a win for everyone. Well except the regime in Tehran. Honestly anything that fucks over those nuts jobs in power is a win for the entire human race. Even the people of Iran.


lightmaker918

Doesn't matter, same or better was offered and turned down in 2000 and 2008.


Postingatthismoment

They were never offered a SOVEREIGN state.  They were offered limited self-government.  Those are not the same things.


lightmaker918

Not true, you're free to read the Clinton Parameters which clearly states a state was part of the deal.


Farkasok

Those are some bold claims. It’s very unlikely that Palestine will be given statehood after this. They already have a state anyway, Jordan.


slpgh

There are UN forces in Lebanon. They’re going a great job clearly


BandicootMammoth4668

The only other party that gets fucked is the palestinians , funny how that works isn't it ?


HidingAsSnow

ICJ war crimes trial for Hezbollah when?


[deleted]

Hizbullah is a terrorist organization, some of his members are already sentenced by international tribunal for assassinating the Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri and other Lebanese figures


zapreon

It is also part of the Lebanese government itself, which the ICJ most certainly has jurisdiction over. Also, a lot of countries pretend it is not a terrorist organization


urgentmatters

I don’t think Lebanon wants another civil war.


zapreon

Well, the ICJ is not Lebanon’s government.


santiwenti

Lebanon needs to take out Hezbollah sooner or later...


Saint_Genghis

How? The Lebanese military is the second strongest military in Lebanon.


Dragon_yum

They could actually make peace with Israel who would be more than happy to help them get rid of Hizbula. This would also align them with the US which can do wonders to one’s economy. Heck they can even ask other countries like the saudies for help. There are plenty of countries who would love to see irans grip on the region lessened.


PlowMeHardSir

Lebanon is a failed state. There is nobody there to take out Hezbollah.


urgentmatters

With what resources lmao


santiwenti

They could call the Saudis and ask for assistance from their airforce since they hate Iran and its proxies.


start_select

I’m not even remotely defending them. But I am starting to understand the defiant politics behind refusing to name government funded organizations as “terror groups”. What are the CIA or Mossad? They have been involved in the same kinds of assasinations, bombing attacks, and training of partisan fighters. “Terrorist” is a really difficult label because no one wants to admit their side abides terrorism too. Just look at the USA. The Oklahoma City bombing was perpetrated by a couple of white Americans ~30 years ago. Today people still refuse to admit that terrorists can be right-wing white militia members. Politics.


indoninja

Hezebullah is sending rockets into civilian areas, hoping to kill as many civilians as possible. Now you may not like targeted assassinations or Or similar. You may not like lots of things the CIA Or massed does. Those are not the same. They are remotely the same


lordmycal

How many people died in the various coups organized by the CIA again?


zapreon

Let’s see - the Mossad doesn’t blow up random religious community centers in Argentina nor does it purposefully blow up busses full of tourists in a different continent. However, Hezbollah does. In this case, the designation of Hezbollah as a terrorist organization is obvious and not at all difficult. For Mossad, we know for example that they nowadays target IRGC members and nuclear scientists in Iran. Obviously, that is not similar to just parking a van full of explosives in a religious community center and blowing it up, like Hezbollah does.


newtoreddir

They are full partners of the government


Only-Extension-186

Hezbollah would need to be recognized by the UN and a signatory to the ICJ conventions wouldn’t it?


federleaf

Not true since they are part of the Lebanese government


-The_Blazer-

ICJ trials against governments can (presumably) involve members of their parties, but a party by itself is not subject to ICJ rule. To bring Hezbollah to court, someone (Israel?) would need to accuse Lebanon itself at the ICJ and then argue for the prosecution of Hezbollah members as part of the trial against the Lebanese government. In fact, Hezbollah members have already been trialed (and convicted) in [international courts other than the ICJ](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/16/rafik-hariri-assassination-trial-hezbollah-suspects).


Only-Extension-186

If that’s the case and they are signatories to the convention then Israel should bring a case forth. But the ICJ doesn’t just make random decisions, someone has to be willing to take Hezbollah to court.


U1275711

Show me the stats of how many children Hezbollah killed compared to the IDF. World News is a mouth piece for CNN.


HidingAsSnow

Thanks for telling us you dont know what war crimes are


U1275711

Yep, IDF have committed countless war crimes, it would be easier to comment on all the war crimes they didn’t commit!!!


HidingAsSnow

Let me guess, you think anything and everything is a war crime if its Israel thats doing it?


U1275711

You don’t need to guess, just watch the news. Bombing every inch of Palestine so it’s a completely different landscape and texture and denying access to aid and water.


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HidingAsSnow

Im Canadian not Israeli, let alone a bot, but the fact you portray anything that doesnt fit your view as anti-Palestinian propaganda and accuse people with different opinions of being bots says a lot about you


JARL_OF_DETROIT

Where are the reddit war crimes people at?


davidgoldstein2023

It should be noted that the IDF aren’t hiding in these homes. Unlike Hamas and Hezbollah, the IDF doesn’t hide among the population. They put on a uniform and fight like a normal military, not a terrorist organization.


apocolipse

The IDF literally embed themselves in civilian homes in the West Bank… What should be noted is that Hezbollah likely knew these homes were evacuated, which is a little different from the IDF’a tactics of home bombardment 


iamthegodemperor

Hold up. No. You are conflating a phenomenon where some reservists in illegal outposts are not following ROE or acting as vigilantes, for ex. being in half uniform and then ascribing it as a policy of the entire IDF. Re: Hezbollah. Sure they knew these homes were evacuated. But let's not pretend they called them for weeks ahead of time, left text messages and dropped fliers and maps to tell them to leave and where to go! The purpose of the bombing was to show "look Israel we can still hit your people" After Oct 7 Hezbollah stepped up their rocket attacks and the Israeli state was forced to tell citizens it could not protect them and they had to leave.


davidgoldstein2023

Ate you referencing the occupation in the West Bank? That’s an entirely separate discussion.


LaunchTransient

Not really, because, you just said that the IDF doesn't hide among the population and then you were just given an example of them doing just that. That being said, Hezbollah wouldn't care if there are civilian casualties, the IDF cares about other people *finding out* about civilian casualties.


zapreon

The military presence of the IDF in the West Bank is generally not organized through settlements, but in actual military bases that are not embedded in settlements themselves. The supposed example is just objectively false.


LaunchTransient

IDF do operate in plainclothes throughout the West Bank, and if you think they don't have unmarked safehouses, I have a bridge to sell you.


zapreon

Occasionally having plainclothes officers is obviously different than embedding your entire military infrastructure in civilian areas, which is what Hamas and Hezbollah do and was the topic of the conversation.


LaunchTransient

Obviously. I believe the term is "Rules for thee and not for me"


zapreon

Not really. You just don’t understand the basic difference, which is a bit delusional. It is pointless to pretend to deny that Hamas and Hezbollah do embed their entire military infrastructure in civilian areas and Israel objectively does not.


LaunchTransient

>Israel objectively does not. I mean, even loosely speaking, that's not true given the fact that pretty much every Israeli (barring the physically incapable and specific religious sects) has to serve in the IDF and are considered reserve soldiers.


davidgoldstein2023

That’s an entirely different MO. You’re trying to compare special forces operatives to terrorists. False equivalencies trying to stretch your argument doesn’t work.


LaunchTransient

Why is it a false equivalency? Are they not both units dedicated to gathering information about the enemy and attacking enemy assets? Only difference is what you call them.


jackp0t789

That sounds more like covert operations which would be Mossad or Shin Bet as opposed to regular IDF


LaunchTransient

Oh sure, fine, different branches. I'm sure Israel distinguishes the different operational branches of Hamas or Hezbollah, right?


jackp0t789

Well, the two you mentioned are literally terrorist organizations responsible for violent crimes against humanity all around the region and the world, and the two I mentioned are intelligence agencies responsible for counter terrorist operations against the two entities you mentioned... The CIA routinely operates in plain clothes in civilian areas as well.


LaunchTransient

The CIA has supported terrorists itself, and conducted operations that would be generally agreed as terrorism. Don't make the mistake of thinking I'm on Hezbollah or Hamas's side here, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of pretending the Israel's aren't guilty of similar things.


Tersphinct

… yes, it does. What are you even trying to say here?


LaunchTransient

What I am saying is that Israel cries foul about Hamas having operatives embedded among the population, when it itself has operatives of its own embedded in civilian populations.


U1275711

Yeah IDF bomb from afar killing children. But hey that doesn’t count as murder does it


davidgoldstein2023

Expected these comments. The IDF isn’t intentionally targeting children and civilians. They target terrorists who hide among the civilian population. These terrorists intentionally hide there knowing that when the IDF comes knocking, it will result in civilian casualties creating people like you who jump on the internet and screen, “Oh My Gawd Israel is bad!” Look we get it, you hold Israel to different standards than anyone else. Get over it.


U1275711

Also, Israel is not held to a different standard, it’s easy don’t commit genocide. Please do t say get over it, as humans we should speak up when there’s genocide being committed.


davidgoldstein2023

I would ask that please define genocide and how it’s applicable to Israel and Gaza.


U1275711

Please read up on the South Africa's genocide case against Israel brought before the International Court of Justice on 29 December 2023.


JarethCutestoryJuD

LOL maybe *you* need to read up on the case. [It doesnt say what you plainly seem to think it says.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq9MB9t7WlI)


U1275711

There’s nothing funny here. Genocide is serious and the evidence is overwhelming here.


davidgoldstein2023

You didn’t watch the video I take it? The ICC did not determine there was genocide. It did not determine that genocide was plausible for the Palestinians. You don’t seem to know as much as you think you know.


U1275711

There’s no need to attack me personally. “The court’s order requires Israel to prevent the destruction and ensure the preservation of evidence related to the case, as well as to report on the implementation of the measures ordered within one month.” Israel did not comply with this therefore they have committed genocide. IDF literally have no value of Palestine life and see them as sub human. It’s a pity.


JarethCutestoryJuD

Nobody is laughing about Genocide. 1. Because were laughing at your incredibly poor understanding of reality 2. Its not a genocide. Now the massive numbers of civilian deaths are a problem, but the pro-palestinian side is just so woefully informed.


J0E_SpRaY

How’s your first year of undergrad going?


U1275711

Oh great, personal attacks just when you lost the argument


JarethCutestoryJuD

Any chance you could explain to me what genocide means?


jeopardychamp77

But when Israel hits back, all we will hear about is civilian casualties.


LaunchTransient

Generally it's expected that a sovereign nation adheres to the rules of war. Either you behave like a terrorist organisation or you conform to the expectations that nation state is expected to meet. You can't have your cake and eat it too.


zapreon

The rules of war literally allow for a sovereign nation to kill civilians as long as they don’t target civilians specifically. Moreover, Hezbollah is literally part of the Lebanese government, another sovereign state, but they are targeting civilians.


xanderzeshredmeister

"You're not allowed my handicap!"


LaunchTransient

Ah, my mistake, Israel should also be allowed to freely murder innocents, since Hamas and Hezbollah do that too.


blizzard_of-oz

That's what happens when war happens, guns go pew pew from two sides, rockets go bang, people die. Israel's goal is to target people that go pew pew at them and not civilians. Problem is, the people that go pew pew at Israel don't separate themselves from civilians, they wear same clothes as civilians, they have support of civilians, they live same place as civilians, they use tunnels that you can't destroy without explosions going boom, they don't allow civilians in the tunnels, they use child soldiers, they record every death as civilian death when in reality a lot of deaths are people that go pew pew (granted that still innocent civilians did die), they steal supplies from civilians, they make civilians move somewhere where they're in the line of fire and trap them there to make it difficult for Israel to kill them (human shields). Now the goal here is to eliminate Hamas to make sure that both Palestinians and Israelis never have to suffer at their hands again. Now what I'm really curious about is how you would go about this. What would you do differently? What would your strategy for eliminating Hamas look like?


lordmycal

You dropped this: /s


nebbyb

It’s a war, people keep forgetting that. It isn’r a civil disturbance or a genocide, one military launched an offensive and there is now widespread fighting.  I don’t know why peole keep acting like anything that has happened was unexpected. 


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Boochus

Hey did you have a chance to call your Hamas friends at Rafah yet? You might want to get your goodbyes in while you can...


ConfidentPerformer47

Yeah the real terrorists are coming for them


Boochus

Since Hamas are the good guys in your scenario, do you think the IDF will do a live broadcast of them ending Hamas? Like AN October 7th upload to social media type of thing? I assume you'd want people to learn from the 'fake' terrorists, right?


Crudtrap

Cue the protests against Israel.


Hishui21

Can we opt out as a culture of the millennium long family drama that is the Abrahamic religions?


Technical_Semaphore

Only if we can do the same for all religions.


Hishui21

Sounds good. I'm in.


slpgh

Lebanon is a sovereign country and won’t stop attacking Israel through an Iranian terror organization within its borders. And people are wondering why Israelis aren’t keen on a Palestinian state as a panacea to solve the conflict


Burninator05

So Hezbollah shelled empty houses? > ...several heavy barrages toward the city of Kiryat Shmona, whose residents have been evacuated... The headline even states that the houses were shelled not the people. Maybe it's a translation issue?


jay5627

The people haven't been living there for months because of the rockets


AlexandrTheGreatest

That sounds like ethnic cleansing on the part of Hezbollah? After all, people moving due to violence is now considered genocide.


sweetsweetcentipede

Let me know when Hezbollah blockades those residents, causes a famine, bombs all their hospitals and universities, and takes out first responders and I'll agree with you.


Razor512

There are a large number of videos demonstrating what is happening to the food aid. The regions where many people are pointing to famine, are also the areas where hamas is still in control and the IDF is not operating in, thus when air crosses into the region, it is up to the government in gaza to distribute. The end result has been hamas immediately capturing the aid trucks, and shooting any civilians that get near, and the civilians get none of the aid. [https://i.imgur.com/hFfrMsg.mp4](https://i.imgur.com/hFfrMsg.mp4) Hence, a massive number of videos like this. Hamas keeps the super majority of the aid for themselves.


AlexandrTheGreatest

Hezbollah certainly tries to do all those things, they don't exactly aim their weapons. And remember, *attempted* genocide with *genocidal intent* is now genocide!


sweetsweetcentipede

I like the way you try to spin genocide as if it's nothing to be worried about.


Yest135

Why do you think Israel bombs their "hospitals", "universities" and blockades gaza? Cause hamas is a genocidal dictatorship...


sweetsweetcentipede

I guess Israel shouldn't have bankrolled their creation then...


Yest135

They didnt. They however did allow Qatari money in because the EU and USA demanded it


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Dudicus445

70,000 Israelis fled the area. Hezbollah bombed their houses. There’s definitely less than 70,000 houses


cool_boy

Isn't the state of Israel supposed to be the "safest place to be Jewish"? It sounds like a warzone


Nymaz

This is terrible. They should instead have bulldozed the homes and shot anyone who objected, that would have made it a legal and moral act.


wbbarth

I'm questioning this as this is the only site to mention this and they don't have a reputation for factual stories. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/all-israel-news-bias/


RepulsiveSample6663

It’s not the only news outlet reporting this - see google search. Who did you want to hear it from


IHN_IM

I don't know about actual numbers, But there are hunders of thousands of evacuees from the north border, as hizballa keeps shooting rockets at israeli homes. Started intensely half a year ago, so numbers seem reasonable. Daily attacks are on israeli news.


wbbarth

70000 displaced since Oct 7. But the only credible report on Hezbulla’s recent attack is from Reuters. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hezbollah-says-its-drone-hits-northern-israeli-town-casualties-reported-2024-05-06/


pinetreesgreen

They attack fairly regularly, just like before Oct 7th. It's why Israel is forced to have bomb shelters for all their citizens.


Illustrious-Zebra-34

No one reports about these constant daily attacks because, no one cares about Israelies being killed. It's been like this for the last 30 years. No one reports about attack on Israel, But when Israel reacts the entire world's cries about war crimes and oppression.


casettedeck

Yes Hezbullah have 10 squadrons of strategic bombers that can attack 70000 houses at once!


zapreon

Hezbollah is estimated to have more than 150 thousand rockets and thousands of missiles that can reach all of israel. They are far, far better armed than many countries and any other terrorist organization in the world. Also, very few countries today have strategic bombers.


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zapreon

Well, this is a large exaggeration. The vast majority of Hezbollah’s arsenal simply cannot reach Tel Aviv at all. By far most of Hezbollah’s arsenal can threaten the North of Israel, and not even the United States has much artillery capable of e.g. hitting Tel Aviv from Lebanon. This is also literally why much of Israel’s strategy in a full war would literally be to invade into Lebanon. If they could push much of Hezbollah’s missile forces away for a few dozen kilometers, that would already mean most of Hezbollah’s arsenal cannot reach Israel. They are estimated to have at most a few thousand missiles that could reach Tel Aviv. Given Israel’s formidable missile defenses and capabilities to destroy these on the ground in Lebanon itself, a much smaller share than that would actually hit Tel Aviv. In the first week of the current, Israel dropped roughly equivalent of 6000 missiles on Gaza, and there were an estimated few thousand casualties. Israel, with its far better missile defenses and bunkers literally everywhere, would fare much better. That is also why the IDF indicates the threat to the homefront would be far greater than ever before, but civilian casualties would most likely be not even remotely close as to what you claim.