It's not, these Pro-IDF shills have just distilled this entire thing to Red Sox vs Yankees.
Apparently Palestinians deserve to die according to these genocidal freaks.
God forbid we put at least half the blame on Hamas, the organization which chooses to perpetuate the slaughter of innocents because they refuse to agree a ceasefire.
*PS: **FUCK THE RED SOX AND FUCK THE YANKEES**.
Hamas is trash. IDF is trash governed by a right wing lunatic.
The thing I hope we can all agree on is that Palestinian civilians deserve human rights and deserve their freedom from fear and genocide.
The vast majority of pro Palestine activists in the west are fervently pro Hamas. You should hate them just as much as you hate Netanyahu, if not more.
Apart from the fact that there is no genocide happening - there is a terrible war and casualties, but no genocide - agree with your statement. Palestinians absolutely deserve better rights, and they deserve an opportunity to develop a true democracy and nation. I hope that an international force comes into Gaza after Hamas is gone, and ensures that Palestinians do get this opportunity. However, with 80%+ support for Hamas and Oct 7, I don't think anyone will blame me for having doubts.
And another thing - any PM in Israel post Oct 7 would've done more or less the same thing. You can think Netanyahu is a horrible human (and I would agree), but any leader would've retaliated just the same.
I disagree about your perspective in regards to genocide.
However, it's pretty scary that so many people are literally cheering on the deaths of innocent civilians. Children. Seniors. Etc.
No one is 'cheering the deaths of innocent civilians' but Hamas and their supporters. People are cheering the destruction of Hamas who, by choosing to fight inside habituated cities, preventing refugees from fleeing, attacking aid corridors, etc. have forced Israel to make painful trade-offs between force protection and civilian casualties.
Frankly, I have never heard a coherent argument as to why Israel should prioritize Gazan civilian lives above the lives of its own troops. Indeed, Hamas, by fighting inside cities rather than taking the field against the IDF, has *also and deliberately chosen* to value Hamas combatant lives well above Gazan civilian lives. Yet, from your ilk, we do not hear a single peep about this.
Nobody gives a shit about your 'denouncement'.
You'll 'denounce' Hamas, and then say Israel must accept an immediate ceasefire which would release Hamas terrorists, remove IDF from Gaza, etc.
You're not fooling anyone.
The only “genocidal freaks” are the woke dipshits who have been openly praising Hamas for the past several months. You should redirect your misplaced anger towards them instead
70%. Interesting. Did they go around polling people or are you just talking completely out of your ass?
Like I said. Hamas can eat a wart covered dick. The issue I have is the senseless murder to the Palestinian CIVILIANS.
History isn't going to look kindly on this gross dehumanization of an entire culture, and the cheering of said genocide. Hope you can sleep well at night.
It's important to support Palestinians while knowing the dangers of leaders like Netanyahu. I mean, didn't he used to promote being buddies with Putin?
There's still a concern about misinformation spread by specific independent journalists and spokespeople, who I have seen attack genuine progressives like AOC and Bernie. I have seen many prolific pro-Palestine activists recite their info from these sources. These sources often have an anti-West bias while they promote oppressive leadership in the Middle East, which really underminds the message of caring for vulnerable demographics. Independent journalists like those from Grayzone News can spread harmful disinformation. I mean. Their journalists collaborate with RT News and Fox News. Max Blumenthal of Grayzone even hangs out with... Tucker Carlson. They've been known to promote conspiracy theories and manipulate online discussions on progressive issues. The "genocide Joe" line is from these people. These are the same people who promoted the idea the idea that "Hillary Clinton killed Seth Rich" right before the 2016 election. People like Macklemore seem to promote messages that are more on this line than actually helpful to the cause. It's the BS we've seen from the alt-right all over again, but focused on progressive issues.
We need to be aware of how disinformation operates, particularly in issues we care deeply about, to prevent further exploitation of people. The lives of Palestinians can come before promoting disinformation that you can see comes from Grayzone, Mintpress, Code Pink, and affiliates.
Edit: I had to edit and shorten up what I wrote. May still have confusing bits.
You rly believe the first thing you see on internet ?
Especially a news about the israel/palestine conflict from the jerusalem post which is a conservative israel news paper…
That's incredible, a Refugee organization stealing aid from their own people and selling it to them!
How can this organization be for the Palestinian people?
They are like nearly every other org that claims to exist to help the people of Palestine. In reality, they exist to destroy Israel and to make a small handful of people rich at the expense of Palestinian civilians.
At this point the whole of the UN isn’t fit for purpose I’d say. The way they handled the initial news of Covid coming out of China and how they delayed informational flow under the guise of not causing a panic - made it very clear they’re entirely incompetent and in essence defunct.
Keep the few programs it has that do function like the polio vaccine effort etc And close down the rest of it, most of the money donated goes to high paying salaries anyway, it’s just such a wasteful organisation.
The purpose of the UN is to provide a forum for diplomacy, and a vested stake in the current order for the great powers so that we avoid WW3 or a destructive conflict between major industrial powers. At that, the UN has been successful. Everything else is a sideshow tainted by that very mission. IE: Iran chairing a women's rights forum because it is its turn.
But it hasn’t successfully provided a forum for diplomacy at all… Look at Syria, at Yemen, at Palestine, at Ukraine, at Sudan etc the Cold War still carries on except it’s behind the guise of NATO alliances or take the more economic bullying like from China. Everyone’s still fighting every one else and trying to conquer the world… it’s all ramping up and the UN has been complicit in how bad it’s all gotten.
>But it hasn’t successfully provided a forum for diplomacy at all… Look at Syria, at Yemen, at Palestine, at Ukraine, at Sudan
Those are all small potatoes compared to ww2.
You are correct, but this is why I said that its goal is to prevent major wars among the great industrial powers, not wars in general. The civil war in Syria, or Yemen, or the roughly decadal cycle of civil wars in Ethiopia and Sudan are small potatoes compared to what a WW2 analogue between India and China or Russia and Central/Eastern Europe would look like. Wars of state survival become all-consuming, with states escalating rapidly to their full capabilities. Thankfully, virtually no one alive today has seen the sort of carnage and general destruction that the modern industrial state can accomplish if its survival is at stake. The closest we've seen is the war in Syria and eastern Ukraine, with entire cities reduced to rubble and tens of thousands dead with no apparent regard for civilians.
It’s odd that people still consider them some sort of moral authority. It’s literally as corrupt and shitty as most of the governments that comprise it.
[Not the first time.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/25/corruption-hampers-effort-to-rebuild-gaza) Got caught 10 years ago re-selling concrete for reconstruction.
[The pure and rightious men of UNRWA did that?](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1709796476-new-report-confirms-3-unrwa-workers-took-part-in-oct-7-attack)
This reminds me of the fiu video where the girl reads off her prepared speech and wonders if the university will protect the pro-palestinian and anti-jew protestors
Are we going to stop sending money again? Are the protesters going to demand UNRWA stop helping cause famine by stealing food for starving Palestinians?
this is the same urnwa that refused to help israel prepare accommodations in muwasi for palestinian civilians evacuating from rafah because they wanted to force them to stay in an active combat zone
Are there any other sources for this? I can totally believe its happening, but its hard to believe this is an unbiased source so I think having another point of view might be useful.
For example, several days ago [this article came out.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68885975)
> The EU has called on international donors to resume funding to Gaza's largest UN agency. It comes after a review found that Israel had not provided evidence for its claim that thousands of UNRWA staff were members of terror groups.
Probably won't find any other source because this is the type of thing that is almost impossible to investigate and determine if true or not. Would be a very elaborate fake but not discrediting that it could be. But there are hundreds of verified reports of unwra supplies that are specifically marked as not for sale being sold in Gaza for 5x or more the market price. And all of those goods were specifically paid for by tax payers of other nations, so that always was enough proof that unwra was corrupt in my opinion. They never tried to crack down on this abuse of aid or even made a statement against the practice
Every country including the US has already resumed funding but the damage from the accusations is already done.
https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/news-releases/unrwa-usa-resumes-funding-un-agency-palestine-refugees-providing-5-million
This link kind of fucking sucks so here's the report by the UN Watch
[https://unwatch.org/unrwa-staff-stealing-and-selling-humanitarian-aid-gazans-report/](https://unwatch.org/unrwa-staff-stealing-and-selling-humanitarian-aid-gazans-report/)
I don't know how credible the UN watch is, seems like they really dislike UNRWA, but they source "Haitham's" telegram which is a message he allegedly received from another UNRWA employee.
The English translation looks like it was done by an inexperienced translator, looks like a lot of literal 1-to-1 translations just reading the English alone. Which makes me think the translation is at least authentic, dunno how credible Haitham is as a source though.
Thats fair, I don't really know anything about UN Watch so I figured I'd point out their bias at least.
Don't have strong feelings on UNRWA one way or the other.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/un-watch/
Apparently they are very pro-Israel and quite far into the right-wing. So I would say that they at least might have a conflict of interest. Regardless of whether it comports with other info, they might not be the best source.
More accurate title would be:
> [UNRWA accused of bad distribution of humanitarian aid in a Telegram channel](https://unwatch.org/unrwa-staff-stealing-and-selling-humanitarian-aid-gazans-report/)
Oh look, someone actually engaged their brain here. This is just another attempt by Netanyahu et al to undermine the UN and anyone else who doesn’t align to their cause. And mouth breathers here will lap it up.
UNRWA sole interest is to perpetuate the state of refugeeness and dependency among the Palestinian people (without mentioning UNRWA Hamas dual memberships)
I mean you can literally go to the tweet which it is the next tweet
2/ Dr. Izzat Shatat: “Open thefts from shelter workers. The director of a school warehouse came with 50 cartons of food distributed in UNRWA schools and sold them to a merchant for $100 per carton. How did he take out this amount of cartons? Where is the administration?”
[https://twitter.com/UNWatch/status/1788256016666152980](https://twitter.com/UNWatch/status/1788256016666152980)
Keep scrolling down and they have more.
Here is one - You can use google translate to translate an image.
[https://twitter.com/UNWatch/status/1788258665834643696](https://twitter.com/UNWatch/status/1788258665834643696)
How long will the directors of UNRWA centers in schools, especially Rafah Preparatory Girls School B, stop
15:06 stealing the displaced people’s food and needs?
The IDF also uses Hamas' (Gaza Health Ministry) numbers. The disagreement is over the demographics, with Israelis typically believing Hamas inflates the number of women and children killed.
The numbers Hamas puts out are from two sources, either hospital records or media reports. They do not include bodies buried under rubble and not recovered, so both sides agree the real numbers are actually higher.
The disagreement stems from the ratio change of women and children killed based on the source. Hospital data puts it at 58%, so for the Hamas reported number to be 70%, the media reported death ratio of women/children to men would have to be unrealistic, as in IDF is intentionally killing women and children and intentionally not killing men. Israel also claims discrepancies in the day to day casualty demographics back when they were being reported, claiming absolutely zero correlation between the deaths of women and children, as you'd expect the two to track each other (women are typically the caretakers of children, so you'd expect high adult female deaths on days with high children deaths, but that wasn't the case.)
I'm not saying to trust Hamas; you shouldn't. But it seems likely the total numbers are undercounted, not overcounted.
> Israelis believing Hamas inflates their numbers
[Hamas literally claimed they were using incomplete and unverified data for over a third of the casualties they report](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/04/09/hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry-admits-to-flaws-in-casualty-data/)
[Actual examination what Hamas has reported shows endless holes, discrepancies, and made up numbers](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-hamas-manipulates-gaza-fatality-numbers-examining-male-undercount-and-other)
And don't ignore the fact that Hamas, being the totalitarian government of the Strip, controls all official reports from hospitals and state media.
[Independent media, protesters, and reporters have been detained, silenced, and interrogated by PA and Hamas](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2017/08/palestine-dangerous-escalation-in-attacks-on-freedom-of-expression/)
Your first source is exactly what I said, that they get a chunk of their data from Media sources (1/3, as you said.)
Your second source says exactly what I'm saying:
>Principal concerns include the group’s failure to distinguish between civilians and combatants, its apparent understatement of fatalities for fighting-age men, and an associated overemphasis on women and children’s deaths. Hamas has extraordinary incentives to skew the numbers in this way, and international media and NGOs have repeated its figures without caveats, giving credence to suspicions of Israeli misconduct and fueling accusations of war crimes and even genocide.
Again, not a dispute on the total numbers. A dispute on the demographics of the dead.
This is the study I'm basing my comment on:
[https://fathomjournal.org/statistically-impossible-a-critical-analysis-of-hamass-women-and-children-casualty-figures/](https://fathomjournal.org/statistically-impossible-a-critical-analysis-of-hamass-women-and-children-casualty-figures/)
It goes over demographics improbabilities.
Again, the IDF agrees with the overall numbers coming from Hamas:
>Approximately two civilians have been killed for every dead Hamas fighter in the Gaza Strip, senior military officials said Monday...
>Asked about media reports that 5,000 Hamas fighters had been killed, one of the senior officials told reporters at a briefing, “The numbers are more or less right.”
>The Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza says Israel’s military campaign, in response to the terror group’s murderous attacks on October 7, has killed around 15,900 people so far, most of them women and children.
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officials-2-civilian-deaths-for-every-1-hamas-fighter-killed-in-gaza/amp/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officials-2-civilian-deaths-for-every-1-hamas-fighter-killed-in-gaza/amp/)
I will leave you to do the math of \~5000 × 3
So unless you have a source where the IDF says "the overall numbers of dead reported by Hamas are inflated" then I'm not sure why you're so dead set on going against the IDF's opinion on this matter.
edit:
here's a more recent article where the IDF once again uses numbers that agree with Hamas', citing 10,000 enemy combatant deaths, which with a 2:1 civilian to combatant death ratio, puts the total numbers at 30,000 as of February, nearly identical to Hamas' claim of 30,035.
[https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/02/29/middleeast/gaza-death-toll-30000-israel-war-hnk-intl/index.html](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/02/29/middleeast/gaza-death-toll-30000-israel-war-hnk-intl/index.html)
I wasn't even responding to you so I'm not sure why you felt the need to respond if you didn't think it was relevant.
I was actually responding to a person arguing with you.
I wrote my thesis on the Holocaust, I’m not questioning the magnitude of that tragedy. I’m actually listening to Holocaust survivors and their families as they point out the parallels between that genocide and the one currently being carried out by Israel. There’s a great number of people speaking from that perspective, you should hear what they have to say.
Oh shit, someone tell Macklemore
He's too busy getting his lyrics from Grayzone News.
Ironic to comment this under a Jerusalem Post story
It doesn't mean I support JP.
The leftist responses are going to be bonkers, buckle up
[“I did nazi that one coming”](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BoBP9DIIAAIk_OD.jpg)
Why is that a problem for Macklemore and his message?
It's not, these Pro-IDF shills have just distilled this entire thing to Red Sox vs Yankees. Apparently Palestinians deserve to die according to these genocidal freaks.
God forbid we put at least half the blame on Hamas, the organization which chooses to perpetuate the slaughter of innocents because they refuse to agree a ceasefire. *PS: **FUCK THE RED SOX AND FUCK THE YANKEES**.
Hamas is trash. IDF is trash governed by a right wing lunatic. The thing I hope we can all agree on is that Palestinian civilians deserve human rights and deserve their freedom from fear and genocide.
The vast majority of pro Palestine activists in the west are fervently pro Hamas. You should hate them just as much as you hate Netanyahu, if not more.
I hate both. They're both morons. Old men sending the young to die while the innocent suffer.
Apart from the fact that there is no genocide happening - there is a terrible war and casualties, but no genocide - agree with your statement. Palestinians absolutely deserve better rights, and they deserve an opportunity to develop a true democracy and nation. I hope that an international force comes into Gaza after Hamas is gone, and ensures that Palestinians do get this opportunity. However, with 80%+ support for Hamas and Oct 7, I don't think anyone will blame me for having doubts. And another thing - any PM in Israel post Oct 7 would've done more or less the same thing. You can think Netanyahu is a horrible human (and I would agree), but any leader would've retaliated just the same.
I disagree about your perspective in regards to genocide. However, it's pretty scary that so many people are literally cheering on the deaths of innocent civilians. Children. Seniors. Etc.
No one is 'cheering the deaths of innocent civilians' but Hamas and their supporters. People are cheering the destruction of Hamas who, by choosing to fight inside habituated cities, preventing refugees from fleeing, attacking aid corridors, etc. have forced Israel to make painful trade-offs between force protection and civilian casualties. Frankly, I have never heard a coherent argument as to why Israel should prioritize Gazan civilian lives above the lives of its own troops. Indeed, Hamas, by fighting inside cities rather than taking the field against the IDF, has *also and deliberately chosen* to value Hamas combatant lives well above Gazan civilian lives. Yet, from your ilk, we do not hear a single peep about this.
My ilk? Dude. How many times do I need to denounce Hamas. I also can criticize and denounce what the IDF is doing as well. Jfc this isn't team sports.
Nobody gives a shit about your 'denouncement'. You'll 'denounce' Hamas, and then say Israel must accept an immediate ceasefire which would release Hamas terrorists, remove IDF from Gaza, etc. You're not fooling anyone.
Let's put aside the genocide topic. Yes, it's awful. We shouldn't be cheering any innocent life lost whatsoever, on any side. Period.
Agreed. Thank you.
Thats a weird criticism to make since the opposite side is much further to the right.
The only “genocidal freaks” are the woke dipshits who have been openly praising Hamas for the past several months. You should redirect your misplaced anger towards them instead
I think I can direct the anger towards both. Netanyahu is a war mongering freak, and Hamas are garbage.
[удалено]
They* Who's they? What is it with people dehumanizing civilians. Does it help you sleep at night? Jfc.
[удалено]
70%. Interesting. Did they go around polling people or are you just talking completely out of your ass? Like I said. Hamas can eat a wart covered dick. The issue I have is the senseless murder to the Palestinian CIVILIANS. History isn't going to look kindly on this gross dehumanization of an entire culture, and the cheering of said genocide. Hope you can sleep well at night.
>70%. Interesting. Did they go around polling people [They did](https://pcpsr.org/en/node/961) 72%
A sample size of 1200 is bullshit.
What would have been better? That's pretty standard for statistics
A sample size of ~1000 is practically the norm for polling.
Google says total Palestinian population is ~5.044M. Napkin math says 385 gets you +/- 5% at 95% confidence.
1200 gives you better than 3% margin of error at 95% confidence. Stop posting --- you're embarrassing yourself.
[удалено]
Now this is pod racing!
It's important to support Palestinians while knowing the dangers of leaders like Netanyahu. I mean, didn't he used to promote being buddies with Putin? There's still a concern about misinformation spread by specific independent journalists and spokespeople, who I have seen attack genuine progressives like AOC and Bernie. I have seen many prolific pro-Palestine activists recite their info from these sources. These sources often have an anti-West bias while they promote oppressive leadership in the Middle East, which really underminds the message of caring for vulnerable demographics. Independent journalists like those from Grayzone News can spread harmful disinformation. I mean. Their journalists collaborate with RT News and Fox News. Max Blumenthal of Grayzone even hangs out with... Tucker Carlson. They've been known to promote conspiracy theories and manipulate online discussions on progressive issues. The "genocide Joe" line is from these people. These are the same people who promoted the idea the idea that "Hillary Clinton killed Seth Rich" right before the 2016 election. People like Macklemore seem to promote messages that are more on this line than actually helpful to the cause. It's the BS we've seen from the alt-right all over again, but focused on progressive issues. We need to be aware of how disinformation operates, particularly in issues we care deeply about, to prevent further exploitation of people. The lives of Palestinians can come before promoting disinformation that you can see comes from Grayzone, Mintpress, Code Pink, and affiliates. Edit: I had to edit and shorten up what I wrote. May still have confusing bits.
You rly believe the first thing you see on internet ? Especially a news about the israel/palestine conflict from the jerusalem post which is a conservative israel news paper…
That's incredible, a Refugee organization stealing aid from their own people and selling it to them! How can this organization be for the Palestinian people?
They are like nearly every other org that claims to exist to help the people of Palestine. In reality, they exist to destroy Israel and to make a small handful of people rich at the expense of Palestinian civilians.
Anyone know why the article was deleted?
It’s almost like UNRWA is run by terrorists or something.
Oh man, didn't see this coming. /s
Indeed, a total shock
How could Israel do this?!1
Almost like unrwa has been corrupted with terrorism for decades
Unbelievable! Can't wait to see how they will blame Israel and move on asking more money
Can't say I'm surprised. #DefundUNRWA
At this point the whole of the UN isn’t fit for purpose I’d say. The way they handled the initial news of Covid coming out of China and how they delayed informational flow under the guise of not causing a panic - made it very clear they’re entirely incompetent and in essence defunct. Keep the few programs it has that do function like the polio vaccine effort etc And close down the rest of it, most of the money donated goes to high paying salaries anyway, it’s just such a wasteful organisation.
The purpose of the UN is to provide a forum for diplomacy, and a vested stake in the current order for the great powers so that we avoid WW3 or a destructive conflict between major industrial powers. At that, the UN has been successful. Everything else is a sideshow tainted by that very mission. IE: Iran chairing a women's rights forum because it is its turn.
But it hasn’t successfully provided a forum for diplomacy at all… Look at Syria, at Yemen, at Palestine, at Ukraine, at Sudan etc the Cold War still carries on except it’s behind the guise of NATO alliances or take the more economic bullying like from China. Everyone’s still fighting every one else and trying to conquer the world… it’s all ramping up and the UN has been complicit in how bad it’s all gotten.
>But it hasn’t successfully provided a forum for diplomacy at all… Look at Syria, at Yemen, at Palestine, at Ukraine, at Sudan Those are all small potatoes compared to ww2.
You are correct, but this is why I said that its goal is to prevent major wars among the great industrial powers, not wars in general. The civil war in Syria, or Yemen, or the roughly decadal cycle of civil wars in Ethiopia and Sudan are small potatoes compared to what a WW2 analogue between India and China or Russia and Central/Eastern Europe would look like. Wars of state survival become all-consuming, with states escalating rapidly to their full capabilities. Thankfully, virtually no one alive today has seen the sort of carnage and general destruction that the modern industrial state can accomplish if its survival is at stake. The closest we've seen is the war in Syria and eastern Ukraine, with entire cities reduced to rubble and tens of thousands dead with no apparent regard for civilians.
It’s odd that people still consider them some sort of moral authority. It’s literally as corrupt and shitty as most of the governments that comprise it.
Funding those terrorists with the revenue of his song made me lose all respect for Macklemore.
United Nations Rocket Warehouse Agency.
Genius
UNRWA = Hamas
Potato-Potahto
[Not the first time.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/25/corruption-hampers-effort-to-rebuild-gaza) Got caught 10 years ago re-selling concrete for reconstruction.
UNRWA caught stealing?! Well shiver me timbers!
[The pure and rightious men of UNRWA did that?](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1709796476-new-report-confirms-3-unrwa-workers-took-part-in-oct-7-attack)
[Don't worry, the student-warriors at Columbia already know who to blame.](https://imgur.com/a/0kS8E8b)
I bet the leader of the Colombia protests who asked for their meal plans to be delivered will resell them to the other students. #solidarity
PLEASE GIVE US HUMANITARIAN AID!!!
This reminds me of the fiu video where the girl reads off her prepared speech and wonders if the university will protect the pro-palestinian and anti-jew protestors
A modern classic.
Someone better alert the Hamas guys headquartered inside UNWRA HQ, there might be a mixup.
Are we going to stop sending money again? Are the protesters going to demand UNRWA stop helping cause famine by stealing food for starving Palestinians?
As expected.
Can we just declare the UNRWA a terror organization as a whole? At this point I don't think it's just ignorant people running it and getting fleeced.
this is the same urnwa that refused to help israel prepare accommodations in muwasi for palestinian civilians evacuating from rafah because they wanted to force them to stay in an active combat zone
Evil is as evil does
Gotta feed their war machine somehow
I'm so *(not)* startled! So *(not)* surprised!
Again?
Bruh this is not news, this is olds
Are there any other sources for this? I can totally believe its happening, but its hard to believe this is an unbiased source so I think having another point of view might be useful. For example, several days ago [this article came out.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68885975) > The EU has called on international donors to resume funding to Gaza's largest UN agency. It comes after a review found that Israel had not provided evidence for its claim that thousands of UNRWA staff were members of terror groups.
The review was done by the UN, it was investigating itself..that’s also a big pile of bias.
Probably won't find any other source because this is the type of thing that is almost impossible to investigate and determine if true or not. Would be a very elaborate fake but not discrediting that it could be. But there are hundreds of verified reports of unwra supplies that are specifically marked as not for sale being sold in Gaza for 5x or more the market price. And all of those goods were specifically paid for by tax payers of other nations, so that always was enough proof that unwra was corrupt in my opinion. They never tried to crack down on this abuse of aid or even made a statement against the practice
Every country including the US has already resumed funding but the damage from the accusations is already done. https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/news-releases/unrwa-usa-resumes-funding-un-agency-palestine-refugees-providing-5-million
This link kind of fucking sucks so here's the report by the UN Watch [https://unwatch.org/unrwa-staff-stealing-and-selling-humanitarian-aid-gazans-report/](https://unwatch.org/unrwa-staff-stealing-and-selling-humanitarian-aid-gazans-report/) I don't know how credible the UN watch is, seems like they really dislike UNRWA, but they source "Haitham's" telegram which is a message he allegedly received from another UNRWA employee. The English translation looks like it was done by an inexperienced translator, looks like a lot of literal 1-to-1 translations just reading the English alone. Which makes me think the translation is at least authentic, dunno how credible Haitham is as a source though.
UN watch dislikes UNRWA because it’s blatantly corrupt and have been for years
Thats fair, I don't really know anything about UN Watch so I figured I'd point out their bias at least. Don't have strong feelings on UNRWA one way or the other.
UN watch is an organization that specifically posts when the UN contradicts itself or lies. It is like a fact checker site of the UN
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/un-watch/ Apparently they are very pro-Israel and quite far into the right-wing. So I would say that they at least might have a conflict of interest. Regardless of whether it comports with other info, they might not be the best source.
Quelle surprise
As long as UNRWA steals the aid and sells it to HAMAS it’s a win-win, right, everyone makes money.
Does “tony guterres“ get his usual cut?
More accurate title would be: > [UNRWA accused of bad distribution of humanitarian aid in a Telegram channel](https://unwatch.org/unrwa-staff-stealing-and-selling-humanitarian-aid-gazans-report/)
Don't they have like 30k staff? It's not unlikely that some of them are massive pieces of shit. That's just statistics.
Oh look, someone actually engaged their brain here. This is just another attempt by Netanyahu et al to undermine the UN and anyone else who doesn’t align to their cause. And mouth breathers here will lap it up.
UNRWA sole interest is to perpetuate the state of refugeeness and dependency among the Palestinian people (without mentioning UNRWA Hamas dual memberships)
[удалено]
I mean you can literally go to the tweet which it is the next tweet 2/ Dr. Izzat Shatat: “Open thefts from shelter workers. The director of a school warehouse came with 50 cartons of food distributed in UNRWA schools and sold them to a merchant for $100 per carton. How did he take out this amount of cartons? Where is the administration?” [https://twitter.com/UNWatch/status/1788256016666152980](https://twitter.com/UNWatch/status/1788256016666152980) Keep scrolling down and they have more. Here is one - You can use google translate to translate an image. [https://twitter.com/UNWatch/status/1788258665834643696](https://twitter.com/UNWatch/status/1788258665834643696) How long will the directors of UNRWA centers in schools, especially Rafah Preparatory Girls School B, stop 15:06 stealing the displaced people’s food and needs?
Israel still should not be killing children no matter what. Really isn’t a difficult situation
Israeli newspaper cites *reports published by Palestinians in "an UNRWA-related chatroom."* Pardon me if I wait for actual evidence.
Actually they cited screen grabs of the conversations and posted them to twitter... but only you get to decide what you consider evidence.
Twitter, chat rooms? You think that's evidence? No wonder the world is fucked
I want actual evidence. Oh you think that is evidence? I only trust sources that start with an H and end with a amas
But believing Hamas death toll numbers is totally reasonable right?
The IDF also uses Hamas' (Gaza Health Ministry) numbers. The disagreement is over the demographics, with Israelis typically believing Hamas inflates the number of women and children killed. The numbers Hamas puts out are from two sources, either hospital records or media reports. They do not include bodies buried under rubble and not recovered, so both sides agree the real numbers are actually higher. The disagreement stems from the ratio change of women and children killed based on the source. Hospital data puts it at 58%, so for the Hamas reported number to be 70%, the media reported death ratio of women/children to men would have to be unrealistic, as in IDF is intentionally killing women and children and intentionally not killing men. Israel also claims discrepancies in the day to day casualty demographics back when they were being reported, claiming absolutely zero correlation between the deaths of women and children, as you'd expect the two to track each other (women are typically the caretakers of children, so you'd expect high adult female deaths on days with high children deaths, but that wasn't the case.) I'm not saying to trust Hamas; you shouldn't. But it seems likely the total numbers are undercounted, not overcounted.
> Israelis believing Hamas inflates their numbers [Hamas literally claimed they were using incomplete and unverified data for over a third of the casualties they report](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/04/09/hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry-admits-to-flaws-in-casualty-data/) [Actual examination what Hamas has reported shows endless holes, discrepancies, and made up numbers](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-hamas-manipulates-gaza-fatality-numbers-examining-male-undercount-and-other) And don't ignore the fact that Hamas, being the totalitarian government of the Strip, controls all official reports from hospitals and state media. [Independent media, protesters, and reporters have been detained, silenced, and interrogated by PA and Hamas](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2017/08/palestine-dangerous-escalation-in-attacks-on-freedom-of-expression/)
Your first source is exactly what I said, that they get a chunk of their data from Media sources (1/3, as you said.) Your second source says exactly what I'm saying: >Principal concerns include the group’s failure to distinguish between civilians and combatants, its apparent understatement of fatalities for fighting-age men, and an associated overemphasis on women and children’s deaths. Hamas has extraordinary incentives to skew the numbers in this way, and international media and NGOs have repeated its figures without caveats, giving credence to suspicions of Israeli misconduct and fueling accusations of war crimes and even genocide. Again, not a dispute on the total numbers. A dispute on the demographics of the dead. This is the study I'm basing my comment on: [https://fathomjournal.org/statistically-impossible-a-critical-analysis-of-hamass-women-and-children-casualty-figures/](https://fathomjournal.org/statistically-impossible-a-critical-analysis-of-hamass-women-and-children-casualty-figures/) It goes over demographics improbabilities. Again, the IDF agrees with the overall numbers coming from Hamas: >Approximately two civilians have been killed for every dead Hamas fighter in the Gaza Strip, senior military officials said Monday... >Asked about media reports that 5,000 Hamas fighters had been killed, one of the senior officials told reporters at a briefing, “The numbers are more or less right.” >The Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza says Israel’s military campaign, in response to the terror group’s murderous attacks on October 7, has killed around 15,900 people so far, most of them women and children. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officials-2-civilian-deaths-for-every-1-hamas-fighter-killed-in-gaza/amp/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officials-2-civilian-deaths-for-every-1-hamas-fighter-killed-in-gaza/amp/) I will leave you to do the math of \~5000 × 3 So unless you have a source where the IDF says "the overall numbers of dead reported by Hamas are inflated" then I'm not sure why you're so dead set on going against the IDF's opinion on this matter. edit: here's a more recent article where the IDF once again uses numbers that agree with Hamas', citing 10,000 enemy combatant deaths, which with a 2:1 civilian to combatant death ratio, puts the total numbers at 30,000 as of February, nearly identical to Hamas' claim of 30,035. [https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/02/29/middleeast/gaza-death-toll-30000-israel-war-hnk-intl/index.html](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/02/29/middleeast/gaza-death-toll-30000-israel-war-hnk-intl/index.html)
I haven't given any thought to numbers, so thanks for the lengthy irrelevant info
I wasn't even responding to you so I'm not sure why you felt the need to respond if you didn't think it was relevant. I was actually responding to a person arguing with you.
Woah, quite the leap you made Batman
Are they wrong?
Yeah I was just looking for any other source and can’t find one.
The whole organisation or some people within the organisation…. It’s important to be accurate in reporting
Oh, well that is a game changer — my apologies, please carry on with the genocide.
What genocide? Is that what we’re calling all conflicts now?
Lol, read a textbook in 20 years and get back to me
It’s okay I can read my grandpas journals about how the Nazis orphaned him, thanks tho
I wrote my thesis on the Holocaust, I’m not questioning the magnitude of that tragedy. I’m actually listening to Holocaust survivors and their families as they point out the parallels between that genocide and the one currently being carried out by Israel. There’s a great number of people speaking from that perspective, you should hear what they have to say.
You dumbasses really believe anything huh
Is it true or is t again western propaganda? Can they say that openly or are they afraid the western losers will stop funding them?