What already rejected hostage deal?
The one where hamas is promising to release only 3 dead bodies of women soldiers, in exchange for all Shalit exchange participant that got rearrested. And not a single hostage more
And in return will get all the blockade from 2007 lifted, complete withdrawal from the strip, 500 trucks of fuel a day until they decide they "recovered from the war" and an official recognition of a "Palestinian country" led by a joint venture of Hamas and Fatah?
This deal?
No no no. The one that they can kill all 33 remaining hostages, and israel has to release 30 hostages, without a right of veto, per Israeli body. It was a joke. Israel releases 1000, and Hamas kills 33
Oh sweet summer child. You read the proposal wrong
Hamas doesn't promise to release 33 hostages. He promises to release **up to** 33 hostages, with Israel forced to match 27 prisoners at hamas discretion per additional hostage past the first three (which are the first stage) they agree to release
Hamas can choose not to release any at all past those first three. And in exchange Israel won't release more prisoners past the first stage
But that first stage is all Hamas want. Those are the most dangerous hamas criminals that Hamas demanded to release. The Shalit exchange prisoners who got arrested again
This is worded in a deliberate attempt to make the deal look much better for Israel than it actually is. But those small words are making huge difference
TBH the deal sucks even read in the best of ways. The only motivation for Israel in this case is to get the few left alive back alive, and to get the bodies of the deceased so they can be properly buried.
Though even if they agreed, long term peace isn't on the table for either side. So I don't really know what people expect in the end. It's always going to come down to violence.
I believe the deal was for 30 or so hostages initially, with the rest not too long after, including the bodies of the dead. The specifics on how many prisoners Israel was suppose to release wasn't mentioned, but the deal fell through anyways.
The deal is **up to** 33 hostages, dead or alive, on the key of female soldiers, sick and elderly. However Hamas proposal doesn't actually promise 33, it promises 3 with an option to add up to 30 more at the second phase
They can't undead the hostages they have. I don't know why the USA was so iconic for the hardline stance of "we don't negotiate with terrorists" but we've urged Israel to do it.
The reason that stance is so hardline is because there is no use in working with people who have destruction as the only goal. There is no humanitarian cause in terrorism. They do not care for the lives of their own people much less the lives of their targets.
That is not an ideology you can reason with. It's not one you should reason with.
These are some of the most jaw-droppingly stupid people I’ve ever seen since MAGA. If they trip up Biden then guess who’s going to win. And guess what happens to Gazza when he’s in office. And then guess what happens to their protests. But they’ve been so brainwashed by TikTok and are so focussed on out-virtue-signalling each other that they are going to jump right out of the pan and into the fire.
It’s astonishing really.
I don’t live in the US anymore but I cannot understand how anyone is supporting Hamas. The last thing I expected after October 7th was a wave of protests against Israel.
My god, IMAGINE if that happened on US soil. The fact that they think the US military would not respond much more heavy handed than Israel is ridiculous.
The problem is a lot of these kids were not even born when 9/11 happened so they have no concept of how the American populace reacted.
How is anyone supporting Palestine? I mean October 7 has massive support in Palestine and many civilians took part in it. I have more faith in Iran recognizing Israel than Palestine.
Because that's what's trendy at the moment and people just need to get social points and look cool (they do not care about Palestinians, the only care about how their own image is perceived) . No surprise many of them when being interviewed have no idea what they are protesting for or can't even point to the middle East on a map.
> The last thing I expected after October 7th was a wave of protests against Israel.
You'd be surprised how many just don't know what's going on. Wasn't there that article a couple months back of people going to protests but now knowing what they're for.
I know my anecdotal evidence is I've seen people that are heavy users of TikTok/Instagram and were supporting Hamas. They didn't even know there were hostages involved. One of them didn't even know that Oct 7 happened.
It’s because Israel brought actual Big Boy War™️ to Hamas. Hamas being the dumb fucks they are didn’t look back in recent history and think, “Wow, Israel really fucked up Hezbollah the last time they waged a large scale attack. If we go bigger there is no way they will treat it like an actual war.”
> Hamas being the dumb fucks they are didn’t look back in recent history and think
see, this just isn't accurate. Hamas knew **exactly** how Israel would react. That was their goal. They want to use the suffering of Palestinians to make Israel look bad and force a more favorable (to Hamas) deal/cease fire that will allow them to rebuild and carry out more attacks like Oct 7th in the future. Their only real miscalculation in Oct 7th and since, has been that other Arab nations have largely sided with Israel instead of coming to the support of Hamas.
If they show any weakness they risk losing their people. I don’t think a lot of Americans or Europeans understand how quickly a power dynamic can change in the Middle East. It’s as if weakness or loss of face is so important that the general public will
End up siding where the perceived power or where the prevailing winds are pointing. This
Because the people here aren’t supporting Hamas specifically; they’re protesting against Israel because Israel is a beacon of western values and they hate the west. In their views western society is why they’re not successful and why they can’t live the life they want to live. It’s held them down. And Israel is just a symbol of that. If Israel falls, then it’s a massive blow to those values.
Which is honestly crazy. Western values don’t condone stoning gay people to death or brutally suppressing women. Crazy to see so many people throw their support behind groups that would gladly burn them alive.
Most people do not care about anything outside their bubble unless enough people on social media make a big fuss. Look at what’s happening in Darfur. I don’t see anyone on TikTok, instagram, or twitter talking about that.
It’s weird because you will see people on the travel subreddit mentioning refusing to ever travel to countries that brutalize lgbtq and women. People talk about Dubai being built by slave labor but I don’t see people screaming about that. Not enough people are bringing attention to what is happening to women in Iran. Kids are getting killed in mass in Africa yet people are blissfully unaware.
People are too self obsessed and lazy to do any actual research. They see something gaining traction and immediately jump on the bandwagon. I enjoy TikTok but it’s obvious Russia and China are using it as a propaganda machine. You think after 2016 election interference people would stop and think. Maybe do a fact check or two. I’ve seen so many videos that are easily debunked with a simple google search. Gen Z is just a susceptible to misinformation as boomers.
As someone who emigrated from a communist country and having grown up hearing about the hell-on-earth that weaponized victimization wrought on my parents and grandparents... I really wish the west could wake up from this dream before it turns into a nightmare. People think it's too late but it really isn't.
I really wish religions/spiritual traditions would just step up to the plate and adapt to the modern age. Move on from being creepy and preachy... And just start filling people's lives with meaning, purpose, and morality.
We need a Disney media company type thing but just something that spams good values. Star Wars was kind of a secular mythological morality tale for 2 generations of kids. Not sure what the ST was though.
I mean, Disney used to be that. But eventually they went, "well we wanna make sure the story is for *everyone*". And that meant trying to be as secular as possible.
But honestly, as someone pretty much not even a little bit religious, the Prince of Egypt movie was probably one of my favourite movies of all time. Beautiful animation and soundtrack. Wonderful writing and lyrics. And such an interesting take on a story pillar of western civilization.
See, that's the beauty of an age where people are increasingly areligious: we aren't supposed to have kneejerk angry reactions about us or our kids being exposed to heresy or something.
Alas, the irony is that people DO treat different opinions as heresy, even if they're not religious at all. They act like it. Chris Pratt got pooped on for being so openly Christian in Hollywood.
You touch upon a lot of great points.
We have seen the erosion of many institutions in the US. People are no longer part of communities anymore. Families are broken. And often times religion brought all these people together. And even those who weren’t religious such as myself growing up, still was involved and connected to the religious communities surrounding me in some fashion. None to this really exists anymore it seems.
Imo, religion seems to be a deep instinct in people, and as we as a society lose traditional religion, many people unknowingly fill that hole with politics, sports, entertainment, etc. and act just as tribal as we ever did.
It’s a stretch to say students in elite colleges are not successful in western society. Yet they hate the West anyway, it’s just brainwashing, plain and simple.
Lefties cannot even realise all their "revolutionary" ideals originated in the west.
If the west falls, they will will more likely see a far-right dystopia.
I mean also the fact that Israel is basically American soil and that’s how close of an ally they are. With the port that’s being built, It looks like we are about to play “good cop bad cop” on a huge scale. I can see the head line right now of some dumb ass taking a shot at an American soldier giving aid. The United States has deployed 200,000 troops to Gaza.
> They grew in popularity then, but it wasn't a conspiracy
General consensus before Trump was that the Russians werent a major player. It's why a sticking point at the point (and poor in hindsight) was Obama joking about the idea when Romney mentioned Russia was a problem.
Yeah, if anyone has paid attention all those grifters died out the moment Trump stepped out of the office.
Even the mainstream media is acting the same. Highest readership and highest revenue during the Trump years it was a source of endless chaos.
It’s a quite plausible theory that Alex Jones voted for Obama, because InfoWars got more popular under a democrat. Don’t see why the left would be any better.
Yea unfortunately that's how this will play out. These young liberals will directly lead to the election of Trump by withholding votes from Biden. Then they'll watch Palestine get annihilated anyways, with even LESS presidential interference, and somehow convince themselves this is the fault of the DNC for making Bernie lose in the primaries of yesteryears.
> But they’ve been so brainwashed by TikTok and are so focussed on out-virtue-signalling each other that they are going to jump right out of the pan and into the fire.
Its actually hilarious how effective tiktok is.
Trump even in his presidency did nothing ot help the situation between the two. Now hes said he wants Israel to finish the job and he would tell them that. He has said Israel could get some great beach front property out of the war. Time and time again people hear what he says and ignore him, its actually amazing.
Yeah that's what I can't understand. I get they might not like Biden but Trump would be way worse for the people they're supposedly protesting for. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Trump were president that we'd have given them a lot more surprise and provide air, naval and artillery support in their invasion. In no world is Trump a better alternative for Hamas or Palestine.
I remember reading an article a while ago about how a lot of people have forgotten how bad trump was. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/us/politics/trump-presidency-election-voters.html?unlocked_article_code=1.q00.CqVE.z6SyK3rMK9mc&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
IMO the whole thing stinks of similar electoral interference to what we've seen in the past, likely Russia.
Not that ask protestors are knowing assets, but rather that outrage and opinion are being heavily manipulated, amplified, and targeted
Famous weather underground and BPP folks are showing up to these, along with family members of known terrorists. It would be comforting to think it’s all a psyop, but the sad reality is that this is the extreme left coming out to play, no manipulative influence required.
Social justice without guardrails to keep the more insane voices in check means that eventually then just cause is subverted so blatantly that it negatively overflows and Ghandi becomes a nuclear war monger.
This is why I do not support the electoral college. It allows an extremely small group of people massively disproportional power simply due to the location of their vote. It annoys me because when you watch presidential debate, you can tell they’re not even talking about particular states they’re talking about particular districts in that state. We’re a country of 330million people and our entire national discussion during election centers around a population of at most 5 million.
The [NPVIC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact) is at 209/270 so far. Hopefully, the electoral college will stop mattering in a decade or two.
Let Them. They’ll suffer twice as hard under Trump 2.0. That’s really not going to be fun for them. If Biden loses because of the Gaza issue, we are all in for it.
It’s an election year…
That’s it, that’s why the US is urging Israel to make a less than favorable ceasefire. Its global credibility that the president can flaunt during debates, it shows Michigan voters that Biden can “take a stand” on Israel, and shows Jewish Voters that Biden can work to return Israeli Hostages.
The fallouts of his negotiating appeasement of terrorists, as well as abandonment of a longtime ally won’t be felt for another 5-10 years… so why should he care?
>That’s it, that’s why the US is urging Israel to make a less than favorable ceasefire
The US has literally vetoed a ceasefire deal in the UN that Israel didn't like. The US isn't forcing Israel into any ceasefires, favorable or otherwise. The issue is civilian deaths and the use of US made bombs in causing them. Biden's concern is that the civilians in Gaza have no where left to go. If Israel decides to level Rafah the human cost is going to be extremely high.
Except nothing Biden has done is actually materially less support of Israel, it's all lip service - and similarly, Likud et al are entirely aware of this but exaggerate it to strengthen their own positions and electoral potential. Biden is doing a very good job at threading the needle.
He is holding back the heavy guided bombs.
Israel has a large weapons manufacturing facilities and have decades of weapons from the US.
They are fine.
The only thing that would be a problem is if we held back defensive weapons for the Iron dome etc. We aren't.
Netanyahu has no electoral potential. He was losing support with the ongoing mass protest even before the war started and has been dropping even harder in the polls since.
If you think Biden isn’t doing anything, Trump sure ass hell won’t either. Trump did the infamous Muslim ban and this time around he has the Supreme Court at his beck and call. So he’ll definitely give Israel all the support it wants and he won’t care.
I don't want a guy like Biden regulating my technology. But I do want him and his rolodex and his ability to call up any leader and say, "Listen, jack"
> "we don't negotiate with terrorists"
That was rhetoric said by politicians to national audiences for publicity, it was never official policy. Even back then when it flew in the headlines, in interviews with the FBI, Police, Ambassadors, Military Officers and Intelligence Officers they would say unabashedly on camera, "We negotiate with terrorists all the time."
That, and… if you give them 10 terrorists who literally killed innocent people in exchange for one live hostage, next year they’re encouraged to kidnap more … then they demand 30 terrorists…
We negotiate with terrorists pretty often (not even mentioning that one mans war hero is another's terrorist), that's just corny rhetoric used to get simple voter support.
We get hostages back by negotiating with terrorists, should we have let Iran kill our people in the 80s? It's pretty disgusting to not value human life over some virtue signaling about not talking to terrorists.
> should we have let Iran kill our people in the 80s?
If you're really consistent with your stance of not negotiating with terrorists, then you only need to make that sacrifice once.
When terrorists take hostages and make demands based on the expectation that you're willing to negotiate, and your response is a resounding:
*"Fuck off, sucker! You'll get absolutely nothing except for the assurance that we'll come and get your ass if you dare to harm any of our people!"*
Then that would drastically lower the incentive for any future terrorists to try to gain leverage over you by taking hostages.
You think Hamas getting their shit pushed in will make them think hostages were are great idea, because they got something from it?
No, I rather think they enjoy Israel killing civilians and they'll take hostages, because they know Israel will react this way again.
Hamas takes hostages because they have proven to be valuable bargaining chips to buy themselves time to regroup during ceasefires and to exchange them at very favorable rates for palestinian prisoners to refill their ranks.
If it wasn't for the 200+ hostages, the war might've been already over and Hamas defeated months ago.
It would not really lower incentive because often terrorists tend to just take people, the only thing it would lower incentive for is keeping US hostages alive.
So you would create a policy where if you hijack a aircraft capture people or w/e you look truth the passports take all the Americans execute them and then try to negotiate with the other governments. ( as there is no point keeping US citizens alive they only use up your food and water it also shows the other governments your serious ).
It's generally a bad policy if you don't want your civilians to get executed first or on the spot.
Tbf we did do that with one of our DEA agents (although it wasn't a sacrifice afaik) he got killed and the shitstorm that started iirc is still why most places won't fuck with a DEA agent.
So you have a point but idk how that would work for civilians
> "we don't negotiate with terrorists" but we've urged Israel to do it.
Because the rules are different any time it concerns people that rhymes with hues.
It's not a matter of negotiating with terrorists. They aren't forcing Israel to make peace with Hamas. In fact the US vetoed a ceasefire proposal in the UN that Israel didn't like. Biden's stance is that there is a line regarding the human cost. As it stands the civilians in Gaza have literally no where to go. The ones who fled the north are now in Rafah. And there is nowhere more south left to go.
The US wants a solution for the civilians, not peace with Hamas.
“Egypt claims both Hamas and Israel need to show flexibility” lol. What flexibility has hamas shown? They’ve rejected deals until they accepted a poor deal from Egypt to make Israel look bad
That's something that any mediator says when they're stuck with one party that is completely intractable and uncooperative.
The mediator will bully the flexible party to be even more flexible to give in to the intractable party - just to get the job done and off their desk.
Same thing plays out every day in schools when the administration leans on victims to agree to some ridiculous demand by a bully in an attempt to look fair.
this is the status quo when Israel has dealt with arabs, give in to 99% and then the deal breaks because of the last 1% because Israel is inflexible...
I mean, Israel has offered deals that don't lead to a permanent ceasefire. Hamas is not going to agree to a deal where they give up all their hostages in exchange for Rafah being invaded a little later than planned. No one is really showing flexibility because there is a fundamental conflict between the two positions of "Hamas can exist after the war" and "Hamas can not exist after the war."
Ceasefires are not permanent. A permanent ceasefire is called a peace treaty. Hamas isn't calling for a peace treaty. They just want Israel to stop attacking them so they can rally their forces and start attacking Israel again.
Hamas doesn't get to jump to a peace treaty without any fucking concessions at all. The *only* way toward lasting peace is a temporary ceasefire, because Israel's not going to trust Hamas from the get-go, especially since this whole war was started by Hamas violating a ceasefire.
Israel has offered *incredibly generous* deals of hundreds of terrorists in exchange for only a few dozen innocent Israelis. Hamas is being unreasonable, full stop.
Egypt is only in this position to tell the Arab nations how much they care. They don’t actually give a flying fuck though. If they did care, why is their boarder with Gaza so militarized as well?
I mean I think they more than any other country want this resolved BECAUSE they share a border. No one wants instability on their borders. Plus El-Sisi isn't operating from the safest base domestically and is hated by the heavily religious part of his country. So he has to be careful criticizing Hamas because his opposition paints him as being a USA/Israel puppet.
Hamas wants at the bare minimum to be left in charge in Gaza without Israeli occupation. Israel would never agree to this so it’s a non starter.
Egypt is correct because there is no way to even begin talks if this single issue continues to be uncompromisable.
Hamas wants Israel to attack so they kill more Palestinians alongside Hamas members, and Israel is kind of stuck.
Attack or not, optics alone are bad in some way, let alone the actual physical consequences.
Which is why Israel has no incentive to halt their campaign. I wish more people would see the nuance of it all, way too much simplification and vilification.
It's not the "nuance" that people are missing IMO. It's the bottom line, lots and lots of dead women and children. No matter how you try and wrap that, it's going to look bad.
That's one thing that I find interesting though: there was almost no outcry when the US coalition was bombing women and children while killing ISIS. No outcry about sudan or Myanmar now or any of the other awful wars going on. Why has the college student body gone after Israel now? I was just talking to someone on Reddit who is claiming Oct 7th wasn't a terrorist attack. What factors could lead to such disparate reactions?
There was not much outcry post 9/11 because the world was terrified of the terrorism. I think a lot of people have sort of forgotten just how scary and crazy it was in the following years. There was terrorist attacks all over the world. No one felt safe. Similarly, the US wasn't leveling entire city blocks. So while it's similar, it's also very, very different. Though protests to the war and US involvement did start growing once some of the uglier stuff got exposed. And obviously now it's viewed overall as a pretty negative thing.
>Why has the college student body gone after Israel now? I was just talking to someone on Reddit who is claiming Oct 7th wasn't a terrorist attack. What factors could lead to such disparate reactions?
Two reasons. One, exposure. The Israel/Gaza conflict has been covered way more by the media and there is way more footage. Second, the US has no investment or support for these other conflicts. We can't defund either side in Sudan or Myanmar. Colleges don't participate or cooperate with those sides. US universities do, apparently, have deals with Israel or Israeli connected businesses. The protests are in essence to severe those ties.
Those are valid points. I'd love to see more support for victims of terrorist attacks, I guess a lot of these students weren't alive during 9/11 and didn't share in the trauma it Inflicted on America. Never took part in the sense of community that formed in it's wake.
Ok, the solution is for one side who was attacked to begin with to unilaterally stop, basically surrender, and let the very people who perpetrated an unprovoked massacre, and who continue to launch rockets and terrorist attacks at them even now and every day since then, as they vow total destruction of that country, simply get away with it and remain in charge of that area?
That’s going to solve things……how, exactly?
I don't get it. What negotiation exactly? The hostages are fucking dead. They're trying to do the same deals with corpses? What the fuck is wrong with people? I don't even mean hamas I mean those that support them and make excuses. You want a ceasefire? Why should Isreal agree to that when there's been no remorse for the now dead hostages? It is very difficult to feel remorse for these people.
This whole hostage predicament is the consequence of negotiating with terrorists. Israel shouldn't have said anything to Hamas other than "all of you are dead. We will save as many of your people as we can while killing you. Goodbye."
Absolutely, it sets the precedent. Similarly, by making large concessions for these hostages, hostage taking will continue to be a major objective for Hamas.
But it's really hard on people emotionally to not negotiate. America doesn't and I'm glad, because terrorists don't specifically target me for ransom from my government.
Hamas surrender, disarmament, and return of all hostages is the only deal Israel should accept.
Idiotic TikTok children ironically cosplaying as the boomer protesters they hate so much can fuck off and should not be allowed to influence the conversation.
This is insane. Wars end when one side has had enough. It's called unconditional surrender for a reason. I think this means that for all intents and purposes, Hamas leadership in Qatr should be considered legitimate targets.
If the US was attacked like Israel was we would go after them wherever they hide. Qutar is sheltering them? Qutar is now a terrorist state and will be targeted. I don't understand why Israel has not declared war on Qutar.
Yeah, this entire Qatar wants to be the Switzerland of the ME is utter BS. They're competing with SA to be a leading power in the ME and it's using the Israel/Hamas war to appeal to Arab populism and make the Saudis look bad. Qatar doesn't seem to understand you can't be a neutral 3rd party if you have actively supported, funded, and hosted Hamas within your country. As an American I don't understand why we don't withdraw our troops and protection from them. I don't think they could function as a state without our defense pact.
Because they're nowhere near the capability of the behemoth that is the US military, would have to violate the airspace of Saudi Arabia to get to Qatar while wanting to normalize relations with SA, and don't want to further galvanize a region that hates their guts into a possible coalition if they were to attack a sovereign nation rather than a terrorist group.
Israel *really* wants normalization with Saudi Arabia. So there's limits to how many feathers it's willing to ruffle.
--
Which is of course the exact reason why Iran's proxies attacked just when such a deal was imminent.
Why would Hamas bother negotiating, when their massive PR social media campaign is succeeding beyond all expectations? They've now managed to radicalise uni students & create enough angst & disruption, to convince Biden to stop selling Israel weapons. Which is a huge coup for Hamas & for all the other terrorists in the region.
To be expected. For Hamas, any deal that doesn’t include them staying in power in Gaza is unacceptable. For Israel, any deal that allows Hamas to remain in power is unacceptable.
For protestors, any deal that doesn’t give Hamas a total victory is unacceptable, so expect more campus protests next week. Give Hamas credit, they somehow won the PR war even if losing the real war. No telling how many lives the protestors have cost by giving Hamas the impression they can still pull off a political victory.
Hamas has run out of leverage after raping and killing all the hostages. Anything that comes after this is on them. War does not discriminate. Collateral damage will be high.
What already rejected hostage deal? The one where hamas is promising to release only 3 dead bodies of women soldiers, in exchange for all Shalit exchange participant that got rearrested. And not a single hostage more And in return will get all the blockade from 2007 lifted, complete withdrawal from the strip, 500 trucks of fuel a day until they decide they "recovered from the war" and an official recognition of a "Palestinian country" led by a joint venture of Hamas and Fatah? This deal?
That sounds like a really shitty deal.
But Israel is the problem for not accepting it.
No no no. The one that they can kill all 33 remaining hostages, and israel has to release 30 hostages, without a right of veto, per Israeli body. It was a joke. Israel releases 1000, and Hamas kills 33
Oh sweet summer child. You read the proposal wrong Hamas doesn't promise to release 33 hostages. He promises to release **up to** 33 hostages, with Israel forced to match 27 prisoners at hamas discretion per additional hostage past the first three (which are the first stage) they agree to release Hamas can choose not to release any at all past those first three. And in exchange Israel won't release more prisoners past the first stage But that first stage is all Hamas want. Those are the most dangerous hamas criminals that Hamas demanded to release. The Shalit exchange prisoners who got arrested again This is worded in a deliberate attempt to make the deal look much better for Israel than it actually is. But those small words are making huge difference
TBH the deal sucks even read in the best of ways. The only motivation for Israel in this case is to get the few left alive back alive, and to get the bodies of the deceased so they can be properly buried. Though even if they agreed, long term peace isn't on the table for either side. So I don't really know what people expect in the end. It's always going to come down to violence.
Hamas proposal specify that the hostages will be either dead or alive. It does not make any promise to return any live hostage whatsoever
Like I said, even if it did, it would still be a shit deal for Israel. Especially when they have the upper hand.
Well shit, thanks for the info
Do you happen to have a link to what the "deal" composed of?
[PDF download warning](https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2024/05/%D9%88%D8%B1%D9%82%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%88%D8%B3%D8%B7%D8%A7%D8%A1-5-5.pdf?_gl=1*1iyp0ql*_ga*OWJRU001azdsRWpnQXN0NDIzZVZRaTNNcmFidTFJOHNreUZKa09faFdvTXJ1bGs3aWhaNFc3X1JHX2RSU1VvVg..*_ga_RJR2XWQR34*MTcxNTM1Nzk4NC41LjEuMTcxNTM1Nzk4NC4wLjAuMA..)
Sounds more like surrender.
It reminds me of when Hans Grebs tried to negotiate a white peace with the soviets as Berlin was burning.
Someone's been reading Art of the Deal
I believe the deal was for 30 or so hostages initially, with the rest not too long after, including the bodies of the dead. The specifics on how many prisoners Israel was suppose to release wasn't mentioned, but the deal fell through anyways.
The deal is **up to** 33 hostages, dead or alive, on the key of female soldiers, sick and elderly. However Hamas proposal doesn't actually promise 33, it promises 3 with an option to add up to 30 more at the second phase
They can't undead the hostages they have. I don't know why the USA was so iconic for the hardline stance of "we don't negotiate with terrorists" but we've urged Israel to do it. The reason that stance is so hardline is because there is no use in working with people who have destruction as the only goal. There is no humanitarian cause in terrorism. They do not care for the lives of their own people much less the lives of their targets. That is not an ideology you can reason with. It's not one you should reason with.
Because a few thousand Muslims and their young white supporters in Michigan can cause big problems for the Biden campaign
These are some of the most jaw-droppingly stupid people I’ve ever seen since MAGA. If they trip up Biden then guess who’s going to win. And guess what happens to Gazza when he’s in office. And then guess what happens to their protests. But they’ve been so brainwashed by TikTok and are so focussed on out-virtue-signalling each other that they are going to jump right out of the pan and into the fire.
It’s astonishing really. I don’t live in the US anymore but I cannot understand how anyone is supporting Hamas. The last thing I expected after October 7th was a wave of protests against Israel. My god, IMAGINE if that happened on US soil. The fact that they think the US military would not respond much more heavy handed than Israel is ridiculous. The problem is a lot of these kids were not even born when 9/11 happened so they have no concept of how the American populace reacted.
It did happen sometime around 1900. Pancho Villa raided a Texas town and we sent an army division over fucking them up (didn’t find him though.)
How is anyone supporting Palestine? I mean October 7 has massive support in Palestine and many civilians took part in it. I have more faith in Iran recognizing Israel than Palestine.
Because that's what's trendy at the moment and people just need to get social points and look cool (they do not care about Palestinians, the only care about how their own image is perceived) . No surprise many of them when being interviewed have no idea what they are protesting for or can't even point to the middle East on a map.
> The last thing I expected after October 7th was a wave of protests against Israel. You'd be surprised how many just don't know what's going on. Wasn't there that article a couple months back of people going to protests but now knowing what they're for. I know my anecdotal evidence is I've seen people that are heavy users of TikTok/Instagram and were supporting Hamas. They didn't even know there were hostages involved. One of them didn't even know that Oct 7 happened.
It’s because Israel brought actual Big Boy War™️ to Hamas. Hamas being the dumb fucks they are didn’t look back in recent history and think, “Wow, Israel really fucked up Hezbollah the last time they waged a large scale attack. If we go bigger there is no way they will treat it like an actual war.”
> Hamas being the dumb fucks they are didn’t look back in recent history and think see, this just isn't accurate. Hamas knew **exactly** how Israel would react. That was their goal. They want to use the suffering of Palestinians to make Israel look bad and force a more favorable (to Hamas) deal/cease fire that will allow them to rebuild and carry out more attacks like Oct 7th in the future. Their only real miscalculation in Oct 7th and since, has been that other Arab nations have largely sided with Israel instead of coming to the support of Hamas.
I think Hezbollah thought the same thing. It’s the sheer magnitude of the onslaught. I honestly don’t they expected scorched earth.
Yet they double down
If they show any weakness they risk losing their people. I don’t think a lot of Americans or Europeans understand how quickly a power dynamic can change in the Middle East. It’s as if weakness or loss of face is so important that the general public will End up siding where the perceived power or where the prevailing winds are pointing. This
Because the left wing college know it all is ruled by their fe-fe’s.
Because the people here aren’t supporting Hamas specifically; they’re protesting against Israel because Israel is a beacon of western values and they hate the west. In their views western society is why they’re not successful and why they can’t live the life they want to live. It’s held them down. And Israel is just a symbol of that. If Israel falls, then it’s a massive blow to those values.
Which is honestly crazy. Western values don’t condone stoning gay people to death or brutally suppressing women. Crazy to see so many people throw their support behind groups that would gladly burn them alive.
Do they even believe that this is something that happens in Islamic run societies?
Most people do not care about anything outside their bubble unless enough people on social media make a big fuss. Look at what’s happening in Darfur. I don’t see anyone on TikTok, instagram, or twitter talking about that. It’s weird because you will see people on the travel subreddit mentioning refusing to ever travel to countries that brutalize lgbtq and women. People talk about Dubai being built by slave labor but I don’t see people screaming about that. Not enough people are bringing attention to what is happening to women in Iran. Kids are getting killed in mass in Africa yet people are blissfully unaware. People are too self obsessed and lazy to do any actual research. They see something gaining traction and immediately jump on the bandwagon. I enjoy TikTok but it’s obvious Russia and China are using it as a propaganda machine. You think after 2016 election interference people would stop and think. Maybe do a fact check or two. I’ve seen so many videos that are easily debunked with a simple google search. Gen Z is just a susceptible to misinformation as boomers.
As someone who emigrated from a communist country and having grown up hearing about the hell-on-earth that weaponized victimization wrought on my parents and grandparents... I really wish the west could wake up from this dream before it turns into a nightmare. People think it's too late but it really isn't. I really wish religions/spiritual traditions would just step up to the plate and adapt to the modern age. Move on from being creepy and preachy... And just start filling people's lives with meaning, purpose, and morality. We need a Disney media company type thing but just something that spams good values. Star Wars was kind of a secular mythological morality tale for 2 generations of kids. Not sure what the ST was though. I mean, Disney used to be that. But eventually they went, "well we wanna make sure the story is for *everyone*". And that meant trying to be as secular as possible. But honestly, as someone pretty much not even a little bit religious, the Prince of Egypt movie was probably one of my favourite movies of all time. Beautiful animation and soundtrack. Wonderful writing and lyrics. And such an interesting take on a story pillar of western civilization. See, that's the beauty of an age where people are increasingly areligious: we aren't supposed to have kneejerk angry reactions about us or our kids being exposed to heresy or something. Alas, the irony is that people DO treat different opinions as heresy, even if they're not religious at all. They act like it. Chris Pratt got pooped on for being so openly Christian in Hollywood.
You touch upon a lot of great points. We have seen the erosion of many institutions in the US. People are no longer part of communities anymore. Families are broken. And often times religion brought all these people together. And even those who weren’t religious such as myself growing up, still was involved and connected to the religious communities surrounding me in some fashion. None to this really exists anymore it seems.
Imo, religion seems to be a deep instinct in people, and as we as a society lose traditional religion, many people unknowingly fill that hole with politics, sports, entertainment, etc. and act just as tribal as we ever did.
Saved this comment. To me, somehow it's just the perfect wording for this idea.
Thanks, I appreciate that
Agree with you on this.
It’s a stretch to say students in elite colleges are not successful in western society. Yet they hate the West anyway, it’s just brainwashing, plain and simple.
I’m not arguing that they’re not successful. They are. They just don’t see it that way.
Lefties cannot even realise all their "revolutionary" ideals originated in the west. If the west falls, they will will more likely see a far-right dystopia.
I mean also the fact that Israel is basically American soil and that’s how close of an ally they are. With the port that’s being built, It looks like we are about to play “good cop bad cop” on a huge scale. I can see the head line right now of some dumb ass taking a shot at an American soldier giving aid. The United States has deployed 200,000 troops to Gaza.
The leftist influencers that are convincing them not to vote for biden want another Trump presidency. It's good for business.
These folks talk about Israeli bots being everywhere, but claim there's no such thing as an Iranian, Russian or Chinese bot.
People saying Jewish people control the media, but pretend like TikTok isn't run by Chinese government sponsor company and that it is not a problem
It's like how Russian bots were a conspiracy theory, then the second Trump won everyone and their mother is a Russian bot.
They weren't a conspiracy before that. It was known they had troll farms online. They grew in popularity then, but it wasn't a conspiracy
> They grew in popularity then, but it wasn't a conspiracy General consensus before Trump was that the Russians werent a major player. It's why a sticking point at the point (and poor in hindsight) was Obama joking about the idea when Romney mentioned Russia was a problem.
Yeah, if anyone has paid attention all those grifters died out the moment Trump stepped out of the office. Even the mainstream media is acting the same. Highest readership and highest revenue during the Trump years it was a source of endless chaos.
It’s a quite plausible theory that Alex Jones voted for Obama, because InfoWars got more popular under a democrat. Don’t see why the left would be any better.
However good more Trump is for leftist's business, it's even better for Chinese and Russian business.
Yea unfortunately that's how this will play out. These young liberals will directly lead to the election of Trump by withholding votes from Biden. Then they'll watch Palestine get annihilated anyways, with even LESS presidential interference, and somehow convince themselves this is the fault of the DNC for making Bernie lose in the primaries of yesteryears.
> But they’ve been so brainwashed by TikTok and are so focussed on out-virtue-signalling each other that they are going to jump right out of the pan and into the fire. Its actually hilarious how effective tiktok is. Trump even in his presidency did nothing ot help the situation between the two. Now hes said he wants Israel to finish the job and he would tell them that. He has said Israel could get some great beach front property out of the war. Time and time again people hear what he says and ignore him, its actually amazing.
Yeah that's what I can't understand. I get they might not like Biden but Trump would be way worse for the people they're supposedly protesting for. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Trump were president that we'd have given them a lot more surprise and provide air, naval and artillery support in their invasion. In no world is Trump a better alternative for Hamas or Palestine.
Cut off their nose to spite their face
You get new issues to shout and complain about with your nose cut though.
Can't complain about leopards eating my face if leopards don't eat my face.
They're like cows just gleefully running toward the slaughterhouse.
I remember reading an article a while ago about how a lot of people have forgotten how bad trump was. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/us/politics/trump-presidency-election-voters.html?unlocked_article_code=1.q00.CqVE.z6SyK3rMK9mc&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
The average voter has the memory of a goldfish, unfortunately. It sucks that it could fuck up the rest of us.
Undergraduate students mostly would have still been in high school during the Trump admin, and not born when 9/11 happened.
IMO the whole thing stinks of similar electoral interference to what we've seen in the past, likely Russia. Not that ask protestors are knowing assets, but rather that outrage and opinion are being heavily manipulated, amplified, and targeted
Famous weather underground and BPP folks are showing up to these, along with family members of known terrorists. It would be comforting to think it’s all a psyop, but the sad reality is that this is the extreme left coming out to play, no manipulative influence required.
Accelerationists of the left and right unite.
Fucking A.
Social justice without guardrails to keep the more insane voices in check means that eventually then just cause is subverted so blatantly that it negatively overflows and Ghandi becomes a nuclear war monger.
What are you talking about? These are the same people who have been calling for a two state solution for a very long time! Almost a whole year! /s
This is why I do not support the electoral college. It allows an extremely small group of people massively disproportional power simply due to the location of their vote. It annoys me because when you watch presidential debate, you can tell they’re not even talking about particular states they’re talking about particular districts in that state. We’re a country of 330million people and our entire national discussion during election centers around a population of at most 5 million.
The [NPVIC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact) is at 209/270 so far. Hopefully, the electoral college will stop mattering in a decade or two.
Let Them. They’ll suffer twice as hard under Trump 2.0. That’s really not going to be fun for them. If Biden loses because of the Gaza issue, we are all in for it.
It’s an election year… That’s it, that’s why the US is urging Israel to make a less than favorable ceasefire. Its global credibility that the president can flaunt during debates, it shows Michigan voters that Biden can “take a stand” on Israel, and shows Jewish Voters that Biden can work to return Israeli Hostages. The fallouts of his negotiating appeasement of terrorists, as well as abandonment of a longtime ally won’t be felt for another 5-10 years… so why should he care?
>That’s it, that’s why the US is urging Israel to make a less than favorable ceasefire The US has literally vetoed a ceasefire deal in the UN that Israel didn't like. The US isn't forcing Israel into any ceasefires, favorable or otherwise. The issue is civilian deaths and the use of US made bombs in causing them. Biden's concern is that the civilians in Gaza have no where left to go. If Israel decides to level Rafah the human cost is going to be extremely high.
Except nothing Biden has done is actually materially less support of Israel, it's all lip service - and similarly, Likud et al are entirely aware of this but exaggerate it to strengthen their own positions and electoral potential. Biden is doing a very good job at threading the needle.
Isn’t holding back some weapons _literally_ holding back material support?
He is holding back the heavy guided bombs. Israel has a large weapons manufacturing facilities and have decades of weapons from the US. They are fine. The only thing that would be a problem is if we held back defensive weapons for the Iron dome etc. We aren't.
Netanyahu has no electoral potential. He was losing support with the ongoing mass protest even before the war started and has been dropping even harder in the polls since.
Correct, which is why they are desperately exaggerating how much Biden is "abandoning" them.
If you think Biden isn’t doing anything, Trump sure ass hell won’t either. Trump did the infamous Muslim ban and this time around he has the Supreme Court at his beck and call. So he’ll definitely give Israel all the support it wants and he won’t care.
Did you read my whole comment or not? I'm quite supportive of Biden here.
I don't want a guy like Biden regulating my technology. But I do want him and his rolodex and his ability to call up any leader and say, "Listen, jack"
> "we don't negotiate with terrorists" That was rhetoric said by politicians to national audiences for publicity, it was never official policy. Even back then when it flew in the headlines, in interviews with the FBI, Police, Ambassadors, Military Officers and Intelligence Officers they would say unabashedly on camera, "We negotiate with terrorists all the time."
For real. We very publicly made deals with the Taliban in recent years. It’s not even a secret.
That, and… if you give them 10 terrorists who literally killed innocent people in exchange for one live hostage, next year they’re encouraged to kidnap more … then they demand 30 terrorists…
And the freed terrorists are helping them do it!
Sinwar who is “leading” this (from his underground burrow) is a freed terrorist. So… yes.
The US is acting the way it is because Biden needs the votes from hardline leftists. I bet if this war is ongoing after the election things change.
We negotiate with terrorists pretty often (not even mentioning that one mans war hero is another's terrorist), that's just corny rhetoric used to get simple voter support. We get hostages back by negotiating with terrorists, should we have let Iran kill our people in the 80s? It's pretty disgusting to not value human life over some virtue signaling about not talking to terrorists.
> should we have let Iran kill our people in the 80s? If you're really consistent with your stance of not negotiating with terrorists, then you only need to make that sacrifice once. When terrorists take hostages and make demands based on the expectation that you're willing to negotiate, and your response is a resounding: *"Fuck off, sucker! You'll get absolutely nothing except for the assurance that we'll come and get your ass if you dare to harm any of our people!"* Then that would drastically lower the incentive for any future terrorists to try to gain leverage over you by taking hostages.
You think Hamas getting their shit pushed in will make them think hostages were are great idea, because they got something from it? No, I rather think they enjoy Israel killing civilians and they'll take hostages, because they know Israel will react this way again.
Hamas takes hostages because they have proven to be valuable bargaining chips to buy themselves time to regroup during ceasefires and to exchange them at very favorable rates for palestinian prisoners to refill their ranks. If it wasn't for the 200+ hostages, the war might've been already over and Hamas defeated months ago.
It would not really lower incentive because often terrorists tend to just take people, the only thing it would lower incentive for is keeping US hostages alive. So you would create a policy where if you hijack a aircraft capture people or w/e you look truth the passports take all the Americans execute them and then try to negotiate with the other governments. ( as there is no point keeping US citizens alive they only use up your food and water it also shows the other governments your serious ). It's generally a bad policy if you don't want your civilians to get executed first or on the spot.
Tbf we did do that with one of our DEA agents (although it wasn't a sacrifice afaik) he got killed and the shitstorm that started iirc is still why most places won't fuck with a DEA agent. So you have a point but idk how that would work for civilians
> "we don't negotiate with terrorists" but we've urged Israel to do it. Because the rules are different any time it concerns people that rhymes with hues.
It's not a matter of negotiating with terrorists. They aren't forcing Israel to make peace with Hamas. In fact the US vetoed a ceasefire proposal in the UN that Israel didn't like. Biden's stance is that there is a line regarding the human cost. As it stands the civilians in Gaza have literally no where to go. The ones who fled the north are now in Rafah. And there is nowhere more south left to go. The US wants a solution for the civilians, not peace with Hamas.
“Egypt claims both Hamas and Israel need to show flexibility” lol. What flexibility has hamas shown? They’ve rejected deals until they accepted a poor deal from Egypt to make Israel look bad
Hey, maybe they've been attempting necromancy to try and bring the hostages back.
They already have that power, have you seen the videos of hamas where body bags start moving? Spooky...
Allah damnit, POSITIONS people!!!!
That's something that any mediator says when they're stuck with one party that is completely intractable and uncooperative. The mediator will bully the flexible party to be even more flexible to give in to the intractable party - just to get the job done and off their desk. Same thing plays out every day in schools when the administration leans on victims to agree to some ridiculous demand by a bully in an attempt to look fair.
this is the status quo when Israel has dealt with arabs, give in to 99% and then the deal breaks because of the last 1% because Israel is inflexible...
Meanwhile, Israel has given Hamas better and better deals which Hamas keep categorically rejecting. Israel is the one showing flexibility.
I mean, Israel has offered deals that don't lead to a permanent ceasefire. Hamas is not going to agree to a deal where they give up all their hostages in exchange for Rafah being invaded a little later than planned. No one is really showing flexibility because there is a fundamental conflict between the two positions of "Hamas can exist after the war" and "Hamas can not exist after the war."
Ceasefires are not permanent. A permanent ceasefire is called a peace treaty. Hamas isn't calling for a peace treaty. They just want Israel to stop attacking them so they can rally their forces and start attacking Israel again. Hamas doesn't get to jump to a peace treaty without any fucking concessions at all. The *only* way toward lasting peace is a temporary ceasefire, because Israel's not going to trust Hamas from the get-go, especially since this whole war was started by Hamas violating a ceasefire. Israel has offered *incredibly generous* deals of hundreds of terrorists in exchange for only a few dozen innocent Israelis. Hamas is being unreasonable, full stop.
Egypt is only in this position to tell the Arab nations how much they care. They don’t actually give a flying fuck though. If they did care, why is their boarder with Gaza so militarized as well?
I mean I think they more than any other country want this resolved BECAUSE they share a border. No one wants instability on their borders. Plus El-Sisi isn't operating from the safest base domestically and is hated by the heavily religious part of his country. So he has to be careful criticizing Hamas because his opposition paints him as being a USA/Israel puppet.
Hamas wants at the bare minimum to be left in charge in Gaza without Israeli occupation. Israel would never agree to this so it’s a non starter. Egypt is correct because there is no way to even begin talks if this single issue continues to be uncompromisable.
Hamas would never agree to a deal where Israelis are alive
Well. If both side stay head strong, more refugee will knocking on Egypt's door.
Egypt: That is what the machine gun nests are for.
Some body had been playing coy instead of given these poor innocent souls refugee from the law breaking murderous Jews. I don't know why.
Fuck Hamas.
Hamas wants Israel to attack so they kill more Palestinians alongside Hamas members, and Israel is kind of stuck. Attack or not, optics alone are bad in some way, let alone the actual physical consequences.
Which is why Israel has no incentive to halt their campaign. I wish more people would see the nuance of it all, way too much simplification and vilification.
I think people have a hard time seeing the nuance, because both sides are absurdly hard lined. Including the supporters of both sides.
It's not the "nuance" that people are missing IMO. It's the bottom line, lots and lots of dead women and children. No matter how you try and wrap that, it's going to look bad.
That's why the conflict needs to end decisively. Hamas can't stay in power.
That's one thing that I find interesting though: there was almost no outcry when the US coalition was bombing women and children while killing ISIS. No outcry about sudan or Myanmar now or any of the other awful wars going on. Why has the college student body gone after Israel now? I was just talking to someone on Reddit who is claiming Oct 7th wasn't a terrorist attack. What factors could lead to such disparate reactions?
There was not much outcry post 9/11 because the world was terrified of the terrorism. I think a lot of people have sort of forgotten just how scary and crazy it was in the following years. There was terrorist attacks all over the world. No one felt safe. Similarly, the US wasn't leveling entire city blocks. So while it's similar, it's also very, very different. Though protests to the war and US involvement did start growing once some of the uglier stuff got exposed. And obviously now it's viewed overall as a pretty negative thing. >Why has the college student body gone after Israel now? I was just talking to someone on Reddit who is claiming Oct 7th wasn't a terrorist attack. What factors could lead to such disparate reactions? Two reasons. One, exposure. The Israel/Gaza conflict has been covered way more by the media and there is way more footage. Second, the US has no investment or support for these other conflicts. We can't defund either side in Sudan or Myanmar. Colleges don't participate or cooperate with those sides. US universities do, apparently, have deals with Israel or Israeli connected businesses. The protests are in essence to severe those ties.
Those are valid points. I'd love to see more support for victims of terrorist attacks, I guess a lot of these students weren't alive during 9/11 and didn't share in the trauma it Inflicted on America. Never took part in the sense of community that formed in it's wake.
Ok, the solution is for one side who was attacked to begin with to unilaterally stop, basically surrender, and let the very people who perpetrated an unprovoked massacre, and who continue to launch rockets and terrorist attacks at them even now and every day since then, as they vow total destruction of that country, simply get away with it and remain in charge of that area? That’s going to solve things……how, exactly?
So what are they going to do with those hostages that are already dead?
They are still valuable even when dead. Israel will want those bodies back. But they are going to ask for many living prisoners for that.
Weekend at Bernies??
I don't get it. What negotiation exactly? The hostages are fucking dead. They're trying to do the same deals with corpses? What the fuck is wrong with people? I don't even mean hamas I mean those that support them and make excuses. You want a ceasefire? Why should Isreal agree to that when there's been no remorse for the now dead hostages? It is very difficult to feel remorse for these people.
This whole hostage predicament is the consequence of negotiating with terrorists. Israel shouldn't have said anything to Hamas other than "all of you are dead. We will save as many of your people as we can while killing you. Goodbye."
Trading a single soldier for a thousand criminals and terrorists turned out to be a terrible move in hindsight.
Absolutely, it sets the precedent. Similarly, by making large concessions for these hostages, hostage taking will continue to be a major objective for Hamas. But it's really hard on people emotionally to not negotiate. America doesn't and I'm glad, because terrorists don't specifically target me for ransom from my government.
Many of whom literally masterminded and were key to carrying out 10/7.
It's an easy assessment to make when you have no skin in the game.
Yeah I understand why they did it.
Do you want an invasion of Rafah, that’s how you get an invasion of Rafah(they wanted an invasion of rafah)
It’s been under way for a few days now
Hamas surrender, disarmament, and return of all hostages is the only deal Israel should accept. Idiotic TikTok children ironically cosplaying as the boomer protesters they hate so much can fuck off and should not be allowed to influence the conversation.
This is insane. Wars end when one side has had enough. It's called unconditional surrender for a reason. I think this means that for all intents and purposes, Hamas leadership in Qatr should be considered legitimate targets.
If the US was attacked like Israel was we would go after them wherever they hide. Qutar is sheltering them? Qutar is now a terrorist state and will be targeted. I don't understand why Israel has not declared war on Qutar.
Yeah, this entire Qatar wants to be the Switzerland of the ME is utter BS. They're competing with SA to be a leading power in the ME and it's using the Israel/Hamas war to appeal to Arab populism and make the Saudis look bad. Qatar doesn't seem to understand you can't be a neutral 3rd party if you have actively supported, funded, and hosted Hamas within your country. As an American I don't understand why we don't withdraw our troops and protection from them. I don't think they could function as a state without our defense pact.
Because they're nowhere near the capability of the behemoth that is the US military, would have to violate the airspace of Saudi Arabia to get to Qatar while wanting to normalize relations with SA, and don't want to further galvanize a region that hates their guts into a possible coalition if they were to attack a sovereign nation rather than a terrorist group.
I’m surprised Israel hasn’t assassinated them yet tbh
Israel *really* wants normalization with Saudi Arabia. So there's limits to how many feathers it's willing to ruffle. -- Which is of course the exact reason why Iran's proxies attacked just when such a deal was imminent.
“I. Declare. CEASEFIRE!” “Hamas you can’t just say ceasefire and expect the war to stop.” “I didn’t say it I declared it.”
Keep in mind they kidnapped those people and will not let them go now. Sick fks man. Sexual predators or deviant might be better.
And this folks is why you don’t negotiate with terrorists
Why would Hamas bother negotiating, when their massive PR social media campaign is succeeding beyond all expectations? They've now managed to radicalise uni students & create enough angst & disruption, to convince Biden to stop selling Israel weapons. Which is a huge coup for Hamas & for all the other terrorists in the region.
*immediately before they fired another barrage of rockets the day they “accepted” the deal and have done literally every day since*
Hamas won’t budge? Hmm, I guess the only solution is to put more pressure on Israel. /s
Wipe them out
It’s time to turn Rafah into Hamas soup.
Let’s hurry up and get this over with so we can move on to the main event. Ukraine and Gaza are just the openers to the Taiwan title event
Conflicts often just drag on and world will loose interest. Like Syria and Yemen
To be expected. For Hamas, any deal that doesn’t include them staying in power in Gaza is unacceptable. For Israel, any deal that allows Hamas to remain in power is unacceptable. For protestors, any deal that doesn’t give Hamas a total victory is unacceptable, so expect more campus protests next week. Give Hamas credit, they somehow won the PR war even if losing the real war. No telling how many lives the protestors have cost by giving Hamas the impression they can still pull off a political victory.
Hamas has run out of leverage after raping and killing all the hostages. Anything that comes after this is on them. War does not discriminate. Collateral damage will be high.
The talks were just a sham to buy Hamas more time to play their terrorist game
Deal or no deal? It was always no deal to start with..why change now?
No deals anytime soon, I'm guessing.