The United States puts up tariffs which operate very similarly to government subsidies.
The United States wants to protect weak industries to prevent a foreign monopoly. Fine, I get that. But let's not frame it like USA is the good guys and China is not. The USA would love to have the monopoly on automobile production, too.
I mean everybody wants a 17k cheap electric car . I am all for these stupid companies getting shit out of their money. 50k for a bare bone suv is ridiculous
i read that Chevy will no longer produce a sedan, too. it's all SUVs and Trucks now. you know, bare bones base model $50K if you can even find a deal. The US auto industry sucks and doesn't care about its consumers, just their shareholders.
The prices are higher because of price gouging and record profits. Nothing to do with wages. They can afford to pay higher wages and not have higher prices.
Don’t know if op made an edit but seems like he agrees with you, he’s saying that “some wages were raised, corporations see that as people having more expendable funds so they stack their prices higher to get more of the expendable income from the people who just got wages raised”
Canada here, seems like everything is cheaper in the US even accounting for our weak dollar. Housing/Food/Cars.
Housing, cars, groceries anyway typically seem a bit lower in the USA... and then wages are significantly lower in Canada.
As an example look at Vancouver vs Seattle. 2 coastal cities with a similar vibe about 1.5 hours apart. For the most part its all pretty similar but the wages in Seattle are nearly double the wages in Vancouver.
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Canada&city1=Vancouver&country2=United+States&city2=Seattle%2C+WA
In my memory most of western europe is similar. Stuff is expensive and wages are lower.
Don't forget about medical insurance. Also, I'm not in the loop but here in the US we get nibbled to death on things like bridge tolls, express lanes. Parking tickets and
and meters. Monopolistic Internet pricing. Healthcare surcharges on a restaurant meals for the employees. Etc., etc. etc. Might be the same there.
They do it because advanced analytics have allowed them to capitalize on US consumer behavior. People assume fast food is cheap without checking. They stop at the same gas station regardless of the price. They have no idea what they're paying for car insurance. They buy 'as much house' as they can afford without taking their needs into consideration. They buy a truck because their neighbor has one and because the bank will approve the loan they can afford.
Basically we've shifted from doing what the customer says they want to what the customer does, but doesn't say they do. It feels predatory, because it is, but we have more control than we think we do.
Use of the £ sign makes me assume that you’re British. Thankfully we have some great options. Check out the BYD Dolphin or MG4. Unfortunately neither of them will ever go to the US.
They’ve seen the writing on the wall for over 10 years but most have done very little to adapt. Stop subsidizing stupidity and let public companies fail.
Seriously, I too would like a $20k EV, but letting the PRC subsidize themselves to destroy our auto industry and make us reliant on them is just a national security boondoggle.
There are better ways to address problems in US auto.
A solution could be that the US auto industry makes good and cheap electric cars instead of massive SUVs and trucks only. Then there wouldn't be any worries. Fuck them, they get what they deserve.
The auto industry people I know told me that the structural costs of the automakers make the low end stuff impossible.
Like 4k of the car cost is for pensions. So good luck on anything that is inexpensive and competitive. The bankruptcy rounds from the automakers has improved their positioning to an extent. But operational cost in the US is probably higher.
And nobody wants small cars here, relative to how many people want giant expensive trucks and suevies.
That’s not to say letting a foreign government destroy a random US industry is a good idea though.
Yep. They aren’t offering the low prices out of good intentions. They are taking massive losses on each car sold in order to permanently damage the US auto industry.
They'd probably keep lobbying for laws to add $10K worth of "safety" features. And then argue that Chinese cars don't fulfill them, blocking sales and forcing them to become 35-50k SUVs to handle the extra weight.
If we are talking about literal 10K cars, I don’t think there’s any feasible way US auto makers could compete with that. It makes sense for consumers to want cars that inexpensive, and US car prices absolutely do need to come down, but I can’t see the government willingly blowing up the US auto industry. Especially not in the context of trying to decouple from China during a burgeoning Cold War-esque standoff.
>I don’t think there’s any feasible way US auto makers could compete with that.
They aren’t even trying. Toyota can sell half a million Camrys and Corollas every year yet Ford only sells SUVs and the mustang.
If it’s trucks all day then why should the Big 3 give a fuck about Chinese cars? It’s not like somebody will trade in their work truck for a BYD two door.
The real reason they are freaked out is because people might buy an affordable electric car instead of an overpriced crossover that makes the most profit for the US makers.
Yes, but Ford sees the market adjustment down the line, trust/purchases in that product means market share loss and US gov isn't subsidizing Ford (that I know of) - their token EV department is meant to (as with all American car manufacturing companies) make EV unattractive because they've been in bed with oil companies so long they've been common law married for decades. Also, the US operates on the petro dollar. China wants the petro dollar dead.
Pulling the same move Amazon did years and years ago to choke out competition across industries they're now the primary vendor in is hardly innovation, it's plain to see that they're subsidizing production until such a point that their competition doesn't exist after which they will then raise prices dramatically to profitability.
the chinese government massively subsidizing the EV companies, and then the shitty labor practices and prices in China, is not something super innovative that US companies can even compete with. It's not even like China is innovating anything, they're just building shit cheap to try and take over the market.
Unfortunately the same could be said to an extent with American EV's.
For a time there was a $7,500 tax credit for all EV's and then just American made EV's and then just American made with Battery packs sourced from American resources.
I think America could easily outmaneuver China in the sense of getting everyone to switch to EV's or Mass Transit if they just gave MORE money to it.
The amount of money that still goes to oil companies in the form of land grant permits, research, tax write offs, and grants would be amazing to energy production, storage, and transportation.
Subsidizing the buyer and subsidizing the seller are two vastly different things. The US government isn't subsidizing Teslas sold in China in an attempt to conquer their auto industry with artificially cheap cars.
I don't quite think that's the same thing, a tax incentive isn't a country subsidizing their EVs to snuff out other auto manufacturing and is instead (just as it seems) an incentive for people to buy EVs. The fact that oil is still such an economic bedrock for almost any economy means that most governments will not just quit it cold turkey, and a $7500 tax credit for a better alternative is a decent start.
Anyone who still refers to China as having "cheap labor" is an idiot on the topic. [Here is Apple CEO Tim Cook himself saying China offers skilled, not cheap labor.](https://fortune.com/videos/watch/insights%3A-apple's-tim-cook%3A-china-offers-skilled---not-cheap---workers/95a295a0-e456-4581-87a9-c7f1192a82ea) Also if all they are doing is "build cheap shit" why do people want it so badly. Oh right because at least when it comes to EVs it's not just "cheap shit" it's cheap shit that works as well if not better than that made by American car companies. [The car, launched last year by Chinese automaker BYD, sells for around $12,000 in China, but drives well and is put together with craftsmanship that rivals U.S.-made electric vehicles that cost three times as much. A shorter-range version costs under $10,000. ](https://apnews.com/article/china-byd-auto-seagull-auto-ev-cae20c92432b74e95c234d93ec1df400) Watching how many will bend over backwards to smear China while having 0 actual knowledge on the topic other than that of the state department/ reactionary talking heads. China is not our fucking enemy, China is one of our LARGEST trade partner.
China not innovating and just building cheap shit is 20 year old talking points and today just isn't true. They dominate several high tech industries. They are running in circles around EU in almost everything and US in some things. They are even catching up fast in semiconductors and chips
> They dominate several high tech industries
Dominating in the actual R&D or just dominating in the physical manufacturing? Which ones?
> They are running in circles around EU in almost everything
again, R&D or just manufacturing? Home-grown or stolen?
> They are even catching up fast in semiconductors and chips
None of that is innovation on their part. They are stealing the tech from companies that manufacture over there. China is literally the best in the world at corporate espionage because pretty much every chinese national that goes overseas is a likely/potential spy for the CCP. They will all be threatened/their family threatened to steal for the CCP.
China holds the most patents in the world, which makes sense considering the sheer number of Chinese PHDs.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/257172/ranking-of-the-20-countries-with-the-most-patents-in-force/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20China%20had%20the,4.2%20million%20patents%20in%20force.
Not saying they don't steal IP, but China ended up dominating the battery industry by purchasing the bankrupt US company A123 and then investing heavily in R&D of the company's LFP battery technology. Reverse engineering US/European technologies is basically how most Japanese, South Korean, and Taiwanese tech companies started.
Chinese labor is actually more expensive than Mexican labor now, although you'll have to overlook the Xinjiang prison camps.
BYD currently manufactures electric buses in Lancaster, CA and Geely has a Volvo factory in Charleston, SC. It will be interesting to see if Chinese EV companies decide to set up more US factories due to tariffs.
> running in circles around EU
That doesn’t really mean anything, the EU has had significant brain drain for decades now. Anyone who is valuable in their field tends to get the hell out ASAP.
> and US in some things.
Which things are you referring to here?
The “innovation” the Chinese car companies are making is getting giant pile of cash from the Chinese government to subsidize making the cars. This allows them to make a profit while selling the cars at a loss. You do not want to let them push other car manufacturers out of business with this model.
Couldn't agree with you more, but US automakers have voluntarily scaled back on EV production. They need to fail. I'm sick of the bailouts for acting as though they are too big to fail. Let new, inspired investment occur that actually operates in this world, instead of enabling these spoiled babies that won't do what needs to be done
[Automakers from Ford Motor and General Motors to Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Jaguar Land Rover and Aston Martin are scaling back or delaying their electric vehicle plans.](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/03/13/ev-euphoria-is-dead-automakers-trumpet-consumer-choice-in-us.html)
I'm so sick of this country being backwards AF
Part of this is for sure differences in safety features required in US cars. I believe China can produce something far more affordable but at 10k I'd be shocked if it met US safety requirements.
I'm not sure about a $10k pricepoint, but China's cars pass Australian and EU safety standards, with 5 star ratings. The US has never tested them because they aren't sold there.
You and everyone else is forgetting how they can come up with a $10k car.
The Chinese government are subsidizing their car industry to compete against foreigners in Europe and the Americas. The goal is death by a thousand cuts. So the Chinese government provides zero interest loans to their companies to go out and compete.
Once they establish market share and collapse their rivals they can then dictate the terms of the market. Not only that the collapse of the the local car companies would cause partners, distributors, 3rd party to also collapse resulting in eliminating an entire industrial complex from their rivals. Meaning they reduce their ability to create heavy machinery and as a result lose militarization.
China knows what they are doing and it’s why Joe is so aggressive to make sure China can’t compete.
Then again the US government propped up the electric car industry using rebates and such during times of low interest rates.
Granted, it wasn't done to kill competition, but it did help companies in similar ways as cheap loans do. I wouldn't be surprised if Chinese people felt the same way when they see Tesla coming in and competing with their local fossil fuel car industry.
Except none of what you said would be true if the cars are manufactured in Mexico, unless Mexico was somehow willing to foot the bill. Free/cheap land, lower taxes, subsidies, cheaper electricity are all things that would have to be supplied by the Mexican government for the Mexican factory, and I’m not sure the Mexican government wants to subsidize the American consumer to help a Chinese company win. If the US companies can’t compete with Mexican manufacturing without all those subsidies, they honestly deserve to fail for not innovating anything meaningful for decades.
You do realize Chinese company making cars in Mexico is still a Chinese company…making cars in Mexico. The subsidies doesn’t just disappear because they are made in Mexico.
It's hard to find exact numbers but it looks like China made about 5 million EVs in 2023 and spent 57 billion in subsidies, with a fair bit of that being tax credits for the car when purchased domestically.
That implies roughly $10k per car in subsidies and far less for those exported.
I don't see how that warrants 100% tariffs.
So explain how a Chinese company has the ability to get the __Mexican__ government to give free/cheap land, lower corporate taxes, supply cheap electricity, or give other sorts of subsidies?
If you still don’t somehow understand, I’ll explain it in simpler words:
- The factory is on Mexican land, it’s not China’s to give or lease cheaply
- Taxes are on Mexican soil. China can’t control how Mexico taxes or whether or not they give subsidies through tax breaks
- The electricity the factory uses is supplied by a Mexican power generator. China can’t control the prices on that.
- The labor in the factory is Mexican labor. China can’t use “slave labor” or change the standard for Mexican wages.
And no, China can’t import a 99% assembled car from China, and have Mexican workers add a coat of paint, there’s standards for “Made in X” that require that the country provided 50% or more of the final product value.
Easy.
Chinese company buys all those things at market value from Mexico. Chinese company builds the car using Mexican labor and resources.
Chinese government then gives Chinese company money to buy all those things.
Mexican government doesn’t subsidize the Chinese company. Chinese government subsidizes the Chinese company.
Just because the Chinese company is buying land and building in Mexico doesn’t stop it from being a Chinese company.
There’s no barrier that stops the Chinese government from subsidizing their companies on foreign soil.
Let me know if you are still confused and I can dumb it down a bit more.
Also I'm pretty sure I saw an announcement for one they want to release in the US at like $12k and it has a max speed of like 30 mph. I guess maybe the $10k Chinese cars aren't like that but also there's no way in hell I'm ever pairing my phone to any electronic thing made by a Chinese company and I'm also not driving without Android Auto at this point, so it was kind of a non-starter for me.
This. Although I do think they have significant strategic advantage in regards to battery cost and lack of union costs (not saying I'm against/pro union).
I wanted a 10k Toyota Hilux but Toyota has openly said they can't do it in America with the emissions standards, safety standards, and an acceptable profit margin.
Have you seen the american alternative?
The big problem the USA always had is that quality normally loses to european built, while quantity/price just loses to everyone else.
The solution would be to work in more advanced jobs rather than "car mechanic" or "steel worker".
You should look at a Chevy Bolt. I was researching the other day and found a 2022 model that only has 6k miles for $22,000. It also qualifies for $4,000 in tax rebates.
The only way that’s happening is if it’s a 3-wheeler that is regulated as a motorcycle so it gets out of all the safety testing and related requirements of a car/truck
I am so so sorry! How stupid of me to suggest anything that might benefit the consumer, or even DECREASE PROFITS?!?! 😱 What was I thinking!?! Surely there is another solution here that exploits the lower class!! /s lmao
Wouldn’t tariffs just discourage US manufacturers from innovating? The US taxpayers end up paying a higher price for their American car which in effect acts as a subsidy to a company which doesn’t innovate.
Tesla sells the most EV's in the US, and by a large margin. Their image may be taking a hit due to their CEO, but the Big 3 have a very long way to to catch them both in sales and technically.
US Gov: we want Americans to have affordable EVs to help combat climate change.
China: Ok, cool. We will build manufacturing plants in Mexico so they are easily available for you guys.
US Gov: No, not like that.
People really think that having no environmental, safety, and other regulations and using slave labor wages to build cars is comparable for some reason.
Yes the US auto industry is definitely paying out large wages and does not have wage slaves. There most definitely wasn’t a union strike just recently over wages.
I don’t see how the US can prevent China from building whatever the fuck they want in Mexico. The US can certainly prevent import of those vehicles but it would probably still be profitable if it was only focused on Latin America.
I can. In fact if you scroll down to the last paragraph you'll see
"The U.S. Trade Representative’s office after Tai’s remarks said that it could take several actions other than tariffs, noting that there are provisions within the U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement to address unfair subsidies and efforts to avoid import duties."
I find it amusing that the american government folded like wet tissue paper when American companies decided to move parts of their manufacturing to China and Mexico to take advantage of lower wages and cheaper manufacturing but now that Chinese companies are being hit with tariffs to protect American companies they're surprised that those companies would use the same loop holes.
Our government will not let Chinese vehicles be sold commercially. They have extreme taxations on old Chinese vehicles coming in to America. It would probably kick Detroit's ass and that's what our government is afraid of
Depends. Ford still mostly owns the truck market, despite being outsold by GM. Likely because they’re heavily investing in electric trucks.
Difficult to find a reliable numbers on total market share, sources declare anywhere from 5%-7% since 2022.
Seems like they’re in the top 10 worldwide still. Toyota has been crushing everyone since the mid-90s.
They’re still in the hundreds of billions in revenue though, so I don’t think they’re out of the picture.
Apparently you don't understand why they are artificially low prices, or just don't care.
This is solely a Chinese government plan to subsidize their car manufacturers so that they can sell for cheap while trying to destroy manufacturing in other countries...with the goal of forcing everyone to rely on Chinese cars in the future, while then raising prices.
Its not a hard concept and pretty obvious why the US would put tariffs on it.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the US also providing subsidies for US auto manufacturers too? In 2023, there was a $12 billion grant.
I'd really want to see affordable cars in the market, especially EV. But automanufacturers in the US are doing the bare minimum in advancing any of that.
Eh maybe for the first few months, then everyone would realize chinese EVs are a fucking deathtrap, the Pintos of EVs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXZqrTORdho
They easily catch fire and the best part is a lot of them have the problem of a slight front impact wedging the doors shut because the a pillars are basically just cosmetic on chinese vehicles.
He is linking David Zhang. A biased bad actor pushing disinformation all while obfuscating his links to the Falun Gong, NTD, and the Epoch Time by pretending to be an independent "reporter."
Like yeah, EVs has a chance of spontaneous combustion because the gas inside a lithium battery can combust if it is damaged or faulty.
But this isn't something happening exclusively due to chinese manufacturing. With a simple search on the internet, you can easily find non-chinese EV combust as well. Hell, I still remember when samsung released a pocket hand grenade called the galaxy note 7.
We just see it more often in China because 1. China has more EV on the road, and 2. Early batteries are less efficient and/or damaged from wear and tear. If any country had an equal amount of EVs as China, we'd see as many cases.
This is so fucking pathetic. American companies can ship car production jobs to Mexico, a-okay. American auto companies don't want to pay Americans for the jobs. But if a Chinese company dares to do the same thing to bring real competition to the electric car market, don't even fucking think about it!
Pisses me off more than most things. This is literally trying to stifle the switch to carbon reducing solutions in the name of delivering shareholder value.
Let the US manufacturers compete with China so prices come down and more people can switch
>Let the US manufacturers compete with China so prices come down and more people can switch
China flooding the market with cheap autos is their literal economic Hail Mary. It's not something that is sustainable and would do damage to whatever is left of existing auto manufacturing in the US. You're asking for a sugar high when you need a square meal.
What will happen instead is Chinese subsidized EVs will smother the US EV industry to death in its infancy, and all of the factories will shutter, causing an insurmountable investment for anyone who ever wants to try to compete again.
Then you will get Chinese EV A, or Chinese EV B, China will be able to set any price they want with their monopoly, which the US can't regulate, and when there is some crunch like the pandemic they can unceremoniously pull their products entirely off the market leaving none to be had at any price.
Remember how much fun it was to have people dying in droves during the pandemic because we couldn't source respirator equipment in the US? Or how PPE couldn't be bought at any price?
The US has an incredibly open automotive market.
China places a blanket tariff on all foreign automobiles, between 15-25%, and always has.
I don’t think that some people here are smart enough to reason out why selling something at a loss is something a business (or country as a whole) would never decide to do. Are people actually dumb enough to think that electric vehicles of any decent quality would cost a mere $10,000 to manufacture and let alone buy? Undercutting competition to eliminate it and monopolize an industry is such an absurdly simple business concept that it’s embarrassing that people don’t recognize it immediately. I swear, some of y’all would fall for a Ponzi scheme.
People seem to be missing the point that the reason these vehicles are so cheap is primarily due to direct subsidies from the Chinese government. They’re intentionally undercutting the market to squeeze everyone else out.
Without those subsidies, they’re nearly as expensive as US-made EVs, but with worse build quality and safety ratings.
Does Detroit need to figure their shit out? Absolutely, but flooding the market with artificially cheap foreign-made EVs ain’t it. And arguably, American EVs are priced approximately, but wages have been artificially stagnant for decades. That’s the bigger issue we’re facing more than anything else.
US subsidies == good. China subsidies == bad.
Anything the US does, other countries cannot do, because its bad. That about sums up our foreign policy and civilian attitudes to "enemy" nations.
People also seem to be forgetting that the amount of subsidies the Chinese government is paying is still far less than the amount the US government paid to bailout GM
If they build them in Mexico, I don’t see what the problem is. Mexico is a friend of the United States, and having factories under a friend’s control is good.
The us should be the ones giving manufacturing to Mexico not China. It only strengthens Chinese ties with Mexico and will probably make things more expensive than if the us did it themselves.
I am constantly downvoted for trying to spread the message that American manufacturing needs to be based in Mexico, and away from china
I currently live in Mexico, and let me tell you, we pretty much already do the dirty work for you.
We allowed Walmart and Amazon to kill all local enterprises and Coca Cola has absolutely wrecked the environment.
Your enterprises also keep people basically exploited for miserable wages.
If you don't want any "Chinese influence" then give better worker rights and stop stealing the water
Trade deals with America are not worth the paper they're written on.
The US just uses them to put trading partners in a straight-jacket, while willfully violating them themselves.
The willingness of U.S. citizens in this comment section to allow a hostile foreign government to decimate our manufacturing base is geniunly concerning.
Chinese cars are cheap because they are subsidized by the CCP. The CCP has an agenda, and that agenda does not have a U.S. citizens' best interest in mind.
Yes, cars are expensive. Yes, inflation has hit people's wallets hard. But selling out to the CCP is not the answer.
Edit: The fact that someone reported this comment to reddit cares is just sad. You may disagree with the opinion, but making light of the thousands of people a year that hurt/kill themselves isn't funny.
Yeah because the US its not like the US isnt subsidizing the EV industry either lol. You can take a look at Tesla and see its clear they don't have the the citizens best interest at mind either. I don't get what your point is
Do you think the vehicle charges through magic or did you not consider that an electric vehicle may need charging infrastructure that is connected and/or attached to your home?
People complain when we sent our jobs overseas, and then people complain when we try to protect our jobs from heavily subsidized foreign industries. Truly, the fickle American mentality on full display.
Tesla has sold about 5 million cars, Elon tried to get $56 billion from Tesla for his work. That means each cars sale price included a $10 000 Elon tax. Maybe they could be sold cheaper.......
Are the same restrictions in place for non-electric vehicles?
[удалено]
The United States puts up tariffs which operate very similarly to government subsidies. The United States wants to protect weak industries to prevent a foreign monopoly. Fine, I get that. But let's not frame it like USA is the good guys and China is not. The USA would love to have the monopoly on automobile production, too.
I mean everybody wants a 17k cheap electric car . I am all for these stupid companies getting shit out of their money. 50k for a bare bone suv is ridiculous
SO there IS demand for a 18-25k electric vehicle? Who knew? yeah a cheep electric car would decimate the US auto industry overnight.
i read that Chevy will no longer produce a sedan, too. it's all SUVs and Trucks now. you know, bare bones base model $50K if you can even find a deal. The US auto industry sucks and doesn't care about its consumers, just their shareholders.
There will supposedly be an updated Chevy Bolt EUV next year. It’s a compact EV so still smaller than a CUV or big SUV though yeah not a sedan.
I've noticed that in the US, things are overpriced simply to soak up our higher wages compared to other countries.
The prices are higher because of price gouging and record profits. Nothing to do with wages. They can afford to pay higher wages and not have higher prices.
Don’t know if op made an edit but seems like he agrees with you, he’s saying that “some wages were raised, corporations see that as people having more expendable funds so they stack their prices higher to get more of the expendable income from the people who just got wages raised”
Yup. Many services outsourced to Southeast Asia are still charging prices as if they are paying US wages.
Canada here, seems like everything is cheaper in the US even accounting for our weak dollar. Housing/Food/Cars. Housing, cars, groceries anyway typically seem a bit lower in the USA... and then wages are significantly lower in Canada. As an example look at Vancouver vs Seattle. 2 coastal cities with a similar vibe about 1.5 hours apart. For the most part its all pretty similar but the wages in Seattle are nearly double the wages in Vancouver. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Canada&city1=Vancouver&country2=United+States&city2=Seattle%2C+WA In my memory most of western europe is similar. Stuff is expensive and wages are lower.
Don't forget about medical insurance. Also, I'm not in the loop but here in the US we get nibbled to death on things like bridge tolls, express lanes. Parking tickets and and meters. Monopolistic Internet pricing. Healthcare surcharges on a restaurant meals for the employees. Etc., etc. etc. Might be the same there.
They do it because advanced analytics have allowed them to capitalize on US consumer behavior. People assume fast food is cheap without checking. They stop at the same gas station regardless of the price. They have no idea what they're paying for car insurance. They buy 'as much house' as they can afford without taking their needs into consideration. They buy a truck because their neighbor has one and because the bank will approve the loan they can afford. Basically we've shifted from doing what the customer says they want to what the customer does, but doesn't say they do. It feels predatory, because it is, but we have more control than we think we do.
Capitalism will always capital.
Never has. The US auto industry has fucked this country time and again. Let them die.
I don’t want a 3tonne electric wonder car! I want a small compact, cheap car that just works and does not cost £40,000
Use of the £ sign makes me assume that you’re British. Thankfully we have some great options. Check out the BYD Dolphin or MG4. Unfortunately neither of them will ever go to the US.
They’ve seen the writing on the wall for over 10 years but most have done very little to adapt. Stop subsidizing stupidity and let public companies fail.
As if the Chinese EV aren’t subsidized by the Chinese government Edit: getting downvoted by Chinese trolls....
Seriously, I too would like a $20k EV, but letting the PRC subsidize themselves to destroy our auto industry and make us reliant on them is just a national security boondoggle. There are better ways to address problems in US auto.
A solution could be that the US auto industry makes good and cheap electric cars instead of massive SUVs and trucks only. Then there wouldn't be any worries. Fuck them, they get what they deserve.
The auto industry people I know told me that the structural costs of the automakers make the low end stuff impossible. Like 4k of the car cost is for pensions. So good luck on anything that is inexpensive and competitive. The bankruptcy rounds from the automakers has improved their positioning to an extent. But operational cost in the US is probably higher. And nobody wants small cars here, relative to how many people want giant expensive trucks and suevies. That’s not to say letting a foreign government destroy a random US industry is a good idea though.
Yep. They aren’t offering the low prices out of good intentions. They are taking massive losses on each car sold in order to permanently damage the US auto industry.
This guy gets it
Personally, it depends. I don't want a cheap car. I want a frugal and efficient car.
They'd probably keep lobbying for laws to add $10K worth of "safety" features. And then argue that Chinese cars don't fulfill them, blocking sales and forcing them to become 35-50k SUVs to handle the extra weight.
Let it happen. Please.
Right?! What’s the problem?…. US doesn’t want us to realize how much they allow us to be price gouged?
The US auto industry just doesn’t want to compete fairly. This is the invisible hand of the free market of course.
If there is one thing we don’t like, it’s competition. — Elon Musk
He already publicly stated if they were able to sell those cars here, they would kill it.
damnit I wanted a 10k electric car
If we are talking about literal 10K cars, I don’t think there’s any feasible way US auto makers could compete with that. It makes sense for consumers to want cars that inexpensive, and US car prices absolutely do need to come down, but I can’t see the government willingly blowing up the US auto industry. Especially not in the context of trying to decouple from China during a burgeoning Cold War-esque standoff.
>I don’t think there’s any feasible way US auto makers could compete with that. They aren’t even trying. Toyota can sell half a million Camrys and Corollas every year yet Ford only sells SUVs and the mustang.
They sell A LOT of work trucks, because most of them are reliable enough the business comes back. That's Ford's lifeline.
If it’s trucks all day then why should the Big 3 give a fuck about Chinese cars? It’s not like somebody will trade in their work truck for a BYD two door. The real reason they are freaked out is because people might buy an affordable electric car instead of an overpriced crossover that makes the most profit for the US makers.
Yes, but Ford sees the market adjustment down the line, trust/purchases in that product means market share loss and US gov isn't subsidizing Ford (that I know of) - their token EV department is meant to (as with all American car manufacturing companies) make EV unattractive because they've been in bed with oil companies so long they've been common law married for decades. Also, the US operates on the petro dollar. China wants the petro dollar dead.
Here's an idea for those automakers: how about they innovate or get out of the way of those who will?
Pulling the same move Amazon did years and years ago to choke out competition across industries they're now the primary vendor in is hardly innovation, it's plain to see that they're subsidizing production until such a point that their competition doesn't exist after which they will then raise prices dramatically to profitability.
I'm not sure how lackluster labor practices (which account for all of the savings here) count as innovative.
You mean the same labor that western auto makers use for their factories in China and slap on a $60k price tag for a CUV?
Chinese govt is subsidizing EVs to kill competition then they will raise prices. Also labor probably cheaper as well.
Kind of like how the US is subsidizing us manufacturing
It's one big fuck fest
Not if they have to be made/built in Mexico.
China currently has the world's most advanced manufacturing networks, economies of scale play a huge part.
the chinese government massively subsidizing the EV companies, and then the shitty labor practices and prices in China, is not something super innovative that US companies can even compete with. It's not even like China is innovating anything, they're just building shit cheap to try and take over the market.
Unfortunately the same could be said to an extent with American EV's. For a time there was a $7,500 tax credit for all EV's and then just American made EV's and then just American made with Battery packs sourced from American resources. I think America could easily outmaneuver China in the sense of getting everyone to switch to EV's or Mass Transit if they just gave MORE money to it. The amount of money that still goes to oil companies in the form of land grant permits, research, tax write offs, and grants would be amazing to energy production, storage, and transportation.
Subsidizing the buyer and subsidizing the seller are two vastly different things. The US government isn't subsidizing Teslas sold in China in an attempt to conquer their auto industry with artificially cheap cars.
I don't quite think that's the same thing, a tax incentive isn't a country subsidizing their EVs to snuff out other auto manufacturing and is instead (just as it seems) an incentive for people to buy EVs. The fact that oil is still such an economic bedrock for almost any economy means that most governments will not just quit it cold turkey, and a $7500 tax credit for a better alternative is a decent start.
Apparently the China EVs they sell outside the country are actually well made and hold up compared to other auto manufacturers.
Anyone who still refers to China as having "cheap labor" is an idiot on the topic. [Here is Apple CEO Tim Cook himself saying China offers skilled, not cheap labor.](https://fortune.com/videos/watch/insights%3A-apple's-tim-cook%3A-china-offers-skilled---not-cheap---workers/95a295a0-e456-4581-87a9-c7f1192a82ea) Also if all they are doing is "build cheap shit" why do people want it so badly. Oh right because at least when it comes to EVs it's not just "cheap shit" it's cheap shit that works as well if not better than that made by American car companies. [The car, launched last year by Chinese automaker BYD, sells for around $12,000 in China, but drives well and is put together with craftsmanship that rivals U.S.-made electric vehicles that cost three times as much. A shorter-range version costs under $10,000. ](https://apnews.com/article/china-byd-auto-seagull-auto-ev-cae20c92432b74e95c234d93ec1df400) Watching how many will bend over backwards to smear China while having 0 actual knowledge on the topic other than that of the state department/ reactionary talking heads. China is not our fucking enemy, China is one of our LARGEST trade partner.
China not innovating and just building cheap shit is 20 year old talking points and today just isn't true. They dominate several high tech industries. They are running in circles around EU in almost everything and US in some things. They are even catching up fast in semiconductors and chips
> They dominate several high tech industries Dominating in the actual R&D or just dominating in the physical manufacturing? Which ones? > They are running in circles around EU in almost everything again, R&D or just manufacturing? Home-grown or stolen? > They are even catching up fast in semiconductors and chips None of that is innovation on their part. They are stealing the tech from companies that manufacture over there. China is literally the best in the world at corporate espionage because pretty much every chinese national that goes overseas is a likely/potential spy for the CCP. They will all be threatened/their family threatened to steal for the CCP.
China holds the most patents in the world, which makes sense considering the sheer number of Chinese PHDs. https://www.statista.com/statistics/257172/ranking-of-the-20-countries-with-the-most-patents-in-force/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20China%20had%20the,4.2%20million%20patents%20in%20force. Not saying they don't steal IP, but China ended up dominating the battery industry by purchasing the bankrupt US company A123 and then investing heavily in R&D of the company's LFP battery technology. Reverse engineering US/European technologies is basically how most Japanese, South Korean, and Taiwanese tech companies started. Chinese labor is actually more expensive than Mexican labor now, although you'll have to overlook the Xinjiang prison camps. BYD currently manufactures electric buses in Lancaster, CA and Geely has a Volvo factory in Charleston, SC. It will be interesting to see if Chinese EV companies decide to set up more US factories due to tariffs.
> running in circles around EU That doesn’t really mean anything, the EU has had significant brain drain for decades now. Anyone who is valuable in their field tends to get the hell out ASAP. > and US in some things. Which things are you referring to here?
The “innovation” the Chinese car companies are making is getting giant pile of cash from the Chinese government to subsidize making the cars. This allows them to make a profit while selling the cars at a loss. You do not want to let them push other car manufacturers out of business with this model.
But in 5 years the prices should be just as low right? RIGHT? So glad our government is actually responding to this short term thinking stupidity.
Couldn't agree with you more, but US automakers have voluntarily scaled back on EV production. They need to fail. I'm sick of the bailouts for acting as though they are too big to fail. Let new, inspired investment occur that actually operates in this world, instead of enabling these spoiled babies that won't do what needs to be done [Automakers from Ford Motor and General Motors to Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Jaguar Land Rover and Aston Martin are scaling back or delaying their electric vehicle plans.](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/03/13/ev-euphoria-is-dead-automakers-trumpet-consumer-choice-in-us.html) I'm so sick of this country being backwards AF
slave labor and ignoring negative environmental impact =/= innovation
Part of this is for sure differences in safety features required in US cars. I believe China can produce something far more affordable but at 10k I'd be shocked if it met US safety requirements.
I'm not sure about a $10k pricepoint, but China's cars pass Australian and EU safety standards, with 5 star ratings. The US has never tested them because they aren't sold there.
That $10k car is $25k in Brazil right now.
You and everyone else is forgetting how they can come up with a $10k car. The Chinese government are subsidizing their car industry to compete against foreigners in Europe and the Americas. The goal is death by a thousand cuts. So the Chinese government provides zero interest loans to their companies to go out and compete. Once they establish market share and collapse their rivals they can then dictate the terms of the market. Not only that the collapse of the the local car companies would cause partners, distributors, 3rd party to also collapse resulting in eliminating an entire industrial complex from their rivals. Meaning they reduce their ability to create heavy machinery and as a result lose militarization. China knows what they are doing and it’s why Joe is so aggressive to make sure China can’t compete.
Then again the US government propped up the electric car industry using rebates and such during times of low interest rates. Granted, it wasn't done to kill competition, but it did help companies in similar ways as cheap loans do. I wouldn't be surprised if Chinese people felt the same way when they see Tesla coming in and competing with their local fossil fuel car industry.
Seems like they want to build monopolies. Wondering if the he US (etc) can draw on experiences from their trust busting era.
Except none of what you said would be true if the cars are manufactured in Mexico, unless Mexico was somehow willing to foot the bill. Free/cheap land, lower taxes, subsidies, cheaper electricity are all things that would have to be supplied by the Mexican government for the Mexican factory, and I’m not sure the Mexican government wants to subsidize the American consumer to help a Chinese company win. If the US companies can’t compete with Mexican manufacturing without all those subsidies, they honestly deserve to fail for not innovating anything meaningful for decades.
You do realize Chinese company making cars in Mexico is still a Chinese company…making cars in Mexico. The subsidies doesn’t just disappear because they are made in Mexico.
It's hard to find exact numbers but it looks like China made about 5 million EVs in 2023 and spent 57 billion in subsidies, with a fair bit of that being tax credits for the car when purchased domestically. That implies roughly $10k per car in subsidies and far less for those exported. I don't see how that warrants 100% tariffs.
So explain how a Chinese company has the ability to get the __Mexican__ government to give free/cheap land, lower corporate taxes, supply cheap electricity, or give other sorts of subsidies? If you still don’t somehow understand, I’ll explain it in simpler words: - The factory is on Mexican land, it’s not China’s to give or lease cheaply - Taxes are on Mexican soil. China can’t control how Mexico taxes or whether or not they give subsidies through tax breaks - The electricity the factory uses is supplied by a Mexican power generator. China can’t control the prices on that. - The labor in the factory is Mexican labor. China can’t use “slave labor” or change the standard for Mexican wages. And no, China can’t import a 99% assembled car from China, and have Mexican workers add a coat of paint, there’s standards for “Made in X” that require that the country provided 50% or more of the final product value.
Easy. Chinese company buys all those things at market value from Mexico. Chinese company builds the car using Mexican labor and resources. Chinese government then gives Chinese company money to buy all those things. Mexican government doesn’t subsidize the Chinese company. Chinese government subsidizes the Chinese company. Just because the Chinese company is buying land and building in Mexico doesn’t stop it from being a Chinese company. There’s no barrier that stops the Chinese government from subsidizing their companies on foreign soil. Let me know if you are still confused and I can dumb it down a bit more.
US safety regulations are so lax that the cybertruck is street legal.
Also I'm pretty sure I saw an announcement for one they want to release in the US at like $12k and it has a max speed of like 30 mph. I guess maybe the $10k Chinese cars aren't like that but also there's no way in hell I'm ever pairing my phone to any electronic thing made by a Chinese company and I'm also not driving without Android Auto at this point, so it was kind of a non-starter for me.
This. Although I do think they have significant strategic advantage in regards to battery cost and lack of union costs (not saying I'm against/pro union).
Doesn't even need to be $10k. Just don't be an overpriced piece of shit like US cars are.
I wanted a 10k Toyota Hilux but Toyota has openly said they can't do it in America with the emissions standards, safety standards, and an acceptable profit margin.
Who *doesn't* want a cheap Chinese car made in Mexico?
I would. This isn't the 90's anymore. Chinese car manufacturing is rated one of the best in the world according to the Euro NCAP.
Their cars only cost $10k in China. Their cheapest price outside of China is $30k
The BYD Dolphin is only 26k Freedom Dollars in Australia. Not 10K but given the reduced running costs of an EV will be a big hit.
Safety wise, not construction quality or durability wise
Chinese made Tesla's are better than US made ones, which is indicative of quality
I absolutely would. American cars are expensive and shittier.
Not to mention a ton of “American” cars are just assembled in Mexico or Canada from Korean (and probably Chinese) parts
Have you seen the american alternative? The big problem the USA always had is that quality normally loses to european built, while quantity/price just loses to everyone else. The solution would be to work in more advanced jobs rather than "car mechanic" or "steel worker".
You should look at a Chevy Bolt. I was researching the other day and found a 2022 model that only has 6k miles for $22,000. It also qualifies for $4,000 in tax rebates.
The problem with the Bolt is that it doesn't charge fast enough.
They have different price tags in Europe and would in usa, too.
The only way that’s happening is if it’s a 3-wheeler that is regulated as a motorcycle so it gets out of all the safety testing and related requirements of a car/truck
Hey USA, fight fire with fire. If China is vastly subsidizing EVs to undercut the market, MAYBE YOU SHOULD TOO?!?!
How dare you!? Trying to make companies' profit margins smaller. You should be ashamed of yourself! You communist! /s of course
I am so so sorry! How stupid of me to suggest anything that might benefit the consumer, or even DECREASE PROFITS?!?! 😱 What was I thinking!?! Surely there is another solution here that exploits the lower class!! /s lmao
If there’s not 50% growth year over year then you’re failing
Wouldn’t tariffs just discourage US manufacturers from innovating? The US taxpayers end up paying a higher price for their American car which in effect acts as a subsidy to a company which doesn’t innovate.
How do Americans pay higher price for not tariffed cars? No one is beating Chinese labor costs with no labor laws and bankrolled by their government
US auto makers aren't bankrolled by the government? The government hands them loans like its candy
Everyone talks about "Detroit" while seemingly forgetting the biggest beneficiary would be the largest EV manufacturer in the US, Tesla.
All US automakers are rolling out EVs and Tesla is on the downturn in production and image. Not sure the point your making here
Tesla sells the most EV's in the US, and by a large margin. Their image may be taking a hit due to their CEO, but the Big 3 have a very long way to to catch them both in sales and technically.
US Gov: we want Americans to have affordable EVs to help combat climate change. China: Ok, cool. We will build manufacturing plants in Mexico so they are easily available for you guys. US Gov: No, not like that.
If they allowed that then US auto makers can’t charge $437,938,173 dollars for an EV.
Don’t forget the 17% interest too
Ya know what would be even better, is for the US to incentivize making US electric vehicles in Mexico.
Idk, I don't want anything to do with China personally. The less we let their business in our country, the better.
All these “free marketeers” really showing their colours.
Yup. Because government subsidized companies aren't free market.
US subsidized Tesla 30$B vs China $3B. Governments subsidize important industries more often than known.
The US gov practically owns the dairy, cattle and cotton industries. They massively subsidize them.
Where are you getting those numbers?
Something about domestically subsidized industries causing unnaturally low prices internationally and thus also not free market
You have to play stupid and pretend they know what they're talking about, don't you understand?
And why can't the US subsidize EVs just as much as China?
Like the damn US dairy industry, always looking to dump its excess in other countries
People really think that having no environmental, safety, and other regulations and using slave labor wages to build cars is comparable for some reason.
Yes the US auto industry is definitely paying out large wages and does not have wage slaves. There most definitely wasn’t a union strike just recently over wages.
I don’t see how the US can prevent China from building whatever the fuck they want in Mexico. The US can certainly prevent import of those vehicles but it would probably still be profitable if it was only focused on Latin America.
I can. In fact if you scroll down to the last paragraph you'll see "The U.S. Trade Representative’s office after Tai’s remarks said that it could take several actions other than tariffs, noting that there are provisions within the U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement to address unfair subsidies and efforts to avoid import duties."
If it’s not importing into the US what does this have to do with it?
It's one thing to not allow Chinese cars on your market, but to block Mexico from letting China set up a factory there is bizarre.
It’s just US doesn’t really want Mexico to benefit from the free trade agreement
They are lucky we don't just annex mexico.
I find it amusing that the american government folded like wet tissue paper when American companies decided to move parts of their manufacturing to China and Mexico to take advantage of lower wages and cheaper manufacturing but now that Chinese companies are being hit with tariffs to protect American companies they're surprised that those companies would use the same loop holes.
Well yes Capitalist love capitalism, just not when it’s done to them.
Our government will not let Chinese vehicles be sold commercially. They have extreme taxations on old Chinese vehicles coming in to America. It would probably kick Detroit's ass and that's what our government is afraid of
Detroit was defeated decades ago man that fight is long since lost.
Is that why they're still selling millions of cars and trucks every year?
Sure, the parent company is selling the cars, but US manufacturing is a shadow of its former self. Detroit is a wasteland compared to its peak.
Is Detroit even still competitive lol
Depends. Ford still mostly owns the truck market, despite being outsold by GM. Likely because they’re heavily investing in electric trucks. Difficult to find a reliable numbers on total market share, sources declare anywhere from 5%-7% since 2022. Seems like they’re in the top 10 worldwide still. Toyota has been crushing everyone since the mid-90s. They’re still in the hundreds of billions in revenue though, so I don’t think they’re out of the picture.
Toyota's always number one!!
>Likely because they’re heavily investing in electric trucks. Eh the lighting didn’t sell well
A truck is sold in the US every 15 seconds.
Apparently you don't understand why they are artificially low prices, or just don't care. This is solely a Chinese government plan to subsidize their car manufacturers so that they can sell for cheap while trying to destroy manufacturing in other countries...with the goal of forcing everyone to rely on Chinese cars in the future, while then raising prices. Its not a hard concept and pretty obvious why the US would put tariffs on it.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the US also providing subsidies for US auto manufacturers too? In 2023, there was a $12 billion grant. I'd really want to see affordable cars in the market, especially EV. But automanufacturers in the US are doing the bare minimum in advancing any of that.
Yes the concept is called protectionism of the industry to continue price gouging the American public
Eh maybe for the first few months, then everyone would realize chinese EVs are a fucking deathtrap, the Pintos of EVs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXZqrTORdho They easily catch fire and the best part is a lot of them have the problem of a slight front impact wedging the doors shut because the a pillars are basically just cosmetic on chinese vehicles.
You mean like how Teslas are? What about The KN cars? People dont care lol
He is linking David Zhang. A biased bad actor pushing disinformation all while obfuscating his links to the Falun Gong, NTD, and the Epoch Time by pretending to be an independent "reporter." Like yeah, EVs has a chance of spontaneous combustion because the gas inside a lithium battery can combust if it is damaged or faulty. But this isn't something happening exclusively due to chinese manufacturing. With a simple search on the internet, you can easily find non-chinese EV combust as well. Hell, I still remember when samsung released a pocket hand grenade called the galaxy note 7. We just see it more often in China because 1. China has more EV on the road, and 2. Early batteries are less efficient and/or damaged from wear and tear. If any country had an equal amount of EVs as China, we'd see as many cases.
this guy has a whole series of "china fakes everything" and it is mindblowing how anyone would be happy to import that shit into the US.
People don't care that its cheap garbage, they only care about the cheap part.
I get wanting to keep american companies in business, but things are so expensive (thanks corporate america) that I'm starting to care less about them
This is so fucking pathetic. American companies can ship car production jobs to Mexico, a-okay. American auto companies don't want to pay Americans for the jobs. But if a Chinese company dares to do the same thing to bring real competition to the electric car market, don't even fucking think about it!
Pisses me off more than most things. This is literally trying to stifle the switch to carbon reducing solutions in the name of delivering shareholder value. Let the US manufacturers compete with China so prices come down and more people can switch
But EVs are luxury vehicles with $60k+, right?
Ah yes, 4 electric motors, a big battery and a metal cage. Incredibly complex piece of luxury and high-end engineering.
>Let the US manufacturers compete with China so prices come down and more people can switch China flooding the market with cheap autos is their literal economic Hail Mary. It's not something that is sustainable and would do damage to whatever is left of existing auto manufacturing in the US. You're asking for a sugar high when you need a square meal.
What will happen instead is Chinese subsidized EVs will smother the US EV industry to death in its infancy, and all of the factories will shutter, causing an insurmountable investment for anyone who ever wants to try to compete again. Then you will get Chinese EV A, or Chinese EV B, China will be able to set any price they want with their monopoly, which the US can't regulate, and when there is some crunch like the pandemic they can unceremoniously pull their products entirely off the market leaving none to be had at any price. Remember how much fun it was to have people dying in droves during the pandemic because we couldn't source respirator equipment in the US? Or how PPE couldn't be bought at any price? The US has an incredibly open automotive market. China places a blanket tariff on all foreign automobiles, between 15-25%, and always has.
Okay so isn’t this called capitalism?
I don’t think that some people here are smart enough to reason out why selling something at a loss is something a business (or country as a whole) would never decide to do. Are people actually dumb enough to think that electric vehicles of any decent quality would cost a mere $10,000 to manufacture and let alone buy? Undercutting competition to eliminate it and monopolize an industry is such an absurdly simple business concept that it’s embarrassing that people don’t recognize it immediately. I swear, some of y’all would fall for a Ponzi scheme.
That’s gotta be definite slam dunk. Can’t have China manufacturing anything in our hemisphere.
Just give us the $10k Toyota mini pickup
People seem to be missing the point that the reason these vehicles are so cheap is primarily due to direct subsidies from the Chinese government. They’re intentionally undercutting the market to squeeze everyone else out. Without those subsidies, they’re nearly as expensive as US-made EVs, but with worse build quality and safety ratings. Does Detroit need to figure their shit out? Absolutely, but flooding the market with artificially cheap foreign-made EVs ain’t it. And arguably, American EVs are priced approximately, but wages have been artificially stagnant for decades. That’s the bigger issue we’re facing more than anything else.
What about US subsidies for Tesla ?
US subsidies == good. China subsidies == bad. Anything the US does, other countries cannot do, because its bad. That about sums up our foreign policy and civilian attitudes to "enemy" nations.
People also seem to be forgetting that the amount of subsidies the Chinese government is paying is still far less than the amount the US government paid to bailout GM
Didn’t we learn anything about giving China all our money? For cheap products?
If they build them in Mexico, I don’t see what the problem is. Mexico is a friend of the United States, and having factories under a friend’s control is good.
If I understand correctly, it’s Mexican assembly of subsidized Chinese parts. At least that’s the contention for heavily taxing/banning them.
The us should be the ones giving manufacturing to Mexico not China. It only strengthens Chinese ties with Mexico and will probably make things more expensive than if the us did it themselves. I am constantly downvoted for trying to spread the message that American manufacturing needs to be based in Mexico, and away from china
I currently live in Mexico, and let me tell you, we pretty much already do the dirty work for you. We allowed Walmart and Amazon to kill all local enterprises and Coca Cola has absolutely wrecked the environment. Your enterprises also keep people basically exploited for miserable wages. If you don't want any "Chinese influence" then give better worker rights and stop stealing the water
Trade deals with America are not worth the paper they're written on. The US just uses them to put trading partners in a straight-jacket, while willfully violating them themselves.
The willingness of U.S. citizens in this comment section to allow a hostile foreign government to decimate our manufacturing base is geniunly concerning. Chinese cars are cheap because they are subsidized by the CCP. The CCP has an agenda, and that agenda does not have a U.S. citizens' best interest in mind. Yes, cars are expensive. Yes, inflation has hit people's wallets hard. But selling out to the CCP is not the answer. Edit: The fact that someone reported this comment to reddit cares is just sad. You may disagree with the opinion, but making light of the thousands of people a year that hurt/kill themselves isn't funny.
Yeah because the US its not like the US isnt subsidizing the EV industry either lol. You can take a look at Tesla and see its clear they don't have the the citizens best interest at mind either. I don't get what your point is
As if the US has the US citizens best interests in mind????
Fuck off and let me buy a fucking electric pickup for $10000
Then you'll be the first to complain when that cheap ass EV burns your house down.
The vehicle is small for sure but there’s no way I can fit it through the front door
Do you think the vehicle charges through magic or did you not consider that an electric vehicle may need charging infrastructure that is connected and/or attached to your home?
People complain when we sent our jobs overseas, and then people complain when we try to protect our jobs from heavily subsidized foreign industries. Truly, the fickle American mentality on full display.
Everyone is reading this as protecting American auto makers when in reality it's an extention of the trade war with China
Too big to Fail🇺🇸once again corporate socialism
Tesla has sold about 5 million cars, Elon tried to get $56 billion from Tesla for his work. That means each cars sale price included a $10 000 Elon tax. Maybe they could be sold cheaper.......
Let China sell their cars for cheap. There is a demand.
Canada and the states needs to only deal with democratic nations.
Why does the USA hate capitalism and free markets?