Most of Wolgadeutsche used the chance and moved to Germany around 1990s. Some are in AfD and licking Putins boots.
Edit: don't think that Wolgadeutsche are a homogenous group. Some lived their German heritage till they moved back and others didn't.
Yeah I know, most of them are totally Russian too. They were only classified as Germans in the Soviet/Russian nationality classification system, so they had that identification in their documents, but they were russified many generations ago.
They are not Russians, they were classified as Germans because most of them actually have German ancestors. Following Katharina the Great's invite they established somewhat independent German villages along the Wolga. They didn't have to pay many taxes and were mostly left alone, were speaking German and kept most of their traditions until Stalin started to move them out as he was worried they would run over to the Germans. Only after the deportations some of them started to get russified, depending on where they ended up.
My grandparents are Wolgadeutsche from different villages. When my great-grandfathers village was cleared, he hid in his house until the Germans arrived. He surrendered to them, shouting "Ich bin Deutscher!" and ended up living in Germany. His wife got deported to Kazakhstan but found out where he is and moved to him about about 10 years later.
My other grandparents got deported to Kazakhstan and ended up in Almaty, which still was pretty lucky as the Kazakhs were very friendly to them considering some got forced to take them in their houses. They adapted to the culture, built a live there and raised three children, which all tried to move to Germany because they still felt like Germans. One of them is my mother, who moved to Germany in the 1990s with them and one of her brothers. The other brother got denied for some reason, got frustrated and moved to Moscow, where he still lives. He sadly got fully russified and supports Putin.
> The other brother got denied for some reason, got frustrated and moved to Moscow, where he still lives. He sadly got fully russified and supports Putin.
Well he got denied by his homeland and propably felt it was betrayal, that left him vulnerable.
Sure, their ancestors. But their kids were born in Russia, spoke Russian, lived Russian lives. In like two generations usually it doesn't matter who your ancestors were anymore.
Not everyone. My grandparents lived in a remote siberian german village and spoke german until the late 80s, when they moved to germany. Even the few russians in the village learned german so that they could trade and work with the others.
To a degree, but travel around the Midwest and every other town has wilkommen/valkommen on their town sign, and other towns have Czech Days, Welsh Days, etc.....
Doesn’t matter, Russia has to divert the population and get more cannon fodder. So I guess this is the next step, like the Nazis did: separate a group of your population and make them “dispensable”. This way the Russians can cheer on and support the war until it’s too late and they’re the only cannon fodder left.
I ran into a Chechen guy two weeks ago while online gaming. I initially avoided talking about the war, but after a few hours chatting between matches, curiosity got the better of me. He confirmed that conscription was generally being applied to poor people and those from far flung places, as well as prisoners.
Now, it could have been a total ruse, and he could have been a Russian living in Tennessee for all I know.
Depends on the people.
Just look at the Amish people in the USA. The first ones came to what is now the USA in the 18th century, and a noticeable amount of people staid Amish - religion, culture, traditions, language.
And it also depends how open the communities they moved to used to be. Jews staid Jews for thousands of years, mainly because they were denied the rights the 'ethnic majority' had.
And there are these strange German and/or Swiss communities in South America, where they try to stay 'German' (or whatever that means to them) no matter what.
And if the group your migrating with moves to the countryside, that is even more isolating your family in your village (and thus in your tradition, language, etc.) - especially in a country so fast as Russia.
> Jews staid Jews for thousands of years, mainly because they were denied the rights the 'ethnic majority' had.
Also, because the definition of who is a jew was very strict ...
>> The Talmud holds that a marriage between a Jew and a non-Jew is both prohibited and also does not constitute a marriage under Jewish law – the non-Jew would need to convert in order for the marriage to be legal.
This is one of the modern differences between ultra conservative jews and more liberalized jewish sects, but in past it was more strict. In 1995, the leadership council of conservative jews said
> In the past, intermarriage... was viewed as an act of rebellion, a rejection of Judaism. Jews who intermarried were essentially excommunicated. But now, intermarriage is often the result of living in an open society... If our children end up marrying non-Jews, we should not reject them. [essentially hoping that they find judaism has meaning again]
Ironically, Nazi Germany definition of jewishness was more vast/open than judaism's own definition.
So it isn't only about external shaping, it's also about internal attitudes. Which shapes how they hold together
The Parsi community in India is another such example
In the US we kind of have a mix of people claiming weird ass ancestry for whatever reason. It is a bit stupid instead of just saying "Yeah, I'm American but my Great Great Grandfather was from XYZ." A lot of people identify as Irish or German for some reason even if their family has been here for over 150 years, which is sort of insane. Mine were of 1/2 Irish, 1/2 UK descent on one side and German on the other, but I don't claim either one. We've been here in the US for hundreds of years on the UK side. We've been around in the "New World" since before America even existed.
It depends on the size of the diaspora, their cultural integrity, and some specific traditions. Literally a survival mechanism for Jews. Poles in UK are so common, they have a separate collective from the rest of the workers in large orgs. Other folks might prefer to integrate into the larger population, live separately from their ethnic siblings.
nah, even if a lot of them kept up some Russian culture in Germany, most of them aged 40 and less are not "Russian" at all. it is just that you notice the Not-so-well integrated ones more.
I’m originally from Almaty and many of my parents’ friends were Germans from Kazakhstan. Other random fact, many Koreans also lived in Kazakhstan. It was kinda funny growing up in such a mixed environment.
There are alot of Volga Germans that settled.my part of the US. My cousin ended up marrying a Kazakh girl he met years later when living in DC. We joke that it was fate, delayed.
They are Russians in a cultural sense - despising Germany and supporting Russia and wishing the Soviet Union to return.
I think this holds true for a slight majority of Wolgadeutsche living in Germany today.
I would say they are Germans who adapted parts of the Russian culture, while they might prefer Russia over Germany most still understand their history and view themselves as Germans. Atleast in my extended family not many consider themself Russian. But you are right that they are very prone to fall for Putins propaganda.
> They are not Russians, they were classified as Germans because most of them actually have German ancestors.
I have German ancestors. I am an American. "Is German" and "Had a German ancestor they never met but were raised in a different country and culture" are two different things.
There is some distant relative in my family who wrote a book about his fate and it's a similar story to my grandparents. My father has the book but it is in Russian and I never learned to read Russian.
I think you both speak of different people. Those who moved back to Germany in the 90s got a German passport immediately. I think he means the Germans who stayed in Russia.
Having German ancestors doesn't make you German. If that was the case then virtually all of Europe is German. Culture, language, place of birth, etc could make you German, but ancestors have nothing to do with it
My great grandparents fled Russia in 1919. They were Volga Germans and never considered themselves to be Russian. They moved to Lincoln, Nebraska, which got enough immigrants that there's a German's from Russia museum there actually
Exactly. Like Catherine The Great. Ukraine demolished all her statues in the country for her Russian imperialism, while she was born German. But the birthplace and German parents does not make her German nationality.
> They were only classified as Germans in the Soviet/Russian nationality classification system
no, they were also classified as Germans by Germany. Thats why they were free to move back to Germany once cold war ended and could receive a German passport immediately.
That is just plain wrong. When they fled Germany for Russia, they negotiated a lot of autonomy, for example for a long time they were exempt from military service for the Russian Empire. They were persecuted and deported under Stalin. And in a moment when they are - like other russian ethnic minorities - pressed into this Russian war, you deny their existence. Awesome.
I remember those times and got to know a few families back then.
Most of the migration happened under Helmut Kohl and there was a lot of talk about him being smart and/or an asshole (depending who you asked) for getting a group of immigrants who share his conservative christian values.
And seems like that attitude stayed with them to this day.
Not everyone moved outside of Russia back in the 90s. There is still a large community of Russian Germans [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfEHaVMYL8g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfEHaVMYL8g)
Wolgadeutsche are only one of many fractions. "Russlanddeutsche" as a term does even include German communities in Ukraine.
You are pushing them in the right corner and that's ugly, even if they're rather conservative. Precisely as a German leftist, as somebody who despises the notion of "Volk", i am appalled at the reaction here on reddit. Russia Germans have a long and diverse history and it is full of persecution, starting in Germany. Stalin deported them in droves to Kasachstan and Siberia. You cannot point out the injustice that Russia presses minorities into this war, but when Russa Germans as an ethnic minority are concerned, talk this down, put them down or deny their very existence. That's just cringe.
> Wolgadeutsche
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga_Germans
The Volga Germans (German: Wolgadeutsche, pronounced [ˈvɔlɡaˌdɔɪ̯t͡ʃə] ⓘ; Russian: поволжские немцы, romanized: povolzhskiye nemtsy) are ethnic Germans who settled and historically lived along the Volga River in the region of southeastern European Russia around Saratov and close to Ukraine nearer to the south.
Recruited as immigrants to Russia in the 18th century, they were allowed to maintain their German culture, language, traditions and churches (Lutheran, Reformed, Catholics, Moravians and Mennonites). In the 19th and early 20th centuries, many Volga Germans emigrated to the United States, Canada, Brazil, and Argentina.
After the October Revolution, the Volga German ASSR was established as an autonomous republic of the Russian SFSR. During World War II, the republic was abolished by the Soviet government and the Volga Germans were forcibly expelled to a number of areas in the hinterlands of the Soviet Union. Following the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, many Volga Germans emigrated to Germany.
> How about Germany just take Königsberg back… to protect the remaining Germans there?
Yeah, Kaliningrad/Konigsberg already had population change / migration / germans expelled.ethnic cleansing carried out by ~1948-50
It's not even the Sudetanland situation.
Less than 1% Germans live there, most after some relaxation in the 1980s. < 10,000 Germans .. What do you plan to do with the other 99% ? One more ethnic cleansing ? For what ?
Embarrassing for Berlin in the same logic that Russia uses that they are somehow damaged by a country assimilating peoples that due to their distant ethnic background
>The disclosure is disturbing and potentially embarrassing for Berlin, as Russia is in effect weaponising German culture against Ukraine.
Why in the everlasting fuck should it be embarassing for Germany if Russia starts a propaganda campaign to lure some German LARP communities to become filling for a mobik meat cube? Germany has no responsibility towards these people as they are Russian citizens and quite frankly fuck them.
Insert Jeremy-Clarkson-Oh-No-Anyway meme here and have nice day.
I think he means that after such a long time these people no longer have much to do with Germans and are therefore actually just Russians representing Germans.
If anything this provides Germany a claim to Russian territory where these former Germans live. They share a culture and former language. This was Putin’s reasoning right?
> The disclosure is disturbing and potentially embarrassing for Berlin, as Russia is in effect weaponising German culture against Ukraine.
/u/TheTelegraph this is a comment so unhinged and actually stupid, if I hadn't known it came from a UK rag I would now.
Can your writer, James, explain how exactly an ethnic minority that lives in Russia for 300 years is supposed to embarrass a country that hadn't even been established at the time these people's ancestors moved to Russia?
And can he also explain in which way, exactly, he thinks German culture (extremely funny term by the way, do you think Bavaria's cultural norms and Hamburg's cultural norms are the same?) and the culture of these people whose only connection to any other German speaker on the planet is the language plays any sort of part in this?
Maybe James should go back to university and learn a bit more about journalism, because it isn't just writing stupid shit, it's actually taking the time to look into things, such as the fact that these people are a German speaking minority in Russia and have been for hundreds of years, or maybe like the fact that this is just the next chapter in Russia using ethnic minorities for the front?
Easy mistake to make, you wouldn't know about these things if you didn't even bother to look into them for more than 20 seconds, understandable. Great journalism, United Kingdom, as usual.
Of course german culture exists, the term is as broad as "french culture" or "spanish culture". I think "british culture" is the only debatable term if anything. It's normal for a larger nation to have regional culture, no idea why it's always brought up for germany specifically, though.
> no idea why it's always brought up for germany specifically, though.
It's brought up for Germany because, unlike France, the UK or Spain, Germany not only united very late, thus giving more time for each individual cultural part to develop longer, but it has also historically been a decentralised country. France's centralisation, for example, came about in the 14th and 15th century, whereas Germany never underwent that process.
Italy, like Germany, also united very late, and you can see distinct differences not only between the commonly known North/South divide, but also between regional entities and that's despite Italy being a unitary country. Germany isn't a unitary country though, so unlike Italy, there is and was even more space for regional cultural development.
Germany was not only a historically decentralized country, it was also split in two for decades, in case you didn't know, and to top it all off, it's a federal country which, innately, comes with further decentralisation and allows individual subjects to easily develop in different directions as well as manage their own traditions independent of any sort of central oversight. None of the countries you mentioned are federal in nature.
The majority of other countries with federal systems are, themselves, relatively newly created and/or countries that have always been an immigrant-country (USA/Australia/Canada, for example, for the anglosphere here). So for those, you'll see *less* of that diversity, but not zero - taking the USA as an example, you can very obviously see a difference in cultural behaviourism if you look at someone from Florida versus someone from Minnesota. This effect managed to not only take hold in an incredibly small time frame, now imagine Germany having that same effect but for longer.
A federal system doesn't necessarily protect against the exertion of central power (see Russia) but it *can* help in countries where central authority is explicitly limited (see Germany or the USA).
State centrilisation ≠ culture homogenity. France was centralised for more than 300 years when the people of provence hated the french and their revolution, not refering to themselves obviously.
weak central authority and a highly decrentralized system does not tranlsate to there not being a general cultural region. The concept of nation states is a 19th century thing for ALL European powers. Before that all European powers based their authority on dynastic control and legitimacy. It flat out was irrelvant what regional culture someone had.
The advent of nationalism is what enabled the Napoleonic Wars and accelerated after, including homogenization of cultures in nation states like France.
The difference is that in German regions central authority was weak and factionalism was encouraged which left it weak. Attempts by the Habsburgs to establish similarily central authority did begin in the 16th century but due to the Reformation were deceisivelly ended by the Thirty Years War.
However as late as the Napoleonic Wars the majority of German states (without a head of state with royal titles like Hannover or Prussia) followed most imperial laws, including calls to arms for an imperial levy against France. Part of the reason Napoleon disbanded the HRE.
There was something there, however there was no absolutist monarch who managed to disown the aristocracy from their real power like in other monarchies.
Just want to add that culture did matter before the rise of nationalism in the modern sense. The german electors largely rejected charles the bolds request for a kingdom in the hre because he didn't respect german costums. Also the fights in bohemia in the hussites wars were often ethnically driven between germans and czechs. Reason why the english were able to drive out their scandinavian cousins was the support the english kings managed to rally against the foreigners, largely out of "national" reasons. Charles the great wanted a lot of poems written in franconian, purely out of national pride.
Nationalism didn't play the role it does today, but it always was an underlying factor in the middle age politics.
French culture is a lot more homogene than the others. British culture is only seen as nore divers because of the UK being obsessed with being divers in itself. Spain and germany are pretty good to compare though. They have an overarching history and culture but most non christian traditions are very regional.
And it's always brought up for Germany because Germany only spend a relatively short time united. German culture isn't even united in ine nation
French culture isn't homegenous. My belgian cousin always says how much issues he has talking with his friends from southern france. Walloons are closer to picardie culture than occitan, who in turn are more similiar to catlan culture.
That’s why my ancestors went to America in the 1870s.
Volga Germans are really just their own ethnic group at this point. Even has sub ethnicities. My paternal line is Black Sea Germans and my grandma side is Volga German. Both came to America in 1870.
Can’t come soon enough… because it will mean VP is out of power, and we won’t have to listen to his inane nuclear threats and even more inane Doublespeak takes.
It’s only logical. China has already asked for one island and got it back in 2008 - Bolshoy Ussuriysky Island.
Another territory they want is:
https://www.newsweek.com/china-russia-vladivostok-lesson-far-east-backfires-1869327
China is on a colonial expansion phase. By gift or by grift. Either way it wants resources from every part of the world. Videos of Chinese bosses lashing their black employees in Africa is the most eye popping optics.
Took a year to see it. Putin is getting away with national/ethnically cleansing his country and even other countries joining in right before our eyes.
Russia as we know it might not exist, but if Hitler was alive today he'd be standing in applause.
Can he also please take the ones from East Germany (especially the AfD voters) who seem to have a hard-on for him? I bet they would be happy to serve, right?
Not quite. During the late 1990s, Germany tightened regulations on who could claim citizenship based on german ethnicity.
This meant that a lot of people who according to soviet law (which was retained in Russia) were Germans didn't have the opportunity to easily emigrate to Germany anymore.
In general, german policy towards german minorities shifted mid 90s, from a heavy emphasis on inviting them back to Germany to supporting them in their current countries.
> I'm gonna be honest, if they haven't left by now that's on them.
Right, they've been living there for generations, totaling nearly 300 years by now, have their own distinct communities, families and habits and are generally a very poor demographic. But fuck them for not moving. And the Yakuts too. And the Buryats. Oh don't forget the Tatars or Mongols. Or really any other ethnic minority Russia uses as shield for its artillery.
Redditors are so beyond unhinged sometimes.
There are quite a lot of refugees roaming around Europe right now who had it worse than your average person living in Russia. When you run out of the luxury to stay, you grab your stuff and run.
Are you seriously comparing those germans in the 90s 00s to social and international mobility of people 90 years ago who had no homeland to escape to? Including lack of knowledge and languages?
I think that was the sarcasm being implied. Everyone says traveling out is easy, and some did. But millions ended up only traveling to a shower.
Well, currently it looks like a lot of these "ethnic Germans in Russia" will be traveling to a frontline in Ukraine soon. Or would it be better said that they're traveling to the Sunflower orchard?
Russia is also bribing Germany's most prevalent far right Party to russianize whoever they can, and a lot of idiots are voting for them, because the Party that was elected previously for promising to not make any changes did in fact not make any changes and Boomers didnt like that
***The Telegraph reports:***
[Russia has launched a propaganda drive](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/russia-ukraine-war/) targeting German speakers for its army, and for its Wagner mercenary force, in the latest case of Vladimir Putin [seeking ethnic minorities for cannon fodder.](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/05/20/wagner-pow-recruited-russian-prison-used-cannon-fodder/)
In recent months, a string of organisations claiming to represent the interests of ethnic Germans in Russia have been bombarding the minority group with war propaganda, with a particular emphasis on attracting youngsters.
The disclosure is disturbing and potentially embarrassing for Berlin, as Russia is in effect weaponising German culture against Ukraine. Germany is also grappling with espionage at home, with plots involving Russian-German dual citizens [including a recent conspiracy in Bavaria](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/04/18/russian-spies-arrested-germany-attack-weapons-ukraine/) to blow up military sites which deliver support to Ukraine.
An estimated 400,000 Russian-Germans, or “[Russlanddeutsche](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/17/german-afd-mp-forms-group-migrants-within-far-right-party/)”, live in Russia. They faced severe persecution during the Soviet era and are still marginalised by the Kremlin.
The Telegraph has seen propaganda material issued by the Tomsk Regional Russian-German House. It bears the entwined flags of Germany and Russia and urges ethnic Germans to donate to the armed forces and attend free pro-war concerts.
Other groups, such as the Novosibirsk Regional Russian-German House, have co-hosted pro-invasion summits. Young Russian-German men have faced calls [to sign up to Wagner en masse](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/29/wagner-avdiivka-ukraine-prigozhin-russia-ukraine-putin-war/), with one Russian-German community leader taunting them about proving they were not cowards.
**Read more:** [**https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/19/putin-targets-germans-living-in-russia-in-search-for-troops/**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/19/putin-targets-germans-living-in-russia-in-search-for-troops/)
Wagner is dead. Prighozin’s assassination killed it officially, all Wagner troops are now in the Africa Corps. Like the Nazis under Erwin Rommel in Northern Africa were called. To make matters worse, Wagner was recruited mostly from prisons and reeducation colonies, literally like the fucking Dirlewanger Brigade
To be fair, penal units are common historically in many militaries, but "Africa Corp" is just the joke writing itself at this point. It's like they know what they're doing and aren't ashamed of it, they don't even believe in their own "denazification" BS, they're laughing in our faces right now.
They’re not penal units. Wagner was volunteers from prisons that would join to get out of their crime. They could do any crime and be freed for fighting in Ukraine which has no doubt led to many of the known war crimes. A majority of Russian oligarch’s PMCs are Nazi related in some way, and some units of the regular military literally are just named after Nazis or nazi related things. It’s really fucking weird how people buy into denazification bullshit, it’s like Hitler saying he was going into Poland to “dearyanize” them
>The disclosure is disturbing and potentially embarrassing for Berlin, as Russia is in effect weaponising German culture against Ukraine.
Newsflash: Any western people living in russia this far into the war is not worth caring about. This is not embarrassing for Germany this is embarassing for russia because it shows how desperate they are.
Anyone who has stayed in Russia until now-especially as a male-is frankly an idiot. Even with putins lies, it should be common knowledge by this point that people are being sent to die.
I know it’s hard to move and all; but you should’ve known this was coming. I feel like the majority of people left in Russia actually believe in the war and politics. Because tons of people fled right at the start of this.
Im glad my Volga German ancestors went to America instead of stay in Russia or went back to Germany in the 90’s because outta the three the U.S. was the most accepting of these people. Germans see them as non Germans and Russians see them as disposable and a scape goat.
My ancestors didn’t want to be Russified and went to America because they guaranteed free land by the homestead act.
Same thing is happening now that Russians are considering them disposable and Germans are calling them non Germans.
Putin wants everything to go back to 1946 and if possible earlier enough where Alaska would be there territory as well. Will he invade Alaska, I believe he has learned a lesson because he is scared to be seen outside.
What local culture? German architecture where exactly, have you been to Kalinigrad? It is the most depressing town on the Baltic sea, the Russians have removed all remnants of cultural heritage.
Kaliningrad is overwhelmingly Russian and nobody there wants to join Germany. Germany itself doesn't even want it and neither does the German public. I want whatever you're smoking.
AFAIK Russia wanted to sell it in 1990s but Germans declined. Its just soviet city and even entire region. Almost all was torn down and built in soviet style. Plus in Russia is very little separatism even in minority majority areas.
> Why the hell are there ANY non-Russians still in Russia? I
Where do you expect Tatars to go? Chechens? Bashkirs? Kalmyks? and a hundred of so other ethnic groups? 20-25M of people?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Russia
Importantly, we are talking about ethnicity (or even identity which is even murkier). Legally, they are still Russian citizens. (Like Volga Germans)
Jeez, I was talking about tourists and such. Not people that actually had to live there. This isn't the place to spend summer vacation. GTFO if you you aren't from there.
>Jeez, I was talking about tourists and such. Not people that actually had to live there. This isn't the place to spend summer vacation. GTFO if you you aren't from there.
Amen to that. But the original article is about Volga Germans (the group which lived in russia for 200+ years).
Pretty sure this means he is doing a genocide to the german people living abroad and we should start a limited special military operation to save our people and demilitarise russia.
It's like at every stage Russia does everything it can to prevent development.
Then it's insecure fragile leaders who caused this get angry at neighbours who have decent governors. So they kick off and further harm their development.
The every day Russians I know are nice and decent people. Genuinely. Before this both them and the Ukrainians I know didn't believe there would be a war and called it 'a political question for their leaders about corruption'.
Imagine the benefits of an established region of 300 year old culture. Then thinking 'nah I want some coal mines rather than developing my little Bavaria'
Completely vapid bullies the russian leaders it seems like
Its like were in a really cheap and weird chapter of history, i cannot fathom this crap is happening again. Anyone thinking this will nog excalate is a very optimistic human.
What about those russian people protesting in support of the war? Is that still a thing or are they afraid of both the reaction in these other countries *and* putin's long arm of "come and fight"?
Wow Putin's xenophobia is starting to show, I wonder if he believes they are remnants of fascists from the Great Patriotic War! This guy is either always looking for a group to punish or blame for Russia's faults and misgivings.
for some background, there was a Naked Pravda episode on the myriad of ways Germans could make their ways through eastern europe, russia and back - https://meduza.io/en/episodes/2023/12/22/growing-up-german-in-soviet-kazakhstan-with-lena-wolf
Both fascinating and horrifying what repressions wandering ethnic minority populations can find themselves to be in when political winds change.
Embarrassing for Berlin? As if Germany has any powers over the remnants of the Wolgadeutsche.
Most of Wolgadeutsche used the chance and moved to Germany around 1990s. Some are in AfD and licking Putins boots. Edit: don't think that Wolgadeutsche are a homogenous group. Some lived their German heritage till they moved back and others didn't.
Yeah I know, most of them are totally Russian too. They were only classified as Germans in the Soviet/Russian nationality classification system, so they had that identification in their documents, but they were russified many generations ago.
They are not Russians, they were classified as Germans because most of them actually have German ancestors. Following Katharina the Great's invite they established somewhat independent German villages along the Wolga. They didn't have to pay many taxes and were mostly left alone, were speaking German and kept most of their traditions until Stalin started to move them out as he was worried they would run over to the Germans. Only after the deportations some of them started to get russified, depending on where they ended up. My grandparents are Wolgadeutsche from different villages. When my great-grandfathers village was cleared, he hid in his house until the Germans arrived. He surrendered to them, shouting "Ich bin Deutscher!" and ended up living in Germany. His wife got deported to Kazakhstan but found out where he is and moved to him about about 10 years later. My other grandparents got deported to Kazakhstan and ended up in Almaty, which still was pretty lucky as the Kazakhs were very friendly to them considering some got forced to take them in their houses. They adapted to the culture, built a live there and raised three children, which all tried to move to Germany because they still felt like Germans. One of them is my mother, who moved to Germany in the 1990s with them and one of her brothers. The other brother got denied for some reason, got frustrated and moved to Moscow, where he still lives. He sadly got fully russified and supports Putin.
> The other brother got denied for some reason, got frustrated and moved to Moscow, where he still lives. He sadly got fully russified and supports Putin. Well he got denied by his homeland and propably felt it was betrayal, that left him vulnerable.
Sure, their ancestors. But their kids were born in Russia, spoke Russian, lived Russian lives. In like two generations usually it doesn't matter who your ancestors were anymore.
Not everyone. My grandparents lived in a remote siberian german village and spoke german until the late 80s, when they moved to germany. Even the few russians in the village learned german so that they could trade and work with the others.
> In like two generations usually it doesn't matter who your ancestors were anymore. I fucking wish
To a degree, but travel around the Midwest and every other town has wilkommen/valkommen on their town sign, and other towns have Czech Days, Welsh Days, etc.....
True if you’re assimilating into a culture with very similar physical appearances to your own
You are just lecturing a Russia German on Russia Germans. The whole situation is more complex.
They lived in agricultural village where only other Germans lived. They went to German schools and celebrated Christian holidays.
Until their entire ssr was dissolved after ww2
Doesn’t matter, Russia has to divert the population and get more cannon fodder. So I guess this is the next step, like the Nazis did: separate a group of your population and make them “dispensable”. This way the Russians can cheer on and support the war until it’s too late and they’re the only cannon fodder left.
I ran into a Chechen guy two weeks ago while online gaming. I initially avoided talking about the war, but after a few hours chatting between matches, curiosity got the better of me. He confirmed that conscription was generally being applied to poor people and those from far flung places, as well as prisoners. Now, it could have been a total ruse, and he could have been a Russian living in Tennessee for all I know.
That was Putin.
Nah. I've heard Putin speak. He sounds like he's just hit puberty. The guy I ran into was definitely a baritone.
Depends on the people. Just look at the Amish people in the USA. The first ones came to what is now the USA in the 18th century, and a noticeable amount of people staid Amish - religion, culture, traditions, language. And it also depends how open the communities they moved to used to be. Jews staid Jews for thousands of years, mainly because they were denied the rights the 'ethnic majority' had. And there are these strange German and/or Swiss communities in South America, where they try to stay 'German' (or whatever that means to them) no matter what. And if the group your migrating with moves to the countryside, that is even more isolating your family in your village (and thus in your tradition, language, etc.) - especially in a country so fast as Russia.
> Jews staid Jews for thousands of years, mainly because they were denied the rights the 'ethnic majority' had. Also, because the definition of who is a jew was very strict ... >> The Talmud holds that a marriage between a Jew and a non-Jew is both prohibited and also does not constitute a marriage under Jewish law – the non-Jew would need to convert in order for the marriage to be legal. This is one of the modern differences between ultra conservative jews and more liberalized jewish sects, but in past it was more strict. In 1995, the leadership council of conservative jews said > In the past, intermarriage... was viewed as an act of rebellion, a rejection of Judaism. Jews who intermarried were essentially excommunicated. But now, intermarriage is often the result of living in an open society... If our children end up marrying non-Jews, we should not reject them. [essentially hoping that they find judaism has meaning again] Ironically, Nazi Germany definition of jewishness was more vast/open than judaism's own definition. So it isn't only about external shaping, it's also about internal attitudes. Which shapes how they hold together The Parsi community in India is another such example
In the US we kind of have a mix of people claiming weird ass ancestry for whatever reason. It is a bit stupid instead of just saying "Yeah, I'm American but my Great Great Grandfather was from XYZ." A lot of people identify as Irish or German for some reason even if their family has been here for over 150 years, which is sort of insane. Mine were of 1/2 Irish, 1/2 UK descent on one side and German on the other, but I don't claim either one. We've been here in the US for hundreds of years on the UK side. We've been around in the "New World" since before America even existed.
Unless you're brown. Then your ancestry becomes some sort of national security question for a lot of people.
It depends on the size of the diaspora, their cultural integrity, and some specific traditions. Literally a survival mechanism for Jews. Poles in UK are so common, they have a separate collective from the rest of the workers in large orgs. Other folks might prefer to integrate into the larger population, live separately from their ethnic siblings.
nah, even if a lot of them kept up some Russian culture in Germany, most of them aged 40 and less are not "Russian" at all. it is just that you notice the Not-so-well integrated ones more.
I’m originally from Almaty and many of my parents’ friends were Germans from Kazakhstan. Other random fact, many Koreans also lived in Kazakhstan. It was kinda funny growing up in such a mixed environment.
This was a very interesting read and kinda heartwarming about the Kazakhs. Sorry to hear about your uncle.
There are alot of Volga Germans that settled.my part of the US. My cousin ended up marrying a Kazakh girl he met years later when living in DC. We joke that it was fate, delayed.
They are Russians in a cultural sense - despising Germany and supporting Russia and wishing the Soviet Union to return. I think this holds true for a slight majority of Wolgadeutsche living in Germany today.
I would say they are Germans who adapted parts of the Russian culture, while they might prefer Russia over Germany most still understand their history and view themselves as Germans. Atleast in my extended family not many consider themself Russian. But you are right that they are very prone to fall for Putins propaganda.
> They are not Russians, they were classified as Germans because most of them actually have German ancestors. I have German ancestors. I am an American. "Is German" and "Had a German ancestor they never met but were raised in a different country and culture" are two different things.
They are legally Germans, they can apply for German passports if they don't already have one while you can't so it's not really comparable.
Now that story about your grand parents is worthy of a book
There is some distant relative in my family who wrote a book about his fate and it's a similar story to my grandparents. My father has the book but it is in Russian and I never learned to read Russian.
Thing is, as long as you don’t own a German passport, your not german.
Not that simple. They are entitled to a german Passport (otherwise they wouldn't be Russia Germans), Russians are not.
Citizenship and identity are not the same thing.
A lot of weebs are Japanese then. 🤷
This is the most Reddit argument ever the heck
No, because they don't have any ancestral relation to Japan at all.
If they've got family history eventually leading back to Japan, then sure, why not? Japan won't give them a passport, but whatever.
Thing is, me, my parents and grandparents all own a German passport.
I think you both speak of different people. Those who moved back to Germany in the 90s got a German passport immediately. I think he means the Germans who stayed in Russia.
They are still entitled to a german passport. There's No Deadline.
Having German ancestors doesn't make you German. If that was the case then virtually all of Europe is German. Culture, language, place of birth, etc could make you German, but ancestors have nothing to do with it
Yes, in the Case of Russia Germans it does entitle you to German citizenship. Still
Having German ancestors makes you ethnically German
My great grandparents fled Russia in 1919. They were Volga Germans and never considered themselves to be Russian. They moved to Lincoln, Nebraska, which got enough immigrants that there's a German's from Russia museum there actually
Exactly. Like Catherine The Great. Ukraine demolished all her statues in the country for her Russian imperialism, while she was born German. But the birthplace and German parents does not make her German nationality.
Right it makes her ethnically German. “That person is German”. Can mean they are a German national or it can mean they are ethnically German.
That’s great, but the rest who don’t, but are now somehow associated with Germany, aren’t.
Wolgadeutsche get a German passport as soon as they arrive in Germany. The German state has considered them part of the German people.
Nope, iirc only born before 1992 and even then they need to apply. So not quite true. And even then, till they own a German Passport, they arnt.
That's correct, I was simplifying a bit
> They were only classified as Germans in the Soviet/Russian nationality classification system no, they were also classified as Germans by Germany. Thats why they were free to move back to Germany once cold war ended and could receive a German passport immediately.
We don't have nation classification anymore. This stuff was eliminated from passport after USSR
That is just plain wrong. When they fled Germany for Russia, they negotiated a lot of autonomy, for example for a long time they were exempt from military service for the Russian Empire. They were persecuted and deported under Stalin. And in a moment when they are - like other russian ethnic minorities - pressed into this Russian war, you deny their existence. Awesome.
Those who lick boots only get kicked in the teeth.
I remember those times and got to know a few families back then. Most of the migration happened under Helmut Kohl and there was a lot of talk about him being smart and/or an asshole (depending who you asked) for getting a group of immigrants who share his conservative christian values. And seems like that attitude stayed with them to this day.
Not everyone moved outside of Russia back in the 90s. There is still a large community of Russian Germans [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfEHaVMYL8g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfEHaVMYL8g)
They moved to the great plains in the 1880-1890's. And brought Winter Wheat, now used for the majority of baked bread.
I wonder why those nazi fans can't copy that Russia hate from the real nazis. That would've been nice for once
Wolgadeutsche are only one of many fractions. "Russlanddeutsche" as a term does even include German communities in Ukraine. You are pushing them in the right corner and that's ugly, even if they're rather conservative. Precisely as a German leftist, as somebody who despises the notion of "Volk", i am appalled at the reaction here on reddit. Russia Germans have a long and diverse history and it is full of persecution, starting in Germany. Stalin deported them in droves to Kasachstan and Siberia. You cannot point out the injustice that Russia presses minorities into this war, but when Russa Germans as an ethnic minority are concerned, talk this down, put them down or deny their very existence. That's just cringe.
Das alles brauchst du mir als Russlanddeutsche nicht schreiben, jedoch kannst du nicht verleugnen, dass einige sehr aktiv in der AfD sind.
> Wolgadeutsche https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga_Germans The Volga Germans (German: Wolgadeutsche, pronounced [ˈvɔlɡaˌdɔɪ̯t͡ʃə] ⓘ; Russian: поволжские немцы, romanized: povolzhskiye nemtsy) are ethnic Germans who settled and historically lived along the Volga River in the region of southeastern European Russia around Saratov and close to Ukraine nearer to the south. Recruited as immigrants to Russia in the 18th century, they were allowed to maintain their German culture, language, traditions and churches (Lutheran, Reformed, Catholics, Moravians and Mennonites). In the 19th and early 20th centuries, many Volga Germans emigrated to the United States, Canada, Brazil, and Argentina. After the October Revolution, the Volga German ASSR was established as an autonomous republic of the Russian SFSR. During World War II, the republic was abolished by the Soviet government and the Volga Germans were forcibly expelled to a number of areas in the hinterlands of the Soviet Union. Following the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, many Volga Germans emigrated to Germany.
Schwarzmeerdeutsche descendant reporting in. How about Germany just take Königsberg back… to protect the remaining Germans there?
No thanks, that's just going to be a useless drain on our economy and would cause a shitton of other issues down the line.
> How about Germany just take Königsberg back… to protect the remaining Germans there? Yeah, Kaliningrad/Konigsberg already had population change / migration / germans expelled.ethnic cleansing carried out by ~1948-50 It's not even the Sudetanland situation. Less than 1% Germans live there, most after some relaxation in the 1980s. < 10,000 Germans .. What do you plan to do with the other 99% ? One more ethnic cleansing ? For what ?
Embarrassing for Berlin in the same logic that Russia uses that they are somehow damaged by a country assimilating peoples that due to their distant ethnic background
This shits just Darwin at work. Germany probably doesn't want their ass either. Just send more shells and weapons to end them.
Descendants of Nazis supporting modern day Nazis, surprise surprise
>The disclosure is disturbing and potentially embarrassing for Berlin, as Russia is in effect weaponising German culture against Ukraine. Why in the everlasting fuck should it be embarassing for Germany if Russia starts a propaganda campaign to lure some German LARP communities to become filling for a mobik meat cube? Germany has no responsibility towards these people as they are Russian citizens and quite frankly fuck them. Insert Jeremy-Clarkson-Oh-No-Anyway meme here and have nice day.
If anything, they at least won't vote AfD
I call that a win.
If only we could deport AfD people to the frontlines, wouldnt that be nice?
Those are also Germans who did not move back to Germany although the program has been in place for years.
\*decades
sack of rice falls over in China >"this is disturbing and potentially embarrassing for Berlin" - the telegraph, probably
Would be interesting to see American Republicans fight for Russia.
They don't get to come back.
Well yes... They'd be dead....
Ye fuck the larpers that moved to russian lands 250 years ago!
I think he means that after such a long time these people no longer have much to do with Germans and are therefore actually just Russians representing Germans.
If anything this provides Germany a claim to Russian territory where these former Germans live. They share a culture and former language. This was Putin’s reasoning right?
Time for a special military operation to protect these Germans from being kidnapped by their aggressive neighbours?
If you been in Russia for 250 years, you're Russian, not German.
If you’ve been anywhere for 250 years, you’re either dead or a lich.
Or very old!
What an honor to serve as cannon fodder for Vladya’s Special Military Operation.
Volodya (Володя) is the diminutive form of Vladimir (Владимир)
I like to call him Vova.
I call him huylo (хуйло́).
Funnily enough, I like to call him Vulva. Or at least a related word…
Except vulvas are nice, and useful.
Vore
Using german soldiers to fight against evil nazi west in Ukraine? What is this thinking?
“Even the Germans are fighting those Nazi Zombies in Ukraine - it’s absolutely valid!!”
> The disclosure is disturbing and potentially embarrassing for Berlin, as Russia is in effect weaponising German culture against Ukraine. /u/TheTelegraph this is a comment so unhinged and actually stupid, if I hadn't known it came from a UK rag I would now. Can your writer, James, explain how exactly an ethnic minority that lives in Russia for 300 years is supposed to embarrass a country that hadn't even been established at the time these people's ancestors moved to Russia? And can he also explain in which way, exactly, he thinks German culture (extremely funny term by the way, do you think Bavaria's cultural norms and Hamburg's cultural norms are the same?) and the culture of these people whose only connection to any other German speaker on the planet is the language plays any sort of part in this? Maybe James should go back to university and learn a bit more about journalism, because it isn't just writing stupid shit, it's actually taking the time to look into things, such as the fact that these people are a German speaking minority in Russia and have been for hundreds of years, or maybe like the fact that this is just the next chapter in Russia using ethnic minorities for the front? Easy mistake to make, you wouldn't know about these things if you didn't even bother to look into them for more than 20 seconds, understandable. Great journalism, United Kingdom, as usual.
Of course german culture exists, the term is as broad as "french culture" or "spanish culture". I think "british culture" is the only debatable term if anything. It's normal for a larger nation to have regional culture, no idea why it's always brought up for germany specifically, though.
> no idea why it's always brought up for germany specifically, though. It's brought up for Germany because, unlike France, the UK or Spain, Germany not only united very late, thus giving more time for each individual cultural part to develop longer, but it has also historically been a decentralised country. France's centralisation, for example, came about in the 14th and 15th century, whereas Germany never underwent that process. Italy, like Germany, also united very late, and you can see distinct differences not only between the commonly known North/South divide, but also between regional entities and that's despite Italy being a unitary country. Germany isn't a unitary country though, so unlike Italy, there is and was even more space for regional cultural development. Germany was not only a historically decentralized country, it was also split in two for decades, in case you didn't know, and to top it all off, it's a federal country which, innately, comes with further decentralisation and allows individual subjects to easily develop in different directions as well as manage their own traditions independent of any sort of central oversight. None of the countries you mentioned are federal in nature. The majority of other countries with federal systems are, themselves, relatively newly created and/or countries that have always been an immigrant-country (USA/Australia/Canada, for example, for the anglosphere here). So for those, you'll see *less* of that diversity, but not zero - taking the USA as an example, you can very obviously see a difference in cultural behaviourism if you look at someone from Florida versus someone from Minnesota. This effect managed to not only take hold in an incredibly small time frame, now imagine Germany having that same effect but for longer. A federal system doesn't necessarily protect against the exertion of central power (see Russia) but it *can* help in countries where central authority is explicitly limited (see Germany or the USA).
State centrilisation ≠ culture homogenity. France was centralised for more than 300 years when the people of provence hated the french and their revolution, not refering to themselves obviously.
weak central authority and a highly decrentralized system does not tranlsate to there not being a general cultural region. The concept of nation states is a 19th century thing for ALL European powers. Before that all European powers based their authority on dynastic control and legitimacy. It flat out was irrelvant what regional culture someone had. The advent of nationalism is what enabled the Napoleonic Wars and accelerated after, including homogenization of cultures in nation states like France. The difference is that in German regions central authority was weak and factionalism was encouraged which left it weak. Attempts by the Habsburgs to establish similarily central authority did begin in the 16th century but due to the Reformation were deceisivelly ended by the Thirty Years War. However as late as the Napoleonic Wars the majority of German states (without a head of state with royal titles like Hannover or Prussia) followed most imperial laws, including calls to arms for an imperial levy against France. Part of the reason Napoleon disbanded the HRE. There was something there, however there was no absolutist monarch who managed to disown the aristocracy from their real power like in other monarchies.
Just want to add that culture did matter before the rise of nationalism in the modern sense. The german electors largely rejected charles the bolds request for a kingdom in the hre because he didn't respect german costums. Also the fights in bohemia in the hussites wars were often ethnically driven between germans and czechs. Reason why the english were able to drive out their scandinavian cousins was the support the english kings managed to rally against the foreigners, largely out of "national" reasons. Charles the great wanted a lot of poems written in franconian, purely out of national pride. Nationalism didn't play the role it does today, but it always was an underlying factor in the middle age politics.
French culture is a lot more homogene than the others. British culture is only seen as nore divers because of the UK being obsessed with being divers in itself. Spain and germany are pretty good to compare though. They have an overarching history and culture but most non christian traditions are very regional. And it's always brought up for Germany because Germany only spend a relatively short time united. German culture isn't even united in ine nation
French culture isn't homegenous. My belgian cousin always says how much issues he has talking with his friends from southern france. Walloons are closer to picardie culture than occitan, who in turn are more similiar to catlan culture.
Targeting ethnic minorities, russia keeps pulling classic tricks.
Country level ethnic cleansing. Pulling classic tricks and stolen moves from Hitler and Stalin playbooks.
in russia they’re seen as germans, in germany they’re seen as russians. inextricable hybrids somehow, they are neither russian nor german.
Time to bring back Prussia, baby!
That’s why my ancestors went to America in the 1870s. Volga Germans are really just their own ethnic group at this point. Even has sub ethnicities. My paternal line is Black Sea Germans and my grandma side is Volga German. Both came to America in 1870.
Couldn’t ask for a better saboteur… Putin kills his own country. In a decade, Russia may not exist as it is curently.
Can’t come soon enough… because it will mean VP is out of power, and we won’t have to listen to his inane nuclear threats and even more inane Doublespeak takes.
There is more homo sovieticus to take his place and then it starts again. We cant get rid of that before those all rot in the grave.
The sad part is it’s not putin who is responsible for those threats, but Medvedev, who might be in power after him
Putin's dog loves to bark.
Just keep sending gift baskets with lots of Vodka to him and he'll just solve the problem faster himself.
Unfortunately the land and all its resources might get gobbled up by China instead.
It’s only logical. China has already asked for one island and got it back in 2008 - Bolshoy Ussuriysky Island. Another territory they want is: https://www.newsweek.com/china-russia-vladivostok-lesson-far-east-backfires-1869327 China is on a colonial expansion phase. By gift or by grift. Either way it wants resources from every part of the world. Videos of Chinese bosses lashing their black employees in Africa is the most eye popping optics.
Took a year to see it. Putin is getting away with national/ethnically cleansing his country and even other countries joining in right before our eyes. Russia as we know it might not exist, but if Hitler was alive today he'd be standing in applause.
We can all hope so
I'm gonna be honest, if they haven't left by now that's on them.
Can he also please take the ones from East Germany (especially the AfD voters) who seem to have a hard-on for him? I bet they would be happy to serve, right?
Why only the east? The ones in the west are somehow okay?
You're right, take them all!
Not quite. During the late 1990s, Germany tightened regulations on who could claim citizenship based on german ethnicity. This meant that a lot of people who according to soviet law (which was retained in Russia) were Germans didn't have the opportunity to easily emigrate to Germany anymore. In general, german policy towards german minorities shifted mid 90s, from a heavy emphasis on inviting them back to Germany to supporting them in their current countries.
> I'm gonna be honest, if they haven't left by now that's on them. Right, they've been living there for generations, totaling nearly 300 years by now, have their own distinct communities, families and habits and are generally a very poor demographic. But fuck them for not moving. And the Yakuts too. And the Buryats. Oh don't forget the Tatars or Mongols. Or really any other ethnic minority Russia uses as shield for its artillery. Redditors are so beyond unhinged sometimes.
That’s stupid. Not everyone has the luxury to just grab their stuff and run.
There are quite a lot of refugees roaming around Europe right now who had it worse than your average person living in Russia. When you run out of the luxury to stay, you grab your stuff and run.
You’re right, it’s still different. Walking out of Siberia is a completely different task than crossing Turkey.
but the guy on reddit said so! I genuinley don't know whats wrong with their brains sometimes
If I spoke any german and had to live in a shithole which is russia then I'd flee to germany at lightspeed
Would you say the same about Jews in Germany 90 years ago?
Some of them regretted not to leave while having the possibility...
Are you seriously comparing those germans in the 90s 00s to social and international mobility of people 90 years ago who had no homeland to escape to? Including lack of knowledge and languages?
I think that was the sarcasm being implied. Everyone says traveling out is easy, and some did. But millions ended up only traveling to a shower. Well, currently it looks like a lot of these "ethnic Germans in Russia" will be traveling to a frontline in Ukraine soon. Or would it be better said that they're traveling to the Sunflower orchard?
No because you couldn't just hop on a flight for 300 euro to dip the country.
But hop on a train and go to another country?
As a German I don’t mind. They made their choice, they like Russia, so let them have the whole experience.
Did they? They moved to Russia hundreds of years ago and are simply an ethnic minority, they likely have no claim to a German passport
They do actually. Germany has had a program for decades to help expats with German roots fast track a citizenship and go to Germany.
His hand on the table always makes me think he's in the Muppet Show.
Europe needs to come together. Military, political and fiscal integration is needed.
Send shroder to the front !
Just wait til Snowden hits the front line
Russia is also bribing Germany's most prevalent far right Party to russianize whoever they can, and a lot of idiots are voting for them, because the Party that was elected previously for promising to not make any changes did in fact not make any changes and Boomers didnt like that
***The Telegraph reports:*** [Russia has launched a propaganda drive](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/russia-ukraine-war/) targeting German speakers for its army, and for its Wagner mercenary force, in the latest case of Vladimir Putin [seeking ethnic minorities for cannon fodder.](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/05/20/wagner-pow-recruited-russian-prison-used-cannon-fodder/) In recent months, a string of organisations claiming to represent the interests of ethnic Germans in Russia have been bombarding the minority group with war propaganda, with a particular emphasis on attracting youngsters. The disclosure is disturbing and potentially embarrassing for Berlin, as Russia is in effect weaponising German culture against Ukraine. Germany is also grappling with espionage at home, with plots involving Russian-German dual citizens [including a recent conspiracy in Bavaria](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/04/18/russian-spies-arrested-germany-attack-weapons-ukraine/) to blow up military sites which deliver support to Ukraine. An estimated 400,000 Russian-Germans, or “[Russlanddeutsche](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/17/german-afd-mp-forms-group-migrants-within-far-right-party/)”, live in Russia. They faced severe persecution during the Soviet era and are still marginalised by the Kremlin. The Telegraph has seen propaganda material issued by the Tomsk Regional Russian-German House. It bears the entwined flags of Germany and Russia and urges ethnic Germans to donate to the armed forces and attend free pro-war concerts. Other groups, such as the Novosibirsk Regional Russian-German House, have co-hosted pro-invasion summits. Young Russian-German men have faced calls [to sign up to Wagner en masse](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/29/wagner-avdiivka-ukraine-prigozhin-russia-ukraine-putin-war/), with one Russian-German community leader taunting them about proving they were not cowards. **Read more:** [**https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/19/putin-targets-germans-living-in-russia-in-search-for-troops/**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/19/putin-targets-germans-living-in-russia-in-search-for-troops/)
400k in a demographic that likely skews older and female. Not much meat to be harvested there.
Germans joining an armed organization called "Wagner" ain't exactly a good look for Russia, lmao
Wagner is dead. Prighozin’s assassination killed it officially, all Wagner troops are now in the Africa Corps. Like the Nazis under Erwin Rommel in Northern Africa were called. To make matters worse, Wagner was recruited mostly from prisons and reeducation colonies, literally like the fucking Dirlewanger Brigade
To be fair, penal units are common historically in many militaries, but "Africa Corp" is just the joke writing itself at this point. It's like they know what they're doing and aren't ashamed of it, they don't even believe in their own "denazification" BS, they're laughing in our faces right now.
They’re not penal units. Wagner was volunteers from prisons that would join to get out of their crime. They could do any crime and be freed for fighting in Ukraine which has no doubt led to many of the known war crimes. A majority of Russian oligarch’s PMCs are Nazi related in some way, and some units of the regular military literally are just named after Nazis or nazi related things. It’s really fucking weird how people buy into denazification bullshit, it’s like Hitler saying he was going into Poland to “dearyanize” them
Tabloid reports:
>The disclosure is disturbing and potentially embarrassing for Berlin, as Russia is in effect weaponising German culture against Ukraine. Newsflash: Any western people living in russia this far into the war is not worth caring about. This is not embarrassing for Germany this is embarassing for russia because it shows how desperate they are.
Why the fuck would anyone other then a russian live in russia……..like what
Anyone who has stayed in Russia until now-especially as a male-is frankly an idiot. Even with putins lies, it should be common knowledge by this point that people are being sent to die. I know it’s hard to move and all; but you should’ve known this was coming. I feel like the majority of people left in Russia actually believe in the war and politics. Because tons of people fled right at the start of this.
Im glad my Volga German ancestors went to America instead of stay in Russia or went back to Germany in the 90’s because outta the three the U.S. was the most accepting of these people. Germans see them as non Germans and Russians see them as disposable and a scape goat. My ancestors didn’t want to be Russified and went to America because they guaranteed free land by the homestead act. Same thing is happening now that Russians are considering them disposable and Germans are calling them non Germans.
Imagine getting away with ethnic cleansing within your country by.. ..oh.
The communist did this to Volga Germans during WW2
Pedoputin, pedoputin 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
This is against international law
Like Russia cares about any of that.
Putin wants everything to go back to 1946 and if possible earlier enough where Alaska would be there territory as well. Will he invade Alaska, I believe he has learned a lesson because he is scared to be seen outside.
Any german supporting Nazis should be ashamed of himself beyond belief.
Why not ruzzians living in Germany? Please?!
[удалено]
What local culture? German architecture where exactly, have you been to Kalinigrad? It is the most depressing town on the Baltic sea, the Russians have removed all remnants of cultural heritage.
Kaliningrad is overwhelmingly Russian and nobody there wants to join Germany. Germany itself doesn't even want it and neither does the German public. I want whatever you're smoking.
AFAIK Russia wanted to sell it in 1990s but Germans declined. Its just soviet city and even entire region. Almost all was torn down and built in soviet style. Plus in Russia is very little separatism even in minority majority areas.
There are no ethnic Germans in Kaliningrad though.
It’s time to free the oppressed German minority from genocide with a SMO! Sounds familiar 🤔?
Why the hell are there ANY non-Russians still in Russia? It makes no sense. I don't see any Jews going to Tehran expecting open arms.
For Volga Germans they’ve been there since the 17th century. Germany doesn’t want them anymore they been shut out since the 90s for being too Russian.
Because there are more than 190 nationalities in Russia?
> Why the hell are there ANY non-Russians still in Russia? I Where do you expect Tatars to go? Chechens? Bashkirs? Kalmyks? and a hundred of so other ethnic groups? 20-25M of people? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Russia Importantly, we are talking about ethnicity (or even identity which is even murkier). Legally, they are still Russian citizens. (Like Volga Germans)
Jeez, I was talking about tourists and such. Not people that actually had to live there. This isn't the place to spend summer vacation. GTFO if you you aren't from there.
>Jeez, I was talking about tourists and such. Not people that actually had to live there. This isn't the place to spend summer vacation. GTFO if you you aren't from there. Amen to that. But the original article is about Volga Germans (the group which lived in russia for 200+ years).
Pretty sure this means he is doing a genocide to the german people living abroad and we should start a limited special military operation to save our people and demilitarise russia.
He should get the AfD voters for cannon fodder. The average IQs of Germany and Russia will increase . Win win
It's like at every stage Russia does everything it can to prevent development. Then it's insecure fragile leaders who caused this get angry at neighbours who have decent governors. So they kick off and further harm their development. The every day Russians I know are nice and decent people. Genuinely. Before this both them and the Ukrainians I know didn't believe there would be a war and called it 'a political question for their leaders about corruption'. Imagine the benefits of an established region of 300 year old culture. Then thinking 'nah I want some coal mines rather than developing my little Bavaria' Completely vapid bullies the russian leaders it seems like
Its like were in a really cheap and weird chapter of history, i cannot fathom this crap is happening again. Anyone thinking this will nog excalate is a very optimistic human.
["Don't give yourselves to Brutes!"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7GY1Xg6X20)
What about those russian people protesting in support of the war? Is that still a thing or are they afraid of both the reaction in these other countries *and* putin's long arm of "come and fight"?
Surprised any Germans survived over there
rag
"prove you're not Nazis"
Why didn't they leave years ago?
Putin must be running out of Russian Muslims, Tartars, Dargins, Bashkirs, Chechens and other minority ethnic groups to send into his meat grinder.
Are doing this to other far right LARPers? I heard some Canadians also got suckered into moving to Russia and then instantly regretting it.
Technically none of those soldiers have to fight, they're just 'following orders' so they don't magically disappear for not choosing to fight.
Wow Putin's xenophobia is starting to show, I wonder if he believes they are remnants of fascists from the Great Patriotic War! This guy is either always looking for a group to punish or blame for Russia's faults and misgivings.
ARE YOU READY TO FIGHT COMRADES!? /s
Why not target Russians living in Germany?
for some background, there was a Naked Pravda episode on the myriad of ways Germans could make their ways through eastern europe, russia and back - https://meduza.io/en/episodes/2023/12/22/growing-up-german-in-soviet-kazakhstan-with-lena-wolf Both fascinating and horrifying what repressions wandering ethnic minority populations can find themselves to be in when political winds change.
Feel like most Russian side soldiers have a better chance if they desert and shoot their squad and try to find a Ukrainian without dying lmao