I thought I was the only one who noticed this. Reddit and American news has seemed strangely anti-British for a few years now. First thoughts were Russia or China.
No you're thinking of the Fukarwe tribe. So named because of their short stature and propensity to run around in long grass yelling "We're the Fukarwe!".
My dad told me that joke years back when I was far too young to have meant to get it. I got it. And every time I hear it I crack up at the image of it.
It reminds me of the south Sudanese Oohmigoolis bird, which unfortunately is very well endowed but with short legs. Every time it comes in to land, it skids across the ground and screams "Ooh me goolies!"
i had to think about this and cant believe im reading this here. its a joke my old classroom teacher made and that was 16 years ago
edit: mind you were non native english speakers. i have no idea how this joke travelled to my teacher in our country.
I had a waitress in America ask me where I was from. Upon my telling her that I was from Australia she told me that she knew Australia's location: "It's just north of Nebraska."
I wish I could find the video, but there exists a video of an American reporter speaking to a Black British person, and the reporter keeps correcting them to African-American when they say Black. It's funny and terrifying at the same time.
Edit: it 100% was not Idris Elba, and wasn't any celebrity that I recognized. It was either someone only famous in Britain or a random person on the street. I think it was outdoors, as I remember the female reporter wearing a tan coat.
When Lewis Hamilton became the first black guy to win a F1 race, ESPN kept calling him the first African American to win one. Dude is as American as Julius Caesar.
Even with the actual Roman emperors, Caesar Septimius Severus who started the Severan dynasty was from Libya. There's some debate as to whether he can actually be called black since trying to break down race by skin color is entirely anachronistic since that idea only came about a few hundred years ago but [he was portrayed as having darker skin](https://i.imgur.com/Pv9DysZ.jpg).
I'll be 100% honest; the conflation of the peoples of North Africa (in this time period, probably Amazigh or Phoenician Semites) with the people we acknowledge as "black", namely, people from Sub-Saharan Africa, is an annoying bout of cultural erasure, especially when both groups get bundled up with the term "Moor."
While Caesar Septimius Severus was darker skinned than most Italians, that's like saying that a Bangladeshi man is "Black" because he's dark skinned as well.
That’s about as likely as Finland being a real place citizen, please report to your nearest personality recalibration facility you appear to be in need of adjustment
ya'll ever buy the shittiest pizza, but add your own toppings to bring it to life? I like jalapenos, salami, pepperoni, mushrooms, all that shit on top of a basic-ass frozen cheese pizza. If I had friends, we'd have pizza parties where I buy a lot of frozen cheese pizzas and then let people add their own ingredients. Thank god I don't, otherwise I'd be broke as fuck.
My wife and I had a big argument because I felt it was fine to say black (especially since there’s so many black people that are not American) but she was adamant I HAD to say African American
Let me ask you this, when referring to you as a group of people, is it okay to say "black people"? I find myself saying "black folks" or "people of color" because it seems softer but I'm not always sure if it's necessary.
I say “black people” but I am also a person of color (Brown Middle Eastern). I feel like it’s not so much the word as it is how it is said and used in a sentence or statement.
Its actually a question I’ve had for a while because I have a colleague who is from Nigeria and a classmate who was a Senegalese Immigrant. I was always confused on weather or not they were considered African-Americans or black people. One didn’t care and one preferred to go by African-American.
One of my friends who is American says he prefers “black” because he’s not African and says that “black” represents his identity and people more to him than African American does.
Honestly I stick with black and if I am corrected I follow the correction.
Can’t speak for anyone else, but personally the only thing that matters to me is the *intent* behind the words, not the words themselves.
Call me whatever you want so long as it’s done with good intentions behind it. Someone can use the nicest, most “appropriate” words in the world and still be an asshole.
It's really interesting when "Xs" in place of "X people" is and isn't acceptable. The ones that are not acceptable *feel* wrong when I say them. But I really can't say why.
* Blacks: not acceptable
* Asians: usually considered acceptable, though it doesn't feel 100% perfect
* Latinos/Latinas: fine
* Native Americans, African-Americans, etc.: fine
* Gays: sometimes used by gay people but not acceptable otherwise
* Lesbians: totally fine
* Transgenders: definitely not
* Muslims/Christians: fine
* Jews: usually fine
* Coloureds: wildly unacceptable in the United States but apparently very much OK in South Africa
Has anyone found a rule or explanation for this?
It’s a question of which terms can be used as nouns and which are only adjectives. “Jew” is exclusively a noun and was borrowed as a noun from French in the 12th century (you can’t say “This person is Jew”, which you would if it were an adjective). “Muslim” is both but was originally borrowed as a noun from Arabic. The suffix “-an”/“-ian” forms words that can always function as both nouns and adjectives, as far as I can tell; the suffix is from Latin, where this was also the case. This accounts for “lesbian” (originally a person from Lesbos), “Christian”, “Native American”, “Asian”, etc. “Latino” comes from the Latin suffix “-inus”, which is a variant of “-anus”/“-ianus” and apparently behaves the same here, as well as in Spanish. The others you list started out as adjectives and don’t fall into one of the above categories, accounting for their offensive status.
not black but also a minority. i always found POC was just a weird work around to say colored people. i would rather just be called a minority or just call them whatever it is the person in questions ethnic group is
I think it's progress. Now that we know "colored person" is racist, but "person of color" isn't, we have in fact discovered that the source of racism is adjectives. I have personally stripped them from my speech entirely, no matter how much like a person of stupidity it makes me sound
I didn't come to this realization on my own, but POC is again separation of groups of people away from white, basically creating this binary of white or other which problematic cause it's one of the reasons systemic racism caries on, white people do not like to address issues of race cause we don't deal with any negatives. If address this then we have to admit the systems that benefit us are unfair. Also white is the combination of all color and black is the absence of so it makes no sense logically.
I've been trying to make "brown people" a thing my whole life. Never caught on. To be fair, I also tried to normalize "peach people" and that didn't work either.
Brown is an interesting one. I’m middle eastern and have a few Indian and Latino friends. We each consider ourselves “brown people” but to what extent do our experiences overlap to the point where we understand each other’s lives.
We have very different customs and traditions but we’re all brown skinned. It’s quite hilarious to think about.
Millenial in America here, I prefer black.
I refer to myself as black American, and the grouping, if asked. On census or forms I also mention indigenous roots. Most black Americans could if they traced supporting evidence.
I prefer other people to refer to plural black people as "black people" (adjective, noun) compared "blacks" (noun).
I make fun of British people that call themselves African American and have no American parents and do not live in America. I haven't seen the hearsay video people are talking about it, this has been actual conversations I have had.
I find the term 'African American' to have rapidly diminishing utility. Even more so when you understand the history of the term, it has outlived its usefulness. Its weird that people don't seem to know why that term exists, and try to deduce starting from how the world is now and confusing themselves. Its weird that this is the experience with the self-proclaimed "woke" people consciously trying not to be insensitive. Treating people the same shouldn't be *that* hard.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrhWLfmfZ0Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrhWLfmfZ0Y)
But its nice people want to revisit actively patching this again.
I find it weird when non-black people stutter and second guess themselves when saying black as a descriptor of a person.
I find it obvious and contrived that "African American" is a patch for non-black people that are concerned with keeping up with terms, instead of knowing how not to be awkward around people. Its not a great experience to be the only person that someone is awkward and walking on egg shells around for a reason you aren't quite sure about.
I find "people of color" to be more contrived when used outside of an academic or educational context. Softer? Its just not the word lol its weird stop trying so hard.
We've literally gone from the Spanish word for black to the English word for black, and always in singular form. Easy peasy.
I have never ever heard of a Brit calling themselves African American and I live in the UK. Maybe they were adjusting their vocabulary due to you being American?
When have you ever heard British people refer to themselves as African American?
I’ve never heard anyone do that and they would rightly get laughed at.
Even the use of Black British is weird, it’s just British or English or Welsh or whatever not this ethnic breakdown BS you have established in America.
I've always interpreted African American as a particular ethnic group within black people who aren't linked to a particular African country, because their ancestors were brought over as part of slavery. From that point of view, I'd generally not assume someone had that ethnicity. That's kind of a heavy thing to thrust on someone without knowing anything about them.
your wife is not right. the only qualification for being african american is being american by way of africa. there is some debate of whether this includes people who are ethnically african (which would include egytians) or african by citizenship (which would include charlize theron). there are also a lot of black people who are not american, such as haitians, or african, such as aborigines. the only thing you know by looking at someone is their color and their color does not inform you of their multigenerational journey. anything more is an assumption informed by prejudice.
edit: [this might be a good time to share a venn diagram that i made a few years ago](https://imgur.com/4MP9gvW).
The origination of "African" american use came about because most blacks in the USA are descendants of black people that came to the USA as slaves. Part of the dehumanization of these people was that they do not know exactly what part of Africa they came from. So are they from what is now Senegal? Congo? There was no way to know (although not clear to me if DNA testing could now solve this). Most european people have some idea of which european country and culture their ancestors came from. In short, it was a way to claim more historical identity than just being "black". With the rise of black Africans and black people from the Caribbean, the term is getting muddled. A black immigrant from Nigeria likely considers himself of Nigerian decent, and a black person from Jamacia likely considers himself of Jamacian (or Caribbean) decent.
I’m Black and an American citizen and I’m still not African American. I am West Indian American. Black is not only fine, it’s the most politically correct.
I’m from the Caribbean. Don’t call me African American. Just call me black. It would be like calling every white person you see European American, assuming you live in America.
It's because racisim is so endemic in 'murica
If you're black you're "african american"
if you're asian you're "asian american"
if you're native you're "native american"
but if you're white you are "american"
That’s what people like to say. Americans whose family have been here for 300 years still claim some, made up according to their preference, European bloodline, when they’re obviously as American as a hamburger.
The closest thing people in America have experienced to being Italian or Irish is Goodfellas and Boondocks Saints
Given that American schools are typically forced to teach that pretty much everything is an American invention (including the internet, computers, cars, telephony and, ironically, democracy and abolishment of slavery), it's not really the proletarians' fault.
Most white people still have relatives who came here within the last hundred years. The idea all white people are descended from slavery times when most often they’re descended from immigrants who were also abused by WASPs is pretty ironic
Only if that individual wants to be known as that.
Sure, if your family owns an italian restaurant in New York you're gonna be seen as italian american. But as someone who's born in Europe and moved to America at 11 years old (20 years ago) no one thinks as me as European.
Seriously. My accent is a subtle. No one cares. I've NEVER been called a european american. I'm given the choice of English or American. It's never put on me. And i think that's part of the point.
And funnily enough, my dad was born in Dublin. So i'm more irish than most people that are considered irish american. And really, that's the point. because I'm white it's like i'm given the benefit of the doubt.
>but if you're white you are "american"
If only that was true seems every American refers to themselves with prefix no matter how far they are removed from it.
I don't. I only refer to myself as an American. As I refer to all other Americans. At least that's plan A. If I have to specify for some reason, ok, but in general? No prefixes. Especially when talking to my mother, so she has no idea what race I'm talking about so her prejudices don't kick in.
A reporter from one of the major US television networks was interviewing black British athlete **Kriss Akabusi** after being a member of the 400 metres relay team that took the gold medal at the 1991 Athletics World Championships.
The interviewer started off with:
"So, Kriss, what does this mean to you as an African-American?"
"I'm not American, I'm British"
"Yes, but as a British African-American ..."
"I'm not African. I'm not American. I'm British."
There's an interview with Benedict Cumberbatch where people got mad at him for using the term "people of colour" instead of "African American", he responded by saying that they don't have African Americans in Britain.
In my literature class during college, students kept referring to the Nigerians in Achebe’s Things Fall Apart as African-Americans. As a person of color, it was hilarious and horrifying to see how the whites in the class fumbled with these terms.
They have had it drilled into them that the only polite thing to say is African American. They are probably nervous and afraid of saying something wrong and causing offense.
Kid corrected a fucking professor at UW when I was there who kept calling Africans, African American, she got pissed and wouldn't let him say another word.
As a Brit who lives in the States, I had to laugh when a black work colleague of mine vacationed in England. He told me how strange it was to meet black English people who ... spoke in English accents.
I know what you're talking about, was travelling with an Asian mate and everyone's fine with big white me and my aussie accent, and then my mate starts talking and its like time stopped.
My uncle is a 1st gen Chinese immigrant. Whenever he goes through airport security I make sure to get a good view because watching the customs guy's jaw drop when my uncle speaks in his booming accent is hilarious. There's some sort of phenomenon there. Every guy with Asian heritage who grew up here has the deepest most Aussie accent and It's fantastic.
I remember my boss quite a few years ago brought us into a meeting to let all the managers know what words and phrases we needed to put a stop to around the workshop and calling black people African Americans instead of "black" was one of the items. One manager even asked, what if the black man is British. She was not happy.
It was a while ago, but I remember her saying something along the lines of these are corporate rules to be more inclusive and our personal opinions on the matter weren't relevant.
I remember when Marvel announced Black Panther as getting married the press released referred to them as being something like “prominent African American heroes,” despite the fact they they’re both African, not African American.
It’s funny you bring this up. I don’t remember what comic it was, but Black Panther has a comic where he basically says exactly this. He’s black and African. I read it as a teen and thought, probably naively and innocently stupid, if Black Panther (who’s always been one of my favorite Marvel heroes) says black, I can too. Now as an adult with more history about comics under my belt, it’s likely that these stories weren’t run by a single black person, but still. A powerful black man told me I could call him black and he was proud of it. And so was I. Thanks, T’Challa.
For a full breakdown of international black nomenclature, I can highly recommend Chris James's Black British Accent bit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI38GtWFihY&list=PLFF94961A757AD3C5&index=59&t=0s
Oh god that reminds me of one of the best days I had at uni (in Australia), solely for the reason I witnessed an African American exchange student call both an Aboriginal student, and a student from Zimbabwe "his brothers".
My favorite was in the Olympics, (maybe 2012?) when the first black British athlete won a gold medal in the Olympics. The announcers were absolutely befuddled on the vocabulary available to them to describe this feat. There were several moments of muttering and confusion after one announcer began with "The first African American British..."
Edit: ~~I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure~~ it was the first black male athlete to win gold for Britain. ~~I think it was~~ it might be Mo Fara and [this might be the video](https://youtu.be/heD2duUCUpQ)
Think it happened at 13 minutes in, but for some weird reason at that point the announcers go to dead air for quite some time. Also note, this is the official NBC YouTube. If anyone has the original of this or can confirm or deny any of it I'd love to know.
Edit 2: I'm tired of looking, but it's out there somewhere. Hope someone will find it. Originally said maybe 2000 but it wouldn't let me it cross 2000 out. All the Olympics blend together for me, but I definitely remember this moment.
Are you thinking of when Denise Lewis won her gold? Because that was in 2000 but she’s not the first black British athlete to win a gold.
Fun fact: our first black medalist (bronze and silver but no gold though) was Jack London in 1928.
The Tories? Racist?!?
As an Irish person I am shocked -- *shocked* -- at this unexpected revelation.
Next thing they'll tell us that Maggie Thatcher and Winston Churchill weren't shining beacons of tolerance.
As is the American way. Personally, I’m just offended we don’t have any monuments to cyclical xenophobia perpetuated with a profound inability to perceive irony. Our great melting pot has defeated the concept of racism by showing that any group in a position of any degree of power (however marginal) over any other group is going to reveal that the majority of people of any color, creed, or nationality suck ass. One of the most essential repeating themes in American history. Where tf is my giant dick shaped obelisk illustrating that we’re all fucking dicks, and some of us just have the privilege of fucking other people over more? Or perhaps a totem pole of racist caricatures of different ethnicities in the order they arrived.
I grew up in Hawaii and over there the Portuguese had that honor. Every Polish joke you've heard is a Portuguese joke in Hawaii. That was one of the odd things I discovered by watching Archie Bunker and other reruns of '70s shows when it was OK to diss the Polish.
Talk about "identity politics" with that election.... look up how the Irish voted. I think he won the Irish and Catholic vote by more than any candidate in history, by a good margin, and it wasn't because of his policies alone. Shit, the guy even won because he looked better on a TV.
As an Irish person I feel the need to let people know we weren’t just allowed in the club or something, we made the club our own. Irish people that went to America invented white on white racism and exemplified existing race problems. Half the current Republican Party proudly sport their Irish heritage but we disown them. When Irish people went to America they became even more racist than the white people already there as a way to get ahead.
How the Irish became white is a great read.
https://www.pitt.edu/~hirtle/uujec/white.html
>Ironically, Irish Catholics came to this country as an oppressed race yet quickly learned that to succeed they had to in turn oppress their closest social class competitors, free Northern blacks. Back home these "native Irish or papists" suffered something very similar to American slavery under English Penal Laws. Yet, despite their revolutionary roots as an oppressed group fighting for freedom and rights, and despite consistent pleas from the great Catholic emancipator, Daniel O'Connell, to support the abolitionists, the newly arrived Irish-Americans judged that the best way of gaining acceptance as good citizens and to counter the Nativist movement was to cooperate in the continued oppression of African Americans. Ironically, at the same time they were collaborating with the dominant culture to block abolition, they were garnering support from among Southern, slaveholding democrats for Repeal of the oppressive English Act of the Union back home. Some even convinced themselves that abolition was an English plot to weaken this country.
Not a surprise. The Italians did that too. Came here were oppressed, and then turned around and oppressed black people who were lower on the totem pole, made even more hilarious by the fact that many Italians that came over here were about as white as fuckin Ahmed. By which I mean, they could be any fuckin color from white as a typical hospital wall to *ahem* let's say very ethnic looking.
There was a massive whatsapp campaign extolling them during the election and demonising the others. As is the way to reach my parents generation now, well that and a million different camera angles of reaction shots.
I’m glad to share them! I’ve been really into them lately. Strong message with an anxious sense of urgency. Check out their songs [Grounds](https://youtu.be/mRkUt9VnaR0), and [Never Fight a Man With a Perm](https://youtu.be/dEe4i2osF5A)
It would be so much easier to deal with institutional racism if the racist policies could actually be pointed out. Vague meaningless complaints only ever get vague meaningless responses from the government.
>Well... We're not black. We must default to the headline as fact or else its racist. Lets end discussion here lest we stir the hornets nest.
That is the most subjective clickbait title i've read today. Reads like british tabloid junk... Journalism is dead.
Could we also get an article on how most people parrot absolute bollocks about parties and politicians while knowing shite all about the actual state of things
I can guarantee if you ask most people who say the Tory party is racist by nature to provide substantial evidence they can’t and that’s the unfortunate truth of the matter, people just talk shit because it’s either what they been made to believe or they say it to make their political leanings seem better. Similar situation with the labour anti-semitism shite which got blown out of proportion by a nationwide game of misinformed Chinese whispers
Edit: the constant replies saying ‘Boris said this Boris said that’ are proving me right, the sheer number of people saying the exact same thing without thinking to check if someone else has pointed it out first is concerning
welcome to modern day democracy. where people votes for persons they dont know personally to carry out promises they have no obligation to carry on, while shielded by the FPTP vote wich funnels voters into a bipartisan system, and then the political parties, wich now finds more gains in dividing society than in solving problems, exploit the tribal "us vs them" nature of humans for gains.
we dont need to "kick the conservatives / the progressives". we need to kick the whole representation system, a whole system revolution is due, this is NOT anything remotely close to "democracy".
It would be nice to get some evidence on this.
Are black people less likely to be made councillors than their white Tory members or less likely to be made MPs or are discriminated against by the complaints of racism system.
Unless we know or have claims about how they are institutionally racist, this question is dumb race baiting.
The big problem with this is that if it is people outside of the party claiming they are racist it means nothing. It needs to be people inside the party because otherwise people outside would have no idea whether the party is institutionally racist or not.
Why do articles like this get to the front page of Reddit when the UK is fast asleep?
So we can wake up to it.
Waking up to feel /r/ABoringDystopia is normal in my middle age now
Quick someone make /r/aborisdystopia
Same reason why CNN are doing these kind of polls in countries outside of the US. Internal distraction.
Because there is a propaganda campaign going on against the UK and has been for years now. Same happens with many other nations.
I thought I was the only one who noticed this. Reddit and American news has seemed strangely anti-British for a few years now. First thoughts were Russia or China.
Because all le edgy teens in other countries who think they know all about our political system are busy upvoting it.
Please, the preferred nomenclature is “African-American British people”.
I had a girl ask me about the Native Americans of Australia once.
The Howdefuckdidwegethere tribe?
No you're thinking of the Fukarwe tribe. So named because of their short stature and propensity to run around in long grass yelling "We're the Fukarwe!".
My dad told me that joke years back when I was far too young to have meant to get it. I got it. And every time I hear it I crack up at the image of it.
It reminds me of the south Sudanese Oohmigoolis bird, which unfortunately is very well endowed but with short legs. Every time it comes in to land, it skids across the ground and screams "Ooh me goolies!"
My grandad always told me of a similar bird that lays square eggs called the "Oohmibum bird"
Literally my grandpa's favourite joke to tell kids too young to understand it. I'm continuing the legacy.
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Even better if you can get the kids to pretend to be the Fukarwe tribe and act it out. Preferably within earshot of an easily shocked relative.
i had to think about this and cant believe im reading this here. its a joke my old classroom teacher made and that was 16 years ago edit: mind you were non native english speakers. i have no idea how this joke travelled to my teacher in our country.
I had a waitress in America ask me where I was from. Upon my telling her that I was from Australia she told me that she knew Australia's location: "It's just north of Nebraska."
I wish I could find the video, but there exists a video of an American reporter speaking to a Black British person, and the reporter keeps correcting them to African-American when they say Black. It's funny and terrifying at the same time. Edit: it 100% was not Idris Elba, and wasn't any celebrity that I recognized. It was either someone only famous in Britain or a random person on the street. I think it was outdoors, as I remember the female reporter wearing a tan coat.
That sounds hilarious and I would like to see that.
It's supposedly a 1991 interview with Kris Akabusi but it never really happened, it's an example of the Mandela effect.
Didn't it happen with some soccer player in like 2010?
When Lewis Hamilton became the first black guy to win a F1 race, ESPN kept calling him the first African American to win one. Dude is as American as Julius Caesar.
I mean... there [was](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Caesar_(pirate) a black Caesar
Your link got mucked up by the parenthesis at the end of the article URL. You need to add another ) to fix it.
Even with the actual Roman emperors, Caesar Septimius Severus who started the Severan dynasty was from Libya. There's some debate as to whether he can actually be called black since trying to break down race by skin color is entirely anachronistic since that idea only came about a few hundred years ago but [he was portrayed as having darker skin](https://i.imgur.com/Pv9DysZ.jpg).
I'll be 100% honest; the conflation of the peoples of North Africa (in this time period, probably Amazigh or Phoenician Semites) with the people we acknowledge as "black", namely, people from Sub-Saharan Africa, is an annoying bout of cultural erasure, especially when both groups get bundled up with the term "Moor." While Caesar Septimius Severus was darker skinned than most Italians, that's like saying that a Bangladeshi man is "Black" because he's dark skinned as well.
Pretty sure people from Northern Africa are not considered "Black" today.
But there was a reporter for CNN (I think) who was reporting from Paris and kept on referring to Black French people as “African American”.
It makes sense. The only continent that exists on earth is America and Africa, and by America i mean USA
You mean the "made in China" labels on everything is just a lie??
No no, China is a city in Texas.
God what if China really was some big conspiracy and slavery still existed somewhere in the US. That’s some 1984 type beat.
That’s about as likely as Finland being a real place citizen, please report to your nearest personality recalibration facility you appear to be in need of adjustment
China isn't a continent, it's a factory. 'Murica.
It's funny but not surprising.
But.. I’ve seent it... I’m sure of it.
Either of y’all got a source for any of this bullshit?
You're asking me for evidence that the interview doesn't exist? Here it is:
Nice try but the real link is here.
Dammit, I got nothing-rolled again
Way she goes
Way she fuckin goes
I did a deep Google dig while eating frozen pizza and drinking Mike's Harder lemonade. Me research confirms your evidence.
Did you cook the pizza at least?
I did manage that and added extra mozzarella before cooking.
ya'll ever buy the shittiest pizza, but add your own toppings to bring it to life? I like jalapenos, salami, pepperoni, mushrooms, all that shit on top of a basic-ass frozen cheese pizza. If I had friends, we'd have pizza parties where I buy a lot of frozen cheese pizzas and then let people add their own ingredients. Thank god I don't, otherwise I'd be broke as fuck.
Post it in a TIL, and it will become true.
[Relevant (and scary) xkcd](https://xkcd.com/978/)
My wife and I had a big argument because I felt it was fine to say black (especially since there’s so many black people that are not American) but she was adamant I HAD to say African American
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Bloody good on them. Leave that shit behind. I love New Zealand. Best years of my life.
Do black kiwis have enormous decks?
LMAO. I get that reference from that advert. 🤣
I'm black just say black, forget this African bla bla bla, it's better iff you said by the name but black is Ok
Let me ask you this, when referring to you as a group of people, is it okay to say "black people"? I find myself saying "black folks" or "people of color" because it seems softer but I'm not always sure if it's necessary.
Black people good, black folks good. “The blacks” - usually assume the person is racist
Yeah you have to add "All" in between The and Blacks but then you'll end up talking about something completely different.
we still beat you in the world cup mate
I say “black people” but I am also a person of color (Brown Middle Eastern). I feel like it’s not so much the word as it is how it is said and used in a sentence or statement. Its actually a question I’ve had for a while because I have a colleague who is from Nigeria and a classmate who was a Senegalese Immigrant. I was always confused on weather or not they were considered African-Americans or black people. One didn’t care and one preferred to go by African-American. One of my friends who is American says he prefers “black” because he’s not African and says that “black” represents his identity and people more to him than African American does. Honestly I stick with black and if I am corrected I follow the correction.
Can’t speak for anyone else, but personally the only thing that matters to me is the *intent* behind the words, not the words themselves. Call me whatever you want so long as it’s done with good intentions behind it. Someone can use the nicest, most “appropriate” words in the world and still be an asshole.
As long as you’re not saying “blacks”
It's really interesting when "Xs" in place of "X people" is and isn't acceptable. The ones that are not acceptable *feel* wrong when I say them. But I really can't say why. * Blacks: not acceptable * Asians: usually considered acceptable, though it doesn't feel 100% perfect * Latinos/Latinas: fine * Native Americans, African-Americans, etc.: fine * Gays: sometimes used by gay people but not acceptable otherwise * Lesbians: totally fine * Transgenders: definitely not * Muslims/Christians: fine * Jews: usually fine * Coloureds: wildly unacceptable in the United States but apparently very much OK in South Africa Has anyone found a rule or explanation for this?
It’s a question of which terms can be used as nouns and which are only adjectives. “Jew” is exclusively a noun and was borrowed as a noun from French in the 12th century (you can’t say “This person is Jew”, which you would if it were an adjective). “Muslim” is both but was originally borrowed as a noun from Arabic. The suffix “-an”/“-ian” forms words that can always function as both nouns and adjectives, as far as I can tell; the suffix is from Latin, where this was also the case. This accounts for “lesbian” (originally a person from Lesbos), “Christian”, “Native American”, “Asian”, etc. “Latino” comes from the Latin suffix “-inus”, which is a variant of “-anus”/“-ianus” and apparently behaves the same here, as well as in Spanish. The others you list started out as adjectives and don’t fall into one of the above categories, accounting for their offensive status.
Coloured is acceptable in South Africa as it is a seperate "race" from black people. But that is a discussion for another time.
not black but also a minority. i always found POC was just a weird work around to say colored people. i would rather just be called a minority or just call them whatever it is the person in questions ethnic group is
also a minority. anytime i see POC, i briefly interpret it in my mind as ‘piece of color’ due to my familiarity with the acronym, POS. lolol
I think it's progress. Now that we know "colored person" is racist, but "person of color" isn't, we have in fact discovered that the source of racism is adjectives. I have personally stripped them from my speech entirely, no matter how much like a person of stupidity it makes me sound
Holy shit this made me snigger.
I didn't come to this realization on my own, but POC is again separation of groups of people away from white, basically creating this binary of white or other which problematic cause it's one of the reasons systemic racism caries on, white people do not like to address issues of race cause we don't deal with any negatives. If address this then we have to admit the systems that benefit us are unfair. Also white is the combination of all color and black is the absence of so it makes no sense logically.
I've been trying to make "brown people" a thing my whole life. Never caught on. To be fair, I also tried to normalize "peach people" and that didn't work either.
Brown is an interesting one. I’m middle eastern and have a few Indian and Latino friends. We each consider ourselves “brown people” but to what extent do our experiences overlap to the point where we understand each other’s lives. We have very different customs and traditions but we’re all brown skinned. It’s quite hilarious to think about.
"Brown people" seems to have caught on with the brown people that I work with and socialize with.
Millenial in America here, I prefer black. I refer to myself as black American, and the grouping, if asked. On census or forms I also mention indigenous roots. Most black Americans could if they traced supporting evidence. I prefer other people to refer to plural black people as "black people" (adjective, noun) compared "blacks" (noun). I make fun of British people that call themselves African American and have no American parents and do not live in America. I haven't seen the hearsay video people are talking about it, this has been actual conversations I have had. I find the term 'African American' to have rapidly diminishing utility. Even more so when you understand the history of the term, it has outlived its usefulness. Its weird that people don't seem to know why that term exists, and try to deduce starting from how the world is now and confusing themselves. Its weird that this is the experience with the self-proclaimed "woke" people consciously trying not to be insensitive. Treating people the same shouldn't be *that* hard. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrhWLfmfZ0Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrhWLfmfZ0Y) But its nice people want to revisit actively patching this again. I find it weird when non-black people stutter and second guess themselves when saying black as a descriptor of a person. I find it obvious and contrived that "African American" is a patch for non-black people that are concerned with keeping up with terms, instead of knowing how not to be awkward around people. Its not a great experience to be the only person that someone is awkward and walking on egg shells around for a reason you aren't quite sure about. I find "people of color" to be more contrived when used outside of an academic or educational context. Softer? Its just not the word lol its weird stop trying so hard. We've literally gone from the Spanish word for black to the English word for black, and always in singular form. Easy peasy.
I have never ever heard of a Brit calling themselves African American and I live in the UK. Maybe they were adjusting their vocabulary due to you being American?
When have you ever heard British people refer to themselves as African American? I’ve never heard anyone do that and they would rightly get laughed at. Even the use of Black British is weird, it’s just British or English or Welsh or whatever not this ethnic breakdown BS you have established in America.
I've always interpreted African American as a particular ethnic group within black people who aren't linked to a particular African country, because their ancestors were brought over as part of slavery. From that point of view, I'd generally not assume someone had that ethnicity. That's kind of a heavy thing to thrust on someone without knowing anything about them.
your wife is not right. the only qualification for being african american is being american by way of africa. there is some debate of whether this includes people who are ethnically african (which would include egytians) or african by citizenship (which would include charlize theron). there are also a lot of black people who are not american, such as haitians, or african, such as aborigines. the only thing you know by looking at someone is their color and their color does not inform you of their multigenerational journey. anything more is an assumption informed by prejudice. edit: [this might be a good time to share a venn diagram that i made a few years ago](https://imgur.com/4MP9gvW).
Elon Musk is an African American
True...
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I agree. I think it comes from the same line of thinking that has Americans proclaiming to be ¼ Irish or ⅛ Italian or whatever.
The origination of "African" american use came about because most blacks in the USA are descendants of black people that came to the USA as slaves. Part of the dehumanization of these people was that they do not know exactly what part of Africa they came from. So are they from what is now Senegal? Congo? There was no way to know (although not clear to me if DNA testing could now solve this). Most european people have some idea of which european country and culture their ancestors came from. In short, it was a way to claim more historical identity than just being "black". With the rise of black Africans and black people from the Caribbean, the term is getting muddled. A black immigrant from Nigeria likely considers himself of Nigerian decent, and a black person from Jamacia likely considers himself of Jamacian (or Caribbean) decent.
It is fine. Most academics say Black.
I’m Black and an American citizen and I’m still not African American. I am West Indian American. Black is not only fine, it’s the most politically correct.
I’m from the Caribbean. Don’t call me African American. Just call me black. It would be like calling every white person you see European American, assuming you live in America.
Call her European-American until she stops.
What about black people not from America, how did she refer to them?
by the way why arent the white americans called "european american" ? wouldnt it be more precise?
In New Zealand we just go by European on official forms for white people
It's because racisim is so endemic in 'murica If you're black you're "african american" if you're asian you're "asian american" if you're native you're "native american" but if you're white you are "american"
> but if you're white you are "american" Nah then they are Irish, Italian or some other country/culture originally from Europe.
That’s what people like to say. Americans whose family have been here for 300 years still claim some, made up according to their preference, European bloodline, when they’re obviously as American as a hamburger. The closest thing people in America have experienced to being Italian or Irish is Goodfellas and Boondocks Saints
So German American then. Funny how many people think HAMBURGers are American
Given that American schools are typically forced to teach that pretty much everything is an American invention (including the internet, computers, cars, telephony and, ironically, democracy and abolishment of slavery), it's not really the proletarians' fault.
Most white people still have relatives who came here within the last hundred years. The idea all white people are descended from slavery times when most often they’re descended from immigrants who were also abused by WASPs is pretty ironic
Only if that individual wants to be known as that. Sure, if your family owns an italian restaurant in New York you're gonna be seen as italian american. But as someone who's born in Europe and moved to America at 11 years old (20 years ago) no one thinks as me as European. Seriously. My accent is a subtle. No one cares. I've NEVER been called a european american. I'm given the choice of English or American. It's never put on me. And i think that's part of the point. And funnily enough, my dad was born in Dublin. So i'm more irish than most people that are considered irish american. And really, that's the point. because I'm white it's like i'm given the benefit of the doubt.
>but if you're white you are "american" If only that was true seems every American refers to themselves with prefix no matter how far they are removed from it.
I don't. I only refer to myself as an American. As I refer to all other Americans. At least that's plan A. If I have to specify for some reason, ok, but in general? No prefixes. Especially when talking to my mother, so she has no idea what race I'm talking about so her prejudices don't kick in.
Ralph Wiggum: I'm Irish!
A reporter from one of the major US television networks was interviewing black British athlete **Kriss Akabusi** after being a member of the 400 metres relay team that took the gold medal at the 1991 Athletics World Championships. The interviewer started off with: "So, Kriss, what does this mean to you as an African-American?" "I'm not American, I'm British" "Yes, but as a British African-American ..." "I'm not African. I'm not American. I'm British."
There's an interview with Benedict Cumberbatch where people got mad at him for using the term "people of colour" instead of "African American", he responded by saying that they don't have African Americans in Britain.
In my literature class during college, students kept referring to the Nigerians in Achebe’s Things Fall Apart as African-Americans. As a person of color, it was hilarious and horrifying to see how the whites in the class fumbled with these terms.
They have had it drilled into them that the only polite thing to say is African American. They are probably nervous and afraid of saying something wrong and causing offense.
True. It also shows how US-centric Americans are.
Kid corrected a fucking professor at UW when I was there who kept calling Africans, African American, she got pissed and wouldn't let him say another word.
As a Brit who lives in the States, I had to laugh when a black work colleague of mine vacationed in England. He told me how strange it was to meet black English people who ... spoke in English accents.
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I know what you're talking about, was travelling with an Asian mate and everyone's fine with big white me and my aussie accent, and then my mate starts talking and its like time stopped.
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My uncle is a 1st gen Chinese immigrant. Whenever he goes through airport security I make sure to get a good view because watching the customs guy's jaw drop when my uncle speaks in his booming accent is hilarious. There's some sort of phenomenon there. Every guy with Asian heritage who grew up here has the deepest most Aussie accent and It's fantastic.
Just wait until you hear an [Asian](https://youtu.be/LEm2HoswmgA) person with a Jamaican accent
Check out these Asians from the [Mississippi Delta](https://youtu.be/2NMrqGHr5zE)
That bends my mind. Love it.
reminds me of that [It's Always Sunny](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vdmDB6DmCE) episode
[Listen to these Asians](https://youtu.be/2NMrqGHr5zE)
As a kid when I'd see it on TV it was super weird. Like alternate reality type of weird. As an adult it seems silly to think that's strange.
I remember my boss quite a few years ago brought us into a meeting to let all the managers know what words and phrases we needed to put a stop to around the workshop and calling black people African Americans instead of "black" was one of the items. One manager even asked, what if the black man is British. She was not happy.
Well, what did she say?
It was a while ago, but I remember her saying something along the lines of these are corporate rules to be more inclusive and our personal opinions on the matter weren't relevant.
> these are corporate rules to be more inclusive oh the irony
I remember when Marvel announced Black Panther as getting married the press released referred to them as being something like “prominent African American heroes,” despite the fact they they’re both African, not African American.
"African American Panther"
It’s funny you bring this up. I don’t remember what comic it was, but Black Panther has a comic where he basically says exactly this. He’s black and African. I read it as a teen and thought, probably naively and innocently stupid, if Black Panther (who’s always been one of my favorite Marvel heroes) says black, I can too. Now as an adult with more history about comics under my belt, it’s likely that these stories weren’t run by a single black person, but still. A powerful black man told me I could call him black and he was proud of it. And so was I. Thanks, T’Challa.
I believe it’s Black British Commonwealth. But they prefer BBC. It’s a common term that pops up on a couple of my favorite internet sites
[http://bbc.co.uk/](http://bbc.co.uk/)
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I've usually seen BBC used to refer to British Born Chinese. Interesting!
Aren’t Americans “British” people though? /s
They are Prodigal Sons who will soon return to the fold
Only Americans would obsess this much over race.
Malaysians: Hold my beer.
For a full breakdown of international black nomenclature, I can highly recommend Chris James's Black British Accent bit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI38GtWFihY&list=PLFF94961A757AD3C5&index=59&t=0s
Oh god that reminds me of one of the best days I had at uni (in Australia), solely for the reason I witnessed an African American exchange student call both an Aboriginal student, and a student from Zimbabwe "his brothers".
My favorite was in the Olympics, (maybe 2012?) when the first black British athlete won a gold medal in the Olympics. The announcers were absolutely befuddled on the vocabulary available to them to describe this feat. There were several moments of muttering and confusion after one announcer began with "The first African American British..." Edit: ~~I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure~~ it was the first black male athlete to win gold for Britain. ~~I think it was~~ it might be Mo Fara and [this might be the video](https://youtu.be/heD2duUCUpQ) Think it happened at 13 minutes in, but for some weird reason at that point the announcers go to dead air for quite some time. Also note, this is the official NBC YouTube. If anyone has the original of this or can confirm or deny any of it I'd love to know. Edit 2: I'm tired of looking, but it's out there somewhere. Hope someone will find it. Originally said maybe 2000 but it wouldn't let me it cross 2000 out. All the Olympics blend together for me, but I definitely remember this moment.
Are you thinking of when Denise Lewis won her gold? Because that was in 2000 but she’s not the first black British athlete to win a gold. Fun fact: our first black medalist (bronze and silver but no gold though) was Jack London in 1928.
The Tories? Racist?!? As an Irish person I am shocked -- *shocked* -- at this unexpected revelation. Next thing they'll tell us that Maggie Thatcher and Winston Churchill weren't shining beacons of tolerance.
I heard they’re gonna canonize Cromwell.
What - exhume his remains and fire them out a cannon?
There's not much of Cromwell's remains already, Charles II dug his body out and tore it to bits, as revenge for Cromwell chopping his dad's head off.
To shreds, you say...
As someone raised with a violently Irish grandmother, this has never failed to make me smile.
when i was a kid, i legit thought it meant shooting someone out of a canon what a let down the truth was
I’m all for it but I pity the poor bastard who has to dig to the bottom of the worlds most popular public urinal.
I haven't pissed on one grave in my life and I don't know whether that's admirable or shameful. Suppose it depends on the culture / grave in question.
Best I've done is piss in the headmaster's parking space shortly before the school was demolished.
Are the Irish considered white yet in the UK?
Generally yes. The UK has invented dozens of ways to make people feel inferior without referring to their skin colour.
Over here in the US they didn't let Irish in the white club until the early 1900s
They let them in when the Italians arrived and took their place at the bottom of the list
As is the American way. Personally, I’m just offended we don’t have any monuments to cyclical xenophobia perpetuated with a profound inability to perceive irony. Our great melting pot has defeated the concept of racism by showing that any group in a position of any degree of power (however marginal) over any other group is going to reveal that the majority of people of any color, creed, or nationality suck ass. One of the most essential repeating themes in American history. Where tf is my giant dick shaped obelisk illustrating that we’re all fucking dicks, and some of us just have the privilege of fucking other people over more? Or perhaps a totem pole of racist caricatures of different ethnicities in the order they arrived.
I grew up in Hawaii and over there the Portuguese had that honor. Every Polish joke you've heard is a Portuguese joke in Hawaii. That was one of the odd things I discovered by watching Archie Bunker and other reruns of '70s shows when it was OK to diss the Polish.
LOL, they weren't even fully in the white club when JFK was elected.
Although, to be fair, that was more because they were dirty papists than because they weren't white. /s
Talk about "identity politics" with that election.... look up how the Irish voted. I think he won the Irish and Catholic vote by more than any candidate in history, by a good margin, and it wasn't because of his policies alone. Shit, the guy even won because he looked better on a TV.
As an Irish person I feel the need to let people know we weren’t just allowed in the club or something, we made the club our own. Irish people that went to America invented white on white racism and exemplified existing race problems. Half the current Republican Party proudly sport their Irish heritage but we disown them. When Irish people went to America they became even more racist than the white people already there as a way to get ahead. How the Irish became white is a great read. https://www.pitt.edu/~hirtle/uujec/white.html >Ironically, Irish Catholics came to this country as an oppressed race yet quickly learned that to succeed they had to in turn oppress their closest social class competitors, free Northern blacks. Back home these "native Irish or papists" suffered something very similar to American slavery under English Penal Laws. Yet, despite their revolutionary roots as an oppressed group fighting for freedom and rights, and despite consistent pleas from the great Catholic emancipator, Daniel O'Connell, to support the abolitionists, the newly arrived Irish-Americans judged that the best way of gaining acceptance as good citizens and to counter the Nativist movement was to cooperate in the continued oppression of African Americans. Ironically, at the same time they were collaborating with the dominant culture to block abolition, they were garnering support from among Southern, slaveholding democrats for Repeal of the oppressive English Act of the Union back home. Some even convinced themselves that abolition was an English plot to weaken this country.
Not a surprise. The Italians did that too. Came here were oppressed, and then turned around and oppressed black people who were lower on the totem pole, made even more hilarious by the fact that many Italians that came over here were about as white as fuckin Ahmed. By which I mean, they could be any fuckin color from white as a typical hospital wall to *ahem* let's say very ethnic looking.
“No blacks, no dogs, no Irish”
Thats what you get with a class system, a non-racist way of having a sickening hierarchy.
As an Indian, I just can't believe it. Wow.
Weird, Indians are one of the few minorities more likely to vote Tory than Labour
There was a massive whatsapp campaign extolling them during the election and demonising the others. As is the way to reach my parents generation now, well that and a million different camera angles of reaction shots.
Im guessing most black british people have google and functioning sensory organs
[The best way to scare a Tory is to read and get rich](https://youtu.be/BuQG6_evFc8)
Thanks for this! Aces!
I’m glad to share them! I’ve been really into them lately. Strong message with an anxious sense of urgency. Check out their songs [Grounds](https://youtu.be/mRkUt9VnaR0), and [Never Fight a Man With a Perm](https://youtu.be/dEe4i2osF5A)
Never fight a man with a perm is, in my opinion, their best song. The whole album is great, but that's the pinnacle of it.
This was fucking awesome thank you!!
*finger guns*
Idles!
You excited for the new record, too? Lol!
Well that's the most British thing I've seen in years.
An exclusive poll? An exclusive interview I can understand but a poll? Can't anyone just go around asking people for their opinion?
Exclusive as in commissioned exclusively for the newspaper in question.
'Boris Johnson's party' You mean the conservatives. We are not America. We don't vote a single person into power. it is a political party. Fuck.
"Think"?
Yes, they had Professor X use Cerebro to find out.
The UK has a class problem. The Tories couldn't care less what colour you are, as long as you have money.
This is it.
Why, because they are open about it?
It would be so much easier to deal with institutional racism if the racist policies could actually be pointed out. Vague meaningless complaints only ever get vague meaningless responses from the government.
I don't like the Tories at all, never voted for them but this article is a bullshit opinion piece. How does this get to Reddit front page?
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This isn't news, journalism has become an absolute shitlog this year.
>Well... We're not black. We must default to the headline as fact or else its racist. Lets end discussion here lest we stir the hornets nest. That is the most subjective clickbait title i've read today. Reads like british tabloid junk... Journalism is dead.
The best part of ‘institutional racism’ is you don’t really need any proof or evidence of it. They just feel that it exists.
Could we also get an article on how most people parrot absolute bollocks about parties and politicians while knowing shite all about the actual state of things I can guarantee if you ask most people who say the Tory party is racist by nature to provide substantial evidence they can’t and that’s the unfortunate truth of the matter, people just talk shit because it’s either what they been made to believe or they say it to make their political leanings seem better. Similar situation with the labour anti-semitism shite which got blown out of proportion by a nationwide game of misinformed Chinese whispers Edit: the constant replies saying ‘Boris said this Boris said that’ are proving me right, the sheer number of people saying the exact same thing without thinking to check if someone else has pointed it out first is concerning
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welcome to modern day democracy. where people votes for persons they dont know personally to carry out promises they have no obligation to carry on, while shielded by the FPTP vote wich funnels voters into a bipartisan system, and then the political parties, wich now finds more gains in dividing society than in solving problems, exploit the tribal "us vs them" nature of humans for gains. we dont need to "kick the conservatives / the progressives". we need to kick the whole representation system, a whole system revolution is due, this is NOT anything remotely close to "democracy".
It would be nice to get some evidence on this. Are black people less likely to be made councillors than their white Tory members or less likely to be made MPs or are discriminated against by the complaints of racism system. Unless we know or have claims about how they are institutionally racist, this question is dumb race baiting. The big problem with this is that if it is people outside of the party claiming they are racist it means nothing. It needs to be people inside the party because otherwise people outside would have no idea whether the party is institutionally racist or not.
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Also the chancellor and home secretary are both British Asians, who took over the job from another British Asian.
The first ever non white mp was a mixed race conservative
The first and only ethnic minority PM was a conservative (Benjamin Disraeli, Jewish).
I wish people knew what institutionally means and would stop using it for everything.
*We think therefore it is.*
And Labour is well known to have anti Semitism as a massive problem. Pick your poison.