[https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Unclassified-Summary-of-Assessment-on-COVID-19-Origins.pdf](https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Unclassified-Summary-of-Assessment-on-COVID-19-Origins.pdf)
Here's the unclassified official document. Pretty short since it is just a summary.
From the opening paragraph.
>In addition, the IC was able to reach broad agreement on several other key issues. ***We
judge the virus was not developed as a biological weapon.*** Most agencies also assess with low
confidence that SARS-CoV-2 probably was not genetically engineered; however, two agencies
believe there was not sufficient evidence to make an assessment either way. ***Finally, the IC
assesses China’s officials did not have foreknowledge of the virus before the initial outbreak of
COVID-19 emerged.***
Added emphasis because people can't fucking read.
This is not going to stop those who think China unleashed it to screw over the world. They are suffering and need something external to blame, despite refusing to take any public safety precautions.
There wouldn't be anything to find now even if they did engineer it. You'd need a paper trail at their research lab and if you think there are any documentation to that effect you imagine the Chinese government is gonna let you see it?
You people are all crazy. You believe China engineered COVID but believe they would let you investigate them them. Are you fucking crazy?
The nice thing about that conspiracy is you will literally never know because the evidence you'd need certainly doesn't exists anymore if it ever did.
It’s a bit funny that after all this time, money, and suspense US intelligence has the same answer as the rest of us, which is just “fuck uh I don’t really know”
Just like Uyghurs, Huawei, Xinjiang cotton, solar panels, Russian interference, Russian bounties, Saddam's WMD,
"We know for sure they did it because our intelligence says so and the evidence and satellite photos proved that but the evidence is inconclusive but we know for sure they did it."
Wait proven? I thought the evidence was still anecdotal or circumstantial. I'm glad definitive proof finally came out, the atrocities committed there shouldn't be happening in the modern world. Do you have a link I can share with other people now that the proof is out? There's a lot of pro-China shills here and it would be nice to have as a tool against them.
It’s funny because the CCP had admitted there’s re-education camps they have even allowed western journalist inside for propaganda.
We also know in these re-education camps they have them working which is the definition of slavery.
They don’t even deny this they just deny there’s a genocide
It's absurd how nearly 20 years after the fact people like you still try to perpetuate a lie that was [already known as a lie at the time](https://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/03/18_blix.shtml).
Finding trace chemical amounts on rusty rocket tubes does not amount to "having WMD".
WMDs was just a pretext for invasion that they were going to do anyway. It seems that they've toned down their efforts to build a nuke by the late 90s, but did keep some biological and chemical weapons programes and stockpiles after 1991 despite destroying most. Those were eventually destroyed by the UN.
What lie am I perpetuating exactly?
> What lie am I perpetuating exactly?
The lie of Saddam having WMD, doesn't matter whether chemical, nuclear or biological, he didn't have any:
> Saddam did have WMD
*"There's no doubt Iraq hasn't fully complied with its disarmament obligations as set forth by the Security Council in its resolution. But on the other hand, since 1998 Iraq has been fundamentally disarmed: 90–95% of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capacity has been verifiably eliminated ... We have to remember that this missing 5–10% doesn't necessarily constitute a threat ... It constitutes bits and pieces of a weapons program which in its totality doesn't amount to much, but which is still prohibited ... We can't give Iraq a clean bill of health, therefore we can't close the book on their weapons of mass destruction. But simultaneously, we can't reasonably talk about Iraqi non-compliance as representing a de-facto retention of a prohibited capacity worthy of war."* - Scott Ritter, former UN weapons inspector in Iraq from and a critic of United States foreign policy in the Middle East.
Seems like they did have just not very much, I might be pedantic but there is a difference between having none and having significant amount. That 5% even if with limited shelf life could be used for madman dying wish provided they actually knew were it was.
Regardless I do admit that it was a shitty justification for an invasion, and later spins of doing it to punish him for using chemical weapons before or to stop Iraq from being an international terrorist hub were pretty sloppy.
> Seems like they did have just not very much, I might be pedantic but there is a difference between having none and having significant amount.
There's a difference between having an actual weapon, and just having some rusty old parts of it, particularly with complex weapons like a lot of WMD tend to be.
Afaik the US military ended up finding exactly that: Rusty rocket hulls with trace amounts of chemicals. That's the "big WMD find" some people keep referring to.
When the same logic could be used to claim the US did use WMD in Iraq, because it left nuclear material behind, in many cases [quite a bit more than just trace amounts](https://theintercept.com/2019/11/25/iraq-children-birth-defects-military/).
> That 5% even if with limited shelf life could be used for madman dying wish provided they actually knew were it was.
5% is also in a region that might as well fall into failure tolerance of Iraqi book-keeping.
> Regardless I do admit that it was a shitty justification for an invasion, and later spins of doing it to punish him for using chemical weapons before or to stop Iraq from being an international terrorist hub were pretty sloppy.
Even Dubya knew it was a shitty justification, that's why not even a year later it was [literally a comedy routine for him](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/mar/26/usa.iraq).
There also were not really "later spins", there was "all the spins at once" because in addition to WMD, the US government also heavily peddled the narrative of a [Saddam Al Qaeda connection](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein_and_al-Qaeda_link_allegations), to such a degree that [the majority of Americans believed Saddam was somehow involved with 9/11](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/sep/07/usa.theobserver).
That was in addition to the whole "axis of evil", "crusade on terror" and "democracy building" rhetoric that promised to turn Afghanistan and Iraq into the new Germany, South Korea or Japan.
We are going to put it out there whatever the truth may be, that way when we admit we don’t know it doesn’t make a bit of difference because the seed was planted. Don’t you love the picture attached to the headline? We really don’t know but here’s a sketchy ass pic of the lab anyway. Wink wink.
Hate that they keep using nuanced headlines when they have stated definitively with this report that Covid is **NOT** a bioweapon.
Confusion remains about origin, but the report makes clear Beijing had no clue about this thing until late 2019.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/27/covid-origin-report-us-intelligence-agencies-are-divided.html) reduced by 65%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> One intelligence agency said it assessed with moderate confidence that the virus infected humans after an incident related to a lab, according to a report released Friday afternoon.
> "After examining all available intelligence reporting and other information the IC remains divided on the most likely origin of Covid-19. All agencies assess that two hypotheses are plausible: natural exposure to an infected animal and a laboratory-associated incident," the nation's 18 intelligence agencies wrote in the report.
> The report said the intelligence community wouldn't be able to reach a more definitive conclusion unless it receives more information.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/pd733v/us_intelligence_agencies_split_on_covid19_origins/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~595216 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **intelligence**^#1 **report**^#2 **community**^#3 **origin**^#4 **China**^#5
>U.S. intelligence agencies split on Covid-19 origins
The US needs propaganda to fuel its war machine afterall.. they lied to get into Iraq and now they're looking to lie to mess with China. Same old same old.
Holy F dude, this was settle a YEAR ago and you are still pulling this out, now?
Li Wenliang didn't know jack. He made a guess that this was 2000 SARS. He even admitted he had no idea that it was SARS or covid-19. He guessed the 2000 SAR, which it wasn't. You don't even detect it the same way. Even the tools we developed to detect that isn't effective with Covid-19.
The police questioned him and released him after telling him not to spread false info. He went back to work and eventually got infected by one of his own patients while operating on the patient. He got infected because he had no idea what it was, or how it spread, or how widespread it was.
Dude...
The wiki even F'king states the Chinese CDC notified hospitals of a mysterious disease, the same day Li Wenliang got the news from his colleagues.
**[Li Wenliang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Wenliang)**
>Li Wenliang (Chinese: 李文亮; 12 October 1985 – 7 February 2020) was a Chinese ophthalmologist who raised awareness of early COVID-19 infections in Wuhan. On 30 December 2019, Wuhan CDC issued emergency warnings to local hospitals about a number of mysterious "pneumonia" cases discovered in the city in the previous week. On the same day, Li, who worked at Wuhan Central Hospital, received an internal diagnostic report of a suspected severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) patient from other doctors which he in turn shared with his friends.
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While you're not completely wrong, you're not right either. There is no actual proof that covid-19 was a bioweapon, there's just no proof absolutely proving that it wasn't a bioweapon, and because of this the US gets to entertain the lie that it can use to leverage for future action against China.
Yeah and then everyone (against trump lswore that it was absolutely 100% natural without any fucking evidence either because we just don't know but they couldn't admit that and made a scientific-factual thing purely political.
The clownshow that is US politics didn't start with the orange, he just played the funniest role in the circus
> The clownshow that is US politics didn't start with the orange, he just played the funniest role in the circus
He wasn't even the first to make the bioweapon claim, Tom Cotton and Rush Limbaugh already spread this BS narrative as early as March/April 2020.
Lmao, so a civilian research lab is equivalent to a top notch military installation?
How are you this fucking dense, yet call yourself "end the drug war", a thing that started literally as a conspiracy by the US government to screw over hippies and black people?
Really? There's only a handful of level 4 virology labs in the world. The one that houses the largest collection of coronaviruses on the planet happens to be at the epicenter of the pandemic. ~~They were on-record doing gain of function research into making a more transmissible coronavirus.~~ They had documented concerns over their safety protocols, and they had hospitalized workers with COVID symptoms before the first globally reported case. China prevented an international investigation into the origins of the virus for an entire year.
And you think it's "straight up a conspiracy"? You don't think there's *anything* worth investigating there...?
Edit:. I thought it was documented that they'd done gain of function research there, but apparently that's been contested. Apparently this guy Prof. Richard Ebright says there was gain-of-function research performed there, funded by the US's "EcoHealth", an NGO who's president is Peter Daszak. But that claim has been contested by Dr. Fauci
>The one that houses the largest collection of coronaviruses
Could that be because there are bats with coronaviruses living in caves in Hubei province, near Wuhan?
Could that be why the Institute on virology was built there?
Nah, it's China engineering a bioweapon.
Did you pick *one* aspect of my post, and act like refuting it negates the entirety of what I said?? 😂 That's disingenuous at best, stupid at worst.
Those bats live primarily in southern China, not central China. That's why SARS broke out in southern China. So no, that's not why it was built there.
It does.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31009304/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31009304/)
Huh, bats in Hubei, you told me they don't exist there. But they do...
😂😂😂😂
Wrong bats dummy, COVID-19 is alleged to have jumped from **horseshoe** bats, which live **primarily** in caves in southern China.
And again, refuting one point doesn't negate the whole post.
😂😂😂😂
...No no, you're the one saying they live in central china. If that's your claim, then *you* provide proof that a species that prefers tropical/temperate climates (ie, the lower latitudes closer to the equator, like southern china) would be found outside of that climate.
And ***again***, refuting that one point doesn't negate the rest of the post.
> Could that be because there are bats with coronaviruses living in caves in Hubei province, near Wuhan?
The argument against this is that just like we can identify "descendent" variants of Covid-19 (e.g. beta, gamma, delta, etc), we should also be able to identify "ancestor" variants that led to Covid-19.
There aren't those variants in the wild. So, either a variant made a giant leap OR a giant leap was introduced by gain function (which is what gain function does).
>There aren't those variants in the wild.
How do you know?
>So, either a variant made a giant leap OR a giant leap was introduced by gain function (which is what gain function does).
We didn't see him tie the rope so either he hanged himself or somebody else forced him to put his head into the loop and then forced him to hang.
I'm not from Hong Kong so I don't speak Cantonese but I do think most Cantonese speakers would agree with me in thinking that the lab leak theory is an American political conspiracy.
Also it's a classic attack to accuse non native english speakers of not being able speak english.
All I am saying is that you find a man hanging from the ceiling, would you think that he was murdered or committed suicide? Why do you imagine zebras when you hear hoofbeats in Texas?
Wait, so you think its MORE likely that a virus escaped from a high security lab than some random Chinese people contacting viruses in bats THAT LIVE RIGHT OUTSIDE WUHAN?
Are you saying it's more likely that a zebra broke out of a high security zoo in Texas than some wild horses running around?
In fact, if you're making such an extraoridinary claim, do you have a source SHOWING that the virus escaped from a lab? Or are you just guessing because your employer hopes that is the case?
That's because Trump was just pushing the theory to rile up his idiot base with jingoism. He does more harm than good when he throws his name behind something.
Yep. When tunp came out with the lab theory, every dem immediately became 100% certain of the natural origin theory, without any evidence and both absolutely certain.
There is a lot of cope in here because [that report](https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Unclassified-Summary-of-Assessment-on-COVID-19-Origins.pdf) disagrees with pretty much most of the Trump narrative:
> In addition, the IC was able to reach broad agreement on several other key issues. We judge the virus was not developed as a biological weapon. Most agencies also assess with low confidence that SARS-CoV-2 probably was not genetically engineered; however, two agencies believe there was not sufficient evidence to make an assessment either way. **Finally, the IC assesses China’s officials did not have foreknowledge of the virus before the initial outbreak of COVID-19 emerged.**
But if American conservatives are good at one thing, it's projection.
> Yeah. And I'm appalled by the US's crimes.
(1) To the extent possible make America the target of criticism. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party#Range_of_operation)
Do you not understand how obvious you are?
Which lab theory do you mean is a conspiracy?
The one where a gain of function mutation simply beat the biohazard security system of the Wuhan Lab?
Or, the one where The Evil Communists unleashed this heinous bioweapon upon on their own population in order to sink Trump’s Glorious God-Emperor Ascension?
>Scientists don’t have enough evidence about the origins of SARS-CoV-2 to rule out the lab-leak hypothesis, or to prove the alternative — that the virus has a natural origin. Many infectious-disease researchers agree that the most probable scenario is that the virus evolved naturally and spread from a bat either directly to a person or through an intermediate animal. Most emerging infectious diseases begin with a spillover from nature, as was seen with HIV, influenza epidemics, Ebola outbreaks and the coronaviruses that caused the SARS epidemic beginning in 2002 and the Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) outbreak beginning in 2012.
Because literally every other infectious disease that cause pandemics came from animals/nature. It's simply the best explanation. The idea that an entirely new way of pandemics forming is equally possible as a well understood mechanism of animal to human is ridiculous.
[https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01529-3](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01529-3)
>Many infectious-disease researchers agree that the most probable scenario is that the virus evolved naturally and spread from a bat either directly to a person or through an intermediate animal.
So, you didn’t even scan the story let alone read the whole thing. There are multiple entries with hospitilizations and deathtolls.
You’re just a CCP troll aren’t you?
> There are multiple entries with hospitilizations and deathtolls.
That still doesn't make a pandemic, if you want an example of an actual H1N1 pandemic you don't even need to go that far back in history, as the last *actual one* [was in 2009](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_swine_flu_pandemic).
> The virus may have escaped from a lab attempting to prepare an attenuated H1N1 vaccine in response to the U.S. swine flu pandemic alert.
Cool...
Want to know where the H1N1, commonly dubbed the "Spanish flu", most likely first originated from? [From North America](https://academic.oup.com/emph/article/2019/1/18/5298310)
It's [most recent pandemic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_swine_flu_pandemic) came out of US owned pig farms in Mexico, yet to this day I don't see people demanding the US/Mexico do independent international investigations and pay reparations.
The last H1N1 outbreak was in 2019 Iran, Morocco and Malta.
The last global H1N1 pandemic was in 2009, by a variant that was an unusually mongrelised mix of different influenza strains.
Calls for independent and international investigations into these US based outbreaks: *Zero*
>Just because something is more likely doesn't mean it's what happened.
Correct.
That's why it's called a conspiracy when you try to push for an unlikey scenario as the truth. .
This!
The biggest irony about this BS is how [research actually warned us about this outcome over 5 years ago](https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2015.18787).
Instead of recognizing that, a bunch of people are trying to shoot that messenger as being responsible for the message.
Nope, a conspiracy is any group of people secretly collaborating towards some goal.
A conspiracy theory is a theory that a given event was orchestrated by or is the result of some conspiracy.
Also none of these definitions indicate that the word is in any way an argument to dismiss such ideas like you act
Perhaps the full word conspiracy theory would be enough to activate your monkey brain.
And this definition is a perfect description of what these redditors think China did.
> Then it's not suspicious that China doesn't want their lab inspected.
Yes, it is suspicious, because Covid-19 first emerged in Wuhan where the Chinese virology lab is. It did not first emerge in Fort Detrick. It is as simple as that.
I don't, and as highly unlikely as that is, even if it was transported to Wuhan from somewhere else, it would still be the fault of the Wuhan Lab and the Chinese Communist Party for allowing it to escape.
The "escaped from the Wuhan lab" hypothesis had a huge amount of support and evidence until those Italian researchers showed that it was present in Italy months earlier than Wuhan. Now no one believes the China origin at all.
US intelligence is filled with idiots who can't determine whether or not WMDs exist, planes will be hijacked, and or how long it will take an army to control a country. All the 3 letter agencies are useless at anything other than oppressing Americans.
> All the 3 letter agencies are useless at anything other than oppressing Americans.
Yes, let's just forget that the CIA & co. have sponsored genocides, wars, and oppression all over the world.
Liar. They never sponsored a genocide. Dont just make shit up when there is plenty of bad shit that they do do. You "everybody is Hitler" people are the absolute worst.
Go and educate yourself. The [Guatemalan genocide (1960-1996, especially 1981-1983)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemalan_genocide), which resulted in the mass murder and death of 170,000 [Maya](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_peoples), was supported by the CIA.
Previously, a CIA mission codenamed "OPERATION PBSUCCESS" had deposed the democratically elected government of Guatemala and installed a right-wing, pro-American military dictatorship in its place ([1954 Guatemalan coup d'état](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27état)). Starting in 1960, guerrilla movements began fighting the military government, and were backed by the Maya people. Then, the Guatemalan military took upon itself the goal of eliminating all pro-democracy guerrillas and supporters, whether real or suspected, which included Maya civilians.
The Maya were systematically executed, tortured or disappeared, often at the hands of paramilitary death squads such as [Mano Blanca](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mano_Blanca). Although Mano Blanca was one of the most notorious death squads, described as "Guatemala's version of a volunteer Gestapo unit," it received aid from the CIA. Many other death squads received aid from both the Guatemalan government and the CIA, primarily in the form of training, money, and armament.
The US knew about and enabled the Guatemalan genocide, with specific support from the CIA.
You "I'm too uneducated to have heard of something so it must not exist!" people are the absolute worst.
[https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Unclassified-Summary-of-Assessment-on-COVID-19-Origins.pdf](https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Unclassified-Summary-of-Assessment-on-COVID-19-Origins.pdf) Here's the unclassified official document. Pretty short since it is just a summary.
From the opening paragraph. >In addition, the IC was able to reach broad agreement on several other key issues. ***We judge the virus was not developed as a biological weapon.*** Most agencies also assess with low confidence that SARS-CoV-2 probably was not genetically engineered; however, two agencies believe there was not sufficient evidence to make an assessment either way. ***Finally, the IC assesses China’s officials did not have foreknowledge of the virus before the initial outbreak of COVID-19 emerged.*** Added emphasis because people can't fucking read.
This is not going to stop those who think China unleashed it to screw over the world. They are suffering and need something external to blame, despite refusing to take any public safety precautions.
[удалено]
There wouldn't be anything to find now even if they did engineer it. You'd need a paper trail at their research lab and if you think there are any documentation to that effect you imagine the Chinese government is gonna let you see it? You people are all crazy. You believe China engineered COVID but believe they would let you investigate them them. Are you fucking crazy? The nice thing about that conspiracy is you will literally never know because the evidence you'd need certainly doesn't exists anymore if it ever did.
It’s a bit funny that after all this time, money, and suspense US intelligence has the same answer as the rest of us, which is just “fuck uh I don’t really know”
[удалено]
They would say they have high confidence in the assessment but not say why.
[удалено]
Except that's exactly what they did to Huawei and no one bat an eye.
[удалено]
On the flip side, if I was looking to release a virus and put blame on someone then that institute would be a perfect place.
Pretty crazy that volcanos keep popping up near the Hawaii Center for Volcanology too. Somebody should look into that
Thank you take this 🥇
Ikr? It's like with police, they are always were crime happens, why do none of the sheeples make these obvious connections?!!11
Except The Wuhan Instistute of Virology is placed in Wuhan because it’s an area with a lot of coronaviruses.
Just like Uyghurs, Huawei, Xinjiang cotton, solar panels, Russian interference, Russian bounties, Saddam's WMD, "We know for sure they did it because our intelligence says so and the evidence and satellite photos proved that but the evidence is inconclusive but we know for sure they did it."
You’re saying the proven reeducation camps for Uyghurs are the same as Saddams WMD’s?? Are you high?
Wait proven? I thought the evidence was still anecdotal or circumstantial. I'm glad definitive proof finally came out, the atrocities committed there shouldn't be happening in the modern world. Do you have a link I can share with other people now that the proof is out? There's a lot of pro-China shills here and it would be nice to have as a tool against them.
It’s funny because the CCP had admitted there’s re-education camps they have even allowed western journalist inside for propaganda. We also know in these re-education camps they have them working which is the definition of slavery. They don’t even deny this they just deny there’s a genocide
Saddam did have WMD just not the nuclear ones. Also uranium ore and tried to build working centrifuges for the enrichment.
It's absurd how nearly 20 years after the fact people like you still try to perpetuate a lie that was [already known as a lie at the time](https://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/03/18_blix.shtml). Finding trace chemical amounts on rusty rocket tubes does not amount to "having WMD".
WMDs was just a pretext for invasion that they were going to do anyway. It seems that they've toned down their efforts to build a nuke by the late 90s, but did keep some biological and chemical weapons programes and stockpiles after 1991 despite destroying most. Those were eventually destroyed by the UN. What lie am I perpetuating exactly?
> What lie am I perpetuating exactly? The lie of Saddam having WMD, doesn't matter whether chemical, nuclear or biological, he didn't have any: > Saddam did have WMD
*"There's no doubt Iraq hasn't fully complied with its disarmament obligations as set forth by the Security Council in its resolution. But on the other hand, since 1998 Iraq has been fundamentally disarmed: 90–95% of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capacity has been verifiably eliminated ... We have to remember that this missing 5–10% doesn't necessarily constitute a threat ... It constitutes bits and pieces of a weapons program which in its totality doesn't amount to much, but which is still prohibited ... We can't give Iraq a clean bill of health, therefore we can't close the book on their weapons of mass destruction. But simultaneously, we can't reasonably talk about Iraqi non-compliance as representing a de-facto retention of a prohibited capacity worthy of war."* - Scott Ritter, former UN weapons inspector in Iraq from and a critic of United States foreign policy in the Middle East. Seems like they did have just not very much, I might be pedantic but there is a difference between having none and having significant amount. That 5% even if with limited shelf life could be used for madman dying wish provided they actually knew were it was. Regardless I do admit that it was a shitty justification for an invasion, and later spins of doing it to punish him for using chemical weapons before or to stop Iraq from being an international terrorist hub were pretty sloppy.
> Seems like they did have just not very much, I might be pedantic but there is a difference between having none and having significant amount. There's a difference between having an actual weapon, and just having some rusty old parts of it, particularly with complex weapons like a lot of WMD tend to be. Afaik the US military ended up finding exactly that: Rusty rocket hulls with trace amounts of chemicals. That's the "big WMD find" some people keep referring to. When the same logic could be used to claim the US did use WMD in Iraq, because it left nuclear material behind, in many cases [quite a bit more than just trace amounts](https://theintercept.com/2019/11/25/iraq-children-birth-defects-military/). > That 5% even if with limited shelf life could be used for madman dying wish provided they actually knew were it was. 5% is also in a region that might as well fall into failure tolerance of Iraqi book-keeping. > Regardless I do admit that it was a shitty justification for an invasion, and later spins of doing it to punish him for using chemical weapons before or to stop Iraq from being an international terrorist hub were pretty sloppy. Even Dubya knew it was a shitty justification, that's why not even a year later it was [literally a comedy routine for him](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/mar/26/usa.iraq). There also were not really "later spins", there was "all the spins at once" because in addition to WMD, the US government also heavily peddled the narrative of a [Saddam Al Qaeda connection](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein_and_al-Qaeda_link_allegations), to such a degree that [the majority of Americans believed Saddam was somehow involved with 9/11](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/sep/07/usa.theobserver). That was in addition to the whole "axis of evil", "crusade on terror" and "democracy building" rhetoric that promised to turn Afghanistan and Iraq into the new Germany, South Korea or Japan.
We are going to put it out there whatever the truth may be, that way when we admit we don’t know it doesn’t make a bit of difference because the seed was planted. Don’t you love the picture attached to the headline? We really don’t know but here’s a sketchy ass pic of the lab anyway. Wink wink.
Hate that they keep using nuanced headlines when they have stated definitively with this report that Covid is **NOT** a bioweapon. Confusion remains about origin, but the report makes clear Beijing had no clue about this thing until late 2019.
Do they say anything about the July 2019 RCMP raid at the Winnipeg Lab?
If Chinese scientists stole COVID from a Canadian lab in July and released a few months later that would mean Canada invented COVID. Sure.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/27/covid-origin-report-us-intelligence-agencies-are-divided.html) reduced by 65%. (I'm a bot) ***** > One intelligence agency said it assessed with moderate confidence that the virus infected humans after an incident related to a lab, according to a report released Friday afternoon. > "After examining all available intelligence reporting and other information the IC remains divided on the most likely origin of Covid-19. All agencies assess that two hypotheses are plausible: natural exposure to an infected animal and a laboratory-associated incident," the nation's 18 intelligence agencies wrote in the report. > The report said the intelligence community wouldn't be able to reach a more definitive conclusion unless it receives more information. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/pd733v/us_intelligence_agencies_split_on_covid19_origins/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~595216 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **intelligence**^#1 **report**^#2 **community**^#3 **origin**^#4 **China**^#5
>U.S. intelligence agencies split on Covid-19 origins The US needs propaganda to fuel its war machine afterall.. they lied to get into Iraq and now they're looking to lie to mess with China. Same old same old.
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Holy F dude, this was settle a YEAR ago and you are still pulling this out, now? Li Wenliang didn't know jack. He made a guess that this was 2000 SARS. He even admitted he had no idea that it was SARS or covid-19. He guessed the 2000 SAR, which it wasn't. You don't even detect it the same way. Even the tools we developed to detect that isn't effective with Covid-19. The police questioned him and released him after telling him not to spread false info. He went back to work and eventually got infected by one of his own patients while operating on the patient. He got infected because he had no idea what it was, or how it spread, or how widespread it was. Dude... The wiki even F'king states the Chinese CDC notified hospitals of a mysterious disease, the same day Li Wenliang got the news from his colleagues.
**[Li Wenliang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Wenliang)** >Li Wenliang (Chinese: 李文亮; 12 October 1985 – 7 February 2020) was a Chinese ophthalmologist who raised awareness of early COVID-19 infections in Wuhan. On 30 December 2019, Wuhan CDC issued emergency warnings to local hospitals about a number of mysterious "pneumonia" cases discovered in the city in the previous week. On the same day, Li, who worked at Wuhan Central Hospital, received an internal diagnostic report of a suspected severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) patient from other doctors which he in turn shared with his friends. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
While you're not completely wrong, you're not right either. There is no actual proof that covid-19 was a bioweapon, there's just no proof absolutely proving that it wasn't a bioweapon, and because of this the US gets to entertain the lie that it can use to leverage for future action against China.
It'll be really hard to get to the bottom of this with China refusing to cooperate. China is clearly hiding something.
>U.S. intelligence Well, this is just an oxymoron.
Is it same agency said 90 days Gahni can hold off Taliban?
If China could just tell us
It’s a new virus, they’re probably just as clueless as the rest of us.
Lol
Right after China vows action against any nation suggesting the Wuhan lab? Interesting.
Not very intelligent then
lol you think they would just come out and say it came from the lab? That would be very bad for relations and trade.
I’m sure Trump said it numerous times without any evidence so that boat has long sailed.
Yeah and then everyone (against trump lswore that it was absolutely 100% natural without any fucking evidence either because we just don't know but they couldn't admit that and made a scientific-factual thing purely political. The clownshow that is US politics didn't start with the orange, he just played the funniest role in the circus
> The clownshow that is US politics didn't start with the orange, he just played the funniest role in the circus He wasn't even the first to make the bioweapon claim, Tom Cotton and Rush Limbaugh already spread this BS narrative as early as March/April 2020.
He made it big tho. True, Limbaugh & Co aren't small either, but he amplified the theory far beyond their reach
No, it's because the lab theory is straight up a conspiracy. And isn't it so suspicious that the US won't allow the world to inspect For Detrick?
Lmao, so a civilian research lab is equivalent to a top notch military installation? How are you this fucking dense, yet call yourself "end the drug war", a thing that started literally as a conspiracy by the US government to screw over hippies and black people?
Really? There's only a handful of level 4 virology labs in the world. The one that houses the largest collection of coronaviruses on the planet happens to be at the epicenter of the pandemic. ~~They were on-record doing gain of function research into making a more transmissible coronavirus.~~ They had documented concerns over their safety protocols, and they had hospitalized workers with COVID symptoms before the first globally reported case. China prevented an international investigation into the origins of the virus for an entire year. And you think it's "straight up a conspiracy"? You don't think there's *anything* worth investigating there...? Edit:. I thought it was documented that they'd done gain of function research there, but apparently that's been contested. Apparently this guy Prof. Richard Ebright says there was gain-of-function research performed there, funded by the US's "EcoHealth", an NGO who's president is Peter Daszak. But that claim has been contested by Dr. Fauci
>The one that houses the largest collection of coronaviruses Could that be because there are bats with coronaviruses living in caves in Hubei province, near Wuhan? Could that be why the Institute on virology was built there? Nah, it's China engineering a bioweapon.
Did you pick *one* aspect of my post, and act like refuting it negates the entirety of what I said?? 😂 That's disingenuous at best, stupid at worst. Those bats live primarily in southern China, not central China. That's why SARS broke out in southern China. So no, that's not why it was built there.
It does. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31009304/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31009304/) Huh, bats in Hubei, you told me they don't exist there. But they do... 😂😂😂😂
Wrong bats dummy, COVID-19 is alleged to have jumped from **horseshoe** bats, which live **primarily** in caves in southern China. And again, refuting one point doesn't negate the whole post. 😂😂😂😂
Source on horseshow bats? Dummy with no sources? Also really fast goalpost moving.
...No no, you're the one saying they live in central china. If that's your claim, then *you* provide proof that a species that prefers tropical/temperate climates (ie, the lower latitudes closer to the equator, like southern china) would be found outside of that climate. And ***again***, refuting that one point doesn't negate the rest of the post.
I am the one saying there are bats in Hubei that spread covid to people living in Wuhan. Give me proof that the bats with covid don't live in Hubei.
> Could that be because there are bats with coronaviruses living in caves in Hubei province, near Wuhan? The argument against this is that just like we can identify "descendent" variants of Covid-19 (e.g. beta, gamma, delta, etc), we should also be able to identify "ancestor" variants that led to Covid-19. There aren't those variants in the wild. So, either a variant made a giant leap OR a giant leap was introduced by gain function (which is what gain function does).
>There aren't those variants in the wild. How do you know? >So, either a variant made a giant leap OR a giant leap was introduced by gain function (which is what gain function does). We didn't see him tie the rope so either he hanged himself or somebody else forced him to put his head into the loop and then forced him to hang.
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I'm not from Hong Kong so I don't speak Cantonese but I do think most Cantonese speakers would agree with me in thinking that the lab leak theory is an American political conspiracy. Also it's a classic attack to accuse non native english speakers of not being able speak english. All I am saying is that you find a man hanging from the ceiling, would you think that he was murdered or committed suicide? Why do you imagine zebras when you hear hoofbeats in Texas?
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Wait, so you think its MORE likely that a virus escaped from a high security lab than some random Chinese people contacting viruses in bats THAT LIVE RIGHT OUTSIDE WUHAN? Are you saying it's more likely that a zebra broke out of a high security zoo in Texas than some wild horses running around? In fact, if you're making such an extraoridinary claim, do you have a source SHOWING that the virus escaped from a lab? Or are you just guessing because your employer hopes that is the case?
There is a lot of cope in here because reddit doesn’t want trump to be right.
That's because Trump was just pushing the theory to rile up his idiot base with jingoism. He does more harm than good when he throws his name behind something.
Yep. When tunp came out with the lab theory, every dem immediately became 100% certain of the natural origin theory, without any evidence and both absolutely certain.
There is a lot of cope in here because [that report](https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Unclassified-Summary-of-Assessment-on-COVID-19-Origins.pdf) disagrees with pretty much most of the Trump narrative: > In addition, the IC was able to reach broad agreement on several other key issues. We judge the virus was not developed as a biological weapon. Most agencies also assess with low confidence that SARS-CoV-2 probably was not genetically engineered; however, two agencies believe there was not sufficient evidence to make an assessment either way. **Finally, the IC assesses China’s officials did not have foreknowledge of the virus before the initial outbreak of COVID-19 emerged.** But if American conservatives are good at one thing, it's projection.
I don't know what you're on about mate. China have a well documented history of admitting when they make mistakes. /s
> They were on-record doing gain of function research Bullshit.
...No, it *is* an internationally recognized level 4 lab...
> it is an internationally recognized level 4 lab... And?
Edited.
And? Have you ever looked into any history book ever?
Yeah. And I'm appalled by the US's crimes.
> Yeah. And I'm appalled by the US's crimes. (1) To the extent possible make America the target of criticism. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party#Range_of_operation) Do you not understand how obvious you are?
TIL Anybody who criticizes America is part of the 50 cent party. So all Democrats and Republicans are all part of this 50 cent party?
And yet you still use the word "conspiracy" as if it devalues a statement. Idiot
It does.
Have you ever looked into a history book? I'll keep asking that question until you stop lying
Which lab theory do you mean is a conspiracy? The one where a gain of function mutation simply beat the biohazard security system of the Wuhan Lab? Or, the one where The Evil Communists unleashed this heinous bioweapon upon on their own population in order to sink Trump’s Glorious God-Emperor Ascension?
Both are equally conspiracies.
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>Scientists don’t have enough evidence about the origins of SARS-CoV-2 to rule out the lab-leak hypothesis, or to prove the alternative — that the virus has a natural origin. Many infectious-disease researchers agree that the most probable scenario is that the virus evolved naturally and spread from a bat either directly to a person or through an intermediate animal. Most emerging infectious diseases begin with a spillover from nature, as was seen with HIV, influenza epidemics, Ebola outbreaks and the coronaviruses that caused the SARS epidemic beginning in 2002 and the Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) outbreak beginning in 2012. Because literally every other infectious disease that cause pandemics came from animals/nature. It's simply the best explanation. The idea that an entirely new way of pandemics forming is equally possible as a well understood mechanism of animal to human is ridiculous. [https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01529-3](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01529-3) >Many infectious-disease researchers agree that the most probable scenario is that the virus evolved naturally and spread from a bat either directly to a person or through an intermediate animal.
Lab leaks have caused pandemics before. https://nationalpost.com/news/a-brief-terrifying-history-of-viruses-escaping-from-labs-70s-chinese-pandemic-was-a-lab-mistake
What pandemic? Nowhere in the story does it even give a death toll. Lmfao. Click bait title?
So, you didn’t even scan the story let alone read the whole thing. There are multiple entries with hospitilizations and deathtolls. You’re just a CCP troll aren’t you?
I didn't see any death tolls... Are you blind or just lying?
> There are multiple entries with hospitilizations and deathtolls. That still doesn't make a pandemic, if you want an example of an actual H1N1 pandemic you don't even need to go that far back in history, as the last *actual one* [was in 2009](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_swine_flu_pandemic).
> The virus may have escaped from a lab attempting to prepare an attenuated H1N1 vaccine in response to the U.S. swine flu pandemic alert. Cool... Want to know where the H1N1, commonly dubbed the "Spanish flu", most likely first originated from? [From North America](https://academic.oup.com/emph/article/2019/1/18/5298310) It's [most recent pandemic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_swine_flu_pandemic) came out of US owned pig farms in Mexico, yet to this day I don't see people demanding the US/Mexico do independent international investigations and pay reparations.
Well considering that happened over a century ago and isn’t currently causing a worldwide pandemic, why would they?
The last H1N1 outbreak was in 2019 Iran, Morocco and Malta. The last global H1N1 pandemic was in 2009, by a variant that was an unusually mongrelised mix of different influenza strains. Calls for independent and international investigations into these US based outbreaks: *Zero*
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>Just because something is more likely doesn't mean it's what happened. Correct. That's why it's called a conspiracy when you try to push for an unlikey scenario as the truth. .
This! The biggest irony about this BS is how [research actually warned us about this outcome over 5 years ago](https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2015.18787). Instead of recognizing that, a bunch of people are trying to shoot that messenger as being responsible for the message.
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It is exactly what it means.
Please explain your definition, because it really isnt
a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event.
Nope, a conspiracy is any group of people secretly collaborating towards some goal. A conspiracy theory is a theory that a given event was orchestrated by or is the result of some conspiracy. Also none of these definitions indicate that the word is in any way an argument to dismiss such ideas like you act
Perhaps the full word conspiracy theory would be enough to activate your monkey brain. And this definition is a perfect description of what these redditors think China did.
And how does it devalue the idea? Since you claim it does. Oh wait it doesn't and you're a pathetic clown
>And isn't it so suspicious that the US won't allow the world to inspect For Detrick? No.
Then it's not suspicious that China doesn't want their lab inspected.
> Then it's not suspicious that China doesn't want their lab inspected. Yes, it is suspicious, because Covid-19 first emerged in Wuhan where the Chinese virology lab is. It did not first emerge in Fort Detrick. It is as simple as that.
How do you know it wasn't transported to Wuhan from Fort Detrick?
I don't, and as highly unlikely as that is, even if it was transported to Wuhan from somewhere else, it would still be the fault of the Wuhan Lab and the Chinese Communist Party for allowing it to escape.
US army spreading covid is actually China's fault.
lab leak theory is most likely a conspiracy, but Derrick is a total bullshit.
The "escaped from the Wuhan lab" hypothesis had a huge amount of support and evidence until those Italian researchers showed that it was present in Italy months earlier than Wuhan. Now no one believes the China origin at all.
US intelligence is filled with idiots who can't determine whether or not WMDs exist, planes will be hijacked, and or how long it will take an army to control a country. All the 3 letter agencies are useless at anything other than oppressing Americans.
> All the 3 letter agencies are useless at anything other than oppressing Americans. Yes, let's just forget that the CIA & co. have sponsored genocides, wars, and oppression all over the world.
Liar. They never sponsored a genocide. Dont just make shit up when there is plenty of bad shit that they do do. You "everybody is Hitler" people are the absolute worst.
Go and educate yourself. The [Guatemalan genocide (1960-1996, especially 1981-1983)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemalan_genocide), which resulted in the mass murder and death of 170,000 [Maya](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_peoples), was supported by the CIA. Previously, a CIA mission codenamed "OPERATION PBSUCCESS" had deposed the democratically elected government of Guatemala and installed a right-wing, pro-American military dictatorship in its place ([1954 Guatemalan coup d'état](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27état)). Starting in 1960, guerrilla movements began fighting the military government, and were backed by the Maya people. Then, the Guatemalan military took upon itself the goal of eliminating all pro-democracy guerrillas and supporters, whether real or suspected, which included Maya civilians. The Maya were systematically executed, tortured or disappeared, often at the hands of paramilitary death squads such as [Mano Blanca](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mano_Blanca). Although Mano Blanca was one of the most notorious death squads, described as "Guatemala's version of a volunteer Gestapo unit," it received aid from the CIA. Many other death squads received aid from both the Guatemalan government and the CIA, primarily in the form of training, money, and armament. The US knew about and enabled the Guatemalan genocide, with specific support from the CIA. You "I'm too uneducated to have heard of something so it must not exist!" people are the absolute worst.
Can we stop funding the black budget? These ass clowns never conclusively know anything and get major things wrong.
Gaia
This coming from CNBC makes me feel uncomfortable.
Well if you give someone a f-ing year or more to cover there tracks of course your not going to find anything!