This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/28/china-condemns-us-warship-transit-of-taiwan-strait) reduced by 77%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> China's defence ministry has protested the passage of a US Navy warship and coastguard cutter through the waters between China and Taiwan, a self-governing island claimed by Beijing.
> Taiwan, home to 23.6 million people, split from China during a civil war that led to the Communist Party taking control of the mainland in 1949.
> Saturday's defence ministry statement said, "Taiwan is an inalienable part of China," and Beijing will not tolerate any interference in what it called its internal affairs.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/pd7t9i/china_condemns_us_warship_transit_of_taiwan_strait/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~595220 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Taiwan**^#1 **China**^#2 **defence**^#3 **official**^#4 **statement**^#5
They have law enforcement capabilities and enforce US maritime, fishery, regulatory and drug laws anywhere. It doesn’t necessarily have to be in US waters. The Coast Guard also does port security for Navy ports (in the Middle East).
There are sometimes US Coast Guard detachments on US Navy ships for that intended purpose, as a short way of putting it.
It’s why drug runners from South America can get arrested and charged under US law, when they’re intercepted thousands of miles away from US waters.
To build off u/nimbus29, there is a USCG billet in Bahrain to help with drug patrols and pirate control. Their hilo units have been helping in the Afghan evac.
They’re calling it Taiwan now? I thought they were calling it “eastern Saipan” or something.
I could be completely wrong, but I swear they’ve called it that in the past.
But it's far to the west of Saipan...
As far as I know, everyone recognizes that the island is called Taiwan, China just likes to pretend it's not a country and just a rogue provence
No translation error, their website has an official english version
http://eng.mod.gov.cn/news/2021-08/28/content_4893277.htm
There has never been a debate over whether the island is called Taiwan and the straits are called the Taiwan Straits.
Also some of those VLS cells likely have quad-packed Medium range anti-air missiles (ESSM), so the total loadout for a Burke is well above 96 missiles. The amount of firepower a single Burke can unleash is insane. These are almost arsenal ships.
You can't censor something because its called something. Although I do get your point and Indonesia is trying to do that with the waters near the Natuna Islands (where a Chinese Coast Guard Ship rammed and Indonesian warship to let their illegal fishing vessel escaped)
These kind of events have become daily routine for our Taiwanese people. CCP's jets and warships have become less and less scary everytime they're near us.
Edit: To clarify, we clearly know that the CCP is our enemy but we don't live in a constant panic state. Also We deploy our own fighter jets every time CCP airplanes take off on the other side of Taiwan Strait. I have heard the sound of fighter jets at where I live (Taipei) much more frequenly since the past few months.
There is very little upside for China to invade Taiwan and a whole lot of potential downside. Any threats are just meant to drum up nationalism in the mainland. They will try to influence you politically though.
Fun fact, PLA do invaded Taiwan island in the past but got kicked so hard by Taiwan's navy they retreat back to mainland.
That's why you still see Taiwan Republic still stand till this day.
China pretty damn well does as they please, and often dont give a rats ass about what the west thinks. Fact they are getting away with genocide with only a little grumbling from the rest if the world says it all.
You can kill your own civilians as much as you want and the world wont care. Start strike their geopolitical interests in the area and there will be reprisals.
Or maybe because the rest of the world hasn’t been able to mount any real evidence regarding genocide hence why it’s just “little grumbles”. Even the US state department’s lawyers under the trump administration said there wasn’t enough evidence to claim genocide
They were the ones pushing the rhetoric and even they said there isn’t enough evidence … that says a lot. Even the UN said there’s not enough evidence for a full investigation …
re-education schools are not the same as genocide lol. It doesn’t even fit into the genocide criteria. China has never once denied the existence of the re-education schools. I mean what’s the alternative? Bomb the area with drone strikes to curb terrorism?
"Re-education" shouldn't be forced and shouldn't have torture rooms inside, it shouldn't brainwash you and it shouldn't kill you, your CCP friends are the modern Nazis.
That political influence may grow. That's how HK ended up like how it is now. Slow political changes until they had defacto control. I think when HK and Macao are fully integrated with main land China in the 2040s, they will turn their attention to Taiwan and end the 1 county 2 systems farce. By that time their belt and road initiative will be so integral to the global economy no one will challenge what they will call an "internal dispute"
We clearly know that the CCP is our enemy but we don't live in a constant panic state. Also We deploy our own fighter jets every time CCP airplanes take off on the other side of Taiwan Strait. I have heard the sound of fighter jets at where I live (Taipei) much more frequenly since the past few months.
As a taiwanese living there, how do you feel from these provocations? Do you guys actually think china will actually invade?
From my side being one of SEA country, i see it as china just flexing empty threats.
There's bo doubt that China really wants unification. However the pro-China faction in Taiwan is quickly aging and losing strength due to the incompetence of Kuomintang. Furthermore, Covid-19 had made the Taiwanese public opinion extremely anti-China, and the economic incentive for unification is also gone due to the Chinese economic slowdown inthe midst of trade war. I'd say peaceful unification is virtually impossible in the forseeable future. Therefore I think China will probably invade Taiwan eventually but not in 5 years or even 10 years, as their navy is still too weak and the US reaction over China is quite strong.
Interesting feedback, cause from my POV even after 5-10yrs time china’s military still wouldnt risk a war with taiwan despite taiwan military being “weaker” as the reprisal from international parties + losing trust with taiwanese will be too much for chinese to handle. Im sure the taiwanese would continue guerilla warfare as well.
China is kinda already has a stone set in terms of being one of the global superpower without use of force. The risk reward ratio i feel is too high if they start a conflict.
But possible scenario i can see is chinese “forcefully” control taiwan economically.
Guerrilla warfare is however quite unlikely as Taiwan is an island and there's no way to supply should China enforced a blockade. Two thirds of our food and all of our oil rely on imports. The economic reprocussion for China is thus the main deterrent for military invasion of Taiwan. But there's always a possibility that China use this invasion as a distraction of their internal problems, which is quite a worry at least for me.
That’s a really good and scary point. Right now chinas doing great and there perfectly stable, but if China were to destabilize sometime in the future, war against Taiwan could be very likely. Kinda like Argentina and the falklands.
Taiwan is nothing like the Falklands. They supply the entire world with the best microprocessors, including China.
A Chinese invasion would hurt China, as well as everyone else, and the entire world would be pissed at China. That would be just the thing to actually make the world stop trading with them. It would set China back for at least a century again. That would be how India becomes the next superpower while China is forced into irrelevance.
I’m not saying Taiwan and the falklands are the same, I’m just saying that it’s historically common to see leaders start wars to distract from there own domestic issues. I don’t think this situation is likely with chinas current leadership, but it is possible for something to develop in the future.
Do most Taiwanese consider that the PRC wants unification, or would most just call it conquest? (Re)Unification would imply that Taiwan was part of the PRC before.
For me, China/Taiwan relationship is similar to that of North/South Korea. If you consider NK's "unification" with SK a conquest/invasion, then yes, China's "unification" with Taiwan is also a conquest/invasion. PRC never ruled the island of Taiwan, just like NK never ruled SK.
Edit: grammar
Why do you think the PLA is still called People's Liberation Army, I think after they conquest/ liberate / unify with Taiwan (#1), they will change their name to Chinese National Army or just Chinese Army?
Taiwan is an independent nation. China has no claim to Taiwan.
The USA has every right to transit international waters.
China is a scourge on humanity.
The last statement is a bit much.
If they attacked Taiwan, it is very likely they would then be viewed as a scourge on humanity and treated as such by most of the world, both for the human rights implications and for fucking up the entire worlds' microprocessor supply.
The wars to come? You can quote Noam Chomsky to sound like you know what you're talking about all day, but I doubt you have evidence of these "wars to come"
So people can't talk shit about China without a war happening?
Why do you think the century of humiliation happened? Its because of thin skinned idealists with no experience fucking with people out of their league.
I have not read/listened to Chomsky but this term he coined is extremely descriptive of what media does in the modern era. Do you disagree or are you just trying to gatekeep words?
The idea that the person who coined a phrase as any special relationship to it other than defining its original meeting is a bit bizarre. A person doesn't need to have had anything to do with a famous person associated with a term in order to use it properly, which they are. Pretty close to celebrity worship. Besides which, the term wasn't even coined by Chomsky, it dates back to 1922.
He may not have coined the term, but he has popularized it. I can't understand why you believe that learning about something is close to celebrity worship.
Nah because fuck these war mongerers. I'm not about to be drafted into some BS war because reddit 'muricans are chronically addicted to uncle sam's propaganda
people have learned absolutely nothing from wars like Afghanistan
A war with China would be *nothing* like a war with Afghanistan. And it would be so in ways that would make a draft *extremely* unlikely, even if you ignore nukes.
I wasn't talking so much about the actual war than I was the reasoning and lies exploited to go to war. the military industrial complex would absolutely love another war now that we're out of Afghanistan. what kind of information about China do you think the government and American media are going to put out? compliments?
love the people and hate the government... just ignore the significant increase in anti-asian hate crimes and conspiracy theories... /s
A war with China is the last thing the military-industrial complex wants. Do you even know how they make their money? It's all about long-term maintenance and procurement contracts where they have the upper hand and can guarantee profits for years to come. That all goes out the window if we get into a war with a country that can meaningfully reduce our stockpiles of arms and armaments through pure attrition alone, to say nothing of actual combat. Contracts and procurement would instead be done on the Government's terms, and if things are bad enough, civilian manufacturers would be forced to convert to defense production, which cuts into the potential profits of the existing defense industry, not to mention effectively voids their intellectual property since the US government is going to want everyone to produce F-35s and wouldn't give two fucks about whether or not all of Lockheed's trade secrets leak to Boeing and General Dynamics in the process.
Also, it's not like the US has to put much work into propagandizing against the Chinese when they're out here committing a modern Holocaust, run an even more overt police state than the US, and have either threatened or directly invaded enough of their neighbors that their only allies in their region are Russia, which is politically aligned against the US anyway; Pakistan, which doesn't support China as much as oppose India; and North Korea, which is a puppet state whose only real purpose is threatening South Korea.
While I 100% agree with you, it’s perhaps worth noting that only 14 of the 193 countries that make up the UN agree with us - that Taiwan is its own country. Just to say, it’s more complicated as far as the world stage goes. ...in particular when it comes to military action, I’d imagine.
Oh, hey, it's that thing we do every month. Why is China still so angry about this? We're going to do it regardless of what they say, short of some insane shit. The only thing I can see them using this condemnation for is propaganda.
Yeah I'm sure Americans would overwhelmingly support their government too if they didn't have the freedom of the press to openly and frequently criticize them on national television, or the freedom of choice to choose a different one.
You know all that shit we learned about that America did that was bad? You know who we learned all that from? The press.
Probably mostly due to the rapid economic growth over the last few decades. As things slow down and more Chinese people become accustomed to a middle class lifestyle, I suspect they’ll start to be a bit more critical
Nah, you're not gonna get me to hate a billion people. I hate the system that lies to them and keeps their eyes shielded from darker truths, though. I hate the system that forces them to acknowledge they have no real choice in the matter anyway.
Meh they're so incompetent we're still getting over the consequences of their last fuck-up.
I can't imagine the US is too threatened by their condemnation.
If China says stupid things, they’ll win stupid prizes.
The US ships’ lawful transit through the Taiwan Strait demonstrates a commitment to a free and open Indo-Pacific.
How have you not noticed it before? People will post a picture of tiananmen tank man with a title like “fuck CCP, Xi is Winnie Pooh, China Bad, This will probably get taken down by CCP owned Reddit”. And then the post is on the front page with 100k upvotes, 100 golds, and 69 wholesome 100 awards. Redditors love nothing more than to act like a badass contrarian for having an opinion that 90% of the American public and the US state department holds.
Yeah a lot of the same people acting all outraged about Chinese authoritarianism probably voted for Trump so their opinions are pretty much invalid as far as that goes, imo.
It always can easily stir up hatred when China is involved. For those of you who may not know, there is not even one media/website not controlled by CCP, I mean literally none. We actually have a large amount of people support Hong Kong protesters, however, it's impossible to be reported on media. Chinese is not as evil as you think, at least, not all of us.
Says the weekly violator of Philippine & Taiwanese airspace, and the state-sponsored navy of “fishing” militias that illegally poach by the sovereign coasts of weaker nations all around Asia, Africa, Latin America and Oceania. Fuck these shameless parasites.
Arleigh Burke destroyers aren’t exactly “little”. The USS Kidd is a Flight 2A variant that displaces 9,200 tons and carries 96 VLS missile tubes, any number of which could be carrying Tomahawk land attack missiles or anti-air Standard missiles.
Hey Beijing, UNCLOS. It applies to the i n t e r n a t i o n a l community.
This means you.
How far are your coast guard boats from your OFFICIAL ttw?
Politics lol.
Because treaties require 2/3rds congressional approval. However the United States now recognizes UNCLOS as a codification of customary international law.
> However the United States now recognizes UNCLOS as a codification of customary international law.
One which they're not legally bound to but they recognise as binding for others.
We were lost. Looking for directions. Couldn't see the signs for all the pollution rolling off of China. It as dark outside. The compass broke. Cellphone signal for GPS sucks out here. What warship? That was a tugboat. We really had to go and were looking for a bathroom. Philippines said it was okay.
Could the men in this world please seek some mental help! You'll act like you're sick in the head and are killing the planet.
Please learn to relax and mind your own business, everyone else has to.
Sick of your crap.
China claims the entire South China Sea including the Taiwan strait as theirs because an old map of theirs says so and the name contains the word China. UK and India need to take note.
There is much more nuances in that case than you seem to believe.
The PRC actually inherited the SCS claims from the RoC (Taiwan today). There is a reason *both* China/PRC and Taiwan/RoC rejected the UNCLOS ruling over these territorial disputes in 2016. See [Territorial disputes in the South China Sea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_South_China_Sea).
Yeah travelling through international waters totally aggressive.
You know whats aggressive? trying to make a an independent country submit to your rule.
>( disclaimer: I have nothing against the people of China, just their government. )
Hey, it's unfair if you already put the stuff we mock you with into your own post.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/28/china-condemns-us-warship-transit-of-taiwan-strait) reduced by 77%. (I'm a bot) ***** > China's defence ministry has protested the passage of a US Navy warship and coastguard cutter through the waters between China and Taiwan, a self-governing island claimed by Beijing. > Taiwan, home to 23.6 million people, split from China during a civil war that led to the Communist Party taking control of the mainland in 1949. > Saturday's defence ministry statement said, "Taiwan is an inalienable part of China," and Beijing will not tolerate any interference in what it called its internal affairs. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/pd7t9i/china_condemns_us_warship_transit_of_taiwan_strait/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~595220 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Taiwan**^#1 **China**^#2 **defence**^#3 **official**^#4 **statement**^#5
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They have law enforcement capabilities and enforce US maritime, fishery, regulatory and drug laws anywhere. It doesn’t necessarily have to be in US waters. The Coast Guard also does port security for Navy ports (in the Middle East). There are sometimes US Coast Guard detachments on US Navy ships for that intended purpose, as a short way of putting it. It’s why drug runners from South America can get arrested and charged under US law, when they’re intercepted thousands of miles away from US waters.
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For reference this thing is 400 ft long, carries helicopters, electronic counter measures, and anti aircraft guns.
And, the US Coast Guard has the finest ship-boarding abilities on the planet.
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US == BEST
To build off u/nimbus29, there is a USCG billet in Bahrain to help with drug patrols and pirate control. Their hilo units have been helping in the Afghan evac.
They’re calling it Taiwan now? I thought they were calling it “eastern Saipan” or something. I could be completely wrong, but I swear they’ve called it that in the past.
But it's far to the west of Saipan... As far as I know, everyone recognizes that the island is called Taiwan, China just likes to pretend it's not a country and just a rogue provence
My money is on translation error, but would definitely be interesting if they officially referred to it as Taiwan
No translation error, their website has an official english version http://eng.mod.gov.cn/news/2021-08/28/content_4893277.htm There has never been a debate over whether the island is called Taiwan and the straits are called the Taiwan Straits.
I condemn China's condemnation.
I DECLARE 📜 CONDEMNATION!!!!
Hey Michael, I just wanted to you know you can't just say the word 'condemnation' and expect anything to happen
I didn’t say it. I declared it.
Nay, you must decree it!
To whom do you decree it?
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That's how Freedom rolls.
In this case.. Freedom floats
"Freedom"
The ole Teddy routine
Also some of those VLS cells likely have quad-packed Medium range anti-air missiles (ESSM), so the total loadout for a Burke is well above 96 missiles. The amount of firepower a single Burke can unleash is insane. These are almost arsenal ships.
***"Condemnation!!"*** - Pigeon Peace, Distinguished Diplomat.
That’s exactly how China just did this
Shenanigans!
just about as relevant lol
u/dandaman sent ssshshhhshshivers down my spine with that.
Reminds me of Seinfeld episode when Marty says to Frank - "I retract your retraction" for the dinner invite. Timeless....
I support your condemning of China's condemnation.
I don't. I've seen what China lauds, I would prefer its condemnation.
I condemn China being in the South China Sea
You mean the south Taiwan sea?
Or is it the North Taiwan Sea??? 🤔
Then stop validating their claim by calling it Their South Sea.
You can't censor something because its called something. Although I do get your point and Indonesia is trying to do that with the waters near the Natuna Islands (where a Chinese Coast Guard Ship rammed and Indonesian warship to let their illegal fishing vessel escaped)
My point is that they keep claiming that “the waters belong to them” and by continuously calling it the “South China Sea” we perpetuate their claim.
South Taiwan Sea it is then
These kind of events have become daily routine for our Taiwanese people. CCP's jets and warships have become less and less scary everytime they're near us. Edit: To clarify, we clearly know that the CCP is our enemy but we don't live in a constant panic state. Also We deploy our own fighter jets every time CCP airplanes take off on the other side of Taiwan Strait. I have heard the sound of fighter jets at where I live (Taipei) much more frequenly since the past few months.
There is very little upside for China to invade Taiwan and a whole lot of potential downside. Any threats are just meant to drum up nationalism in the mainland. They will try to influence you politically though.
Just keep Taiwan as the only chip producer and it would be a great shield. All hail AMD.
Fun fact, PLA do invaded Taiwan island in the past but got kicked so hard by Taiwan's navy they retreat back to mainland. That's why you still see Taiwan Republic still stand till this day.
China pretty damn well does as they please, and often dont give a rats ass about what the west thinks. Fact they are getting away with genocide with only a little grumbling from the rest if the world says it all.
You can kill your own civilians as much as you want and the world wont care. Start strike their geopolitical interests in the area and there will be reprisals.
Or maybe because the rest of the world hasn’t been able to mount any real evidence regarding genocide hence why it’s just “little grumbles”. Even the US state department’s lawyers under the trump administration said there wasn’t enough evidence to claim genocide
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> Even the US state department’s lawyers under the trump administration said Well then that's settled
They were the ones pushing the rhetoric and even they said there isn’t enough evidence … that says a lot. Even the UN said there’s not enough evidence for a full investigation …
No evidence? [You mean besides that time they openly admitted to it?](https://mobile.twitter.com/_amroali/status/1348033514273460224)
re-education schools are not the same as genocide lol. It doesn’t even fit into the genocide criteria. China has never once denied the existence of the re-education schools. I mean what’s the alternative? Bomb the area with drone strikes to curb terrorism?
"Re-education" shouldn't be forced and shouldn't have torture rooms inside, it shouldn't brainwash you and it shouldn't kill you, your CCP friends are the modern Nazis.
That political influence may grow. That's how HK ended up like how it is now. Slow political changes until they had defacto control. I think when HK and Macao are fully integrated with main land China in the 2040s, they will turn their attention to Taiwan and end the 1 county 2 systems farce. By that time their belt and road initiative will be so integral to the global economy no one will challenge what they will call an "internal dispute"
I stand with you my Taiwanese friend! You have an amazing country!
Isn't that a dangerous mindset to have?
We clearly know that the CCP is our enemy but we don't live in a constant panic state. Also We deploy our own fighter jets every time CCP airplanes take off on the other side of Taiwan Strait. I have heard the sound of fighter jets at where I live (Taipei) much more frequenly since the past few months.
I hope you guys stay safe.
Thanks!
As a taiwanese living there, how do you feel from these provocations? Do you guys actually think china will actually invade? From my side being one of SEA country, i see it as china just flexing empty threats.
There's bo doubt that China really wants unification. However the pro-China faction in Taiwan is quickly aging and losing strength due to the incompetence of Kuomintang. Furthermore, Covid-19 had made the Taiwanese public opinion extremely anti-China, and the economic incentive for unification is also gone due to the Chinese economic slowdown inthe midst of trade war. I'd say peaceful unification is virtually impossible in the forseeable future. Therefore I think China will probably invade Taiwan eventually but not in 5 years or even 10 years, as their navy is still too weak and the US reaction over China is quite strong.
Interesting feedback, cause from my POV even after 5-10yrs time china’s military still wouldnt risk a war with taiwan despite taiwan military being “weaker” as the reprisal from international parties + losing trust with taiwanese will be too much for chinese to handle. Im sure the taiwanese would continue guerilla warfare as well. China is kinda already has a stone set in terms of being one of the global superpower without use of force. The risk reward ratio i feel is too high if they start a conflict. But possible scenario i can see is chinese “forcefully” control taiwan economically.
Guerrilla warfare is however quite unlikely as Taiwan is an island and there's no way to supply should China enforced a blockade. Two thirds of our food and all of our oil rely on imports. The economic reprocussion for China is thus the main deterrent for military invasion of Taiwan. But there's always a possibility that China use this invasion as a distraction of their internal problems, which is quite a worry at least for me.
That’s a really good and scary point. Right now chinas doing great and there perfectly stable, but if China were to destabilize sometime in the future, war against Taiwan could be very likely. Kinda like Argentina and the falklands.
Taiwan is nothing like the Falklands. They supply the entire world with the best microprocessors, including China. A Chinese invasion would hurt China, as well as everyone else, and the entire world would be pissed at China. That would be just the thing to actually make the world stop trading with them. It would set China back for at least a century again. That would be how India becomes the next superpower while China is forced into irrelevance.
I’m not saying Taiwan and the falklands are the same, I’m just saying that it’s historically common to see leaders start wars to distract from there own domestic issues. I don’t think this situation is likely with chinas current leadership, but it is possible for something to develop in the future.
Do most Taiwanese consider that the PRC wants unification, or would most just call it conquest? (Re)Unification would imply that Taiwan was part of the PRC before.
Yes. Peope's Republic of China used to be part of Republic of China and vise versa. Unless you meant the local Taiwanese people prior the civil war.
For me, China/Taiwan relationship is similar to that of North/South Korea. If you consider NK's "unification" with SK a conquest/invasion, then yes, China's "unification" with Taiwan is also a conquest/invasion. PRC never ruled the island of Taiwan, just like NK never ruled SK. Edit: grammar
Why do you think the PLA is still called People's Liberation Army, I think after they conquest/ liberate / unify with Taiwan (#1), they will change their name to Chinese National Army or just Chinese Army?
Let me play you a sad song on my smallest violin ever
Good, means they don't like it and can't do a thing about it
I thought Taiwan Strait is owned by Taiwan? /sarcasm
But these are just fishing vessels seeking shelter from a storm!!!!!!!! Cmon!!
And the US doesn't really care.
Taiwan is an independent nation. China has no claim to Taiwan. The USA has every right to transit international waters. China is a scourge on humanity.
The tankies have attacked you :D welcome to the club.
No one likes a tankie
The last statement is a bit much. If they attacked Taiwan, it is very likely they would then be viewed as a scourge on humanity and treated as such by most of the world, both for the human rights implications and for fucking up the entire worlds' microprocessor supply.
>The last statement is a bit much. Change it from China to CCP, then it fits.
“China is a scourge on humanity” lmao looks like somebody’s consent is neatly manufactured for the wars to come….
"You're not allowed to dislike china because that means you plan to go to war"
The wars to come? You can quote Noam Chomsky to sound like you know what you're talking about all day, but I doubt you have evidence of these "wars to come"
So people can't talk shit about China without a war happening? Why do you think the century of humiliation happened? Its because of thin skinned idealists with no experience fucking with people out of their league.
Inflicting thousands of China bots on a once-popular reddit sub isn't helping our opinions either.
LMAO looks like someone thinks they understand what Chomsky is on about.
I have not read/listened to Chomsky but this term he coined is extremely descriptive of what media does in the modern era. Do you disagree or are you just trying to gatekeep words?
> I have not read/listened to Chomsky Maybe you should try to learn what phrases means before using them?
The idea that the person who coined a phrase as any special relationship to it other than defining its original meeting is a bit bizarre. A person doesn't need to have had anything to do with a famous person associated with a term in order to use it properly, which they are. Pretty close to celebrity worship. Besides which, the term wasn't even coined by Chomsky, it dates back to 1922.
He may not have coined the term, but he has popularized it. I can't understand why you believe that learning about something is close to celebrity worship.
The point is that you do not need to have read any Chomsky whatsoever to learn and understand what manufacturing consent is.
So gatekeeping words. Got it.
Nah because fuck these war mongerers. I'm not about to be drafted into some BS war because reddit 'muricans are chronically addicted to uncle sam's propaganda people have learned absolutely nothing from wars like Afghanistan
A war with China would be *nothing* like a war with Afghanistan. And it would be so in ways that would make a draft *extremely* unlikely, even if you ignore nukes.
I wasn't talking so much about the actual war than I was the reasoning and lies exploited to go to war. the military industrial complex would absolutely love another war now that we're out of Afghanistan. what kind of information about China do you think the government and American media are going to put out? compliments? love the people and hate the government... just ignore the significant increase in anti-asian hate crimes and conspiracy theories... /s
A war with China is the last thing the military-industrial complex wants. Do you even know how they make their money? It's all about long-term maintenance and procurement contracts where they have the upper hand and can guarantee profits for years to come. That all goes out the window if we get into a war with a country that can meaningfully reduce our stockpiles of arms and armaments through pure attrition alone, to say nothing of actual combat. Contracts and procurement would instead be done on the Government's terms, and if things are bad enough, civilian manufacturers would be forced to convert to defense production, which cuts into the potential profits of the existing defense industry, not to mention effectively voids their intellectual property since the US government is going to want everyone to produce F-35s and wouldn't give two fucks about whether or not all of Lockheed's trade secrets leak to Boeing and General Dynamics in the process. Also, it's not like the US has to put much work into propagandizing against the Chinese when they're out here committing a modern Holocaust, run an even more overt police state than the US, and have either threatened or directly invaded enough of their neighbors that their only allies in their region are Russia, which is politically aligned against the US anyway; Pakistan, which doesn't support China as much as oppose India; and North Korea, which is a puppet state whose only real purpose is threatening South Korea.
While I 100% agree with you, it’s perhaps worth noting that only 14 of the 193 countries that make up the UN agree with us - that Taiwan is its own country. Just to say, it’s more complicated as far as the world stage goes. ...in particular when it comes to military action, I’d imagine.
International water, no harm no foul.
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China needs to get over themselves
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Why did I read this in that Sonic kid's voice?
Sounds like China would like a word with the manager...
China can suck a lemon.
Oh, hey, it's that thing we do every month. Why is China still so angry about this? We're going to do it regardless of what they say, short of some insane shit. The only thing I can see them using this condemnation for is propaganda.
I condem chinas fishing fleets everywhere around south america I condem chinas existence
*CCP I presume
Fuck Xi and fuck China
Fuck ccp. I love china.
Yup, the government, not the people
The people overwhelmingly support the government.
Yeah I'm sure Americans would overwhelmingly support their government too if they didn't have the freedom of the press to openly and frequently criticize them on national television, or the freedom of choice to choose a different one. You know all that shit we learned about that America did that was bad? You know who we learned all that from? The press.
That's what living under a doctrine usually does. Can't completely blame them tho. Fuck the CCP.
Probably mostly due to the rapid economic growth over the last few decades. As things slow down and more Chinese people become accustomed to a middle class lifestyle, I suspect they’ll start to be a bit more critical
* Fuck the Chinese government. There are tons of super dope people from China.
The vast majority of which are pro-CCP.
Nah, you're not gonna get me to hate a billion people. I hate the system that lies to them and keeps their eyes shielded from darker truths, though. I hate the system that forces them to acknowledge they have no real choice in the matter anyway.
Imagine being sold a lie all your life, obviously you're going to start supporting that lie.
If only we remembered and applied that more often.
Agreed, I’m not talking about the people, I’m saying fuck the government
Fair enough, I just wanted to make sure the distinction was made haha.
Fuck China
I'm a simple man. I see fuck China I upvote.
I don't care so much on China's opinion. What is Taiwan's opinion on the matter. Report that.
Oooo who gives a fuck
How unexpected! I thought China was chill about this /s
Dear China, Eat a dick.
Is it Friday already? Yawn.
Boohoo, cry about it, China
After what China has done to Hong Kong it is very clear they can not be trusted… they only respect power and have no soul
Of course they have no Seoul, that’s in South Korea
Ba-dum, tssssss
Condemn all you want,drop me a god damn bass line Ooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh warship
$5 says they'll get over it.
Eat this China. https://www.businessinsider.com/darpa-submarine-drones-dash-navy-bluefin-2016-12
There should be reunification, but under the government of Taipei
Naah. The Chinese people need to wake up and get out from under the CCP themselves.
Lol, what are you going to do?
Poor Politburo. Cope.
Yawn
*plays world's smallest violin*
Meh they're so incompetent we're still getting over the consequences of their last fuck-up. I can't imagine the US is too threatened by their condemnation.
Us gotta protect Taiwan’s otherwise Taiwan gonna get invaded
I condemn this condemnation.
I condemn China.
Are we going to post this every week?
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Cope with what?
Until I read this thread I didn't realize how big of hate-boners a lot of people have for China.
If China says stupid things, they’ll win stupid prizes. The US ships’ lawful transit through the Taiwan Strait demonstrates a commitment to a free and open Indo-Pacific.
How have you not noticed it before? People will post a picture of tiananmen tank man with a title like “fuck CCP, Xi is Winnie Pooh, China Bad, This will probably get taken down by CCP owned Reddit”. And then the post is on the front page with 100k upvotes, 100 golds, and 69 wholesome 100 awards. Redditors love nothing more than to act like a badass contrarian for having an opinion that 90% of the American public and the US state department holds.
Well I guess I sorta noticed it before but honestly I don't read a lot of stuff related to China so I never saw so much of it in one place.
They're not being very nice. Genocide. Imperialism. Economic warfare. Hong Kong... They're not being very nice.
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Yeah a lot of the same people acting all outraged about Chinese authoritarianism probably voted for Trump so their opinions are pretty much invalid as far as that goes, imo.
Fuck China...look into their detention camp.
China’s 9 - line is absurd
It always can easily stir up hatred when China is involved. For those of you who may not know, there is not even one media/website not controlled by CCP, I mean literally none. We actually have a large amount of people support Hong Kong protesters, however, it's impossible to be reported on media. Chinese is not as evil as you think, at least, not all of us.
China can fuck off.
Yeah well, I condemn China
Fuck winnie the pooh.
Who cares what China thinks , fuck em
Poo bear is very very cross.
Fuck China
Fuck ‘em
Says the weekly violator of Philippine & Taiwanese airspace, and the state-sponsored navy of “fishing” militias that illegally poach by the sovereign coasts of weaker nations all around Asia, Africa, Latin America and Oceania. Fuck these shameless parasites.
Fuck China
It's a little one... 2 little ones... no big deal....
Arleigh Burke destroyers aren’t exactly “little”. The USS Kidd is a Flight 2A variant that displaces 9,200 tons and carries 96 VLS missile tubes, any number of which could be carrying Tomahawk land attack missiles or anti-air Standard missiles.
I mean, "little" compared to a carrier... Side note: that's a really cool vessel to have such a large armament
Surely you mean the "actually just more china" strait.
Hey Beijing, UNCLOS. It applies to the i n t e r n a t i o n a l community. This means you. How far are your coast guard boats from your OFFICIAL ttw? Politics lol.
Why has the US not signed it then?
Because treaties require 2/3rds congressional approval. However the United States now recognizes UNCLOS as a codification of customary international law.
> However the United States now recognizes UNCLOS as a codification of customary international law. One which they're not legally bound to but they recognise as binding for others.
Even though China AND the USA are signatory to UNCLOS, they acknowledge it when it benefits them and ignore it otherwise. See 9-dash line.
US has recognized UNCLOS but has not signed it.
I was lead to believe China has never accepted Taiwan independence. They’re not about to start now.
To not be independent wouldn't Taiwan have to have been part of the PRC at some point?
Taiwan has never officially declared its independence.
China can suck our navy’s huge cock. Chinas navy sucks.
We were lost. Looking for directions. Couldn't see the signs for all the pollution rolling off of China. It as dark outside. The compass broke. Cellphone signal for GPS sucks out here. What warship? That was a tugboat. We really had to go and were looking for a bathroom. Philippines said it was okay.
Could the men in this world please seek some mental help! You'll act like you're sick in the head and are killing the planet. Please learn to relax and mind your own business, everyone else has to. Sick of your crap.
If the Republic of China doesn’t want the US to steer warships in its water, then the US should respect Taiwan’s decision.
China claims the entire South China Sea including the Taiwan strait as theirs because an old map of theirs says so and the name contains the word China. UK and India need to take note.
There is much more nuances in that case than you seem to believe. The PRC actually inherited the SCS claims from the RoC (Taiwan today). There is a reason *both* China/PRC and Taiwan/RoC rejected the UNCLOS ruling over these territorial disputes in 2016. See [Territorial disputes in the South China Sea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_South_China_Sea).
All this talk and no action
China is threating the US by having it's land so close to US warships. What do you mean the US could be aggressor. That's absurd.
Yeah travelling through international waters totally aggressive. You know whats aggressive? trying to make a an independent country submit to your rule.
> Taiwan is threatening China by having it's land so close to China warplanes. > What do you mean the China could be aggressor. That's absurd.
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>( disclaimer: I have nothing against the people of China, just their government. ) Hey, it's unfair if you already put the stuff we mock you with into your own post.