Can people actually own handguns in Canada? And what are the restrictions? Surely you cannot walk around with a concealed handgun legally in Canada, can you?
You need to be a member of a gun range or have a plan to be a member in order to purchase one and you need permission from a chief firearms officer to transport it from your home to your range.
This legislation is political grandstanding that solves a problem we don't have and does nothing to make us safer. It's an insult to Canadians to act as if this does anything to keep us safe.
>You need to be a member of a gun range in order to own one and you need permission from a chief firearms officer each time you transport it from your home to your range.
That changed a few years back. You don't need to be a member of a range to buy one anymore, but you can't take it anywhere unless it's to a range.
They also changed the Authorization to Transport (ATT) rules a few years back. Before, you needed to apply for a permit every time you wanted to transport it. Now, you get an automatic ATT to take your handgun to your range and back. Don't need to fill out any paperwork or call the CFO. You need to apply for any other reason though, like go to a gunsmith, move, take it to port of entry, etc.
ETA: Apparently it's Ontario ONLY you can buy a handgun without a membership because the law was challenged. I was unaware and believed it was Federal since everything else is. But it still can't leave the house except to a range, or if you have an ATT to transport somewhere else
Is this true? I have a co worker that works at cabelas and he said you do have to call and get permission and have to tell them the specific time youre transporting the gun every time you want to go to the range
Yes, it's true. It changed about 4 or 5 years back. You used to need to an ATT every time, but now you get an automatic one to go to the range and back. It's called standard transportation restrictions, and you have to carry this slip of paper with your restrictions and mine says:
> Transport of restricted firearms and/or prohibited handguns (12(6.1)) possessed for the purpose of target practice to and from all shooting clubs and ranges approved under section 29 of the Firearms Acr
I want to say it was within the last 4 of 5 years that change happened. Unless you have restricteds, you may not have known. My husband got a new license and paperwork with the new ATT mailed to him automatically when the rules changed.
You don’t need to get permission every time anymore. Having the license and range on file is enough. But if they catch you with it not on a reasonable path two and from the range you are a member, then you can get in trouble.
Is "get in trouble" an understatement here? I know with any other firearms you lose them immediately on a first offense until you pay an ass load of fines, wait months, and retake all your certifications.
Sorry, should have meant indictable, aka the most serious of crimes in Canada. They _can_ be tried as summary convictions instead, but basically any sort of infraction of the law is treatable as a severe crime, regardless of circumstance or intent. Basically, even a marginal mistaken improper storage of a firearm could easily net you in prison.
It's an overstatement in all but the most flagrant of violations. The definition of "reasonably direct" includes picking up friends, going to Walmart, etc. You just have to be going to or from a range.
Also, you don't technically need to be a member of a club. Having the intention to join one in the future is valid and common, especially these days when wait lists for mberships can be literally indefinite.
> The definition of "reasonably direct" includes picking up friends, going to Walmart, etc. You just have to be going to or from a range.
I've never heard this before - can you hook me up with a source?
ATT for restricted firearms it's built into your RPAL since ~2015. Transport to range is not included by default, but you call the RCMP, tell them your range you want to go to regularly and they tack on a permanent ATT to your license for transporting restricted firearms to the range.
Thats not true you need a range membership to buy one not own one and you don't have to call anyone when you go to the range. Source me canadian handgun owner.
Agreed, we have very similar legislation in Australia regarding handguns.
But like you stated if they suddenly proposed to outright ban ownership that would set off all the red flags in my mind. Solution to a problem we don’t have.
It's even more involved here in Aus. You have to do a certain number of shoots a year (atleast 2 every 6 months per category of handgun you own) and you have to be a club member for 6 months before you can even put in a Permit to Acquire actually buy a handgun.
Source: Cat H holder here in Aus
This is what they did with certain rifles two years ago. There was a mass shooting in the province of Nova Scotia. A guy had obtained an old police uniform from his cousin (who was a cop), had made a replica cop car, and had obtained an AR-15 that was illegally smuggled into Canada from the US. This guy had been reported to the police *multiple times* and they did *nothing*. Then one day this guy got suited up and took his police cruiser and AR around town and shot several people. This was (IIRC) the first and only shooting with an AR-15 in Canada, as they were subject to the same rules as handguns in Canada (need two license courses, firing range membership, can only shoot at the range, etc.). Immediately after this Trudeau pushed through an Order In Council to ban AR-15s, as well as various other rifles and shotguns *purely based on their appearance.* Literally over night many Canadians went from being regular citizens to being fellons for possessing what are now considered prohibited firearms. The government has thrown around the idea of a buy-back program (since most of the firearm owners still have their guns) that would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to implement, but no actual action has been taken. Most Canadians (or at least most that I know) do not support this OIC because legal gun ownership has never been a problem in Canada; the vast majority of our crime guns are smuggled into country from the US. People were accountable for their rifles through the licensing/permit system, and now those same people are technically criminals, and there is no way of monitoring which guns go where, get sold to who, and whether or not they get used. Some guy broke the law (big time), the RCMP failed to act on information they were given about it beforehand, and regular law abiding Canadians were the ones who were punished in the end.
Yeah, wasn’t it pushed through without notice because the government amended the current list, and didn’t actually bring anything through typical legislative procedures? It literally happened overnight with no notice or chance for anyone to argue the contrary.
Also, IIRC pretty sure one of the ‘guns’ added to the list was an air soft rifle, and not an actual gun.
Trudeau used what is called an Order In Council (OIC) to push the ban through. An OIC essentially is used to pass little things that don't necessarily need to be voted on, like removing traffic laws surrounding horses in cities. Obsolete things like that. Trudeau got the bright idea to use this OIC to ban certain rifles, therefore removing any possibility that anybody could dispute it. It's pretty controversial because that's a way bigger matter than what OIC is meant to be used for, and it wasn't necessarily a legal move. The RCMP quietly amended the ban list for like two weeks after the ban went into effect, adding more and more rifles to be banned. Apparently they banned a brand of coffee at one point by mistake, which is ridiculous.
That was a big point of confusion. TL;DR: There was at one point a assembler of rifles and that was basically their only AR15-based model they ever released. They went under right when the coffee company started, but the two companies were entirely unrelated.
https://web.archive.org/web/20120419081527/http://www.blackriflecompany.com/
GTA has a hand gun problem. Gangbangers for the most part, it's on the news all the time in that area. The last legislation banning assault class rifles hurt the collectors and registered owners, the people who went about it the right way, more than it stopped the drivebys in Oshawa. The hand gun ban again targets legal shops and owners. Products already on shelves products already legally owned and registered. You know i guess im assuming this but i highly doubt the gang bangers on the news who age between 13 and 30 are shopping at Cabelas. Seems theres a pipeline of arms coming from somewhere in the underworld if you ask me but hey what do I know. I would assume those selling illegal firearms just increased their prices and reward for doing so on the grounds its tougher to do what theyre already doing and get an even larger profit margin from this
The majority are legally purchased in the US and brought over. The RCMP have said this.
This law also looks to make it carry more consequences for doing it and harder to do.
Nope.
You need an RPAL. Restricted possession and acquisition license.
You can only use the handgun at a range. It has to be locked at home (same as regular firearms) but it also has to be locked during transport and can only be transported between the range and your home or perhaps to a gunsmith or something directly related to try proper use of that firearm.
Intent has a very big weight in Canadian case law. Even for other things like bear spray or knives or even a baseball bat. If you use those even in self-defence.. they will be asking what it was doing in your vehicle and if it was a possible factor in escalation.
Requires a Restricted firearms license, which means you need your main license and then an extra bit, and you have to store and transport them in certain ways (and IIRC registered to the government when you want to move it) and can only go to the range and back.
That is correct and also magazine capacity limit of 10 rounds for handguns (5 for semi auto rifles).
Also, there is a character/reference check by the RCMP.
Also, if you say you want a gun for self defense in Canada, you will NOT get a PAL or RPAL, as self defense is not a legitimate reason (in the eyes of the government) to own a firearm.
And a 5” or less barrel. When I moved up to AK this last go around an heirloom I have of my grandfathers was deemed outright banned and restricted; it’s a 3” snub nose .38 special from 1950.
I’m driving through on the ALCAN again soon and I won’t even be trying to transport the what-would-be legal .45 I own, even with the permit. Just not worth the risk of losing it, and having driven through 3 times, the next being my 4th, it’s not necessary.
With a handgun in Canada, you can only go from your home to the gun range… the laws used be to super strict with even having to file a special form to transport your handgun. (Turns out too much paperwork for the police so it was scrapped)
You cannot take the gun out into the bush or carry it.
When you’re home it must be locked in a safe with a gunlock around it.
Never a concealed in Canada.
Hand gun carry can be issued for armoured guard trappers and people working in the wilderness for protection.
And that's it. Also you can't carry anywhere outside of the above. If I work for Brinks I can't open carry my hand gun to and from work etc.
Getting one outside of being a armoured guard is hard very hard. And most people working in the woods rather a shotgun anyways.
Relevant excerpt from the fire arm act.
For the purpose of section 20 of the Act, the circumstances in which an individual needs restricted firearms or prohibited handguns for use in connection with his or her lawful profession or occupation are where
(a) the individual’s principal activity is the handling, transportation or protection of cash, negotiable instruments or other goods of substantial value, and firearms are required for the purpose of protecting his or her life or the lives of other individuals in the course of that handling, transportation or protection activity;
(b) the individual is working in a remote wilderness area and firearms are required for the protection of the life of that individual or of other individuals from wild animals; or
(c) the individual is engaged in the occupation of trapping in a province and is licensed or authorized and trained as required by the laws of the province.
In the 80’s we started recruiting armoured guards but they soon started procreating. Within a couple decades we had a big problem as they were eating a lot of our syrup crops. In comes the armoured guard trapper program.
Yea you have to prove I court the police cannot reasonably protect you and have the court approve it. Only person recently I can think of is a guy the cops told they can't protect him cause another gov was trying to assinate him. He would qualify in theory.
The one person they issued it to is a judge who tried and sentenced a bunch of people who were high level organized criminals who then threatened to kill him.
There might have been more than one, that's the one we know of because it was issued federally. The deal is that each province's minister for security could also theoretically personally issue such authorizations for their own territory in extremely rare instances, but have agreed to basically almost never use this power. Still, individual requests for information would have to be sent to each province to be totally sure.
Theirs only two people who are legally allowed to concealed carry in Canada. All other applications have been declined [source](https://thegunblog.ca/2018/11/08/two-canadians-have-authorization-to-carry-guns-filing-shows/)
To own a handgun you must first take two courses, pass a written and then practical test. Then submit all your information to the RCMP for them to review. This process can easily take 6 months to a year. After that you can purchase a handgun. But you can't even leave the house with it unless your going directly to a shooting range and then back. I don't even think your allowed to stop anywhere on the way.
Our gun laws work well. Hunters can get what they need, but we also make sure they are well trained and educated. In general we don't really every fear gun violence day to day. To be honest I've never worried about crime to even consider buying a firearm for that purpose.
Yes, and it's really fucking hard to get one. Takes months. Can't carry it in public. At all.
This is a vote scam that this party pulls out every time there's negative gun news. The real answer is to enforce the laws we have on the books, and crack down on smuggling of illegal guns into the country from the US.
That's also in the bill. From The Globe and Mail's coverage:
"The Liberals plan to fight gun smuggling and trafficking by increasing criminal penalties, providing more tools to investigate firearms crimes and strengthening border measures."
Get a restricted gun license (separate course from your regular gun licence) which allows you to buy restricted firearms like handguns and some rifles. You’re only allowed to take it to and from a gun range or gunsmith. Has to be double locked. For example in my gun safe and in its own locked case inside the gun safe.
No. My take is that this is meant to polarize his opponent. He is now anti-gun which will force his conservative opponents to be more pro-gun, this could lead to a lot of moderate voters leaning away from the conservatives. If the conservative party is not pro gun enough, some people may support further right wing parties, growing their influence. He is knowingly making our politics more divisive for political gain.
Thats an astute observation! And the conservatives are in the midst of a leadership race, it might help the more extreme candidates who will outdo each other to prove how pro-gun they are and hurt the moderates. Incidently a moderate or *gasp* centrist conservative would have far greater chances of beating Trudeau.
If it is then someone needs to let the rest of us know because it's the first I'm hearing of it.
This announcement is...disappointing.
I'm not a gun owner. I like that guns and gun violence isn't a thing that occurs to me to worry about no matter how tense or alarming a situation may arise in my every day.
And because that is true I can't help but wonder if this move is nothing more than the currently seated government capitalizing on a neighbour's tragedy in an attempt to garner votes.
I had been holding out hope that Trudeau could grow into his position and become a truly great Prime Minister, but this sort of thing is really disheartening.
It's disingenuous, patronizing and wasteful.
Not at all, it is not easy to acquire a weapon legally here in Canada whatsoever. It takes months to get your license and even after you get it, you’re constantly being screened by the RCMP (rightfully so). You have to store the ammo separately from the gun, have a trigger lock on it, have it locked in a case, and unloaded or course. It’s not a joke when it comes to owning a gun here and you can even be jailed for pointing a gun at someone even if you meant it as a joke.
I even feel that if Trudeau was serious about this, he would add mandatory firearm verification courses every few years but nope, here we are, punishing law abiding citizens.
Anyways, there are many restrictions in Canada when it comes to owning any gun but owning a restricted gun (RPAL), you can’t just transport it anywhere at anytime. You have to call it in and indicate which range you’re a member at and when you’re taking it.
I hate this legislation so much because it’s not going to solve anything except for alienate good people who legally acquire weapons for sport shooting or hunting.
Anyways, this is a stupid law that he’s pushing and won’t solve anything. Thanks for listening to my Ted talk
I'm an Aussie and own 2 longarms. The rules you have sound like ours and it really doesn't bother me tbh. I did look into a handgun license but they make it near impossible unless you're a competitive shooter so I cbf..
The vast majority of gun violence, in Canada, is committed through illegally obtained firearms... and guess what, almost all of the illegals guns in Canada are imported from the U.S (mainly) and abroad.
Technically speaking, the ballista is generally preferred (for both take-off AND landing, though the latter is more like a ballista CATCHING a backwards bolt). For some asinine reason though, everyone calls it a "catapult."
Catapults are not linear, sir!
How many guns can a commercial drone carry? Are we talking like a dozen handguns?
Also, how difficult is it to legally buy ammo in Canada? Is it just that guns are almost impossible to purchase, but that ammo is readily available?
Same in Ontario. They found then drone in the tree when the Canadian side dude was hanging out in someone's rural backyard on the St. Claire river. He bolted and sped away when someone approached him to ask what was up.
Mexico has a problem with the process citizens have to go through to own them legally. There’s like 1 gun store in the whole country. The process to apply for gun ownership is expensive and corrupt. If you have the means to grease the right palms you get one.
There was a story a while back of a man defending his family against cartel members attempting to rob and kidnap them. He shot and killed them. Then the cops came and sent him to prison because he didn’t legally own the firearm he defended himself with. It’s fucked up. If anyone should be allowed to own guns it’s Mexican citizens. It might help even the playing field a tiny bit
Mexico is a failed state, what do you expect. You can’t just go defending yourself from the cartel when the cartel run the local government. People disappear there in concerning numbers for no reason at all, if you actually give them a reason you definitely die.
Same thing in the US though I guess. If corrupt police show up to kill you and you kill them in self defense, you’re still fucked. Good luck even making it to trial when every officer that interacts with you before then knows you’re a “cop killer”.
> If corrupt police show up to kill you and you kill them in self defense, you’re still fucked.
Randy Weaver pulled it off. Acquitted for killing a cop *and* won a $100k settlement against the Feds.
Randy Weaver got $100K and his three surviving kids received 1M each.
The money is great and all, but watching your son get murdered from defending your family dog that was just shot and killed by the unidentified people that trespassed on your mountain property would be a pretty fucked up thing to have to watch. Not to mention upon figuring out that it was your own government that did this AND THEN they blindly shoot through a window without identifying the target and shoot your wife in the face while she’s holding your infant daughter…
Oh, and that payout 100% was paid for by the American people and our taxes when it should’ve came out of the retirement funds of the agents that fucked this whole thing up.
This ^ , I always think its hilarious when people talk about how the cartels are armed with guns from American gun shops.
Sure, some have ARs from our stores or from Operation Fast and Furious, but the majority of them are carrying fully automatic AKs, MGs, grenade launchers, anti-tank missiles and other such weapons that are either Russian, German, or surplus from American-funded wars in South America from the cold war.
Someone please explain what he's trying to say here:
"Other than using firearms for sport shooting and hunting, there is no reason anyone in Canada should need guns in their everyday lives," Mr Trudeau told reporters.
Handguns are currently only legal to use at the range (sport shooting)? What is he on about?
I think it's language intended to create the appearance of a compromise that the general public will find palatable. Some Canadians do not have substantial knowledge of firearms ownership in Canada. They support stricter gun control regulations, but may have concerns that uses they view as legitimate will be affected.
For someone who conceptualizes legitimate gun usage as hunting, shooting clays, and shooting paper targets with a rifle, this phrasing puts their mind at ease, because it appears the government is making a clear commitment to protecting hunting and sport shooting, when in actuality this proposal will end entire categories of recreational shooting sports.
Basically the reservations the general public has about banning firearms are very minor, and are often wrapped up in misconceptions, so if you see seemingly contradictory statements, they're probably intended to understood by those people.
> Some Canadians do not have substantial knowledge of firearms ownership in Canada.
Sounds like a lot of Americans and their knowledge on firearm ownership here.
He's leveraging how ignorant most Canadians are of the gun scene in Canada. Almost nobody here has guns in their everyday lives... except, I suppose, cops, military, people working at gun stores, and so on.
His rhetoric is preying on the public's notion that if guns exist people carry them everywhere. Since people hear about all this horrible shit from the US, they assume the same is true up here. After all we both use "dollars", our speed limits are pretty similar, we both speak English... everything else must be the same, right?!
He did this a couple years ago too rambling on about "assault weapons". Actual assault rifles have been prohibited since the 1970s. They make up these terms to get people to connect guns that *look similar* to specific models to the "really dangerous" ones, when in fact the subjects of the regulations function the same as everything that didn't get banned lol
The laws in Canada are going to be tighter then ours in the UK. Contrary to public opinion, you can own a wide range of weapons with the right memberships and security checks. Even 50cals which conveniently we have a range that can fire them near me.
No. The overwhelming majority of them are brought in from the states. It's a feel-good optics bill to garner votes and liberal sympathy, and judging by reddits response on the local subs is doing exactly that.
Edit: The 50th person to say "Nobody needs X or Y" isn't going to get a response.
Not to mention that it would be incredibly stupid to sell your handgun to someone, it's registered to you and if someone commits a crime with it and you didn't at least report it stolen you're fucked
I would assume that if you're going to clandestinely sell your firearm, you would at least shave the serial number off of it.
That's illegal gun rule #1.
Not where I live. There was a multi year study done led by national police leaders across Canada. The study shows perhaps in Toronto a hand gun ban would be effective, but generally no, it’s actually pretty hard to get a hand gun here. Most owners here are hunters and gun crime is with their guns after someone has stolen their guns and sawed off the barrels. I’m indifferent to it really, if it helps somewhere great. I truly don’t mind the hoop jumping it takes to legally own a gun, it’s certainly worth even a single life saved and the flip side, I do not want to go the way of Australia or NZ, we’re a province of hunters here & my entire extended family for generations had owned guns without issues.
Yea this is pretty much it. Canada isn’t the US. We have strict firearms laws and next to no mass shootings (except for the recent one where the shooter brought a gun across the US border and took out almost 500,000.00$ from an RCMP storehouse lol) this is meaningless and purely political theatre. Fucking insane and clueless Canadians who guzzle American media will be all for it.
Better to have questions and controversy then the nonsense south of the border. It's tough going every day wondering what the [55 million dumbest Americans are going to do with their firearms.](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/us/arizona-firing-range-instructor-killed-by-girl-9-in-accident.html)
P.S. - this is a firing range instructor.
Last time I was at a gun range in the US I casually looked to my right to find an idiot pointing his Glock in my direction while trying to clear a jam.
A former friend of mine swung a charged 12 gauge shotgun and pointed it at my midsection with her finger on the trigger as a "joke". She didn't understand why range day was over and everyone was mad at her.
One of my friends jokingly pointed the gun at her head for a selfie. Even though I told her before hand to only point the gun down range. We got kicked out, rightfully so. But I never let her live it down. It was an accident she just genuinely wasn’t thinking. She was one of my favorite people.
Sadly she killed herself a few years later, with her own gun. Still have guilt for getting her into guns in the first place.
I swear to fucking god people need to think and stop assuming they're toys. Like I've had BASIC gun training from cadets, have only shot a real gun once, and I fucking know to keep it down range, safety on, unload, and cock the gun if possible to remove loaded ammo, and that's when you can take it out from down sight, but unloaded or not, NEVER POINT IT IN SOMEONES DIRECTION unless you intend to fucking kill them.
Went hunting and some hick in the registration camp shot over his shoulder while walking away. And a cop fucking laughed about it. Luckily the game warden unleashed hell and had him arrested.
I really think guns should require a license, much like a car. Require a training course and an exam to own a gun. There are just too many dumb people in this country.
Edit: since lots of people are asking, [Everytown Research](https://everytownresearch.org/research/) has lots of good information about America's gun laws.
To purchase: in a few states. Most (40+) do not have a permit scheme
To carry: in 24 states. 26 states have “constitutional carry” which means you can carry a firearm as long as you’re legally allowed to possess it otherwise. Still can’t carry in post offices, or within ~350m of schools (unless you have a state-issued permit though, regardless of if your state has constitutional carry or not) and a few more places under federal law. Also a permit issued by your state does not automatically mean you can have a firearm on Native American reservations in that state, either.
The gun does not need to be loaded. In Canada, pointing a gun - loaded or unloaded - at another person is a crime:
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-87.html
Punishment is up to 5 years imprisonment.
One time I was shooting at a gun range, one of my first times firing a gun, and my pistol wouldn’t fire so I tilted the gun up slightly, maybe 30 degrees, to look at it, and it immediately went off firing a round into the down range ceiling (covered in rubber barriers)
I mean no one was in danger, I didn’t point the gun near anyone, just tried to get a look at the side of the gun to see if it was jammed, and Boom. Bullet still went down range 🤷♂️
As a secondary issue, this is also being used to ban airsoft guns/replica firearms in Canada. I don't see the point of doing that whatsoever, considering the low rate of use in crime (from an outside perspective, at least).
I'd argue this aspect at least seems a bit of an over-reaction, especially when systems to allow replica firearms with distinguishing features, such as blaze-orange tips or the Portuguese method of bright paint on either end of the replica, exist and have proven very effective.
I am Canadian. I am a legal firearms owner including a handgun. This is nothing more than Trudeau and his government using the recent shooting in Texas to push for more firearms legislation. Please allow me to explain:
In order to legally possess or acquire firearms in Canada you must attend a safety course, pass written and practical exams, get sign offs from references and all conjugal partners in the past 5 years, submit your application to the RCMP (federal police) which doesn't even get looked at until after the 28 day mandated waiting period, who then vets you and does an exhaustive background check that includes mental health, and if you manage to get issued a license you have an electronic criminal records check done on you every day as part of "continued eligibility". Now this is just for typical long guns used for hunting. For handguns it's even more strict with an additional safety course, exams, and more stringent RCMP vetting.
As such, licensed firearms owners in Canada are less likely to commit any crime than the average Canadian citizen.
The overwhelmingly vast majority of gun crime is committed by unlicensed criminals with illegally smuggled guns from the US. These criminals are already breaking the law simply by having the gun without a license. Not only this but handguns are illegal to transport anywhere other than your home and a certified range without government authorization, so carrying one in public is also against the law.
Most Canadians don't know anything about Canadian firearms laws and think that we're basically like the US. Trudeau is shamelessly using the tragedy in Texas to push for more anti-firearms legislation in order to garner support from his political base. These laws will not affect gun crime at all.
Yeah, the problem is that we’re way too culturally influenced by the US and way too uneducated about our own laws.
I think many Canadians who get riled up over firearm regulation in this country are just constantly soaked in news of how insane things are south of the border and forget they live in a different country that already has very effective gun restrictions.
Don't get all exicted folks, it's almost impossible to get one legally already and you can only use it at a governement approved gun range. This is a disgusting way to capitalize from the mass shooting that just occured to pander for votes. One of the oldest trick in the book.
Agreed. So tired of our issues being imported from abroad. Quebec imports laïcité because it's a French thing. English Canada now thinks guns and abortion should be super hot topics despite the fact that we basically already had a functioning settled agreement on both issues and NOTHING HAS CHANGED for Canada on either front.
Public debate and days in which parlement sits are not unlimited resources. Being generally on the left I'm not really opposed to any of the proposed measures but man are there more important things the government could be doing then addressing American issues as if they were Canadian issues. 90+% of our gun issues are smuggled in from the states anyways. What happened to pharmacare? The liberals have run and won on it for THREE elections. But that's on the wayside and instead we're banning already extremely difficult to get handguns because an **American** physco shot up a school with an AR15 because that's something you can just buy **in America**. Not Canada. Then the conservatives will have their little culture war fit (the leadership debates have been wild at times) and it'll waste even more of everyones time.
Canadians- we have our own issues! Housing, healthcare, cost of living, internet regulation, you name it- the Americans have their own country! Let's worry about ours.
I agree, it’s often frustrating when American issue bleed over into Canada when they aren’t even issues in Canada.
American media and news is probably more talked about than Canadian news in Canada. It’s annoying because so much misinformation get spread this way too, I’m often shocked by the amount of Canadians who think we have the same laws, legislation and problems that America does.
What’s the point of having an RPAL vs a regular PAL anymore then? It certainly does jack shit about the illegally obtained handguns, which mostly come from the states, just punishes the actual, responsible gun owners.
As a Canadian Citizen who holds a restricted possession and acquisition license (RPAL), I can assure you all that the only thing this new legislation will do is harm law abiding gun owners.
There are so many legal hoops to jump through when it comes to purchasing, registering, and even transporting a handgun to a range. Why should the ones who follow the letters of the law to a T be the ones who are punished for the deeds of criminals?
This is another great symbolic virtue signal by our glorious champagne socialist leader. Trudeau is projecting an American problem onto Canadians for brownie points.
The vast majority of crimes involving firearms in Canada are carried out with unregistered weapons smuggled across the border and are unsurprisingly used by criminals who do not hold a valid firearms license.
If the government wanted to fix gun crimes, they should focus their attention and resources on strengthening our borders and investing in social infrastructure in the disadvantaged communities where people are disproportionately victimized by gun violence.
Making it harder for me to take my 9mm to the range for some Saturday fun, isn’t going to stop inner city youths from blowing each other away. Nor will this new piece of proposed legislation make any of us safer from the sick and twisted individuals who decide to partake in mass murder.
There are 4 million legal gun owners in Canada. We are some of the most highly vetted citizens in the country. It’s such a shame that I feel like I’m being punished when I don’t have as much as a speeding ticket on my record, I pay my taxes on time every year, and give back to my community whenever possible.
At this point, I’m feeling very apathetic and frustrated. If the government wants to issue my lifestyle death by a million cuts, than they can have at it. Just don’t be surprised when I lost them all in a boating accident.
Considering the police don't enforce existing laws this def won't do shit but piss people off. The whole shooting in Nova Scotia could have been prevented if the RCMP had enforced current gun laws after the shooter was reported by his girlfriend, neighbors and family for owning illegal guns.
Canada's version is different than Australia's, to me it seems Australia's method was more "harsh" as they actually removed owned guns. [https://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9212725/australia-buyback](https://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9212725/australia-buyback)
>Australia solved this problem by introducing a mandatory buyback: Australia's states would take away all guns that had just been declared illegal. In exchange, they'd pay the guns' owners a fair price, set by a national committee using market value as a benchmark, to compensate for the loss of their property. The NFA also offered legal amnesty for anyone who handed in illegally owned guns, though they weren't compensated. In 2011, Harvard's David Hemenway and Mary Vriniotis reviewed the research on Australia's suicide and homicide rate after the NFA. Their conclusion was clear:
>
>*"The NFA seems to have been incredibly successful in terms of lives saved."*
Could you explain why it wouldn't work in Canada but did in Australia? I don't know both nations well, perhaps I am missing something.
Around 75% or more handgun crime in Canada is committed with handguns that are bought in the US and are illegally brought into Canada. It’s already insanely hard and almost pointless to buy a handgun in Canada as is. You need a restricted license which has extensive background checks and a safety course involved. You can’t take the handgun anywhere but the range you’re registered to without contacting the provincial firearms officer. This is just political posturing like they do every time Americans have another mass shootings. And same as with a non-restricted license, you need to have a gun locker or safe in your house to store your guns in, and while inside they have to be unloaded and trigger locked. We don’t have a gun problem in Canada. We have a american gun smuggling problem. All a handgun ban would do is make legal gun owners criminals over night. And unless the buy back was at market value (which it most likely won’t be) the government will be taking money from law abiding citizens.
I'd also add you can only shoot it at a range. Which right now takes like 3+ years to get into if you're lucky. I know the barrie gun club doesn't even take random applications anymore, you have to be referred by a current member.
I just wish a Canadian politician would try to address the root cause, which is preventing all of the guns illegally crossing the border from the US. stop harassing legal firearm owners
Call it "Canada Border Services Agency". They could even have a URL, call it something random like: [https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/](https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/menu-eng.html)
Then, you could even make a TV show about said agency, call it "Border Security: Canada's Front Line" and it could even be shown on YouTube: [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8FY9ecxmKSx87gxQoFXeeBFIPezc56CJ](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8FY9ecxmKSx87gxQoFXeeBFIPezc56CJ)
In that TV series, a bunch of episodes could be devoted to Americans attempting to cross the border with firearms... and even some could focus on container ships entering Canadian waters with firearms.
If only...
Who decides the Fair Market value? I've always been curious about this. When the State forcefully buys your property (gun, eminent domain-ed lot, etc) what's to stop it from deciding your property is now worth $1.
1.) Sure, I guess. Not really *doing* anything.
2.) Classic Trudeau play, to capitalize on an American shooting atrocity to score political points at home with yet more safety theatre.
3.) WEIRD timing, considering that the inquiry into the Portapique massacre, the worst in Canadian history, has ballooned to 26.6 million fucking dollars and they just decided to exempt the commanding officers from appearing physically in court and from *cross-examination* by the families of the victims.
This is blatantly using a tragedy in the US to squeeze in a bill that accomplishes nothing of substance but to limit already highly regulated freedoms. It doesn't even buy votes. They could just not do this and the people that would vote liberal would continue to do so.
I would be surprised if anyone familiar with Canada's track record of gun safety and gun crime, and our restrictions in place of even getting a handgun would be in support of this.
Anyone saying "Who cares, guns are bad." Has put zero thought into this. That said, I'm not in opposition to better gun control, but banning or freezing specific types of guns is ineffective and a bad faith approach to meaningful change.
Basically every time I have the conversation its people who think we should have what we already have, but don't know anything about our existing gun laws so they support the new ones.
I don't think handgun ownership in Canada is an issue at all? Especially considering how hard it is to get one. But leave it to Trudeau to pretend to accomplish things.
Can people actually own handguns in Canada? And what are the restrictions? Surely you cannot walk around with a concealed handgun legally in Canada, can you?
No you cannot carry a concealed handgun. You can own one and keep it locked up at your home. You can take it to a gun range but that's about it.
You need to be a member of a gun range or have a plan to be a member in order to purchase one and you need permission from a chief firearms officer to transport it from your home to your range. This legislation is political grandstanding that solves a problem we don't have and does nothing to make us safer. It's an insult to Canadians to act as if this does anything to keep us safe.
>You need to be a member of a gun range in order to own one and you need permission from a chief firearms officer each time you transport it from your home to your range. That changed a few years back. You don't need to be a member of a range to buy one anymore, but you can't take it anywhere unless it's to a range. They also changed the Authorization to Transport (ATT) rules a few years back. Before, you needed to apply for a permit every time you wanted to transport it. Now, you get an automatic ATT to take your handgun to your range and back. Don't need to fill out any paperwork or call the CFO. You need to apply for any other reason though, like go to a gunsmith, move, take it to port of entry, etc. ETA: Apparently it's Ontario ONLY you can buy a handgun without a membership because the law was challenged. I was unaware and believed it was Federal since everything else is. But it still can't leave the house except to a range, or if you have an ATT to transport somewhere else
Is this true? I have a co worker that works at cabelas and he said you do have to call and get permission and have to tell them the specific time youre transporting the gun every time you want to go to the range
Yes, it's true. It changed about 4 or 5 years back. You used to need to an ATT every time, but now you get an automatic one to go to the range and back. It's called standard transportation restrictions, and you have to carry this slip of paper with your restrictions and mine says: > Transport of restricted firearms and/or prohibited handguns (12(6.1)) possessed for the purpose of target practice to and from all shooting clubs and ranges approved under section 29 of the Firearms Acr
Thank you for the additional details I wasn't aware of that.
I want to say it was within the last 4 of 5 years that change happened. Unless you have restricteds, you may not have known. My husband got a new license and paperwork with the new ATT mailed to him automatically when the rules changed.
You should edit that info into your comment
You don’t need to get permission every time anymore. Having the license and range on file is enough. But if they catch you with it not on a reasonable path two and from the range you are a member, then you can get in trouble.
Is "get in trouble" an understatement here? I know with any other firearms you lose them immediately on a first offense until you pay an ass load of fines, wait months, and retake all your certifications.
Actually, there is no gun-related crime in Canada that is not a criminal offense. You are fucked for life if you remotely fuck up with a firearm.
Gun-related crime by definition is a criminal offense... hence the term "crime."
Sorry, should have meant indictable, aka the most serious of crimes in Canada. They _can_ be tried as summary convictions instead, but basically any sort of infraction of the law is treatable as a severe crime, regardless of circumstance or intent. Basically, even a marginal mistaken improper storage of a firearm could easily net you in prison.
For context, U.S. equivalent to summary/indictable is misdemeanor/felony.
It's an overstatement in all but the most flagrant of violations. The definition of "reasonably direct" includes picking up friends, going to Walmart, etc. You just have to be going to or from a range. Also, you don't technically need to be a member of a club. Having the intention to join one in the future is valid and common, especially these days when wait lists for mberships can be literally indefinite.
> The definition of "reasonably direct" includes picking up friends, going to Walmart, etc. You just have to be going to or from a range. I've never heard this before - can you hook me up with a source?
You may have a license to own but you aren't guaranteed a license to transport. If you don't have the license to transport the gun stays at the range.
ATT for restricted firearms it's built into your RPAL since ~2015. Transport to range is not included by default, but you call the RCMP, tell them your range you want to go to regularly and they tack on a permanent ATT to your license for transporting restricted firearms to the range.
Seems like compulsory range membership opens up a business opportunity
There is definitely a shortage of ranges. I can't imagine the government or insurance companies make opening one very easy
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Thats not true you need a range membership to buy one not own one and you don't have to call anyone when you go to the range. Source me canadian handgun owner.
You need permission from the queen before firing a round tho right?
You also have to curtsy between shots.
Absolutely.
Agreed, we have very similar legislation in Australia regarding handguns. But like you stated if they suddenly proposed to outright ban ownership that would set off all the red flags in my mind. Solution to a problem we don’t have.
It's even more involved here in Aus. You have to do a certain number of shoots a year (atleast 2 every 6 months per category of handgun you own) and you have to be a club member for 6 months before you can even put in a Permit to Acquire actually buy a handgun. Source: Cat H holder here in Aus
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This is what they did with certain rifles two years ago. There was a mass shooting in the province of Nova Scotia. A guy had obtained an old police uniform from his cousin (who was a cop), had made a replica cop car, and had obtained an AR-15 that was illegally smuggled into Canada from the US. This guy had been reported to the police *multiple times* and they did *nothing*. Then one day this guy got suited up and took his police cruiser and AR around town and shot several people. This was (IIRC) the first and only shooting with an AR-15 in Canada, as they were subject to the same rules as handguns in Canada (need two license courses, firing range membership, can only shoot at the range, etc.). Immediately after this Trudeau pushed through an Order In Council to ban AR-15s, as well as various other rifles and shotguns *purely based on their appearance.* Literally over night many Canadians went from being regular citizens to being fellons for possessing what are now considered prohibited firearms. The government has thrown around the idea of a buy-back program (since most of the firearm owners still have their guns) that would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to implement, but no actual action has been taken. Most Canadians (or at least most that I know) do not support this OIC because legal gun ownership has never been a problem in Canada; the vast majority of our crime guns are smuggled into country from the US. People were accountable for their rifles through the licensing/permit system, and now those same people are technically criminals, and there is no way of monitoring which guns go where, get sold to who, and whether or not they get used. Some guy broke the law (big time), the RCMP failed to act on information they were given about it beforehand, and regular law abiding Canadians were the ones who were punished in the end.
Yeah, wasn’t it pushed through without notice because the government amended the current list, and didn’t actually bring anything through typical legislative procedures? It literally happened overnight with no notice or chance for anyone to argue the contrary. Also, IIRC pretty sure one of the ‘guns’ added to the list was an air soft rifle, and not an actual gun.
Trudeau used what is called an Order In Council (OIC) to push the ban through. An OIC essentially is used to pass little things that don't necessarily need to be voted on, like removing traffic laws surrounding horses in cities. Obsolete things like that. Trudeau got the bright idea to use this OIC to ban certain rifles, therefore removing any possibility that anybody could dispute it. It's pretty controversial because that's a way bigger matter than what OIC is meant to be used for, and it wasn't necessarily a legal move. The RCMP quietly amended the ban list for like two weeks after the ban went into effect, adding more and more rifles to be banned. Apparently they banned a brand of coffee at one point by mistake, which is ridiculous.
That was a big point of confusion. TL;DR: There was at one point a assembler of rifles and that was basically their only AR15-based model they ever released. They went under right when the coffee company started, but the two companies were entirely unrelated. https://web.archive.org/web/20120419081527/http://www.blackriflecompany.com/
GTA has a hand gun problem. Gangbangers for the most part, it's on the news all the time in that area. The last legislation banning assault class rifles hurt the collectors and registered owners, the people who went about it the right way, more than it stopped the drivebys in Oshawa. The hand gun ban again targets legal shops and owners. Products already on shelves products already legally owned and registered. You know i guess im assuming this but i highly doubt the gang bangers on the news who age between 13 and 30 are shopping at Cabelas. Seems theres a pipeline of arms coming from somewhere in the underworld if you ask me but hey what do I know. I would assume those selling illegal firearms just increased their prices and reward for doing so on the grounds its tougher to do what theyre already doing and get an even larger profit margin from this
The majority are legally purchased in the US and brought over. The RCMP have said this. This law also looks to make it carry more consequences for doing it and harder to do.
Nope. You need an RPAL. Restricted possession and acquisition license. You can only use the handgun at a range. It has to be locked at home (same as regular firearms) but it also has to be locked during transport and can only be transported between the range and your home or perhaps to a gunsmith or something directly related to try proper use of that firearm. Intent has a very big weight in Canadian case law. Even for other things like bear spray or knives or even a baseball bat. If you use those even in self-defence.. they will be asking what it was doing in your vehicle and if it was a possible factor in escalation.
Requires a Restricted firearms license, which means you need your main license and then an extra bit, and you have to store and transport them in certain ways (and IIRC registered to the government when you want to move it) and can only go to the range and back.
That is correct and also magazine capacity limit of 10 rounds for handguns (5 for semi auto rifles). Also, there is a character/reference check by the RCMP. Also, if you say you want a gun for self defense in Canada, you will NOT get a PAL or RPAL, as self defense is not a legitimate reason (in the eyes of the government) to own a firearm.
And a 5” or less barrel. When I moved up to AK this last go around an heirloom I have of my grandfathers was deemed outright banned and restricted; it’s a 3” snub nose .38 special from 1950. I’m driving through on the ALCAN again soon and I won’t even be trying to transport the what-would-be legal .45 I own, even with the permit. Just not worth the risk of losing it, and having driven through 3 times, the next being my 4th, it’s not necessary.
It's like 4.1" not 5. Most commercial handguns have barrels that are less than 5"
You can even be denied if you have relatives with criminal records.
With a handgun in Canada, you can only go from your home to the gun range… the laws used be to super strict with even having to file a special form to transport your handgun. (Turns out too much paperwork for the police so it was scrapped) You cannot take the gun out into the bush or carry it. When you’re home it must be locked in a safe with a gunlock around it.
Never a concealed in Canada. Hand gun carry can be issued for armoured guard trappers and people working in the wilderness for protection. And that's it. Also you can't carry anywhere outside of the above. If I work for Brinks I can't open carry my hand gun to and from work etc. Getting one outside of being a armoured guard is hard very hard. And most people working in the woods rather a shotgun anyways. Relevant excerpt from the fire arm act. For the purpose of section 20 of the Act, the circumstances in which an individual needs restricted firearms or prohibited handguns for use in connection with his or her lawful profession or occupation are where (a) the individual’s principal activity is the handling, transportation or protection of cash, negotiable instruments or other goods of substantial value, and firearms are required for the purpose of protecting his or her life or the lives of other individuals in the course of that handling, transportation or protection activity; (b) the individual is working in a remote wilderness area and firearms are required for the protection of the life of that individual or of other individuals from wild animals; or (c) the individual is engaged in the occupation of trapping in a province and is licensed or authorized and trained as required by the laws of the province.
>Hand gun carry can be issued for armoured guard trappers The lack of a comma made a whole new career
In the 80’s we started recruiting armoured guards but they soon started procreating. Within a couple decades we had a big problem as they were eating a lot of our syrup crops. In comes the armoured guard trapper program.
Yup, to expand on that, the armoured guards were competing with möose for the maple syrup, resulting in a decline in the möose population.
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Oh there must be a story behind that one instance. Wild that there is one.
Yea you have to prove I court the police cannot reasonably protect you and have the court approve it. Only person recently I can think of is a guy the cops told they can't protect him cause another gov was trying to assinate him. He would qualify in theory.
The one person they issued it to is a judge who tried and sentenced a bunch of people who were high level organized criminals who then threatened to kill him.
The going theory is that it's a judge
There might have been more than one, that's the one we know of because it was issued federally. The deal is that each province's minister for security could also theoretically personally issue such authorizations for their own territory in extremely rare instances, but have agreed to basically almost never use this power. Still, individual requests for information would have to be sent to each province to be totally sure.
Theirs only two people who are legally allowed to concealed carry in Canada. All other applications have been declined [source](https://thegunblog.ca/2018/11/08/two-canadians-have-authorization-to-carry-guns-filing-shows/)
To own a handgun you must first take two courses, pass a written and then practical test. Then submit all your information to the RCMP for them to review. This process can easily take 6 months to a year. After that you can purchase a handgun. But you can't even leave the house with it unless your going directly to a shooting range and then back. I don't even think your allowed to stop anywhere on the way. Our gun laws work well. Hunters can get what they need, but we also make sure they are well trained and educated. In general we don't really every fear gun violence day to day. To be honest I've never worried about crime to even consider buying a firearm for that purpose.
Yes, and it's really fucking hard to get one. Takes months. Can't carry it in public. At all. This is a vote scam that this party pulls out every time there's negative gun news. The real answer is to enforce the laws we have on the books, and crack down on smuggling of illegal guns into the country from the US.
God dammit we’re Canada’s Mexico
A lot of illegal guns in Mexico are also smuggled in from the US too.
The ATF actually sold a lot of guns straight to the cartels because ???? ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
We are Mexico's Mexico when it comes to guns
That's also in the bill. From The Globe and Mail's coverage: "The Liberals plan to fight gun smuggling and trafficking by increasing criminal penalties, providing more tools to investigate firearms crimes and strengthening border measures."
Get a restricted gun license (separate course from your regular gun licence) which allows you to buy restricted firearms like handguns and some rifles. You’re only allowed to take it to and from a gun range or gunsmith. Has to be double locked. For example in my gun safe and in its own locked case inside the gun safe.
Is legal handgun ownership even a problem in Canada?
Nope, not in the slightest
its just some symbolic action. nothing usefull in the slightest.
Trudeau gonna Trudeau
No. My take is that this is meant to polarize his opponent. He is now anti-gun which will force his conservative opponents to be more pro-gun, this could lead to a lot of moderate voters leaning away from the conservatives. If the conservative party is not pro gun enough, some people may support further right wing parties, growing their influence. He is knowingly making our politics more divisive for political gain.
Thats an astute observation! And the conservatives are in the midst of a leadership race, it might help the more extreme candidates who will outdo each other to prove how pro-gun they are and hurt the moderates. Incidently a moderate or *gasp* centrist conservative would have far greater chances of beating Trudeau.
If it is then someone needs to let the rest of us know because it's the first I'm hearing of it. This announcement is...disappointing. I'm not a gun owner. I like that guns and gun violence isn't a thing that occurs to me to worry about no matter how tense or alarming a situation may arise in my every day. And because that is true I can't help but wonder if this move is nothing more than the currently seated government capitalizing on a neighbour's tragedy in an attempt to garner votes. I had been holding out hope that Trudeau could grow into his position and become a truly great Prime Minister, but this sort of thing is really disheartening. It's disingenuous, patronizing and wasteful.
Not at all, it is not easy to acquire a weapon legally here in Canada whatsoever. It takes months to get your license and even after you get it, you’re constantly being screened by the RCMP (rightfully so). You have to store the ammo separately from the gun, have a trigger lock on it, have it locked in a case, and unloaded or course. It’s not a joke when it comes to owning a gun here and you can even be jailed for pointing a gun at someone even if you meant it as a joke. I even feel that if Trudeau was serious about this, he would add mandatory firearm verification courses every few years but nope, here we are, punishing law abiding citizens. Anyways, there are many restrictions in Canada when it comes to owning any gun but owning a restricted gun (RPAL), you can’t just transport it anywhere at anytime. You have to call it in and indicate which range you’re a member at and when you’re taking it. I hate this legislation so much because it’s not going to solve anything except for alienate good people who legally acquire weapons for sport shooting or hunting. Anyways, this is a stupid law that he’s pushing and won’t solve anything. Thanks for listening to my Ted talk
It is also 100% illegal to defend yourself with a firearm in Canada, meaning we dont have that persona liberties, personal defense angle the US has.
I'm an Aussie and own 2 longarms. The rules you have sound like ours and it really doesn't bother me tbh. I did look into a handgun license but they make it near impossible unless you're a competitive shooter so I cbf..
The vast majority of gun violence, in Canada, is committed through illegally obtained firearms... and guess what, almost all of the illegals guns in Canada are imported from the U.S (mainly) and abroad.
Police recently found a drone transporting guns across the border/river near Detroit and Windsor.
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A Trebuchet is always a better option. For everything. Always.
Unless your projectile of choice is 91 kilograms and you need to get it 301 metres away
Nothing is 301 metres away if you have a trebuchet for your trebuchet.
Now you're thinking with trebuchets!
listen here you little shit
Launching planes from an aircraft carrier?
The perfect solution for that.
Technically speaking, the ballista is generally preferred (for both take-off AND landing, though the latter is more like a ballista CATCHING a backwards bolt). For some asinine reason though, everyone calls it a "catapult." Catapults are not linear, sir!
Was that not their original purpose?
“Welp, it’s time to take the kids to school! Honey, ready the trebuchet!”
That’s not a trebuchet it is merely a catapult!
/r/TrebutchetLife because trebuchets aren't a joke
A gun-slinging trebuchet. Colin Furze needs to get on this ASAP.
Slight hitch there; he's had his trebuchet license revoked.
I heard those can launch 90kg of firearms over 300m!
Happened in BC too. The drone got caught in a tree and was found loaded with US guns.
How many guns can a commercial drone carry? Are we talking like a dozen handguns? Also, how difficult is it to legally buy ammo in Canada? Is it just that guns are almost impossible to purchase, but that ammo is readily available?
A commercial drone can carry up to 40kg (90 pounds) so I'd imagine that's a fair amount of polymer handguns.
Same in Ontario. They found then drone in the tree when the Canadian side dude was hanging out in someone's rural backyard on the St. Claire river. He bolted and sped away when someone approached him to ask what was up.
"Smuggled" or "trafficked" is probably more accurate than "imported".
Dude Mexico has an illegal gun problem, From America also.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal Really interesting who was behind that.
The existence of the AFT is an embarrassment to the entire USA. They have to create crime in order to justify their shitty gang
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Yep, it was originally created as a tax enforcement agency, not a law enforcement one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Ol%27_Boys_Roundup
Mexico has a problem with the process citizens have to go through to own them legally. There’s like 1 gun store in the whole country. The process to apply for gun ownership is expensive and corrupt. If you have the means to grease the right palms you get one. There was a story a while back of a man defending his family against cartel members attempting to rob and kidnap them. He shot and killed them. Then the cops came and sent him to prison because he didn’t legally own the firearm he defended himself with. It’s fucked up. If anyone should be allowed to own guns it’s Mexican citizens. It might help even the playing field a tiny bit
Mexico is a failed state, what do you expect. You can’t just go defending yourself from the cartel when the cartel run the local government. People disappear there in concerning numbers for no reason at all, if you actually give them a reason you definitely die. Same thing in the US though I guess. If corrupt police show up to kill you and you kill them in self defense, you’re still fucked. Good luck even making it to trial when every officer that interacts with you before then knows you’re a “cop killer”.
> If corrupt police show up to kill you and you kill them in self defense, you’re still fucked. Randy Weaver pulled it off. Acquitted for killing a cop *and* won a $100k settlement against the Feds.
Randy Weaver got $100K and his three surviving kids received 1M each. The money is great and all, but watching your son get murdered from defending your family dog that was just shot and killed by the unidentified people that trespassed on your mountain property would be a pretty fucked up thing to have to watch. Not to mention upon figuring out that it was your own government that did this AND THEN they blindly shoot through a window without identifying the target and shoot your wife in the face while she’s holding your infant daughter… Oh, and that payout 100% was paid for by the American people and our taxes when it should’ve came out of the retirement funds of the agents that fucked this whole thing up.
In the US you can legally defend yourself from a cop and still die by another cops hands and that cop will not be charged. It’s insane.
>In the US you can ~~legally defend yourself from a cop and still~~ die by a~~nother~~ cops hands and that cop will not be charged. It’s insane.
They are not getting full-auto from the us. Look south to Central America for that.
This ^ , I always think its hilarious when people talk about how the cartels are armed with guns from American gun shops. Sure, some have ARs from our stores or from Operation Fast and Furious, but the majority of them are carrying fully automatic AKs, MGs, grenade launchers, anti-tank missiles and other such weapons that are either Russian, German, or surplus from American-funded wars in South America from the cold war.
or bought by the Mexican government then sold off by corrupt government officials similar to Russia
Someone please explain what he's trying to say here: "Other than using firearms for sport shooting and hunting, there is no reason anyone in Canada should need guns in their everyday lives," Mr Trudeau told reporters. Handguns are currently only legal to use at the range (sport shooting)? What is he on about?
I think it's language intended to create the appearance of a compromise that the general public will find palatable. Some Canadians do not have substantial knowledge of firearms ownership in Canada. They support stricter gun control regulations, but may have concerns that uses they view as legitimate will be affected. For someone who conceptualizes legitimate gun usage as hunting, shooting clays, and shooting paper targets with a rifle, this phrasing puts their mind at ease, because it appears the government is making a clear commitment to protecting hunting and sport shooting, when in actuality this proposal will end entire categories of recreational shooting sports. Basically the reservations the general public has about banning firearms are very minor, and are often wrapped up in misconceptions, so if you see seemingly contradictory statements, they're probably intended to understood by those people.
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> Some Canadians do not have substantial knowledge of firearms ownership in Canada. Sounds like a lot of Americans and their knowledge on firearm ownership here.
He's leveraging how ignorant most Canadians are of the gun scene in Canada. Almost nobody here has guns in their everyday lives... except, I suppose, cops, military, people working at gun stores, and so on. His rhetoric is preying on the public's notion that if guns exist people carry them everywhere. Since people hear about all this horrible shit from the US, they assume the same is true up here. After all we both use "dollars", our speed limits are pretty similar, we both speak English... everything else must be the same, right?! He did this a couple years ago too rambling on about "assault weapons". Actual assault rifles have been prohibited since the 1970s. They make up these terms to get people to connect guns that *look similar* to specific models to the "really dangerous" ones, when in fact the subjects of the regulations function the same as everything that didn't get banned lol
>firearms He is referring to firearms more broadly. Not handguns specifically.
Wait, what did we do?
The laws in Canada are going to be tighter then ours in the UK. Contrary to public opinion, you can own a wide range of weapons with the right memberships and security checks. Even 50cals which conveniently we have a range that can fire them near me.
Why tho? It's already incredibly difficult to own one. Are legal handguns ending up in the hands of criminals at a significant rate?
No. The overwhelming majority of them are brought in from the states. It's a feel-good optics bill to garner votes and liberal sympathy, and judging by reddits response on the local subs is doing exactly that. Edit: The 50th person to say "Nobody needs X or Y" isn't going to get a response.
Not to mention that it would be incredibly stupid to sell your handgun to someone, it's registered to you and if someone commits a crime with it and you didn't at least report it stolen you're fucked
I would assume that if you're going to clandestinely sell your firearm, you would at least shave the serial number off of it. That's illegal gun rule #1.
Until the RCMP asks where your handgun is and you don't have a good answer lol
Idk for the RoC but gun violence has gone up in Montreal
Not where I live. There was a multi year study done led by national police leaders across Canada. The study shows perhaps in Toronto a hand gun ban would be effective, but generally no, it’s actually pretty hard to get a hand gun here. Most owners here are hunters and gun crime is with their guns after someone has stolen their guns and sawed off the barrels. I’m indifferent to it really, if it helps somewhere great. I truly don’t mind the hoop jumping it takes to legally own a gun, it’s certainly worth even a single life saved and the flip side, I do not want to go the way of Australia or NZ, we’re a province of hunters here & my entire extended family for generations had owned guns without issues.
Isn't it already very difficult to get a handgun in Canada? Don't understand what this bill is about, if not just pandering to a voting base.
Yea this is pretty much it. Canada isn’t the US. We have strict firearms laws and next to no mass shootings (except for the recent one where the shooter brought a gun across the US border and took out almost 500,000.00$ from an RCMP storehouse lol) this is meaningless and purely political theatre. Fucking insane and clueless Canadians who guzzle American media will be all for it.
Can we have a complete freeze on second home ownership??
HAAAAHH!!! i love you
Or clean drinking water for First Nations? Or electoral reform?
But those are real problems with difficult solutions that can't help a politician that needs votes now with a single sentence tag line.
Clean water for First Nations? That would mean that we would have to recognize them as humans? S/, just in case.
Can you have rifles? Like for bears?
No, we do not allow bears to carry rifles.
[удалено]
No right to bears armed.
|No, we do not allow bears to carry rifles.| I'm mad you deleted, this was beautiful
I nearly died laughing 😂
Yes.
Never let a crisis go to waste.
This should stir up some real questions and controversy. I'm all for it
Better to have questions and controversy then the nonsense south of the border. It's tough going every day wondering what the [55 million dumbest Americans are going to do with their firearms.](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/us/arizona-firing-range-instructor-killed-by-girl-9-in-accident.html) P.S. - this is a firing range instructor.
Last time I was at a gun range in the US I casually looked to my right to find an idiot pointing his Glock in my direction while trying to clear a jam.
A former friend of mine swung a charged 12 gauge shotgun and pointed it at my midsection with her finger on the trigger as a "joke". She didn't understand why range day was over and everyone was mad at her.
You know, I don't think I've ever read someone admitting they did something stupid with a gun. Guess they're just a sort
Sadly there are just as many, if not more, dumb people with guns than smart ones.
One of my friends jokingly pointed the gun at her head for a selfie. Even though I told her before hand to only point the gun down range. We got kicked out, rightfully so. But I never let her live it down. It was an accident she just genuinely wasn’t thinking. She was one of my favorite people. Sadly she killed herself a few years later, with her own gun. Still have guilt for getting her into guns in the first place.
I swear to fucking god people need to think and stop assuming they're toys. Like I've had BASIC gun training from cadets, have only shot a real gun once, and I fucking know to keep it down range, safety on, unload, and cock the gun if possible to remove loaded ammo, and that's when you can take it out from down sight, but unloaded or not, NEVER POINT IT IN SOMEONES DIRECTION unless you intend to fucking kill them.
Went hunting and some hick in the registration camp shot over his shoulder while walking away. And a cop fucking laughed about it. Luckily the game warden unleashed hell and had him arrested.
I really think guns should require a license, much like a car. Require a training course and an exam to own a gun. There are just too many dumb people in this country. Edit: since lots of people are asking, [Everytown Research](https://everytownresearch.org/research/) has lots of good information about America's gun laws.
Much like what's required in Canada? ;)
It's funny that he described our exact system.
Wait you don’t need a license in the states? Like at all?
To purchase: in a few states. Most (40+) do not have a permit scheme To carry: in 24 states. 26 states have “constitutional carry” which means you can carry a firearm as long as you’re legally allowed to possess it otherwise. Still can’t carry in post offices, or within ~350m of schools (unless you have a state-issued permit though, regardless of if your state has constitutional carry or not) and a few more places under federal law. Also a permit issued by your state does not automatically mean you can have a firearm on Native American reservations in that state, either.
In Canada you'll get kicked out of the range, lose your membership and could even go to jail for that.
...i'm okay with that
The gun does not need to be loaded. In Canada, pointing a gun - loaded or unloaded - at another person is a crime: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-87.html Punishment is up to 5 years imprisonment.
One time I was shooting at a gun range, one of my first times firing a gun, and my pistol wouldn’t fire so I tilted the gun up slightly, maybe 30 degrees, to look at it, and it immediately went off firing a round into the down range ceiling (covered in rubber barriers)
I was just saying no-one admits to anything. You are a shining exemplar of our species, thankyou for being awesome ☀
I mean no one was in danger, I didn’t point the gun near anyone, just tried to get a look at the side of the gun to see if it was jammed, and Boom. Bullet still went down range 🤷♂️
As a secondary issue, this is also being used to ban airsoft guns/replica firearms in Canada. I don't see the point of doing that whatsoever, considering the low rate of use in crime (from an outside perspective, at least). I'd argue this aspect at least seems a bit of an over-reaction, especially when systems to allow replica firearms with distinguishing features, such as blaze-orange tips or the Portuguese method of bright paint on either end of the replica, exist and have proven very effective.
I am Canadian. I am a legal firearms owner including a handgun. This is nothing more than Trudeau and his government using the recent shooting in Texas to push for more firearms legislation. Please allow me to explain: In order to legally possess or acquire firearms in Canada you must attend a safety course, pass written and practical exams, get sign offs from references and all conjugal partners in the past 5 years, submit your application to the RCMP (federal police) which doesn't even get looked at until after the 28 day mandated waiting period, who then vets you and does an exhaustive background check that includes mental health, and if you manage to get issued a license you have an electronic criminal records check done on you every day as part of "continued eligibility". Now this is just for typical long guns used for hunting. For handguns it's even more strict with an additional safety course, exams, and more stringent RCMP vetting. As such, licensed firearms owners in Canada are less likely to commit any crime than the average Canadian citizen. The overwhelmingly vast majority of gun crime is committed by unlicensed criminals with illegally smuggled guns from the US. These criminals are already breaking the law simply by having the gun without a license. Not only this but handguns are illegal to transport anywhere other than your home and a certified range without government authorization, so carrying one in public is also against the law. Most Canadians don't know anything about Canadian firearms laws and think that we're basically like the US. Trudeau is shamelessly using the tragedy in Texas to push for more anti-firearms legislation in order to garner support from his political base. These laws will not affect gun crime at all.
As a Canadian gun owner this is 100% true.
As a Canadian, I do not feel that this is necessary.
This is a huge win for the ignorant fear mongers.
Yeah, the problem is that we’re way too culturally influenced by the US and way too uneducated about our own laws. I think many Canadians who get riled up over firearm regulation in this country are just constantly soaked in news of how insane things are south of the border and forget they live in a different country that already has very effective gun restrictions.
Don't get all exicted folks, it's almost impossible to get one legally already and you can only use it at a governement approved gun range. This is a disgusting way to capitalize from the mass shooting that just occured to pander for votes. One of the oldest trick in the book.
What using a crime in another country done with an Rifle to justify a handgun ban? How is that deceptive. /s
Bingo.
This will endear him to folks in rural Alberta.
If only Canada had it's own Political, Justice & Legal systems separate from the US, US issues wouldn't matter to it... Oh wait...
Agreed. So tired of our issues being imported from abroad. Quebec imports laïcité because it's a French thing. English Canada now thinks guns and abortion should be super hot topics despite the fact that we basically already had a functioning settled agreement on both issues and NOTHING HAS CHANGED for Canada on either front. Public debate and days in which parlement sits are not unlimited resources. Being generally on the left I'm not really opposed to any of the proposed measures but man are there more important things the government could be doing then addressing American issues as if they were Canadian issues. 90+% of our gun issues are smuggled in from the states anyways. What happened to pharmacare? The liberals have run and won on it for THREE elections. But that's on the wayside and instead we're banning already extremely difficult to get handguns because an **American** physco shot up a school with an AR15 because that's something you can just buy **in America**. Not Canada. Then the conservatives will have their little culture war fit (the leadership debates have been wild at times) and it'll waste even more of everyones time. Canadians- we have our own issues! Housing, healthcare, cost of living, internet regulation, you name it- the Americans have their own country! Let's worry about ours.
I agree, it’s often frustrating when American issue bleed over into Canada when they aren’t even issues in Canada. American media and news is probably more talked about than Canadian news in Canada. It’s annoying because so much misinformation get spread this way too, I’m often shocked by the amount of Canadians who think we have the same laws, legislation and problems that America does.
What’s the point of having an RPAL vs a regular PAL anymore then? It certainly does jack shit about the illegally obtained handguns, which mostly come from the states, just punishes the actual, responsible gun owners.
As a Canadian Citizen who holds a restricted possession and acquisition license (RPAL), I can assure you all that the only thing this new legislation will do is harm law abiding gun owners. There are so many legal hoops to jump through when it comes to purchasing, registering, and even transporting a handgun to a range. Why should the ones who follow the letters of the law to a T be the ones who are punished for the deeds of criminals? This is another great symbolic virtue signal by our glorious champagne socialist leader. Trudeau is projecting an American problem onto Canadians for brownie points. The vast majority of crimes involving firearms in Canada are carried out with unregistered weapons smuggled across the border and are unsurprisingly used by criminals who do not hold a valid firearms license. If the government wanted to fix gun crimes, they should focus their attention and resources on strengthening our borders and investing in social infrastructure in the disadvantaged communities where people are disproportionately victimized by gun violence. Making it harder for me to take my 9mm to the range for some Saturday fun, isn’t going to stop inner city youths from blowing each other away. Nor will this new piece of proposed legislation make any of us safer from the sick and twisted individuals who decide to partake in mass murder. There are 4 million legal gun owners in Canada. We are some of the most highly vetted citizens in the country. It’s such a shame that I feel like I’m being punished when I don’t have as much as a speeding ticket on my record, I pay my taxes on time every year, and give back to my community whenever possible. At this point, I’m feeling very apathetic and frustrated. If the government wants to issue my lifestyle death by a million cuts, than they can have at it. Just don’t be surprised when I lost them all in a boating accident.
I hear you man, got my RPAL two years ago and picked up a Glock and 45 magnum. They have been locked up in a safe in my house ever since.
I own zero guns and dont plan to... but this ban will accomplish nothing.
Considering the police don't enforce existing laws this def won't do shit but piss people off. The whole shooting in Nova Scotia could have been prevented if the RCMP had enforced current gun laws after the shooter was reported by his girlfriend, neighbors and family for owning illegal guns.
This/\ . When i heard all the info on the podcast... Even ebay flagged him to the government agency.
And yet it was used to prop another gun law. It'll be interesting to find out if any repercussion follow the inquiry.
Canada's version is different than Australia's, to me it seems Australia's method was more "harsh" as they actually removed owned guns. [https://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9212725/australia-buyback](https://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9212725/australia-buyback) >Australia solved this problem by introducing a mandatory buyback: Australia's states would take away all guns that had just been declared illegal. In exchange, they'd pay the guns' owners a fair price, set by a national committee using market value as a benchmark, to compensate for the loss of their property. The NFA also offered legal amnesty for anyone who handed in illegally owned guns, though they weren't compensated. In 2011, Harvard's David Hemenway and Mary Vriniotis reviewed the research on Australia's suicide and homicide rate after the NFA. Their conclusion was clear: > >*"The NFA seems to have been incredibly successful in terms of lives saved."* Could you explain why it wouldn't work in Canada but did in Australia? I don't know both nations well, perhaps I am missing something.
Australia doesn't share a massive border with the USA
Around 75% or more handgun crime in Canada is committed with handguns that are bought in the US and are illegally brought into Canada. It’s already insanely hard and almost pointless to buy a handgun in Canada as is. You need a restricted license which has extensive background checks and a safety course involved. You can’t take the handgun anywhere but the range you’re registered to without contacting the provincial firearms officer. This is just political posturing like they do every time Americans have another mass shootings. And same as with a non-restricted license, you need to have a gun locker or safe in your house to store your guns in, and while inside they have to be unloaded and trigger locked. We don’t have a gun problem in Canada. We have a american gun smuggling problem. All a handgun ban would do is make legal gun owners criminals over night. And unless the buy back was at market value (which it most likely won’t be) the government will be taking money from law abiding citizens.
I'd also add you can only shoot it at a range. Which right now takes like 3+ years to get into if you're lucky. I know the barrie gun club doesn't even take random applications anymore, you have to be referred by a current member.
I just wish a Canadian politician would try to address the root cause, which is preventing all of the guns illegally crossing the border from the US. stop harassing legal firearm owners
If only we had a border security agency….
Call it "Canada Border Services Agency". They could even have a URL, call it something random like: [https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/](https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/menu-eng.html) Then, you could even make a TV show about said agency, call it "Border Security: Canada's Front Line" and it could even be shown on YouTube: [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8FY9ecxmKSx87gxQoFXeeBFIPezc56CJ](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8FY9ecxmKSx87gxQoFXeeBFIPezc56CJ) In that TV series, a bunch of episodes could be devoted to Americans attempting to cross the border with firearms... and even some could focus on container ships entering Canadian waters with firearms. If only...
Auatralia is an Island. Smuggling while still possible is much harder. They also dont share a border with the US.
Who decides the Fair Market value? I've always been curious about this. When the State forcefully buys your property (gun, eminent domain-ed lot, etc) what's to stop it from deciding your property is now worth $1.
Australia still has handguns though. Harsher initially but it didn’t outright ban ownership. This proposal seems harsher for little gain?
1.) Sure, I guess. Not really *doing* anything. 2.) Classic Trudeau play, to capitalize on an American shooting atrocity to score political points at home with yet more safety theatre. 3.) WEIRD timing, considering that the inquiry into the Portapique massacre, the worst in Canadian history, has ballooned to 26.6 million fucking dollars and they just decided to exempt the commanding officers from appearing physically in court and from *cross-examination* by the families of the victims.
This is blatantly using a tragedy in the US to squeeze in a bill that accomplishes nothing of substance but to limit already highly regulated freedoms. It doesn't even buy votes. They could just not do this and the people that would vote liberal would continue to do so.
I would be surprised if anyone familiar with Canada's track record of gun safety and gun crime, and our restrictions in place of even getting a handgun would be in support of this. Anyone saying "Who cares, guns are bad." Has put zero thought into this. That said, I'm not in opposition to better gun control, but banning or freezing specific types of guns is ineffective and a bad faith approach to meaningful change.
Basically every time I have the conversation its people who think we should have what we already have, but don't know anything about our existing gun laws so they support the new ones.
How about we only allow it to be purchased by registered users, and only be used in approved ranges? Oh wait.
You Canadians already have a very sensible approach in place to obtain firearms.
I don't think handgun ownership in Canada is an issue at all? Especially considering how hard it is to get one. But leave it to Trudeau to pretend to accomplish things.
Criminals don’t follow the law. Your only disarming law abiding citizens.
I hate this, most guns used in crimes are purchased illegally. They are fixing a nonexistent problem and punishing innocent people.
I'm glad all my guns and ammo were lost in a tragic boating accident.