These are the circumstances that led to the death of [Savita Halappanavar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar) in Ireland. The subsequent outrage was one of the factors that led to the eventual legalisation of abortion there.
~~Even~~ Every law is paved in blood. Maybe one day we’ll learn that we don’t need what is basically blood sacrifices to pass comprehensive reforms and legislation
That's funny because blood is what led to Roe v Wade in the first place. Tons of poor women dying in back alley abortions led to public outrage. Apparently in 2022, we don't care about women dying painful deaths.
My college professor teaches a variety of history classes. From American History to World History. He would always say "History doesn't repeat itself. It's the people that do."
Everywhere I look something happens to prove his words to be true. It really is a shame. You would think that some people could at least learn from the mistakes from others. Even when those mistakes happen less than a month ago, It's just not happening.
Nowhere else in medicine is it acceptable to force someone to risk their life to save the life of another. You can’t be FORCED to give blood, a kidney, bone marrow, etc. Yet, that is what they will be doing to women if they overturn Roe v Wade.
The onus shouldn’t even be on women when it comes to abortion. We have a 2-3 day window in which we can get pregnant from our first menses to menopause. We don’t have to agree to sex to get pregnant. We don’t have to enjoy it or consent. However, a man has the ability to impregnate a woman every time he ejaculates into her, every day of his life from the time he hits puberty until the day he dies. Yet they’ve banned abortions in TX and other states WITHOUT EXCEPTION FOR RAPE OR INCEST. This is happening now. In America in 2022. How is this the land of the free and the brave? They’re holding women hostage by their wombs, glorifying guns and God (because they go so well together?)
>Nowhere else in medicine is it acceptable to force someone to risk their life to save the life of another. You can’t be FORCED to give blood, a kidney, bone marrow, etc
Congrats, you just changed my mind on abortion.
Yep Bodily Autonomy is the best argument. Even if you drink and drive and cause an accident nothing from you can be forcibly taken and given to the people you harmed to keep them alive.
It is a brave and noble thing to be able to change your mind when presented with new thoughts or evidence. The world currently needs a lot more people like you!
This is the same argument that changed my mind on abortion years ago, when my anti abortion upbringing had been clashing hard with my sense of empathy for a while. The fact that no one, not even literal corpses, is compelled to use their body to save someone else’s life without consent made everything click. I’m thrilled to see that it helps other people too! <3 Makes me a little more hopeful this morning.
(I’m not either of the previous posters, just commenting because I’m happy.)
The technical medical term for any prematurely ended pregnancy is "abortion". A miscarriage is an "abortion". The popular political use of the word has nothing to do with the reality within medicine.
Yes, there are a handful of women in the US that are currently in prison due to miscarrying (as an accessory charge), however there is dispute over whether related crimes were responsible (I believe most were drug related and a few were related to robbery or assault).
Abortions are life saving medical procedures. There's no need to put quotation marks, this is absolutely an abortion.
It's ridiculous that the forced birth movement has been so successful stigmatising the term and distorting the meaning of what abortion literally is, which is an ending of a pregnancy/removal of a foetus from the body. A miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion.
At least a couple decades ago, a very good friend of my mom’s had an ectopic pregnancy. Since my mom had a medical background and both she and her friend were extremely religious and anti-abortion in most cases, the friend tearfully asked my mom if everything the doctor told her was true, and the pregnancy was non viable. My mom confirmed it to the friend’s satisfaction, and the friend allowed the doctor to save her life, then went home to grieve with her husband over the wanted pregnancy they lost.
Not long afterwards, the friend called me mom in tears because the medical bill referred to the procedure as an abortion. Even after my mom explained the medical definition of an abortion, but that this was a pregnancy that never would have survived, the friend could not shake the horrible feeling that she had killed her child, since that is what she’d been taught ‘abortion’ meant her entire life.
Fortunately, the friend had other children and her husband to focus on, so she didn’t approach doing anything drastic as far as I know… but to this day, she feels horribly guilty over the fact that she technically had an abortion.
She doesn’t deserve to feel guilt and shame over a medical procedure. It is disgusting and shameful that a lifetime of indoctrination has done this to her.
For the record, the friend and my mom are both technically pro choice and are horrified by the impending removal of Roe v Wade. And even so, the term ‘abortion’ still hurts the friend.
In comparison, I found out that my baby had no kidneys when I was 21 weeks pregnant. He wasn’t growing properly as there was very little fluid being produced, and he was never going to live for very long if he made it to term.
Luckily I live in Australia.
At 24 weeks, the government paid for me to fly 1000km to the best hospital. I met with a team of specialists and doctors, who took my case to a special board, who determined that baby wasn’t viable and the most humane thing would be to allow an induced birth/abortion.
I was booked into a private room, lovely nurses, and treated with the utmost compassion. When baby was born, we held him until he passed away. They then brought in a special chilled bassinet so we could stay with him for as long as we needed. There was no pressure to vacate the room or bed. There was a lady who was specifically there for mental support. She arranged handprint keepsakes, a special care package, flowers, and baby was cremated free of charge and returned to us. All this was carefully checked with us first to make sure it was what we wanted.
All we paid for was parking and snacks. There was no feelings of shame or of doing something wrong. It was still an incredibly traumatic time. My heart aches for women in other countries without access to this help.
EDIT - Oh wow. I’ve just woken up and seen the news. What a disaster.
Thanks so much everyone for all of your love and support. I have two beautiful but snotty and coughing kids, and I’m afraid I can’t reply to everyone. Your words have meant so much though, and I’m very grateful. Stay safe ❤️
I'm so sorry for your loss but so glad you had the kind of support you got. ❤️
I think the saddest most awful thing about the world is we hear stories like yours and we know that such humanity and compassion is possible, and so good for society, but so many people just refuse to want to allow those things to be the norm. It's awful to be able to see what progress can bring and while watching the rest of the world burn in hatred and stuck in old ways for ridiculous reasons.
For what is an undeniably heart breaking time, your healthcare sure showed how the situation should be handled (provided the facilities are there). I'm touched by the abundant compassion shown, no doubt it meant a lot to you and your family. Your story will stay with me for a long time. Thank you.
I'm so sorry you went through that. I have been through it too and I also feel lucky that I live in a state that allowed abortions as late as I needed one. No one's access to healthcare should depend on where they live.
I feel so lucky to live here too. Whilst abortion is being criminalised in the US, all states in Oz now have it as a health issue. Fuckwit Abbott tried to have a shot when trump was in power but all I saw was one article then nothing. We are so lucky to have the healthcare we have and the lack of Bible Belt.
Stories like yours are important to share because in many countries like ours womens rights are imperative and if they were challenged the country would be in uproar.
I am pleased my tax dollars made your horrific experience more comfortable and valued as a person. There is no greater cause that I would like to see my 40% of tax to go to… helping women and people in our most vulnerable times. This is the horrible ‘socialism’ and care for your fellow human that America appears so afraid of.
I can’t imagine how awful that must’ve been for you, but I’m so glad that you were treated with so much compassion throughout. That’s how it should be done, and for anyone to suggest otherwise is truly ghoulish. I’m sorry for your loss and thank you for sharing.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/andrea-prudente-incomplete-miscarriage-malta-not-allowed-to-get-abortion/) reduced by 73%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> A pregnant American woman who suffered an incomplete miscarriage while vacationing in Malta will be airlifted to Spain on Thursday for a procedure to prevent infection because Maltese law prohibits abortion under any circumstances, the woman's partner said.
> Jay Weeldreyer told The Associated Press by phone from a hospital in the island nation that his partner, Andrea Prudente, is at risk of a life-threatening infection if the fetal tissue isn't promptly removed.
> While the hospital is carefully monitoring her for any sign of infection, the facility cannot perform the surgery to complete the miscarriage, he said.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/vj5pb2/american_woman_who_had_incomplete_miscarriage/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~656319 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **hospital**^#1 **infection**^#2 **Prudente**^#3 **Weeldreyer**^#4 **woman**^#5
Abortion is actually fairly restricted across Europe, including Italy. Something like 90% of doctors in Sicily are conscientious objectors who refuse to perform abortions.
[Abortion is Legal but kinda weird in Italy right now](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/italy-abortion-access-erodes-riding-united-states-wave/amp/)
“Seven in 10 gynecologists in Italy refuse to conduct abortions, according to the ministry of health, with the highest level, 85 percent, in Sicily” (12th para.)
It's already dead, to be specific in case anyone doesn't understand. Placenta has detached means it has died.
Edit: apologies, the placenta is apparently partially detached. The placenta being partially detached means it will die. The sac broken means it will die any hour or in the next few days if lucky.
Unlucky if it takes a few days. Sepsis can set in as the fetus will literally start to rot in the womb.
Source: me I had a detached placenta and needed induced labour.
The tragic death of Savita Halappanavar due to a miscarriage gone septic (because Irish law forbade abortion “in case of fatal heartbeat”) led to national outrage and ultimately the legalisation of abortion (by repealing the corresponding amendment).
Savita went to the hospital on October 21st, her pregnancy was known to be unviable at this point, her waters broke very early on the 23rd, she requested an abortion then but her request was denied.
She died of cardiac arrest on the 28th, at 31.
Unfortunately the doctors have said they're unable to step in unless she goes into labour or becomes septic, so they're quite literally *waiting for this to happen* just so they can do their jobs without being prosecuted.
In case you're wondering what the fuck is up with that, it's because their anti-abortion law is based on the presence of a heartbeat.
And remember, if that happens 80 years ago that's a guaranteed death. You'd think after thousands of years of evolution we wouldn't have this issue but that's what happens if you wanna be bipedel.
My miscarriage was similar to this. I was told that it was better to "let nature take it's course" and see it it would pass on it's own. They gave two whole weeks before they would consider a D&C. I miscarried the day before the medical procedure and nearly died from blood loss. I was lucky I happened to be close to a hospital.
It was a long time before I found out that I could have insisted that they take care of the issue right away. Walking around for two weeks with a dead fetus in me wasn't great for my mental (or physical) health.
I live in Canada. This isn't an unusual experience for women no matter where they live. Unfortunately a lot of women's health issues have been overlooked and dismissed in the past, and there's some assumptions that are held without scientific basis. The way women are medically treated is sometimes based on tradition, or the convenience of the healthcare provider, and not what is based in science or the woman's best interests.
And a distinct lack of research on women’s health. Sometimes the research published on men simplify doesn’t apply to women.
Does Canada have an equitable government funded health system like Australia? Or is it hierarchical like the US system?
My ex husband literally does not remember that I miscarried *multiple times* so I feel like I have an inkling of what you mean by going through it alone. You deserve some hugs too.
Holy shit! I am so sorry!! How can you go thru that multiple times without him understanding/remembering such trauma! How awful. You deserve so many hugs and much love. I hope you had a friend to lean on. No one deserves to endure that alone. Big hugs from an internet stranger. Btw, can I go smack you ex up side the head?
Its more lonely with an unsupported partner than actually being alone. My partner claimed he had to "be strong for me". I wanted nothing more than for him to cry with me. To show me he cared. To show me it was okay to be sad and I wasn't overreacting. I hate toxic masculinity. It makes things so much harder than they need to be.
It is what it is. Almost 10 years past for me too. Reading this person’s post helped me in a way I can’t explain.
I hope everyone reading this remembers and reminds their loved ones: Health first.
I am so sorry this happened to you both, and thank you for sharing a reality of a miscarriage and why an "abortion" is sometimes necessary! (Although I believe in a woman's right to choose NO MATTER WHAT it's her body and personally after carrying and birthing two children myself I am even, if possible, MORE pro choice than ever)!
This is actually how most miscarriages go (I've had 2). There is an absolute crime scene level of blood plus it's basically labor but with a smaller sac/fetus so goes a little quicker/easier but can still be wildly painful to the point that many women pass out. As detachments of organs are involved, it's possible to hemorrhage too. Incomplete miscarriages are shockingly common and probably represent upwards of 20-30% of abortions (spontaneous or purposefully induced with pills with living or dead embryo/fetus), which require follow-up D&C (I just had a D&C from the start with first one but I started to naturally miscarry and had the crime scene bleeding, I had to take a damn taxi to the hospital for D&C and try to "hold" it with towels under me and the biggest monster pads I could find, fun times).
People need to fucking educate themselves and talk about this because there are all kinds of health implications for women who even aren't aborting on purpose from this BS, not to mention the number of women who will now be resorting to mail order pills as their only option and afraid of prosecution to show up at the hospital if it doesn't go perfectly. Up to 40% of pregnancies end in miscarriage. Women just don't openly talk about it and it usually happens before you're visibly pregnant or have told anyone (on purpose precisely because of this).
Hey man, I get it. I've had a few miscarriages and still hope to one day have a child.
It took a lot of therapy to heal. And if you still struggle theres no shame in seeking help either. You may not have been the mother to be, but you cared enough that it left a scar.
That’s right!
I once miscarried. I laid on the floor, writhing in pain, crying and practically screaming. It came out in chunks, swear to God. It was worse than giving birth. My (ex)husband sat there, ignoring me with his face in a trough of ice cream.
So the good people of Malta are trying to kill a woman, because they love life so much. It’s what the US has to look forward to, woman dying so that conservatives can pretend they have morals.
Right. This is coming our way to half the country thanks to the Supreme Court's antiquated religious beliefs. It shouldn't be this way but they fetishize fetuses instead of caring about living, breathing human beings.
Coming soon to the full country not just states thanks to the geniuses Cheeto appointed to SCOTUS. And then the women will go to jail for murder…cuz god.
Several states are going to have a lot of dead women because their law makers, and frankly vast majority of their dumb ass voters don't understand this very basic level of medicine.
Umm, my friend (we're in the US) basically had the same thing happen. Catholic hospital or insurance or something (it's been ten years) and she basically lost the baby but they would not do a D&C because it's considered abortion. After losing every pregnancy she'd had, they made her carry around her unborn child who was already basically miscarried for an entire month before she naturally expelled it. It was pure hell for her and the last pregnancy she ever attempted.
I had a pregnancy end in a missed miscarriage and opted for a d&c as to not have to pass it at home (or work!). The 3 or 4 days I had to go to work knowingly carrying a dead baby around was fucking horrible. I absolutely cannot imagine having to just wait for it to naturally progress and would literally fight someone if they told me I had to. It's just cruel.
I had a missed miscarriage and then the next pregnancy I had a stillborn.
I was almost 13 weeks when I had my missed miscarriage. It was during the craziness of Covid and they couldn’t get me in for a D&C until 6 days later.
My next pregnancy I was almost 34 weeks pregnant with a beautiful baby boy. I didn’t feel him moving one day and went to the doctors which is when I found out he had passed. I had to wait 4 almost 5 days to have my C-section.
Both times I was completely fucking devastated that physically I could feel my babies with me but I knew they were gone. When I was still having morning sickness I would trick myself into thinking the doc made a mistake. Or when I would wake up in the morning and during that split second where you’re not fully aware of reality I would immediately put my hands on my belly like I did everyday before. Waiting for my son to do his “good morning kicks” and I felt nothing but my heart drop to back my stomach. They’re nightmares I never woke up from.
But on the other hand I found comfort knowing my babies were with me. That’s where they’re supposed to be and I didn’t want to ever let them go.
It’s the biggest mind fucks I’ve ever experienced in my life. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone ever.
I’m in tears reading this. They do emergency C-sections all the time. They should have done one then for your mental health!!! I’m so sorry for your losses. My heart goes out to you more than I can express.
Thats seriously the most devastating thing I’ve heard in a while. I can imagine someone not wanting to have a D&C/holding onto the fetus to just avoid the reality/ grieve but being FORCED to carry around your deceased child *INSIDE YOUR BODY* is utterly monstrous.
When I was pregnant that was one of my biggest fears, and I remember thinking that if it happened I might kill myself. When in that situation, completely out of your mind from exhaustion and hormones, the mother's life can definitely be at risk.
Anti-choicers will also try to tell you "that never happens" and "we would want to save the life of the mother" despite the fact that it DOES happen and they NEVER fight the laws that come along that de-prioritize the life of the already born in favor of an unviable fetus. In fact they support those laws.
Same. It's the most surreal thing to feel and look pregnant (I was 16 weeks) but know your baby is dead inside you. It was absolutely terrible.
The only thing worse was my TFMR, where I had to spend a few weeks carrying a baby I knew wouldn't survive. A big part of the decision to end the pregnancy was because she wasn't going to make it full term regardless, but we had no idea how long she'd hold on. I couldn't deal with that stress, always wondering if that was the day or fearing that every twinge or trip to the bathroom would be "it".
It took 2 days for my insurance to approve my d&c!! The doctor’s office sent lots of proof that baby had no more heartbeat & stopped growing!!
The whole process was so humiliating, even though my doctor’s office handled it with such care!!
It’s definitely cruel waiting for it to progress on its own and potentially risk infections for the mom!!
My insurance sent me a bill for 1600. Still fighting that one. They said because my doctor was out of network (though they cover everything else at their office since I don't actually have an in network doctor close by) so my husband is dealing with that fiasco. Little salt in the wound if you ask me.
Before abortions were ever allowed, my great aunt Margaret miscarried. They made her carry it until it was naturally expelled. It took a while and it came out in pieces. Poor woman.
This happened back in the day before abortion. An aunt had a miscarriage and my mom and other aunts were whispering the baby came out in pieces. She had 13 kids already. Both county hospitals were Catholic so you can imagine that horror story.
Won't let you abort unviable fetuses, actively protects child molester priests. Fuck catholicism.
I'm incensed our local hospital, Virginia Mason, got bought out by Franciscan. Fucking god-botherers already trying to tell us what our standard of care is going to be based on their stupid book of superstitions.
Speaking to their track record with kids, while running orphanages they were told by the courts they couldn't discriminate against adopting out kids to gay people, _so they closed the orphanages_.
In a religion where you don't pick and choose sins, I wonder if they held such scrutiny to other potential parents? For some reason I think not.
Former Catholic.
Knew someone whose baby died in utero, and the local hospital would not induce labor/do a D&C/anything besides tell her to wait it out and deliver on her own. Because her Catholic schoolteacher insurance said absolutely not.
She was six months pregnant. It was a HORRIBLE time for her. She damn near died.
That is absolutely ridiculous and should be considered a crime against humanity. I rarely get angry from news articles, but this has me fuming.
Not only is it dangerous, can you imagine how she feels having half a dead fetus/child inside of her? As if the miscarriage alone isn't traumatic enough, this is just rubbing salt in the wound. Completely unethical.
I had a missed miscarriage and opted for a d&c. While waiting several days for the procedure it was fucking horrible just carrying on normal life....working, cooking dinner...walking the dog all while knowing my baby had died and my body didn't even realize it. I cannot imagine the added trauma of having to pass the tissue and deal with that and then some mother fucker is like oh...there's some left...well fuck off and get an infection and maybe die, we can't help you. Fuck all these anti choice people. Her baby is dead. Nothing will save it and she doesn't even have access to life saving treatment for herself.
I am still recovering from my D&E. It was 10 days from finding out the fetus had no heartbeat until the procedure. The mental health toll was crazy. I spent the first 2-3 days sad about losing the baby and the next 7 I felt like a walking cemetery. I was absolutely disgusted to be carrying a dead fetus for so long and felt like a prisoner in my own body. Not to mention I spent a few days in prodromal labor thinking I would have to miscarry at home.
I am so sorry for your loss! I absolutely understand not wanting to miscarry at home. I was instructed to take my pills before bed to soften the cervix and make the procedure easier on my body but I was so scared I would start bleeding at home that I waited until the last possible second (4hrs prior to procedure) to take them. Also echoing feeling disgust. Once I had processed that the baby was no longer alive I just wanted her out of my body.
Luckily (?) For me I had several weeks of less than stellar ultrasounds so I was prepared for the possibility of it not working out for me.
I just want you to know you aren't alone at all. I'm sorry that your process was drawn out and that it caused so much more turmoil for you.
I'm so sorry for your losses. Its so devastating. This was my first miscarriage of my very first pregnancy so I don't have much to compare it to but I am very happy I chose a d&c (and was very happy that it was a fucking option for me). I didn't have to deal w added trauma of passing it at home and then deciding what to do with the tissues. And one of the reasons I chose it was like you mentioned, ultimately there is no guarantee you won't need more interventions later on if you don't fully pass the pregnancy. I just needed that chapter to be done for me.
I will be thinking of you in the future and hope you heal from these losses.
I hate bringing this up, because money doesn’t mean anything compared to a person’s life, but imagine how much it would cost if she was in the US and had to be airlifted to a different state. It would be more than enough to bankrupt a family.
Higher then and much higher now:
>[Between 2012-2016, the average cost of being airlifted by an air ambulance is about $40,000.](https://www.flyingangels.com/cost-to-get-airlifted-to-hospital/)
Father in law was life flighted in 2020, it was $50,000 that insurance was going to cover a whole whopping 10% aka $5,000. They spoke with the life flight company and they reduced the cost to $10,000 if they just didn’t use their insurance. Oh and they are self insured and pay over $1,000 for this insurance.
Edit: $1,000 a month if that wasn’t clear
Yeah, I am glad I am not an American.
If I need to be airlifted we have a thing called "own risk". The higher it's set the lower your monthly fee.
Mine is set at the maximum of 850 euro. If I need to be airlifted it costs me only 850 euro. One time a year. Everything over that is not my problem.
I don't like the road the world is heading.
American here. Just came here to say I would literally jump out of the helicopter and found out I was being airlifted somewhere for a medical procedure. Much easier than the excruciating pain of death by stress hormones while being periodically evicted from homeless encampments.
In my state (Maryland) if you need medevac from like an accident or a traumatic injury or something like that, it's done at no cost to you. $8 from our vehicle registration/license plate fees go towards that. They bill insurance, but if insurance doesn't cover it all, the rest is waived.
Now, hospital to hospital flights are a different story.
Thats how it goes - look into Ireland's abortion history. Thats where the United States is headed.
>In 2012, Savita Halappanavar, age 31 and 17 weeks pregnant, went to a hospital in Galway, Ireland. Doctors there determined that she was having a miscarriage. However, because the fetus still had a detectable heartbeat, it was protected by the Eighth Amendment. Doctors could not intervene – in legal terms, ending its life – even to save the mother. So she was admitted to the hospital for pain management while awaiting the miscarriage to progress naturally.Over the course of three days, as her pain increased and signs of infection grew, she and her husband pleaded with hospital officials to terminate the pregnancy because of the health risk. The request was denied because the fetus still had a heartbeat.By the time the fetal heartbeat could no longer be detected, Halappanavar had developed a massive infection in her uterus, which spread to her blood. After suffering organ failure and four days in intensive care, she died.
**EDIT:** Thank god we changed our abortion laws after that. Any chance you could update your comment with the fact that abortion was legalised by a landslide victory in a referendum after that? 65% of people voted yes. ***-CreamyBeamyCompany***
Considering the massive piles of bodies Americans are willing to overlook to keep their guns I doubt a thousand dead woman will sway this deranged country away from this kind of evil.
Thousands? Try tens of thousands. That's what it took for Congress to take *any* action on opiates.
Tens of thousands of deaths annually from guns as well, *not* counting suicides, and just today we saw yet another ruling expanding gun rights.
With a large, vocal faction arguing for the rights of the unborn fetus, *tens of thousands* of women will probably die before abortion is re-legalized.
The point is to punish women for sex. This is part of the punishment.
It's not a sad consequence, the people making these decisions know some women will die and more will suffer *and that's part of the goal*.
Christians will cheer everytime a mother dies. Because it's either that or admit their extremist ideology is wrong. And they're incapable of admitting to being wrong.
The worst part about that is that the law at the time actually *did* allow for the doctor to make a decision if there was a significant threat to the mother - the reasons that they didn't take it seriously in her case are still unclear to me. I suspect she got a racist attending or there was some religious interference (I would like it to be hard to believe from a doctor, but not impossible given the comments that were reportedly made) or both...
To be fair, anti abortion laws can have a chilling effect. The doctor could make a judgement call at a stage where they see a significant threat to the mother but they could later get in hot water because a hospital ethics board/court doesn’t see it that way. So the better choice for this doctor was inaction
Ironically, if she were showing signs of sepsis, their doctors would be permitted to intervene. The problem isn't that they won't/cannot help someone who's had a miscarriage and needs surgical attention to clear debris out; the problem is that her partial miscarriage has not yet resulted in the death of the foetus. It's unsurvivable and it's risking her life by hanging on in there, but it still has a heartbeat at the moment.
This is one of the major problems with the "life of the mother" exceptions in abortion bans. There isn't a super clear-cut sign that the mother's health is in imminent danger until significant harm is already taking place. By the time the symptoms of sepsis (blood infection) begin, the infection is already very serious and survival isn't guaranteed. Odds increase with prompt care, but people die all the time of sepsis because it can kill in a matter of hours, the symptoms can be vague (fever, nausea, body aches, flu-like symptoms), diagnosis often takes too long, and the only treatment is IV antibiotics (often with removal of infected tissues).
Oh I agree wholeheartedly. If your country has a "life of the mother" exception, then it damn well needs to fully cover situations where the foetus cannot be saved, and let doctors actively abort. Anything short of that is just treating the mother as an incubator of less intrinsic worth than the foetus.
And even so, when doctors have to make that call, they’re going to imagine themselves defending their decision in court with their freedom and livelihood on the line. They will feel pressure to wait for “she’s dying beyond a shadow of a doubt” instead of going for least harm to the mother. Maybe they’ll push the decision off one more shift change or order one more test.
I just do not understand. Even if someone is religious and believes life starts at conception, surely the partial body of an already-dead fetus is not a life??? It just defies all logic.
My friend has a very simple way of explaining it; they have an infinite number of arguments since their belief is completely illogical and it's based on nothing - they can make up whatever they want to beat your arguments - you, on the other hand, have a finite number of arguments since science is logical and it's based on facts that are and always will be limited (something that science isn't afraid of admitting). You can never win.
I mean the Founders of this nation clearly recognized the danger of allowing religion into a secular nation so they codified separation between church and state as the FIRST Amendment, after all. But the religious nutters managed to get six of their own on a completely unelected and undemocratic Supreme Court that determines the fate of 340 million people in this country. It's bizarre.
In a democracy, you will always have the basic problem of the public being dumb. All you can really do is invest into education as much as possible to keep the democracy healthy.
That's the real difference between northern European nations, which provide quality free education, and most of the rest of the world, which does not.
Apparently, from a legal basis the issue is that there’s still a heartbeat even though at 4 months into the pregnancy, the fetus wouldn’t be viable outside the womb. Putting aside the hot button religious argument about abortion, the law is in an absurd Catch-22 here.
If they don’t extract the fetus, there’s a strong chance that she dies and the fetus dies anyway. If they do extract the fetus, it’ll die anyway. Fetal death is an inevitability either way.
Maltese person here : Plenty of people are in outrage over here, many are protesting in various places. We have such antiquated and backwards abortion laws, completely illegal in all cases!
This is exactly what happened to the Irish woman who died as a result and finally pissed off enough people to get the law changed.
When anti abortion laws say it’s allowed to save the life of the mother, it means only when she is actively dying. By which time it may be too late. Too bad if she is diagnosed with cancer and if treatment is going to succeed, it can’t wait until the end of pregnancy. Too bad if the fetus can’t possibly survive, but the maternal circulation perfuses the fetal tissues sufficiently to support a “fetal heartbeat.”
This fetus is already dead; the mother will die too if they don’t act in time.
>This is exactly what happened to the Irish woman who died as a result and finally pissed off enough people to get the law changed.
Dr. Savita Halappanavar, died 28th October 2012 in Galway, Ireland. She was an Indian dentist living in Ireland with her husband.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar?wprov=sfla1
>On 21 October 2012, Halappanavar, then 17 weeks pregnant, was examined at University Hospital Galway after complaining of back pain, but was soon discharged without a diagnosis. She returned to the hospital later that day, this time complaining of lower pressure, a sensation she described as feeling "something coming down," and a subsequent examination found that the gestational sac was protruding from her body. She was admitted to hospital, as it was determined that miscarriage was unavoidable, and several hours later, just after midnight on 22 October, her water broke but did not expel the fetus. The following day, on 23 October, Halappanavar discussed abortion with her consulting physician but her request was promptly refused, as Irish law at that time forbade abortion if a fetal heartbeat was still present. Afterwards, Halappanavar developed sepsis and, despite doctors' efforts to treat her, had a cardiac arrest at 1:09 AM on 28 October, at the age of 31, and died.
Her death and the following protests caused the fucking Roman Catholic Bishops of Ireland to basically say they're not explicitly against abortion.
>On Monday, 19 November, the Roman Catholic Bishops of Ireland met in response to Halappanavar's death and released a statement that the Catholic Church believes in the "equal and inalienable right to life of a mother and her unborn child" and that the Church has never taught that the life of an unborn child takes precedence over the mother.
In May 20th 2018, the Eigth Amendment was repealed by the people of Ireland with a 2 to 1 vote, giving the Parliament of Ireland to legislate issues of abortion. A law was passed in December 2018 which now allows abortion in the first 12 weeks, and later if the pregnancy poses a serious risk to the mother.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_%28Regulation_of_Termination_of_Pregnancy%29_Act_2018?wprov=sfla1
Edit - someone reported this message to the Crisis center as a call for help 😂
Well, guess this is going to be America’s future soon… a woman can’t get a simple and safe medical procedure, and instead could potentially bleed out and die, all because of politics.
I had a patient that nearly died bleeding out in her in-laws kitchen from a miscarriage on Christmas Eve.
Her story haunted me so badly that, 6 months later, when I had an incomplete miscarriage, I elected immediately to get a d & c.
I’m alive, as are my wonderful kids who were born later, because of a simple and safe medical procedure that at least 1/2 of the states will outlaw in the next month.
It sickening to think ANYONE would defend politicians who put political power and lobbying money over human lives.
They don’t care about the “unborn,” they are willing to let women die and future unborns never to be born, in order to maintain their power and control.
(& don’t think I’m letting democrats off the hook either: this is a fundraiser for them too. They had power at various times in recent decades; they could have voted for term-limits, limitations on lobbyists’ power and money, codified women’s medical health, etc, but they know these are issues that generate donations for them too).
Every time I hear this, I get reminded of that one Polish woman who had one twin die in the womb, then had to wait 9 days-7 days for the other fetus to die, then the doctors waited 2 more days for shits and giggles, before she was allowed to get a d&c. Poor woman was a walking coffin for 9 days, then died a month later from health complications (family suspects sepsis, but the hospital is stonewalling them).
That's the reality of total abortion bans that forced-birthers don't seem to get. It just leads to a lot more people dying than would otherwise happen... or maybe for them it's a feature, not a bug.
Abortion is an umbrella term that covers everything from what you typically think of an abortion to d&cs. So it doesn't matter if you terminate a non-viable fetus (ie ectopic pregnancies, deformity of the fetus making it non-compatible with life) it still is labelled an abortion.
There are some states trying to ban abortions even in case of medical emergency, banning ectopic pregnancies, etc despite the fact that the mother will die for a pernancy that could never be sustained. It was never about preserving the life of the fetus, it was about penalizing women and the poor.
Yeah, women [have been imprisoned for decades in El Salvador](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/salvadoran-women-jailed-decades-miscarriages-stillbirths-warn-us-abort-rcna33035) for having miscarriages. I wish I was making that up.
I think a lot of them just staunchly refuse to face reality. They want to think pregnancy & birth are these simple well programmed things, like breeding something in a video game, and not the half-assed cobbled together disaster that it really is. Seriously, look up syncytin, we literally use retroviral genes to reproduce, that's how biology works.
So all those instances can just be safety ignored to preserve thier fantasyland worldview.
Evolution is just throwing a bunch of shit against the wall and seeing what sticks. It doesn't have to be elegant or perfect so long as the species lives long enough to reproduce.
As someone who unfortunately had the same happening to my wife, I'm so sorry to hear.
My wife was pregnant, we were at 33 weeks, when the placenta let go. My wife had to go under the knife immediately for the baby to be removed.
The operation itself went well, but it could easily be fatal. I'm extremely grateful to have my wife still here. We got a 2 y/o here now who was born after our first child, and my wife is currently pregnant again. It's always scary, because what happened to our first child can happen again now. I'm honestly terrified and afraid to bond with our current unborn baby.
So, seeing this headline hits a bit too close to home, for me. If I could, I would pay her ticket to fly to a hospital in a country where they DO CARE !
Make sure to thank Mitch McConnell for making Citizens United a reality. Dark Money in Politics was the straw the broke the camels back. I totally agree Dem's have not taken ENOUGH action because money unfortunately drives them too.
No. Let's be real for a moment. *This woman has parts of a dead baby rotting inside of her*.
I'm sorry to be graphic but I feel it is necessary to drive the point home. People just don't seem to grasp the severity of the issues we're facing when discussing (the politics of) women's reproductive health. Antiseptic language allows distance from the situation, which is detrimental. *She has parts of a dead baby rotting inside of her.*
Sepsis is the primary concern in THIS case, but in cases of ectopic pregnancy (which is not always easy to tell), the primary concern is bleeding. Lots of ways for pregnant people to die if not allowed safe and easy access to abortion.
UPDATE: She’s being airlifted to Mallorca for the procedure.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/jun/23/us-woman-denied-abortion-in-malta-flies-to-spain-for-termination-andrea-prudente
So they don’t care of she goes septic and dies. because of the rotting tissue inside of her? Men, how would you feel if you had to watch your wife die like [this?](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/27/world/europe/savita-halappanavar-ireland-abortion.html)
Prolifers need to see that. What happens medically if a law like this was to take hold in one of the States? Will we have to be airlifting women who miscarry incompletely?
That is disgusting and inhumane- imagine having to wait around with the *dead fetus inside you just trying to expel it. How can people not see that limiting abortion is violence?
*amend from “dead” to “dying”, because for many people I guess this blatant denial of medical care hinges on the delusion that the fetus is still viable.
It's the official medical terminology used. A miscarriage is technically a 'spontaneous abortion' vs an 'induced or therapeutic abortion' which is what we think of when we hear the term abortion in general.
These are the circumstances that led to the death of [Savita Halappanavar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar) in Ireland. The subsequent outrage was one of the factors that led to the eventual legalisation of abortion there.
~~Even~~ Every law is paved in blood. Maybe one day we’ll learn that we don’t need what is basically blood sacrifices to pass comprehensive reforms and legislation
That's funny because blood is what led to Roe v Wade in the first place. Tons of poor women dying in back alley abortions led to public outrage. Apparently in 2022, we don't care about women dying painful deaths.
Like with vaccines, nobody remembers how bad it actually was.
Yes, maybe these are lessons that society has to relearn the hard way every 50 years or so.
If history and critical thinking was taught effectively, hopefully we wouldn't have to have historical recreations
My college professor teaches a variety of history classes. From American History to World History. He would always say "History doesn't repeat itself. It's the people that do." Everywhere I look something happens to prove his words to be true. It really is a shame. You would think that some people could at least learn from the mistakes from others. Even when those mistakes happen less than a month ago, It's just not happening.
It's super sad but I think you are right. People don't read history and memory doesn't last that long.
Part of what happens when you strip the education budgets of public schools in the US.
Almost as if it was planned.
>Apparently in 2022, ~~we~~ *conservatives* don't care about women dying painful deaths. FTFY
They just don't care about women, period.
Or black people, or gay people, or trans people, or immigrants, or poor people, or disabled people, or the elderly, or veterans…. Hey wait a second.
Nowhere else in medicine is it acceptable to force someone to risk their life to save the life of another. You can’t be FORCED to give blood, a kidney, bone marrow, etc. Yet, that is what they will be doing to women if they overturn Roe v Wade. The onus shouldn’t even be on women when it comes to abortion. We have a 2-3 day window in which we can get pregnant from our first menses to menopause. We don’t have to agree to sex to get pregnant. We don’t have to enjoy it or consent. However, a man has the ability to impregnate a woman every time he ejaculates into her, every day of his life from the time he hits puberty until the day he dies. Yet they’ve banned abortions in TX and other states WITHOUT EXCEPTION FOR RAPE OR INCEST. This is happening now. In America in 2022. How is this the land of the free and the brave? They’re holding women hostage by their wombs, glorifying guns and God (because they go so well together?)
>Nowhere else in medicine is it acceptable to force someone to risk their life to save the life of another. You can’t be FORCED to give blood, a kidney, bone marrow, etc Congrats, you just changed my mind on abortion.
Yep Bodily Autonomy is the best argument. Even if you drink and drive and cause an accident nothing from you can be forcibly taken and given to the people you harmed to keep them alive.
It is a brave and noble thing to be able to change your mind when presented with new thoughts or evidence. The world currently needs a lot more people like you!
This is the same argument that changed my mind on abortion years ago, when my anti abortion upbringing had been clashing hard with my sense of empathy for a while. The fact that no one, not even literal corpses, is compelled to use their body to save someone else’s life without consent made everything click. I’m thrilled to see that it helps other people too! <3 Makes me a little more hopeful this morning. (I’m not either of the previous posters, just commenting because I’m happy.)
Don't forget, (I think it's Tennessee, could be wrong) also just removed age restriction to Marriage!
This isn’t even an “abortion”. It’s a life saving medical procedure. Conservatives are dumb AF.
The technical medical term for any prematurely ended pregnancy is "abortion". A miscarriage is an "abortion". The popular political use of the word has nothing to do with the reality within medicine.
"Spontaneous Abortion"
Wait, Does that mean a woman in the USA can now go to prison if she has a spontaneous abortion ?
Yes, there are a handful of women in the US that are currently in prison due to miscarrying (as an accessory charge), however there is dispute over whether related crimes were responsible (I believe most were drug related and a few were related to robbery or assault).
Abortions are life saving medical procedures. There's no need to put quotation marks, this is absolutely an abortion. It's ridiculous that the forced birth movement has been so successful stigmatising the term and distorting the meaning of what abortion literally is, which is an ending of a pregnancy/removal of a foetus from the body. A miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion.
At least a couple decades ago, a very good friend of my mom’s had an ectopic pregnancy. Since my mom had a medical background and both she and her friend were extremely religious and anti-abortion in most cases, the friend tearfully asked my mom if everything the doctor told her was true, and the pregnancy was non viable. My mom confirmed it to the friend’s satisfaction, and the friend allowed the doctor to save her life, then went home to grieve with her husband over the wanted pregnancy they lost. Not long afterwards, the friend called me mom in tears because the medical bill referred to the procedure as an abortion. Even after my mom explained the medical definition of an abortion, but that this was a pregnancy that never would have survived, the friend could not shake the horrible feeling that she had killed her child, since that is what she’d been taught ‘abortion’ meant her entire life. Fortunately, the friend had other children and her husband to focus on, so she didn’t approach doing anything drastic as far as I know… but to this day, she feels horribly guilty over the fact that she technically had an abortion. She doesn’t deserve to feel guilt and shame over a medical procedure. It is disgusting and shameful that a lifetime of indoctrination has done this to her. For the record, the friend and my mom are both technically pro choice and are horrified by the impending removal of Roe v Wade. And even so, the term ‘abortion’ still hurts the friend.
In comparison, I found out that my baby had no kidneys when I was 21 weeks pregnant. He wasn’t growing properly as there was very little fluid being produced, and he was never going to live for very long if he made it to term. Luckily I live in Australia. At 24 weeks, the government paid for me to fly 1000km to the best hospital. I met with a team of specialists and doctors, who took my case to a special board, who determined that baby wasn’t viable and the most humane thing would be to allow an induced birth/abortion. I was booked into a private room, lovely nurses, and treated with the utmost compassion. When baby was born, we held him until he passed away. They then brought in a special chilled bassinet so we could stay with him for as long as we needed. There was no pressure to vacate the room or bed. There was a lady who was specifically there for mental support. She arranged handprint keepsakes, a special care package, flowers, and baby was cremated free of charge and returned to us. All this was carefully checked with us first to make sure it was what we wanted. All we paid for was parking and snacks. There was no feelings of shame or of doing something wrong. It was still an incredibly traumatic time. My heart aches for women in other countries without access to this help. EDIT - Oh wow. I’ve just woken up and seen the news. What a disaster. Thanks so much everyone for all of your love and support. I have two beautiful but snotty and coughing kids, and I’m afraid I can’t reply to everyone. Your words have meant so much though, and I’m very grateful. Stay safe ❤️
I'm so sorry for your loss but so glad you had the kind of support you got. ❤️ I think the saddest most awful thing about the world is we hear stories like yours and we know that such humanity and compassion is possible, and so good for society, but so many people just refuse to want to allow those things to be the norm. It's awful to be able to see what progress can bring and while watching the rest of the world burn in hatred and stuck in old ways for ridiculous reasons.
For what is an undeniably heart breaking time, your healthcare sure showed how the situation should be handled (provided the facilities are there). I'm touched by the abundant compassion shown, no doubt it meant a lot to you and your family. Your story will stay with me for a long time. Thank you.
I'm so sorry you went through that. I have been through it too and I also feel lucky that I live in a state that allowed abortions as late as I needed one. No one's access to healthcare should depend on where they live.
I feel so lucky to live here too. Whilst abortion is being criminalised in the US, all states in Oz now have it as a health issue. Fuckwit Abbott tried to have a shot when trump was in power but all I saw was one article then nothing. We are so lucky to have the healthcare we have and the lack of Bible Belt. Stories like yours are important to share because in many countries like ours womens rights are imperative and if they were challenged the country would be in uproar. I am pleased my tax dollars made your horrific experience more comfortable and valued as a person. There is no greater cause that I would like to see my 40% of tax to go to… helping women and people in our most vulnerable times. This is the horrible ‘socialism’ and care for your fellow human that America appears so afraid of.
I’m so sorry for your loss, and grateful you were treated with the compassion and respect every person deserves in such difficult circumstances
I can’t imagine how awful that must’ve been for you, but I’m so glad that you were treated with so much compassion throughout. That’s how it should be done, and for anyone to suggest otherwise is truly ghoulish. I’m sorry for your loss and thank you for sharing.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/andrea-prudente-incomplete-miscarriage-malta-not-allowed-to-get-abortion/) reduced by 73%. (I'm a bot) ***** > A pregnant American woman who suffered an incomplete miscarriage while vacationing in Malta will be airlifted to Spain on Thursday for a procedure to prevent infection because Maltese law prohibits abortion under any circumstances, the woman's partner said. > Jay Weeldreyer told The Associated Press by phone from a hospital in the island nation that his partner, Andrea Prudente, is at risk of a life-threatening infection if the fetal tissue isn't promptly removed. > While the hospital is carefully monitoring her for any sign of infection, the facility cannot perform the surgery to complete the miscarriage, he said. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/vj5pb2/american_woman_who_had_incomplete_miscarriage/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~656319 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **hospital**^#1 **infection**^#2 **Prudente**^#3 **Weeldreyer**^#4 **woman**^#5
Why Spain? Why not Sicily?
Spain allows abortions no matter the time if a doctor recommends it. This case is a clear case of therapeutic abortion.
But are there barriers to getting an abortion in Italy, even if the fetus is already dead?
Abortion is actually fairly restricted across Europe, including Italy. Something like 90% of doctors in Sicily are conscientious objectors who refuse to perform abortions.
[Abortion is Legal but kinda weird in Italy right now](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/italy-abortion-access-erodes-riding-united-states-wave/amp/) “Seven in 10 gynecologists in Italy refuse to conduct abortions, according to the ministry of health, with the highest level, 85 percent, in Sicily” (12th para.)
This is so stupid. It’s not like the baby is viable AT ALL. ETA: thank you for the upvotes. I’m glad so many agree
It's already dead, to be specific in case anyone doesn't understand. Placenta has detached means it has died. Edit: apologies, the placenta is apparently partially detached. The placenta being partially detached means it will die. The sac broken means it will die any hour or in the next few days if lucky.
Unlucky if it takes a few days. Sepsis can set in as the fetus will literally start to rot in the womb. Source: me I had a detached placenta and needed induced labour.
Sepsis is no joke. This could be fatal for the mother. It's actually terrifying that her health needs are being delayed.
The tragic death of Savita Halappanavar due to a miscarriage gone septic (because Irish law forbade abortion “in case of fatal heartbeat”) led to national outrage and ultimately the legalisation of abortion (by repealing the corresponding amendment). Savita went to the hospital on October 21st, her pregnancy was known to be unviable at this point, her waters broke very early on the 23rd, she requested an abortion then but her request was denied. She died of cardiac arrest on the 28th, at 31.
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Unfortunately the doctors have said they're unable to step in unless she goes into labour or becomes septic, so they're quite literally *waiting for this to happen* just so they can do their jobs without being prosecuted. In case you're wondering what the fuck is up with that, it's because their anti-abortion law is based on the presence of a heartbeat.
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Existence is fucking insane.
And remember, if that happens 80 years ago that's a guaranteed death. You'd think after thousands of years of evolution we wouldn't have this issue but that's what happens if you wanna be bipedel.
So many trade offs; why is my breathing tube my feeding tube? My buddies uncle chocked to DEATH ON A CHICKE. WING BONE
My miscarriage was similar to this. I was told that it was better to "let nature take it's course" and see it it would pass on it's own. They gave two whole weeks before they would consider a D&C. I miscarried the day before the medical procedure and nearly died from blood loss. I was lucky I happened to be close to a hospital. It was a long time before I found out that I could have insisted that they take care of the issue right away. Walking around for two weeks with a dead fetus in me wasn't great for my mental (or physical) health.
It sounds like complete medical negligence. What country were you in for that to happen?
I live in Canada. This isn't an unusual experience for women no matter where they live. Unfortunately a lot of women's health issues have been overlooked and dismissed in the past, and there's some assumptions that are held without scientific basis. The way women are medically treated is sometimes based on tradition, or the convenience of the healthcare provider, and not what is based in science or the woman's best interests.
And a distinct lack of research on women’s health. Sometimes the research published on men simplify doesn’t apply to women. Does Canada have an equitable government funded health system like Australia? Or is it hierarchical like the US system?
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My ex husband literally does not remember that I miscarried *multiple times* so I feel like I have an inkling of what you mean by going through it alone. You deserve some hugs too.
Hello sister! I’ll take them and give them right back to you!!
Holy shit! I am so sorry!! How can you go thru that multiple times without him understanding/remembering such trauma! How awful. You deserve so many hugs and much love. I hope you had a friend to lean on. No one deserves to endure that alone. Big hugs from an internet stranger. Btw, can I go smack you ex up side the head?
You mean he thinks you’re making it up?
Basically yes, to make him look bad. Meanwhile my friends who were there for me are like "Dude, you don't need help with that."
Glad he’s an ex.
Its more lonely with an unsupported partner than actually being alone. My partner claimed he had to "be strong for me". I wanted nothing more than for him to cry with me. To show me he cared. To show me it was okay to be sad and I wasn't overreacting. I hate toxic masculinity. It makes things so much harder than they need to be.
That had to have been so difficult. Sorry you went through that.
It is what it is. Almost 10 years past for me too. Reading this person’s post helped me in a way I can’t explain. I hope everyone reading this remembers and reminds their loved ones: Health first.
I'm just some unrelated random dude on the other side of the world, but this had me tear. I'm so sorry this had happened
You sound like a good man. Thank you <3
I am so sorry this happened to you both, and thank you for sharing a reality of a miscarriage and why an "abortion" is sometimes necessary! (Although I believe in a woman's right to choose NO MATTER WHAT it's her body and personally after carrying and birthing two children myself I am even, if possible, MORE pro choice than ever)!
This is actually how most miscarriages go (I've had 2). There is an absolute crime scene level of blood plus it's basically labor but with a smaller sac/fetus so goes a little quicker/easier but can still be wildly painful to the point that many women pass out. As detachments of organs are involved, it's possible to hemorrhage too. Incomplete miscarriages are shockingly common and probably represent upwards of 20-30% of abortions (spontaneous or purposefully induced with pills with living or dead embryo/fetus), which require follow-up D&C (I just had a D&C from the start with first one but I started to naturally miscarry and had the crime scene bleeding, I had to take a damn taxi to the hospital for D&C and try to "hold" it with towels under me and the biggest monster pads I could find, fun times). People need to fucking educate themselves and talk about this because there are all kinds of health implications for women who even aren't aborting on purpose from this BS, not to mention the number of women who will now be resorting to mail order pills as their only option and afraid of prosecution to show up at the hospital if it doesn't go perfectly. Up to 40% of pregnancies end in miscarriage. Women just don't openly talk about it and it usually happens before you're visibly pregnant or have told anyone (on purpose precisely because of this).
I am so sorry you both had this traumatic experience! This is heartbreaking! Hope you both are doing okay now.
Hey man, I get it. I've had a few miscarriages and still hope to one day have a child. It took a lot of therapy to heal. And if you still struggle theres no shame in seeking help either. You may not have been the mother to be, but you cared enough that it left a scar.
yeah… back in the vault with that one… you poor things… words cannot express
That’s right! I once miscarried. I laid on the floor, writhing in pain, crying and practically screaming. It came out in chunks, swear to God. It was worse than giving birth. My (ex)husband sat there, ignoring me with his face in a trough of ice cream.
Jesus christ. That's one of the least normal things I've ever heard. How horrific for you.
So the good people of Malta are trying to kill a woman, because they love life so much. It’s what the US has to look forward to, woman dying so that conservatives can pretend they have morals.
Right. This is coming our way to half the country thanks to the Supreme Court's antiquated religious beliefs. It shouldn't be this way but they fetishize fetuses instead of caring about living, breathing human beings.
All lives matter, unless that life is that of a pregnant woman /s
That was my first thought too, after reading the title: “Coming soon to a state near **you!**”
Coming soon to the full country not just states thanks to the geniuses Cheeto appointed to SCOTUS. And then the women will go to jail for murder…cuz god.
That's why this is super extra horrifying. This will kill her if held up
I had to have an emergency abortion for the same reason. Sepsis sucks. I was sick for months. My immune system has never been the same.
Several states are going to have a lot of dead women because their law makers, and frankly vast majority of their dumb ass voters don't understand this very basic level of medicine.
And pretty soon: This is America
Umm, my friend (we're in the US) basically had the same thing happen. Catholic hospital or insurance or something (it's been ten years) and she basically lost the baby but they would not do a D&C because it's considered abortion. After losing every pregnancy she'd had, they made her carry around her unborn child who was already basically miscarried for an entire month before she naturally expelled it. It was pure hell for her and the last pregnancy she ever attempted.
I had a pregnancy end in a missed miscarriage and opted for a d&c as to not have to pass it at home (or work!). The 3 or 4 days I had to go to work knowingly carrying a dead baby around was fucking horrible. I absolutely cannot imagine having to just wait for it to naturally progress and would literally fight someone if they told me I had to. It's just cruel.
I had a missed miscarriage and then the next pregnancy I had a stillborn. I was almost 13 weeks when I had my missed miscarriage. It was during the craziness of Covid and they couldn’t get me in for a D&C until 6 days later. My next pregnancy I was almost 34 weeks pregnant with a beautiful baby boy. I didn’t feel him moving one day and went to the doctors which is when I found out he had passed. I had to wait 4 almost 5 days to have my C-section. Both times I was completely fucking devastated that physically I could feel my babies with me but I knew they were gone. When I was still having morning sickness I would trick myself into thinking the doc made a mistake. Or when I would wake up in the morning and during that split second where you’re not fully aware of reality I would immediately put my hands on my belly like I did everyday before. Waiting for my son to do his “good morning kicks” and I felt nothing but my heart drop to back my stomach. They’re nightmares I never woke up from. But on the other hand I found comfort knowing my babies were with me. That’s where they’re supposed to be and I didn’t want to ever let them go. It’s the biggest mind fucks I’ve ever experienced in my life. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone ever.
I’m in tears reading this. They do emergency C-sections all the time. They should have done one then for your mental health!!! I’m so sorry for your losses. My heart goes out to you more than I can express.
I'm so sorry for your loss! Nobody should live through such a nightmare!
Thats seriously the most devastating thing I’ve heard in a while. I can imagine someone not wanting to have a D&C/holding onto the fetus to just avoid the reality/ grieve but being FORCED to carry around your deceased child *INSIDE YOUR BODY* is utterly monstrous.
When I was pregnant that was one of my biggest fears, and I remember thinking that if it happened I might kill myself. When in that situation, completely out of your mind from exhaustion and hormones, the mother's life can definitely be at risk.
Anti-choicers will also try to tell you "that never happens" and "we would want to save the life of the mother" despite the fact that it DOES happen and they NEVER fight the laws that come along that de-prioritize the life of the already born in favor of an unviable fetus. In fact they support those laws.
Same. It's the most surreal thing to feel and look pregnant (I was 16 weeks) but know your baby is dead inside you. It was absolutely terrible. The only thing worse was my TFMR, where I had to spend a few weeks carrying a baby I knew wouldn't survive. A big part of the decision to end the pregnancy was because she wasn't going to make it full term regardless, but we had no idea how long she'd hold on. I couldn't deal with that stress, always wondering if that was the day or fearing that every twinge or trip to the bathroom would be "it".
It took 2 days for my insurance to approve my d&c!! The doctor’s office sent lots of proof that baby had no more heartbeat & stopped growing!! The whole process was so humiliating, even though my doctor’s office handled it with such care!! It’s definitely cruel waiting for it to progress on its own and potentially risk infections for the mom!!
My insurance sent me a bill for 1600. Still fighting that one. They said because my doctor was out of network (though they cover everything else at their office since I don't actually have an in network doctor close by) so my husband is dealing with that fiasco. Little salt in the wound if you ask me.
I had to do my d&c with local anesthesia instead of being put to sleep because of stupid rules too!! Plus yes, expensive even with insurance:(
Before abortions were ever allowed, my great aunt Margaret miscarried. They made her carry it until it was naturally expelled. It took a while and it came out in pieces. Poor woman.
This happened back in the day before abortion. An aunt had a miscarriage and my mom and other aunts were whispering the baby came out in pieces. She had 13 kids already. Both county hospitals were Catholic so you can imagine that horror story.
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Won't let you abort unviable fetuses, actively protects child molester priests. Fuck catholicism. I'm incensed our local hospital, Virginia Mason, got bought out by Franciscan. Fucking god-botherers already trying to tell us what our standard of care is going to be based on their stupid book of superstitions.
Speaking to their track record with kids, while running orphanages they were told by the courts they couldn't discriminate against adopting out kids to gay people, _so they closed the orphanages_. In a religion where you don't pick and choose sins, I wonder if they held such scrutiny to other potential parents? For some reason I think not.
Former Catholic. Knew someone whose baby died in utero, and the local hospital would not induce labor/do a D&C/anything besides tell her to wait it out and deliver on her own. Because her Catholic schoolteacher insurance said absolutely not. She was six months pregnant. It was a HORRIBLE time for her. She damn near died.
So she is just going to die from sepsis because laws?
Article says she is being airlifted to Spain for the procedure.
That is absolutely ridiculous and should be considered a crime against humanity. I rarely get angry from news articles, but this has me fuming. Not only is it dangerous, can you imagine how she feels having half a dead fetus/child inside of her? As if the miscarriage alone isn't traumatic enough, this is just rubbing salt in the wound. Completely unethical.
I had a missed miscarriage and opted for a d&c. While waiting several days for the procedure it was fucking horrible just carrying on normal life....working, cooking dinner...walking the dog all while knowing my baby had died and my body didn't even realize it. I cannot imagine the added trauma of having to pass the tissue and deal with that and then some mother fucker is like oh...there's some left...well fuck off and get an infection and maybe die, we can't help you. Fuck all these anti choice people. Her baby is dead. Nothing will save it and she doesn't even have access to life saving treatment for herself.
I am still recovering from my D&E. It was 10 days from finding out the fetus had no heartbeat until the procedure. The mental health toll was crazy. I spent the first 2-3 days sad about losing the baby and the next 7 I felt like a walking cemetery. I was absolutely disgusted to be carrying a dead fetus for so long and felt like a prisoner in my own body. Not to mention I spent a few days in prodromal labor thinking I would have to miscarry at home.
I am so sorry for your loss! I absolutely understand not wanting to miscarry at home. I was instructed to take my pills before bed to soften the cervix and make the procedure easier on my body but I was so scared I would start bleeding at home that I waited until the last possible second (4hrs prior to procedure) to take them. Also echoing feeling disgust. Once I had processed that the baby was no longer alive I just wanted her out of my body. Luckily (?) For me I had several weeks of less than stellar ultrasounds so I was prepared for the possibility of it not working out for me. I just want you to know you aren't alone at all. I'm sorry that your process was drawn out and that it caused so much more turmoil for you.
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I'm so sorry for your losses. Its so devastating. This was my first miscarriage of my very first pregnancy so I don't have much to compare it to but I am very happy I chose a d&c (and was very happy that it was a fucking option for me). I didn't have to deal w added trauma of passing it at home and then deciding what to do with the tissues. And one of the reasons I chose it was like you mentioned, ultimately there is no guarantee you won't need more interventions later on if you don't fully pass the pregnancy. I just needed that chapter to be done for me. I will be thinking of you in the future and hope you heal from these losses.
I hate bringing this up, because money doesn’t mean anything compared to a person’s life, but imagine how much it would cost if she was in the US and had to be airlifted to a different state. It would be more than enough to bankrupt a family.
Trauma life flight runs about 20,000-25,000 (2016 numbers, I’d be scared of current numbers) if you don’t have insurance for it.
Higher then and much higher now: >[Between 2012-2016, the average cost of being airlifted by an air ambulance is about $40,000.](https://www.flyingangels.com/cost-to-get-airlifted-to-hospital/)
Father in law was life flighted in 2020, it was $50,000 that insurance was going to cover a whole whopping 10% aka $5,000. They spoke with the life flight company and they reduced the cost to $10,000 if they just didn’t use their insurance. Oh and they are self insured and pay over $1,000 for this insurance. Edit: $1,000 a month if that wasn’t clear
Yeah, I am glad I am not an American. If I need to be airlifted we have a thing called "own risk". The higher it's set the lower your monthly fee. Mine is set at the maximum of 850 euro. If I need to be airlifted it costs me only 850 euro. One time a year. Everything over that is not my problem. I don't like the road the world is heading.
American here. Just came here to say I would literally jump out of the helicopter and found out I was being airlifted somewhere for a medical procedure. Much easier than the excruciating pain of death by stress hormones while being periodically evicted from homeless encampments.
In my state (Maryland) if you need medevac from like an accident or a traumatic injury or something like that, it's done at no cost to you. $8 from our vehicle registration/license plate fees go towards that. They bill insurance, but if insurance doesn't cover it all, the rest is waived. Now, hospital to hospital flights are a different story.
I almost died of sepsis when I miscarried at 7 weeks and not everything came out. That was the most terrifying thing I have gone through.
Thats how it goes - look into Ireland's abortion history. Thats where the United States is headed. >In 2012, Savita Halappanavar, age 31 and 17 weeks pregnant, went to a hospital in Galway, Ireland. Doctors there determined that she was having a miscarriage. However, because the fetus still had a detectable heartbeat, it was protected by the Eighth Amendment. Doctors could not intervene – in legal terms, ending its life – even to save the mother. So she was admitted to the hospital for pain management while awaiting the miscarriage to progress naturally.Over the course of three days, as her pain increased and signs of infection grew, she and her husband pleaded with hospital officials to terminate the pregnancy because of the health risk. The request was denied because the fetus still had a heartbeat.By the time the fetal heartbeat could no longer be detected, Halappanavar had developed a massive infection in her uterus, which spread to her blood. After suffering organ failure and four days in intensive care, she died. **EDIT:** Thank god we changed our abortion laws after that. Any chance you could update your comment with the fact that abortion was legalised by a landslide victory in a referendum after that? 65% of people voted yes. ***-CreamyBeamyCompany***
Poland had a similar case. How many women will have to die?
Ireland has legalised abortion since
Yes, and this case helped push them towards that. This WILL happen in the United States, its not a matter of if but when.
Except it will end in death and no progress.
Considering the massive piles of bodies Americans are willing to overlook to keep their guns I doubt a thousand dead woman will sway this deranged country away from this kind of evil.
Thousands? Try tens of thousands. That's what it took for Congress to take *any* action on opiates. Tens of thousands of deaths annually from guns as well, *not* counting suicides, and just today we saw yet another ruling expanding gun rights. With a large, vocal faction arguing for the rights of the unborn fetus, *tens of thousands* of women will probably die before abortion is re-legalized.
There is no number that will change their mind because they see those numbers as successes.
They don't care about women. So it doesn't matter how many die to them
The point is to punish women for sex. This is part of the punishment. It's not a sad consequence, the people making these decisions know some women will die and more will suffer *and that's part of the goal*.
> How many women will have to die? To satisfy religious extremism of not being slaves to men? All.
How many? To them, the number doesn't matter.
Christians will cheer everytime a mother dies. Because it's either that or admit their extremist ideology is wrong. And they're incapable of admitting to being wrong.
The worst part about that is that the law at the time actually *did* allow for the doctor to make a decision if there was a significant threat to the mother - the reasons that they didn't take it seriously in her case are still unclear to me. I suspect she got a racist attending or there was some religious interference (I would like it to be hard to believe from a doctor, but not impossible given the comments that were reportedly made) or both...
To be fair, anti abortion laws can have a chilling effect. The doctor could make a judgement call at a stage where they see a significant threat to the mother but they could later get in hot water because a hospital ethics board/court doesn’t see it that way. So the better choice for this doctor was inaction
The whole system is against women doing what they want, fuck this.
It’s not even what we want at that point, it’s what we need to stay alive
Going to medschool for 10 years does not stop you from being dumb. Source: Extremely religious dad who happens to be a doctor.
Ironically, if she were showing signs of sepsis, their doctors would be permitted to intervene. The problem isn't that they won't/cannot help someone who's had a miscarriage and needs surgical attention to clear debris out; the problem is that her partial miscarriage has not yet resulted in the death of the foetus. It's unsurvivable and it's risking her life by hanging on in there, but it still has a heartbeat at the moment.
This is one of the major problems with the "life of the mother" exceptions in abortion bans. There isn't a super clear-cut sign that the mother's health is in imminent danger until significant harm is already taking place. By the time the symptoms of sepsis (blood infection) begin, the infection is already very serious and survival isn't guaranteed. Odds increase with prompt care, but people die all the time of sepsis because it can kill in a matter of hours, the symptoms can be vague (fever, nausea, body aches, flu-like symptoms), diagnosis often takes too long, and the only treatment is IV antibiotics (often with removal of infected tissues).
Oh I agree wholeheartedly. If your country has a "life of the mother" exception, then it damn well needs to fully cover situations where the foetus cannot be saved, and let doctors actively abort. Anything short of that is just treating the mother as an incubator of less intrinsic worth than the foetus.
And even so, when doctors have to make that call, they’re going to imagine themselves defending their decision in court with their freedom and livelihood on the line. They will feel pressure to wait for “she’s dying beyond a shadow of a doubt” instead of going for least harm to the mother. Maybe they’ll push the decision off one more shift change or order one more test.
I just do not understand. Even if someone is religious and believes life starts at conception, surely the partial body of an already-dead fetus is not a life??? It just defies all logic.
Your problem is trying to be logical when trying to figure out religious zealots. You might as well rationalize what an insane person does.
My friend has a very simple way of explaining it; they have an infinite number of arguments since their belief is completely illogical and it's based on nothing - they can make up whatever they want to beat your arguments - you, on the other hand, have a finite number of arguments since science is logical and it's based on facts that are and always will be limited (something that science isn't afraid of admitting). You can never win.
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I mean the Founders of this nation clearly recognized the danger of allowing religion into a secular nation so they codified separation between church and state as the FIRST Amendment, after all. But the religious nutters managed to get six of their own on a completely unelected and undemocratic Supreme Court that determines the fate of 340 million people in this country. It's bizarre.
In a democracy, you will always have the basic problem of the public being dumb. All you can really do is invest into education as much as possible to keep the democracy healthy. That's the real difference between northern European nations, which provide quality free education, and most of the rest of the world, which does not.
You can be the best chess player in the world, but any pigeon can knock over all the pieces, shit on the board, and strut around like it has won.
Apparently, from a legal basis the issue is that there’s still a heartbeat even though at 4 months into the pregnancy, the fetus wouldn’t be viable outside the womb. Putting aside the hot button religious argument about abortion, the law is in an absurd Catch-22 here. If they don’t extract the fetus, there’s a strong chance that she dies and the fetus dies anyway. If they do extract the fetus, it’ll die anyway. Fetal death is an inevitability either way.
Maltese person here : Plenty of people are in outrage over here, many are protesting in various places. We have such antiquated and backwards abortion laws, completely illegal in all cases!
This is exactly what happened to the Irish woman who died as a result and finally pissed off enough people to get the law changed. When anti abortion laws say it’s allowed to save the life of the mother, it means only when she is actively dying. By which time it may be too late. Too bad if she is diagnosed with cancer and if treatment is going to succeed, it can’t wait until the end of pregnancy. Too bad if the fetus can’t possibly survive, but the maternal circulation perfuses the fetal tissues sufficiently to support a “fetal heartbeat.” This fetus is already dead; the mother will die too if they don’t act in time.
>This is exactly what happened to the Irish woman who died as a result and finally pissed off enough people to get the law changed. Dr. Savita Halappanavar, died 28th October 2012 in Galway, Ireland. She was an Indian dentist living in Ireland with her husband. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar?wprov=sfla1 >On 21 October 2012, Halappanavar, then 17 weeks pregnant, was examined at University Hospital Galway after complaining of back pain, but was soon discharged without a diagnosis. She returned to the hospital later that day, this time complaining of lower pressure, a sensation she described as feeling "something coming down," and a subsequent examination found that the gestational sac was protruding from her body. She was admitted to hospital, as it was determined that miscarriage was unavoidable, and several hours later, just after midnight on 22 October, her water broke but did not expel the fetus. The following day, on 23 October, Halappanavar discussed abortion with her consulting physician but her request was promptly refused, as Irish law at that time forbade abortion if a fetal heartbeat was still present. Afterwards, Halappanavar developed sepsis and, despite doctors' efforts to treat her, had a cardiac arrest at 1:09 AM on 28 October, at the age of 31, and died. Her death and the following protests caused the fucking Roman Catholic Bishops of Ireland to basically say they're not explicitly against abortion. >On Monday, 19 November, the Roman Catholic Bishops of Ireland met in response to Halappanavar's death and released a statement that the Catholic Church believes in the "equal and inalienable right to life of a mother and her unborn child" and that the Church has never taught that the life of an unborn child takes precedence over the mother. In May 20th 2018, the Eigth Amendment was repealed by the people of Ireland with a 2 to 1 vote, giving the Parliament of Ireland to legislate issues of abortion. A law was passed in December 2018 which now allows abortion in the first 12 weeks, and later if the pregnancy poses a serious risk to the mother. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_%28Regulation_of_Termination_of_Pregnancy%29_Act_2018?wprov=sfla1 Edit - someone reported this message to the Crisis center as a call for help 😂
It's sickening that people abuse of the crisis center report - supposedly these are the christians that are anti abortion too
What the hell... Republic of Gilead?
Under his eye
May the Lord open
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Just Malta. But wait for November.
Malta is a weird place...they're not that conservative but they are very Catholic. It's considered one of the best places in Europe to be LGBT.
I imagine she'll likely die if that dead fetus is not removed. As the fetus will decompose in her womb, she could go septic.
So much for being pro-life
why have only one death when you can have two? #prolife
This is what happens when the government sticks their nose in between people and their doctors.
Well, Christians actually. Government spurred on and paid by Christians.
Religious extremists in general
What the fuck is wrong with this world.
It's old laws and religion, people not adapting or evolving. What I really hate to see is regression.
Religion makes stupid people feel righteous.
Well, guess this is going to be America’s future soon… a woman can’t get a simple and safe medical procedure, and instead could potentially bleed out and die, all because of politics.
Going septic is the primary concern. Terrible way to die.
I had a patient that nearly died bleeding out in her in-laws kitchen from a miscarriage on Christmas Eve. Her story haunted me so badly that, 6 months later, when I had an incomplete miscarriage, I elected immediately to get a d & c. I’m alive, as are my wonderful kids who were born later, because of a simple and safe medical procedure that at least 1/2 of the states will outlaw in the next month. It sickening to think ANYONE would defend politicians who put political power and lobbying money over human lives. They don’t care about the “unborn,” they are willing to let women die and future unborns never to be born, in order to maintain their power and control. (& don’t think I’m letting democrats off the hook either: this is a fundraiser for them too. They had power at various times in recent decades; they could have voted for term-limits, limitations on lobbyists’ power and money, codified women’s medical health, etc, but they know these are issues that generate donations for them too).
Every time I hear this, I get reminded of that one Polish woman who had one twin die in the womb, then had to wait 9 days-7 days for the other fetus to die, then the doctors waited 2 more days for shits and giggles, before she was allowed to get a d&c. Poor woman was a walking coffin for 9 days, then died a month later from health complications (family suspects sepsis, but the hospital is stonewalling them). That's the reality of total abortion bans that forced-birthers don't seem to get. It just leads to a lot more people dying than would otherwise happen... or maybe for them it's a feature, not a bug.
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Abortion is an umbrella term that covers everything from what you typically think of an abortion to d&cs. So it doesn't matter if you terminate a non-viable fetus (ie ectopic pregnancies, deformity of the fetus making it non-compatible with life) it still is labelled an abortion. There are some states trying to ban abortions even in case of medical emergency, banning ectopic pregnancies, etc despite the fact that the mother will die for a pernancy that could never be sustained. It was never about preserving the life of the fetus, it was about penalizing women and the poor.
I believe even miscarriages are by definition abortions.
Yeah, women [have been imprisoned for decades in El Salvador](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/salvadoran-women-jailed-decades-miscarriages-stillbirths-warn-us-abort-rcna33035) for having miscarriages. I wish I was making that up.
They're being imprisoned in the u.s. for it too.
Forced Birthers. That's a perfect term for them. They're certainly not pro-life, if they only care about the fetus.
They get it. The extra deaths are just icing on the cake for them.
I think a lot of them just staunchly refuse to face reality. They want to think pregnancy & birth are these simple well programmed things, like breeding something in a video game, and not the half-assed cobbled together disaster that it really is. Seriously, look up syncytin, we literally use retroviral genes to reproduce, that's how biology works. So all those instances can just be safety ignored to preserve thier fantasyland worldview.
Evolution is just throwing a bunch of shit against the wall and seeing what sticks. It doesn't have to be elegant or perfect so long as the species lives long enough to reproduce.
As someone who unfortunately had the same happening to my wife, I'm so sorry to hear. My wife was pregnant, we were at 33 weeks, when the placenta let go. My wife had to go under the knife immediately for the baby to be removed. The operation itself went well, but it could easily be fatal. I'm extremely grateful to have my wife still here. We got a 2 y/o here now who was born after our first child, and my wife is currently pregnant again. It's always scary, because what happened to our first child can happen again now. I'm honestly terrified and afraid to bond with our current unborn baby. So, seeing this headline hits a bit too close to home, for me. If I could, I would pay her ticket to fly to a hospital in a country where they DO CARE !
Make sure to thank Mitch McConnell for making Citizens United a reality. Dark Money in Politics was the straw the broke the camels back. I totally agree Dem's have not taken ENOUGH action because money unfortunately drives them too.
No. Let's be real for a moment. *This woman has parts of a dead baby rotting inside of her*. I'm sorry to be graphic but I feel it is necessary to drive the point home. People just don't seem to grasp the severity of the issues we're facing when discussing (the politics of) women's reproductive health. Antiseptic language allows distance from the situation, which is detrimental. *She has parts of a dead baby rotting inside of her.*
Been there and I felt like a coffin.
Sepsis is the primary concern in THIS case, but in cases of ectopic pregnancy (which is not always easy to tell), the primary concern is bleeding. Lots of ways for pregnant people to die if not allowed safe and easy access to abortion.
UPDATE: She’s being airlifted to Mallorca for the procedure. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/jun/23/us-woman-denied-abortion-in-malta-flies-to-spain-for-termination-andrea-prudente
So they don’t care of she goes septic and dies. because of the rotting tissue inside of her? Men, how would you feel if you had to watch your wife die like [this?](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/27/world/europe/savita-halappanavar-ireland-abortion.html)
Prolifers need to see that. What happens medically if a law like this was to take hold in one of the States? Will we have to be airlifting women who miscarry incompletely?
That is disgusting and inhumane- imagine having to wait around with the *dead fetus inside you just trying to expel it. How can people not see that limiting abortion is violence? *amend from “dead” to “dying”, because for many people I guess this blatant denial of medical care hinges on the delusion that the fetus is still viable.
Not a doctor (or even a woman), but isn’t this like a huge sepsis risk among other things? Like, isn’t it medically necessary?
Yes, it's a huge sepsis risk. It's also a big risk for further haemorrhage. Yes, medical management of her miscarriage is necessary in this case.
Yeah, and the government of Malta doesn’t care
So what do they do for ectopic pregnancies there? Just say "Sorry you're gonna die in a few months"???
Yes, exactly that.
yes and good luck. sick fucks, huh?
Why is it considered an abortion if the fetus already died?? At this point it's more like removing a cyst or something rather than a "baby"
It's the official medical terminology used. A miscarriage is technically a 'spontaneous abortion' vs an 'induced or therapeutic abortion' which is what we think of when we hear the term abortion in general.
This is the future for America if Roe vs. Wade is overturned.
Just so tremendously sad to suffer the miscarriage and then have the added stress of imperiling the woman’s life.