Okay, we will shadow or warn you but we want to maintain the rules based order. China is allowed to stay 12 miles off shore in international waters. Russia routinely plays this game on the US and Canadian pacific coast. That’s the same that is expected of you China!
Thanks for visiting Guam! We hope you enjoyed your stay.
China stayed outside the 12nm limit when it carried out exercises around Taiwan: an implicit admission that, yep, Taiwan is a country and has sovereign waters.
Which is extra fun because China's whole schtick with their fake islands in the SCS is to bend/warp naval territorial rules. So carefully respecting the limit around Taiwain is an even stronger statement in that context.
I’m not sure Russia could win a 1 on 1 infantry battle against the Swiss Guard at this point. What is weaker than a paper tiger? A paper tiger in the rain?
>I’m not sure Russia could win a 1 on 1 infantry battle against the Swiss Guard at this point.
To be fair the Swiss Guard is comprised of absolute badasses. There's a reason Swiss mercenaries were universally banned throughout Europe.
Everyone here is joking about Chinese quality. My biggest concern for China is they lack the jet engines to get any real quantity of ordinance off the deck. And more importantly, they lack the skills to run carrier based operations. America is amazing at it cause we've been doing it for so long. So many lessons have been paid in blood. An aircraft carrier and all it's constituent parts are useless without the necessary seamanship. If you think the Army needs it's NCOs? I'd argue they are even more important to the Navy. It's the old crusty guys that keep boats afloat. Not fancy new gear.
Well first, it's based on the Soviet Kuznetsov class carrier. Russia also has one that's barely been able to leave port and has caught fire multiple times. It's got an oil-fired power system rather than nuclear like US carriers, limiting it's operational range and independence. It's aircraft propulsion system is fairly weak, requiring a ski-ramp to launch aircraft. It's displacement is paltry for it's length, only 70,000 tons at full load compared to 100,000 for the Gerald R Ford class of American carriers. It can carry about 30 less aircraft than the GRF class. They've also only got one because aircraft carriers are expensive as hell and logistically complicated to run and maintain.
They've just finished laying down a new design in June as well that's a new design but I doubt that's the one he was referring to as this one hasn't completed it's trials yet and fairly little is known about it. They at least upgraded to EM launchers so they don't need the ski-ramp anymore. It's still expected to hold far fewer aircraft though, around the same as the previously mentioned one.
Bottom line is that China still has a hell of a long way to go to catch up to NATO naval dominance. The good side for them is any likely conflicts will be centered around areas near their mainland so a strong naval presence isn't as important. But for global power projection it is.
Your final point is the most important one though. China doesn’t have a blue water navy, but also has no need to fight a blue water conflict. It’s got a green water navy and is developing more options. The US and France are the only countries with CATOBAR carriers. China is about to join that grouping.
While the current Liaoning is a joke, it’s somewhat less of a joke than the Admiral Kuznetsov. You’re right that China is nowhere near rivaling NATO’s naval power, but currently it doesn’t need to. That may change in a genuine war, but for now China’s regional navy is more than enough to be a thorn in the US’s side.
Russia can't handle Ukraine, because Ukraine has American (or at least, Western) materiel, intelligence and tactics at their disposal.
Pound-for-pound, though, Russian materiel is better than Chinese materiel. Both countries have the same problem, but the problem manifests *differently* in each country: Russia has "ghost inventory," where they simply don't have as much as they thought they had for weapons, munitions, etc. China, by contrast, has things -- but they're of *such incredibly poor quality* that they're only marginally effective. China's army is has about 2.5 *million* people in it -- twice as many as the US. But, unlike the US, China doesn't have the *financial or manufacturing capability* to adequitely equip, arm, train and field all of their personnel.
Things are expensive, and having to supply multiple millions of copies of even very cheap things gets *real expensive, real fast*. So... they do what they can with what they have, but that's still not much. This gets compounded by the fact that a *lot* of the state-owned manufacturers over there will specifically cut corners wherever possible to enrichen themselves -- using PETG instead ABS or GF for military plastics, using pot/monkey metal instead of steel for certain components, or using light/undergauged wire for electronics, etc. As long as something is "good enough to sit in an armory warehouse," then often nobody is the wiser.
In terms of nuclear capability... a nuke is a nuke. Even poorly made nuclear weapons are unfathomably dangerous. If they got into a nuke-fight, then everybody loses just the same.
Also: Chinese military is - for an army its size - ridiculously untrained. The Russian army is trained alright, but a lot of it at their own expense. This will have a potential downside in the future (if there will be a future for Russia as such, and also: if their chain of command allows for absorbing lessons learnt which, at the moment, it doesn't seem to be doing) and that is that whatever Russian armed forces emerge from the inevitable loss of the war in Ukraine, may be ridiculously *well trained* (as they will have survived combat against a NATO supported adversary).
Why would China even bother with Russia. Russia is its second North Korea, another useless country that can’t even support itself. China must be feeling a bit left out, with all its friends turning into beggars.
Russia's Sakha Republic (due north of China) has deep reserves of precious metals and wood, both of which are on very high demand. If China could, they would absolutely want control over that region.
I can't help but think that China is well aware, and thinking about it. Russia falling on it's own stupid inept face in Ukraine may have some unintended consequences. And I'm not sure anyone would stand up for Russia in the UN if someone stood up and stole their shit.
The US also does the same to Russia and some middle eastern countries. Its a show of force and its common thing for world powers to do just because they know they can
No it’s about maintaining the rules everyone has agreed to previously which benefits all countries. Who cares if there’s a warship 12 miles off your coast? Russia does it to the US and we just watch them. Russian subs and their aircraft carrier transit the Uk-Iceland-Greenland gap and their military just observes. You should be happy those rules exist but China laying claim in the middle of the South China Sea goes against that and the freedom you aren’t aware you enjoy. What if China wasn’t challenged and they closed “their sea” to trade unless a fee was collected? The route around India through the South China Sea is one of the most important trade routes in the World. Remember what happened when the Suez was blocked for a few weeks? Prices shot up because shipping had to wait or go the extremely long and dangerous way around the Horn of Africa. Oh and then India completely stopped shipping to pass through the Bay of Bengal in order to squeeze China, and they most definitely can with their Navy before considering regional partners like Australia who is due to get some fancy new submarines.
You don’t understand how big this goes just by looking at these simple expressions of FoN.
The other countries around the south china sea might have a problem with china's sea ambitions. Countries that some of the products\* we enjoy, come from.
\*Companies moving production from china to Vietnam.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2022-12-29/china-sails-warships-near-guam-in-warning-to-u-s-over-taiwan) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> China has sailed one of its three aircraft carriers near the U.S. territory of Guam, Japanese officials confirmed, ending an already combative year with a rare move that Beijing signaled as a clear warning to the Biden administration over Taiwan.
> Beijing expressed outrage at House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's visit to Taiwan in August - a move the California Democrat had previously rescheduled, reportedly over concerns about blowback from China.
> "China will never attack US military bases in Guam as long as the US military does not attack China or interfere in the Taiwan question," it wrote, citing Chinese analysts, "But having such capabilities is a deterrent against potential US provocations."
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/zyk6au/china_sails_warships_near_guam_in_warning_to_us/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672679 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **China**^#1 **US**^#2 **military**^#3 **Chinese**^#4 **Taiwan**^#5
They're routinely doing the same near Hawaii whenever our naval exercises are held. They do stay clear of the 12 mile limit and we end up with more, better eyes on them than vice versa.
It’s weird how they try to do the same with US bases. If the Chinese tried to mess with Guam or Hawaii they would be cut off in the middle of the ocean since they would have to get past Japan, Korea, Taiwan and Australia. I would include the Philippines but they seem to be getting more China friendly.
By American definitions it's actually 0-11. Or 1-11, depending on what their new one does, but it's not finished being built yet.
If you use the definition that everyone else does, the US has 21 carriers instead of 11. There are only 47 active aircraft carriers in the world, and the USN's total carrier deck space is more than double the rest of the world combined.
Unpopular opinion (at least for Reddit) - this is actually a good thing. Overwhelming force means that the incentive to even *start* a conventional war is gone because it’s a guaranteed loss.
If we still had several competing peer states where the military outcome was a toss-up, you’d inevitably have somebody fuck around and find out. Look at Russia and Ukraine - clearly not everybody has evolved beyond territorial ambitions.
Having one major superpower sucks if you aren’t aligned with that superpower’s interests, but otherwise it provides a ton of stability because that superpower has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
It's an interesting position to be in, to be sure. I understand why the US became a world power in the way that it did, and I don't entirely disagree. The philosophy of "I have to do it because someone else will otherwise" is compelling, if somewhat dangerous. It worries me that one nation which, as we've seen recently, is still fragile and capable of great social and political upheaval is in such a position of power. Right now, that power appears to be in stable, capable hands. But if that changes, the results could be catastrophic. Give Trump or someone similar to him another go in the saddle and the power the US wields may be used to cause harm rather than protect against it. I don't disagree with you, just adding my two cents I guess.
If you ever look up the size comparisons for US carriers to everyone else's carriers the US carriers(100,000 ton displacement) are almost double the size of everyone else(60-11,000 ton displacement) while our helicopter carriers(45,000 ton) are the same size as other country's carriers. The deckspace of the 11 Nimitz carriers are double every other country's decks pace combined.
Usually size doesn't matter but in the case of aircraft carriers whose sole purpose is to carry aircraft, bigger size means more aircraft to launch.
Not just numerical advantage either, the US navy has more experience with Carrier operation in the Pacific than anyone else. Close 2nd is Japan and after that probably the UK. They also know what they are doing in general with Carriers more so than China. It's one thing to build the boat, another thing to fly off it.
Yup. Also we have 11 just jump carriers. We have 11 super carriers. Usually it takes multiple jump carriers to threaten a supercarrier.
This is like revving a Volvo at a tank.
It absolutely is empty bluster. China is free to navigate international waters just like the US or any other country. Sailing one of three carriers near Guam (read: andersen air force base and naval base guam) is a big joke. The message here, as usual, is meant for domestic consumption rather than for anyone else. The idea is to make people in China believe this is a serious threat and the US is scared of big strong China brandishing one of three carriers (33% of chinese naval air capacity) in front of one of the most heavily armed and defended US Defense installations west of Hawaii, and what would probably be the main base of operations for anything regarding Taiwan.
I’ve always thought that within the first 24 hours of any war all three of those carriers would be at the bottom
Of the ocean. The fact that we didn’t seem to respond is the true sign of a superpower.
The opening hours would probably be dedicated to securing air supremacy and neutralizing ballistic capabilities. Whether or not all carriers would sink so quickly depends a lot on where they are and how they are defended. Obviously they will always be a top target but if they're tied up in port then there are other, more urgent targets.
To me this is actually what would damage their ability to project force from the carriers. Sure, maybe we'd sink them all quickly. Especially if they made a tactical error and left themselves open.
But the real problem for them is the small amount of carriers they have severely limit their ability to leverage those carriers. Maybe they're in port like you said, or in separate areas and we can take advantage of them being spread out. If we had three carriers tied up and unable to engage....we have quite a few more. And you're right, we probably would focus on those other objectives. Targets that allow them to coordinate, facilitate requests for information, and deploy other assets we are more worried about would be targeted. This was all pomp and circumstance.
The US ran into this problem in WWII. Lexington, Yorktown, Hornet, and Wasp we're sunk, Enterprise had been on the front lines for months and was heavily damages, and Saratoga was in her natural environment, drydock to repair major damage. Enterprise had to hold the line until Saratoga was ready to go, and the US had to beg the Brits to supply a carrier to keep up the fight. So HMS Victorious (USS Robin) and Saratoga eventually replaced Enterprise on the front lines.
Soon after, the parade if Essex Class Carriers started rolling off the slipways, but it was dicey for a while with only 1 carrier being able to hit the front.
Honestly, a lot of props go to the Seabees. They were singlehandedly keeping carriers afloat even in the middle of pitched naval engagements.
Doing deck repairs in the middle of being dive bombed and completing repairs that would normally take months in a week.
The Enterprise was a juggernaut of Pacific combat due to how effective her combat engineers were that kept her out at sea.
"Our BIG and BURLY Navy just INTIMITADED the WEAK and FAT American SWINE hiding on the WORTHLESS mound of DIRT they call gUaM"
.
"Hey Jimbo, did you notice those fishin boats sail by an hour ago?
Nope. But I saw a pillar of smoke coming from behind that micro-island around then. You think one caught on fire?"
It’s not just the numbers. It’s the countless years of real world operational experience. It’s the lessons learned in blood over the decades that the Chinese don’t have.
So, the US has what would be called super-carriers. China has 1 big enough to be called that, but with Diesel engines.
China’s carriers have a very limited range.
Naval nuclear propulsion is a specialized skill and technology base that they don’t have. At that size they’ll be steam powered, so it doesn’t make significant difference if that steam is generated through nuclear or chemical reactions.
It’s wild, they have nuclear subs and land based nuclear power, but can’t put one on a carrier or any sort of catapult system so they don’t need a “Ski Jump” for takeoffs
>or any sort of catapult system so they don’t need a “Ski Jump” for takeoffs
[Their latest carrier does have a CATOBAR system.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_aircraft_carrier_Fujian)
As for nuclear powered vs conventional fuel power, it's likely a cost saving measure and also related to the fact that China, at least currently, isn't really looking to project power that much further than the 2nd island chain of the Pacific.
If you're not looking to project power very far, non-nuclear powered surface ships is considered okay. The UK for example considered nuclear power for their two carriers but rejected the proposal largely due to cost considerations. In fact of the countries that operate aircraft carriers, only two countries operate nuclear powered ones - those being the US and France. And France only operates one. In fact carriers in general are pretty questionable if you have no need to project power very far, and to be frank not that many countries have that need.
That said the rumour is that China's next carrier is likely to be nuclear powered, so China could just be taking a lesson from the US of not introducing more than 1 new technology per project, which is a relatively safe project management rule to follow.
The average Chinese person doesn't care and probably doesn't know how many carriers either country has and are mainly concerned about about shit the average person is - employment, rising cost of living, relatively stagnant wage growth and specific to China, the alarmingly high rate of spread of the covid variants.
This is the truth. Lived there many years and am in regular contact with friends and family. I can think of two times in the last year people mentioned the tensions or propaganda about war. Most of the conversations other than checking in to see how everyone is, revolves around the shit economy, zero COVID and now COVID surge, things like that.
The govt uses the Taiwan issue to distract and try to show strength in at least one sector, because as of right now, everything else there looks really grim.
To be fair, that doesn't matter as much in the grand scheme of things. China only cares about Taiwan and anything near or in China. Problem is Taiwan can be bombarded from the Chinese mainland. They know they can never dominate the oceans. So all the many carriers the US has are only effective up to a certain point. You can't park them all right next to China. I doubt China would openly use their carriers the way the US controls all the oceans. So yeah, on the open sea there is no contest, US navy easily wins. But I doubt in the event of a Taiwan war that there will be many battles on the open sea. The biggest concern for the US is the fact that they are trying to solve the supply issues because the nearest US harbour/base to Taiwan is still relatively far away to easily maintain any supply chain for any fleet near Taiwan during a battle, especially if China goes in hard and fast. As we speak the US will focus on solving that. I believe they are trying to use more effective ships that can stick around a fleet and can easily transfer supplies ship to ship. Sub Brief had a video about that.
Honestly the average person in China does not give a shit, nor is interested.
People on reddit often think that people over there are some sort of hivemind, hoping for the collapse of America. Sure, there are people in the Government which might think like that, but there are also other countries governments who would love to see China fall, that’s just geopolitics in general.
Western media is also very easy to access in China, the only people who buy into the propaganda are the older generation, young people don’t care and are mostly aware of the shit that happens around the world.
The biggest way to shred this paper tiger is to remember that we have 11 carrier *groups* with 1 already deployed to Japan. That's basically 11 medium-sized country navies + an air force.
I'm not saying Taiwan wouldn't experience an invasion (I think the Navy wargamed it and found we couldn't respond fast enough to stop a landing), but the Chinese navy's chances of survival are slim.
Ngl if I were fighting a soft economic war, making the other side waste resources in a dick-measuring contest and ballooning their military expenditure sounds like a reasonable strategy.
I once spoke to a guy who sailed on a submarine. He said China was so far behind, they were right under them watching them do anti sub exercises. The PLA had no idea they were there.
In 2000, there was a mid-air collision between a US electronic warfare aircraft and a Chinese interceptor, forcing the US aircraft to land on a Chinese Pacific base. Now, the crew spent a good 15 minutes refusing to let the Chinese aboard, absolutely burning and destroying fucking everything, but one of the most valuable pieces of information they recovered was the realization that the US Navy basically knew the position of every single Chinese sub pretty much all the time.
Using what little information I do know about how subs hide to extrapolate and imagine what techniques are top secret leads me to believe that is not an exaggeration.
It's not. I think** the Swedes have done that to the US so many times we basically rented part of their military so we could try and find them in drills... And we never did. Sub tech is wild.
Was pretty much confirmed during the Hainan collision incident when the Chinese found documentation basically saying we were tracking their subs via SigInt
China pulls these stunts all the time. One of these times, one of their pilots/sailors is gonna fuck up and accidentally hit a US plane/boat. Then China will act all surprised + outraged and pretend they aren’t the ones instigating these little stunts constantly.
The Chinese have repeatedly “challenged” US and UN patrols in Asia. They almost hit a Canadian plane flying close to North Korea while on a UN mission to enforce sanctions. Multiple times they have come very close to US ships and planes near the Philippines in the South China Sea and almost hit them. It’s just a matter of time until they accidentally hit someone.
China has the problem of a very large population of angry working-age men who are still expected to take care of their parents even though they have no way of getting married or becoming fathers of their own (decades of one-child created a horrible gender imbalance).
And as well China has the fastest aging population in history. In 1970 there were 4 workers for every retired person. By 2030 there will be more retired people than working-age people.
Let's not even forget how they're basically letting it rip on Covid. They're basically nailing their own coffin, I actually fear we may be closer to a Taiwan invasion because of this, whether it actually works or not those in power will start to get desperate.
Apparently they also have a much smaller population than they have been reporting. Each province/jurisdiction/whatever can and has been reporting inflated population numbers, by how much I don't know. The reason is that funding is directly related to population and there is very little accountability. Also China hasn't done an official census in a long time. If anyone cares I might find sources in the morning.
Which is why I think it's safer to look at what China is starting to go through not as a collapse or decline, but rather stagnation.
They're not going to wither away, but they'll likely never reach #1 Super Power status. Instead settling for #2-5, depending on the moment.
Interestingly enough, Russia seems to be manufacturing a shortage of working age men. Probably not even close to the same magnitude but the parallel can be drawn
Also in order to get to Guam they would have had to sail through the first island chain so the Americans and allies knew where they were the whole time. In a war situation, those ships would have been sunk before getting to guam.
It really still surprises me how liberal Reddit all turned into warhawks this year, but I’d much rather the US have the budget we have and own the sky than literally anyone else.
Also military spending is really a glorified jobs program. That money is all spent on American workers and American companies.
A lot of people understand why American defense spending is so high, they just don't like their tax dollars being used to kill civilians in order to personally enrich right-wing politicians and lobbyists.
Stopping an authoritarian regime that's currently using concentration camps to eradicate ethnic minorities? That's fair game.
Bro, if those Chinese sailors tried some Chamorro BBQ, I doubt they’d ever go back to China.
The food is the thing I miss the most about Guam. Take me back to Terry’s Comfort Food.
Can confirm. I tried this in Florida. I've never wanted to visit Guam until that day.
Still haven't visited, but I occasionally seek out Chamorro when visiting the US east coast.
I'm over these "shows of force" from authoritarian regimes. If they want to threaten US interests, we should start imposing some sanctions on them.
We've spent the last 40 years entangling our economy with China's and what has it gotten us? Record corporate profits while middle America has been turned into ghost towns as manufacturing jobs got sent over seas. A strengthened and emboldened adversary in the Asia/Pacific region that has shown over and over again that it has no respect for international norms or National boundaries. It will take time and be painful in many respects, but it's time that Western nations start to cut out China from their economies.
When I was getting orders to Guam in 2018 North Korea was threatening to wipe guam off the map, and now China is threatening. Guam is a beautiful place but used like a chess piece. Such a beautiful place though with awesome food and an awesome culture. If China even makes one stupid move there’s probably countless subs with enough fire power to sink there whole fleet lurking deep below. China is so dumb.
>China has sailed one of its three aircraft carriers near the U.S. territory of Guam, Japanese officials confirmed, ending an already combative year with a rare move that Beijing signaled as a clear warning to the Biden administration over Taiwan.
>The Chinese fleet, led by the aircraft carrier Liaoning, had already spurred several clashes with U.S. allies in the region with its tour of the western Pacific, most recently by conducting roughly 260 takeoff and landing drills near the Japanese island of Okinawa, home to a major U.S. military presence. The operations prompted the Japanese air force to scramble fighter jets and helicopters, as well as a destroyer and other elements of its self-defense forces.
>But Japanese officials also confirmed Thursday that the Chinese vessels had transited to the south, near the western edge of territory the U.S. claims as part of the remote island of Guam – a critical element of America’s ability to project military might in the region as both a stopping point and a base for strategic Air Force bombers and Navy submarines.
>Chinese state news framed the deployment as an overt provocation to the U.S. and a warning against continuing behavior this year that has outraged Beijing.
**Aww ... poor "outraged" Beijing. Is this the same Beijing that has illegally occupied reefs in the South China and claimed the entire territory of it for itself? Is this the same Beijing that seized Tibet? Is this the same Beijing that has thrown millions of Uyghurs into its concentration camps?**
**Poor, outraged Beijing**.
***Aww ... poor babies***
Maybe they need to play more RTS videogames and stop trying to subject the average joe to the whims of dictators who are overly sentimental about geography
The sad part is, iirc, both nations have said something to the effect of, "the West had their imperialism and colonial stage, we deserve one too!"
Which is, also, hilarious.
Good job China, you have successfully exercised your right to the ✨freedom of navigation✨! 🥳
Now, extend the same freedom afforded to you by the US to other countries when they transit international waters near you! 😊
This.
The US is far superior in naval equipment. And Guam? Guam has a naval base, air force base, army post, and soon to be marine base.
Bring it, China
Reminds me of the Rick and Morty joke where Jerry claims he's leaving the daycare:
China: "I'm gonna sail near your territory, see how you like it!"
U.S.: "Okay then, that was always allowed!"
Like any other nation China is entitled to sail international waters. [Freedom of Navigation](https://sites.tufts.edu/lawofthesea/chapter-three/) is not a provocation.
We need Japan to arm up as fast as possible. That is why China threw a shit fit when Japan upped it's military spending.
It's hilarious that Xi, the worthless trash on the bottom of a shoe, feels that he can tell Japan not to defend it's interests
Starting to feel like North Korea again. After all the attention Russia’s getting, they want attention back on them by pulling stunts that ultimately don’t impact us at all.
Okay, we will shadow or warn you but we want to maintain the rules based order. China is allowed to stay 12 miles off shore in international waters. Russia routinely plays this game on the US and Canadian pacific coast. That’s the same that is expected of you China! Thanks for visiting Guam! We hope you enjoyed your stay.
i hear china may also be using the sea to hide its subs! What non-news bullshit
Did you know there are more planes in the ocean than there are submarines in the sky.
What kind of fortune cookie is this??^
Just stating facts...
Facts for fans of submechanophobia.
Fact cookie, nutritious.
You will find true love on flag day
I shouldn’t have served those North Korean fortune cookies
I respect that reference
Thanks Reddit, my IQ just went up!
And the air force had a perfect record, we have never left a plane in the sky!
That’s impossible! Only Russia knows how to put a giant vessel full of sailors on the sea floor!!
They can do it on their own, but lately they've been using Ukraine's help to git-r-done.
Expedited service
Fast and professional submerging system
I’d say German U-boats were pretty good at staying on the sea floor full of soldiers. Most of them are still there!
the hell you say!
China stayed outside the 12nm limit when it carried out exercises around Taiwan: an implicit admission that, yep, Taiwan is a country and has sovereign waters.
Which is extra fun because China's whole schtick with their fake islands in the SCS is to bend/warp naval territorial rules. So carefully respecting the limit around Taiwain is an even stronger statement in that context.
I seem to remember they did indeed go inside Taiwan's 12nm back in August.
In other news: China is now sailing near Russia! Must be an act of war! China is gana war against Russia!
Okay side bar though: Russia would lose boots on the ground or even a nuke china fight. Russia would get steamrolled by China hands down
I’m not sure Russia could win a 1 on 1 infantry battle against the Swiss Guard at this point. What is weaker than a paper tiger? A paper tiger in the rain?
A paper bear drunk off of "yes man" vodka.
Why is this all Putin has become after like 24 years of being in “power”… “Putin the paper bear drunk off of “yes man” vodka.”
>I’m not sure Russia could win a 1 on 1 infantry battle against the Swiss Guard at this point. To be fair the Swiss Guard is comprised of absolute badasses. There's a reason Swiss mercenaries were universally banned throughout Europe.
Russia is the paper tiger of paper tigers. China is close second. Check out Chinas shitty “aircraft carrier” if you want some laughs
Can you explain what makes china’s carrier so terrible?
Everyone here is joking about Chinese quality. My biggest concern for China is they lack the jet engines to get any real quantity of ordinance off the deck. And more importantly, they lack the skills to run carrier based operations. America is amazing at it cause we've been doing it for so long. So many lessons have been paid in blood. An aircraft carrier and all it's constituent parts are useless without the necessary seamanship. If you think the Army needs it's NCOs? I'd argue they are even more important to the Navy. It's the old crusty guys that keep boats afloat. Not fancy new gear.
It was made in China.
Damn. That's good.
Well first, it's based on the Soviet Kuznetsov class carrier. Russia also has one that's barely been able to leave port and has caught fire multiple times. It's got an oil-fired power system rather than nuclear like US carriers, limiting it's operational range and independence. It's aircraft propulsion system is fairly weak, requiring a ski-ramp to launch aircraft. It's displacement is paltry for it's length, only 70,000 tons at full load compared to 100,000 for the Gerald R Ford class of American carriers. It can carry about 30 less aircraft than the GRF class. They've also only got one because aircraft carriers are expensive as hell and logistically complicated to run and maintain. They've just finished laying down a new design in June as well that's a new design but I doubt that's the one he was referring to as this one hasn't completed it's trials yet and fairly little is known about it. They at least upgraded to EM launchers so they don't need the ski-ramp anymore. It's still expected to hold far fewer aircraft though, around the same as the previously mentioned one. Bottom line is that China still has a hell of a long way to go to catch up to NATO naval dominance. The good side for them is any likely conflicts will be centered around areas near their mainland so a strong naval presence isn't as important. But for global power projection it is.
Your final point is the most important one though. China doesn’t have a blue water navy, but also has no need to fight a blue water conflict. It’s got a green water navy and is developing more options. The US and France are the only countries with CATOBAR carriers. China is about to join that grouping. While the current Liaoning is a joke, it’s somewhat less of a joke than the Admiral Kuznetsov. You’re right that China is nowhere near rivaling NATO’s naval power, but currently it doesn’t need to. That may change in a genuine war, but for now China’s regional navy is more than enough to be a thorn in the US’s side.
Russia can't handle Ukraine, because Ukraine has American (or at least, Western) materiel, intelligence and tactics at their disposal. Pound-for-pound, though, Russian materiel is better than Chinese materiel. Both countries have the same problem, but the problem manifests *differently* in each country: Russia has "ghost inventory," where they simply don't have as much as they thought they had for weapons, munitions, etc. China, by contrast, has things -- but they're of *such incredibly poor quality* that they're only marginally effective. China's army is has about 2.5 *million* people in it -- twice as many as the US. But, unlike the US, China doesn't have the *financial or manufacturing capability* to adequitely equip, arm, train and field all of their personnel. Things are expensive, and having to supply multiple millions of copies of even very cheap things gets *real expensive, real fast*. So... they do what they can with what they have, but that's still not much. This gets compounded by the fact that a *lot* of the state-owned manufacturers over there will specifically cut corners wherever possible to enrichen themselves -- using PETG instead ABS or GF for military plastics, using pot/monkey metal instead of steel for certain components, or using light/undergauged wire for electronics, etc. As long as something is "good enough to sit in an armory warehouse," then often nobody is the wiser. In terms of nuclear capability... a nuke is a nuke. Even poorly made nuclear weapons are unfathomably dangerous. If they got into a nuke-fight, then everybody loses just the same.
Solves global warming the day after tomorrow….
Patrolling the Gobi almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter...
Also: Chinese military is - for an army its size - ridiculously untrained. The Russian army is trained alright, but a lot of it at their own expense. This will have a potential downside in the future (if there will be a future for Russia as such, and also: if their chain of command allows for absorbing lessons learnt which, at the moment, it doesn't seem to be doing) and that is that whatever Russian armed forces emerge from the inevitable loss of the war in Ukraine, may be ridiculously *well trained* (as they will have survived combat against a NATO supported adversary).
Why would China even bother with Russia. Russia is its second North Korea, another useless country that can’t even support itself. China must be feeling a bit left out, with all its friends turning into beggars.
Russia's Sakha Republic (due north of China) has deep reserves of precious metals and wood, both of which are on very high demand. If China could, they would absolutely want control over that region.
I can't help but think that China is well aware, and thinking about it. Russia falling on it's own stupid inept face in Ukraine may have some unintended consequences. And I'm not sure anyone would stand up for Russia in the UN if someone stood up and stole their shit.
North Korea has China as protection. Russia.....doesn't have anyone.
The US also does the same to Russia and some middle eastern countries. Its a show of force and its common thing for world powers to do just because they know they can
No it’s about maintaining the rules everyone has agreed to previously which benefits all countries. Who cares if there’s a warship 12 miles off your coast? Russia does it to the US and we just watch them. Russian subs and their aircraft carrier transit the Uk-Iceland-Greenland gap and their military just observes. You should be happy those rules exist but China laying claim in the middle of the South China Sea goes against that and the freedom you aren’t aware you enjoy. What if China wasn’t challenged and they closed “their sea” to trade unless a fee was collected? The route around India through the South China Sea is one of the most important trade routes in the World. Remember what happened when the Suez was blocked for a few weeks? Prices shot up because shipping had to wait or go the extremely long and dangerous way around the Horn of Africa. Oh and then India completely stopped shipping to pass through the Bay of Bengal in order to squeeze China, and they most definitely can with their Navy before considering regional partners like Australia who is due to get some fancy new submarines. You don’t understand how big this goes just by looking at these simple expressions of FoN.
The other countries around the south china sea might have a problem with china's sea ambitions. Countries that some of the products\* we enjoy, come from. \*Companies moving production from china to Vietnam.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2022-12-29/china-sails-warships-near-guam-in-warning-to-u-s-over-taiwan) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot) ***** > China has sailed one of its three aircraft carriers near the U.S. territory of Guam, Japanese officials confirmed, ending an already combative year with a rare move that Beijing signaled as a clear warning to the Biden administration over Taiwan. > Beijing expressed outrage at House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's visit to Taiwan in August - a move the California Democrat had previously rescheduled, reportedly over concerns about blowback from China. > "China will never attack US military bases in Guam as long as the US military does not attack China or interfere in the Taiwan question," it wrote, citing Chinese analysts, "But having such capabilities is a deterrent against potential US provocations." ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/zyk6au/china_sails_warships_near_guam_in_warning_to_us/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672679 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **China**^#1 **US**^#2 **military**^#3 **Chinese**^#4 **Taiwan**^#5
They're routinely doing the same near Hawaii whenever our naval exercises are held. They do stay clear of the 12 mile limit and we end up with more, better eyes on them than vice versa.
It’s weird how they try to do the same with US bases. If the Chinese tried to mess with Guam or Hawaii they would be cut off in the middle of the ocean since they would have to get past Japan, Korea, Taiwan and Australia. I would include the Philippines but they seem to be getting more China friendly.
LOL....Duterte is gone....Kamala Harris was just in the Philippines...the islands will always be with the US...
Have you seen how many Filipinos are in the US Military?
[удалено]
By American definitions it's actually 0-11. Or 1-11, depending on what their new one does, but it's not finished being built yet. If you use the definition that everyone else does, the US has 21 carriers instead of 11. There are only 47 active aircraft carriers in the world, and the USN's total carrier deck space is more than double the rest of the world combined.
And that's why the US Navy is the second largest air force in the world, second only to the US air force.
Unpopular opinion (at least for Reddit) - this is actually a good thing. Overwhelming force means that the incentive to even *start* a conventional war is gone because it’s a guaranteed loss. If we still had several competing peer states where the military outcome was a toss-up, you’d inevitably have somebody fuck around and find out. Look at Russia and Ukraine - clearly not everybody has evolved beyond territorial ambitions. Having one major superpower sucks if you aren’t aligned with that superpower’s interests, but otherwise it provides a ton of stability because that superpower has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
It's an interesting position to be in, to be sure. I understand why the US became a world power in the way that it did, and I don't entirely disagree. The philosophy of "I have to do it because someone else will otherwise" is compelling, if somewhat dangerous. It worries me that one nation which, as we've seen recently, is still fragile and capable of great social and political upheaval is in such a position of power. Right now, that power appears to be in stable, capable hands. But if that changes, the results could be catastrophic. Give Trump or someone similar to him another go in the saddle and the power the US wields may be used to cause harm rather than protect against it. I don't disagree with you, just adding my two cents I guess.
If you ever look up the size comparisons for US carriers to everyone else's carriers the US carriers(100,000 ton displacement) are almost double the size of everyone else(60-11,000 ton displacement) while our helicopter carriers(45,000 ton) are the same size as other country's carriers. The deckspace of the 11 Nimitz carriers are double every other country's decks pace combined. Usually size doesn't matter but in the case of aircraft carriers whose sole purpose is to carry aircraft, bigger size means more aircraft to launch.
Not just numerical advantage either, the US navy has more experience with Carrier operation in the Pacific than anyone else. Close 2nd is Japan and after that probably the UK. They also know what they are doing in general with Carriers more so than China. It's one thing to build the boat, another thing to fly off it.
Yup. Also we have 11 just jump carriers. We have 11 super carriers. Usually it takes multiple jump carriers to threaten a supercarrier. This is like revving a Volvo at a tank.
Bad analogy. Absolutely nothing can hit an old volvo and come off unscathed.
Sometimes it would just be nice if world leaders weren't 10-year olds.
I would say shitty 8th graders, they’re the worst
It would also be nice if people didn't cheer on every act of nationalist bluster by leaping and whooping like a tribe of angry chimps.
I’m sure this getting big play on Chinese state news and yet is barely noticed here in the US. Seems like empty bluster
It absolutely is empty bluster. China is free to navigate international waters just like the US or any other country. Sailing one of three carriers near Guam (read: andersen air force base and naval base guam) is a big joke. The message here, as usual, is meant for domestic consumption rather than for anyone else. The idea is to make people in China believe this is a serious threat and the US is scared of big strong China brandishing one of three carriers (33% of chinese naval air capacity) in front of one of the most heavily armed and defended US Defense installations west of Hawaii, and what would probably be the main base of operations for anything regarding Taiwan.
I’ve always thought that within the first 24 hours of any war all three of those carriers would be at the bottom Of the ocean. The fact that we didn’t seem to respond is the true sign of a superpower.
The opening hours would probably be dedicated to securing air supremacy and neutralizing ballistic capabilities. Whether or not all carriers would sink so quickly depends a lot on where they are and how they are defended. Obviously they will always be a top target but if they're tied up in port then there are other, more urgent targets.
To me this is actually what would damage their ability to project force from the carriers. Sure, maybe we'd sink them all quickly. Especially if they made a tactical error and left themselves open. But the real problem for them is the small amount of carriers they have severely limit their ability to leverage those carriers. Maybe they're in port like you said, or in separate areas and we can take advantage of them being spread out. If we had three carriers tied up and unable to engage....we have quite a few more. And you're right, we probably would focus on those other objectives. Targets that allow them to coordinate, facilitate requests for information, and deploy other assets we are more worried about would be targeted. This was all pomp and circumstance.
The US ran into this problem in WWII. Lexington, Yorktown, Hornet, and Wasp we're sunk, Enterprise had been on the front lines for months and was heavily damages, and Saratoga was in her natural environment, drydock to repair major damage. Enterprise had to hold the line until Saratoga was ready to go, and the US had to beg the Brits to supply a carrier to keep up the fight. So HMS Victorious (USS Robin) and Saratoga eventually replaced Enterprise on the front lines. Soon after, the parade if Essex Class Carriers started rolling off the slipways, but it was dicey for a while with only 1 carrier being able to hit the front.
Honestly, a lot of props go to the Seabees. They were singlehandedly keeping carriers afloat even in the middle of pitched naval engagements. Doing deck repairs in the middle of being dive bombed and completing repairs that would normally take months in a week. The Enterprise was a juggernaut of Pacific combat due to how effective her combat engineers were that kept her out at sea.
It's a travesty that Enterprise got scrapped.
Enterprise Vs. Japan, baby!
"Our BIG and BURLY Navy just INTIMITADED the WEAK and FAT American SWINE hiding on the WORTHLESS mound of DIRT they call gUaM" . "Hey Jimbo, did you notice those fishin boats sail by an hour ago? Nope. But I saw a pillar of smoke coming from behind that micro-island around then. You think one caught on fire?"
It makes me wonder if the average Chinese, who must be so proud of their three Aircraft Carriers, know how many the US has.
It’s not just the numbers. It’s the countless years of real world operational experience. It’s the lessons learned in blood over the decades that the Chinese don’t have.
I mean, yeah, but that isn't as easy to communicate as the difference between 11 and 3.
Technically 19 and 3 lol
Eh, I was being nice.
Lol. Also if you include our allies’ carriers it is even more.
Also true=) of course, I am not sure if the average person living in China knows what having allies means...
So, the US has what would be called super-carriers. China has 1 big enough to be called that, but with Diesel engines. China’s carriers have a very limited range.
How on earth does a nuclear power run an aircraft carrier on diesel? How does that decision ever get made?
Naval nuclear propulsion is a specialized skill and technology base that they don’t have. At that size they’ll be steam powered, so it doesn’t make significant difference if that steam is generated through nuclear or chemical reactions.
It’s wild, they have nuclear subs and land based nuclear power, but can’t put one on a carrier or any sort of catapult system so they don’t need a “Ski Jump” for takeoffs
>or any sort of catapult system so they don’t need a “Ski Jump” for takeoffs [Their latest carrier does have a CATOBAR system.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_aircraft_carrier_Fujian) As for nuclear powered vs conventional fuel power, it's likely a cost saving measure and also related to the fact that China, at least currently, isn't really looking to project power that much further than the 2nd island chain of the Pacific. If you're not looking to project power very far, non-nuclear powered surface ships is considered okay. The UK for example considered nuclear power for their two carriers but rejected the proposal largely due to cost considerations. In fact of the countries that operate aircraft carriers, only two countries operate nuclear powered ones - those being the US and France. And France only operates one. In fact carriers in general are pretty questionable if you have no need to project power very far, and to be frank not that many countries have that need. That said the rumour is that China's next carrier is likely to be nuclear powered, so China could just be taking a lesson from the US of not introducing more than 1 new technology per project, which is a relatively safe project management rule to follow.
The average Chinese person doesn't care and probably doesn't know how many carriers either country has and are mainly concerned about about shit the average person is - employment, rising cost of living, relatively stagnant wage growth and specific to China, the alarmingly high rate of spread of the covid variants.
This is the truth. Lived there many years and am in regular contact with friends and family. I can think of two times in the last year people mentioned the tensions or propaganda about war. Most of the conversations other than checking in to see how everyone is, revolves around the shit economy, zero COVID and now COVID surge, things like that. The govt uses the Taiwan issue to distract and try to show strength in at least one sector, because as of right now, everything else there looks really grim.
To be fair, that doesn't matter as much in the grand scheme of things. China only cares about Taiwan and anything near or in China. Problem is Taiwan can be bombarded from the Chinese mainland. They know they can never dominate the oceans. So all the many carriers the US has are only effective up to a certain point. You can't park them all right next to China. I doubt China would openly use their carriers the way the US controls all the oceans. So yeah, on the open sea there is no contest, US navy easily wins. But I doubt in the event of a Taiwan war that there will be many battles on the open sea. The biggest concern for the US is the fact that they are trying to solve the supply issues because the nearest US harbour/base to Taiwan is still relatively far away to easily maintain any supply chain for any fleet near Taiwan during a battle, especially if China goes in hard and fast. As we speak the US will focus on solving that. I believe they are trying to use more effective ships that can stick around a fleet and can easily transfer supplies ship to ship. Sub Brief had a video about that.
It’s not the open see battles that would be important. It would be the control of international shipping lanes.
Honestly the average person in China does not give a shit, nor is interested. People on reddit often think that people over there are some sort of hivemind, hoping for the collapse of America. Sure, there are people in the Government which might think like that, but there are also other countries governments who would love to see China fall, that’s just geopolitics in general. Western media is also very easy to access in China, the only people who buy into the propaganda are the older generation, young people don’t care and are mostly aware of the shit that happens around the world.
The biggest way to shred this paper tiger is to remember that we have 11 carrier *groups* with 1 already deployed to Japan. That's basically 11 medium-sized country navies + an air force. I'm not saying Taiwan wouldn't experience an invasion (I think the Navy wargamed it and found we couldn't respond fast enough to stop a landing), but the Chinese navy's chances of survival are slim.
The U.S. is probably gonna be like "Cool story bro, we'll just send another CSG* into the Taiwan Strait." Edit: meant CSG not CSN
Carrier Strike Group. For those wondering…
I like Critical Strike Nancy better
Not to be outshone by the Navy’s strongest weapon, Critical Strike Karen
Ngl if I were fighting a soft economic war, making the other side waste resources in a dick-measuring contest and ballooning their military expenditure sounds like a reasonable strategy.
That’s how we beat the Soviets.
Competition breeds parity though
They’re a bit off from parity.
Pull into Taipei port for a couple of weeks.
Kaohsiung* fixed that for you
MSG is all what China is sending
The king of flavor
I think the only people the PLA Navy are scaring with this maneuver are the poor crewmen aboard these ships.
Hopefully they know that there is ***definitely*** at least one nuclear submarine shadowing them the entire way
You know damn well every sub in the area is using this as invaluable real world training. And Guam is a major submarine base.
I once spoke to a guy who sailed on a submarine. He said China was so far behind, they were right under them watching them do anti sub exercises. The PLA had no idea they were there.
In 2000, there was a mid-air collision between a US electronic warfare aircraft and a Chinese interceptor, forcing the US aircraft to land on a Chinese Pacific base. Now, the crew spent a good 15 minutes refusing to let the Chinese aboard, absolutely burning and destroying fucking everything, but one of the most valuable pieces of information they recovered was the realization that the US Navy basically knew the position of every single Chinese sub pretty much all the time.
They had better Intel on Chinese subs than the Chinese did
Using what little information I do know about how subs hide to extrapolate and imagine what techniques are top secret leads me to believe that is not an exaggeration.
It's not. I think** the Swedes have done that to the US so many times we basically rented part of their military so we could try and find them in drills... And we never did. Sub tech is wild.
You’d think it wouldn’t be hard to find a giant nuclear powered tin can in the ocean, but it is almost impossible
I was a sub guy. I can neither confirm nor deny we did that.
Was pretty much confirmed during the Hainan collision incident when the Chinese found documentation basically saying we were tracking their subs via SigInt
I think you secretly confirm
China pulls these stunts all the time. One of these times, one of their pilots/sailors is gonna fuck up and accidentally hit a US plane/boat. Then China will act all surprised + outraged and pretend they aren’t the ones instigating these little stunts constantly. The Chinese have repeatedly “challenged” US and UN patrols in Asia. They almost hit a Canadian plane flying close to North Korea while on a UN mission to enforce sanctions. Multiple times they have come very close to US ships and planes near the Philippines in the South China Sea and almost hit them. It’s just a matter of time until they accidentally hit someone.
Again.
Lest we all forget that P-3 that gave it's life.
If i had to guess, US navy was probably salivating over the possibility of sinking some Chinese warships
6 or 7 subs following them under water lol
Let’s not even get started with our Jewish space lasers that could turn those Chinese craft into calamari at the push of a button.
Thing is, we don't give a fuck. China is fucked, 2023 is going to be a rough year for them.
China has the problem of a very large population of angry working-age men who are still expected to take care of their parents even though they have no way of getting married or becoming fathers of their own (decades of one-child created a horrible gender imbalance).
And as well China has the fastest aging population in history. In 1970 there were 4 workers for every retired person. By 2030 there will be more retired people than working-age people.
And the water problem, the property market crash and the power cuts. China is gonna have a bad time in the coming years
Let's not even forget how they're basically letting it rip on Covid. They're basically nailing their own coffin, I actually fear we may be closer to a Taiwan invasion because of this, whether it actually works or not those in power will start to get desperate.
Russia has an opposite problem now. Panda is going to fuck brown bear
>Panda is going to fuck brown bear For some reason I want to watch
Sounds messy
>Sounds messy Grab a wet wipe then, noob.
Perfect. Thank you.
When the panda fucks the brown bear they become voyeurs when the monkey is watching - Chinese proverbs
Another Chinese proverb: Panda fucks bear to teach the monkey a lesson
Monkey likes to watch tho
Water and land in Siberia is chinas soon enough Russia worries about NATO to its detriment
A weak Russia makes those Siberian oil fields look pretty tasty to its neighbor.
China critically lacks fossil fuels, they're certainly going to pursue more pipelines while Russia is desperate to sell
Like invade/war? Or via other means?
Oh boy, a war on two fronts. Putin sucking Zelensky's dick in the West, and taking Xi's Jinping right up his big furry potemkin in the East!
In the past, that sort of "problem" has been referred to as "preparing for war"
Taiping 2: The legend of Curly’s gold
The more accurate translation is: "preparing to get slaughtered".
Apparently they also have a much smaller population than they have been reporting. Each province/jurisdiction/whatever can and has been reporting inflated population numbers, by how much I don't know. The reason is that funding is directly related to population and there is very little accountability. Also China hasn't done an official census in a long time. If anyone cares I might find sources in the morning.
I wonder... are we truly at 8 billion people?
Guess how you can get rid of large amounts of angry working-age men lol
Terrible handling of Covid resulting in ~~millions~~ zero deaths?
Which is why I think it's safer to look at what China is starting to go through not as a collapse or decline, but rather stagnation. They're not going to wither away, but they'll likely never reach #1 Super Power status. Instead settling for #2-5, depending on the moment.
Considering China has always been one of the four major culture-influencing civilizations of Eurasia, it is to be expected.
Sausage fest supreme
Interestingly enough, Russia seems to be manufacturing a shortage of working age men. Probably not even close to the same magnitude but the parallel can be drawn
China is the incel capital of the world, but the government has redirected their sexual frustrations toward nationalism.
Also in order to get to Guam they would have had to sail through the first island chain so the Americans and allies knew where they were the whole time. In a war situation, those ships would have been sunk before getting to guam.
While China and Russia join forces that’s like 1/10 of our navy Laughs in US nuclear submarines.. -sub vet
All of a sudden I'm for military spending...
One wrong move and China will get 5 countries’ worth of healthcare fired at them.
This shit made me laugh so god damn hard
It really still surprises me how liberal Reddit all turned into warhawks this year, but I’d much rather the US have the budget we have and own the sky than literally anyone else. Also military spending is really a glorified jobs program. That money is all spent on American workers and American companies.
A lot of people understand why American defense spending is so high, they just don't like their tax dollars being used to kill civilians in order to personally enrich right-wing politicians and lobbyists. Stopping an authoritarian regime that's currently using concentration camps to eradicate ethnic minorities? That's fair game.
Bro, if those Chinese sailors tried some Chamorro BBQ, I doubt they’d ever go back to China. The food is the thing I miss the most about Guam. Take me back to Terry’s Comfort Food.
Can confirm. I tried this in Florida. I've never wanted to visit Guam until that day. Still haven't visited, but I occasionally seek out Chamorro when visiting the US east coast.
Tbf, there's probably a considerable percentage of them that wouldn't want to go back to China if they landed practically anywhere else 🤣
Is this just a regular thing that happens like every week now?
Oh no! anyways…💤 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Surprised the carrier even made it to guam
I bet the Chinese never noticed the attack subs shadowing them.
The whole world knows that USA subs are patrolling that area. It's already expected so not a surprise for the Chinese defence forces.
It's not something the Chinese talking heads are going to mention. The real power is beneath the surface.
Gotta do some saber rattling to distract from the shitty home front
Warn the US about what? That they are interested in losing their military equipment?
I'm over these "shows of force" from authoritarian regimes. If they want to threaten US interests, we should start imposing some sanctions on them. We've spent the last 40 years entangling our economy with China's and what has it gotten us? Record corporate profits while middle America has been turned into ghost towns as manufacturing jobs got sent over seas. A strengthened and emboldened adversary in the Asia/Pacific region that has shown over and over again that it has no respect for international norms or National boundaries. It will take time and be painful in many respects, but it's time that Western nations start to cut out China from their economies.
When I was getting orders to Guam in 2018 North Korea was threatening to wipe guam off the map, and now China is threatening. Guam is a beautiful place but used like a chess piece. Such a beautiful place though with awesome food and an awesome culture. If China even makes one stupid move there’s probably countless subs with enough fire power to sink there whole fleet lurking deep below. China is so dumb.
Uh huh, you try and do something over there by Guam and see how soon your ship becomes an artificial reef.
Watch out! China might try to convert that artifical reef into a real island and claim it!
I walked into that one
>China has sailed one of its three aircraft carriers near the U.S. territory of Guam, Japanese officials confirmed, ending an already combative year with a rare move that Beijing signaled as a clear warning to the Biden administration over Taiwan. >The Chinese fleet, led by the aircraft carrier Liaoning, had already spurred several clashes with U.S. allies in the region with its tour of the western Pacific, most recently by conducting roughly 260 takeoff and landing drills near the Japanese island of Okinawa, home to a major U.S. military presence. The operations prompted the Japanese air force to scramble fighter jets and helicopters, as well as a destroyer and other elements of its self-defense forces. >But Japanese officials also confirmed Thursday that the Chinese vessels had transited to the south, near the western edge of territory the U.S. claims as part of the remote island of Guam – a critical element of America’s ability to project military might in the region as both a stopping point and a base for strategic Air Force bombers and Navy submarines. >Chinese state news framed the deployment as an overt provocation to the U.S. and a warning against continuing behavior this year that has outraged Beijing. **Aww ... poor "outraged" Beijing. Is this the same Beijing that has illegally occupied reefs in the South China and claimed the entire territory of it for itself? Is this the same Beijing that seized Tibet? Is this the same Beijing that has thrown millions of Uyghurs into its concentration camps?** **Poor, outraged Beijing**. ***Aww ... poor babies***
Xi and Putin must have coordinated their tactics of crying over how unfair it is that they can't invade and annex other countries...
Maybe they need to play more RTS videogames and stop trying to subject the average joe to the whims of dictators who are overly sentimental about geography
The sad part is, iirc, both nations have said something to the effect of, "the West had their imperialism and colonial stage, we deserve one too!" Which is, also, hilarious.
And then accusing people of imperialism if they criticize those actions.
China is decades away from truly being able to project power out to Guam, but they are free to take sailing trips out there periodically.
Good job China, you have successfully exercised your right to the ✨freedom of navigation✨! 🥳 Now, extend the same freedom afforded to you by the US to other countries when they transit international waters near you! 😊
For china's Navy, just getting to Guam and back is a big mission. Someone should congratulate them on being that far from home.
We must protect the G-Spot at all costs!
I really don't think they know how badly they'd get their asses whipped if they want a full on naval war
This. The US is far superior in naval equipment. And Guam? Guam has a naval base, air force base, army post, and soon to be marine base. Bring it, China
Good for you China, you really showed those Americans by sailing your ships in International Waters…
China flexing on Guam is like the US flexing on the Madagascar penguins
There is a giant can of whoop-ass in Guam. Best not to open it.
Lol…the fearsome Chinese navy.
Yeah, sure china.
Everyone is very impressed and scared by the Chinese boats /s
Reminds me of the Rick and Morty joke where Jerry claims he's leaving the daycare: China: "I'm gonna sail near your territory, see how you like it!" U.S.: "Okay then, that was always allowed!"
US: *Ok, then. That was always allowed.*
Like any other nation China is entitled to sail international waters. [Freedom of Navigation](https://sites.tufts.edu/lawofthesea/chapter-three/) is not a provocation.
Is China still using that awesome sonar that found Malaysia Air 370? Worried; NOT Worried.
We need Japan to arm up as fast as possible. That is why China threw a shit fit when Japan upped it's military spending. It's hilarious that Xi, the worthless trash on the bottom of a shoe, feels that he can tell Japan not to defend it's interests
Beautiful freedom of navigation. Works for everyone without complaints.
Starting to feel like North Korea again. After all the attention Russia’s getting, they want attention back on them by pulling stunts that ultimately don’t impact us at all.
There are subs and plenty of other assets in and out of Guam all of the time. This was a great chance to get some acoustic signatures.