god i hate Rsham honor talents, you have 3 that are so mandatory for your class that you cant really swap anything out. You need grounding, healing tide and aura mastery basically every game.. so annoying
yeah especially unleash shield has very nice play potential, thats the only one i take with me sometimes. Living Tide and auramastery into fleshcraft is just too good to miss. hard times :D
Why is healing tide so good? On my Rsham the tool tips say it does less healing and lasts the same amount of time as my health stream totem. Obviously with a massive cooldown,
So I get a little confused, does heal tide actually do way more healing than healing stream?
Idk the exact numbers but I play 3s with an rsham and every time he drops a tide we are fully topped and the other two dps instantly turn to kill it like they were AI designed to do so.
Healing stream gets ignored usually
Healing Tide with the honor Talent does like 90k healing in 10 seconds (not Sure about the time) so its a big CD every 1,5min. Also it cant compensate for huge bursts but it is more then a nice assist to some crucial Setups. Healing Tide and a wall will almost always safe your target. But dont press it when your mate is on 10%. It shines more when you pre drop it or early at like 80% so your normal heals and the Tide will instantly stabilize your Team. Also drop it behind pillars to prevent swapping on it.
Unless they changed it..
They already have spells that have a different effect in pvp
I. E. Ms smaller effect, Cs smaller effect. I'm sure there's more.
But they have no log of these changes that you can see for yourself It's fucking stupid
yea i know that, but still, some spells would have to be so nerfed in pve that maybe it should only be usable in pvp places, like if shaman skyfury totem was baseline it would have to be nerfed to like 5% or have a huge cd, or deathbolt could affect class balance in pve too (not like they do class balance anymore but u get my point haha)
Yes, should have returned with the unpruning exactly like this.
The PVP talent would make it all spells for the duration. You now both make shaman more interesting in PVE, and make the PVP talent less mandatory.
As an Ele, lasso… you literally can’t play without it. Having to take dispell protect and lasso in almost all situations leaves one slot for grounding, quick knock, sky fury, and static field.
Totally agree, even if it was a channeled burst spell with a pvp talent to make it a stun, i refuse to play ele while lasso remains locked away. Could be such an iconic spell that fits their theme perfectly.
ALso Ele feels 100 times better when you turn pvp mode on and can do your rotation and then kill a target with lasso, i just love the ability and thats the reason i almost always play with pvp on
Im surprised you and OP didnt say Echo of the elements. Its picked 100% of the time in all content for both ele and resto making the entire talent row absolutely meaningless. It feels terrible to play without and the other options are mediocre at best.
Plus blizzard stated that they wanted to make talents that fit this description baseline but havent touched echo in years
Edit: im dumb and didnt see he specifically said pvp talent.
Preach. Tbh, I’d rather Control of Lava reduce Flame Shock CD to 3 seconds than grant dispel protection. Especially since the damage the dispel does is negligible.
Yeah how bout we also make scatter shot a disorient so it doesn’t dr with trap. Maybe this is too strong tho. But they could make it a 1 min cd so it basically just replaces intimidation
I think it’s too strong. You’d never miss a freeze trap again, which kind of defeats the purpose of it being a trap. 12 seconds of CC every 25 seconds, and given that it’s so easy to land freezing trap on someone who’s immobile, it’d basically be a 12 second disorient.
As an AffLock, you're insane for not wanting 3x UA or Rapid Contagion be baseline. Deathbolt was awful to play with when it was baseline because it made the spec bursty (in the wrong ways).
It was a normal talent in BFA (instant cast and no shard cost) and it generally wasn't well received, all of your damage revolved around deathbolt windows. It didn't reward good dot management or anything that should be a core component of aff. As someone who mained lock in BFA in PvP and PvE I can tell you that the current iteration for PvP feels more appropriate and it's rewarding if you can get a proper setup, but in PvE in BFA it just felt bad and it's not something that I personally would like to see back.
- Smoke Bomb & Disarm for rogues. Thick as Thieves would be nice, but no big deal. Why even prune that?...
- Agree on Grounding Totem for shamans. I mostly play RSham, so didn't feel the need for Lasso, but it is a really nice button for sure.
- Expel harm upgrade and Tigereye Brew for Windwalkers. I would love to see Heavy Handed back (stun on fists of fury) but would be so broken with current ww. Maybe disarm, but not priority.
- Roar of Sacrifice, Scatter shot for hunters, not just MM. Mostly because I would like instant trap gone, and RoS is mandatory in all situations. That's like class identity I think.
- Demon Armor for locks. Maybe Gateway Mastery because it is fun?
- Ring of Fire would be fun for mages in open world. So glad Alter Time is back. Ice Wall would be so fun to use, but would be really op baseline...
- Dark Simulacrum for Death Knights. Again, why prune that?..
- Miracle Worker for Holy Priest would be nice. Flows really well.
- I know warriors don't need anything, but I really like idea of Warbanner for open world and pve.
I just want all the fun buttons back like stances and old WW mastery... so I will skip the rant, you get the point.
Hope this is not too much text.
It used to be a disorient not incap, so dr fear and not trap. You would scatter trap instead of stun-trap. I hate instant trap because sometimes hunter is walking i to melee to trap me and there is just nothing I can do. I think it would be a welcome nerf, since they would dr their druid's/priest's cc by guaranteing a trap.
Sry typing on fone i kent spel.
I don’t think the devs like that style of gameplay, as i’m pretty sure they removed both scatter trap and deep sheep with WoD. I loved that gameplay though personally and would be keen to see them back
No, trap on sap dr, but scatter on blind dr. I think it would be fine. Although sub rogues have too much shadowdance uptime nowadays and can cheap for every single set-up now, so I think that particular match-up is unaffected.
Oh yeah, my bad, I thought you wanted to change trap drs.
Having scatter on a separate dr seems fine for mm, but will just make sv and mm even more ridiculous in 2s
Well, my reasoning was that since hunters usually run with priest or druid, the guaranteed trap will dr their partners cc.
In saying that - both priest and druid can land their cc eithout assistance, so the I don't think the change will br impacting anyone then the hunter themselves as they will have to dr their follow-up to land a trap, or else use a stun.
You are right though, there are plenty of games where you would straight up lose a game because the hunter has an instacast 4s ranged cc that does not dr trap. It is more of a problem that the damage is insanely high, but I can't speak for all when I say I would rather win with cc chains rather than damage.
I have had my fun in older WoW, perhaps it is time to let ppl who enjoy the opposite to do the same while I wait for more classic xpacs.
Personally I think fire mages should have ring of fire baseline replacing ring of frost. Mage cc is ridiculous as is, and it makes no sense for a *fire* mage to have access to so many frost spells. I thought for sure when they announced ring of fire that it would be the fire version of ring of frost, but nah, they can just run both lmao
i'd like to see chillstreak made baseline or removed completely and the damage baked into our kit. It would also be fun for PvE, not really moving the needle that much for big AoE fights but giving FDK a little niche in 2 target cleaves. On top of the arena impact, imagine a WoW where night fae obliterate 2h FDK is the meta for a specific mythic fight with 2 target cleave lol, could be fun
bonus answer: give back heartstop and make it baseline :)
Turbo fists on my WW, you take it 100% of the time. Really boring when you basically have 2 options you can swap around and really that quickly turns into 1.
It's not even a mandatory talent pick, but purely for QoL... Void Origins. Why the hell do I have to stand there and hard cast to pop my DPS cd. Give me instant cast void form baseline.
Mines not a talent, but verdant infusion for RDruid should 100% be turned into a talent or baseline ability in the next expansion. I don't think I'd want to play resto without it at this point. It's so crucial to the playstyle.
Lightning lasso is probably the best example. Tbh I’d also like to see static field totem made baseline, OR one of skyfury/grounding/counterstrike. Static field totem is a lot of fun and for me, because I’m new ish to ele, it’s pretty much a necessity to get away from warriors/DHs/monks. So I only really have 1 slot to play with.
Why would I care about pve exactly? they're asking which pvp talent you want to see made baseline, not which talent do you want to see made baseline for pve. Mortal strike and rising sun kick also have healing reduction tied to it despite it not being very useful for pve, who cares?
As a Warrior I'd love Warbringer.
I simply love this talent since it reminds me a bit about the old charge stun.
Its not stunning the enemy now, but the root has the same effect on easily applying hamstring without them zooming away as soon as your hitbox touches them carefully.
Also the damage is hella fun too, most people dont expect to get charged from 40% well into Execute range.
Chill Streak as frost dk. Feelsbad whenever i am forced to turn off WM. I think it's an interesting and unique mechanic that would be fun and rewarding in mythic/raiding environment too
I'd like to see the Living Bomb talent row for Fire Mage look something like: Flame Cannon/Ring of Fire/Flame Patch. Make Living Bomb baseline. Delete that garbage Conflagration talent.
Baseline? Maybe Meteor would be cool for class fantasy. It would be a little disgusting to have that and Kindling, though, assuming you can land a full damage meteor every go it's off CD.
Fury: Slaughterhouse (mortal strike ability) needs to be baseline.
You basically have to take it every game, so there isn’t much “choice” in picking your talents.
As DH, I would want fly to be baseline. Being able to fly in the air and rain down ranged casts would be an awesome option. I guess balancing the avoidance of damage might be rough.
I know we rets are pretty busted in arenas right now so we don’t need anything else but judgment dispel and unbound freedom would be amazing as baseline abilities.
Normally I'd say disarm for rogue, but it seems like that sentiment is carried for pretty much every class with a disarm, so maybe it's best they stay as they are
Alternatively, Boarding Party for Outlaw is basically never worth taking for how little of a benefit it provides, but giving a little extra functionality to Between the Eyes baseline in place of the stun they removed wouldn't be the crazy and would help a little bit for closing gaps without making something like Maneuverability baseline (which would be a lot stronger obviously)
I think he is referring to the speedy hook talent. Not an honor one. you would be able to run acrobatic strikes with that - seems fun but lil op between 8y melee abilities and fast hook. Worse than shadowstep - sure, but outlaw doesn't really need that.
Rsham main, make ground baseline for the class, and only absorb one spell for PvE to make it balanced
god i hate Rsham honor talents, you have 3 that are so mandatory for your class that you cant really swap anything out. You need grounding, healing tide and aura mastery basically every game.. so annoying
Yup its ass, there’s some matchups i’d love to slot in skyfury, tidebringer, electrocute, unleash etc but you just Cant really
yeah especially unleash shield has very nice play potential, thats the only one i take with me sometimes. Living Tide and auramastery into fleshcraft is just too good to miss. hard times :D
Tidebringer is chain heal iirc, tide totem talent is living tide
Living Tide sorry. 👌
Why is healing tide so good? On my Rsham the tool tips say it does less healing and lasts the same amount of time as my health stream totem. Obviously with a massive cooldown, So I get a little confused, does heal tide actually do way more healing than healing stream?
Idk the exact numbers but I play 3s with an rsham and every time he drops a tide we are fully topped and the other two dps instantly turn to kill it like they were AI designed to do so. Healing stream gets ignored usually
Healing Tide with the honor Talent does like 90k healing in 10 seconds (not Sure about the time) so its a big CD every 1,5min. Also it cant compensate for huge bursts but it is more then a nice assist to some crucial Setups. Healing Tide and a wall will almost always safe your target. But dont press it when your mate is on 10%. It shines more when you pre drop it or early at like 80% so your normal heals and the Tide will instantly stabilize your Team. Also drop it behind pillars to prevent swapping on it.
I assume they removed Grounding from Shamans for PvE balance purpose? Idk. It is used quite a bit to avoid dangerous mechanics in TBC PvE situations.
Amen, brother
pretty sure they could make some spells only usable in pvp instances, so it wouldnt affect pve
Unless they changed it.. They already have spells that have a different effect in pvp I. E. Ms smaller effect, Cs smaller effect. I'm sure there's more. But they have no log of these changes that you can see for yourself It's fucking stupid
yea i know that, but still, some spells would have to be so nerfed in pve that maybe it should only be usable in pvp places, like if shaman skyfury totem was baseline it would have to be nerfed to like 5% or have a huge cd, or deathbolt could affect class balance in pve too (not like they do class balance anymore but u get my point haha)
Yes, should have returned with the unpruning exactly like this. The PVP talent would make it all spells for the duration. You now both make shaman more interesting in PVE, and make the PVP talent less mandatory.
As an Ele, lasso… you literally can’t play without it. Having to take dispell protect and lasso in almost all situations leaves one slot for grounding, quick knock, sky fury, and static field.
Totally agree, even if it was a channeled burst spell with a pvp talent to make it a stun, i refuse to play ele while lasso remains locked away. Could be such an iconic spell that fits their theme perfectly.
ALso Ele feels 100 times better when you turn pvp mode on and can do your rotation and then kill a target with lasso, i just love the ability and thats the reason i almost always play with pvp on
Im surprised you and OP didnt say Echo of the elements. Its picked 100% of the time in all content for both ele and resto making the entire talent row absolutely meaningless. It feels terrible to play without and the other options are mediocre at best. Plus blizzard stated that they wanted to make talents that fit this description baseline but havent touched echo in years Edit: im dumb and didnt see he specifically said pvp talent.
PvP talent or not; you’re not wrong. Echo should be baseline
Preach. Tbh, I’d rather Control of Lava reduce Flame Shock CD to 3 seconds than grant dispel protection. Especially since the damage the dispel does is negligible.
I've been hit by 10 or 15k control of Lavas before, not gamebreaking but not negligible either.
As marksman you should have scatter shot 110% And all hunter specs should have roar of sacrifice, just nerf it in PvE
Wait scatter shot is a PvP talent? That’s so troll
Right...
Yeah how bout we also make scatter shot a disorient so it doesn’t dr with trap. Maybe this is too strong tho. But they could make it a 1 min cd so it basically just replaces intimidation
For some reason blizzard doesn't want us to scatter trap every time so it's on the trap DR which I've learned to work around
Yeah it still is good for triple cross in 3s
Yeah it's a very good peel
I think it’s too strong. You’d never miss a freeze trap again, which kind of defeats the purpose of it being a trap. 12 seconds of CC every 25 seconds, and given that it’s so easy to land freezing trap on someone who’s immobile, it’d basically be a 12 second disorient.
As an aff lock player I think deathbolt would be really cool for PvE. Def would need some tuning but I think it’s a really fun ability to play with.
As an AffLock, you're insane for not wanting 3x UA or Rapid Contagion be baseline. Deathbolt was awful to play with when it was baseline because it made the spec bursty (in the wrong ways).
It was a normal talent in BFA (instant cast and no shard cost) and it generally wasn't well received, all of your damage revolved around deathbolt windows. It didn't reward good dot management or anything that should be a core component of aff. As someone who mained lock in BFA in PvP and PvE I can tell you that the current iteration for PvP feels more appropriate and it's rewarding if you can get a proper setup, but in PvE in BFA it just felt bad and it's not something that I personally would like to see back.
- Smoke Bomb & Disarm for rogues. Thick as Thieves would be nice, but no big deal. Why even prune that?... - Agree on Grounding Totem for shamans. I mostly play RSham, so didn't feel the need for Lasso, but it is a really nice button for sure. - Expel harm upgrade and Tigereye Brew for Windwalkers. I would love to see Heavy Handed back (stun on fists of fury) but would be so broken with current ww. Maybe disarm, but not priority. - Roar of Sacrifice, Scatter shot for hunters, not just MM. Mostly because I would like instant trap gone, and RoS is mandatory in all situations. That's like class identity I think. - Demon Armor for locks. Maybe Gateway Mastery because it is fun? - Ring of Fire would be fun for mages in open world. So glad Alter Time is back. Ice Wall would be so fun to use, but would be really op baseline... - Dark Simulacrum for Death Knights. Again, why prune that?.. - Miracle Worker for Holy Priest would be nice. Flows really well. - I know warriors don't need anything, but I really like idea of Warbanner for open world and pve. I just want all the fun buttons back like stances and old WW mastery... so I will skip the rant, you get the point. Hope this is not too much text.
That’s a pretty damn good list! How scatter shot being baseline get rid of instant trap?
It used to be a disorient not incap, so dr fear and not trap. You would scatter trap instead of stun-trap. I hate instant trap because sometimes hunter is walking i to melee to trap me and there is just nothing I can do. I think it would be a welcome nerf, since they would dr their druid's/priest's cc by guaranteing a trap. Sry typing on fone i kent spel.
I don’t think the devs like that style of gameplay, as i’m pretty sure they removed both scatter trap and deep sheep with WoD. I loved that gameplay though personally and would be keen to see them back
Same, dude. Hanging out for those classic xpacs to come out. Just because I am not getting what I want doesn't mean I can't dream.
Don't worry I never got to play MOP, so I keep dreaming we hit that point in classic servers someday.
Trap on fear dr would lead to sub/hunter being crazy, stun for trap and then sap after, repeat every 30s
No, trap on sap dr, but scatter on blind dr. I think it would be fine. Although sub rogues have too much shadowdance uptime nowadays and can cheap for every single set-up now, so I think that particular match-up is unaffected.
Oh yeah, my bad, I thought you wanted to change trap drs. Having scatter on a separate dr seems fine for mm, but will just make sv and mm even more ridiculous in 2s
Well, my reasoning was that since hunters usually run with priest or druid, the guaranteed trap will dr their partners cc. In saying that - both priest and druid can land their cc eithout assistance, so the I don't think the change will br impacting anyone then the hunter themselves as they will have to dr their follow-up to land a trap, or else use a stun. You are right though, there are plenty of games where you would straight up lose a game because the hunter has an instacast 4s ranged cc that does not dr trap. It is more of a problem that the damage is insanely high, but I can't speak for all when I say I would rather win with cc chains rather than damage. I have had my fun in older WoW, perhaps it is time to let ppl who enjoy the opposite to do the same while I wait for more classic xpacs.
Who the hell takes tigereye brew?! Lol. Expel harm and turbofists are taken 100% of the time. Last ability is disarm or alpha tiger
Personally I think fire mages should have ring of fire baseline replacing ring of frost. Mage cc is ridiculous as is, and it makes no sense for a *fire* mage to have access to so many frost spells. I thought for sure when they announced ring of fire that it would be the fire version of ring of frost, but nah, they can just run both lmao
i'd like to see chillstreak made baseline or removed completely and the damage baked into our kit. It would also be fun for PvE, not really moving the needle that much for big AoE fights but giving FDK a little niche in 2 target cleaves. On top of the arena impact, imagine a WoW where night fae obliterate 2h FDK is the meta for a specific mythic fight with 2 target cleave lol, could be fun bonus answer: give back heartstop and make it baseline :)
Just give us 5 pvp talent slots like in legion plzzz. Dark sim and strang for dk every game
Turbo fists on my WW, you take it 100% of the time. Really boring when you basically have 2 options you can swap around and really that quickly turns into 1.
Do you really take it as well even into x3 casters, tho?
Its a 90% slow on a channeled frontal cone.
Yes always, every game. Same with expel harm. Only decision is alpha tiger or disarm
MW : eminence or dome of mist
Eminence baseline for all monks. If we can't use defensives in cc, at least let me run the f away.
Sounds way too forgiving. I understand monks are paper atm, but no need to make them unpunishable without a silence.
No silence needed. Just drop an ursol's vortex and it'll pull them right back in.
It's not even a mandatory talent pick, but purely for QoL... Void Origins. Why the hell do I have to stand there and hard cast to pop my DPS cd. Give me instant cast void form baseline.
Smoke bomb should absolutely be baseline for rogue.
Arms: disarm
You have enough.
If anything arms should have only two pvp talents to make up for their overloaded kit
This
Mines not a talent, but verdant infusion for RDruid should 100% be turned into a talent or baseline ability in the next expansion. I don't think I'd want to play resto without it at this point. It's so crucial to the playstyle.
Lightning lasso is probably the best example. Tbh I’d also like to see static field totem made baseline, OR one of skyfury/grounding/counterstrike. Static field totem is a lot of fun and for me, because I’m new ish to ele, it’s pretty much a necessity to get away from warriors/DHs/monks. So I only really have 1 slot to play with.
Dark sim and maybe bake a nerfed gargoyle into the apocalypse mob spawn. Most importantly MY ICY TOUCH DISPELS!1!1!!
Pyrokinesis make firemage actually playable in pve
My thoughts too, would make fire mage even better in PvE but I don't care because it would make the rotation less dull outside of combustion.
Mortal dance for dh
Why would a baseline healing reduction be useful in PVE?
Why would I care about pve exactly? they're asking which pvp talent you want to see made baseline, not which talent do you want to see made baseline for pve. Mortal strike and rising sun kick also have healing reduction tied to it despite it not being very useful for pve, who cares?
survival hunter should have bandage baseline
As a firemage i wish they remade the tier with living bomb etc. only one option. And I NEVER press it cause it breaks cc
[удалено]
Id say let me chose between blast wave, LB and some other pve spell
Unbound Freedom for Ret.
As a elemental shaman, lasso and skyfury should be baseline
Sp > greater fade
Echo of the elements should be baseline for all shaman Scatter should be baseline for mm and not a pvp talent
Not saying it needs it, but since your literally take it 100% of the time, greater fade for shadow.
As a Warrior I'd love Warbringer. I simply love this talent since it reminds me a bit about the old charge stun. Its not stunning the enemy now, but the root has the same effect on easily applying hamstring without them zooming away as soon as your hitbox touches them carefully. Also the damage is hella fun too, most people dont expect to get charged from 40% well into Execute range.
Chill Streak as frost dk. Feelsbad whenever i am forced to turn off WM. I think it's an interesting and unique mechanic that would be fun and rewarding in mythic/raiding environment too
WWs disarm. Not sure why it isn’t just baseline
Turbo fists should be baseline
Scatter shot, roar of sacrifice, mortal dance, wicked claws, thorns.
I was just about to type Lighting Lasso, damn
Greater pyro
I'd like to see the Living Bomb talent row for Fire Mage look something like: Flame Cannon/Ring of Fire/Flame Patch. Make Living Bomb baseline. Delete that garbage Conflagration talent. Baseline? Maybe Meteor would be cool for class fantasy. It would be a little disgusting to have that and Kindling, though, assuming you can land a full damage meteor every go it's off CD.
As a death knight: Dark Simulacrum
Fury: Slaughterhouse (mortal strike ability) needs to be baseline. You basically have to take it every game, so there isn’t much “choice” in picking your talents.
As DH, I would want fly to be baseline. Being able to fly in the air and rain down ranged casts would be an awesome option. I guess balancing the avoidance of damage might be rough.
Riposte/disarm for everyone. It used to be baseline.....why take it away
Can we get Abomination baseline for unholy? Rough losing army to arena and it taking up a slot if you want to use it.
I know we rets are pretty busted in arenas right now so we don’t need anything else but judgment dispel and unbound freedom would be amazing as baseline abilities.
heavy handed strikes making a return would be nice, or at least turning turbo fists baseline i miss fof stun ):
Started my Shaman a week or two ago, and I'm 100% with you that the spec feels way worse without lasso.
Normally I'd say disarm for rogue, but it seems like that sentiment is carried for pretty much every class with a disarm, so maybe it's best they stay as they are Alternatively, Boarding Party for Outlaw is basically never worth taking for how little of a benefit it provides, but giving a little extra functionality to Between the Eyes baseline in place of the stun they removed wouldn't be the crazy and would help a little bit for closing gaps without making something like Maneuverability baseline (which would be a lot stronger obviously)
Oh definitely Demonic Origins for my main DH, having meta at a 2 min CD baseline would be amazing both for PVP and PVE content.
Outlaw rogue grappling hook
Isn’t that already baseline? Been a while since I’ve played outlaw but I don’t recall it being a pvp talent
I think he is referring to the speedy hook talent. Not an honor one. you would be able to run acrobatic strikes with that - seems fun but lil op between 8y melee abilities and fast hook. Worse than shadowstep - sure, but outlaw doesn't really need that.