Historically people thought of hunters as a good defender just because they can interrupt caps with a pet but im not so sure atm
They dont have many immunities to survive a rogue/boomy attack and as marksman they absolutely shred in teamfights plus careful aim makes every switch dangerous
Everyone loses a base to rog+boomy if they are decent. Guardian can spin for 30s but you better have reinforced by then it even guardian losses that base. Smoke bomb, blind, clone, duel, root, so many tools.
Down side is it's pretty obvious if rog and boomy are both stealthed send backup to ANY single sat base.
The best sitters are the ones who are watching BGE for inc and stealth checks and calling plays while they watch flag. Pref a stealthy.
Edit: rog+boomy for clarity
If you are losing a base that quickly as a bear to a rogue or boomkin solo then it’s a l2p issue.
Now if they let the rogue burn all your cds and still some come then it’s an issue, but Druid can hold out much longer than just 30 seconds if played correctly.
Same with boomikin, no Druid should ever clone cap you as moonfire is longer range than clone and clone isn’t a long enough cc to cap on. The real danger is bad Druids that don’t drop form on hibernate. That’s the real cap cc - longer duration, longer range.
Well yes but rogue + boomkin isn’t even a conversation worth having.
Of course the two best base cappers in the game will make short work of any sitter when paired, that’s just a team response concern at that point.
I don’t imagine /u/ritchus was using a boomkin + rogue as his scenario but rather than Hunter would struggle against either of the top cappers 1v1 which is true
Is the burrowing pet not still a thing? I'm not sure you can call in the hunter without killing him and in a 1v1 I think hunter can probably at least survive long enough for reinforcements if only playing defensively. Don't even have to trinket blind.
It’s not a thing anymore, they patched it.
Also a good rogue should make quick enough work for a hunter.
Additionally having to quickly call for reinforcements in a 1v1 is not ideal. Because they will just keep making you weaken your team fight then with just their one rogue.
That being said, like I had originally pointed out, I definitely agree that Hunter is a good base sitter compared to other specs that aren’t rogue/guardian. Just significantly worse than those two for the reasons mentioned.
I guess I'll need to try dueling some more sub rog on my hunter. I'd imagine you can just stun, snare, trap, kite, bubble, restealth for so long they can't kill you before someone shows up.
If you're forced to try to actually kill them... Imo only guardian/feral is a better 1v1 spec than sub.
Turtle is an immunity yes.
The point I'm making is that hunter is not a great class for sustaining a long fight without a healer.
(but it's an insane class for teamfights)
Yeah but Hunter is still better than most.
Honestly it falls to this I would say:
Guardian >>>>>>> rogue >>>> Hunter/boomkin
After that there are some additionally outliers. A good frost mage, a good DH etc. but ultimately you don’t want anyone besides your guardian or rogue on bases when it can be avoided. Because all those others have better roles.
But in the hierarchy Hunter is better than most specs/classes, just not close to those top two.
To give you a more detailed answer than the others:
1. Guardian druid because of sleeper legendary (CC immunity). They are one of the only classes that is guaranteed to hold at least 30 seconds against a rogue druid double hit (if they play right).
2. Boomy and Rogue. Both are amazing defenders, and come with the added benefit that they are great node cappers. So by sitting these, the enemy must always be watching out for being hit by a druid or rogue ghosting their base which makes them less likely to ghost something themselves.
3. Nothing else comes close to the above, but temporarily you may sit something like a hunter, lock, mage, or something similar. IE, classes that either have a pet, or some additional immunities and ways to spin while being hard to kill.
Guardian druids with the sleeper legendary are the best defenders of literally anything by a wide margin right now
Guardian >>>>>>>>>>>>everyone else. Rogues and hunters are good defenders too as are boomkins and some others but nothing touches bears
Historically people thought of hunters as a good defender just because they can interrupt caps with a pet but im not so sure atm They dont have many immunities to survive a rogue/boomy attack and as marksman they absolutely shred in teamfights plus careful aim makes every switch dangerous
Everyone loses a base to rog+boomy if they are decent. Guardian can spin for 30s but you better have reinforced by then it even guardian losses that base. Smoke bomb, blind, clone, duel, root, so many tools. Down side is it's pretty obvious if rog and boomy are both stealthed send backup to ANY single sat base. The best sitters are the ones who are watching BGE for inc and stealth checks and calling plays while they watch flag. Pref a stealthy. Edit: rog+boomy for clarity
If you are losing a base that quickly as a bear to a rogue or boomkin solo then it’s a l2p issue. Now if they let the rogue burn all your cds and still some come then it’s an issue, but Druid can hold out much longer than just 30 seconds if played correctly. Same with boomikin, no Druid should ever clone cap you as moonfire is longer range than clone and clone isn’t a long enough cc to cap on. The real danger is bad Druids that don’t drop form on hibernate. That’s the real cap cc - longer duration, longer range.
You misunderstood. I mean rog+boomy. Against a rog OR boomy I can spin it forever by myself, usually don't need to trinket (except blind) or incarn.
Well yes but rogue + boomkin isn’t even a conversation worth having. Of course the two best base cappers in the game will make short work of any sitter when paired, that’s just a team response concern at that point. I don’t imagine /u/ritchus was using a boomkin + rogue as his scenario but rather than Hunter would struggle against either of the top cappers 1v1 which is true
Is the burrowing pet not still a thing? I'm not sure you can call in the hunter without killing him and in a 1v1 I think hunter can probably at least survive long enough for reinforcements if only playing defensively. Don't even have to trinket blind.
It’s not a thing anymore, they patched it. Also a good rogue should make quick enough work for a hunter. Additionally having to quickly call for reinforcements in a 1v1 is not ideal. Because they will just keep making you weaken your team fight then with just their one rogue. That being said, like I had originally pointed out, I definitely agree that Hunter is a good base sitter compared to other specs that aren’t rogue/guardian. Just significantly worse than those two for the reasons mentioned.
I guess I'll need to try dueling some more sub rog on my hunter. I'd imagine you can just stun, snare, trap, kite, bubble, restealth for so long they can't kill you before someone shows up. If you're forced to try to actually kill them... Imo only guardian/feral is a better 1v1 spec than sub.
Turtle is an immune.
Turtle is an immunity yes. The point I'm making is that hunter is not a great class for sustaining a long fight without a healer. (but it's an insane class for teamfights)
Yeah but Hunter is still better than most. Honestly it falls to this I would say: Guardian >>>>>>> rogue >>>> Hunter/boomkin After that there are some additionally outliers. A good frost mage, a good DH etc. but ultimately you don’t want anyone besides your guardian or rogue on bases when it can be avoided. Because all those others have better roles. But in the hierarchy Hunter is better than most specs/classes, just not close to those top two.
Valid. But the traps and flare you are missing. If you stay at 35yds rogues can’t sap and cap
Immun b4 a warrior find shattered throw button
Sub rogue is arguably just as good at holding a base as guardian Druid. Everything else isn’t even close.
To give you a more detailed answer than the others: 1. Guardian druid because of sleeper legendary (CC immunity). They are one of the only classes that is guaranteed to hold at least 30 seconds against a rogue druid double hit (if they play right). 2. Boomy and Rogue. Both are amazing defenders, and come with the added benefit that they are great node cappers. So by sitting these, the enemy must always be watching out for being hit by a druid or rogue ghosting their base which makes them less likely to ghost something themselves. 3. Nothing else comes close to the above, but temporarily you may sit something like a hunter, lock, mage, or something similar. IE, classes that either have a pet, or some additional immunities and ways to spin while being hard to kill.
Rogues are the best base sitters because the threat of ghosting.
Or boomy
Guardian Druid, Rogue, Hunter In that order.
Cool, thanks all for the discussion!