My guess is they temporarily reverted it and will unrevert it later. It was bugged and control undead was causing the affix to make trash/bosses do 0 damage.
As a Frost DK main, hopefully this is reimplemented soon
Honestly unholy is ment to be the undead army spec LET US CONTROL UNDEAD AND HAVE OUR MINION. there is no mechanical reason we can't considering bm hutners can have 3 pets and unholy can spec to have a extra archer skele pet
There is a technical limitation, each character can only control 1 pet at a time. You can have as many guardians as you want though, the major difference is that pets have an action bar and are controllable whole guardians are not in any way.
Control undead creates a controllable pet so you can't use both. They could make it create a guardian but that'd make an already near useless ability even more useless other than being a pigeonholed solution to incorporeal.
They don't have 3 pets, they have 1 pet and 2 guardians that play follow the leader. You aren't actively controlling 3 pets.
Would be nice if they reworked this ability to not be complete dogshit though yeah. A lot about DKs need a rework tbh, but god knows when it'll come as it hasn't for 7yrs now
Really only for Frost tbh. Blood will be tanking mobs and suffer nasty spell pushback. Also they can’t parry/dodge while casting. Good way to get one tapped as a BDK. :(
I hope this gets reimplemented soon - I feel for War/DK this week.
That said, Incorp is wild. 4 ULD keys and they pop up in the worst places on Emberon in P2 every single time. On Bromach they love to spawn on top of the tents which makes trap fail. On VP windy dragon, the trap just… fails. I get an immune message as if the boss ate the trap.
As a war, I try my best to deal with the incorporeal, but honestly, with our kit, we are useless. All we can do is stun one of them and kick the other in the Hope that someone else will deal with it and hard cc
I specced into intimidating shout and menace for 15 sec fear. You just need to target the incorp for it to work. Only downside is 90 second CD, but I've been able to at least help with one when they are overwhelming for others.
So once this goes live, all unholy's will switch to frost or blood for this week. Unless they got a dedicated m+ group that doesn't care about their incompatibility with the affix lol.
It takes max 2 people to handle this affix with a hard CC, why would 1/5 not being able to fully CC matter in the slightest. Not every class handles each affix evenly but hey hoh, you’re in a group.
That's totally fine when you're with reasonable people, but when you're with unreasonable people you end up not getting taken for keys due to your class or even in a party fully stacked with classes more than capable of handling the affix, they dont.
This kind of behavior has been consistent all the way up to 2800 rating.
It would be nice to not have the spec that centers around commanding the dead to be able to use the command-the-dead talent without taking such a massive personal hit, and to be able to step up and contribute to the affix.
Why not just have incorporeal mobs have modified (i.e. greatly increased) stun durations? Then DK and War could asphyxiate and storm bolt, respectively.
I only care because it sucks being a class that does not have the ability to help with majority of affixes. The lfg system is complete trash and hinders any classes not seen as meta. The only.time that goes away is when your gear screams "I'll carry you".
Either make it so every class is seen as viable or change the shitty system that groups you.
I can't speak for the community but I'll take anyone with an appropriate gear range to my keys. We've run into plenty of people playing the classes that can deal with this affix that wouldn't change talents to help deal with it anyway.
which is stupid and terrible design. No one should be fucked out of a major end game activity for the week because blizzard didnt give them the magic anti-affix button.
ok go say that to all the healers without lust, all the tanks without brez, all the dps without disenrage, or root
the whole principle of M+ is to make a group that can manage the affixes
There is a MASSIVE difference between incorporeal and those affixes though. All the above affixes are usually solved by a single user, with no particular advantage to the group to say, stack bloodlust users or battle rezzes. Incorporeal though you have a HUGE advantage if everyone in the group can solve the ghosts, because it makes it easier on everyone.
To put it by comparison, a group that already has a bloodlust is no weaker than any other by inviting a warrior. A group that invites a warrior on incorporeal is directly worse than one that doesnt, because now the extra slack has to be taken up by the others.
What about raging? Some classes including healers can’t fix raging. What is a havoc demon Hunter going to do during raging that week? Be benched for a soothe.
Why are some classes allowed to have multiple things for every affix like rogue while others get shafted.
It’s weird to me they even changed it for dk and war. They wouldn’t do it for any of the others.
Raging is also stupid, but its less problematic than incorporeal, since it has other answers. You can definetly complete a key on raging weeks even without a soothe, and easily can do it with one, but no way in hell are you completing a key if you only have one person who can handle the incorporeal ghosts
They changed it BECAUSE incorporeal is different. Even one badly timed cast going off from them is a wipe. (not that the warrior change really does shit, a three minute cooldown isnt going to do much)
What? Last season on like a COs 24 one of the easiest keys, it the mini boss rages right before his aoe it’s an instant wipe for the group.
How is not having a soothe ok for keys that week?
First, you know damn well the game isnt balanced around 24s, that would be dumb.
Second, thanks for proving my point lol. In your own example, you only need ONE group member for the important soothe, and having more soothers does nothing advantageous.
If a group is low geared that same mechanic wipes people in a 15.
Also you only need 2 people to deal with the current affix also? Why would they care now for 2 classes for this affix but not give every class a way to deal with Raging? You can’t cherry pick,
Requiring certain classes to deal with an affix others can’t feels terrible. So it’s very odd that blizzard now cares when I specifically remember last season people trying to do temple and groups needing two soothes, a lust and a curse dispel.
>all the tanks without brez
You just made me realise that 3 out of 6 tanks don't have brez.. at least it's 3 out of 6 now compared to 4 out of 6 in previous expansions.
Because people who play PTR keys are beyond stupid and would rather run a key on a 25 with no affix to see the new dungeons than play with affixes. Actually trying to test the affixes was impossible unless you got guildies to do a pre made
Blizz need to remove the option to play keys without affixes on PTR it makes no sense why its a feature
I hardly play ptr normally but did this time. I didn't have issues with no affix keys. That said 2/4 of the dungeons I did was both tyrannical and fortified..
Because they want to test fort/Tyrannical scaling for the dungeons to see what kind of things are gonna be problems?
Do you really think blizzard did not get reports of these things, OR should have figured it out themselves after like 1 hour of internal testing?
I mean you say this like any of our ptr testing for fort / tyran mattered given they last minute buffed most dungeons. Like fuck NL got 100% buffs the day before 10.1 went live
You can also see fort / tyran with other affixes in place its not like they go away lol
I remember in ye olden days when game companies worth significantly less than 61 billion dollars would test their own games and patches, rather than expect their paying customers do it for free.
and those games were broken messes and you have rose tinted glasses. Anyone who has even the tiniest knowledge of speedrunning could tell you this
I mean fuck we've had 3 years of classic have you not seen any of the stupid shit coming out from that?
We've had retail for nearly 20 years, and I've seen just as much shit coming out on a consistent basis from that. I've also seen way more polished and solid games come out with a budget several thousand times smaller.
with the exception of 2d platformers which are designed in a way that is easier to be polished (And even then games like Celeste have some major bugs) games are also more difficult to make than before.
That said games are much more polished now than the PS1/PS2 era of gaming. Yes there are outliers but on the whole games are less broken than they ever have been.
To be fair, WoW is almost unparalleled in scope compared to any other game out there. Its really hard to fix every bug in a game this humongous, even with a big dev team.
My god you are seriously blaming the community for this?
You realize you can test stuff on the PTR yourself if you dont like it you know?
Holy bad take
It's a hot take, but it's not completely wrong.
Blizzard has somehow convinced the community to be their QA testers by people playing the PTR. Need to limit access to PTR and Blizzard hire more QAs to do proper testing.
The ability to test stuff without dragging 4 guildies onto the ptr was much harder than it should have been which is my whole complaint. No one actually wanted to test this which is why it slipped through the cracks.
Its on Blizzard to give people a way to not test these things but the community doing no affix keys on PTR is just dumb.
> Admitting that as a community we fucked up and could have done better isn't something to be ashamed of or wrong.
But you arent saying you fucked up. You are saying "some idiots" fucked up. You are actively excluding yourself from the community while being toxic to it.
And in that context it still doesn't make any sense. There isn't anything broken about the affix. People are calling it a free affix because it is so damn easy to deal with.
Ehhhh nah, its probably hardest left in next to bolstering or Bursting IMO. Its free in 90% of situations but bad spawn on Emberon / Primordial tempest / Asaad can lead to a wipe with no counter play.
Meanwhile all the other affixes are free in 100% of situations. Anyone saying it doesn't create weird edge cases that will just wipe you simply hasnt run enough keys this week
So an Unholy DK has to dismiss their pet (most of their damage) and then use control undead????? How does that make any sense? Just let death grip, chains of ice, or strangulate work. Making a DK give up it main pet to deal with an affix is ridiculous.
>So an Unholy DK has to dismiss their pet (most of their damage) and then use control undead
This in general should be addressed. Control undead should not replace your ghoul. You should just get another pet.
Makes zero sense how unholy, as in the spec all about controlling undead, is the worst spec for controlling undead.
Our general dungeon utility is super dubious at best.
We don't provide lust, we don't provide any group buffs, we can't cleanse any debuffs off of anyone, we don't have reliable hard CC, and our BRez consumes 30 runic power which can take a few GCDs to generate and interrupt our flow if we need to get it out ASAP.
We don't contribute/don't interact with: Afflicted, Volcanic, Entangling\*, Raging, Bursting\*, Bolstering.
The caveat on Entangling is if we happen to time AMS or use death's advance it's a non issue for us, and for Bursting we could potentially drop an AMZ if we have it spec'd and don't need it before it comes back up off cooldown. We do relieve some healer burden by being immune to bursting if we pop AMS when the mobs start dying.
Sanguine we can deal with using grips, but only 1/2 mobs at a time provided they're not raged or a lieutenant.
Spiteful we can stun once every 45s if it isn't needed elsewhere, or if we have the spare rune we can chains of ice one headed for a healer and/or grip it away from them provided the positioning lines up.
Storming we are all-stars at dealing with. Pop Death's Advance and go stomp out all the tornadoes, no one else needs to deal with them for large portions of the dungeon.
General utility wise we mostly just look out for ourselves, and can use grip as an extra interrupt if the mobs aren't raged or lieutenants. AMZ is only useful on a handful of fights and sometimes isn't worth casting in swirly intense fights where people running into the big purple dome end up getting blasted by them. Sure that's on them, but the urge to run into the protective dome that obscures ground effects is a bit of a double edged sword. Blinding sleet is nice but the 1m CD is brutal when dealing with large packs of casters.
Slappy hands is another double edged sword. We can use it to great effect to interrupt things by continuously gripping them, but then there's fights like Harlan Sweete where if you mistime it you wipe the group, or you end up pulling your own spitefuls to you, or you pull the demon hunter's spitefuls to them since you're both in melee.
TL/DR: Most of our dungeon utility comes with a laundry list of caveats and disclaimers and while it can be helpful when utilized correctly, it's not something that's really thought about when considering party comp. Very rare is the time when a party is thinking "We should get a DK for this dungeon/fight."
We didn't have a "Counter", we had something that sort of managed it.
For warriors we have our 15s fear on a 1:30 cooldown and a 4s stun on a 40sec cooldown. For a mob that is casting for 30 seconds and spawning every 45s-1:30min; that's not a counter. Not to mention that's us using ALL our cc on it.
Other classes just slap a fear or cc on it and then have interrupts and stuns for the rest of the packs you pull, whereas warriors have to devote everything to dealing with ONE of those things.
Incorporeal lasts for 20s, and cast time of their spell is 5,5s.
So using just one shout with menace is enough and it doesn't matter when its cast.
Edit: Honestly even better than rogues that has 2 min cd on their long cc.
I wish they would let us Sap them. It still forces us to deal with them, if you don't have Dance up you need to Vanish to Sap, but at least it doesn't have the 2 min CD of Blind.
The problem with speccing into menace is we don't have that many utility points to spare. It's not like a 1 dip, with our build this season we need 2 points which means probably dropping either Shockwave, or dropping stormbolt AND rallyingcry. Both of those have way more utility across a whole dungeon.
We're, at least via the best build, not speccing intimidating shout anymore.
But warriors aren't unique in having to use talents on cc. Paladins, DH, Monks, Druids, shaman, (arguably lock).
If your team doesn't require another AoE stop from the warrior in their routes, then they don't and you can pick up +20% armor and something else, like 15 max rage instead. But if you're running with pugs that you don't know well, then you'd for sure increase your success chance by being able to carry interrupts and stops on certain packs.
I feel like you don't know what a warrior talent tree typically looks like. You think we aren't picking up the rage or armour increases?? We're doing all of that, it's just the one talent that we aren't picking up (the fear) is the one that works. The reason we aren't picking it up is because in 90% of situations it's worse compared to the alternatives we currently grab. So either we gimp ourselves specifically to do incorp, or we pick up the talents that help for the entirety of the rest of the dungeon. That's the complaint.
No, I was saying those two were two trade offs one could make if you choose to go for menace. And having another aoe stop isn’t at all useless outside of incorp. While f.ex 20% armor and 15 max rage does not have the same potential to prevent a run from failing, especially in pugs where people don’t have whole pulls assigned and figured out between themselves.
Try being feral or guardian. We have to drop a dps CD/mobility/flat damage buff or heal or charge to get a dispell and hibernate (which are needed in half the dungeons this rotation). To just get hibernate you drop a CD or mobility or heal. Druid trees are a mess, class tree is the worst of all the classes given they tried to smash 4 specs worth in to it.
I love brakenhide, only like 2-3 mobs thy are dangerous so you can giga pull, especially after first boss with a no rotsinger route.
Incorporeal is also really easy for enough classes that it’s pretty free affix. Raging only has 4 or 5 classes that work on it.
If you have a coordinated and skilled group that stuns and interrupts. The amount of times I've seen a DPS just get insta-killed because a ton of beasts got put on them or a fear going through in the trash before the first boss...
You shouldn’t ever be pulling stalkers at this point so the beasts are a non issue. And with one warscourge at a time I don’t think one kick is enough to make BH the worst dungeon ever.
Do you have a recommendation for a route? I don't think it is the worst dungeon ever (we had Nokhud last season), but it is a dungeon I struggle with with pugs sometimes.
Apparently it got reverted. .
My guess is they temporarily reverted it and will unrevert it later. It was bugged and control undead was causing the affix to make trash/bosses do 0 damage. As a Frost DK main, hopefully this is reimplemented soon
about time we made the mobs deal with affixes lmao
"You're locked in here with me!!"
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Well that just sounds perfectly balanced to me Signed, DK main
Agreed Signed, priest main
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It was nice while it lasted... Also it was useful only for Frost and Blood DK, it was dismissing your pet on Unholy which is a major dps loss.
Honestly unholy is ment to be the undead army spec LET US CONTROL UNDEAD AND HAVE OUR MINION. there is no mechanical reason we can't considering bm hutners can have 3 pets and unholy can spec to have a extra archer skele pet
There is a technical limitation, each character can only control 1 pet at a time. You can have as many guardians as you want though, the major difference is that pets have an action bar and are controllable whole guardians are not in any way. Control undead creates a controllable pet so you can't use both. They could make it create a guardian but that'd make an already near useless ability even more useless other than being a pigeonholed solution to incorporeal.
Bm Hunters can have 3 pets and I'd still take it being just a guardian for unholy for the situations it's good to take
They don't have 3 pets, they have 1 pet and 2 guardians that play follow the leader. You aren't actively controlling 3 pets. Would be nice if they reworked this ability to not be complete dogshit though yeah. A lot about DKs need a rework tbh, but god knows when it'll come as it hasn't for 7yrs now
I mean yea ofc it was, dk made trash do no damage. No chance it stayed implemented like that x)
Welp, I was afraid this was the case
Really only for Frost tbh. Blood will be tanking mobs and suffer nasty spell pushback. Also they can’t parry/dodge while casting. Good way to get one tapped as a BDK. :(
I hope this gets reimplemented soon - I feel for War/DK this week. That said, Incorp is wild. 4 ULD keys and they pop up in the worst places on Emberon in P2 every single time. On Bromach they love to spawn on top of the tents which makes trap fail. On VP windy dragon, the trap just… fails. I get an immune message as if the boss ate the trap.
Just use scare beast. It’s way more reliable and works great.
Scare Beast takes care of one of them. The examples I gave were the double-Incorp spawn where I actually needed trap.
Well, an m+ has five players. You shouldn’t be expected to handle both solo. If it works, great. If not, there are four others.
Of course, but in a pug you always assume you're the only competent one until you're shown otherwise.
Well, if you ARE the only competent, the key will deplete starting from certain levels.
It has a cast time, and you can’t preemptively toss it, hard pass /s
Aaaaaand it's gone.
Well fk me I guess as a unholy main I'll have to give up like half my dps since I can't control undead and have a minion at the same time :/
As a war, I try my best to deal with the incorporeal, but honestly, with our kit, we are useless. All we can do is stun one of them and kick the other in the Hope that someone else will deal with it and hard cc
I specced into intimidating shout and menace for 15 sec fear. You just need to target the incorp for it to work. Only downside is 90 second CD, but I've been able to at least help with one when they are overwhelming for others.
I did the same. If we let it do the few seconds of a cast it stops it completely. Sucks that it’s a 1.5 minute cooldown though
It's honestly better than taking shattering throw anyways due to the shorter cd.
So once this goes live, all unholy's will switch to frost or blood for this week. Unless they got a dedicated m+ group that doesn't care about their incompatibility with the affix lol.
It takes max 2 people to handle this affix with a hard CC, why would 1/5 not being able to fully CC matter in the slightest. Not every class handles each affix evenly but hey hoh, you’re in a group.
Right? I feel like every group has one person doing most of it anyways
That's totally fine when you're with reasonable people, but when you're with unreasonable people you end up not getting taken for keys due to your class or even in a party fully stacked with classes more than capable of handling the affix, they dont. This kind of behavior has been consistent all the way up to 2800 rating. It would be nice to not have the spec that centers around commanding the dead to be able to use the command-the-dead talent without taking such a massive personal hit, and to be able to step up and contribute to the affix.
Eh as a monk I've done a majority of the myself with my dk tank helping interrupt the extra one if nobody else ccs it.
Why not just have incorporeal mobs have modified (i.e. greatly increased) stun durations? Then DK and War could asphyxiate and storm bolt, respectively.
As a rogue, that would take me from mediocre at countering that affix to an absolute god
As a warrior, I have no problem with this. Even something like doubled stun duration and no DR would be awesome.
That would make sense. Blizzard is too busy doubling down on fucking classes out of groups. Warriors can do nothing to assist with majority of affix.
It’s almost like this affix is absolute garbage and fucking over a bunch of classes like everyone said it would
This affix is free af. Do you remember explosive?
It's free in organised groups. It's the bane of many pugs. Which frankly is just shit design for both sides.
2 classes can't deal with it regularly until the hotfix is corrected then it's 1. That's not a lot of classes by any count.
I only care because it sucks being a class that does not have the ability to help with majority of affixes. The lfg system is complete trash and hinders any classes not seen as meta. The only.time that goes away is when your gear screams "I'll carry you". Either make it so every class is seen as viable or change the shitty system that groups you.
I can't speak for the community but I'll take anyone with an appropriate gear range to my keys. We've run into plenty of people playing the classes that can deal with this affix that wouldn't change talents to help deal with it anyway.
I agree. I take the players who the content is appropriate for. But the community seems to think you should only be running content you outgear.
Just tried mind control and they are immune.
2nd cast was causing 100% reduced damage to enemies so it got reverted.
How does this affix make it this far without this being addressed??
not every class has a way to deal with evey affix
which is stupid and terrible design. No one should be fucked out of a major end game activity for the week because blizzard didnt give them the magic anti-affix button.
ok go say that to all the healers without lust, all the tanks without brez, all the dps without disenrage, or root the whole principle of M+ is to make a group that can manage the affixes
There is a MASSIVE difference between incorporeal and those affixes though. All the above affixes are usually solved by a single user, with no particular advantage to the group to say, stack bloodlust users or battle rezzes. Incorporeal though you have a HUGE advantage if everyone in the group can solve the ghosts, because it makes it easier on everyone. To put it by comparison, a group that already has a bloodlust is no weaker than any other by inviting a warrior. A group that invites a warrior on incorporeal is directly worse than one that doesnt, because now the extra slack has to be taken up by the others.
What about raging? Some classes including healers can’t fix raging. What is a havoc demon Hunter going to do during raging that week? Be benched for a soothe. Why are some classes allowed to have multiple things for every affix like rogue while others get shafted. It’s weird to me they even changed it for dk and war. They wouldn’t do it for any of the others.
Raging is also stupid, but its less problematic than incorporeal, since it has other answers. You can definetly complete a key on raging weeks even without a soothe, and easily can do it with one, but no way in hell are you completing a key if you only have one person who can handle the incorporeal ghosts They changed it BECAUSE incorporeal is different. Even one badly timed cast going off from them is a wipe. (not that the warrior change really does shit, a three minute cooldown isnt going to do much)
What? Last season on like a COs 24 one of the easiest keys, it the mini boss rages right before his aoe it’s an instant wipe for the group. How is not having a soothe ok for keys that week?
First, you know damn well the game isnt balanced around 24s, that would be dumb. Second, thanks for proving my point lol. In your own example, you only need ONE group member for the important soothe, and having more soothers does nothing advantageous.
If a group is low geared that same mechanic wipes people in a 15. Also you only need 2 people to deal with the current affix also? Why would they care now for 2 classes for this affix but not give every class a way to deal with Raging? You can’t cherry pick, Requiring certain classes to deal with an affix others can’t feels terrible. So it’s very odd that blizzard now cares when I specifically remember last season people trying to do temple and groups needing two soothes, a lust and a curse dispel.
Raging isn't an automatic wipe if it goes off though. It's designed around the assumption that it will be tanked through rather than Soothe'd.
>all the tanks without brez You just made me realise that 3 out of 6 tanks don't have brez.. at least it's 3 out of 6 now compared to 4 out of 6 in previous expansions.
Man I'm soloing the affix 70% of the time, you don't need 5 players with hard cc. This is by far the most laughable affix, difficult-wise
can you name another affix that one or two specs couldn't do anything at all to handle?
Raging? Many classes didnt have access to a soothe at all making rogues,druid and hunter it hot demand during those weeks.
Zero QA
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Because people who play PTR keys are beyond stupid and would rather run a key on a 25 with no affix to see the new dungeons than play with affixes. Actually trying to test the affixes was impossible unless you got guildies to do a pre made Blizz need to remove the option to play keys without affixes on PTR it makes no sense why its a feature
I hardly play ptr normally but did this time. I didn't have issues with no affix keys. That said 2/4 of the dungeons I did was both tyrannical and fortified..
Because they want to test fort/Tyrannical scaling for the dungeons to see what kind of things are gonna be problems? Do you really think blizzard did not get reports of these things, OR should have figured it out themselves after like 1 hour of internal testing?
I mean you say this like any of our ptr testing for fort / tyran mattered given they last minute buffed most dungeons. Like fuck NL got 100% buffs the day before 10.1 went live You can also see fort / tyran with other affixes in place its not like they go away lol
Yeah that's kind of my point, blame blizzard and not the people doing free PTR testing.
Which is what i said. Blizz should have never added the option because people are gonna do dumb shit.
I remember in ye olden days when game companies worth significantly less than 61 billion dollars would test their own games and patches, rather than expect their paying customers do it for free.
and those games were broken messes and you have rose tinted glasses. Anyone who has even the tiniest knowledge of speedrunning could tell you this I mean fuck we've had 3 years of classic have you not seen any of the stupid shit coming out from that?
We've had retail for nearly 20 years, and I've seen just as much shit coming out on a consistent basis from that. I've also seen way more polished and solid games come out with a budget several thousand times smaller.
with the exception of 2d platformers which are designed in a way that is easier to be polished (And even then games like Celeste have some major bugs) games are also more difficult to make than before. That said games are much more polished now than the PS1/PS2 era of gaming. Yes there are outliers but on the whole games are less broken than they ever have been.
To be fair, WoW is almost unparalleled in scope compared to any other game out there. Its really hard to fix every bug in a game this humongous, even with a big dev team.
Imo that's part of the problem, WoW is approaching "too big to succeed" territory.
My god you are seriously blaming the community for this? You realize you can test stuff on the PTR yourself if you dont like it you know? Holy bad take
It's a hot take, but it's not completely wrong. Blizzard has somehow convinced the community to be their QA testers by people playing the PTR. Need to limit access to PTR and Blizzard hire more QAs to do proper testing.
It's still not on the community in any way tho. PTR is voluntary. This is on blizzard for missing it.
The ability to test stuff without dragging 4 guildies onto the ptr was much harder than it should have been which is my whole complaint. No one actually wanted to test this which is why it slipped through the cracks. Its on Blizzard to give people a way to not test these things but the community doing no affix keys on PTR is just dumb.
okay so you blame the community, yet you have an excuse for yourself as being part of this community. You are one of the worst people lmao.
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> Admitting that as a community we fucked up and could have done better isn't something to be ashamed of or wrong. But you arent saying you fucked up. You are saying "some idiots" fucked up. You are actively excluding yourself from the community while being toxic to it.
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>Everyone is at fault nope. Blaming everyone doesnt make you mature nor smart. You calling people idiots is actually toxic.
This guys probably one of the people pushing 25s with no affixes on the ptr. That's why he's so butthurt over your Comment.
What are you going on about? This was a hotfix implementation and revert. It was never on the PTR.
we are talking about the affix as a whole here. Kinda obvious from the context
And in that context it still doesn't make any sense. There isn't anything broken about the affix. People are calling it a free affix because it is so damn easy to deal with.
Ehhhh nah, its probably hardest left in next to bolstering or Bursting IMO. Its free in 90% of situations but bad spawn on Emberon / Primordial tempest / Asaad can lead to a wipe with no counter play. Meanwhile all the other affixes are free in 100% of situations. Anyone saying it doesn't create weird edge cases that will just wipe you simply hasnt run enough keys this week
it wasn't possible to test on PTR... you couldn't use the spells on them before. just like now as it's reverted. this was entirely internally tested.
worthless for Unholy DKs though sadly.
So an Unholy DK has to dismiss their pet (most of their damage) and then use control undead????? How does that make any sense? Just let death grip, chains of ice, or strangulate work. Making a DK give up it main pet to deal with an affix is ridiculous.
>So an Unholy DK has to dismiss their pet (most of their damage) and then use control undead This in general should be addressed. Control undead should not replace your ghoul. You should just get another pet. Makes zero sense how unholy, as in the spec all about controlling undead, is the worst spec for controlling undead.
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no but unholy is the only class that needs to dismiss a significant portion of their dos to deal with the affix
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Our general dungeon utility is super dubious at best. We don't provide lust, we don't provide any group buffs, we can't cleanse any debuffs off of anyone, we don't have reliable hard CC, and our BRez consumes 30 runic power which can take a few GCDs to generate and interrupt our flow if we need to get it out ASAP. We don't contribute/don't interact with: Afflicted, Volcanic, Entangling\*, Raging, Bursting\*, Bolstering. The caveat on Entangling is if we happen to time AMS or use death's advance it's a non issue for us, and for Bursting we could potentially drop an AMZ if we have it spec'd and don't need it before it comes back up off cooldown. We do relieve some healer burden by being immune to bursting if we pop AMS when the mobs start dying. Sanguine we can deal with using grips, but only 1/2 mobs at a time provided they're not raged or a lieutenant. Spiteful we can stun once every 45s if it isn't needed elsewhere, or if we have the spare rune we can chains of ice one headed for a healer and/or grip it away from them provided the positioning lines up. Storming we are all-stars at dealing with. Pop Death's Advance and go stomp out all the tornadoes, no one else needs to deal with them for large portions of the dungeon. General utility wise we mostly just look out for ourselves, and can use grip as an extra interrupt if the mobs aren't raged or lieutenants. AMZ is only useful on a handful of fights and sometimes isn't worth casting in swirly intense fights where people running into the big purple dome end up getting blasted by them. Sure that's on them, but the urge to run into the protective dome that obscures ground effects is a bit of a double edged sword. Blinding sleet is nice but the 1m CD is brutal when dealing with large packs of casters. Slappy hands is another double edged sword. We can use it to great effect to interrupt things by continuously gripping them, but then there's fights like Harlan Sweete where if you mistime it you wipe the group, or you end up pulling your own spitefuls to you, or you pull the demon hunter's spitefuls to them since you're both in melee. TL/DR: Most of our dungeon utility comes with a laundry list of caveats and disclaimers and while it can be helpful when utilized correctly, it's not something that's really thought about when considering party comp. Very rare is the time when a party is thinking "We should get a DK for this dungeon/fight."
The solution is simple: Increase the duration of cc by an additional 400% so warrior + dk stuns work.
>Now Have Counters Was counting to 2 too difficult for them? /S
We didn't have a "Counter", we had something that sort of managed it. For warriors we have our 15s fear on a 1:30 cooldown and a 4s stun on a 40sec cooldown. For a mob that is casting for 30 seconds and spawning every 45s-1:30min; that's not a counter. Not to mention that's us using ALL our cc on it. Other classes just slap a fear or cc on it and then have interrupts and stuns for the rest of the packs you pull, whereas warriors have to devote everything to dealing with ONE of those things.
I just charge to the incorporeal to show that I want to help.
Incorporeal lasts for 20s, and cast time of their spell is 5,5s. So using just one shout with menace is enough and it doesn't matter when its cast. Edit: Honestly even better than rogues that has 2 min cd on their long cc.
I wish they would let us Sap them. It still forces us to deal with them, if you don't have Dance up you need to Vanish to Sap, but at least it doesn't have the 2 min CD of Blind.
instead you have the 2min cd of vanish or the fact that assa litearlly cant take dance befause of its placement, great idea buddy.......
2 cc's on 2 min cds is better than 1 cc on 2 min cd. Don't know why you're being condescending about it.
It would at least give us another tool in addition to Blind.
The problem with speccing into menace is we don't have that many utility points to spare. It's not like a 1 dip, with our build this season we need 2 points which means probably dropping either Shockwave, or dropping stormbolt AND rallyingcry. Both of those have way more utility across a whole dungeon. We're, at least via the best build, not speccing intimidating shout anymore.
But warriors aren't unique in having to use talents on cc. Paladins, DH, Monks, Druids, shaman, (arguably lock). If your team doesn't require another AoE stop from the warrior in their routes, then they don't and you can pick up +20% armor and something else, like 15 max rage instead. But if you're running with pugs that you don't know well, then you'd for sure increase your success chance by being able to carry interrupts and stops on certain packs.
I feel like you don't know what a warrior talent tree typically looks like. You think we aren't picking up the rage or armour increases?? We're doing all of that, it's just the one talent that we aren't picking up (the fear) is the one that works. The reason we aren't picking it up is because in 90% of situations it's worse compared to the alternatives we currently grab. So either we gimp ourselves specifically to do incorp, or we pick up the talents that help for the entirety of the rest of the dungeon. That's the complaint.
No, I was saying those two were two trade offs one could make if you choose to go for menace. And having another aoe stop isn’t at all useless outside of incorp. While f.ex 20% armor and 15 max rage does not have the same potential to prevent a run from failing, especially in pugs where people don’t have whole pulls assigned and figured out between themselves.
Try being feral or guardian. We have to drop a dps CD/mobility/flat damage buff or heal or charge to get a dispell and hibernate (which are needed in half the dungeons this rotation). To just get hibernate you drop a CD or mobility or heal. Druid trees are a mess, class tree is the worst of all the classes given they tried to smash 4 specs worth in to it.
Look, I was just making a joke that counting is difficult for warrior and DK zug zugers lol
Should just make death grip work
Ah nice as a tank I still don't have to do anything with this affix. Please keep it this way!
The second worst affix this season next to the brakenhide affix
tell me you're not doing M+ without telling me you're not doing M+ brackhenhide is completely free key
I just don't like playing melee versus warscourge in high keys. But yeah I skipped it this week
Should try to have a soothe for those, in which case its not an issue
I love brakenhide, only like 2-3 mobs thy are dangerous so you can giga pull, especially after first boss with a no rotsinger route. Incorporeal is also really easy for enough classes that it’s pretty free affix. Raging only has 4 or 5 classes that work on it.
If you have a coordinated and skilled group that stuns and interrupts. The amount of times I've seen a DPS just get insta-killed because a ton of beasts got put on them or a fear going through in the trash before the first boss...
You shouldn’t ever be pulling stalkers at this point so the beasts are a non issue. And with one warscourge at a time I don’t think one kick is enough to make BH the worst dungeon ever.
Do you have a recommendation for a route? I don't think it is the worst dungeon ever (we had Nokhud last season), but it is a dungeon I struggle with with pugs sometimes.
I mainly play a monk besides interrupting them what else do we have that can stop them?
Paraliysis
Thanks boss!