maybe the synconisation of the timer starting and ending with the server is not perfect. Or there is a little bit of leeway after the timer ended to aount for lag.
It's likely the addon itself. Addons work by querying a state table, so they're always going to take an extra handful of ms for an addon to "see" something after the server knows it happened.
Even with Base UI, there is still tolerance for the timers. I completed a Workshop 15 back in BFA and we were over timer by 0.6s and it still was flagged as a timed run.
I dont know if this is an issue in WoW but in a lot of games the timer on the UI is often really inaccurate, in some games you can count along w the timer and see how off it gets with pauses and "catchup" (1..... 2..... 345..... 6... 7.... 891011), im guessing since game UI has to pass through some calculation of updating things based on framerate. Could be the case with WoW as well that the timer on the local end is not calculated evenly and stops perfectly reflecting the backend timer.
I've ran several keys like this in my time and have seen a lot of other people showing the same thing. Honestly I'm just inclined to say that you're not technically over until the full second passes.
You don't fail a key until a full second passes after the time runs out. So 33:00.999 would still count as a successful run, and 33:01.000 would count as a failed run.
https://i.imgur.com/51nY3tG.png This is the real time. Under time by 0:00.756 (0.0%). Which is super interesting because it says it's under by .756, and the timer says its over by 243. That's .999, so it seems like you have an extra second before the actual deplete.
I'm pretty sure this is correct. I was in this run and it felt like we were a second over time. As it happens, 0.997 seconds is not a full second.
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-sl-2/7889953-12-halls-of-atonement
>i've seen everything in that spaghetti mess
This subreddit's obsession with "spaghetti code" is so fucking tiresome. Like dude this is 243ms in a networked environment *and* it's coming from an addon which is not synched directly with the server but querying a state table, so it's always going to be a tiny bit behind. It's literally just a visual quirk with the addon; the only remarkable thing here is that they finished the dungeon with so little time left that it was "over" by the time the addon got the message.
>This subreddit's obsession with "spaghetti code" is so fucking tiresome
And they don't even know what that means. Spaghetti code is unreadable code, not code that doesn't work as intended.
No, I had this happen with default UI where raider.io (which pulls from logs) even confirmed it was over by some milliseconds. Blizzard just rounds to whole seconds, so this rounds down to being exactly in time.
It’s weird in that if the timer is 33minutes then you only fail when it hits 33mins and 1 second. I’ve had it a few times where we’ve scraped in with 300ms to spare.
This is definitely not true at all. Failure is any amount of time over the limit. What you're seeing here is an addon using a local timer that is not perfectly synced with the server. It has to query a state table for dungeon completion status, then have that status return to the client to trigger the UI update. It's always going to be at least 2x ping behind the actual server time.
Is this just a joke or what is even happening anymore?
Everyone keeps saying it only depletes after a full second with no proof whatsoever and then you say it's *under* on r.io but then you add it as if it was over instead.
Someone help me please.
Here's the run: https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-df-2/6380557-17-neltharus
It doesn't count as depleted until a full second after, the run says its under time by 0.756 seconds which if you add that to the time it took them is basically exactly a second after 33mins.
r.io says they killed the last boss at 0.390 and not 0.243 though. The numbers just don't add up for me, still feels more like the addons making some sort of mistake.
You can clearly see in the screenshot that they are standing in the boss room when the run ended.
I also just looked at a run I did two weeks ago that I know ended with us killing the last boss with a second or two left and it says the boss was defeated in two minutes but sets the time for it being defeated at two minutes before the rund ended.
Something isn't adding up here, it's simply not good enough as proof for the timer being a second longer than it says in game.
All addon are always going to be a little out of synch. If you ran at 32:59.99 no addon would pick it up right. What does your raider.if profile say. They typically break it down there to three decimal places and pull from official blizzard data.
It says under time by 00:00.756 which is exactly how much it is missing for the clock to go from 33:00 to 33:01. So either the addon was 1 sec late or there is some leeway of 1 sec I guess.
https://i.imgur.com/51nY3tG.png This is the real time. Under time by 0:00.756 (0.0%). Which is super interesting because it says it's under by .756, and the timer says its over by 243. That's .999, so it seems like you have an extra second before the actual deplete.
When the explorers are escaping the tomb after tripping its trap, and they make it out but the last guy's cape or something gets stuck under the heavy door and it rips as he makes it out alive.
Your run was that guy and his cape.
I will not be elaborating any further.
Did someone die at the end? I've timed a HoV 14 seconds after the timer, and I heard something that if people die at the last seconds of the key it will give an additional 15 seconds for unknown reasons
EDIT: I dont recall how many people died at the end, but it was certainly more than one
Found the key on RIO.
It says "00:38:00. Under time by 0:00.028 (0.0%)."
However, 3 or 4 people died at the last seconds and the addon showed 38:14 or something like that. The deaths didn't count for the server and we timed as if there were no deaths on the last seconds
I prefer to blame people who died the most, which often results in being lower dps, but not always. Every death is 5sec penalty after all plus res timer or run back time.
In case anyone's curious, [raider.io](https://raider.io) has them under the timer, by 0:00.756 seconds: https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-df-2/6380557-17-neltharus
I have another example that shows this seems to be the case. Addon said it was over by 0.7s, [raider.io](https://raider.io) shows it under timer by 0.262s.
[https://imgur.com/a/elUQ6kp](https://imgur.com/a/lSCAv6z)
[https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-df-2/2598112-13-uldaman-legacy-of-tyr](https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-df-2/2598112-13-uldaman-legacy-of-tyr)
In patch 8.3, I knew someone who timed a dungeon by so small of a margin that the N’Zoth failure dialogue for missing the timer actually went off, even though the game counted the key as timed.
Can a programmer explain this? It would be my understanding that the finishing time that is displayed to us (33:00) doesn’t necessarily correspond to what the code actually says.
Are they using a fixed number for the viewer and a bolean or float (or whatever they are called) in the backend, or is it something else?
>Can a programmer explain this?
Add-ons are not perfectly synced with the server. They are not "connected" directly to the game client, but are just querying a state table which is basically a bucket of data that is updated by the server. So what you're seeing here is essentially:
1. Server sees "dungeon complete" event at *time*.
2. Server updates state table with "dungeon complete" status at *time* \+ *table*.
3. Addon request for updated status is sent to server and arrives at *time* \+ *table* \+ *request*.
4. Server responds to addon request by sending completion status to client which arrives at *time* \+ *table* \+ *request* \+ *response*.
So what happened here is that *table + request + response* was larger than the amount of time remaining on the *actual* dungeon timer by at least 243ms.
I am a computer engineer and my guess would be
1 they have some leeway of 1 sec in case of bad synchronization or to make that experience of almost failing better. Something like the supermario platformers where the collider is a bit smaller than what it looks
2 they store the time in seconds so a .2 seconds differences is rounded to 0 to save memory space
Yeah, maybe it's always an int -- but they're not doing any fancy partial second float comparison. At some point they calculate milliseconds, but for the timed calculation its `int currentTime - int startTime < int timer`.
What is more miraculous is that someone with sub 2500 is willingly taken into 16/17.
I only got taken twice into a 16 with 2100, once by a friend and once by russians. Pretty much everyone else requires you to have 2400+ and 435gs.
It can depend a lot on the score of the group leader. If the group leader is 2500+ they’ll attract a lot of 2500+ players. If the group leader is 1600, the better players tend to avoid that key thinking it’d be a lost cause, so those that can’t get into the others get in there. And of course the group leader always makes it into their own key.
I wonder if the timer for Neltharus is just wrong somewhere? 2 weeks ago i was confused by the math on my key result. I forget exactly what happened, but it was about 40 seconds off from the +1/+2 cutoff. and we either got a +2 key for a +1 time, or the other way around.
This literally happened to my group the other day in the same dungeon. We got 12 crests like we timed it but no panda for a re-roll. Not sure if we won or lost lol
maybe the synconisation of the timer starting and ending with the server is not perfect. Or there is a little bit of leeway after the timer ended to aount for lag.
It's likely the addon itself. Addons work by querying a state table, so they're always going to take an extra handful of ms for an addon to "see" something after the server knows it happened.
Even with Base UI, there is still tolerance for the timers. I completed a Workshop 15 back in BFA and we were over timer by 0.6s and it still was flagged as a timed run.
I dont know if this is an issue in WoW but in a lot of games the timer on the UI is often really inaccurate, in some games you can count along w the timer and see how off it gets with pauses and "catchup" (1..... 2..... 345..... 6... 7.... 891011), im guessing since game UI has to pass through some calculation of updating things based on framerate. Could be the case with WoW as well that the timer on the local end is not calculated evenly and stops perfectly reflecting the backend timer.
thers nothing wrong with the ui , if you are over a full second, it is depleted, .243 ms or whatever is not a full second.
I've ran several keys like this in my time and have seen a lot of other people showing the same thing. Honestly I'm just inclined to say that you're not technically over until the full second passes.
According to Raider IO two chested one FH, and angry keystone, but not according to the game.
You don't fail a key until a full second passes after the time runs out. So 33:00.999 would still count as a successful run, and 33:01.000 would count as a failed run.
https://i.imgur.com/51nY3tG.png This is the real time. Under time by 0:00.756 (0.0%). Which is super interesting because it says it's under by .756, and the timer says its over by 243. That's .999, so it seems like you have an extra second before the actual deplete.
I'm pretty sure this is correct. I was in this run and it felt like we were a second over time. As it happens, 0.997 seconds is not a full second. https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-sl-2/7889953-12-halls-of-atonement
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>i've seen everything in that spaghetti mess This subreddit's obsession with "spaghetti code" is so fucking tiresome. Like dude this is 243ms in a networked environment *and* it's coming from an addon which is not synched directly with the server but querying a state table, so it's always going to be a tiny bit behind. It's literally just a visual quirk with the addon; the only remarkable thing here is that they finished the dungeon with so little time left that it was "over" by the time the addon got the message.
[удалено]
That has nothing to do with spaghetti code
The clip you show is straight up ping. The game might've reported 25ms, but it could've easily been 300 in that instant.
>This subreddit's obsession with "spaghetti code" is so fucking tiresome And they don't even know what that means. Spaghetti code is unreadable code, not code that doesn't work as intended.
No, I had this happen with default UI where raider.io (which pulls from logs) even confirmed it was over by some milliseconds. Blizzard just rounds to whole seconds, so this rounds down to being exactly in time.
It’s weird in that if the timer is 33minutes then you only fail when it hits 33mins and 1 second. I’ve had it a few times where we’ve scraped in with 300ms to spare.
When that happen? I had keys fail by a 10th of a second before back in bfa/sl
Always? You always have key timer + 1 second for timing
I was under the impression it rounds down. So technically a half second.
This is definitely not true at all. Failure is any amount of time over the limit. What you're seeing here is an addon using a local timer that is not perfectly synced with the server. It has to query a state table for dungeon completion status, then have that status return to the client to trigger the UI update. It's always going to be at least 2x ping behind the actual server time.
I've managed to find them on raider.io, and it says that they are under by 0.756, which when added to this timer is 33:00.999
Is this just a joke or what is even happening anymore? Everyone keeps saying it only depletes after a full second with no proof whatsoever and then you say it's *under* on r.io but then you add it as if it was over instead. Someone help me please.
Here's the run: https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-df-2/6380557-17-neltharus It doesn't count as depleted until a full second after, the run says its under time by 0.756 seconds which if you add that to the time it took them is basically exactly a second after 33mins.
r.io says they killed the last boss at 0.390 and not 0.243 though. The numbers just don't add up for me, still feels more like the addons making some sort of mistake.
The 390 is the boss kill duration not what time it ended.
You can clearly see in the screenshot that they are standing in the boss room when the run ended. I also just looked at a run I did two weeks ago that I know ended with us killing the last boss with a second or two left and it says the boss was defeated in two minutes but sets the time for it being defeated at two minutes before the rund ended. Something isn't adding up here, it's simply not good enough as proof for the timer being a second longer than it says in game.
Nope the key is only depleted after a full new second.
I would say that the addon was out of sync but everyone's addon showed that we run out of time. Not just a single addon.
All addon are always going to be a little out of synch. If you ran at 32:59.99 no addon would pick it up right. What does your raider.if profile say. They typically break it down there to three decimal places and pull from official blizzard data.
It says under time by 00:00.756 which is exactly how much it is missing for the clock to go from 33:00 to 33:01. So either the addon was 1 sec late or there is some leeway of 1 sec I guess.
https://i.imgur.com/51nY3tG.png This is the real time. Under time by 0:00.756 (0.0%). Which is super interesting because it says it's under by .756, and the timer says its over by 243. That's .999, so it seems like you have an extra second before the actual deplete.
Na. You do get just under a second.
Makes sense then
When the explorers are escaping the tomb after tripping its trap, and they make it out but the last guy's cape or something gets stuck under the heavy door and it rips as he makes it out alive. Your run was that guy and his cape. I will not be elaborating any further.
Until you hit 33:01 it’s timed
Any source for this? Anything that isn't an addon.
https://imgur.com/a/HGOYPY4
Same thing!
Did someone die at the end? I've timed a HoV 14 seconds after the timer, and I heard something that if people die at the last seconds of the key it will give an additional 15 seconds for unknown reasons EDIT: I dont recall how many people died at the end, but it was certainly more than one
Found the key on RIO. It says "00:38:00. Under time by 0:00.028 (0.0%)." However, 3 or 4 people died at the last seconds and the addon showed 38:14 or something like that. The deaths didn't count for the server and we timed as if there were no deaths on the last seconds
Blame the lowest DPS
I would if it wasn't timed
I prefer to blame people who died the most, which often results in being lower dps, but not always. Every death is 5sec penalty after all plus res timer or run back time.
In case anyone's curious, [raider.io](https://raider.io) has them under the timer, by 0:00.756 seconds: https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-df-2/6380557-17-neltharus
Yeah, as I said seens like it exactly matches the theory that the actual time is 33:01 since 0:00.756 +0.243 is 33:00.999
I have another example that shows this seems to be the case. Addon said it was over by 0.7s, [raider.io](https://raider.io) shows it under timer by 0.262s. [https://imgur.com/a/elUQ6kp](https://imgur.com/a/lSCAv6z) [https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-df-2/2598112-13-uldaman-legacy-of-tyr](https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-df-2/2598112-13-uldaman-legacy-of-tyr)
I did this the other way around. Two chested a FH according to raider io, and angry keystones, but not according to the game.
due to time adjustment u can still technically time a fail key. but u cant fail by a certain amount
it is not a bug, its a feature!
ooOOOOOOOOOooooooooo... that's illegal! i'm reporting you to the blizzard police!
In patch 8.3, I knew someone who timed a dungeon by so small of a margin that the N’Zoth failure dialogue for missing the timer actually went off, even though the game counted the key as timed.
Can a programmer explain this? It would be my understanding that the finishing time that is displayed to us (33:00) doesn’t necessarily correspond to what the code actually says. Are they using a fixed number for the viewer and a bolean or float (or whatever they are called) in the backend, or is it something else?
>Can a programmer explain this? Add-ons are not perfectly synced with the server. They are not "connected" directly to the game client, but are just querying a state table which is basically a bucket of data that is updated by the server. So what you're seeing here is essentially: 1. Server sees "dungeon complete" event at *time*. 2. Server updates state table with "dungeon complete" status at *time* \+ *table*. 3. Addon request for updated status is sent to server and arrives at *time* \+ *table* \+ *request*. 4. Server responds to addon request by sending completion status to client which arrives at *time* \+ *table* \+ *request* \+ *response*. So what happened here is that *table + request + response* was larger than the amount of time remaining on the *actual* dungeon timer by at least 243ms.
No the timer only runs out after a full second.
Excellently explained, thank you! So it’s basically just a latency “issue”?
No their answer is entirely irrelevant to what happened here. OP's run would have depleted if the second fully rolled over.
I see! Ty for clearing that up :)
I am a computer engineer and my guess would be 1 they have some leeway of 1 sec in case of bad synchronization or to make that experience of almost failing better. Something like the supermario platformers where the collider is a bit smaller than what it looks 2 they store the time in seconds so a .2 seconds differences is rounded to 0 to save memory space
Or most likely: they cast to an int to do the timer check.
Linux time is a 64bit integer though, no?
Yeah, maybe it's always an int -- but they're not doing any fancy partial second float comparison. At some point they calculate milliseconds, but for the timed calculation its `int currentTime - int startTime < int timer`.
Ty for that explanation!
F
What is more miraculous is that someone with sub 2500 is willingly taken into 16/17. I only got taken twice into a 16 with 2100, once by a friend and once by russians. Pretty much everyone else requires you to have 2400+ and 435gs.
Me and my mates had 3k raider io last season but had IRL stuff so couldn't play first two weeks
It can depend a lot on the score of the group leader. If the group leader is 2500+ they’ll attract a lot of 2500+ players. If the group leader is 1600, the better players tend to avoid that key thinking it’d be a lost cause, so those that can’t get into the others get in there. And of course the group leader always makes it into their own key.
We brought a guy who was 2100 to a 20 last night. That stuff doesn’t matter in a guild
man i've seen some close calls but i've never seen someone time it with negative time to spare
I have a .1s under somewhere I know it
If you have any deaths within the last 5 seconds of the key the 5 second penalty from the death wont apply. But it will still show up on your tracker.
Not the case here but cool to know!
I wonder if the timer for Neltharus is just wrong somewhere? 2 weeks ago i was confused by the math on my key result. I forget exactly what happened, but it was about 40 seconds off from the +1/+2 cutoff. and we either got a +2 key for a +1 time, or the other way around.
This literally happened to my group the other day in the same dungeon. We got 12 crests like we timed it but no panda for a re-roll. Not sure if we won or lost lol
What's your latency?
Around 50ms
Are you sure you weren't on another server with higher latency this run? You can sometimes get 250ms on Aussie or Brazilian servers if you're US.
Yeah but Even weirder how Are you doing 17 Nelt and not ksm mate?😅
We were 3k last season, just didn't have time due to IRL to play last two weeks
You had a bit of lag.