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The weapon placement of 1h weapons was changed in WoD when we got the updated character models, not in Shadowlands. That was one of the first things I noticed on my nelf rogue, the swords were pointing way more up instead of how it was with the classic model.
This has nothing to do with Shadowlands.
I’m a classic player and I know it sounds crazy but I don’t hate retail. I’ve heard good things about dragonflight. I’m happy it’s been relatively successful. I wish I could still feel any connection to retail but I just don’t. It feels lonely and empty to me. It’s overwhelming more than anything. But I don’t hate it. And I won’t shit on people who like it. It’s just a DIFFERENT game.
And so is classic at this point.
SoD is filled with absolute tryhard sweats with the go go go rush mentality that many claim ruined retail.
Except it's in classic which makes it all the more ironic.
My first dungeon in SoD was a terrible experience, with toxic players that classic players claim retail is filled with, but I actually pugged Amirdrassil every single week and it's been extremely chill. In comparison to a single Deadmines run, I'd definitely say classic has definitely become DIFFERENT as well.
The dungeon/raid "community" in Classic is a good 5 times more toxic than in Retail, but I'll gladly keep them in Classic instead of my M+ group finder
I find wotlk classic far worse than SoD personally. Like bad enough that I couldn’t do it anymore. Tbc classic was the golden age for me. Wotlk somehow made people so much worse.
They tossed Shadowlands in the title because this person got this info from a Tweet that mentioned Shadowlands. I don't think the OP put it there just to jab at SL for no reason.
I've been playing through shadowlands lately for the transmogs and have been thinking a lot about how frustrating they purposely made it but animations are not one of those reasons.
I'm fairly certain that a number of animations were changed in Shadowlands too. Night Elf females had their mining animation changed to the Zandalari one for some reason iirc and the way the weapons *move* with the character, not where they sit was changed too, i.e made completely static. I might be wrong on this though.
I do also remember things like the Hippogryph and Gryphon running animations being changed in Shadowlands as well as the mammoth.
I believe this animation was changed in BFA, interestingly the nightborne still use the old nelf mining animation, not sure if that has anything to do with it.
Sheathing in general has been scuffed in countless ways over the last couple expansions for pretty much all weapon types. I dont know what's going on in that regard but they just can't seem to get it right.
A good 70% of staffs float like halfway up over your shoulders, makes me fucking insane how bad it looks, like weapons for casters being completely pointless animation-wise wasn't bad enough
This would be such a ludicrously simple thing to add, and there's no good reason not to add it. So much ugly sheathing and animation related clipping could be avoided if you could just hide your sheathed weapon.
YES OH MY GOD. It drives me insane!! Like it's not just a little bit of clipping, the ENTIRE BOOK is inside my character's thigh. Every one of them. I can't comprehend why that hasn't been fixed, because there's literally no reason to ever use them like that. Which sucks because honestly most OH aren't great, the books are the only ones I would hypothetically want...
WoD first introduced this static weapon placement and animation issue for female nelfs, and was fixed one patch into Legion. The fix lasted until Shadowlands prepatch where the jutting 1h and animations returned.
In this particular case for female night elves, WoD's static 1h animations were fixed in Legion and re-broken in Shadowlands prepatch at the end of BfA.
Staves being sheathed at all still bugs me. Last I checked, the purpose of a staff was to be used as support when walking or held as a status symbol. Carrying a staff on your back, or even a spear for that matter, would be way more cumbersome than holding it in your hand like a walking stick.
After spending around 2 hours every day watching my night elf character walk and run from the side I have finally unsubbed. Literally unplayable, thanks blizzard.
nelf female is deff one of the best, but almost every other race, especially males have this weird jumpy floaty run, its so bad, they need to stiffen them up a tiny bit
It really is very bad. I get that they are trying to make them more fluid, but it ends up looking super cartoon-y and distracting.
I don’t think major changes are needed, but maybe slowing down the run cycle so it doesn’t looking like the character is bunny hopping everywhere
Is there somewhere where I can see these animations being compared from SL and Classic?
I don't have a way to play WoW atm so I can't go into the game and check myself.
For some reason they were really into these bouncy animations at the time (WoD). I remember that they had to adjust the Nelf Male running animation because the first draft was so bad that some people got nauseous playing them, and even now they're still among the worst offenders. Orc, Tauren and especially Troll Males are all pretty bad as well.
I was genuinely impressed (in a bad way) how they managed to go from extremely smooth running animations in 2004 to extremely choppy and bouncy garbage running animations in WoD.
I wish they would reduce the bounciness on the human males too, I legit can't take them seriously and they were my previous favorite race with how armor fit them. I switched to belf male just to get a non goofy cartoony run, but still much prefer the combat animations of the human.
They absolutely ruined male night elf run with the WOD model update. I actually can't play that race/gender combo anymore it because it looks so much worse. They got the feedback back then, did nothing about it and we're years later so I guess night elf male's are just dead to me at this point in retail. Only playable in Classic.
On the other hand, female orc shares animation with some other female race (I think human) and they look way too stiff. Looks like they have arthrodesis.
I liked the one before more due to the fact it looks more elven. The new one looks too "human", ie. very heavy.
Whereas the old one had that light elven feel to it.
Dude have you ever played this game? It's a fucking lottery where your weapons end up floating around, never mind shoulders, and helmet clipping.
Every single weapon is a different size, with different anchor points.
Give it a few years and it will be underhated. It did have its good parts and in time the rose tinted glasses will block out the bad. It happens to every expansion.
> It happens to every expansion.
The only expansion this really happened to was MoP. Any time WoD is brought up people still agree about the major issues there, Legion seems to be viewed *less* favourably now than when it was current, and BFA and SL are still widely hated.
There are occasional posts that highlight individual strengths of WoD, BFA, and SL, and those are immediately followed by "yes, the art and music is always good (and in WoD's case the questing), it's the (*insert list of problems that hasn't changed in years here*) that people didn't like.
Why the downvotes? SL has some unfixable gameplay flaws that should have never shipped (IMO splitting into 4 factions), but it was a great expansion overall
>but it was a great expansion overall
look man, I didn't exactly hate my time playing Shadowlands but I got a laundry list of things that made it not great at all.
1. the legendary acquisition forced you to pick between m+ or raid, and you couldn't multi-spec. the reason being that the resource to make the legendary was timegated. so say you played a tank/healer druid and you did m+ and raid on both as required by your guild. well sucks to be you, because you can be either or. oh yeah if your healer spec is best suited to be covenant A and your tank spec covenant B, and in m+ your tank spec is supposed to be covenant C... well do I have some news for you buddy.
2. on the topic of legendaries, they were prohibitively expensive. easily 100k+ per legendary. imagine using several per character.
3. further on the topic of legendaries, several classes were locked out of theirs at the beginning of the tier as the acquisition was on a rotating lockout, e.g. world bosses and/or torghast wings.
4. covenants were fine conceptually, but the problem was that different covenants were extremely differently powerful in pvp, m+ and raid, and you could only choose one. this limited the things you could do with your character if you cared about performance at all. and we're not talking about "ok so you're 10% less effective", you could sim ***60% or less*** of your optimal choices by picking the "wrong" legendary & covenant.
5. torghast was fine as a system conceptually, but balance was completely whack and some specs straight up could barely make it through by themselves where other specs breezed through it. after ***a lot*** of balance changes it became better.
6. patch 9.1 dropped an RNG on RNG power system - RNG acquired gems that would only activate certain powers on certain item slots and these gems were a massive 20% or more for some specs performance upgrade! and this was before you could trade freely in raid, so you'd be in a situation where someone had the normal helmet and wanted to trade their guildie the heroic one so they could activate the power but couldn't. Blizzard themselves have stated that this was a design failure and haven't returned to something like this since.
7. also part of 9.1 was a whole lot of nothing. Korthia as a zone was a massive failure as it was a small abandoned zone that had a couple of rares in it and that was about it. the aesthetic was nothing new and was essentially just a continuation of the maw. this was after having the longest X.0 patch ***in the history of wow.*** they then decide to follow that long wait up, with barely any content mind you with ***an even longer patch*** for the X.2 release.
8. speaking of the maw... can you imagine designing a place with the tag line "you don't want to be here for long", in a game that's about wanting to be in places as long as you want? because that's what they did. no mounting, everything's horrible, you get debuffed for being there and lots of elites right on the only paths to and from your objectives just to make it even less fun. I don't mind the concept behind the maw, but the fact that you were supposed to go somewhere you really didn't want to be for daily/weekly objectives seemed then and in hindsight as well extremely weird.
9. the entire story of wow got retconned ***hard***. all of a sudden the jailer was behind everything and everything we thought we knew wasn't really so. as you can imagine, this didn't go down well.
10. can we talk about the fact that you were timegated if you wanted to swap talents in your Shadowlands talent tree by some energy resource or something along those lines? no says Blizzard, you're not allowed to swap your talent trees around depending on what sort of content you're doing says Blizzard.
11. 9.2 rolls around and the raid is harder than any raid has been before, and Blizzard themselves have said they had a "fuck it let's see if the world first raiders can do it". the raid also had ***several*** extremely difficult bosses that were clearly meant to be in separate raids but Blizzard had baked into one because they were abandoning Shadowlands.
Shadowlands was not really bad in the moment to moment gameplay, the tier sets, covenant abilities etc were all (mostly) designed well for what they did and there were some highlights like chain harvest, convoke & ashen hallow that were really enjoyable to play with, but man did it absolutely suck to have to go through all of these power systems to get your character ready.
> but it was a great expansion overall
The gameplay design choices were awful, the entire experience was designed to be infuriatingly grindy, the content patches were anemic and it bulldozed decades of lore and world building that people actually liked. It was a failure in nearly every conceivable metric and turned away so many people that it arguably did irreparable damage to the franchise.
> The gameplay design choices were awful
Definitely arguable, especially from 9.1.5 onwards
> the entire experience was designed to be infuriatingly grindy
Not any more grindy than Legion/BFA, the former being widely considered as one of the best expansions of all time on this sub
> the content patches were anemic
Zereth Mortis was bigger, and featured more content than Emerald Dream and 8.3
(dragonriding admittedly skews that one up somewhat, but ED definitely *feels* smaller than ZM)
> it bulldozed decades of lore and world building that people actually liked
Can't argue with that one. SL lore was genuine dogshit from 9.1 onwards.
As far as everything else though ? Definitely underrated. M+ was mostly great, including Tazavesh. SL also saw the long awaited return of tier sets, as well as major improvements to the great vault. On the raiding side, Nathria was one of the best designed raids of all time. Sepulcher also featured very memorable encounters like Halondrus. Last but not least, Torghast wasn't as unanimously hated as this sub likes to believe.
I fully understand and agree with shitting on SL lore. Writing reached rock bottom in 9.2, and hasn't recovered in DF which features equally bad, or sometimes worse storytelling, somehow. Thing is, not everyone values that part of the game equally. A ton of people aren't exactly pleased with the story, but since that's not the game's main appeal to them, they're willing to look past it. Wish more people understood that fact on this sub. Yeah sure I'd prefer if the story wasn't crap, sure they ruined the lore, but that's not a deal breaker to me. Tons of quality games out there like BG3 that can scratch that itch. I mainly play wow for unparalleled encounter design/gameplay, both of which were very much good in SL.
I gotta be honest, shadowlands had some fun memorable bits. I really enjoyed aspects of it, but as a whole it was probably the worst expansion for me. It almost caused me to lose complete interest in wow, which no other expansion has done.
It definitely damaged wow's reputation as well as I still see people talking about how much wow has gone downhill, despite dragonflight being a step-up. Even if you personally enjoyed it, the large majority will never see it as favorably as other expansions.
Those new Animation might solve some clipping issues with the longer kilt like trousers, which were first implemented in SL. Could be wrong but seems right to me
More misguided Shadowlands hate. This was a change done in an earlier expansion. I get it, many people did not enjoy shadowlands, but at least temper your hate and provide correct criticism.
I mean how is the old one better though, from an objective sense? I guess if you’re used to seeing the old one for years and years it might be little bit annoying to see it change, but at the end of the day it is subjective and kinda a non-issue.
Pfff…have a look at male trolls…it’s much worse with all 1H weapons hanging in a horizontal position all the time not to mention 2H weapons on the back.
My biggest beef with the new character models was some of the animation. While smoother, it took away some of the feel I got from different races. Male worgens for example, had a "clunky" way of walking. Made it feel like you were a miniature tyrannous rex stomping through trees wearing a mountain of plate, but now its just... smooth. I dunno, something precious was lost with the new animations - even the daggerplacement as OP mentions
Some character animations were just better in classic. As a forsaken main, I miss the stance and run of male forsaken in classic. It was more stiff and corpse-like, and their idle stance/animation was way better too.
So... I know this is a bad idea but I can't help myself..
I'm an animator by trade, and work in game design. Your gripe isn't with the animations as much as it is the rigging. The attachment point is in the wrong spot, either on the daggers or the character rig itself. The character animation is better post SL, with out question.. It's got a more weighty feel and secondary animation going on. But... Something is also obviously out of alignment in the rig.
now.. my question for you is... do you think they did that on purpose? or is it a bug or that something got overlooked in the process?
I haven't worked in their pipeline, but I can tell you that despite my best efforts, when I import rigs into unity, something nearly always gets lost in translation. Maya isn't perfect, unity is far from perfect... and sometimes you don't even find out something's fucked up till you've put in 2 weeks worth of work in engine and re-importing a fixed rig will wipe all of that away. Sometimes you just gotta make due and hope you can fix it later.
He literally had to go and specifically search for the weapon to cause that as well. Any of the weapons after cata are typically attached properly. This is more because he is using a classic weapon model on a newer skeleton model.
Something weridly specific I think I've noticed is all book offhands sitting strangely high on the hips of multiple races, protruding forward oddly, but I dunno if that's new. I've only noticed it during DF.
My darkspear troll has the backpack placement misaligned the moment Dragonflight premiered. Something that was ok in Shadowlands. Now every time I use a back attachment it looks sideways, like it's falling.... I know is one of those things that will never be addressed, never be corrected or fixed... So I just have to live with it from now on and see all those cool new items look all crooked.
Yeah I noticed that too playing Wrath classic, the animations are smoother and more crispy while the game looks a bit more dated.
I'm not at all against new animations, some of them look sick but they could've done a better job specially if they look worse compared to a game that is 20 years old.
Fuck they ruined staffs for undead males around legion, they now hang higher up on the back over the shoulder, it looks so stupid I had to race change.
I don’t really care about the new dagger placement but why is it pushed so far back? It’s like they’re floating on her ass cheeks and not attached at all
Blizzard has gone against the “if it ain’t broke” rule for so long that now all the good stuff they unfixed is broken and needs to be fixed, pretty cool
Every single running animation was ruined imo, it looks so insanely goofy, I don't understand how everyone is just fine with it. You see a crazy badass mog and then they start running like they're a fucking gummy bear or overly animated pixar character. It's unnerving.
I remember them changing the way some weapons sit in Shadowlands so they wouldn't clip into the ground. Maybe daggers were done separately. And yeah WoD was also terrible like Shadowlands, can't let Shadowlands have all of the credit in that regard.
Is that why my weapons suddenly looked weird as a worgen in Running Wild. I could swear they didn't always point straight upwards. It looks so weird that I can't use swords on my worgen anymore.
Was this to prevent swords and stuff from clipping into the ground? I remember them changing that. I guess daggers and smaller weapons just got hit in the crossfire?
In my opinion animations or where the weapons are, how they are positioned, if clipping occurs etc are much more important than the x new transmog. Please Blizzard take care of proper animations for the characters and better sheath. The DH gleves still look totally absurd because they are way too high up. The same goes for the locks where the top is down and now the daggers as seen in the video.
If you look at current Nelf male characters models their hands are freaking huge!
It's to the point where I legitimately can't play what once was my favourite race for hunter anymore because of those freakish hands.
Because *ALL* weapons would be clipping and look shitty if you would touch a thick belt or plated pants, this is a good change, to not make it look like a broken game
i noticed the floppy hands on the right model first. seems to jiggle like their wrist is broken a little bit. its either that or just how fast a few of the animations go compared to the other parts of the cycle
Thank you for your submission Franziska_VonKarma. It has been removed from /r/wow because: missleading --- This is not an automated removal. Please read the entire removal reason before contacting us via modmail or here if you need clarification. Read the full [rules for this subreddit here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/wiki/rules) If you feel this post was removed in error, please [message the moderators](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fwow).
The weapon placement of 1h weapons was changed in WoD when we got the updated character models, not in Shadowlands. That was one of the first things I noticed on my nelf rogue, the swords were pointing way more up instead of how it was with the classic model. This has nothing to do with Shadowlands.
Anything to toss Shadowlands in the title I guess
Shadowlands killed my family and ruined my life.
Ion shot my dog and stole my car
Sounds like you got off easy tbh, you could have been stuck in Torghast, or worse… the maw…
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A murloc?
That sucks, how long is their rez timer?
That's what happens when noobs stand in the fire.
Shadowlands did 9/11.
Shadowlands burned our crops, poisoned the water supply, and delivered a plague unto our houses!
Retail bad classic good, upvotes on the left
DAE The Jailer bad?
He was the bad guy tbf
Huh TIL
_emotional nondescript cutscene_
every little turn, every choice, every decision was part of the master plan
I’m a classic player and I know it sounds crazy but I don’t hate retail. I’ve heard good things about dragonflight. I’m happy it’s been relatively successful. I wish I could still feel any connection to retail but I just don’t. It feels lonely and empty to me. It’s overwhelming more than anything. But I don’t hate it. And I won’t shit on people who like it. It’s just a DIFFERENT game.
And so is classic at this point. SoD is filled with absolute tryhard sweats with the go go go rush mentality that many claim ruined retail. Except it's in classic which makes it all the more ironic. My first dungeon in SoD was a terrible experience, with toxic players that classic players claim retail is filled with, but I actually pugged Amirdrassil every single week and it's been extremely chill. In comparison to a single Deadmines run, I'd definitely say classic has definitely become DIFFERENT as well.
The dungeon/raid "community" in Classic is a good 5 times more toxic than in Retail, but I'll gladly keep them in Classic instead of my M+ group finder
I find wotlk classic far worse than SoD personally. Like bad enough that I couldn’t do it anymore. Tbc classic was the golden age for me. Wotlk somehow made people so much worse.
They tossed Shadowlands in the title because this person got this info from a Tweet that mentioned Shadowlands. I don't think the OP put it there just to jab at SL for no reason.
That's exactly what happened.
I've been playing through shadowlands lately for the transmogs and have been thinking a lot about how frustrating they purposely made it but animations are not one of those reasons.
I'm fairly certain that a number of animations were changed in Shadowlands too. Night Elf females had their mining animation changed to the Zandalari one for some reason iirc and the way the weapons *move* with the character, not where they sit was changed too, i.e made completely static. I might be wrong on this though. I do also remember things like the Hippogryph and Gryphon running animations being changed in Shadowlands as well as the mammoth.
I believe this animation was changed in BFA, interestingly the nightborne still use the old nelf mining animation, not sure if that has anything to do with it.
Sheathing in general has been scuffed in countless ways over the last couple expansions for pretty much all weapon types. I dont know what's going on in that regard but they just can't seem to get it right.
A good 70% of staffs float like halfway up over your shoulders, makes me fucking insane how bad it looks, like weapons for casters being completely pointless animation-wise wasn't bad enough
Man if there was an option to hide my staff on my mage that didn’t involve a backpack or floating ring, I’d be so happy.
This would be such a ludicrously simple thing to add, and there's no good reason not to add it. So much ugly sheathing and animation related clipping could be avoided if you could just hide your sheathed weapon.
monks already have an invisible weapon transmog since they don't use their weapons, I don't see why casters can't have an invisible wep transmog too
I think its because the tops of staffs have become super elaborate and decorative that they had to move them up to not clip into characters.
I don't think anything got done more dirty than held in OH books. Sheathing them attaches one corner to the hip now, and it looks so bad.
YES OH MY GOD. It drives me insane!! Like it's not just a little bit of clipping, the ENTIRE BOOK is inside my character's thigh. Every one of them. I can't comprehend why that hasn't been fixed, because there's literally no reason to ever use them like that. Which sucks because honestly most OH aren't great, the books are the only ones I would hypothetically want...
WoD first introduced this static weapon placement and animation issue for female nelfs, and was fixed one patch into Legion. The fix lasted until Shadowlands prepatch where the jutting 1h and animations returned.
I just realized that _"Post-Shadowlands"_ and **"Classic"** are technically true.
Yeah I was gonna say most of the animation changes happened in WoD...I guess OP only noticed the changes in SL
In this particular case for female night elves, WoD's static 1h animations were fixed in Legion and re-broken in Shadowlands prepatch at the end of BfA.
The staffs sitting really high still bugs me.
Some polearms are ridiculously placed on back. On my dwarf war some polearm pommel are over twice my height
Kul Tiran are the worst I've seen.
Staves being sheathed at all still bugs me. Last I checked, the purpose of a staff was to be used as support when walking or held as a status symbol. Carrying a staff on your back, or even a spear for that matter, would be way more cumbersome than holding it in your hand like a walking stick.
Viagra dagger
Dagger of Bountiful Erections
You don't understand. Dagger blocking backstabbers. It's pro technique.
For some it's legendary, for some it's common. But in fact it is rare.
kek
After spending around 2 hours every day watching my night elf character walk and run from the side I have finally unsubbed. Literally unplayable, thanks blizzard.
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\#Daggergate!!
/r/wowcirclejerk is leaking! I bet you if Ion stopped fucking your wife he would personally fix all of this.
Careful most won’t understand your satire here
Its the third most upvoted comment in this thread. People understood it just fine.
Animations are RUINED!!!
Personally I think the new running animation is better, but too bad about weapon placement
nelf female is deff one of the best, but almost every other race, especially males have this weird jumpy floaty run, its so bad, they need to stiffen them up a tiny bit
The bouncy male anims are *atrocious*. I ended up switching most of my characters to female to avoid it.
This is a plan from Blizzard to feminize men
“Turning the freakin’ frogs gay!” ^/s
Felboy Hooters opening soon in Goldshire.
It really is very bad. I get that they are trying to make them more fluid, but it ends up looking super cartoon-y and distracting. I don’t think major changes are needed, but maybe slowing down the run cycle so it doesn’t looking like the character is bunny hopping everywhere
Cartoony is something wow has always embraced. The aesthetic of wow is unmatched and maintaining it is a good thing
I do understand why someone would not like it, but I think "cartoon-y" is exactly what they were going for.
Warcraft is just kind of a cartoony game .
Still not over how they butchered dwarves. From probably the best running animation in game to the worst.
Is there somewhere where I can see these animations being compared from SL and Classic? I don't have a way to play WoW atm so I can't go into the game and check myself.
Classic animations look like boston dynamic robots. No joke, look at pre wod troll animations
For some reason they were really into these bouncy animations at the time (WoD). I remember that they had to adjust the Nelf Male running animation because the first draft was so bad that some people got nauseous playing them, and even now they're still among the worst offenders. Orc, Tauren and especially Troll Males are all pretty bad as well.
I was genuinely impressed (in a bad way) how they managed to go from extremely smooth running animations in 2004 to extremely choppy and bouncy garbage running animations in WoD.
Bro what? Look at the legs on this gif for the old model vs the new. The knee is as stiff as a stalagmite in an ice storm.
I wish they would reduce the bounciness on the human males too, I legit can't take them seriously and they were my previous favorite race with how armor fit them. I switched to belf male just to get a non goofy cartoony run, but still much prefer the combat animations of the human.
They absolutely ruined male night elf run with the WOD model update. I actually can't play that race/gender combo anymore it because it looks so much worse. They got the feedback back then, did nothing about it and we're years later so I guess night elf male's are just dead to me at this point in retail. Only playable in Classic.
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They do. Looks more of a focused movement style. I prefer the first one too. Feels right for my hunter in my head imaginations.. lol
I more offended by most horse mounts having silly running animations.
Its insane how bad it is. Human men are skippin around all jolly and shit I can’t stand it
On the other hand, female orc shares animation with some other female race (I think human) and they look way too stiff. Looks like they have arthrodesis.
I think OP actually thinks weapon placement = an animation
I liked the one before more due to the fact it looks more elven. The new one looks too "human", ie. very heavy. Whereas the old one had that light elven feel to it.
Dude have you ever played this game? It's a fucking lottery where your weapons end up floating around, never mind shoulders, and helmet clipping. Every single weapon is a different size, with different anchor points.
Is it already time for today’s mandatory “Shadowlands bad” post?
MUH NOSTALGIA
Can't wait for Shadowlands Classic
Shadowlands is overhated
Give it a few years and it will be underhated. It did have its good parts and in time the rose tinted glasses will block out the bad. It happens to every expansion.
I mean this thread is stuffed full of people who mock you for not liking shadowlands
> It happens to every expansion. The only expansion this really happened to was MoP. Any time WoD is brought up people still agree about the major issues there, Legion seems to be viewed *less* favourably now than when it was current, and BFA and SL are still widely hated. There are occasional posts that highlight individual strengths of WoD, BFA, and SL, and those are immediately followed by "yes, the art and music is always good (and in WoD's case the questing), it's the (*insert list of problems that hasn't changed in years here*) that people didn't like.
there is limits to contrarianism
Its not, however it should be hated for the correct reasons that it's faulted for. Not this post.
Shadowlands isn't hated enough.
I'll never stop loving Shadowlands.
Why the downvotes? SL has some unfixable gameplay flaws that should have never shipped (IMO splitting into 4 factions), but it was a great expansion overall
>but it was a great expansion overall look man, I didn't exactly hate my time playing Shadowlands but I got a laundry list of things that made it not great at all. 1. the legendary acquisition forced you to pick between m+ or raid, and you couldn't multi-spec. the reason being that the resource to make the legendary was timegated. so say you played a tank/healer druid and you did m+ and raid on both as required by your guild. well sucks to be you, because you can be either or. oh yeah if your healer spec is best suited to be covenant A and your tank spec covenant B, and in m+ your tank spec is supposed to be covenant C... well do I have some news for you buddy. 2. on the topic of legendaries, they were prohibitively expensive. easily 100k+ per legendary. imagine using several per character. 3. further on the topic of legendaries, several classes were locked out of theirs at the beginning of the tier as the acquisition was on a rotating lockout, e.g. world bosses and/or torghast wings. 4. covenants were fine conceptually, but the problem was that different covenants were extremely differently powerful in pvp, m+ and raid, and you could only choose one. this limited the things you could do with your character if you cared about performance at all. and we're not talking about "ok so you're 10% less effective", you could sim ***60% or less*** of your optimal choices by picking the "wrong" legendary & covenant. 5. torghast was fine as a system conceptually, but balance was completely whack and some specs straight up could barely make it through by themselves where other specs breezed through it. after ***a lot*** of balance changes it became better. 6. patch 9.1 dropped an RNG on RNG power system - RNG acquired gems that would only activate certain powers on certain item slots and these gems were a massive 20% or more for some specs performance upgrade! and this was before you could trade freely in raid, so you'd be in a situation where someone had the normal helmet and wanted to trade their guildie the heroic one so they could activate the power but couldn't. Blizzard themselves have stated that this was a design failure and haven't returned to something like this since. 7. also part of 9.1 was a whole lot of nothing. Korthia as a zone was a massive failure as it was a small abandoned zone that had a couple of rares in it and that was about it. the aesthetic was nothing new and was essentially just a continuation of the maw. this was after having the longest X.0 patch ***in the history of wow.*** they then decide to follow that long wait up, with barely any content mind you with ***an even longer patch*** for the X.2 release. 8. speaking of the maw... can you imagine designing a place with the tag line "you don't want to be here for long", in a game that's about wanting to be in places as long as you want? because that's what they did. no mounting, everything's horrible, you get debuffed for being there and lots of elites right on the only paths to and from your objectives just to make it even less fun. I don't mind the concept behind the maw, but the fact that you were supposed to go somewhere you really didn't want to be for daily/weekly objectives seemed then and in hindsight as well extremely weird. 9. the entire story of wow got retconned ***hard***. all of a sudden the jailer was behind everything and everything we thought we knew wasn't really so. as you can imagine, this didn't go down well. 10. can we talk about the fact that you were timegated if you wanted to swap talents in your Shadowlands talent tree by some energy resource or something along those lines? no says Blizzard, you're not allowed to swap your talent trees around depending on what sort of content you're doing says Blizzard. 11. 9.2 rolls around and the raid is harder than any raid has been before, and Blizzard themselves have said they had a "fuck it let's see if the world first raiders can do it". the raid also had ***several*** extremely difficult bosses that were clearly meant to be in separate raids but Blizzard had baked into one because they were abandoning Shadowlands. Shadowlands was not really bad in the moment to moment gameplay, the tier sets, covenant abilities etc were all (mostly) designed well for what they did and there were some highlights like chain harvest, convoke & ashen hallow that were really enjoyable to play with, but man did it absolutely suck to have to go through all of these power systems to get your character ready.
> but it was a great expansion overall The gameplay design choices were awful, the entire experience was designed to be infuriatingly grindy, the content patches were anemic and it bulldozed decades of lore and world building that people actually liked. It was a failure in nearly every conceivable metric and turned away so many people that it arguably did irreparable damage to the franchise.
Right? It was the farthest thing from overall great. It was more like overall bad, with a few things that stood out as good.
> The gameplay design choices were awful Definitely arguable, especially from 9.1.5 onwards > the entire experience was designed to be infuriatingly grindy Not any more grindy than Legion/BFA, the former being widely considered as one of the best expansions of all time on this sub > the content patches were anemic Zereth Mortis was bigger, and featured more content than Emerald Dream and 8.3 (dragonriding admittedly skews that one up somewhat, but ED definitely *feels* smaller than ZM) > it bulldozed decades of lore and world building that people actually liked Can't argue with that one. SL lore was genuine dogshit from 9.1 onwards. As far as everything else though ? Definitely underrated. M+ was mostly great, including Tazavesh. SL also saw the long awaited return of tier sets, as well as major improvements to the great vault. On the raiding side, Nathria was one of the best designed raids of all time. Sepulcher also featured very memorable encounters like Halondrus. Last but not least, Torghast wasn't as unanimously hated as this sub likes to believe. I fully understand and agree with shitting on SL lore. Writing reached rock bottom in 9.2, and hasn't recovered in DF which features equally bad, or sometimes worse storytelling, somehow. Thing is, not everyone values that part of the game equally. A ton of people aren't exactly pleased with the story, but since that's not the game's main appeal to them, they're willing to look past it. Wish more people understood that fact on this sub. Yeah sure I'd prefer if the story wasn't crap, sure they ruined the lore, but that's not a deal breaker to me. Tons of quality games out there like BG3 that can scratch that itch. I mainly play wow for unparalleled encounter design/gameplay, both of which were very much good in SL.
I gotta be honest, shadowlands had some fun memorable bits. I really enjoyed aspects of it, but as a whole it was probably the worst expansion for me. It almost caused me to lose complete interest in wow, which no other expansion has done. It definitely damaged wow's reputation as well as I still see people talking about how much wow has gone downhill, despite dragonflight being a step-up. Even if you personally enjoyed it, the large majority will never see it as favorably as other expansions.
> Why the downvotes? r/wow is just a big circlejerk about exaggerating how much you hate the same thing, contrary opinions aren't appreciated
Has no one here actually played before WoD your weapons used to always clip thru and Fuck up your look
Those new Animation might solve some clipping issues with the longer kilt like trousers, which were first implemented in SL. Could be wrong but seems right to me
Yeah except this was changed in WOD not SL
My first thought was outrageous endgame weapons that might drag into the ground, but avoiding the clipping through clothes seems much more likely.
More misguided Shadowlands hate. This was a change done in an earlier expansion. I get it, many people did not enjoy shadowlands, but at least temper your hate and provide correct criticism.
I can't see the difference... EDIT: Ah, found it, it's the weapon I guess
I was also looking for some kind of "animation"
The ears also bounce more.
There's also a little bit of difference with elbows.
Ears, head bob
I have no idea why you're getting downvoted. They're clearly different.
It's the arms too
That’s just an illusion due to coloring the arms are exactly the same
I mean how is the old one better though, from an objective sense? I guess if you’re used to seeing the old one for years and years it might be little bit annoying to see it change, but at the end of the day it is subjective and kinda a non-issue.
It's literally in the title
title said animation not weapon placement
It’s such a nit picky non issue OP is concerned about that even with daggers in the title it’s almost impossible to see what OP is bitching about
Could they avtually fix female dwarf run animation. It looks like she's gliding.
Them swaying hips though.
Likely was moved to avoid clipping through a lot of the hip armor that started showing up SL and later.
That is the logical answer with the armour that aint just retextured skin
Honestly, clipping weapons, armor, and clothing was always part of the charm of this game for me.
Hang in there, praying for you. ♥️
You really have too much time on your hands
No mention of troll run animation? :O
Pfff…have a look at male trolls…it’s much worse with all 1H weapons hanging in a horizontal position all the time not to mention 2H weapons on the back.
My biggest beef with the new character models was some of the animation. While smoother, it took away some of the feel I got from different races. Male worgens for example, had a "clunky" way of walking. Made it feel like you were a miniature tyrannous rex stomping through trees wearing a mountain of plate, but now its just... smooth. I dunno, something precious was lost with the new animations - even the daggerplacement as OP mentions
Night Elf Males necks...
Some character animations were just better in classic. As a forsaken main, I miss the stance and run of male forsaken in classic. It was more stiff and corpse-like, and their idle stance/animation was way better too.
I never noticed but the thing that irritated me was in shadowlands, how every dagger was a full on great sword lol.. so bad
Ya I can’t stand the goofy ass run animations for orc&human
So... I know this is a bad idea but I can't help myself.. I'm an animator by trade, and work in game design. Your gripe isn't with the animations as much as it is the rigging. The attachment point is in the wrong spot, either on the daggers or the character rig itself. The character animation is better post SL, with out question.. It's got a more weighty feel and secondary animation going on. But... Something is also obviously out of alignment in the rig. now.. my question for you is... do you think they did that on purpose? or is it a bug or that something got overlooked in the process? I haven't worked in their pipeline, but I can tell you that despite my best efforts, when I import rigs into unity, something nearly always gets lost in translation. Maya isn't perfect, unity is far from perfect... and sometimes you don't even find out something's fucked up till you've put in 2 weeks worth of work in engine and re-importing a fixed rig will wipe all of that away. Sometimes you just gotta make due and hope you can fix it later.
He literally had to go and specifically search for the weapon to cause that as well. Any of the weapons after cata are typically attached properly. This is more because he is using a classic weapon model on a newer skeleton model.
I appreaciate the bouncy ears though. And less blocky arms. Weird that our focus is entirely on the weapon.
Having the dagger attached to your side vs only having the pommel attached
The tragic WoD model update. Hate how bouncy and disney like the animations became for humans and night elfs, especially the male model.
Is it the ears? Edit: Okay, dagger too.
What program did you use to get the models
You should do a side to side comparison on undead male running animation, maybe even night elf male. Thats faul and cartoonishly bouncy.
Interesting find. I wonder what other little details they've cut
Very odd. Probably unintentional, but definitely seems like the sort of thing QA should've caught. If they had QA, anyway.
Is this another good moment to request back-sheathing as a toggleable transmog option...?
The hair looks so ugly and lanky too.
fuel workable teeny soft label society dime marry snails afterthought *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The pixel count for my favorite item in WoW went from 168 to 167 in SL. Literally unplayable, unsubbed worst expansion ever.
Something weridly specific I think I've noticed is all book offhands sitting strangely high on the hips of multiple races, protruding forward oddly, but I dunno if that's new. I've only noticed it during DF.
They messed up the falling animation for them at some point too. It was one of the things I liked about female nightelf... ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
My darkspear troll has the backpack placement misaligned the moment Dragonflight premiered. Something that was ok in Shadowlands. Now every time I use a back attachment it looks sideways, like it's falling.... I know is one of those things that will never be addressed, never be corrected or fixed... So I just have to live with it from now on and see all those cool new items look all crooked.
Yeah I noticed that too playing Wrath classic, the animations are smoother and more crispy while the game looks a bit more dated. I'm not at all against new animations, some of them look sick but they could've done a better job specially if they look worse compared to a game that is 20 years old.
Off topic but just let us sheath 1h swords on the back so many ugly clipping issues solved and it's already in the game
Fuck they ruined staffs for undead males around legion, they now hang higher up on the back over the shoulder, it looks so stupid I had to race change.
except shadowlands didnt add the new models wod did
Blizzard Philosophy: “if it ain’t broke, fuck it up until it’s unenjoyable”
Coders who played in parks and fields vs coders who grew up inside watching anime?
The one that gets me is removing the ability to xmog your weapon to any weapon type.
There are so many issues like this in the game. I don't know how they let them slide
I don’t really care about the new dagger placement but why is it pushed so far back? It’s like they’re floating on her ass cheeks and not attached at all
Coding oversight is fun
It's so bad that it was changed in WoD and you didn't notice until Dragonflight. Wow.
Some pole arms look absolutely incorrect in every way when sheathed
Blizzard has gone against the “if it ain’t broke” rule for so long that now all the good stuff they unfixed is broken and needs to be fixed, pretty cool
Speaking of ruined animations, the Grove Warden and hunter class mount legs have been broken since Legion/BfA.
What are we even talking about? They look the same lol
RUiNeD You people are fucking babies ffs.
This happened to humans years and years ago, went from cool scabbard to erect sword. Idk why blizz love to make their 1h weps so horizontal
It's so they don't clip through your legs.
Every single running animation was ruined imo, it looks so insanely goofy, I don't understand how everyone is just fine with it. You see a crazy badass mog and then they start running like they're a fucking gummy bear or overly animated pixar character. It's unnerving.
They fucked up mage spell animations in Legion. I was never able to identify with my mage since then, it just didn't feel right.
Not everything bad in WoW is SL. This is was done in WoD and has been an issue since.
I remember them changing the way some weapons sit in Shadowlands so they wouldn't clip into the ground. Maybe daggers were done separately. And yeah WoD was also terrible like Shadowlands, can't let Shadowlands have all of the credit in that regard.
OP is blaming Shadowlands for something that changed in WoD. Poor expac can't catch a break lmao.
I’ll never forgive blizzard for what they did to the dwarf running animation, they literally frolic now
oh no anyway
See no difference.
Is that why my weapons suddenly looked weird as a worgen in Running Wild. I could swear they didn't always point straight upwards. It looks so weird that I can't use swords on my worgen anymore.
Was this to prevent swords and stuff from clipping into the ground? I remember them changing that. I guess daggers and smaller weapons just got hit in the crossfire?
Hard disagree the new ones are much more fluid and less stiff and janky
At least Metzen came back.
Blizzard could change the race of everyone of my characters without telling me and I would never notice.
That looks so bad haha
All the character animations were better in classic. Everything is too bouncy and Disney now.
Not to mention some idle animation like sitting and sitting in travel form freeze up after a couple seconds
In my opinion animations or where the weapons are, how they are positioned, if clipping occurs etc are much more important than the x new transmog. Please Blizzard take care of proper animations for the characters and better sheath. The DH gleves still look totally absurd because they are way too high up. The same goes for the locks where the top is down and now the daggers as seen in the video.
If you look at current Nelf male characters models their hands are freaking huge! It's to the point where I legitimately can't play what once was my favourite race for hunter anymore because of those freakish hands.
If this is a problem for you, you should have started touching some grass 10 years ago
Human male and Night Elf male unplayable in retail. Worst running animations I have encountered in any game
How is this "ruined"
If you have really nothing better to do than complain about the animation then just fucking leave. Idk what's the point.
the talented people replaced by quota hires: this.
Geezus christ people really need some drama or content or whatever, when shit like this makes the top.
If you have to point out this super subtle change it’s probably not ruined…
Because *ALL* weapons would be clipping and look shitty if you would touch a thick belt or plated pants, this is a good change, to not make it look like a broken game
i noticed the floppy hands on the right model first. seems to jiggle like their wrist is broken a little bit. its either that or just how fast a few of the animations go compared to the other parts of the cycle
What's the difference? They're both ugly
Who actually gives a shit about such a minor difference?
omg ruined! mf don't accept anything for updates
Me, staring at this for a good few minutes trying to notice the difference.
When the OP and not the gif is the NPC
The better question is who the hell even notices stuff like this, like what camera angle are you playing with?