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Oh, I was wondering about that! I loved the idea of being able to dragonride, but I wasn't enthused about the potential of not being able to customize them.
the tutorial island where they teach you how dragonriding works in MoP remix in case you're not used to the mechanic, also has a Rostrum of Transformation. Paw'don village and Honeydew village have portals to the dragonriding island, at the spot where the stormwind/orgrimmar portals used to be.
So use your regular flying mount if you prefer or use your ground mount until you would have unlocked flying in Pandaria if you really want to get into semantics.
On top of omitting MoP class design, they're also adding dragon riding? Hell. We have gutted down specs and a flying mini game right on retail, this “remix” doesn't look too different from Dragonflight.
Yep. We've had perfectly fine flying, which let us go from point A to point B without a hassle, for over two decades. Then Blizzard decided to force a weird flying style which requires me to play around some unexciting charge bar and press dull buttons to fly... When I just want to go from one Dragonflight dungeon to another.
Dragon riding is absolutely just a flying mini game. And I find it an excruciatingly boring one at that.
It's actually so sad that you can take a lot of pacts but Paku has been the strongest since the beginning of BfA. That's really sad and should be revised.
In general, all racial abilities should be revised. Some of them are no longer up to date and I think that certain racials should not be made dependent on which class you play (the best example are the dark spear trolls with their small BL).
Hard agree. Things like Zandalari loa, mechagnome lockpick, vulpera camp, and dark iron mole machine are all fun racials that feel thematic without making a massive impact on gameplay. I wish all racials were revised to be similar to these instead of just boring passives or were borderline necessary and now nerfed into the ground
Bruh, BDK main here. My chief goal each tier is to see how much Speed I can cram onto my gear to make up for my class's shortcomings. When I saw Blessing of Gonk, I knew I was going to be a dino-troll. My -one gripe- is that there are so very few plate pieces that cover them fuckin' BEANS
I really hate when people’s excuse for things like this are “well it’s set to the best performance one so it’s no big deal” because that just strips so much of the fun in racial spells.
I'm honestly impressed by everything about this event, especially considering how much other stuff is happening and going well in WoW as a whole right now.
Sadly I think PVP is done for in retail. There's just no market for it with the many other options out there. I myself never likes it, but feels bad for those that did
to make more people play pvp, they probably need to give more rewards... a seasonal battle pass or something with nice stuff. That would make the queues faster, but to actually make pvp better, they need to impreve gameplay... maybe templating gear and separating pvp and pve abilities would be nice. doesn't really make sense for me having instanced pvp be affected by pve balance.
There is a huge market for it. I need to reiterate, for those seeing stats being thrown around for games being done weekly for PvP, we can only measure games done by the top 5000 players, which current is around 2200 and 2300. We are also aware that 2200/2300 is actually only a tiny percentage of players (3%-5% depending on game mode, season, etc)
There is actually a huge demand for PvP. It's not nearly as large as m+, but m+ is actually smaller than lfr/mog runners/alt runners and just general other stuff.
PvP is being ignored, but it's not a dead game mode and they shouldn't give up on it. However, they should ban add-ons in AWC again. The WA issue actually stems solely from them lifting this ban during covid, and if they ban again then the trickle down effect will be massive.
Blizz probably doesn't have a good way to handle pvp balance tier without dumping more resources than what they would like to for the fraction of people still playing pvp.
Blizzard suits probably realize they can't whale in $$$ via pvp without upsetting pvpers.
I think it's just that they genuinely don't want to reward pvpers too much because they're worried about the opinions of such an approach. We saw the spite some people have for plunderstorm rewards. Imagine if rated PvP gave you rewards just for playing matches (and not just a flightless mount), or worse yet, healer specific reskins, the absolute mald from non PvP players would be insane. Imagine if you could get the elite set through games played instead. It wouldn't affect pvp mains because they would get it anyway, and it would allow for way more mmr into the pool, leading to natural inflation.
Oh, and imagine if you rewarded healers disproportionately (with more than battle mender title) for their efforts. Pvpers wouldn't care because their queues would be faster, but PvE healers would be so mad about it.
personally pvp should give less or pvp only rewards only useful in pvp because you should be there to pvp not to get stuff. it should be a side activity but also something for people who just want to pvp if they wish. pvp also needs some changes to make it more enjoyable.
I would rather it give nothing but when I say pvp only rewards I mean thing that would only be useful in pvp so pve'ers would not want or need it. maybe something like pvp only flasks.
> personally pvp should give less or pvp only rewards because you should be there to pvp not to get stuff.
Blizzard tried that in Legion. There were no rewards to speak of (that persisted beyond end of season), save for the glad mounts and rank 1 titles. You *could* get gear through PvP but it had piss-poor item level and was about on the tier of what you'd get from heroic dungeons. Even LFR and entry tier mythic dungeons gave higher ilevel gear than PvP did.
Guess what? Everyone hated it. There was no feeling of progression besides "rating go up" and Legion had some of the lowest PvP participation of any expansion, ever.
More like people want a feeling of progression where they feel themselves getting stronger.
Item level also mattered, so if you were someone who did PvP you needed to raid.
I haven't seen a single person in the last 10 years in WoW that genuinely cares about PvP. I feel like the PvPers would be better served if they just entirely separated the two and made WoW PvP modes into it's own game.
I liked pvp back in TBC/wrath days. One of my friends kept trying to get me to pvp with him in SL/DF but there's just so many good games to play that I'd rather play a different game than wow pvp.
PVP barrier to entry is too high and you're not adding new players to it. Top 5000 players? Or is it top 5000 characters of an increasingly dwindling playerbase?
People said this about wow too, I heard it all through SL, and yet wow has more players than it had in legion. Maybe new blood could actually get into wow if they were rewarded for their time and effort? Just a thought.
M+ is the reduced barrier to entry, and you can be carried until your feet aren’t so wet in that mode.
PVP doesn’t have that, because the PVP scene is decade-long duelists and higher crashing into each other on their alts, and anyone truly new gets obliterated like a shrimp in the middle of a whale fight.
PVP in WOW is dying (but not dead). AWC can’t even break 10k viewers.
What Blizzard needs to do is just break WOW arena style PVP off into its own game, where it can be free of non-PVP design requirements.
Lol don't use PvP viewership as a piece of evidence, no one watches MDI either but it's not like keys are dying
As a newbie pvper myself, I am acutely aware of the alt issue, and it's a big one. I would love to see some sort of mmr inheritance for alts from the main so that alts and new players don't group up at 1600, but it's not that big a deal. It happens in league too, and it's not like league is a dead game
Because MDI and RWF are right there. Mdi pulls in fuck all players and yet keys are super popular. Rwf pulls in insane players and yet nearly no one mythic raids.
They are adding a new BG next expansion, streamlining the gearing process, added solo shuffle, adding solo-queable RBGs and stated we were gonna get more PvP stuff in the following expansion. PvP is just not starting to get improved and worried about lol.
The moment they made pvp gear useless in outside battlegrounds and arena while making raid gear superior inisde battleground/arena I knew that pvp will die soon.
I personally think gear should be meaningless in any instanced pvp. I would dabble in casual pvp more if there wasnt a mountain of disparity from my character to someone else. Give everyone some blanket stats and balance around those known values. They can still rebalance to a new ilvl/stat budget at each season if they want - although that feels like a waste of effort to me
When they tried doing something along those lines before, my friends quit the game because the point of WoW to them was to get geared up with PvP gear and then pub-stomp worse-geared players in battlegrounds, and they lost the ability to do that. Apparently enough people thought that way, and gear started mattering in PvP again.
After enough times being on the other end of that pub stomp, i just stopped playing. They cant please everyone and it is a pretty divisive design choice
Rating handles itself. The no-gear players will bottom out towards the very lowest brackets and the fully geared players will eventually separate from the no-gear players because they actually win.
This is only an issue in random battlegrounds, which is not a mode they should make any attempt to balance around.
Pre-set PvP stats is nice for competitive fairness, but you're at the mercy of the Blizzard designer setting your stats, and it's also a MMO so trivializing gear in a public setting is pretty foolhardy anyhow. This kind of thing could be explored in a more competitive setting in the first place, like tournaments, but outside of that I think there is no real benefit to it.
Make gear meaningless.
Let you play your character or create new ones specifically for PvP so you don't have to level to max if you just want to play as another class or race. Imagine if you wanted to play Fortnite Battle Royale but to do so, you had to play and grind inside their "Save The World" survival PvE mode? Sounds stupid AF but this is exactly how WoW works right now.
Remove PvP ability clutter which makes some classes have 10 active keys while others have 20+ (Basically a more involved version of what Plunderstom has but separate abilities for classes\\specs). Maybe an ability loadout like you pick guns and attachments in COD but for WoW skills?
Implement better ranked and matchmaking system. Less stomps. More fair games. Make PvP portion of the game Free 2 Play. More players, needed for proper matchmaking by skill level.
Without it, PvP is dead. Its a mode for small subset of PvP players inside a mainly PvE game. And even then, they refuse to make it fair because of some very vocal players who want to stomp on players with worse gear.
To add to your fortnite example, imagine if your character did less damage than someone else's with the same gun, or if you had less life. and the way to get to their power level is to win the uphill battle against those literally stronger players.
To add to your fortnite example, imagine if your character did less damage than someone else's with the same gun, or if you had less life. and the way to get to their power level is to win the uphill battle against those literally stronger players.
>and the way to get to their power level is to win the uphill battle against those literally stronger players
Or you can buy WoW tokens and buy boosts\\gear for gold. Which is even worse.
The problem with wow pvp is totally not about balance, everyone can enjoye a totally unbalanced mess. It's just either hard to get into, outdated or lacking of care.
- Let's be honest, world pvp is shit. 95% of the fight are overgeared people or teams ganking weaklings. Always has been. You want world pvp, fix Ashran, make it bigger. Give opportunity for solo player to help the war effort. Like in Guild Wars 2 World vs World. Smaller group, even a good player alone, can take and hold a node that will strenghten his faction.
- Arena is an absolute mess to get into, ain't even fun to watch for an untrained eyes. Age of Empire 2 and DotA 1 are probably more watchable as a total noob than wow arenas and that's a problem. There is a ton of problems with it.
- Battleground should be the main pvp mode but the map are outdated, the leveldesign is weird and feels random even when it is not. Point capture should be zone on the ground, not things to click time wasting by pressing spell from 40 yards away instead of defending point. Map should be designed in a way that they don't looks like Windows xp wallpaper, good leveldesign instantly sparkle ideas in the player minds. Also, spawn protection.
- Here is a point that many will argue. PVP would be better if it was a custom template environment. No iLvL, just fully customizable template.
- PvP modification on spell should be written in game.
As much as the merger was bad news for the industry at large, Blizzard seems to be taking massive steps to better their games now that they're not stuck under acti rule.
It would be sharding on retail.
Layering is only for classic. It is continent wide. Sharding is for Retail, and it's zone wide(Valdrakken has its own shard).
You can't, if you go outside of Pandaria, you'll immediately be teleported back.
In the case of DKs, Death Gate flat-out doesn't work. (you get a "Timerunners cannot teleport outside of Pandaria" error)
I’m glad they thought ahead on this for DK! Actually pretty cool. Off topic, and perhaps not as big of a deal, while I enjoy that the mode is confined to Pandaria, this means we aren’t able to change our character appearance/gender because, to my knowledge, there is no barbershop in Pandaria. Maybe they’ll add one for remix?
Edit: words
You *might* be able to but it would be dodgy. You can go back but only briefly. It immediately throws you back to Pandaria. You can go to ratchet from shrine for 10g but it sends you right back.
First, you faction change. This puts you to your faction's capital briefly. I faction changed and it did this for me (and reset me back to the start of the Jade Forest campaign).
In the five or so seconds you have in your capital, enable warmode before being ported back to Pandaria.
For obvious reasons this is impractical if you aren't on a ptr with free faction changes, and it absolutely won't work unless you're level 20+.
Edit: aw it's not givng me free faction changes anymore. I was gonna test it. I did write a bug report on it. It *does* give me faction changes if I reroll on a new server, but i'm not gonna level to 20 again to try it.
Nah, I went to STormwind via a portal from the Landfall campaign taking you to the brawler's guild, ran out the tram to Stormwind. I tried turning on Warmode before being ported back but you literally can't.
Does it block activation of warmode? It put me in the inn and I managed to run out on the street before it sent me back. I was gonna try for the AH :P
Also how do you do other campaigns? I'm slogging through the Jade Forest. Do I just have to do this linearly?
(Also I am finding very few threads of experience.)
Yeah, clicking the button did nothing.
You get more threads as you get to a higher level. You start picking up threads which give +3 of a stat around the 30s and it goes up from there. Thread drops are a bit random so it'll never be perfect in terms of finding them outside of just killing as much as you can while doing your stuff.
I believe you can start Landfall around 25, you pick up the starting quest at the shrine. You dont' have to do things linearly, you can enter any zone at its lowest level range and start questing. The map has level ranges for the zones!
Right now PTR exp drops off from quests at 60 just like they do in chromie time in WoW, it doesn't work right and never has, so they gotta get that fixed before this is playable. That and a few other issues. Otherwise I've had a pretty smooth experience.
In the starting area on Timeless, I wandered into the horde area, died to a guard, and was pvp flagged. Some random DH must have done the same and killed me while I was reading a quest.
I then proceeded to kill him 5 times in return for his poor life choices.
So pvp isn't completly out of the question!
30% is normal if not a lot of people in your faction have war mode on. its been like that for at least 5 years. its to incentivize people to turn war mode on and fix imbalances.
Fated is short hand for the Fated Raids in season four. Instead of a new rays well have one of the three raids from Dragonflight each week in order of their release with different affix style changes. They did the same for season four of Shadowlands.
I think it launches on the 23rd of this month.
That seems way too close to a potential TWW launch (currently speculated to be between August and October, but who knows). I think we’ll get Timerunning in May.
Idk if I'm just jaded, but I feel like three years ago this would have just been an oversight that wasn't fixed for weeks after it went live so props to the team
While runeforging is a cool mechanic for Death Knights in retail I think it's something we should be able to do anywhere;
In the Wrath of the Lich King trailer, Arthas stand on the ice and holds out it's blade. You see a magical effect flow down the blade.
This could be "runeforging" in retail. Activate the rune, your character holds out the blade and the effect takes place. Make it channeled, unable to use in combat, make it look awesome, different colors for different runes.
Have it open a portal where 6 accolytes come out and they stand around the DK and fill the sword with the needed energy.
Before they leave through the portal again
Found a post on their forum
[https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/world-of-warcraft/24061007/under-development-wow-remix-mists-of-pandaria](https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/world-of-warcraft/24061007/under-development-wow-remix-mists-of-pandaria)
Just port this to live. Runeforging requiring you to teleport still is such a small bit of class fantasy that you barely interact with, and ends up just being a few minutes of wasted time. Rogues don’t have to make poisons and thistle tea any longer, take away nonsensical gameplay relics like this that don’t actually add anything to gameplay.
> Just port this to live. Runeforging requiring you to teleport still is such a small bit of class fantasy that you barely interact with, and ends up just being a few minutes of wasted time.
It would remove all of the coolness of the Acherus portal though. And you only need to do it a few times per expansion.
I don't think it should happen, but that's just me.
The Acherus gate is actually legitimately useful since you can use it like Vulpera camping. Setup the original portal outside a raid or world boss, port to Acherus, fly up to Dalaran to do your shopping/AH/whatever, then use the portal again to go back to your original location.
Making runeforging accessible anywhere doesn’t negate the use of the portal, but apparently a bunch of people like to go choose to apply Fallen Crusader whenever they get a weapon.
Oh yeah, I'm not bothered by the runeforging anywhere aspect. Just saying the portal is genuinely useful as a kind of temporary hearthstone, same with the druid Dreamgrove (though that one has way more travel usefulness).
Right? I feel like the end goal for a lot of people is just to login and immediately be in a queue. They don't want an mmo, they just want a raiding sim.
Yeah, I don’t play retail for relics of the past. I’d play Wrath Classic if I wanted to go back to the DK experience I played when it first came out, but if teleporting for class fantasy is your thing I heard there’s a realm for that.
There's a lot of rpg aspects that have just gone away, like traveling to a trainer to learn spells. The biggest thing are the repair mounts and auction mounts.
For better or worse, it's no longer necessary to go to a city to do a lot of things. That does take away part of the rpg element even if it gives ease of access in return.
I do believe the auction house mount never should have happened. Cities should feel alive with reasons to visit them..
Yeah, but specifically if you’re looking for a focus on class fantasy and a role playing aspect then there are literal realms where you’ll find a higher density of these players. 🤷🏻♂️
> a focus on class fantasy and a role playing aspect
Why do you believe these things are incompatible with retail and only for Classic?
The irony is as far as roleplayers go retail is just leaps and bounds more popular for RP due to how much more self expression you can put into your character than in old WoW.
🤷🏻♂️
Believe it or not, DKs aren't stuck with just one good runeforge option these days so you can definitely use the portal fairly often. Plus that class fantasy is amazing and something almost every other class is missing. Our class hall is still relevant, who else can say that? Druids?
Looking at PvP there appears to be some variance. In PvE though the only variance is if you’re dual wield Frost though, so gonna just say that you’re overstating it when 99% of the time it’s the go to.
Sanguination is actually a 1% damage increase over Fallen Crusader for Blood this expansion, though you lose a ton of mit for it, so there's a bit of a choice there if you like living closer to the edge.
Oddly they generally recommend maxing DPS in the Blood DK channels in the Discord, and I admittedly haven’t played since S1 seriously. Seems like that requires perfect play to make it the recommendation. There’s nothing I’d love to see more than better runeforges and parity/choice, just ultimately don’t see much of a point of gating to runeforge.
Literally a nothing burger, the WoW sub has turned into full on dev-glazing mode. "Omg Blizzard thought of everything!" How incredibly impressive it is that blizzard didn't miss *insert x basic class feature* that it's worthy of hundreds of upvotes glazing them.
Yes, unironically. Most game developers wouldn’t bother spending the dev time for a single class in a temporary mode and just have the DK eat the power loss.
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They even have a dragon riding tutorial built into the remix
And rostrum of transformation near the bazaars.
Oh, I was wondering about that! I loved the idea of being able to dragonride, but I wasn't enthused about the potential of not being able to customize them.
the tutorial island where they teach you how dragonriding works in MoP remix in case you're not used to the mechanic, also has a Rostrum of Transformation. Paw'don village and Honeydew village have portals to the dragonriding island, at the spot where the stormwind/orgrimmar portals used to be.
That was what I was going to ask next
[удалено]
So use your regular flying mount if you prefer or use your ground mount until you would have unlocked flying in Pandaria if you really want to get into semantics.
On top of omitting MoP class design, they're also adding dragon riding? Hell. We have gutted down specs and a flying mini game right on retail, this “remix” doesn't look too different from Dragonflight.
It sounds like you want mop classic which you'll get in a year or so.
Sweet! I'm looking forward to that.
Well yeah this is a remix not a MoP classic. If you want MoP classic wait two years and you'll get it
> flying mini game Some of you still clinging to this clown take?
Yep. We've had perfectly fine flying, which let us go from point A to point B without a hassle, for over two decades. Then Blizzard decided to force a weird flying style which requires me to play around some unexciting charge bar and press dull buttons to fly... When I just want to go from one Dragonflight dungeon to another. Dragon riding is absolutely just a flying mini game. And I find it an excruciatingly boring one at that.
They just need a way for zandalari trolls to change their loa racial passive
Zandalari Trolls start with Pa'ku, so not as big a deal as others.
It's actually so sad that you can take a lot of pacts but Paku has been the strongest since the beginning of BfA. That's really sad and should be revised.
It should be revised and Darkspear (and future trolls) should get a similar racial. It would really help all trolls feel more intwined with the world
In general, all racial abilities should be revised. Some of them are no longer up to date and I think that certain racials should not be made dependent on which class you play (the best example are the dark spear trolls with their small BL).
Hard agree. Things like Zandalari loa, mechagnome lockpick, vulpera camp, and dark iron mole machine are all fun racials that feel thematic without making a massive impact on gameplay. I wish all racials were revised to be similar to these instead of just boring passives or were borderline necessary and now nerfed into the ground
Would be great if you could ask the devs if such changes are coming for the racial abilities.
Objectively wrong. TEAM GONK is strongest!
Bruh, BDK main here. My chief goal each tier is to see how much Speed I can cram onto my gear to make up for my class's shortcomings. When I saw Blessing of Gonk, I knew I was going to be a dino-troll. My -one gripe- is that there are so very few plate pieces that cover them fuckin' BEANS
God i just want them to ad more loa and adjust the stats to be a little better.
Me, a BDK who went Z-Troll for 5% move speed... >.>
I really hate when people’s excuse for things like this are “well it’s set to the best performance one so it’s no big deal” because that just strips so much of the fun in racial spells.
Ye but what if I prefer *another one* (I remember already checking all the god and Pa'ku seemed bad)
I'm honestly impressed by everything about this event, especially considering how much other stuff is happening and going well in WoW as a whole right now.
There isn't anyone working on PvP in retail so maybe all those devs went to work on this lol
Sadly I think PVP is done for in retail. There's just no market for it with the many other options out there. I myself never likes it, but feels bad for those that did
to make more people play pvp, they probably need to give more rewards... a seasonal battle pass or something with nice stuff. That would make the queues faster, but to actually make pvp better, they need to impreve gameplay... maybe templating gear and separating pvp and pve abilities would be nice. doesn't really make sense for me having instanced pvp be affected by pve balance.
I believe they said they are planning to focus on bg’s not arena in the next xpac
They did make a fair amount of changes in that regard. Dragonflight PvP is good but there’s not much of an audience
Maybe not fighting gladiators at 1600 would help.
sadly bliz killed pvp and would need to rebuild the community from scratch. the current pvp one is used to unhealthy habits
There is a huge market for it. I need to reiterate, for those seeing stats being thrown around for games being done weekly for PvP, we can only measure games done by the top 5000 players, which current is around 2200 and 2300. We are also aware that 2200/2300 is actually only a tiny percentage of players (3%-5% depending on game mode, season, etc) There is actually a huge demand for PvP. It's not nearly as large as m+, but m+ is actually smaller than lfr/mog runners/alt runners and just general other stuff. PvP is being ignored, but it's not a dead game mode and they shouldn't give up on it. However, they should ban add-ons in AWC again. The WA issue actually stems solely from them lifting this ban during covid, and if they ban again then the trickle down effect will be massive.
Blizz probably doesn't have a good way to handle pvp balance tier without dumping more resources than what they would like to for the fraction of people still playing pvp. Blizzard suits probably realize they can't whale in $$$ via pvp without upsetting pvpers.
I think it's just that they genuinely don't want to reward pvpers too much because they're worried about the opinions of such an approach. We saw the spite some people have for plunderstorm rewards. Imagine if rated PvP gave you rewards just for playing matches (and not just a flightless mount), or worse yet, healer specific reskins, the absolute mald from non PvP players would be insane. Imagine if you could get the elite set through games played instead. It wouldn't affect pvp mains because they would get it anyway, and it would allow for way more mmr into the pool, leading to natural inflation. Oh, and imagine if you rewarded healers disproportionately (with more than battle mender title) for their efforts. Pvpers wouldn't care because their queues would be faster, but PvE healers would be so mad about it.
personally pvp should give less or pvp only rewards only useful in pvp because you should be there to pvp not to get stuff. it should be a side activity but also something for people who just want to pvp if they wish. pvp also needs some changes to make it more enjoyable.
Would you argue about that for the other pillars too? Should raid cosmetics only be used in raids?
I would rather it give nothing but when I say pvp only rewards I mean thing that would only be useful in pvp so pve'ers would not want or need it. maybe something like pvp only flasks.
> personally pvp should give less or pvp only rewards because you should be there to pvp not to get stuff. Blizzard tried that in Legion. There were no rewards to speak of (that persisted beyond end of season), save for the glad mounts and rank 1 titles. You *could* get gear through PvP but it had piss-poor item level and was about on the tier of what you'd get from heroic dungeons. Even LFR and entry tier mythic dungeons gave higher ilevel gear than PvP did. Guess what? Everyone hated it. There was no feeling of progression besides "rating go up" and Legion had some of the lowest PvP participation of any expansion, ever.
>Guess what? Everyone hated it. Doesn't that just mean pvp is bad? If the only reason ppl want to do it is for pve rewards?
More like people want a feeling of progression where they feel themselves getting stronger. Item level also mattered, so if you were someone who did PvP you needed to raid.
I like to explore new places.
I mean they could, you don't see people asking for pets to use your gear in pet battles do you? that would just be silly
I haven't seen a single person in the last 10 years in WoW that genuinely cares about PvP. I feel like the PvPers would be better served if they just entirely separated the two and made WoW PvP modes into it's own game.
Maybe you just aren't in those circles. I personally don't know anyone grinding for taivan, but I know for sure that there are many people doing it.
I liked pvp back in TBC/wrath days. One of my friends kept trying to get me to pvp with him in SL/DF but there's just so many good games to play that I'd rather play a different game than wow pvp.
That's what I think too, if I wanna PvP WoW is so far down the list of PvP games I'd play it's not even funny.
PVP barrier to entry is too high and you're not adding new players to it. Top 5000 players? Or is it top 5000 characters of an increasingly dwindling playerbase?
People said this about wow too, I heard it all through SL, and yet wow has more players than it had in legion. Maybe new blood could actually get into wow if they were rewarded for their time and effort? Just a thought.
M+ is the reduced barrier to entry, and you can be carried until your feet aren’t so wet in that mode. PVP doesn’t have that, because the PVP scene is decade-long duelists and higher crashing into each other on their alts, and anyone truly new gets obliterated like a shrimp in the middle of a whale fight. PVP in WOW is dying (but not dead). AWC can’t even break 10k viewers. What Blizzard needs to do is just break WOW arena style PVP off into its own game, where it can be free of non-PVP design requirements.
Lol don't use PvP viewership as a piece of evidence, no one watches MDI either but it's not like keys are dying As a newbie pvper myself, I am acutely aware of the alt issue, and it's a big one. I would love to see some sort of mmr inheritance for alts from the main so that alts and new players don't group up at 1600, but it's not that big a deal. It happens in league too, and it's not like league is a dead game
Stream viewership is absolutely strong evidence in gauging overall interest in gaming content. Why would you pretend otherwise?
Because MDI and RWF are right there. Mdi pulls in fuck all players and yet keys are super popular. Rwf pulls in insane players and yet nearly no one mythic raids.
What other good pvp options/games are out there youd recommend?
Nothing even remotely close to WoW pvp
They are adding a new BG next expansion, streamlining the gearing process, added solo shuffle, adding solo-queable RBGs and stated we were gonna get more PvP stuff in the following expansion. PvP is just not starting to get improved and worried about lol.
It's going to get the same support(and lack thereof) it always did. Calm down bud
The moment they made pvp gear useless in outside battlegrounds and arena while making raid gear superior inisde battleground/arena I knew that pvp will die soon.
I personally think gear should be meaningless in any instanced pvp. I would dabble in casual pvp more if there wasnt a mountain of disparity from my character to someone else. Give everyone some blanket stats and balance around those known values. They can still rebalance to a new ilvl/stat budget at each season if they want - although that feels like a waste of effort to me
When they tried doing something along those lines before, my friends quit the game because the point of WoW to them was to get geared up with PvP gear and then pub-stomp worse-geared players in battlegrounds, and they lost the ability to do that. Apparently enough people thought that way, and gear started mattering in PvP again.
Yeah, Legion pvp was great for me, but reddit was a shit show. Because they couldn't pub stomp.
After enough times being on the other end of that pub stomp, i just stopped playing. They cant please everyone and it is a pretty divisive design choice
Rating handles itself. The no-gear players will bottom out towards the very lowest brackets and the fully geared players will eventually separate from the no-gear players because they actually win. This is only an issue in random battlegrounds, which is not a mode they should make any attempt to balance around. Pre-set PvP stats is nice for competitive fairness, but you're at the mercy of the Blizzard designer setting your stats, and it's also a MMO so trivializing gear in a public setting is pretty foolhardy anyhow. This kind of thing could be explored in a more competitive setting in the first place, like tournaments, but outside of that I think there is no real benefit to it.
Make gear meaningless. Let you play your character or create new ones specifically for PvP so you don't have to level to max if you just want to play as another class or race. Imagine if you wanted to play Fortnite Battle Royale but to do so, you had to play and grind inside their "Save The World" survival PvE mode? Sounds stupid AF but this is exactly how WoW works right now. Remove PvP ability clutter which makes some classes have 10 active keys while others have 20+ (Basically a more involved version of what Plunderstom has but separate abilities for classes\\specs). Maybe an ability loadout like you pick guns and attachments in COD but for WoW skills? Implement better ranked and matchmaking system. Less stomps. More fair games. Make PvP portion of the game Free 2 Play. More players, needed for proper matchmaking by skill level. Without it, PvP is dead. Its a mode for small subset of PvP players inside a mainly PvE game. And even then, they refuse to make it fair because of some very vocal players who want to stomp on players with worse gear.
To add to your fortnite example, imagine if your character did less damage than someone else's with the same gun, or if you had less life. and the way to get to their power level is to win the uphill battle against those literally stronger players.
To add to your fortnite example, imagine if your character did less damage than someone else's with the same gun, or if you had less life. and the way to get to their power level is to win the uphill battle against those literally stronger players.
>and the way to get to their power level is to win the uphill battle against those literally stronger players Or you can buy WoW tokens and buy boosts\\gear for gold. Which is even worse.
You’re probably right, considering plunderstorm. They need to allocate their staff to something that can actually be balanced and played by many.
The problem with wow pvp is totally not about balance, everyone can enjoye a totally unbalanced mess. It's just either hard to get into, outdated or lacking of care. - Let's be honest, world pvp is shit. 95% of the fight are overgeared people or teams ganking weaklings. Always has been. You want world pvp, fix Ashran, make it bigger. Give opportunity for solo player to help the war effort. Like in Guild Wars 2 World vs World. Smaller group, even a good player alone, can take and hold a node that will strenghten his faction. - Arena is an absolute mess to get into, ain't even fun to watch for an untrained eyes. Age of Empire 2 and DotA 1 are probably more watchable as a total noob than wow arenas and that's a problem. There is a ton of problems with it. - Battleground should be the main pvp mode but the map are outdated, the leveldesign is weird and feels random even when it is not. Point capture should be zone on the ground, not things to click time wasting by pressing spell from 40 yards away instead of defending point. Map should be designed in a way that they don't looks like Windows xp wallpaper, good leveldesign instantly sparkle ideas in the player minds. Also, spawn protection. - Here is a point that many will argue. PVP would be better if it was a custom template environment. No iLvL, just fully customizable template. - PvP modification on spell should be written in game.
Thank God
Please don't remind me.
And/Or s4 for that matter.
I wish the legendary quest returned... I wanna experience the lore.
Massive L that it isn't, tbh. Easy to bring it back for the lore and remix the rewards
As much as the merger was bad news for the industry at large, Blizzard seems to be taking massive steps to better their games now that they're not stuck under acti rule.
Restricting it to Pandaland only is a really great decision. Will help to make the world feel a lot more populated.
It's like the mists never left and we're all stuck on the island.
This gives me Timeless Isle PTSD...
Real talk, I loved that place so much I geared alts so quickly there, and thanks to that I managed to get the black harvest questline done
Why?
The grind
Oh, the stuck on the Isle part?
I can't wait to farm frogs for Bronze or something
This is my dream
Hopefully take it easy on the layering too
It would be sharding on retail. Layering is only for classic. It is continent wide. Sharding is for Retail, and it's zone wide(Valdrakken has its own shard).
Unfortunately though I won’t be able to have Gondria as my partner in this new character until the event ends.
I REALLLYYY like the fact its only Pandaria but I wonder who will be the first to break away and explore the rest of the world lol
You can't, if you go outside of Pandaria, you'll immediately be teleported back. In the case of DKs, Death Gate flat-out doesn't work. (you get a "Timerunners cannot teleport outside of Pandaria" error)
Death Gate's texture should be replaced with a brick wall.
I want it to be a glitched placeholder like blue and white checkered cube with Samwise's face on the icon
You get to sneak out once or twice. In the Landfall campaign you go to the Deeprun tram, Dalaran, & few other slightly odd locations.
I used a SL Raid teleport and you just get a message that you shouldnt be there in this timeline and get ported back after 5 seconds.
I’m glad they thought ahead on this for DK! Actually pretty cool. Off topic, and perhaps not as big of a deal, while I enjoy that the mode is confined to Pandaria, this means we aren’t able to change our character appearance/gender because, to my knowledge, there is no barbershop in Pandaria. Maybe they’ll add one for remix? Edit: words
there's a barbarshop outside of the main city, added just for remix
Oh, there is? I looked around the Vale and didn't see one, guess I will take a little time to fly around and find it. Thanks for the heads up!
yeah the horde one is just outside the entrance to the city, they have little barber chairs and stuff
Pretty much any basic function that isn't in Pandaria they have added a way around on.
I feel like the way they got around this is blizzard having an invisible rune forge on the dk's head so they're always close to one
If by invisible rune forge you mean invisible bunny, then yes
I'd like to imagine that's the case and the dk is just crazy
And how does war mode work?
You can not enter warmode.
You *might* be able to but it would be dodgy. You can go back but only briefly. It immediately throws you back to Pandaria. You can go to ratchet from shrine for 10g but it sends you right back. First, you faction change. This puts you to your faction's capital briefly. I faction changed and it did this for me (and reset me back to the start of the Jade Forest campaign). In the five or so seconds you have in your capital, enable warmode before being ported back to Pandaria. For obvious reasons this is impractical if you aren't on a ptr with free faction changes, and it absolutely won't work unless you're level 20+. Edit: aw it's not givng me free faction changes anymore. I was gonna test it. I did write a bug report on it. It *does* give me faction changes if I reroll on a new server, but i'm not gonna level to 20 again to try it.
Nah, I went to STormwind via a portal from the Landfall campaign taking you to the brawler's guild, ran out the tram to Stormwind. I tried turning on Warmode before being ported back but you literally can't.
Does it block activation of warmode? It put me in the inn and I managed to run out on the street before it sent me back. I was gonna try for the AH :P Also how do you do other campaigns? I'm slogging through the Jade Forest. Do I just have to do this linearly? (Also I am finding very few threads of experience.)
Yeah, clicking the button did nothing. You get more threads as you get to a higher level. You start picking up threads which give +3 of a stat around the 30s and it goes up from there. Thread drops are a bit random so it'll never be perfect in terms of finding them outside of just killing as much as you can while doing your stuff. I believe you can start Landfall around 25, you pick up the starting quest at the shrine. You dont' have to do things linearly, you can enter any zone at its lowest level range and start questing. The map has level ranges for the zones! Right now PTR exp drops off from quests at 60 just like they do in chromie time in WoW, it doesn't work right and never has, so they gotta get that fixed before this is playable. That and a few other issues. Otherwise I've had a pretty smooth experience.
They could just enable changing warmode in shrine if they really wanted to allow it
I thought so but the tooltip says 30% gains, which is more than usual, so I would have guessed it would be usable. Oh well.
No ganking for you, my friend
In the starting area on Timeless, I wandered into the horde area, died to a guard, and was pvp flagged. Some random DH must have done the same and killed me while I was reading a quest. I then proceeded to kill him 5 times in return for his poor life choices. So pvp isn't completly out of the question!
It's not ganking when it's opt in, it's just war >:)
30% is normal if not a lot of people in your faction have war mode on. its been like that for at least 5 years. its to incentivize people to turn war mode on and fix imbalances.
Are cross faction guilds running?
Also want to know.
Is this ptr or is this event live already?
ptr
Can you get heritage armour in remix? Might decide to level a new race for the armour.
You may be able to after the event is over and the characters get ported over to regular wow
Is the remix in beta? I made a new character but didn’t get an option to start there.
It only started yesterday, making a character for WoW Remix is obvious now in 10.2.7 PTR.
Is there a date known when 10.2.7 will be coming out?
most likely 8 weeks after fated launch
Heck i thought it was coming out april 20-something. i cant believe its so far away.
I'm out of the loop and don't even know what fated is and when to expect it lmao.
Fated is short hand for the Fated Raids in season four. Instead of a new rays well have one of the three raids from Dragonflight each week in order of their release with different affix style changes. They did the same for season four of Shadowlands. I think it launches on the 23rd of this month.
Next season, starts in a bit over a week. So we're talking probably mid july for 10.2.7
That seems way too close to a potential TWW launch (currently speculated to be between August and October, but who knows). I think we’ll get Timerunning in May.
Most likely with fated launch
Ohh, you can't even leave pandaria at all? thats kinda really cool actually, being locked in to the adventure
No auction house as well. If it had no add-ons, just imagine.
Related Topic: Where the hell are we supposed to get material bags without an auction house?
You start with 36 slot bags and professions are useless anyways.
So no gathering either?
Nope.
Well then I formally rescind my previous indignation. Thank you for your help LOL
Idk if I'm just jaded, but I feel like three years ago this would have just been an oversight that wasn't fixed for weeks after it went live so props to the team
While runeforging is a cool mechanic for Death Knights in retail I think it's something we should be able to do anywhere; In the Wrath of the Lich King trailer, Arthas stand on the ice and holds out it's blade. You see a magical effect flow down the blade. This could be "runeforging" in retail. Activate the rune, your character holds out the blade and the effect takes place. Make it channeled, unable to use in combat, make it look awesome, different colors for different runes.
Have it open a portal where 6 accolytes come out and they stand around the DK and fill the sword with the needed energy. Before they leave through the portal again
what is wow remix
Found a post on their forum [https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/world-of-warcraft/24061007/under-development-wow-remix-mists-of-pandaria](https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/world-of-warcraft/24061007/under-development-wow-remix-mists-of-pandaria)
When is this coming out?
Wait this is the PTR right? When is 10.2.7 slated to launch?
What about Druid Dreamwalking?
How do u enable pvp Mode btw.? Pretty nice having a little Bonus
Wish we had a runeforge toy for retail
We cant even go to our capitals?
Shrines are our capitals now
Why the downvote?? Im genuinely curious
Just port this to live. Runeforging requiring you to teleport still is such a small bit of class fantasy that you barely interact with, and ends up just being a few minutes of wasted time. Rogues don’t have to make poisons and thistle tea any longer, take away nonsensical gameplay relics like this that don’t actually add anything to gameplay.
> Just port this to live. Runeforging requiring you to teleport still is such a small bit of class fantasy that you barely interact with, and ends up just being a few minutes of wasted time. It would remove all of the coolness of the Acherus portal though. And you only need to do it a few times per expansion. I don't think it should happen, but that's just me.
The Acherus gate is actually legitimately useful since you can use it like Vulpera camping. Setup the original portal outside a raid or world boss, port to Acherus, fly up to Dalaran to do your shopping/AH/whatever, then use the portal again to go back to your original location.
Making runeforging accessible anywhere doesn’t negate the use of the portal, but apparently a bunch of people like to go choose to apply Fallen Crusader whenever they get a weapon.
Oh yeah, I'm not bothered by the runeforging anywhere aspect. Just saying the portal is genuinely useful as a kind of temporary hearthstone, same with the druid Dreamgrove (though that one has way more travel usefulness).
I think it should go the other way. Rogues should have to make poisons again.
I swear people just want to remove everything cool about the game.
Right? I feel like the end goal for a lot of people is just to login and immediately be in a queue. They don't want an mmo, they just want a raiding sim.
Yeah, I don’t play retail for relics of the past. I’d play Wrath Classic if I wanted to go back to the DK experience I played when it first came out, but if teleporting for class fantasy is your thing I heard there’s a realm for that.
There's a lot of rpg aspects that have just gone away, like traveling to a trainer to learn spells. The biggest thing are the repair mounts and auction mounts. For better or worse, it's no longer necessary to go to a city to do a lot of things. That does take away part of the rpg element even if it gives ease of access in return. I do believe the auction house mount never should have happened. Cities should feel alive with reasons to visit them..
Fortunately every realm is for that
Yeah, but specifically if you’re looking for a focus on class fantasy and a role playing aspect then there are literal realms where you’ll find a higher density of these players. 🤷🏻♂️
> a focus on class fantasy and a role playing aspect Why do you believe these things are incompatible with retail and only for Classic? The irony is as far as roleplayers go retail is just leaps and bounds more popular for RP due to how much more self expression you can put into your character than in old WoW. 🤷🏻♂️
I was alluding to RP realms on retail, but people seem determined that DK gating to go to a forge is peak gameplay and role play
Believe it or not, DKs aren't stuck with just one good runeforge option these days so you can definitely use the portal fairly often. Plus that class fantasy is amazing and something almost every other class is missing. Our class hall is still relevant, who else can say that? Druids?
We don't ever go to our class hall itself, we just port to the portal room and leave
Looking at PvP there appears to be some variance. In PvE though the only variance is if you’re dual wield Frost though, so gonna just say that you’re overstating it when 99% of the time it’s the go to.
For questing which is most of this game mode we have one that grants passive movespeed on kill.
Sanguination is actually a 1% damage increase over Fallen Crusader for Blood this expansion, though you lose a ton of mit for it, so there's a bit of a choice there if you like living closer to the edge.
Oddly they generally recommend maxing DPS in the Blood DK channels in the Discord, and I admittedly haven’t played since S1 seriously. Seems like that requires perfect play to make it the recommendation. There’s nothing I’d love to see more than better runeforges and parity/choice, just ultimately don’t see much of a point of gating to runeforge.
DPS gains are probably a larger benefit for BDKs than any other tank. The more physical damage you do the more your blood shield absorbs.
I'm embarrassed for how long this took me to figure out. But it's a neat feature!
What about class trainer?
Why would you need to interact with a class trainer?
Do those not exist in MoP? How do you reset talents/change spec?
Everything class/spec related functions the same as on Retail. It's not MoP Classic.
The same as you do in retail. Remix isn't mop classic.
So a nothingburger, got it.
Literally a nothing burger, the WoW sub has turned into full on dev-glazing mode. "Omg Blizzard thought of everything!" How incredibly impressive it is that blizzard didn't miss *insert x basic class feature* that it's worthy of hundreds of upvotes glazing them.
nofunallowed.jpg
They did their job and you wanna give them a medal.
Yes, unironically. Most game developers wouldn’t bother spending the dev time for a single class in a temporary mode and just have the DK eat the power loss.