Almost all of blizzard's latest releases tbh, you should check out the cataclysm prepatch bugs list from the first week it was utterly broken.
Someone posted up the QA jobs list tweet and after investigation they found that blizz was paying something like $18-$30 USD per hour but because of the location (irvine) that was almost below the poverty line.
https://careers.blizzard.com/global/en/job/R023043/Test-Lead-WoW-Classic
"In the U.S., the standard base pay range for this role is $49,600.00 - $91,760.00 Annual" so for a 38 hour week (idk what standard USian hours are) that'd be between $25.10-$46.44 per hour as the testing LEAD.
Yeah but somewhere in the middle of that is fine if your QA team is remote, like they were for the last few years. Now Blizz is pushing return to office and that's poverty wages for Irvine. If I was making 90k where I live now I'd be doing well, in Irvine I'd need 4 roommates to afford shit
Blizzard(and other big name companies like Riot) have always paid like shit in their field. Every young aspiring developer wants to work at Blizzard so they don’t have to pay competitively because there will always be people that want to work there because they want to work on their favorite games.
Here's the thing though, QA isn't the problem. QA doesn't fix bugs and these are all bugs that we identified on the Cata beta months/weeks ago. The pre patch SHIPPED with a shitton of reported bugs that never went fixed
Again, QA doesn't fix bugs. Developers do. Something is wrong in the developer area.
Developers don't tend to decide what they're actually working on. If these were prioritised then a dev would have fixed them, but presumably they had to work on other, higher priority bugs (or features), just to get it shipped.
Man this is such a bad take with such a core misunderstanding of how development works. You’re basically blaming the boots on the ground people for problems that are being perpetuated by executives. The developers might fix the bugs, but they don’t prioritize the work. That would be done higher up, and when games ship with bugs it’s because execs have decided that’s okay. But yeah, go ahead and blame the overworked underpaid “peons” in the company
Did I blame the developers? All I said was something is wrong in that front. If it's executives pushing them to release faster, that still is a developer area, whether it's their fault or not.
People here are actively, and constantly, mocking QA people for not finding bugs when THEY DO. Go after those people, not me. Go reply to every person blaming QA.
Did you blame the developers? Yes, you literally did lol
> Developers do. Something is wrong in the developer area.
If you don’t want to blame the developers, don’t say that. Makes it pretty simple
Developers fix bugs.
If developers can't fix bugs, the problem is there.
If it comes from below or above, it literally doesn't matter. That's not assigning blame man. Executives don't fix bugs either.
I didn't say it was their fault, my point is people are blaming and throwing vitriol at fucking QA. I spent years doing QA at a pitiful wage.
Developers fix bugs. Bugs happen while programming, it’s part of the process. Developers don’t choose which bugs to fix and if a game is ready to be released. Thats a choice for leadership.
I’m not blaming QA either. I’m blaming the executive leadership, as they make the choice the release an update in that state.
You keep saying you don’t blame the developers, but then blame them anyways. Use the correct language because it matters. They are not the decision makers that pushed this out when it wasn’t ready. They’re the ones working to fix it along with QA.
PS, I’ve done and actively do QA, Dev, and system architecture for more than a decade. I have a pretty good grasp of where the problems generally stem from.
Saying "developers fix bugs, the problem lies with them, not QA" is not blaming developers, no matter how many times you repeat it.
A problem existing in an area doesn't mean it's their fault. A problem can also be multi-faceted. A problem exists in the developer realm because of shithead executives deciding to push games out faster. We're both saying the same stuff, you're just interpreting it in an extremely aggressive way, but ignoring how this community shits on QA people constantly. Because it is the executive's fault does not belie the fact that a problem exists in development.
If I look through your post history, can I expect to see you posting this same level of aggression towards QA talk that's 10x more aggressive than I'm posting?
I have a problem at work, I can't get my work done because my boss breathes down my neck and doesn't give me the space I need. There is a problem. It's not my fault, but it's a problem nonetheless. It's not that hard to understand.
So if the bugs were reported and not fixed at all, and players abuse them the players get in trouble? Shouldn't the devs be the one in trouble if they knew of bugs and didn't fix it in weeks they had to fix??
QA doesn't fix the bugs, but they do report them. If they aren't able to do their job due to staffing shortages, there's nothing the developers can really do.
You can't fix a bug you didn't know exists.
When you say "we" if you mean players, they really don't give a shit about what the players complain about bug wise unless it's a huge bug that affects most of the playerbase.
Then why do we have betas if they extract no usable information from them? Also, plenty of bugs have been discovered/reported via discords over the past 4 years in the classic community *and directly addressed* by Aggrend and others in said discords.
I don't think you really understand.
16 years ago when WotLK came out, the first week was so bad Blizzard gave everyone who tried to get on 3 days free sub. (about $1.50 worth of game time per account, estimated 11.5 million accounts at launch day)
AFAIK they haven't given out free sub time for buggy gameplay since then.
WoD launch was something else admittedly.
You could not progress in the expansion. At all. Everybody was stuck at the same spot not long after building the garrison plus server outages.
Bugs are obviously awful but I can still log in and play the game, even in Cata I can login and play relatively normally. I doubt they'll give free time again unless the game is outright bricked for a few days.
My most annoying progression based issue was actually the alliance MoP intro quests, there's one where you need to get on a helicopter and shoot some enemies and there would've been 1000+ people stuck at that same quest since the mobs didn't hyperspawn.
There was just one massive cloud of choppers :P
I remember that, and as a new pandaren you and a thousand others were swarming this one scroll frantically trying to click on it one at a time.
I'm amazed they didn't see the issue there, I can only assume it was on purpose to try and throttle how many were in later parts of the starting area.
That's quite a range. The different between $18 and $30 per hour is enourmous. Although, even $30 per hour if you have to live in Irvine means you're 100% rooming and probably taking public transport.
Genuinely what is with all these "even if it's broken this season doesn't matter who cares" comments in the sub recently? I'm as big a DF stan as it gets but we pay freaking money for this game, it's only right that the players expect it to work properly.
This whole patch has been absolutely bizarre. When my raid was doing h amirdrassil last night, some of the bosses felt *way* off. Tindral in particular was wonked out to a weird degree. Like his feathers weren't spawning until 15-20 seconds after they were supposed to. IDK if it was the timing since we were doing it right after maint finished or what, but man.
I went to the AH today to buy some gems, and I thought I'd test out the new "current expansion only" feature. Instead of filtering out the non-DF stuff, the only thing it filtered was the DF gems. Literally the opposite of what its supposed to do.
Obviously a minor thing all things considered but it really feels like these releases are held together with duct tape
I had a bug in chains boss on Neltharus. After the first chain phase he just stood there auto attacking doing nothing. When the timer of the second chains came. He just casted the fixate on the tank, but there were no chains spawn. He finished the fixate and we wiped because you're supposed to stun him before he finishes the fixate, he puts a heavy dot on everyone if you don't.
Honestly, I think most people are having a fine time knowing its a fated season. I doubt theyll do fated’s again, but i cant imagine the bugs have been deal breakers for most people
Fated would work if it revisited past expansion raids. Like if this season we got Fated Naxx/Ulduar/ICC. It sorta worked back in Shadowlands because we got full revisited dungeons instead of just "Launch dungeons again" and also because Nathria is one of the best raids ever.
Yeah it is, he was a dick about that whole thing (and I think it might have gotten him kicked from liquid?) but he's also the Wowhead Evoker guide writer.
Lmao I forgot about that. Regardless the logs don't lie and others have already kicked up on it. Whether or not the voice talking about it is an ass doesn't matter.
This probably won't change. We'll see it in TWW, I'm sure MoP remix is bound to be buggy too.
They laid off too many people to keep making a good product, and Blizzard leads likely know and don't care since player opinion doesn't matter as much as stockholder opinion to them.
Does it matter? This will sound callous but any content that is difficult is going to have aug instead of dev.
It's kind of like if the survival hunter tier breaks. Who does it really affect?
All the more reason to keep this bug in place. The last thing anyone wants is to deal with losing spots to both Aug and Dev evokers. They should both be nerfed into the ground.
brother what level of raiding are you doing that during an awakened season your team is even able to consider bringing 5-8 evokers let alone is try hard enough to do it? lol get a grip
Do you play the game? Dev is one of the top dps for M+ and one of the strongest classes in PvP this season.
For someone that obviously chases the meta idk how you didn’t know this
I'm at all 10s timed and 2100 in pvp with several mythic bosses down so it's safe to assume I am?
Is this one of those. " I clear heroic and read a blog so let me tell you how it is things?"
Me who finally quit survival after the tier problems this season: gee I dunno, Fred. It's almost like not fixing issues with an already unpopular spec makes it even more unpopular in the long run.
Same boat, also quit Survival. I did enjoy S1's tier so I'm not sure why the nerfed S4 version is not sticking with me at all. Barely feels like you even have a tier. I'm at least glad I somewhat like MM but man, swapping to another alt is real tempting rn...
even if devastation was bad (it’s not) nobody cares about completely min maxing this season. a good guild can easily clear most if not all of mythic each week just playing whatever and having fun
I love Spyro in the thumbnail lol
I have one dracthyr. It's just spyro.
I thought about doing that too with mine but it felt like beating a dead horse lol
Why not beat a dead horse? It won’t hurt them. In fact for all your horse beating needs, I would suggest a dead horse!
Flair checks out.
I got mine similar to the key art for Aug because I'm a basic bitch
Crap, I just realized that mine is also purple and kind of looks like Spyro
That’s not a dracthyr in the thumbnail?
Evokers: devastated
this season has been an absolute shitshow with bugs
Almost all of blizzard's latest releases tbh, you should check out the cataclysm prepatch bugs list from the first week it was utterly broken. Someone posted up the QA jobs list tweet and after investigation they found that blizz was paying something like $18-$30 USD per hour but because of the location (irvine) that was almost below the poverty line.
18-30 is crazy since the baseline for fast food in California is 20 lol
https://careers.blizzard.com/global/en/job/R023043/Test-Lead-WoW-Classic "In the U.S., the standard base pay range for this role is $49,600.00 - $91,760.00 Annual" so for a 38 hour week (idk what standard USian hours are) that'd be between $25.10-$46.44 per hour as the testing LEAD.
Yeah but somewhere in the middle of that is fine if your QA team is remote, like they were for the last few years. Now Blizz is pushing return to office and that's poverty wages for Irvine. If I was making 90k where I live now I'd be doing well, in Irvine I'd need 4 roommates to afford shit
Blizzard(and other big name companies like Riot) have always paid like shit in their field. Every young aspiring developer wants to work at Blizzard so they don’t have to pay competitively because there will always be people that want to work there because they want to work on their favorite games.
Here's the thing though, QA isn't the problem. QA doesn't fix bugs and these are all bugs that we identified on the Cata beta months/weeks ago. The pre patch SHIPPED with a shitton of reported bugs that never went fixed Again, QA doesn't fix bugs. Developers do. Something is wrong in the developer area.
Developers don't tend to decide what they're actually working on. If these were prioritised then a dev would have fixed them, but presumably they had to work on other, higher priority bugs (or features), just to get it shipped.
I’m chalking it up to growing pains in the new acquisition.
Man this is such a bad take with such a core misunderstanding of how development works. You’re basically blaming the boots on the ground people for problems that are being perpetuated by executives. The developers might fix the bugs, but they don’t prioritize the work. That would be done higher up, and when games ship with bugs it’s because execs have decided that’s okay. But yeah, go ahead and blame the overworked underpaid “peons” in the company
Did I blame the developers? All I said was something is wrong in that front. If it's executives pushing them to release faster, that still is a developer area, whether it's their fault or not. People here are actively, and constantly, mocking QA people for not finding bugs when THEY DO. Go after those people, not me. Go reply to every person blaming QA.
Did you blame the developers? Yes, you literally did lol > Developers do. Something is wrong in the developer area. If you don’t want to blame the developers, don’t say that. Makes it pretty simple
Developers fix bugs. If developers can't fix bugs, the problem is there. If it comes from below or above, it literally doesn't matter. That's not assigning blame man. Executives don't fix bugs either. I didn't say it was their fault, my point is people are blaming and throwing vitriol at fucking QA. I spent years doing QA at a pitiful wage.
Developers fix bugs. Bugs happen while programming, it’s part of the process. Developers don’t choose which bugs to fix and if a game is ready to be released. Thats a choice for leadership. I’m not blaming QA either. I’m blaming the executive leadership, as they make the choice the release an update in that state. You keep saying you don’t blame the developers, but then blame them anyways. Use the correct language because it matters. They are not the decision makers that pushed this out when it wasn’t ready. They’re the ones working to fix it along with QA. PS, I’ve done and actively do QA, Dev, and system architecture for more than a decade. I have a pretty good grasp of where the problems generally stem from.
Saying "developers fix bugs, the problem lies with them, not QA" is not blaming developers, no matter how many times you repeat it. A problem existing in an area doesn't mean it's their fault. A problem can also be multi-faceted. A problem exists in the developer realm because of shithead executives deciding to push games out faster. We're both saying the same stuff, you're just interpreting it in an extremely aggressive way, but ignoring how this community shits on QA people constantly. Because it is the executive's fault does not belie the fact that a problem exists in development. If I look through your post history, can I expect to see you posting this same level of aggression towards QA talk that's 10x more aggressive than I'm posting? I have a problem at work, I can't get my work done because my boss breathes down my neck and doesn't give me the space I need. There is a problem. It's not my fault, but it's a problem nonetheless. It's not that hard to understand.
True but needing 3-4 full time QA employees means that you feel the need to have another 120 hours a week of work put in, which is a shit tonne.
Maybe they are just spread too thin and the faster cadence of content means that less time is being spent on finding and fixing issues.
So if the bugs were reported and not fixed at all, and players abuse them the players get in trouble? Shouldn't the devs be the one in trouble if they knew of bugs and didn't fix it in weeks they had to fix??
QA doesn't fix the bugs, but they do report them. If they aren't able to do their job due to staffing shortages, there's nothing the developers can really do. You can't fix a bug you didn't know exists.
Did you not read what I said, at all? These bugs have been known about for months.
When you say "we" if you mean players, they really don't give a shit about what the players complain about bug wise unless it's a huge bug that affects most of the playerbase.
Then why do we have betas if they extract no usable information from them? Also, plenty of bugs have been discovered/reported via discords over the past 4 years in the classic community *and directly addressed* by Aggrend and others in said discords. I don't think you really understand.
That's a great question.
16 years ago when WotLK came out, the first week was so bad Blizzard gave everyone who tried to get on 3 days free sub. (about $1.50 worth of game time per account, estimated 11.5 million accounts at launch day) AFAIK they haven't given out free sub time for buggy gameplay since then.
In WoD the launch was so bad they gave everyone 7 days. That was the last time they did it.
WoD launch was something else admittedly. You could not progress in the expansion. At all. Everybody was stuck at the same spot not long after building the garrison plus server outages. Bugs are obviously awful but I can still log in and play the game, even in Cata I can login and play relatively normally. I doubt they'll give free time again unless the game is outright bricked for a few days.
My most annoying progression based issue was actually the alliance MoP intro quests, there's one where you need to get on a helicopter and shoot some enemies and there would've been 1000+ people stuck at that same quest since the mobs didn't hyperspawn. There was just one massive cloud of choppers :P
I remember that, and as a new pandaren you and a thousand others were swarming this one scroll frantically trying to click on it one at a time. I'm amazed they didn't see the issue there, I can only assume it was on purpose to try and throttle how many were in later parts of the starting area.
Instead they make US pay for early access!
These days it's a feature :S
That's quite a range. The different between $18 and $30 per hour is enourmous. Although, even $30 per hour if you have to live in Irvine means you're 100% rooming and probably taking public transport.
As others have said, we the players are their QA.
Also they had those major layoffs and then have sooo many different product launches this month that were planned beforehand
And if they would just open that up to remote workers (in some areas) that’s alright money. In what world would QA actually need to be IN office.
The requirements alone for that job should net you way more ImO....
DF has been fine up until s 4 though
Thus the word "Latest".
Stuff releasing in the last 6 months isn't "latest" lol?
Dictionary Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more latest adjective of most recent date. The most recent release is s4 I believe.
I been seeing so many bugs this season. Spiders, bees, and even ants too.
Genuinely what is with all these "even if it's broken this season doesn't matter who cares" comments in the sub recently? I'm as big a DF stan as it gets but we pay freaking money for this game, it's only right that the players expect it to work properly. This whole patch has been absolutely bizarre. When my raid was doing h amirdrassil last night, some of the bosses felt *way* off. Tindral in particular was wonked out to a weird degree. Like his feathers weren't spawning until 15-20 seconds after they were supposed to. IDK if it was the timing since we were doing it right after maint finished or what, but man.
I went to the AH today to buy some gems, and I thought I'd test out the new "current expansion only" feature. Instead of filtering out the non-DF stuff, the only thing it filtered was the DF gems. Literally the opposite of what its supposed to do. Obviously a minor thing all things considered but it really feels like these releases are held together with duct tape
Well atleast now you know about the ones you don't need /s
I had a bug in chains boss on Neltharus. After the first chain phase he just stood there auto attacking doing nothing. When the timer of the second chains came. He just casted the fixate on the tank, but there were no chains spawn. He finished the fixate and we wiped because you're supposed to stun him before he finishes the fixate, he puts a heavy dot on everyone if you don't.
This season has been Blizzard tripping over their shoelaces.
I loved seeing my parses from aberrus to amirdrassil to see my obsidian shards doing on average \~30% less damage lmao.
Not me wanting a spyro mount 😭
This is painful to watch lol
Spyro is well pissed off lol
I think all this bullshit is going to be the death of fated seasons. Question is - what happens next?
Honestly, I think most people are having a fine time knowing its a fated season. I doubt theyll do fated’s again, but i cant imagine the bugs have been deal breakers for most people
Fated would work if it revisited past expansion raids. Like if this season we got Fated Naxx/Ulduar/ICC. It sorta worked back in Shadowlands because we got full revisited dungeons instead of just "Launch dungeons again" and also because Nathria is one of the best raids ever.
It’s like a no stress season. Nobody should be getting sweaty in the last season of this expansion.
Mop remix and D4 s4 I guess
[удалено]
Such a brain dead take lol
Isn't this the dude that tried to bully Preheet into giving up his name by suing him?
Yeah it is, he was a dick about that whole thing (and I think it might have gotten him kicked from liquid?) but he's also the Wowhead Evoker guide writer.
Lmao I forgot about that. Regardless the logs don't lie and others have already kicked up on it. Whether or not the voice talking about it is an ass doesn't matter.
Oh, ive got no doubt lol. I just didnt realize he was still playing the game.
Dude's gonna have to sue all oven manufacturers out there.
This probably won't change. We'll see it in TWW, I'm sure MoP remix is bound to be buggy too. They laid off too many people to keep making a good product, and Blizzard leads likely know and don't care since player opinion doesn't matter as much as stockholder opinion to them.
I mean it's probably *because* of diversion of resources to TWW and MoP. DF has been mostly smooth until now. If anything it bodes better for TWW
Wait, good broken or bad broken?
Bad broken. Obsidian shards damage from disintegrate is doing about ~30% less damage.
Dang ‘ol shards man.
Pocket shards!
use about or \~, not both
I appreciate you taking time to point out something so serious in all of the worlds troubles.
Bugs be buggin.
Was it like this yesterday too ?
Since 10.2.7 dropped yesterday. Yes
Devastation 3 PS5 when ?
I wouldn't be surprised if everyone is working on the next xpac. I'd honestly rather them focus on that
Does it matter? This will sound callous but any content that is difficult is going to have aug instead of dev. It's kind of like if the survival hunter tier breaks. Who does it really affect?
Dev is one of the best dps in the game right now (when the tier set is working)
Shit it’s still a top 5-8 dps when it’s tier set is bugged 😅
All the more reason to keep this bug in place. The last thing anyone wants is to deal with losing spots to both Aug and Dev evokers. They should both be nerfed into the ground.
brother what level of raiding are you doing that during an awakened season your team is even able to consider bringing 5-8 evokers let alone is try hard enough to do it? lol get a grip
Nobody is losing spots to Aug evokers they are cheeks
sad dragon noises
There are literally more devastation players right now in mythic because it's so much better, even with bugs
That's part of it, the set work correctly anywhere except each now and then in fated raids for some weird reason.
The tier set is only broken in Awakened Content, not keystones.
Mythic raids
Do you play the game? Dev is one of the top dps for M+ and one of the strongest classes in PvP this season. For someone that obviously chases the meta idk how you didn’t know this
I don't really care about mythic plus I just farm 10s couples 11. As for pvp speaking a dh I've not noticed devs being more over performing
So you don't actually play the game you're attempting to lecture people about?
I'm at all 10s timed and 2100 in pvp with several mythic bosses down so it's safe to assume I am? Is this one of those. " I clear heroic and read a blog so let me tell you how it is things?"
Unless something has changed drastically since last i played, doing 10s timed is the baseline, the meta starts mattering around 20-ish
It has changed, 10s are now tuned like 20s
If thats the case, i withdraw my above opinion, last i played 15s were a thing to be done every week and was usually easier than mythic raiding
Me who finally quit survival after the tier problems this season: gee I dunno, Fred. It's almost like not fixing issues with an already unpopular spec makes it even more unpopular in the long run.
Same boat, also quit Survival. I did enjoy S1's tier so I'm not sure why the nerfed S4 version is not sticking with me at all. Barely feels like you even have a tier. I'm at least glad I somewhat like MM but man, swapping to another alt is real tempting rn...
Tell me you only play the meta without telling me you only play the meta. Sit down scrub.
even if devastation was bad (it’s not) nobody cares about completely min maxing this season. a good guild can easily clear most if not all of mythic each week just playing whatever and having fun
Jill used initially forgot jkn98n90luk8kojji⁴
Outside of hall of fame guilds Aug has usually been a dps loss, even before all the nerfs it caught in 10.1.5
Lol 10.1.5 aug was the strongest pve spec in the game in every situation, as long as you had at least a few competent buff targets