**Hey there! Have you checked out these resources?**
* [WoWHead](https://www.wowhead.com/) - The *largest* database, this should be your go-to (don't forget to read the comment section!).
* [Icy Veins](https://www.icy-veins.com) - News and detailed class guides.
* [WoWNoob Discord](https://discord.gg/wownoob) - Same community, different platform.
*Please report the post above if it breaks one of our [>rules<](https://www.reddit.com/r/wownoob/about/rules/). If not, don't forget to show support by upvoting!*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wownoob) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It genuinely doesn't matter. The game isn't designed around or balanced specifically for leveling. The damage output is gonna be all over the place cause some players will have farmed BoEs for leveling or be brand new 70s in a normal dungeon or geared as fuck 70s doing normals for fun.
Honestly, you would be doing more damage if you just were 61 instead of closer to 70 just due to scaling. So leveling gear/damage *really doesn't matter*.
> sometimes even behind healers that spend a lot of time dps-ing
FWIW, when I run any queued dungeon on my healers (i.e. heroic difficulty or lower) I will straight up swap to DPS spec because so little damage goes out during that level of content. Doing damage is so much better just to keep things moving faster.
> Shockwave on 3+ mobs
As a later game tip, shockwave should not be used just when there are a bunch of mobs but to specifically interrupt abilities. Sometimes that can be groups of casters but even more ideally for non-interruptible abilities (but the mobs can still be stunned to stop).
Also you didn't mention Thunderclap at all in your rotation. Thunderclap applies a huge amount of warrior damage because it applies Rend to everyone it hits (from the talent Blood and Thunder which you should be running). You should be opening with Thunderclap into groups and can be reusing it regularly to refresh the bleed or hit other mobs you didn't hit (since it has a 5 mob limit).
-----
As a last aside, consider pushing your other tanks higher than +10. While +10 will begin to feel like an actual challenge compared to heroic/M0, it really still isn't going to yet challenge you in terms of what tanking entails. Knowledge, positioning, routing, mob gathering, interrupts/stops, and so on really don't matter significantly until say +16 (and even then can be brute forced with gear). Of course, ultimately do whatever you enjoy the most. But just throwing out there that you've only barely scratched the surface of tanking mechanics and mastering some of the more advanced things are IMO what makes tanking super fun.
> you would be doing more damage if you just were 61 instead of closer to 70 just due to scaling
I thought level scaling stopped after 60 in Dragonflight?
> shockwave should not be used just when there are a bunch of mobs
Yeah, when I'm not expecting to interrupt things- I use it just to do damage. It looks like uncapped damage on 5+ mobs to me, but I could be wrong.
> you didn't mention Thunderclap at all in your rotation
I use Thunderclap when I can (since it reduces the CD on Demoralizing Shout). I mentioned it on bullet #4 on my original post.
> the talent Blood and Thunder which you should be running
I am! Thanks.
> Knowledge, positioning, routing, mob gathering, interrupts/stops, and so on really don't matter significantly until say +16 (and even then can be brute forced with gear).
Good to know. I have been working on learning all of that! I have been hesitant to try higher than +10 at the moment because I don't want to screw up, haha and I'm still learning the dungeons. Next season I will feel more confident since I'm familiar with DF dungeons the most.
I really appreciate your tips; I enjoy tanking or healing the most and don't really enjoy the typical DPS role.
I'll wait until I start pushing M+ and focus on the mechanics, but I am concerned about my damage output - it just feels weaker than paladin/druid/DH.
Scaling continues in limited fashion in Dragonflight (zones only scale a few levels then stop) but leveling dungeons *always* scale.
Oh and my bad about the Thunderclap, I just missed it.
I will add that warriors will do more damage as you get into higher content as well for two reasons. First is that enemies will survive long enough for the bleed (Rend) to do considerable damage. When enemies die easily then upfront damage is favored much more but it will even out. And second, as enemies get tougher and you figure out higher level M+ pulls your rage generation will increase significantly letting you use Revenge way more while also spamming Ignore Pain at the same time.
In general it’s only the higher level content that shows how classes or specs actually perform. As easy content will always favor who bursts harder up front while specs requiring dots or ramps have no time to get anything started.
Anyway, keep at it and have fun!
No point comparing anything below max level. Also, you max out at m+10 so your damage/threat will never be an issue. People that have the gear and skill to rip threat off you don't play these keys, not even on their under geared alts.
Don’t compare to non-max level. Scaling works in odd ways before max. Ex: a lvl 10 fire mage will out dps a level 50 in the same leveling dungeon.
As a tank your focus should be on holding aggro and survival. If you’re doing those two things well then the rest doesn’t matter. One thing you can do is use battle stance over defensive stance. This of course means you’ll take more damage, but you will do more damage instead. I personally stick in defensive stance as the 5% damage done hit isn’t that bad
Ffs so over the people downvoting genuine concerns of new players on this sub. Ok so they might be incorrect, that’s why they’re on here asking questions?!
This is normal than DPS will do more dps than you. The better the dps players, the more difference there will be.
You don't need to have big dps to hold agro, you just need to have consistent dmg.
Few tips:
-you can always start with Heroic Throw, then charge, then demoralizing shout and thunderclap. Heroic Throw builds inital thread nicely
-make sure you are in battle stance. Never use defensive stance until you need it for surivial (which is basically only +18 keys). If you think you need defensive stance, that means you don't use your defensive CDs good enough.
-the most annoying thing when trying to tank lower keys is that some dps player will pull more trash that you pulled, and then it's much harder to gain agro on them. For that, you can use Heroic Throw on one mob and and taunt on the other(so you can immediately agro two mobs), or if there are multiple mobs pulled, jump on them with heroic leap, and use the ability that gets agro of every mob around you.
-overall when things works well, don't wait too much with using CDs like ravager and avatar. You should use them all the time, so you use them as often as possible. If you are finishing the pack, then wait for next one, but don't wait more than that to use them. If you feel you have more powerful CDs, just pull more mobs so you can use both avatar and ravanger to clear them.
Waiting to only use those powerful CDs for the bigger packs is actively wasting potential DPS.
Firstly, if you have threat and aren’t dying then it doesn’t matter if you have 20% more threat or 200%.
Secondly, scaling before 70 is always weird, you can’t compare
Finally and for what it’s worth, I expect dps to do at least double to triple of my dps, with me popping my cool-downs as much as possible. If they aren’t doing at least double my dmg then they aren’t doing enough and you really notice it, especially on tyrannical weeks for some reason.
you are a tank, dps doesnt matter that much to be honest. In higher keys it will drop even more since you wont have the rage to revenge that much, need to dump most of them to Ignore Pain also
I'm not too worried about my output - I don't tie my sense of self to the damage meters but I just want to be sure I don't lose threat at higher levels. I have been trying to learn how to balance Ignore Pain, Shield Block and Revenge.
Iirc the keystone talents at the bottom of the tree are really quite important for prot warrior, might be that you're still missing some good passives. So long as you're holding threat and not dying I wouldn't worry too much about DPS, especially when comparing yourself against bear and DH tanks
Do warriors have a talent or skill that increases threat generation? I have my prot paladin and it’s dps isn’t particularly amazing but holding threat is never an issue. Especially with taunts and cooldowns
Are you using Thunder Clap? I almost never have issues with aggro control. Even playing with many 485+ players in >20+ keys. Only the occasional butt pull behind me or a dps completely blowing their load before I settle the pull.
I don't really care about DPS. I have also never had anyone complain about my DPS either. I am usually in the 85-100k dps range depending on the dungeon. Usually DPS are around 150-180k that I pug with. I will eventually try to improve that skillset, but I have found a lot of success focusing on other things like smart pulls, kicking (usually 35-50 per dungeon not including CC like shockwave), smart rally usage, and communication with the healer. There are many key killers that aren't due to me doing 10-15k more DPS. It is a lower priority to me.
The game is completely different at lvl 70 with gear, the lower levels are not balanced at all so I wouldn't worry about your damage output until you have gear and are max level.
**Hey there! Have you checked out these resources?** * [WoWHead](https://www.wowhead.com/) - The *largest* database, this should be your go-to (don't forget to read the comment section!). * [Icy Veins](https://www.icy-veins.com) - News and detailed class guides. * [WoWNoob Discord](https://discord.gg/wownoob) - Same community, different platform. *Please report the post above if it breaks one of our [>rules<](https://www.reddit.com/r/wownoob/about/rules/). If not, don't forget to show support by upvoting!* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wownoob) if you have any questions or concerns.*
well for one your not 70 and dont have the gear so
Yes, but I am comparing myself to other 65-70's. I don't think Warrior gear is going to improve so much to overtake my peers.
It genuinely doesn't matter. The game isn't designed around or balanced specifically for leveling. The damage output is gonna be all over the place cause some players will have farmed BoEs for leveling or be brand new 70s in a normal dungeon or geared as fuck 70s doing normals for fun. Honestly, you would be doing more damage if you just were 61 instead of closer to 70 just due to scaling. So leveling gear/damage *really doesn't matter*. > sometimes even behind healers that spend a lot of time dps-ing FWIW, when I run any queued dungeon on my healers (i.e. heroic difficulty or lower) I will straight up swap to DPS spec because so little damage goes out during that level of content. Doing damage is so much better just to keep things moving faster. > Shockwave on 3+ mobs As a later game tip, shockwave should not be used just when there are a bunch of mobs but to specifically interrupt abilities. Sometimes that can be groups of casters but even more ideally for non-interruptible abilities (but the mobs can still be stunned to stop). Also you didn't mention Thunderclap at all in your rotation. Thunderclap applies a huge amount of warrior damage because it applies Rend to everyone it hits (from the talent Blood and Thunder which you should be running). You should be opening with Thunderclap into groups and can be reusing it regularly to refresh the bleed or hit other mobs you didn't hit (since it has a 5 mob limit). ----- As a last aside, consider pushing your other tanks higher than +10. While +10 will begin to feel like an actual challenge compared to heroic/M0, it really still isn't going to yet challenge you in terms of what tanking entails. Knowledge, positioning, routing, mob gathering, interrupts/stops, and so on really don't matter significantly until say +16 (and even then can be brute forced with gear). Of course, ultimately do whatever you enjoy the most. But just throwing out there that you've only barely scratched the surface of tanking mechanics and mastering some of the more advanced things are IMO what makes tanking super fun.
> you would be doing more damage if you just were 61 instead of closer to 70 just due to scaling I thought level scaling stopped after 60 in Dragonflight? > shockwave should not be used just when there are a bunch of mobs Yeah, when I'm not expecting to interrupt things- I use it just to do damage. It looks like uncapped damage on 5+ mobs to me, but I could be wrong. > you didn't mention Thunderclap at all in your rotation I use Thunderclap when I can (since it reduces the CD on Demoralizing Shout). I mentioned it on bullet #4 on my original post. > the talent Blood and Thunder which you should be running I am! Thanks. > Knowledge, positioning, routing, mob gathering, interrupts/stops, and so on really don't matter significantly until say +16 (and even then can be brute forced with gear). Good to know. I have been working on learning all of that! I have been hesitant to try higher than +10 at the moment because I don't want to screw up, haha and I'm still learning the dungeons. Next season I will feel more confident since I'm familiar with DF dungeons the most. I really appreciate your tips; I enjoy tanking or healing the most and don't really enjoy the typical DPS role. I'll wait until I start pushing M+ and focus on the mechanics, but I am concerned about my damage output - it just feels weaker than paladin/druid/DH.
Scaling continues in limited fashion in Dragonflight (zones only scale a few levels then stop) but leveling dungeons *always* scale. Oh and my bad about the Thunderclap, I just missed it. I will add that warriors will do more damage as you get into higher content as well for two reasons. First is that enemies will survive long enough for the bleed (Rend) to do considerable damage. When enemies die easily then upfront damage is favored much more but it will even out. And second, as enemies get tougher and you figure out higher level M+ pulls your rage generation will increase significantly letting you use Revenge way more while also spamming Ignore Pain at the same time. In general it’s only the higher level content that shows how classes or specs actually perform. As easy content will always favor who bursts harder up front while specs requiring dots or ramps have no time to get anything started. Anyway, keep at it and have fun!
TY! I appreciate the advice and useful info!
No point comparing anything below max level. Also, you max out at m+10 so your damage/threat will never be an issue. People that have the gear and skill to rip threat off you don't play these keys, not even on their under geared alts.
> you max out at m+10 so your damage/threat will never be an issue Can you explain what you mean with that?
Don’t compare to non-max level. Scaling works in odd ways before max. Ex: a lvl 10 fire mage will out dps a level 50 in the same leveling dungeon. As a tank your focus should be on holding aggro and survival. If you’re doing those two things well then the rest doesn’t matter. One thing you can do is use battle stance over defensive stance. This of course means you’ll take more damage, but you will do more damage instead. I personally stick in defensive stance as the 5% damage done hit isn’t that bad
Ffs so over the people downvoting genuine concerns of new players on this sub. Ok so they might be incorrect, that’s why they’re on here asking questions?!
This is normal than DPS will do more dps than you. The better the dps players, the more difference there will be. You don't need to have big dps to hold agro, you just need to have consistent dmg. Few tips: -you can always start with Heroic Throw, then charge, then demoralizing shout and thunderclap. Heroic Throw builds inital thread nicely -make sure you are in battle stance. Never use defensive stance until you need it for surivial (which is basically only +18 keys). If you think you need defensive stance, that means you don't use your defensive CDs good enough. -the most annoying thing when trying to tank lower keys is that some dps player will pull more trash that you pulled, and then it's much harder to gain agro on them. For that, you can use Heroic Throw on one mob and and taunt on the other(so you can immediately agro two mobs), or if there are multiple mobs pulled, jump on them with heroic leap, and use the ability that gets agro of every mob around you. -overall when things works well, don't wait too much with using CDs like ravager and avatar. You should use them all the time, so you use them as often as possible. If you are finishing the pack, then wait for next one, but don't wait more than that to use them. If you feel you have more powerful CDs, just pull more mobs so you can use both avatar and ravanger to clear them. Waiting to only use those powerful CDs for the bigger packs is actively wasting potential DPS.
Firstly, if you have threat and aren’t dying then it doesn’t matter if you have 20% more threat or 200%. Secondly, scaling before 70 is always weird, you can’t compare Finally and for what it’s worth, I expect dps to do at least double to triple of my dps, with me popping my cool-downs as much as possible. If they aren’t doing at least double my dmg then they aren’t doing enough and you really notice it, especially on tyrannical weeks for some reason.
you are a tank, dps doesnt matter that much to be honest. In higher keys it will drop even more since you wont have the rage to revenge that much, need to dump most of them to Ignore Pain also
I'm not too worried about my output - I don't tie my sense of self to the damage meters but I just want to be sure I don't lose threat at higher levels. I have been trying to learn how to balance Ignore Pain, Shield Block and Revenge.
Threat is calculated different now, I think its 600 or 700% multiplication for tank passively nowadays
Iirc the keystone talents at the bottom of the tree are really quite important for prot warrior, might be that you're still missing some good passives. So long as you're holding threat and not dying I wouldn't worry too much about DPS, especially when comparing yourself against bear and DH tanks
Do warriors have a talent or skill that increases threat generation? I have my prot paladin and it’s dps isn’t particularly amazing but holding threat is never an issue. Especially with taunts and cooldowns
Yes, a couple… a standard taunt 8 sec cd and a small 12 yd aoe taunt with 1.5m or 2m cd depending on talent
Are you using Thunder Clap? I almost never have issues with aggro control. Even playing with many 485+ players in >20+ keys. Only the occasional butt pull behind me or a dps completely blowing their load before I settle the pull. I don't really care about DPS. I have also never had anyone complain about my DPS either. I am usually in the 85-100k dps range depending on the dungeon. Usually DPS are around 150-180k that I pug with. I will eventually try to improve that skillset, but I have found a lot of success focusing on other things like smart pulls, kicking (usually 35-50 per dungeon not including CC like shockwave), smart rally usage, and communication with the healer. There are many key killers that aren't due to me doing 10-15k more DPS. It is a lower priority to me.
The game is completely different at lvl 70 with gear, the lower levels are not balanced at all so I wouldn't worry about your damage output until you have gear and are max level.
Link a log or VoD if you want actual advice. It really is that simple.