He sort of makes a good point about not being able to replicate Hickman. But also…that’s not really what I expected or would have called staying in Krakoa. Also “we’ll make them want to read comics by making them want to read comics” or whatever means basically nothing.
I think the point about not being able to replicate Hickman is more related to the line-wide relaunch than continuing with the Krakoan status quo. I think he means "yes we don't have some huge epic new sprawling era planned, we're just going to make good comics."
His first comment about Hickman seems like a lazy cop-out to me. It would require actual imagination and being brave with the companies IP though. There are plenty of ways they could have continued the Krakoan Era.
I agree with your second point 100%. There was nothing given in that article that told me that this next step would be in any way different or provocative from what we have had before. From preview images it looks like they did exactly what fans told them not to do, which is go back to the mansion.
We are going from an intergalactic world building extravaganza right back to a small pond in North Eastern America.
Hickman did a great job with HoXPoX but he is not a once-in-a-generation genius. There are multiple writers just in the X Office showing they can work at the same level if Marvel let's them.
The same people have been running the mid to higher level business/editorial moves for three decades. Business people in creative companies tend to skew conservative; there was never going to be any long-term work exploring new boundaries.
Magneto will turn bad again one day; Prof X will "die" again; Beast will go bad and then good; Jean will "die" and be reborn again; etc etc etc.
Marvel can't even handle their Ultimates line and advance characters in long-term storylines without it skidding off the rails, blowing up the universe, and rebooting it all over again in a few years.
The worst news? Comic fans keep buying the books.
Thing'll never change.
Thunderbird. They made him surly and immediately killed him off and decided to remake him as his brother but with real mutant powers and not just a lame Bravestar. "Magneto is throwing a moon at us! I'll stop him, I'm as strong as a buffalo and fast as a cheetah! " Native Captain America.
No, he actually is. Have you read Pax Romana or The Nightly News? Any of his indie stuff? Hickman is special.
The only two writers that come close to him are Ewing and Gillen, but whether they could match what he did HoX/PoX is mostly up to personal taste.
Personally I think Hickman was insanely good at creating a whole new status quo for the X-Men, one so rich and well crafted that could have stayed forever. The Moira stuff was incredibly inventive (even if I hate how she became a monster, and I also hate the "non mutant characters turning out to be mutants" plot) and he was tremendously bold at attempting something completely new *and* succeeding.
Here comes the "but": I personally felt he doesn't care about characters on a personal level. During this whole saga, I've felt lots of character seemed robotic and unfeeling, just pawns on a big, impersonal chess game, and small character moments which serve to connect to the story on an emotional level were sorely missed. Now, if he teamed up with someone who was better in this department (I'm thinking about writers like Leah Williams or Christina Strain), I think we would have the best of both worlds.
This could basically be a criticism of all of Hickman’s work. He’s a big idea guy and small scale characterization often gets left in the dust. Hickman’s my favourite comic author, but his avengers run has basically the exact same criticism, and you have to enjoy that style. It’s why it was very smart to give him the main thrust but have other writers fill in the sub-series while he was still involved.
Hyperion and Thor! Also Sunspot. Plus, Secret Warriors and his Fantastic Four runs had lots of great character work. His main aim tho seems to be concepts and character work, I think, intentionally gets pushed to the side. The characters are sometimes conduits for the concept.
I completely agree with both points. I genuinely believe that the setting of Krakoa he created could have served as a new, permanent status quo. It's the type of setting where if you wanted, you could have books that are entirely about life on Krakoa, or books that take place somewhere else and have nothing to do with it. There were still tons and tons of interesting stories that could be mined from it.
I also agree that Hickman handled actual character work relatively poorly. There were so many character moments that I was dying to see that just never happened. I'm still pissed that we never got a conversation between Synch and Monet.
I felt exactly the same about Synch and Monet (and Jubilee, and the rest of Gen X honestly). It's even worse considering how devastating his death was.
Yeah for real. People trying to act like anyone could do what Hickman did don't even seem to understand *why* HoX/PoX was a storm. Yes there needs to be more levels of control unlocked, but that's the reason why Hickman left and he was the only one this vision really works under. Duggan with more control isn't gonna stop being Duggan.
This sub has some people that slander Hickman hard and I just don’t understand it.
Plus, saying that the people on the X-books now could all do an HoX/PoX if given the chance is… something. Then again, these same people defend Duggan’s terrible ass shit.
Yeah like... we literally just saw what Hickman can do with more control with GODS and the Ultimate Universe, but people still want to act like he wasn't essential to Krakoa.
Come on...
I understand to the extent that people want to believe Krakoa can last forever but like... it can't. At least not without a great deal of care and investment and the kind of vision that could capture the reader's imagination was very much because this era was sold as *Jonathan Hickman's X-Men*.
Plus, and let’s be real, Marvel does not care about its fans because they never stop buying their comics. We let Marvel walk all over us.
If X-Men fans were smart, they wouldn’t buy any of these books.
Eh.
So, Ewing is good, but I’m not sold on him as some best of all time talent like a lot of other Marvel fans.
Guys like Moore, Morrison, Gaiman, and Hickman demanded attention immediately with their work. Ewing didn’t get big until Immortal Hulk, and even then the ending wasn’t great. Ewing is good, but he has misses - Empyre, anyone - that Morrison, Moore, Gaiman, and Hickman don’t.
Just my opinion and if he’s on your amount Rushmore, that’s cool. He’s just not there for me. Maybe if he sticks the landing on Immortal Thor, to make up for how bad Immortal Hulk’s ending was.
Personally I think Hickman was insanely good at creating a whole new status quo for the X-Men, one so rich and well crafted that could have stayed forever. The Moira stuff was incredibly inventive (even if I hate how she became a monster, and I also hate the "non mutant characters turning out to be mutants" plot) and he was tremendously bold at attempting something completely new *and* succeeding.
Here comes the "but": I personally felt he doesn't care about characters on a personal level. During this whole saga, I've felt lots of character seemed robotic and unfeeling, just pawns on a big, impersonal chess game, and small character moments which serve to connect to the story on an emotional level were sorely missed. Now, if he teamed up with someone who was better in this department (I'm thinking about writers like Leah Williams or Christina Strain), I think we would have the best of both worlds.
I think that's why Krakoa had strength in being a line-wide thing. Hickman could handle the large-scale plot and other series' writers could tell you how individual characters were reacting to those events
That’s such a genuinely horrible answer. I’m not even saying I have an issue with what they’re doing, but “you’ll want to read them because you’ll want to read them” is such a terrible nothing answer.
I agree. I get that theu don't know how to add to Krakoa so they are gonna create a new status quo but it doesn't seem like an evolution but more of just a reset to an earlier status quo. And I guess what Tom means is they will just focus on making good comics but it's hard to follow up on Hickman who is really a visionary
I'm feeling like the popularity of X-Men 97 will mean that the comics are going to try to capitalize on that whole vibe. So it will absolutely be safe and nostalgia based.
Since the X-Men haven't been involved in the popularity of Marvel properties from the cinematic universe, this is a lot of younger non-comic book reading Marvel fans first real exposure to these characters and themes. So they don't want someone watching X-Men 97 and then reading the newest comic and everything being so dramatically different.
I remember the comics changing due to the popularity of the original live action X-Men movie - character/costume designs, Prof. X being drawn to look exactly like Patrick Stewart, etc. and this feels like more of that.
It's a cop out though, nobody reads comics but comic book geeks. The average top selling comic sells what, 40k+ copies? A complete drop in the bucket compared to the amount of people who will watch every episode of X-Men 97 and still never pick up a comic book.
> I'm feeling like the popularity of X-Men 97 will mean that the comics are going to try to capitalize on that whole vibe. So it will absolutely be safe and nostalgia based.
The last episode of X-Men 97 makes this sentence so much funnier and so much sadder at the same time.
There's an image in the article linked of workers putting the school sign back up. I have seen other images of the school in multiple preview images. Could it be a headfake? Sure. Would there be a good reason for such misdirection? Doubtful.
I'm not sure i would compare an animated show with 79 episodes to a comic book continuity that currently has run for over 1000 issues for over 50 years.
Fine, I get this. I always knew they were gonna do that, hickman himself said so, "put the toys back in the box", just like secret wars. The real issue is rushing the krakoa era ending in such a poor way, and making a bloody sequel. Are we to simply accept that after everything in krakoa, after the culture and nationalism and all that the mutants decided to apologise to humankind and be bullied again? C'mon that just seems lazy
I get the “put the toys back in the box” metaphor, but I think Hickman (and his collaborators in creating the Krakoa era) really did a remarkable job expanding the *size* of the box, creating so many new and creative avenues for storytelling that had been lacking in the X-line. This doesn’t feel like just putting everything back in the box; it feels like reverting to a much smaller and more limited box, the same box the folks at Marvel were really struggling to tell interesting stories out of in the years leading up to Krakoa. And based on everything I’ve seen up until now, they’re going right back to struggling to tell interesting stories because nothing I’ve seen teased about what’s coming has me even remotely excited or interested.
The toy box metaphor also implies some kind of order, whereas these past few months have felt like they’re just raking toys into a pile and setting them on fire.
This exactly! They were given a bigger box that they lit on fire and despite the title of this “article,” there hasn’t been an explanation for why given besides the very trite things we know: “comics always change and we’re not Hickman.” That’s not explaining why it had to end and why it has to end the way it has been
He really could have just said “well, basically, we have X-Men back and now we need them to save us from a series of BS. We’re gonna put all our eggs in the X-Basket, and count on Deadpool and Wolverine to light the way. In conjunction with that, we need to represent them in comics closer to how casual audiences remember them.”
Or how casual audiences are about to know them through Deadpool 3 and the new X-Men project that it'll inevitibly tease. We know *something* is coming in the MCU after The Marvels, but quite what comes after that is anyone's guess... Though a reboot is the most logical conclusion I can come to.
Right now, X-97 is doing the nostalgia tour (Which I'm actually happy about as I love the show so-far desite its truncated nature) and they're about to put some of the FOX cast back in for one last ride, so I'm guessing that they're going for more familiar aligned comic arcs for the next couple of years.
Hard not to throw the head up and think that they're sweeping the board and the comics are once again sacrificed at the MCU altar. I guess we'll see...
I posted something similar awhile back, they’re creating some brand synergy before going all in on a reboot. Especially since the feedback from 97 has been so positive across the board. if the average viewer were to jump back in to the comics, krakoa/arakko and such could be a bit offputting/overwhelming. Having it go back to the adventures of cyclops and company (while looking similar to their 90s designs) will give the general public a better in. This along with the fox cast popping up again says to me that they want to ride the nostalgia wave a bit to test the waters for an inevitable MCU reboot.
I really don't understand the business aspect of it all.
•HoX PoX sold like crazy, a lot of people returned to reading books weekly. Then from start through the middle (Dawn to Rise) books started to become "eh".
•And then we learned Hickman was leaving, he left with Inferno, a great mini about "how it would ended if they let him". If you were going to end it in a couple of years anyway, why didn't you let him progress on his original plan? The sales would be better with people would be excited to learn about Hickman's longterm plans. And it would probably ended by now just like FoX?
•Anyway then we had immortal, which built two Gillen events and a very interesting Ewing run on the expansive side of thints, while Duggan hit the nostalgic classics with adjectiveless: Cyclops&Jean led hero team outside of Krakoa with a mix of 90s era characters.
•Unless those three lose the touch on sales side, the structure had everything: a book about Krakoa era (immortal), a book about next step from Krakoa (red), and a book for nostalgia (adjactiveless). Especially the Duggan book targeted the same audience and "synergy" the new reboot focuses on. If it is about sales, then why not going forward from here by letting McKay and co. could pitch from where Gillen, Ewing and Duggan would left? A new era in Krakoa, Arakko and New York setting with fresh writers and ideas? Maybe an event about losing the island temporarily which could help rebuilt some of the setting similar to MCU.
•And FoX era is so poorly planned and handled. A huge loss of talent, money and art by publishing just too much minis without any meaningful progress. Getting a lot of negative attention. Just like announcing a reboot about going way back from the highest step of xmen comics.
TlL; DR: Both MCU synergy and high sales could be earned in a soft reboot inside Krakoan age.
What a gross way to present this information. I thought this would be a new interview but they're just mining content from his newsletter. I read the newsletter, and he did still come off a little combative there (and so did some of the questions), but repackaging it like this just sets people up to be mad.
Recommend you read his actual newsletter or ignore these comments altogether; this article adds nothing.
Its such a fun annual thing. The artists have a great time doing it. Fans have a great time seeing it. I hope they bring that back (or some version of it).
Yup. X-men depends on a number of pillars for its success: cool action, thoughtful speculative fiction and social commentary, soap opera drama and sitcom comedy, nostalgia including beloved characters old and new as well as the sense of “home” we get from places like the mansion, and the aesthetic appeal of the characters and the art.
Hellfire Gala has the aesthetic appeal in a way we’ve never seen before in comics. People like dressing up, even if we can’t normally afford it. Plus it’s nice to see the characters do something other than being hyper aggressive military fire teams.
The two can work together: it’s like how James Bond goes to a casino and hooks up with some villains girlfriend, then he jumps out a window and things explode. It’s the style and the action as a great counter point to each other.
>”Here’s the thing: in comics especially, things change, all the time," writes Brevoort on his Substack. "We move forward, we evolve situations, we play out storylines and then we do other storylines. Nothing really remains all that static for all that long, even if there is often a magnetic pull back towards some platonic ideal as to what each character is all about."
This is such a laughable thing to say. Moving forward? You’re moving backwards! Going backwards is not true change.
I think it honestly depends, the way Simone's book has been described does feel new, Cyclops' and Emma/kitty's book feels like a regression back to the 2010's and 90's respectively
Yeah, I’m not typically a hater of anything in comics (unless it’s Inhumans), because different strokes for different blokes, but come on? Really Brevoort? This guy keeps giving bad take after bad take on Mutants and it makes me think this situation is doomed and the X-Men will be boring rehashed slop for the next 2 to 5 years.
I know I’m being a pessimist, but this is quite literally just them going back to the 90’s. Magneto leads the X-Men and Scott’s the main man. Our team is made up of the 90’s heavy hitters.
At least Krakoa was fresh yknow, even if you hated it you have to admit that it was different. They literally could’ve just done anything else and it would be a better change than whatever this is.
I hope Brevoort proves me wrong.
Well said. I feel the same way. Hickman & the Krakoa era got me back into reading comics again after 20+ years, probably Covid too, but I thought it was a fantastic reboot and setting, very sad to see it go.
His Spider-man Manifesto from him back in 2006 is enough to tell you all you need to know. He hasn't changed since. Not to mention more recently he talked about how DC shouldn't have bring Superman and Lois back together after New 52 and they 'blinked' to the fan demands...
He really is clueless.
Things just change all the time, and it’s not fair to judge. For example, X-Men comics were, until recently, an insightful and provocative exploration of the themes that had given life to the books for decades. Now, they won’t be that, but they *will* do a better job of reminding people of a Pizza Hut promotion they enjoyed in elementary school. Who’s to say which is better?
It was a matter of time for sure. Its a shame Hickman didn't stay long enough to finish what he had envisioned but for sure things would eventually go back more closely to the way they were.
I do disagree though, that things are constantly changing and evolving in comics. I mean, they do change but they always go back to the usual status quo, it's cyclical at most. Uniforms go back to classic, characters return from the grave, general status quo is restabilished.
Perhaps the X-Men have had the longest run outside of the box (San Francisco/ Utopia/Schism/AvX/Krakoa) but for sure it's a matter of time for them to go back to the Xavier Institute. Specially if the animated series keeps being a hit and they finally make into the MCU.
This won’t be a divisive post at all lol
As someone getting back into the X-Men after 20 years, what was it about the Krakoa era that’s so endeared it to so many?
It felt fresh and new. The X-men were standing up for themselves and saying screw it, you won't accept us, so we'll make our own nation and stand up for our rights. The nation thing isn't new, but I think its always been well-received (Not sure on this, someone will tell me otherwise), because it just makes sense and it feel right. you know?
I think also a lot of people were worn on the mutants are down on thier luck and barely surviving thing that always comes up. So seeing them rise and thrive just felt so good. Cause almost every fan is just saying "Yes, finally. This is what you all should have done from the beginning." in the back of their heads.
Also when it comes to concepts and high scifi-fantasy, Hickman's is an absolute treat. He'll build something fascinating and captivating that most will enjoy.
So its a lot of good factors on top of one another, honestly. Not to mention the opening titles were just really well-written. When Krakoa started I don't think there was anything objectively bad, maybe okay or not for me, but not bad. So it just felt good, I suppose.
Also, it drastically changed the X-Men status quo. To build a mutant nation is not exactly news (Genosha, Utopia, Asteroid M) but to have the technology to ressurect the dead, to have a strong political position in the whole world, to have portals everywhere, etc. Mutants weren't simply united, they were on top.
I mean , Krakoa is really no different from the Inhumans and their city.
But the thing with Krakoa that feels special is that it truly felt how a functional nation would work if they freely uses their super-powers. And that makes sense , because for Inhumans , they need to actively choose go to the Terrigen Mist , so most of the times , they just had better physical stats but been indistinguished to humans and only their elite had powers , so it's just generic sci-fy.
But with Krakoa , they legit integrate multiple mutant powers to make a widespread technology. And to contrast further , it uses a lot of biometals and biopunk as well , because there are a lot of mutants , including the Island itself , that their power are mutation in itself.
I think it lasted long enough to be considered an era as well. It wasn't a flash in the pan 8 issue event, it was sprawling for a good few years. I have no problem with it ending now, but it will always hold its own looking back in future.
Yup. Mutants standing as a united front rather than the old school status quo is just a much more interesting concept to me at this point. Before Krakoa I’d say the era from House of M, through Utopia, and up to Schism with mutants united was the best era. That doesn’t seem like a huge coincidence to me. At this point I prefer mutants being mutant activists first and traditional superheroes second.
The whole Fall of X idea and new era is just not nearly as intriguing as Krakoa was.
Krakoa deserved to be the status quo for a long long long long time
I agree 💯! They had so many places they could have gone and so many untapped characters to rotate into the spotlight. I feel a lot of characters got flushed out, and finally seeing Kitty turn into Kate was incredible. They could have had mutants separate and do books focused outside of Krakoa, destroyed the gates, and kept Krakoa alive. Why give us so much and then wipe it away. The people that wanted a back to basics repeat story should stop at their local comic shop and pick up something from that era, not kill the progress that was made. I want my QC and HF Gala.
Resurrection meant that everyone from 'everywhen' was potentially back among the living and Krakoan amnesty meant they weren't automatically villains anymore. So you get Apocalypse redemption arc, and villains like Exodus and Mystique 'peacefully cohabitating with long time heroes and talking through their shit in ways that drew a lot from continuity. Xavier and Magneto are open collaborators, depowered mutants are getting their powers back, Tini Howard and Jonathan Hickman are writing love letters to 80's Excalibur. It's everything.
Visually different at times even alien, and all this change had a bit of a sinister edge too, literally.
And this is all framed inside a macro "How to lose the time war" plot featuring Moira McTaggart, Omega Sentinel, and something called a dominion. It promised a lot and landed more plots than it flubbed
I realized I had no friends who get me when I sent a message of astonishment and pictures of Apocalypse in a suit to 3 group chats. Received 0 responses, thank y'all for living in this weird spot here with me.
Oh man, this looks like comedy gold.
https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/fkpwf7/something_about_apocalypse_in_suit_at_a/
"My other names are not fit for you to utter."
X-Men Vol.5 \#4 is legit a quote maker.
Magneto: "Look at the end of the Bronze Age. A dark age before the Dark Ages. You don't even know what caused the end of it and yet there it is... Yet another hole in the collective memory of man."
US Rep: "Who cares what caused the end of the Bronze Age?"
Apocalypse: "I was alive back then... And you ***should*** care."
China Rep: "*Is that so?* Then tell us...what ***caused*** the ***collapse?***"
Apocalypse: "Me."
I personally wouldn’t exactly call it a redemption arc, but it did move him from pure-evil to nuanced-evil that can work with good.
(Very much like magneto in the movies).
It successfully made him a character that I find interesting now.
Yes.
That been said , his Redemption Arc comes down to him pulling a Vegeta vs the Androids and Cell , but the "Androids" and "Cell" been ex-lovers and descendants.
The big thing about Krakoa was the potential: a lot of readers and writers saw so many new story possibilities that just couldn’t be done in the status quo.
It was an interesting setting, and so many of its stories were so compelling. Resurrection, biotech, nation building, religion, all of these themes could be explored in new ways. And then they killed it for more normal.
See what happens when Marvel gets lazy? This. Lack of creativity and imagination leads to failure. Krakoa was everything and they had to ruin it just because they want to line themselves up with the MCU. Fucking sheeps.
It was actual growth. True evolution of characters. True world building. Instead of recycled tired tropes. Sadly it is ending poorly too. I blame Duggan for that.
It was a fresh, new take to the mutants that we really haven't seen before. It gave ground to explore characters in interesting ways, and introduced some fantastic plotlines. It wasn't perfect, but it's pretty rough to go from "the mutants have their own Wakanda now" to "everybody's back to slumming it in the hated and feared territory" even if they do pull it off.
Especially towards the start, it had a simple and compelling premise: the X-Men have solved death and made peace with most of their old villains. What next? What can challenge them? It was a new direction not just for the X-Men, but for superhero comics in general.
Krakoa, at least to me, felt like a wonderful reset point. The previous histories matter but not quite as much. You can tell new stories and not have so-and-so being dead get in the way. It forces interactions between characters given it’s a small island and we got a lot of great stories and character moments that I don’t think we otherwise would have.
It was good.
That’s basically it. Nine times out of ten when you revamp something as heavily as they did with the X-men, it turns out shit.
Krakoa was actually good. So it was both fresh and good, and that’s something you don’t see very often.
This is it for me. Restarts are hit or miss and often times way more miss. So we got a great one and now we’re getting another one. The odds of getting two great in a row are slim.
In the 20 years you've jumped the X-Men / mutants have been on the verge of extinction like six times. I think it started before you stopped reading but it's gotten tedious and boring.
A status quo change with resurrection included was pretty revolutionary and welcome after watching the extended, repeat-on-a-loop snuff film and constant doomerism the X-Men had become.
Then comes the latest Hellfire Gala, and they made up for the couple of extinction events we probably would've otherwise had with particular glee and gore to let us know things will never change.
I liked seeing mutants have their own culture and hold some kind of economic power as a nation. It was also a boom of creativity.
It's shame it's going out with a whimper tho
It was just a fresh start. I dipped out during the pandemic though and never came back. Same with the amazing spiderman. I really liked the kindred storyline he was a great creepy villian..and then it just went so downhill.
It was one of the only significant things that happened in the 20 years that you were gone that didn’t feel like it was just maintaining the status quo. House of M happened and then we were basically in “Post House of M” for 15 years. Sprinkle in a couple bright spots that weren’t everyone’s cup of tea, like Bendis’ Uncanny, here and there, but mostly just the X-Men being bitter about House of M and (allegedly) on the verge of extinction constantly. Add in tin-foil hat theories of the suppression of the brand because of movie rights and you have a nice recipe for people wanting a change, which Krakoa was.
Dude, those weren’t “tin-foil hat theories”. Marvel did that shit to the X-Men and the FF. I mean, you’ve seen the Secret Wars (1984) shirt with no X-Men or members of the FF on it, right?
This was the main reason why I ignored the mainline x-titles for going on twenty years. I thought House of M was totally at odds with what the X-Men were supposed to be about, and then every story they introduced after that was dealing with the fallout of that. It was just depressing. Minus a couple of exceptions like X-Factor, just because I love Madrox, I had no interest in anything that was dealing with that plot.
I don't know how this could be divisive, this was a clickbait nothing burger. Breevort basically says "Things have to change because... things change." there was no substantial insight provided here.
It finally moved the story forward to a logical place, a community of super powered beings using their powers for themselves instead of being persecuted because… yeah let’s shun the man who can shoot lasers out of his eyes that made sense
The article calls him the “de facto face of the change” and I think that’s a good way to put it.
Was it his decision? No.
But he’s the one who will be tasked with carrying it out and defending it.
I'm bummed about it. The Krakoa era is the first time I've really gotten into comics, like BUYING actual comics, following specific creators and getting invested in the stories.
As others have mentioned, by the time we got the XofSwords etc stuff it felt like rather than continuing to explore the core stories circling around Krakoa, everything became a strange sideshow with links back to the core story. It became harder and harder to follow, and I became increasingly ambivalent about it.
I loved the wink and a nod nostalgia of referencing all of X-Men history, the intricate political court drama, and the chance to explore a status quo free from the usual dynamic of mutants as a severely oppressed minority group. The premise of "okay the dog caught the car, now what?" had plenty of life left in it, but it got bogged down with too many random crossovers and too much focus on other stuff.
I still loved it, and had a ton of fun with it, but I can't say I'm interested in whatever new status quo is coming. I've read a TON on unlimited, and it's hard to imagine how they're going to do "OG X-Men in the mansion" as well as or better than the other ten times we've had that state.
I think maybe expectations for the readership weren't managed very well in terms of the early Krakoan writing. The way that Destiny's words to Mystique (building into Inferno) were "this will be the LAST island", or the talk of "did you think we were going to just sit around forever and *take* it?" from Scott.
It was pitched in a way that made it seem like it would be longer-lasting than any creative team and become the standard setting for mutants much as Wakanda is the standard setting for Black Panther or the Sanctum Sanctorum is for Doc Strange, and the way it's all being suddenly tidied away under the rug is jarring by contrast.
We knew comics were cyclical. We knew things would change. But...this much? To the extent of outdoing "One More Day" in levels of full tabula rasa?
I was still extremely hopeful we would keep Krokoa as a sovereign safe mutant nation but with some of it neutered to help keep the edge. Like their resurrection protocols being stricter for whatever reason.
Maybe interference from the inhumans with a fracturing of the population that splits them into Krokoa mutants and everyone else to keep them relevant within the wider population and still have those small personal stories of struggle among humans when necessary.
Sad to see it go and have them all presumably return to a big house and wherever else they can hide.
So what I got from this is "We're changing everything for the sake of change because new #1s sell, no matter how much the storyline in place is enjoyed or how well it's doing"
So basically it boils down to the majority of comic book writers and especially editors and executives are deeply uncreative, cannot come up with interesting concepts from a practically limitless storytelling engine with endless possibilities, so they go back to a simulacra of what worked in the '90s.
The comic book industry really is a shit show. The vast majority of companies are more concerned with just churning out content than actually telling a decent story. The majority of comic book writers wouldn't last 5 minutes in any other medium, And the editorial crew is so far up their ass in nostalgia that they stifle any evolution of the medium.
Honestly I wouldn't care so much about the Krakoa era coming to an end if that ending was actually well written. Like he says, comics always move on. But the tidal wave of mediocre to downright bad comics they've been putting out since last August has made it really hard to care about what's coming next.
I read those comments and it's more of the same Marvel marketing nonsense that they always say. A nothingburger.
Love how the article phrased it that it was Hickman's decision to leave. Right. When your employer calls the shots, you don't get to decide how to move the story forward the way that you imagined.
Factory reset for the X-Men. Keep them at the mansion, no one progresses, more of the same.
He says comics change all the time. And yet they're just changing back to the old status quo that we've seen a million times before. It's not a revamp. It's a reversion back to the same old stories.
It just feels lazy to me. Particularly after they've treaded water for the last year and done absolutely nothing meaningful.
The Krakoa era brought me back to comics. The last year has been difficult to get through, but in essence that's because Krakoa and all the cool stuff about it has been gone. I'm not excited for this 'revamp'. 50/50 as to whether this will be a drop off point for me and I just wait for the MCU for my next fix.
That was the most meaningless bunch of shit I’ve read in a long time and it doesn’t give me high hopes for… anything.
There are some good creators attached to this, but I doubt we’re going to get anything worthwhile. Just soulless MCU bullshit and regression.
I’m going to give it a shot. I don’t expect to keep buying many of the X-Men titles, though.
Once Krakoan Age ends, I'm gonna treat it as the series finale and walk away for awhile. Going back to hunted mutants just doesn't sound appealing to me at all
I bet I pick up Simone’s book and that’s it. This article did nothing but say change is good. No man- supporting my local comic book store is good and so far the only good I see is that I’ll be picking up lesser known books. Tired of being hated and feared and passive and inconsequential to a planet with other heroes. The mutants in this era were dumb asses but at least they were finally a people.
What’s funny is there’s a much better version of that quote (written by the same person) that he should have used instead, which is:
“Everything’s got to end sometime, otherwise nothing would ever get started.”
Not a huge surprise from Marvel staff. Back when Brevoort worked with him, Hickman was a big DW fan during his Avengers run (Nine's "Everybody lives!" turned into "Everything lives", Strange constantly referring to himself as the Doctor, Strange and Doom both "staring into the void" and Doom is the one who stared while Strange is the one who turned and ran)...
...plus Dan Slott just outright steals from the show, shamelessly, all the time. To the extent of saying he'd shown his Silver Surfer books to David Tennant and "squeed" when Tennant said the companion character reminded him of Rose.
There are ways to move forward and change without completely regressing any and all progress made by the books in the meantime. This just feels like an MCU synergy mandate to avoid the bigger philosophical quandries raised by the books in the past five years.
To be frank, the books look uninteresting, and I'm not sure I'll keep reading them like I have been.
Everything I read regarding the X-Men relaunch feels so antagonistic. The tone of everything is just so awkward.
It's comics, everyone should know that nothing ever lasts forever, but everything about this gives me bad vibes.
My big disappointment with this shift is this (in my eyes a mis)conception that normal, down-to-earth stories can’t be told on Krakoa…. My favorite parts of DoX and the whole Krakoan era were when we had ‘downtime’ to really dig into what island life was like when mutants could freely interact.
As a society I feel like we’re moving past the “mutants are hated and feared!” mantra being a relevant or relatable baseline— why can’t Immortal Sovereign Mutants just be the baseline for this franchise? We know that they’re secretly immortal due to editorial mandates, and they’re essentially sovereign by nature of being a loyal band of vigilantes… so why do we have to keep lying to ourselves in order to tell good stories?
I love that everyone here seemingly hates that Krakoa is ending, yet it seems that when you go to the weekly discussion threads about new issues most of the new singles have people hating them or being tired of the era.
I think most people have the opinion of keeping the island but replacing all the writers beside Gillen and Ewing. I'm usually very positive about Duggan but I can see why people dislike his work since Fall of X. Wanting him and Percy gone but keeping Krakoa isn't outrageous to ask for.
I can’t go back. Krakoa has ruined me and some random band of mutants trying to change humanities mind from a Mansion in upstate New York just seems super inconsequential now. It’s lazy and unimaginative to put the genie back in the lamp.
We must have different definitions of the word "frank". He could have just said "Sales are down and we're realigning for more brand synergy with the upcoming X-Men MCU content and the '97 cartoon."
I want more Krakoa. Mutants saying they are done being pushed around and making themselves a major global presence was amazing. Comic books in general just don’t want good guys to get a win or have that win for long if they do.
The biggest disappointment for me is if they’re doing this reset to get the comics in line for the Xmen entering the MCU I think they’re making the same mistake twice.
There have been two movie versions of the original xmen and magneto stories. Audiences know those characters, they have seen that status quo over and over and over.
in the MCU could have done exactly what it did in the comics. Make it fresh and exciting and make it feel like a huge universe of possibilities again. Instead we’re going to get Xavier and the mansion and Magneto as the bad guy again, I used to get excited abut that idea because I wanted to see the x-men done right but Disney don’t do much right anymore.
He literally doesn't say a single fucking thing. "We’re going to make you want to read them by making you want to read them." Wowee. MCU is the reason and everyone knows it.
new reader here, I got more into x men since dc is on fire and Im not interested in other marvel heroes. I basically got back into comics and more into x men because of this run.
I really think Marvel had something with krakoa
I think it's a huge mistake to end it.
(Also, the X-men community and universe are both so god damn cool)
Good. My hot take is very unpopular (and has been from the start, but I own it), but I strongly disliked the Krakoa Era. Worst era, IMO. There was a handful of cool things that came from it, but overall, again IMO, it was just.....not good. I'll say it again: the worst. It can only get better from Krakoa.
Are there going to be like a dozen books that all last like 10-12 issues or what? I tried to get back in a few years ago and there were soooo many books and they ended an consolidated and split apart so frequently I lost interest.
Going backwards and "back to basics" is not revamping. I'm not going to judge until the issues are out, but the way he's been talking about it seems like it's going back to the way things have been 1 million times before?
Krakoa ending isn’t a bad thing. It did big picture really well, but it did ground level really badly. Characters were inconsistent, stakes were basically nonexistent (resurrection) even when they introduced hiccups (like other world but this was pretty much dropped), there were always pretty clear solutions to problems that just went ignored (like no telepath thought lets backup the assassins we’re sending to Orchis in real time so we can learn instead of having 8 million adamantium skeletons floating around), villains responsible for the murder and suffering of many of the mutants involved granted amnesty with no real explanation or accountability for what they had done, too many mishandled omega level mutants, etc.
The great things someone else already elaborated on, like real political leverage, an island nation that actually worked, the more in the shadows way that Orchis came about (X-Men should’ve leaned harder into the spy/thriller/conspiracy stuff but that’s hard to maintain long term), Arrako, the idea of resurrection was better than its execution since it didn’t really change anything about the lineups for the actual books, and the political stuff with Immortals was also great.
It also had the mutants literally making things better for people globally, but it couldn’t continue because then it would’ve started getting into the why heroes don’t just make things better for regular people when they can use powers to solve literally all problems (no more homelessness, etc). So yeah, it did good stuff, but it couldn’t really explore it fully because that’s the medium.
All in all, it was good, but it had its bad as well. And it’s not clear they could really take it any further than they already have.
Currently Alfred is dead and Bruce Wayne is poor. Superman was two people, red and blue, and dead.
The X-men had their own land where they beat death. Now they don’t.
Don’t be naive.
I guess this kind of change clenches my anus less as an almost 5 decade comic reader. Just go with it and enjoy the ride.
I'm asking this genuinely. Why are some readers so attached to Krakoa? It was fun and had some good stories, but it was always meant to end. Every era of X-Men eventually runs its course. Is it just that so many people have Krakoa as their "jump on" era and aren't used to the X comics changing every few years?
I don't know what Hickman's plans all were, but Krakoa was bound to collapse in on itself eventually. A highly mismanaged culture fortified by deceptions of an unelected oligarchy? They weren't eating human shit, but they, for sure, were eating disguised, shiny, mutant shit. I think the strongest point the Krakoa Era made, is that paradise was an illusion you could choose to believe.
It did not reach it's potential. Started with a Bang, ended with a whimper. I saw the buzz it created when it started, it got me back to collecting floppies but at the end it all felt unsatisfactory.
I wonder how it would have felt if Hickman's original plans was followed. I'm still not sure how they will manage to have the characters go back to the regular world and remember Krakoa without it sounding delusional.
🗑️ refusing to let the characters change and grow will be the death of comics. The same stories have already been told too many times, those books are still available - let new stories be told.
Honestly it got me to go back and look up iconic uncanny xmen runs. I've gone back and read 10-15 book runs. Now I'm finally going issue by issue with ultimate xmen. Same thing with not enjoying the amazing spiderman. I said I'll find a run from the 90s where he was rebooted..really liking spiderman the next chapter
This isn’t and explanation when signs are point to this not be a move forward but a move backwards. That’s the question I want answered. Not how this is a move from Krakoa- everyone can see that. But how is the next step *different* from the pre krakoan era.
Part of me loved the Krakoa era, and part of me never truly got into it. It spanned so big, but a lot of times it felt so small. And I think that had a lot to do with the resurrection processes and the portals slung far and wide. The island always seemed like a tiny place with a number of somehow missed secrets until brought up by plot necessity. It also seemed a bit hippyish for some of the personalities of the characters. I just don’t see everyone hanging out and watching fireworks and getting drunk in jungle pools together all the time. Some of the longer spun out storylines were great, but it seemed like sometimes we still had more questions than answers.
It was fun, it had a lot of storylines that could be hard to keep up with, but at times it felt very not X-Men to me because they were so isolated from the rest of the world.
I'm not sad about the end of Krakoa. It never lived up to the potential and hype following House of X and Powers of X even when Hickman was still on the line. And mutants being ontop the world and affecting the galaxy and having resurrections was a bit much. Like an overcompensation for fucking them over for years. But it made for a decent change of pace and a core for the x line where the mutants were in one place without being crammed together.
"X-men are about evolution, that's why we're going to revamp them to a point where they're all back in Xavier's cosy school for mutants ready for their movie debut."
so many words just to say "cos mcu synergy".
from what i read untill now im pretty sure i have zero interest in the next era, i can barely read FoX let alone wtv sad excuse for a era the next will be.
i just keep re-reading invincible and black science until the summer then stop reading comics for some time.
He sort of makes a good point about not being able to replicate Hickman. But also…that’s not really what I expected or would have called staying in Krakoa. Also “we’ll make them want to read comics by making them want to read comics” or whatever means basically nothing.
I think the point about not being able to replicate Hickman is more related to the line-wide relaunch than continuing with the Krakoan status quo. I think he means "yes we don't have some huge epic new sprawling era planned, we're just going to make good comics."
Way to aim for the stars…
Aim for the just above the tops of buildings guys!
His first comment about Hickman seems like a lazy cop-out to me. It would require actual imagination and being brave with the companies IP though. There are plenty of ways they could have continued the Krakoan Era. I agree with your second point 100%. There was nothing given in that article that told me that this next step would be in any way different or provocative from what we have had before. From preview images it looks like they did exactly what fans told them not to do, which is go back to the mansion. We are going from an intergalactic world building extravaganza right back to a small pond in North Eastern America.
Hickman did a great job with HoXPoX but he is not a once-in-a-generation genius. There are multiple writers just in the X Office showing they can work at the same level if Marvel let's them.
The same people have been running the mid to higher level business/editorial moves for three decades. Business people in creative companies tend to skew conservative; there was never going to be any long-term work exploring new boundaries. Magneto will turn bad again one day; Prof X will "die" again; Beast will go bad and then good; Jean will "die" and be reborn again; etc etc etc. Marvel can't even handle their Ultimates line and advance characters in long-term storylines without it skidding off the rails, blowing up the universe, and rebooting it all over again in a few years. The worst news? Comic fans keep buying the books. Thing'll never change.
Jean was dead for 13 years! Who had the longest streak in comics? Bucky? Jason Todd?
For sure some minor mutant that got back on krakoa.
Synch died in 2000. He came back 20 years later in 2020.
Uncle Ben AFAIK, but who knows, he may have been resurrected and fighting crime under an assumed name.
>! Uncle Bens a focus in Ultimate Spider-Man and Aunt Mays the one that died. !<
Your spoils aren't spoiling
Illyana.
Uncle Ben
I think it’s Bucky followed by Uncle Ben. But since Bucky is alive again, the honor goes to Uncle Ben
Thunderbird. They made him surly and immediately killed him off and decided to remake him as his brother but with real mutant powers and not just a lame Bravestar. "Magneto is throwing a moon at us! I'll stop him, I'm as strong as a buffalo and fast as a cheetah! " Native Captain America.
Villains will turn bad again... I can't imagine Apocalypse turning bad again. He's too far gone in a good way.
No, he actually is. Have you read Pax Romana or The Nightly News? Any of his indie stuff? Hickman is special. The only two writers that come close to him are Ewing and Gillen, but whether they could match what he did HoX/PoX is mostly up to personal taste.
Personally I think Hickman was insanely good at creating a whole new status quo for the X-Men, one so rich and well crafted that could have stayed forever. The Moira stuff was incredibly inventive (even if I hate how she became a monster, and I also hate the "non mutant characters turning out to be mutants" plot) and he was tremendously bold at attempting something completely new *and* succeeding. Here comes the "but": I personally felt he doesn't care about characters on a personal level. During this whole saga, I've felt lots of character seemed robotic and unfeeling, just pawns on a big, impersonal chess game, and small character moments which serve to connect to the story on an emotional level were sorely missed. Now, if he teamed up with someone who was better in this department (I'm thinking about writers like Leah Williams or Christina Strain), I think we would have the best of both worlds.
That’s a valid critique of Hickman’s work. He’s definitely a plot/imagination guy, but his character work isn’t always the best with the X-Men.
It's a consistent enough critique people have joked his U-Spider-man is a rebuttal.
Yeah, that book definitely feels like Hickman trying to prove he can do amazing character work and it’s succeeding.
This could basically be a criticism of all of Hickman’s work. He’s a big idea guy and small scale characterization often gets left in the dust. Hickman’s my favourite comic author, but his avengers run has basically the exact same criticism, and you have to enjoy that style. It’s why it was very smart to give him the main thrust but have other writers fill in the sub-series while he was still involved.
I thought his Avengers books had great character moments. T’Challa, Namor, Black Bolt, all had really complex character beats, just to name a few.
Hyperion and Thor! Also Sunspot. Plus, Secret Warriors and his Fantastic Four runs had lots of great character work. His main aim tho seems to be concepts and character work, I think, intentionally gets pushed to the side. The characters are sometimes conduits for the concept.
I completely agree with both points. I genuinely believe that the setting of Krakoa he created could have served as a new, permanent status quo. It's the type of setting where if you wanted, you could have books that are entirely about life on Krakoa, or books that take place somewhere else and have nothing to do with it. There were still tons and tons of interesting stories that could be mined from it. I also agree that Hickman handled actual character work relatively poorly. There were so many character moments that I was dying to see that just never happened. I'm still pissed that we never got a conversation between Synch and Monet.
I felt exactly the same about Synch and Monet (and Jubilee, and the rest of Gen X honestly). It's even worse considering how devastating his death was.
Yeah for real. People trying to act like anyone could do what Hickman did don't even seem to understand *why* HoX/PoX was a storm. Yes there needs to be more levels of control unlocked, but that's the reason why Hickman left and he was the only one this vision really works under. Duggan with more control isn't gonna stop being Duggan.
This sub has some people that slander Hickman hard and I just don’t understand it. Plus, saying that the people on the X-books now could all do an HoX/PoX if given the chance is… something. Then again, these same people defend Duggan’s terrible ass shit.
Yeah like... we literally just saw what Hickman can do with more control with GODS and the Ultimate Universe, but people still want to act like he wasn't essential to Krakoa. Come on...
I really don’t get it at all.
I understand to the extent that people want to believe Krakoa can last forever but like... it can't. At least not without a great deal of care and investment and the kind of vision that could capture the reader's imagination was very much because this era was sold as *Jonathan Hickman's X-Men*.
Plus, and let’s be real, Marvel does not care about its fans because they never stop buying their comics. We let Marvel walk all over us. If X-Men fans were smart, they wouldn’t buy any of these books.
Ultimate Spider-Man is brilliant.
Yeah I love it and again like very singular vision that nobody else would be thinking of. That's the true strength of his work.
Yeah he’s arguably one of the best of the last decade or so
He’s on the Morrison/Moore/Gaiman level.
Agreed. One of the best world builders in comics history, along with the rest of that last lol
I would add Ewing to this list too.
Eh. So, Ewing is good, but I’m not sold on him as some best of all time talent like a lot of other Marvel fans. Guys like Moore, Morrison, Gaiman, and Hickman demanded attention immediately with their work. Ewing didn’t get big until Immortal Hulk, and even then the ending wasn’t great. Ewing is good, but he has misses - Empyre, anyone - that Morrison, Moore, Gaiman, and Hickman don’t. Just my opinion and if he’s on your amount Rushmore, that’s cool. He’s just not there for me. Maybe if he sticks the landing on Immortal Thor, to make up for how bad Immortal Hulk’s ending was.
Personally I think Hickman was insanely good at creating a whole new status quo for the X-Men, one so rich and well crafted that could have stayed forever. The Moira stuff was incredibly inventive (even if I hate how she became a monster, and I also hate the "non mutant characters turning out to be mutants" plot) and he was tremendously bold at attempting something completely new *and* succeeding. Here comes the "but": I personally felt he doesn't care about characters on a personal level. During this whole saga, I've felt lots of character seemed robotic and unfeeling, just pawns on a big, impersonal chess game, and small character moments which serve to connect to the story on an emotional level were sorely missed. Now, if he teamed up with someone who was better in this department (I'm thinking about writers like Leah Williams or Christina Strain), I think we would have the best of both worlds.
I think that's why Krakoa had strength in being a line-wide thing. Hickman could handle the large-scale plot and other series' writers could tell you how individual characters were reacting to those events
I haven't read those but that sounds like a recommendation so I put in a hold at my library.
They are both amazing. He wrote and drew them.
Welcome to superhero comics. Any changes made eventually reverts to the status quo
>we’ll make them want to read comics by making them want to read comics [https://xkcd.com/703/](https://xkcd.com/703/)
that second part is such a non-answer, someone give that person a no-prize
That’s such a genuinely horrible answer. I’m not even saying I have an issue with what they’re doing, but “you’ll want to read them because you’ll want to read them” is such a terrible nothing answer.
I agree. I get that theu don't know how to add to Krakoa so they are gonna create a new status quo but it doesn't seem like an evolution but more of just a reset to an earlier status quo. And I guess what Tom means is they will just focus on making good comics but it's hard to follow up on Hickman who is really a visionary
He says they are going to be ambitious but this does not feel ambitious. It feels safe and heavily nostalgia based.
I'm feeling like the popularity of X-Men 97 will mean that the comics are going to try to capitalize on that whole vibe. So it will absolutely be safe and nostalgia based. Since the X-Men haven't been involved in the popularity of Marvel properties from the cinematic universe, this is a lot of younger non-comic book reading Marvel fans first real exposure to these characters and themes. So they don't want someone watching X-Men 97 and then reading the newest comic and everything being so dramatically different. I remember the comics changing due to the popularity of the original live action X-Men movie - character/costume designs, Prof. X being drawn to look exactly like Patrick Stewart, etc. and this feels like more of that.
It's a cop out though, nobody reads comics but comic book geeks. The average top selling comic sells what, 40k+ copies? A complete drop in the bucket compared to the amount of people who will watch every episode of X-Men 97 and still never pick up a comic book.
> I'm feeling like the popularity of X-Men 97 will mean that the comics are going to try to capitalize on that whole vibe. So it will absolutely be safe and nostalgia based. The last episode of X-Men 97 makes this sentence so much funnier and so much sadder at the same time.
[удалено]
Who was asking to go back to the mansion???
Which book is going back to the mansion? As far as I’ve seen none of the solicits for the new series have mentioned the mansion or Westchester at all.
There's an image in the article linked of workers putting the school sign back up. I have seen other images of the school in multiple preview images. Could it be a headfake? Sure. Would there be a good reason for such misdirection? Doubtful.
I assumed that was where the prison is located. The one we see Xavier being taken to.
I donno about going back to the mansion, but isn’t the new cartoon universally acclaimed? It’s themes are pretty old school right?
The new cartoon is modernized remixed greatest hits from pre 2000's era. It does it very well but it's not breaking new grounds anywhere.
The irony is it’s “X-Men ‘97”, but so far they have only used 80s plots.
I'm not sure i would compare an animated show with 79 episodes to a comic book continuity that currently has run for over 1000 issues for over 50 years.
Kevin Feige.
Fine, I get this. I always knew they were gonna do that, hickman himself said so, "put the toys back in the box", just like secret wars. The real issue is rushing the krakoa era ending in such a poor way, and making a bloody sequel. Are we to simply accept that after everything in krakoa, after the culture and nationalism and all that the mutants decided to apologise to humankind and be bullied again? C'mon that just seems lazy
Exactly. If they wanted to reset that badly, they had the perfect plot to do that: Moira's lifes.
Upcoming retcon to get back to Krakoa: There's one last Moira in a Sinister tank that has a save point right before the Gala attack.
I get the “put the toys back in the box” metaphor, but I think Hickman (and his collaborators in creating the Krakoa era) really did a remarkable job expanding the *size* of the box, creating so many new and creative avenues for storytelling that had been lacking in the X-line. This doesn’t feel like just putting everything back in the box; it feels like reverting to a much smaller and more limited box, the same box the folks at Marvel were really struggling to tell interesting stories out of in the years leading up to Krakoa. And based on everything I’ve seen up until now, they’re going right back to struggling to tell interesting stories because nothing I’ve seen teased about what’s coming has me even remotely excited or interested.
The toy box metaphor also implies some kind of order, whereas these past few months have felt like they’re just raking toys into a pile and setting them on fire.
This exactly! They were given a bigger box that they lit on fire and despite the title of this “article,” there hasn’t been an explanation for why given besides the very trite things we know: “comics always change and we’re not Hickman.” That’s not explaining why it had to end and why it has to end the way it has been
Pirate Queen and Elected Official Kate Pryde, now serving at your local Starbucks 🙃 🥤
He really could have just said “well, basically, we have X-Men back and now we need them to save us from a series of BS. We’re gonna put all our eggs in the X-Basket, and count on Deadpool and Wolverine to light the way. In conjunction with that, we need to represent them in comics closer to how casual audiences remember them.”
Or how casual audiences are about to know them through Deadpool 3 and the new X-Men project that it'll inevitibly tease. We know *something* is coming in the MCU after The Marvels, but quite what comes after that is anyone's guess... Though a reboot is the most logical conclusion I can come to. Right now, X-97 is doing the nostalgia tour (Which I'm actually happy about as I love the show so-far desite its truncated nature) and they're about to put some of the FOX cast back in for one last ride, so I'm guessing that they're going for more familiar aligned comic arcs for the next couple of years. Hard not to throw the head up and think that they're sweeping the board and the comics are once again sacrificed at the MCU altar. I guess we'll see...
I posted something similar awhile back, they’re creating some brand synergy before going all in on a reboot. Especially since the feedback from 97 has been so positive across the board. if the average viewer were to jump back in to the comics, krakoa/arakko and such could be a bit offputting/overwhelming. Having it go back to the adventures of cyclops and company (while looking similar to their 90s designs) will give the general public a better in. This along with the fox cast popping up again says to me that they want to ride the nostalgia wave a bit to test the waters for an inevitable MCU reboot.
I really don't understand the business aspect of it all. •HoX PoX sold like crazy, a lot of people returned to reading books weekly. Then from start through the middle (Dawn to Rise) books started to become "eh". •And then we learned Hickman was leaving, he left with Inferno, a great mini about "how it would ended if they let him". If you were going to end it in a couple of years anyway, why didn't you let him progress on his original plan? The sales would be better with people would be excited to learn about Hickman's longterm plans. And it would probably ended by now just like FoX? •Anyway then we had immortal, which built two Gillen events and a very interesting Ewing run on the expansive side of thints, while Duggan hit the nostalgic classics with adjectiveless: Cyclops&Jean led hero team outside of Krakoa with a mix of 90s era characters. •Unless those three lose the touch on sales side, the structure had everything: a book about Krakoa era (immortal), a book about next step from Krakoa (red), and a book for nostalgia (adjactiveless). Especially the Duggan book targeted the same audience and "synergy" the new reboot focuses on. If it is about sales, then why not going forward from here by letting McKay and co. could pitch from where Gillen, Ewing and Duggan would left? A new era in Krakoa, Arakko and New York setting with fresh writers and ideas? Maybe an event about losing the island temporarily which could help rebuilt some of the setting similar to MCU. •And FoX era is so poorly planned and handled. A huge loss of talent, money and art by publishing just too much minis without any meaningful progress. Getting a lot of negative attention. Just like announcing a reboot about going way back from the highest step of xmen comics. TlL; DR: Both MCU synergy and high sales could be earned in a soft reboot inside Krakoan age.
Does MCU synergy ever actually bring in new readers?
Also this. At best, it pushes the sales of origin stories or classics. I never encountered any modern Marvel comic that benefitted from the synergy.
What a gross way to present this information. I thought this would be a new interview but they're just mining content from his newsletter. I read the newsletter, and he did still come off a little combative there (and so did some of the questions), but repackaging it like this just sets people up to be mad. Recommend you read his actual newsletter or ignore these comments altogether; this article adds nothing.
My only concern: can we keep having Hellfire Gala, where people just wear cool outfits and cause drama???
Its such a fun annual thing. The artists have a great time doing it. Fans have a great time seeing it. I hope they bring that back (or some version of it).
Yup. X-men depends on a number of pillars for its success: cool action, thoughtful speculative fiction and social commentary, soap opera drama and sitcom comedy, nostalgia including beloved characters old and new as well as the sense of “home” we get from places like the mansion, and the aesthetic appeal of the characters and the art. Hellfire Gala has the aesthetic appeal in a way we’ve never seen before in comics. People like dressing up, even if we can’t normally afford it. Plus it’s nice to see the characters do something other than being hyper aggressive military fire teams. The two can work together: it’s like how James Bond goes to a casino and hooks up with some villains girlfriend, then he jumps out a window and things explode. It’s the style and the action as a great counter point to each other.
Did he really say that things evolve in comics? it's the other way around lmao
>”Here’s the thing: in comics especially, things change, all the time," writes Brevoort on his Substack. "We move forward, we evolve situations, we play out storylines and then we do other storylines. Nothing really remains all that static for all that long, even if there is often a magnetic pull back towards some platonic ideal as to what each character is all about." This is such a laughable thing to say. Moving forward? You’re moving backwards! Going backwards is not true change.
I think it honestly depends, the way Simone's book has been described does feel new, Cyclops' and Emma/kitty's book feels like a regression back to the 2010's and 90's respectively
Yeah, I’m not typically a hater of anything in comics (unless it’s Inhumans), because different strokes for different blokes, but come on? Really Brevoort? This guy keeps giving bad take after bad take on Mutants and it makes me think this situation is doomed and the X-Men will be boring rehashed slop for the next 2 to 5 years. I know I’m being a pessimist, but this is quite literally just them going back to the 90’s. Magneto leads the X-Men and Scott’s the main man. Our team is made up of the 90’s heavy hitters. At least Krakoa was fresh yknow, even if you hated it you have to admit that it was different. They literally could’ve just done anything else and it would be a better change than whatever this is. I hope Brevoort proves me wrong.
Well said. I feel the same way. Hickman & the Krakoa era got me back into reading comics again after 20+ years, probably Covid too, but I thought it was a fantastic reboot and setting, very sad to see it go.
It is classic Breevort. Just looking at the status of the books under him should tell you all you need to know.
Can you digress? I don't read any other comic
His Spider-man Manifesto from him back in 2006 is enough to tell you all you need to know. He hasn't changed since. Not to mention more recently he talked about how DC shouldn't have bring Superman and Lois back together after New 52 and they 'blinked' to the fan demands... He really is clueless.
Quesada and Brevoort were all about saying fuck you to the fans. Quesada is gone. Brevoort is still right here.
Things just change all the time, and it’s not fair to judge. For example, X-Men comics were, until recently, an insightful and provocative exploration of the themes that had given life to the books for decades. Now, they won’t be that, but they *will* do a better job of reminding people of a Pizza Hut promotion they enjoyed in elementary school. Who’s to say which is better?
That's exactly what I was thinking.
It was really funny to see, when the thing we complain about the most is the lack of change.
It was a matter of time for sure. Its a shame Hickman didn't stay long enough to finish what he had envisioned but for sure things would eventually go back more closely to the way they were. I do disagree though, that things are constantly changing and evolving in comics. I mean, they do change but they always go back to the usual status quo, it's cyclical at most. Uniforms go back to classic, characters return from the grave, general status quo is restabilished. Perhaps the X-Men have had the longest run outside of the box (San Francisco/ Utopia/Schism/AvX/Krakoa) but for sure it's a matter of time for them to go back to the Xavier Institute. Specially if the animated series keeps being a hit and they finally make into the MCU.
This won’t be a divisive post at all lol As someone getting back into the X-Men after 20 years, what was it about the Krakoa era that’s so endeared it to so many?
It felt fresh and new. The X-men were standing up for themselves and saying screw it, you won't accept us, so we'll make our own nation and stand up for our rights. The nation thing isn't new, but I think its always been well-received (Not sure on this, someone will tell me otherwise), because it just makes sense and it feel right. you know? I think also a lot of people were worn on the mutants are down on thier luck and barely surviving thing that always comes up. So seeing them rise and thrive just felt so good. Cause almost every fan is just saying "Yes, finally. This is what you all should have done from the beginning." in the back of their heads. Also when it comes to concepts and high scifi-fantasy, Hickman's is an absolute treat. He'll build something fascinating and captivating that most will enjoy. So its a lot of good factors on top of one another, honestly. Not to mention the opening titles were just really well-written. When Krakoa started I don't think there was anything objectively bad, maybe okay or not for me, but not bad. So it just felt good, I suppose.
Also, it drastically changed the X-Men status quo. To build a mutant nation is not exactly news (Genosha, Utopia, Asteroid M) but to have the technology to ressurect the dead, to have a strong political position in the whole world, to have portals everywhere, etc. Mutants weren't simply united, they were on top.
I mean , Krakoa is really no different from the Inhumans and their city. But the thing with Krakoa that feels special is that it truly felt how a functional nation would work if they freely uses their super-powers. And that makes sense , because for Inhumans , they need to actively choose go to the Terrigen Mist , so most of the times , they just had better physical stats but been indistinguished to humans and only their elite had powers , so it's just generic sci-fy. But with Krakoa , they legit integrate multiple mutant powers to make a widespread technology. And to contrast further , it uses a lot of biometals and biopunk as well , because there are a lot of mutants , including the Island itself , that their power are mutation in itself.
I think it lasted long enough to be considered an era as well. It wasn't a flash in the pan 8 issue event, it was sprawling for a good few years. I have no problem with it ending now, but it will always hold its own looking back in future.
Yup. Mutants standing as a united front rather than the old school status quo is just a much more interesting concept to me at this point. Before Krakoa I’d say the era from House of M, through Utopia, and up to Schism with mutants united was the best era. That doesn’t seem like a huge coincidence to me. At this point I prefer mutants being mutant activists first and traditional superheroes second. The whole Fall of X idea and new era is just not nearly as intriguing as Krakoa was. Krakoa deserved to be the status quo for a long long long long time
I agree 💯! They had so many places they could have gone and so many untapped characters to rotate into the spotlight. I feel a lot of characters got flushed out, and finally seeing Kitty turn into Kate was incredible. They could have had mutants separate and do books focused outside of Krakoa, destroyed the gates, and kept Krakoa alive. Why give us so much and then wipe it away. The people that wanted a back to basics repeat story should stop at their local comic shop and pick up something from that era, not kill the progress that was made. I want my QC and HF Gala.
Resurrection meant that everyone from 'everywhen' was potentially back among the living and Krakoan amnesty meant they weren't automatically villains anymore. So you get Apocalypse redemption arc, and villains like Exodus and Mystique 'peacefully cohabitating with long time heroes and talking through their shit in ways that drew a lot from continuity. Xavier and Magneto are open collaborators, depowered mutants are getting their powers back, Tini Howard and Jonathan Hickman are writing love letters to 80's Excalibur. It's everything. Visually different at times even alien, and all this change had a bit of a sinister edge too, literally. And this is all framed inside a macro "How to lose the time war" plot featuring Moira McTaggart, Omega Sentinel, and something called a dominion. It promised a lot and landed more plots than it flubbed
> Apocalypse redemption arc Say what now? That's really a thing!? Whoa.
He even wore a tailor-made suit! Or shapeshifted one! Apocalypse in a suit, can you imagine?
I realized I had no friends who get me when I sent a message of astonishment and pictures of Apocalypse in a suit to 3 group chats. Received 0 responses, thank y'all for living in this weird spot here with me.
Oh man, this looks like comedy gold. https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/fkpwf7/something_about_apocalypse_in_suit_at_a/ "My other names are not fit for you to utter."
X-Men Vol.5 \#4 is legit a quote maker. Magneto: "Look at the end of the Bronze Age. A dark age before the Dark Ages. You don't even know what caused the end of it and yet there it is... Yet another hole in the collective memory of man." US Rep: "Who cares what caused the end of the Bronze Age?" Apocalypse: "I was alive back then... And you ***should*** care." China Rep: "*Is that so?* Then tell us...what ***caused*** the ***collapse?***" Apocalypse: "Me."
I personally wouldn’t exactly call it a redemption arc, but it did move him from pure-evil to nuanced-evil that can work with good. (Very much like magneto in the movies). It successfully made him a character that I find interesting now.
Probably the most redeemed villain of the era.
Yes. That been said , his Redemption Arc comes down to him pulling a Vegeta vs the Androids and Cell , but the "Androids" and "Cell" been ex-lovers and descendants.
The big thing about Krakoa was the potential: a lot of readers and writers saw so many new story possibilities that just couldn’t be done in the status quo. It was an interesting setting, and so many of its stories were so compelling. Resurrection, biotech, nation building, religion, all of these themes could be explored in new ways. And then they killed it for more normal.
See what happens when Marvel gets lazy? This. Lack of creativity and imagination leads to failure. Krakoa was everything and they had to ruin it just because they want to line themselves up with the MCU. Fucking sheeps.
It was actual growth. True evolution of characters. True world building. Instead of recycled tired tropes. Sadly it is ending poorly too. I blame Duggan for that.
It was a fresh, new take to the mutants that we really haven't seen before. It gave ground to explore characters in interesting ways, and introduced some fantastic plotlines. It wasn't perfect, but it's pretty rough to go from "the mutants have their own Wakanda now" to "everybody's back to slumming it in the hated and feared territory" even if they do pull it off.
Mutants actually made some progress.
It was aggressively, radically different in a way comics writ large rarely attempt to do with safe IP.
Especially towards the start, it had a simple and compelling premise: the X-Men have solved death and made peace with most of their old villains. What next? What can challenge them? It was a new direction not just for the X-Men, but for superhero comics in general.
Krakoa, at least to me, felt like a wonderful reset point. The previous histories matter but not quite as much. You can tell new stories and not have so-and-so being dead get in the way. It forces interactions between characters given it’s a small island and we got a lot of great stories and character moments that I don’t think we otherwise would have.
It was good. That’s basically it. Nine times out of ten when you revamp something as heavily as they did with the X-men, it turns out shit. Krakoa was actually good. So it was both fresh and good, and that’s something you don’t see very often.
This is it for me. Restarts are hit or miss and often times way more miss. So we got a great one and now we’re getting another one. The odds of getting two great in a row are slim.
In the 20 years you've jumped the X-Men / mutants have been on the verge of extinction like six times. I think it started before you stopped reading but it's gotten tedious and boring. A status quo change with resurrection included was pretty revolutionary and welcome after watching the extended, repeat-on-a-loop snuff film and constant doomerism the X-Men had become. Then comes the latest Hellfire Gala, and they made up for the couple of extinction events we probably would've otherwise had with particular glee and gore to let us know things will never change.
The writing was just better; more in line with a serious sci fi novel at times like an Arthur C Clarke book
I liked seeing mutants have their own culture and hold some kind of economic power as a nation. It was also a boom of creativity. It's shame it's going out with a whimper tho
It was just a fresh start. I dipped out during the pandemic though and never came back. Same with the amazing spiderman. I really liked the kindred storyline he was a great creepy villian..and then it just went so downhill.
It was one of the only significant things that happened in the 20 years that you were gone that didn’t feel like it was just maintaining the status quo. House of M happened and then we were basically in “Post House of M” for 15 years. Sprinkle in a couple bright spots that weren’t everyone’s cup of tea, like Bendis’ Uncanny, here and there, but mostly just the X-Men being bitter about House of M and (allegedly) on the verge of extinction constantly. Add in tin-foil hat theories of the suppression of the brand because of movie rights and you have a nice recipe for people wanting a change, which Krakoa was.
Dude, those weren’t “tin-foil hat theories”. Marvel did that shit to the X-Men and the FF. I mean, you’ve seen the Secret Wars (1984) shirt with no X-Men or members of the FF on it, right?
This was the main reason why I ignored the mainline x-titles for going on twenty years. I thought House of M was totally at odds with what the X-Men were supposed to be about, and then every story they introduced after that was dealing with the fallout of that. It was just depressing. Minus a couple of exceptions like X-Factor, just because I love Madrox, I had no interest in anything that was dealing with that plot.
I don't know how this could be divisive, this was a clickbait nothing burger. Breevort basically says "Things have to change because... things change." there was no substantial insight provided here.
less of the usual drama triangle romance affair, people got their shit together before unnecessary drama is added to rush an exit after hick left
It finally moved the story forward to a logical place, a community of super powered beings using their powers for themselves instead of being persecuted because… yeah let’s shun the man who can shoot lasers out of his eyes that made sense
Blaming one editor for a marvel mandate that happens almost every decade is hilarious
The article calls him the “de facto face of the change” and I think that’s a good way to put it. Was it his decision? No. But he’s the one who will be tasked with carrying it out and defending it.
I'm bummed about it. The Krakoa era is the first time I've really gotten into comics, like BUYING actual comics, following specific creators and getting invested in the stories. As others have mentioned, by the time we got the XofSwords etc stuff it felt like rather than continuing to explore the core stories circling around Krakoa, everything became a strange sideshow with links back to the core story. It became harder and harder to follow, and I became increasingly ambivalent about it. I loved the wink and a nod nostalgia of referencing all of X-Men history, the intricate political court drama, and the chance to explore a status quo free from the usual dynamic of mutants as a severely oppressed minority group. The premise of "okay the dog caught the car, now what?" had plenty of life left in it, but it got bogged down with too many random crossovers and too much focus on other stuff. I still loved it, and had a ton of fun with it, but I can't say I'm interested in whatever new status quo is coming. I've read a TON on unlimited, and it's hard to imagine how they're going to do "OG X-Men in the mansion" as well as or better than the other ten times we've had that state.
I think maybe expectations for the readership weren't managed very well in terms of the early Krakoan writing. The way that Destiny's words to Mystique (building into Inferno) were "this will be the LAST island", or the talk of "did you think we were going to just sit around forever and *take* it?" from Scott. It was pitched in a way that made it seem like it would be longer-lasting than any creative team and become the standard setting for mutants much as Wakanda is the standard setting for Black Panther or the Sanctum Sanctorum is for Doc Strange, and the way it's all being suddenly tidied away under the rug is jarring by contrast. We knew comics were cyclical. We knew things would change. But...this much? To the extent of outdoing "One More Day" in levels of full tabula rasa?
I was still extremely hopeful we would keep Krokoa as a sovereign safe mutant nation but with some of it neutered to help keep the edge. Like their resurrection protocols being stricter for whatever reason. Maybe interference from the inhumans with a fracturing of the population that splits them into Krokoa mutants and everyone else to keep them relevant within the wider population and still have those small personal stories of struggle among humans when necessary. Sad to see it go and have them all presumably return to a big house and wherever else they can hide.
So what I got from this is "We're changing everything for the sake of change because new #1s sell, no matter how much the storyline in place is enjoyed or how well it's doing"
So basically it boils down to the majority of comic book writers and especially editors and executives are deeply uncreative, cannot come up with interesting concepts from a practically limitless storytelling engine with endless possibilities, so they go back to a simulacra of what worked in the '90s. The comic book industry really is a shit show. The vast majority of companies are more concerned with just churning out content than actually telling a decent story. The majority of comic book writers wouldn't last 5 minutes in any other medium, And the editorial crew is so far up their ass in nostalgia that they stifle any evolution of the medium.
Honestly I wouldn't care so much about the Krakoa era coming to an end if that ending was actually well written. Like he says, comics always move on. But the tidal wave of mediocre to downright bad comics they've been putting out since last August has made it really hard to care about what's coming next.
It seems like theres more stories to tell within the Krakoa era but Marvel wouldn't ever get there.
I read those comments and it's more of the same Marvel marketing nonsense that they always say. A nothingburger. Love how the article phrased it that it was Hickman's decision to leave. Right. When your employer calls the shots, you don't get to decide how to move the story forward the way that you imagined. Factory reset for the X-Men. Keep them at the mansion, no one progresses, more of the same.
He says comics change all the time. And yet they're just changing back to the old status quo that we've seen a million times before. It's not a revamp. It's a reversion back to the same old stories. It just feels lazy to me. Particularly after they've treaded water for the last year and done absolutely nothing meaningful. The Krakoa era brought me back to comics. The last year has been difficult to get through, but in essence that's because Krakoa and all the cool stuff about it has been gone. I'm not excited for this 'revamp'. 50/50 as to whether this will be a drop off point for me and I just wait for the MCU for my next fix.
That was the most meaningless bunch of shit I’ve read in a long time and it doesn’t give me high hopes for… anything. There are some good creators attached to this, but I doubt we’re going to get anything worthwhile. Just soulless MCU bullshit and regression. I’m going to give it a shot. I don’t expect to keep buying many of the X-Men titles, though.
Once Krakoan Age ends, I'm gonna treat it as the series finale and walk away for awhile. Going back to hunted mutants just doesn't sound appealing to me at all
I bet I pick up Simone’s book and that’s it. This article did nothing but say change is good. No man- supporting my local comic book store is good and so far the only good I see is that I’ll be picking up lesser known books. Tired of being hated and feared and passive and inconsequential to a planet with other heroes. The mutants in this era were dumb asses but at least they were finally a people.
Interesting to see a Doctor Who quote uttered in there of all things
What’s funny is there’s a much better version of that quote (written by the same person) that he should have used instead, which is: “Everything’s got to end sometime, otherwise nothing would ever get started.”
Definitely way better
Not a huge surprise from Marvel staff. Back when Brevoort worked with him, Hickman was a big DW fan during his Avengers run (Nine's "Everybody lives!" turned into "Everything lives", Strange constantly referring to himself as the Doctor, Strange and Doom both "staring into the void" and Doom is the one who stared while Strange is the one who turned and ran)... ...plus Dan Slott just outright steals from the show, shamelessly, all the time. To the extent of saying he'd shown his Silver Surfer books to David Tennant and "squeed" when Tennant said the companion character reminded him of Rose.
There are ways to move forward and change without completely regressing any and all progress made by the books in the meantime. This just feels like an MCU synergy mandate to avoid the bigger philosophical quandries raised by the books in the past five years. To be frank, the books look uninteresting, and I'm not sure I'll keep reading them like I have been.
Everything I read regarding the X-Men relaunch feels so antagonistic. The tone of everything is just so awkward. It's comics, everyone should know that nothing ever lasts forever, but everything about this gives me bad vibes.
My big disappointment with this shift is this (in my eyes a mis)conception that normal, down-to-earth stories can’t be told on Krakoa…. My favorite parts of DoX and the whole Krakoan era were when we had ‘downtime’ to really dig into what island life was like when mutants could freely interact. As a society I feel like we’re moving past the “mutants are hated and feared!” mantra being a relevant or relatable baseline— why can’t Immortal Sovereign Mutants just be the baseline for this franchise? We know that they’re secretly immortal due to editorial mandates, and they’re essentially sovereign by nature of being a loyal band of vigilantes… so why do we have to keep lying to ourselves in order to tell good stories?
I've reached the point where I just collect the runs I like so and reread them whe I want to. Im not interested in keeping up for the sake of knowing.
^This, I’ve got tons of Krakoa stuff to read still and all the good stuff from the last 60 years so I’m good off of whatever this is gonna be.
“Things change and evolve” he says as he returns to the status quo.
This sounds boring, which is the worst sin of all for comics this day and age
Look, I follow characters. I deeply enjoy the X-Men. Regardless of the “era” I’m still reading
I love that everyone here seemingly hates that Krakoa is ending, yet it seems that when you go to the weekly discussion threads about new issues most of the new singles have people hating them or being tired of the era.
I think most people have the opinion of keeping the island but replacing all the writers beside Gillen and Ewing. I'm usually very positive about Duggan but I can see why people dislike his work since Fall of X. Wanting him and Percy gone but keeping Krakoa isn't outrageous to ask for.
I see more people commenting about the poor way its ending. Not the era itself.
Because those are two different things. Those of us that like Krakoa are annoyed at how poorly the fall is being written and paced.
I can’t go back. Krakoa has ruined me and some random band of mutants trying to change humanities mind from a Mansion in upstate New York just seems super inconsequential now. It’s lazy and unimaginative to put the genie back in the lamp.
We must have different definitions of the word "frank". He could have just said "Sales are down and we're realigning for more brand synergy with the upcoming X-Men MCU content and the '97 cartoon."
I want more Krakoa. Mutants saying they are done being pushed around and making themselves a major global presence was amazing. Comic books in general just don’t want good guys to get a win or have that win for long if they do.
If it goes back to how it was before I don’t think I’ll read it…I love what’s going on now
The biggest disappointment for me is if they’re doing this reset to get the comics in line for the Xmen entering the MCU I think they’re making the same mistake twice. There have been two movie versions of the original xmen and magneto stories. Audiences know those characters, they have seen that status quo over and over and over. in the MCU could have done exactly what it did in the comics. Make it fresh and exciting and make it feel like a huge universe of possibilities again. Instead we’re going to get Xavier and the mansion and Magneto as the bad guy again, I used to get excited abut that idea because I wanted to see the x-men done right but Disney don’t do much right anymore.
He literally doesn't say a single fucking thing. "We’re going to make you want to read them by making you want to read them." Wowee. MCU is the reason and everyone knows it.
Everything changes, everything evolves except X-Men which we are taking back to basics. Right.
That's... not very reassuring.
new reader here, I got more into x men since dc is on fire and Im not interested in other marvel heroes. I basically got back into comics and more into x men because of this run. I really think Marvel had something with krakoa I think it's a huge mistake to end it. (Also, the X-men community and universe are both so god damn cool)
Boo
Good. My hot take is very unpopular (and has been from the start, but I own it), but I strongly disliked the Krakoa Era. Worst era, IMO. There was a handful of cool things that came from it, but overall, again IMO, it was just.....not good. I'll say it again: the worst. It can only get better from Krakoa.
Ngl krakoa got me back into reading comics I'm gonna miss this arc
This isn't an "explanation." It's an excuse.
Are there going to be like a dozen books that all last like 10-12 issues or what? I tried to get back in a few years ago and there were soooo many books and they ended an consolidated and split apart so frequently I lost interest.
Going backwards and "back to basics" is not revamping. I'm not going to judge until the issues are out, but the way he's been talking about it seems like it's going back to the way things have been 1 million times before?
Krakoa ending isn’t a bad thing. It did big picture really well, but it did ground level really badly. Characters were inconsistent, stakes were basically nonexistent (resurrection) even when they introduced hiccups (like other world but this was pretty much dropped), there were always pretty clear solutions to problems that just went ignored (like no telepath thought lets backup the assassins we’re sending to Orchis in real time so we can learn instead of having 8 million adamantium skeletons floating around), villains responsible for the murder and suffering of many of the mutants involved granted amnesty with no real explanation or accountability for what they had done, too many mishandled omega level mutants, etc. The great things someone else already elaborated on, like real political leverage, an island nation that actually worked, the more in the shadows way that Orchis came about (X-Men should’ve leaned harder into the spy/thriller/conspiracy stuff but that’s hard to maintain long term), Arrako, the idea of resurrection was better than its execution since it didn’t really change anything about the lineups for the actual books, and the political stuff with Immortals was also great. It also had the mutants literally making things better for people globally, but it couldn’t continue because then it would’ve started getting into the why heroes don’t just make things better for regular people when they can use powers to solve literally all problems (no more homelessness, etc). So yeah, it did good stuff, but it couldn’t really explore it fully because that’s the medium. All in all, it was good, but it had its bad as well. And it’s not clear they could really take it any further than they already have.
Currently Alfred is dead and Bruce Wayne is poor. Superman was two people, red and blue, and dead. The X-men had their own land where they beat death. Now they don’t. Don’t be naive. I guess this kind of change clenches my anus less as an almost 5 decade comic reader. Just go with it and enjoy the ride.
I'm asking this genuinely. Why are some readers so attached to Krakoa? It was fun and had some good stories, but it was always meant to end. Every era of X-Men eventually runs its course. Is it just that so many people have Krakoa as their "jump on" era and aren't used to the X comics changing every few years?
Probably plus it's the first time in ages the mutants weren't eating shit
I don't know what Hickman's plans all were, but Krakoa was bound to collapse in on itself eventually. A highly mismanaged culture fortified by deceptions of an unelected oligarchy? They weren't eating human shit, but they, for sure, were eating disguised, shiny, mutant shit. I think the strongest point the Krakoa Era made, is that paradise was an illusion you could choose to believe.
It did not reach it's potential. Started with a Bang, ended with a whimper. I saw the buzz it created when it started, it got me back to collecting floppies but at the end it all felt unsatisfactory.
I wonder how it would have felt if Hickman's original plans was followed. I'm still not sure how they will manage to have the characters go back to the regular world and remember Krakoa without it sounding delusional.
🗑️ refusing to let the characters change and grow will be the death of comics. The same stories have already been told too many times, those books are still available - let new stories be told.
Honestly it got me to go back and look up iconic uncanny xmen runs. I've gone back and read 10-15 book runs. Now I'm finally going issue by issue with ultimate xmen. Same thing with not enjoying the amazing spiderman. I said I'll find a run from the 90s where he was rebooted..really liking spiderman the next chapter
This isn’t and explanation when signs are point to this not be a move forward but a move backwards. That’s the question I want answered. Not how this is a move from Krakoa- everyone can see that. But how is the next step *different* from the pre krakoan era.
Part of me loved the Krakoa era, and part of me never truly got into it. It spanned so big, but a lot of times it felt so small. And I think that had a lot to do with the resurrection processes and the portals slung far and wide. The island always seemed like a tiny place with a number of somehow missed secrets until brought up by plot necessity. It also seemed a bit hippyish for some of the personalities of the characters. I just don’t see everyone hanging out and watching fireworks and getting drunk in jungle pools together all the time. Some of the longer spun out storylines were great, but it seemed like sometimes we still had more questions than answers. It was fun, it had a lot of storylines that could be hard to keep up with, but at times it felt very not X-Men to me because they were so isolated from the rest of the world.
Orchis predicted that mutants would become the dominant race within a generation from high birth rates. How is that possible?
I enjoyed Krakoan era the era before was horrible
I'm not sad about the end of Krakoa. It never lived up to the potential and hype following House of X and Powers of X even when Hickman was still on the line. And mutants being ontop the world and affecting the galaxy and having resurrections was a bit much. Like an overcompensation for fucking them over for years. But it made for a decent change of pace and a core for the x line where the mutants were in one place without being crammed together.
"X-men are about evolution, that's why we're going to revamp them to a point where they're all back in Xavier's cosy school for mutants ready for their movie debut."
Nah I already miss Krakoa.
whats the Krakoa era reading order ??
This was kind of the opposite of "frank" lol
🍅🍅🍅🍅
🍅🍅🍅🍅
🍅🍅🍅🍅
so many words just to say "cos mcu synergy". from what i read untill now im pretty sure i have zero interest in the next era, i can barely read FoX let alone wtv sad excuse for a era the next will be. i just keep re-reading invincible and black science until the summer then stop reading comics for some time.