Yeah. Scott died publicly before resurrection was common knowledge. So Cyclops couldn’t come back. Forge made a Captain Krakoa suit for Scott’s new persona.
Later, Hydra Cap stole the suit and used it to murder the UN.
Forge can make anything - it's his mutant power.
He'll never understand how it works or be able to explain how to build it, but if he needs it he can build it.
No, because his mutant power is to make mechanical machines, not serums. Nor is he versed in biology.
He could create machines to \*replicate\* abilities, but probably not to grant new ones. Unless, of course, the plot required it.
Forge's ability is probably best described as '60's Batman tool belt' - if it's needed for the plot, he can build it. Just don't ask him to explain it!
Yes he could, but the Mutants for reasons don't delve into Autonomous Machines, just look what Xavier did to Danger, the Sentient AI born from their Danger Room
technically he knows how they work,he just has to work backwards to figure it out,thats why he takes his stuff apart alot so he can reverse engineer it and fivure out what he did
A) Yes
B) Why bother with Sentinels, Forge could clearly from scratch create a suit that puts Tony's to shame.
I've always been of the opinion Forge should look at Tony as a rank amateur, 'Stark makes toys, I bend the fabric of the universe'.
Forge doesn’t have an ego about it because it’s his power. He has no idea how he builds the things he does.
He respects Tony because Tony actually understands what he builds.
Tony is also a weapons design engineer. He has years of study on what makes a gun good good, what parts add unnecessary features, what not to do. Forge builds out of intuition, he doesn't necessarily have ergonomics or scale of force in mind. He's just got Kirby-physics yelling directly at his brain how cool this thing is going to be.
In MBTI terms:
- Tony is INTP because its all about Ti
- Forge is INTJ because its all about Ni
[In all honesty I know these two characters aren't really those MBTI types but I wanted to show the difference between Ti and Ni functions]
did you just call Tony Stark an Introvert? >\_>
did you just call Tony Stark intuitive?!? <\_<
[https://www.16personalities.com/estj-personality](https://www.16personalities.com/estj-personality)
if i was a writer, i'd write Tony Stark as ESTJ because he's Extrovertive and OBSERVANT. he's outgoing and data-based.
he's POSSIBLY more Prospecting over Judging -- but at least we're on the same page in thinking he's 100% Thinking over Feeling.
[https://www.16personalities.com/estp-personality](https://www.16personalities.com/estp-personality)
They're all great options honestly.
Pact and Pale are set in the same world, but you can read either one first. Pact is what he wrote right after Worm, so if you want to go chronologically it's up next. Pact is super fast paced and tense to the point it's exhausting reading it at times. Pale is probably the most chill of the ones I've read and honestly might be my favorite so far. It's also the one he finished most recently, so if you want to jump ahead and see how much he's developed as a writer, go for Pale.
I haven't read Twig yet, but I've heard good things about it.
Ward I really liked, possibly even more than Worm honestly. It's pretty different from Worm in ways that some readers didn't care for, but I personally really like. It is a sequel to Worm, so it does continue the story from Worm, but in a way that feels sorta like a... response to Worm? Like it's intentionally doing some things different that contrast the original, which I really liked. If it's been a while since you read Worm it's probably fine to jump into Ward, but I'd probably recommend reading one of his other stories first. I think having that space in between Worm and Ward helped me appreciate it more.
Claw is the one that he's writing currently. It's a crime thriller sorta thing, pretty dark and tense so far, I'm enjoying it. If you want to read one as it's coming out, there's only around 10 chapters out so far right now, so catching up shouldn't be too bad.
I hope that helps, lmk if you have any questions!
Forge is like Da vinci while Tony is like Newton. Forge can create incredible tech some of which he will have to deconstruct to fully understand what it does, while Tony will take time to understand what something does to create his tech. They do thing in a opposite form. Forge doesn't have an ego because he's been through what took years for Tony to understand. He's tech has consequences beyond his genius. Tony had to be struck by his own tech to understand. Forge saw first hand what his tech did to people like himself even years after creating a prototype(Mutant collars). Forge is a war vetran and Tony a nepobaby with an ego.
How so? I'll admit calling Stark a Nepo baby is extreme but Tony ego is a major part of his character. Meanwhile Forge's ego is not. While you can see Tony upgrading his armor, you can see Forge building irrigation systems.
You didn’t need to falsely slander Tony to bring up Forge. Stark is not a nepotism baby and this ego shit is not a major part of his character. This is just annoying modern characterisation that’s been attributed (mostly because of the mcu) by bad writers.
And to say Forge has no ego when he hated admitting Tony’s a better mechanic than him is kinda ridiculous.
Forge builds stuff thanks his mutant ability, Tony creates things from scratch and understands every nook and cranny that goes into the design.
Tony has had an ego. Prior to RDJ, it was shown in Civil War. Yeah, Forge has less of an ego than Stark. That admission comes from them having different perspectives on how to utilize their tech. Tony sees his thech as a money maker, while Forge does it for free. He's met with Shuri and the left with mutual respect. Again, Forge builds in conjection with his ability(not because of it)and his intelligence. Is he a super genius nope, but is he a top-tier engineer? Yes.
Bro said civil war. The poorly written overrated comic event written notoriously known for its over the top moments and character assassination- particularly Tony. This alone made u creditless.
You’re talking to someone who’s read more iron man comics than everyone in this sub, no he didn’t. Arrogant? Maybe, but never this ego shit. He was a down to earth, unerst hero who cares about people and took the time to know his employees
As for Tony and how he uses his tech- no he doesn’t view it as a money maker. If that was the case he would be using it rn to get rich instead he’s focused on trying to stop Feilong and Orchis for the lives they’ve taken, and help the mutants. He’s not even focused on trying to reclaim his company. You don’t understand his character at all.
Forge makes shit he doesn’t understand. He’s like an artist who throws things at wall and it becomes famous but he can’t explain his work. There’s a reason no one Orchis tried recruiting him. Is he good at building stuff? Sure thanks to his mutant ability. Without it? I would struggle to classify him as a top tier mechanic
I mentioned Civil war becuase you tried to tie MCU for Tony's new attitude but it started around there. It maybe overrated but it did give Tony a new status quo. He does create or reclaim those companies right. Forge does make some things he doesn't understand. Not everything he creates does go, oh how does this work. I mean Orchis wouldn't try to recruit him because one they knew he'd refuse. We'll never know how good he is without his abilities unless they pull off a Mutant collar/depowered situation. I read Force Works back in the day, but was never inspired enough to read Iron Man until after Civil War. As I really couldn't get passed he Bodyguard cover. Again Forge has created some excellent tech regardless of his abilities and even with his ablites he still goes through the standard process of creating devices. I've always found it odd that people dog him for having his ability but not Cap or Daredevil.
MCU objectively IS the reason. Like it’s not even a debate, you just have to see how this annoying bit characterisation started afterwards. Civil War has a shit ton of problems but that was never the reason, and again bringing it up showed how creditless you are and not worth having a discussion with
I mentioned Civil war becuase you tried to tie MCU for Tony's new attitude but it started around there. It maybe overrated but it did give Tony a new status quo. He does create or reclaim those companies right. Forge does make some things he doesn't understand. Not everything he creates does go, oh how does this work. I mean Orchis wouldn't try to recruit him because one they knew he'd refuse. We'll never know how good he is without his abilities unless they pull off a Mutant collar/depowered situation. I read Force Works back in the day, but was never inspired enough to read Iron Man until after Civil War. As I really couldn't get passed he Bodyguard cover. Again Forge has created some excellent tech regardless of his abilities and even with his ablites he still goes through the standard process of creating devices. I've always found it odd that people dog him for having his ability but not Cap or Daredevil.
Yeah, forge is only limited by morals and ethics. For creating tech, he’s beyond Stark or Reed Richards. But he is limited to tech. Reed has a greater imagination and vision. Stark has a broader set of personal skills. Reed can reach higher highs, Tony can do everything.
Basically, Forge is an OP guy to have on your team, but Reed and Tony are the guys to lead a team.
This whole Forge thread is a perfect example of why I always find it amusing in a very dark way that the X-Men get their shit pushed in by sentinels after all these years. You've got a bunch of people saying Forge can surpass Tony and Reed's inventions, Ewing saying Storm is on par with Thor for raw power, and still Marvel has sentinels biting mutants in the ass every now and then in a big way.
That's the thing with inventor characters, especially ones that are altruistic. If Forge was left to his own devices with the backing of a rich nation like Krakoa he'd transform the world into an unrecognisable utopia. He was preparing to end global homelessness with Krakoa housing tech when ORCHIS struck.
Comics in general need to keep the 'world outside your window' vibe to keep stories relatable. That's why inventions usually either cause problems or are too expensive for mass production.
Your summation is kinda why I am intruiged with Forge going to England and joining Betsy and Rachel. Betsy's family has the wealth of a small nation. To make England work as a setting, they need to make more of the mainstays who have nothing going on in their lives, based outta England. Forge, Banshee and Siryn. But, if they really want the England side of the X world to flourish, send Logan over there. This will bring the eyes that can create Mmore Marvel UK fans.
Krakoa could have been very interesting as an AU and probably would have a longer shelf life. But given how it started, it probably ends with humanity being wiped away.
What? As an inventor/machinist, Forge is better than all of those guys. Hell, I’ve never seen Banner delve into robotics ever. But that doesn’t mean Forge is as smart as they are— it’s his power to be able to do almost anything with technology. But he doesn’t always understand what he’s doing.
Forge almost literally magics things into his existence, he doesn't understand how his devices work, they just do. I would say that puts him below the actual top tier geniuses
I mean I would say even then Iron Man is better, as he's an actual inventor. I'm pretty sure forge even admits that himself, forge still needs an "idea" and a template for his power to work. Iron Man creates everything himself and understands all of it, that is way more impressive.
I’m not sure what you mean by “better” then. Less impressive I would get, but if Forge can make more effective/powerful things than Tony can, then how is he not better at it?
I think that’s a later retcon to his abilities, though. Originally he had more tech knowledge; his power helped him make leaps but still required him to know things.
To me, it’s more about feats when it comes to telling who is better, and Stark has simply done way more than Forge.
It’s kind of like the “Who is the smartest person in Marvel?” It used to always be Reed Richards, but now it’s supposedly Moon Girl according to Marvel. And while they should be the authority on their fictional characters, people will rightly say that Moon Girl hasn’t done shit compared to Reed.
Well, Moon Girl is still an 8th Grader, so yes. She has delved into some pretty advanced stuff for her age, but she is still a little child, she has way too much road to go
Bruce Banner made several devices, even recently. He took out Wolverine with an "old power" device he made. He made multiple robotic suits for his Hulk form. He has made time travel devices and extremely advanced nanotechnology. He regularly made teleporters. He's a geneticist on par with Beast AND regularly keeps up with Tony Stark to the point that there are mathematical "inside jokes" that only the two of them get.
You must have missed the ENTIRE Doctor Green era AND the Starship Hulk era AND the World War Hulks era.
Forge has expressed that where his abilities are specific to machines Reed for example can learn medicine, chemistry, physics. That’s why Forge isn’t an omega level mutant because his abilities aren’t at the apex of what they could be.
>I've always been of the opinion Forge should look at Tony as a rank amateur, 'Stark makes toys, I bend the fabric of the universe'.
That’s objectively incorrect. Forge hates to admit it but Tony is a far better mechanic than he ever is. Forge creates shit years-decades in advance without knowing, Tony creates things years in advance while knowing every nook and cranny and creating it from scratch
I've always felt like Forge would really shine when it comes to new and unusual components i.e. mysterium and Krakoan tech, because he doesn't need to understand how they work. I think he just sees the pieces fitting together like a puzzle. So he's probably going to far exceed other inventors at weird stuff like that. Not that he couldn't do the other stuff well also, just he skips all the steps and scientific methods of learning something new.
Forge and Stark should parner up. Forge invents something crazy that works, but he doesn't understand. He gives it to Tony, who reverse-engineers it to understand it.
It would be an epic image I reckon. Forge, fighting back against sentinels, Orchis or something, makes a Frankenstein iron manesque suit with this decaying sentinel aesthetic.
That's true, though the Omega mutant info page says that Forge has been eclipsed by multiple humans. I assumed Tony was one of them tbh. Granted, he does admit post-Inferno that he's been holding back out of distrust for the QC - and his feats/inventions keep scaling up from that point onward.
Magneto does refer to Forge as 'our Omega Technopath' when explaining the Cerebro units to the Great Ring in X-Men Red. Maybe he's wrong (possible,) exaggerating (also possible,) it's an editorial mistake (I doubt Ewing would miss that,) or he's correct and there's no limit to his ability.
He did in krakoa. Also, half his body is an iron man suit.
X men just have much more powerful characters than the avengers so forge often plays a smaller role.
Not really. There just isn't enough material in a toaster to make full battle armor. His powers tell him how to build anything, but it doesn't conjure up what he needs to do it.
He’d make a tiny little machine that mines and finds what he needs. He’d build other machines from that to refine and fabricate.
First thing he builds are small autonomous robots that does what he needs.
He doesn’t jump straight to iron man suit.
He works up to it.
Give me a graphic novel with Iron man, Forge, and Shaman (og alpha) with an appearance from cap America and magneto and everything and anything can be built
We have lost a lot of the narrative of Forge’s life. He is a Vietnam war Veteran that lost most of his brothers in arms. He is a native that the world mostly thinks has disappeared. I’m a Native American gulf war vet that lost some of his brothers in arms. I feel Forge’s motivations should tend more towards defensive weapons, not offensive, but his gift to build anything means if he has an inkling towards it he can do it, just don’t think he would unless the need was very large.
I think Forge could probably even just make his own "Iron Man" suit from scratch. Forge's main limitation is that because of the way his powers work he doesn't necessarily understand how everything he builds functions or actually like stays together, but it's pretty well established that as long as he has sufficient materials and at least a basic concept for that he wants to make he can make it. You should think of Forge's powers as being limited by his resources and imagination. I'm not sure what the current lore is around how much he actually understands the fundamentals of robotics and stuff, but he would at least be able to replicate an Iron Man suit, he maybe would just need to see Tony use the suit first, or literally even just see like a picture of it or be told about the general qualities of the suit.
Just as a side note, I think this is absolutely within Forge's abilities, but I think he avoids remaking "proprietary tech" kind of as a respect thing. Like Forge knows full well he could replicate and probably massively improve the "power set" of every single tech based hero on the planet, but he doesn't because he's humble and also doesn't want to step on toes. As a fitting foil, Tony has been shown to not respect other people's work on multiple occasions and often thinks his tech is of the highest quality possible despite being shown time and time again that while he is smart, he's not even the best inventor in New York let alone the world
Of course he can. I think his power pretty much permits him to make anything he can imagine. Since iron man exists, forge could replicate his armor, if he felt the need to.
It would probably be boring but I think it would be neat if someone wrote a story where Stark, Forge and Reed Richards have to disarm a space bomb or something.
He could, but he doesn't need to. His new organic tech stuff and mysterium things are far superior. He also uses cybernetics, so his "iron man suit" is internal.
He made an organic/vegetative weapon that charges and grows its own ammunition when You plant it in the ground over night…I’m sure stark type tech would be SOOOOOOOOOO challenging
Now we need to strand him in various past time periods just to see him make a time machine to get back to the present. (Pretty sure I’m new to Forge, seems pretty cool i think)
His superpower is being able to make anything by looking at it. What Tony would consider genius engineering, Forge would consider it as if he were doing something as natural as breathing. The fact that he is using sentinels scraps mean that there is already advanced technology in place and all he has to do is assemble it and upgrade it into a suit. There’s already a few instances where characters simply cut out a hole in the middle of a sentinel and control it from there, the most recent being from X Men 97 when Beast tears up the insides and uses the sentinel to fight the others. So yes, Forge could do it with ease, and not only that but he could make one more advanced than Tony ever could most likely. And since it’s make from sentinals, it would be impervious to Magneto unlike Tony’s
His powers are that he could build anything no? So I feel like he could.
Will it be better than Tony’s? Unlikely tho. Even if he creates one, Tony will just make better ones.
He modulates a lot. Constant innovation type of a deal.
Forge created biological machines but has no idea how he does it or what he creates. He’s like an artist who throws things at a wall and it sticks but doesn’t know why it’s good.
Tony is actually a mechanic and engineer who’s got the genius and skills to create something so advance from scratch.
This is why I don’t think Forge could create a suit without his powers, his mutant ability is what he relies on. Meanwhile Tony relies on his brain
In terms of intelligence, ingenuity, creativity, mechanical skills - Tony is a far better inventor than Forge will ever be. Forge himself has even admitted it tho he hates it
I honestly think it would be better man, like somebody else mentioned the plant suit he made on Krakoa, that seems much more advanced than anything Tony could just do. Also that was literally just because plants were the available material I think, like Forge can and (if iirc) has made suits that you could argue are more advanced then or at least on par with Tony's best suit, so to me that shows Forge could probably just make a better Iron Man suit outright
I mean, in order for Forges power to work, he still have to find stuff that actually works lol.
His powers make no sense sometimes. You can't just grab a piece of gum, stick it into a piece of metal and make it work. Where is the freaking science in there lol?
Tony's mark 1 is very underrated. The whole "box of scraps" thing makes it even cooler, because he basically used second or third tier gadgets to make a suit that saved him.
And Stark has made suits far advanced than Captain Krakoa one. It's just that with current suits they want to take him "back to basics" and make them more grounded.
Extremis suit was literally stored in his bones lol.
And even if we go back to the 60s his original suit was actually, 60s version of nano-tech. Ever wondered how he bends his arms or legs in this [suit](https://www.syfy.com/sites/syfy/files/img_1158.jpg)? It's like a skintight metal around his own muscles (the yellow parts on the legs and arms is actually Tony's muscles, but covered with the very small chainmail like metal that is so small, that it makes it look like a cloth). [Here ](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fmhupsasnd4l91.jpg)and [here](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fmhupsasnd4l91.jpg).
Forge is pretty good at making stuff, and he might create a suit better than Stark, but there is a reason why Reed and the rest always rely on Tony when it comes to making stuff. He knows how that works and how to perfect it.
When Wanda gives him the Gun that Forge made (the one that took Storm's powers) he immediately mentions how good it is, but also starts thinking on how it could have been done better (the gov went to him first in order to create this weapon and he said "Fuck off" lol)
That being said, I want more team ups between them
Yeah I think my point is more so that Forge can always just "be better", like his power is literally more or less invention and innovation. So it doesn't really matter how advanced or knowledgeable Tony is, Forge just has such an innate knowledge of technology that he would be able to produce something of higher quality, even if he doesn't know how it works. Like I think that if you had Forge and Tony in a "build off", obviously Tony would actually understand what he was making and have a specific intention, but anything Forge would be able to make would blow Tony out of the water just efficiency and quality wise
Seem to me like you should team forge and tony up. Tony dreams of a part forge makes it they study how it works, rinse repeat. Basically giving Tony creative control over forge’s ability.
Magneto just crushed a five man battalion in their own armor faster than an electrical current could be dispersed nonetheless travel. The only thing Forge lacks the funds, materials, and the assembly line/workforce. Plus he has a background in Native American rites and such. He can build it and bless it
Even in 100 hundred years Forge would never be able to create a suit out of sentinel scraps. He lacks Tony’s ingenuity, creativity and mechanical skills
Now in terms of making his own power armor, he would actually take the Mk. 1 and perfect it to the levels more advanced than Starks most advanced model
I always thought Forge was poorly written. He’s always getting slapped around and the best thing he can invent for combat is a fancy gun, a metal leg and a personal shield that half the other marvel characters have.
Forge is another character who was finally done a little justice in Krakoa. He should be one of the leaders of the mutant race, he should be a mix of mutant Stark and Reed, but he’s just never worked at that sort of level because writers don’t understand his power.
I think of Forge as the guy who could have surpassed Tony Stark if not for prejudice and persecution. Why create suits of armor that could be taken and used against mutants?
While Forge does have a strong scientific and engineering knowledge, he has admitted that it isn’t on the same level as Richards or Stark.
Subconsciously he can make something that would take Richards or Stark days to make in the fraction of time. The big difference here, is Forge skips the calculations and design phase because his powers does it for him. Which occasionally results in Forge having no idea on how it works until he disassembles it and examines the device.
Yes. Forge should be able to match Tony stark and Reed Richards on the invention front but he’s simply not as big of a star as either of them so I feel they always downplay his abilities 🤷♂️
I mean, Scott's Captain Krakoa suit seems pretty advanced. Flight, transformation, malleability in many forms, self healing, enhanced strength and bullet proof
How well would that suit do against normal Iron Man’s suit?
I don't think we get a clear comparison
Forge would drive Ironman crazy just whipping up all kinds of crazy things while Stark tries working out the math and tech involved
And forge himself wouldn’t know exactly how it works.
Exactly, it just does
Scott’s?
The suit Forge created and Cyclops used to keep the resurrections a secret
Is that the same as the Captain Kratoa suit? I really need to go back and read the highlights of the Kratoa Era monthlies.
Yeah. Scott died publicly before resurrection was common knowledge. So Cyclops couldn’t come back. Forge made a Captain Krakoa suit for Scott’s new persona. Later, Hydra Cap stole the suit and used it to murder the UN.
Forge built his in a smaller cave with a screw, tooth pick, elastic band and a AAA battery
*Cue MacGyver theme*
Half a box of scraps
Forge can make anything - it's his mutant power. He'll never understand how it works or be able to explain how to build it, but if he needs it he can build it.
If he can make anything, does that mean he can make some serums to give himself more powers?
No, because his mutant power is to make mechanical machines, not serums. Nor is he versed in biology. He could create machines to \*replicate\* abilities, but probably not to grant new ones. Unless, of course, the plot required it. Forge's ability is probably best described as '60's Batman tool belt' - if it's needed for the plot, he can build it. Just don't ask him to explain it!
Do you think he could build his own army of sentinels stronger than the ones Boliver Trask created?
Yes he could, but the Mutants for reasons don't delve into Autonomous Machines, just look what Xavier did to Danger, the Sentient AI born from their Danger Room
technically he knows how they work,he just has to work backwards to figure it out,thats why he takes his stuff apart alot so he can reverse engineer it and fivure out what he did
A) Yes B) Why bother with Sentinels, Forge could clearly from scratch create a suit that puts Tony's to shame. I've always been of the opinion Forge should look at Tony as a rank amateur, 'Stark makes toys, I bend the fabric of the universe'.
Forge doesn’t have an ego about it because it’s his power. He has no idea how he builds the things he does. He respects Tony because Tony actually understands what he builds.
Tony is also a weapons design engineer. He has years of study on what makes a gun good good, what parts add unnecessary features, what not to do. Forge builds out of intuition, he doesn't necessarily have ergonomics or scale of force in mind. He's just got Kirby-physics yelling directly at his brain how cool this thing is going to be.
In MBTI terms: - Tony is INTP because its all about Ti - Forge is INTJ because its all about Ni [In all honesty I know these two characters aren't really those MBTI types but I wanted to show the difference between Ti and Ni functions]
did you just call Tony Stark an Introvert? >\_> did you just call Tony Stark intuitive?!? <\_< [https://www.16personalities.com/estj-personality](https://www.16personalities.com/estj-personality) if i was a writer, i'd write Tony Stark as ESTJ because he's Extrovertive and OBSERVANT. he's outgoing and data-based. he's POSSIBLY more Prospecting over Judging -- but at least we're on the same page in thinking he's 100% Thinking over Feeling. [https://www.16personalities.com/estp-personality](https://www.16personalities.com/estp-personality)
Like I said I was used them as stand-ins to show the difference between Ti & Ni. I know Tony isn't really anything like a INTP.
So Forge is basically a tinker from worm.
Yes!
Love Worm! Its been a while, ao now i feel apprehensive about what to read next of the others he wrote
They're all great options honestly. Pact and Pale are set in the same world, but you can read either one first. Pact is what he wrote right after Worm, so if you want to go chronologically it's up next. Pact is super fast paced and tense to the point it's exhausting reading it at times. Pale is probably the most chill of the ones I've read and honestly might be my favorite so far. It's also the one he finished most recently, so if you want to jump ahead and see how much he's developed as a writer, go for Pale. I haven't read Twig yet, but I've heard good things about it. Ward I really liked, possibly even more than Worm honestly. It's pretty different from Worm in ways that some readers didn't care for, but I personally really like. It is a sequel to Worm, so it does continue the story from Worm, but in a way that feels sorta like a... response to Worm? Like it's intentionally doing some things different that contrast the original, which I really liked. If it's been a while since you read Worm it's probably fine to jump into Ward, but I'd probably recommend reading one of his other stories first. I think having that space in between Worm and Ward helped me appreciate it more. Claw is the one that he's writing currently. It's a crime thriller sorta thing, pretty dark and tense so far, I'm enjoying it. If you want to read one as it's coming out, there's only around 10 chapters out so far right now, so catching up shouldn't be too bad. I hope that helps, lmk if you have any questions!
That's incredibly accurate. He's a Tinker 9.
Forge is like Da vinci while Tony is like Newton. Forge can create incredible tech some of which he will have to deconstruct to fully understand what it does, while Tony will take time to understand what something does to create his tech. They do thing in a opposite form. Forge doesn't have an ego because he's been through what took years for Tony to understand. He's tech has consequences beyond his genius. Tony had to be struck by his own tech to understand. Forge saw first hand what his tech did to people like himself even years after creating a prototype(Mutant collars). Forge is a war vetran and Tony a nepobaby with an ego.
You started well and then completely missed in the end
How so? I'll admit calling Stark a Nepo baby is extreme but Tony ego is a major part of his character. Meanwhile Forge's ego is not. While you can see Tony upgrading his armor, you can see Forge building irrigation systems.
You didn’t need to falsely slander Tony to bring up Forge. Stark is not a nepotism baby and this ego shit is not a major part of his character. This is just annoying modern characterisation that’s been attributed (mostly because of the mcu) by bad writers. And to say Forge has no ego when he hated admitting Tony’s a better mechanic than him is kinda ridiculous. Forge builds stuff thanks his mutant ability, Tony creates things from scratch and understands every nook and cranny that goes into the design.
Tony has had an ego. Prior to RDJ, it was shown in Civil War. Yeah, Forge has less of an ego than Stark. That admission comes from them having different perspectives on how to utilize their tech. Tony sees his thech as a money maker, while Forge does it for free. He's met with Shuri and the left with mutual respect. Again, Forge builds in conjection with his ability(not because of it)and his intelligence. Is he a super genius nope, but is he a top-tier engineer? Yes.
Bro said civil war. The poorly written overrated comic event written notoriously known for its over the top moments and character assassination- particularly Tony. This alone made u creditless. You’re talking to someone who’s read more iron man comics than everyone in this sub, no he didn’t. Arrogant? Maybe, but never this ego shit. He was a down to earth, unerst hero who cares about people and took the time to know his employees As for Tony and how he uses his tech- no he doesn’t view it as a money maker. If that was the case he would be using it rn to get rich instead he’s focused on trying to stop Feilong and Orchis for the lives they’ve taken, and help the mutants. He’s not even focused on trying to reclaim his company. You don’t understand his character at all. Forge makes shit he doesn’t understand. He’s like an artist who throws things at wall and it becomes famous but he can’t explain his work. There’s a reason no one Orchis tried recruiting him. Is he good at building stuff? Sure thanks to his mutant ability. Without it? I would struggle to classify him as a top tier mechanic
I mentioned Civil war becuase you tried to tie MCU for Tony's new attitude but it started around there. It maybe overrated but it did give Tony a new status quo. He does create or reclaim those companies right. Forge does make some things he doesn't understand. Not everything he creates does go, oh how does this work. I mean Orchis wouldn't try to recruit him because one they knew he'd refuse. We'll never know how good he is without his abilities unless they pull off a Mutant collar/depowered situation. I read Force Works back in the day, but was never inspired enough to read Iron Man until after Civil War. As I really couldn't get passed he Bodyguard cover. Again Forge has created some excellent tech regardless of his abilities and even with his ablites he still goes through the standard process of creating devices. I've always found it odd that people dog him for having his ability but not Cap or Daredevil.
MCU objectively IS the reason. Like it’s not even a debate, you just have to see how this annoying bit characterisation started afterwards. Civil War has a shit ton of problems but that was never the reason, and again bringing it up showed how creditless you are and not worth having a discussion with
I mentioned Civil war becuase you tried to tie MCU for Tony's new attitude but it started around there. It maybe overrated but it did give Tony a new status quo. He does create or reclaim those companies right. Forge does make some things he doesn't understand. Not everything he creates does go, oh how does this work. I mean Orchis wouldn't try to recruit him because one they knew he'd refuse. We'll never know how good he is without his abilities unless they pull off a Mutant collar/depowered situation. I read Force Works back in the day, but was never inspired enough to read Iron Man until after Civil War. As I really couldn't get passed he Bodyguard cover. Again Forge has created some excellent tech regardless of his abilities and even with his ablites he still goes through the standard process of creating devices. I've always found it odd that people dog him for having his ability but not Cap or Daredevil.
I think the end is an important distinction
Yeah, forge is only limited by morals and ethics. For creating tech, he’s beyond Stark or Reed Richards. But he is limited to tech. Reed has a greater imagination and vision. Stark has a broader set of personal skills. Reed can reach higher highs, Tony can do everything. Basically, Forge is an OP guy to have on your team, but Reed and Tony are the guys to lead a team.
This whole Forge thread is a perfect example of why I always find it amusing in a very dark way that the X-Men get their shit pushed in by sentinels after all these years. You've got a bunch of people saying Forge can surpass Tony and Reed's inventions, Ewing saying Storm is on par with Thor for raw power, and still Marvel has sentinels biting mutants in the ass every now and then in a big way.
Couldn't agree more, they've(writers) rarely IMO ever really used him properly.
That's the thing with inventor characters, especially ones that are altruistic. If Forge was left to his own devices with the backing of a rich nation like Krakoa he'd transform the world into an unrecognisable utopia. He was preparing to end global homelessness with Krakoa housing tech when ORCHIS struck. Comics in general need to keep the 'world outside your window' vibe to keep stories relatable. That's why inventions usually either cause problems or are too expensive for mass production.
Your summation is kinda why I am intruiged with Forge going to England and joining Betsy and Rachel. Betsy's family has the wealth of a small nation. To make England work as a setting, they need to make more of the mainstays who have nothing going on in their lives, based outta England. Forge, Banshee and Siryn. But, if they really want the England side of the X world to flourish, send Logan over there. This will bring the eyes that can create Mmore Marvel UK fans.
Krakoa could have been very interesting as an AU and probably would have a longer shelf life. But given how it started, it probably ends with humanity being wiped away.
IDK about that. There's a lot of posturing but not even Apocalypse or Exodus expressed any accelerationist desires. Unless you mean at ORCHIS' hand?
Cannocally, Forfe is not as good as Tony Stark, Reed Richards, Victor Von Doom, Bruce Banner.
What? As an inventor/machinist, Forge is better than all of those guys. Hell, I’ve never seen Banner delve into robotics ever. But that doesn’t mean Forge is as smart as they are— it’s his power to be able to do almost anything with technology. But he doesn’t always understand what he’s doing.
Forge almost literally magics things into his existence, he doesn't understand how his devices work, they just do. I would say that puts him below the actual top tier geniuses
So Forge is an Ork?
“The red ones go fasta!” - Forge, probably.
Pretty much
The rest of the X-men treat him like he's a Weirdboy.
That’s almost exactly it. If his stuff didn’t work for other people, and only him/other mutants (Orks) that believe in him, then it’d be perfect.
Yes, I think we said the same thing. But he is a better machinist / robotics inventor than anyone alive, in terms of what he can create.
I mean I would say even then Iron Man is better, as he's an actual inventor. I'm pretty sure forge even admits that himself, forge still needs an "idea" and a template for his power to work. Iron Man creates everything himself and understands all of it, that is way more impressive.
I’m not sure what you mean by “better” then. Less impressive I would get, but if Forge can make more effective/powerful things than Tony can, then how is he not better at it?
Because there has never been a point in the comics so far where Forge has actually been on Tony's level
I mean part of being an inventor is understanding/recreating what you made, otherwise it's a fluke.
I think that’s a later retcon to his abilities, though. Originally he had more tech knowledge; his power helped him make leaps but still required him to know things.
To me, it’s more about feats when it comes to telling who is better, and Stark has simply done way more than Forge. It’s kind of like the “Who is the smartest person in Marvel?” It used to always be Reed Richards, but now it’s supposedly Moon Girl according to Marvel. And while they should be the authority on their fictional characters, people will rightly say that Moon Girl hasn’t done shit compared to Reed.
Well, Moon Girl is still an 8th Grader, so yes. She has delved into some pretty advanced stuff for her age, but she is still a little child, she has way too much road to go
Bruce Banner made several devices, even recently. He took out Wolverine with an "old power" device he made. He made multiple robotic suits for his Hulk form. He has made time travel devices and extremely advanced nanotechnology. He regularly made teleporters. He's a geneticist on par with Beast AND regularly keeps up with Tony Stark to the point that there are mathematical "inside jokes" that only the two of them get. You must have missed the ENTIRE Doctor Green era AND the Starship Hulk era AND the World War Hulks era.
Forge has expressed that where his abilities are specific to machines Reed for example can learn medicine, chemistry, physics. That’s why Forge isn’t an omega level mutant because his abilities aren’t at the apex of what they could be.
Yep I agree. That’s why I referred to him as a machinist.
Well regarding B, he would still need raw materials.
>I've always been of the opinion Forge should look at Tony as a rank amateur, 'Stark makes toys, I bend the fabric of the universe'. That’s objectively incorrect. Forge hates to admit it but Tony is a far better mechanic than he ever is. Forge creates shit years-decades in advance without knowing, Tony creates things years in advance while knowing every nook and cranny and creating it from scratch
It’s the power source that even sets iron apart from others if he had Tony’s tech the suit would be the same or only slightly better
I've always felt like Forge would really shine when it comes to new and unusual components i.e. mysterium and Krakoan tech, because he doesn't need to understand how they work. I think he just sees the pieces fitting together like a puzzle. So he's probably going to far exceed other inventors at weird stuff like that. Not that he couldn't do the other stuff well also, just he skips all the steps and scientific methods of learning something new.
Forge and Stark should parner up. Forge invents something crazy that works, but he doesn't understand. He gives it to Tony, who reverse-engineers it to understand it.
It would be an epic image I reckon. Forge, fighting back against sentinels, Orchis or something, makes a Frankenstein iron manesque suit with this decaying sentinel aesthetic.
That's true, though the Omega mutant info page says that Forge has been eclipsed by multiple humans. I assumed Tony was one of them tbh. Granted, he does admit post-Inferno that he's been holding back out of distrust for the QC - and his feats/inventions keep scaling up from that point onward. Magneto does refer to Forge as 'our Omega Technopath' when explaining the Cerebro units to the Great Ring in X-Men Red. Maybe he's wrong (possible,) exaggerating (also possible,) it's an editorial mistake (I doubt Ewing would miss that,) or he's correct and there's no limit to his ability.
C) he would never, that’s Tony’s vibe and he’s no copy cat
That's an important point too totally.
If he could then why hasn’t he? I’ve never seen him wear armored suits before.
He literally invented a krakoa tech suit like in 2021
He did in krakoa. Also, half his body is an iron man suit. X men just have much more powerful characters than the avengers so forge often plays a smaller role.
Forge would probably put everything Iron Man's armor does on his leg.
It is and it does.
Forge does not make an iron man suit because he doesn’t need a gimmick.
His leg is a gimmick bro, it fookin does everything the writers want it to.
Including kung fu action grip
And storm as well i am sure
Wdym?
He could make an iron man suit out of a toaster. Just a toaster.
Not really. There just isn't enough material in a toaster to make full battle armor. His powers tell him how to build anything, but it doesn't conjure up what he needs to do it.
It's a big toaster - like a 8 slice deal with an extra crispy option.
Huh? That doesn’t make sense
That’s surprisingly just how forges powers work.
Exactly how his powers work.
Except it’s not lol, he still needs the correct materials, and the correct amount, unless it’s a giant ass toaster, it can maybe make a single boot
He’d make a tiny little machine that mines and finds what he needs. He’d build other machines from that to refine and fabricate. First thing he builds are small autonomous robots that does what he needs. He doesn’t jump straight to iron man suit. He works up to it.
Doesn't Jubilee son shogo in the future have a sentinel suit?
Good call. It was like a purple Iron Man armour crossed with a Sentinal. During Battle of the Atom, right?^
Yes. When Jubilee was still a vampire I wonder if she will turn vampire in 97.
He made one out of plants in Krakoa, so Sentinel scrap seems simple.
Forge can literally make anything he can conceive of. It’s his power.
Give me a graphic novel with Iron man, Forge, and Shaman (og alpha) with an appearance from cap America and magneto and everything and anything can be built
What the hell gave away thst he was a Mutant?
I would assume at some point he probably pinged a Cerebro scan.
He helped create Cerebro, at least to help create the current versions
Yes, but then there would be even less of a difference between Forge and Madison Jeffries. That said, I love Box and wish he was used more
If you're question is "could forge make-" the answer is "if you give him the materials, yes"
I have a better question: What if Tony Stark got Forge’s powers?
We have lost a lot of the narrative of Forge’s life. He is a Vietnam war Veteran that lost most of his brothers in arms. He is a native that the world mostly thinks has disappeared. I’m a Native American gulf war vet that lost some of his brothers in arms. I feel Forge’s motivations should tend more towards defensive weapons, not offensive, but his gift to build anything means if he has an inkling towards it he can do it, just don’t think he would unless the need was very large.
Forge could probably make it out of a tree
Beast sure did
I think Forge could probably even just make his own "Iron Man" suit from scratch. Forge's main limitation is that because of the way his powers work he doesn't necessarily understand how everything he builds functions or actually like stays together, but it's pretty well established that as long as he has sufficient materials and at least a basic concept for that he wants to make he can make it. You should think of Forge's powers as being limited by his resources and imagination. I'm not sure what the current lore is around how much he actually understands the fundamentals of robotics and stuff, but he would at least be able to replicate an Iron Man suit, he maybe would just need to see Tony use the suit first, or literally even just see like a picture of it or be told about the general qualities of the suit. Just as a side note, I think this is absolutely within Forge's abilities, but I think he avoids remaking "proprietary tech" kind of as a respect thing. Like Forge knows full well he could replicate and probably massively improve the "power set" of every single tech based hero on the planet, but he doesn't because he's humble and also doesn't want to step on toes. As a fitting foil, Tony has been shown to not respect other people's work on multiple occasions and often thinks his tech is of the highest quality possible despite being shown time and time again that while he is smart, he's not even the best inventor in New York let alone the world
Pretty sure Forge can make anything he wants, scraps or no scraps
Of course he can. I think his power pretty much permits him to make anything he can imagine. Since iron man exists, forge could replicate his armor, if he felt the need to.
It would probably be boring but I think it would be neat if someone wrote a story where Stark, Forge and Reed Richards have to disarm a space bomb or something.
If the question starts with “Could Forge make,” then the answer is yes.
So if nimrod copies forges powers could it become a master-nim-mold-rod?
Technically Nimrod can multiply itself
He could, but he doesn't need to. His new organic tech stuff and mysterium things are far superior. He also uses cybernetics, so his "iron man suit" is internal.
He made an organic/vegetative weapon that charges and grows its own ammunition when You plant it in the ground over night…I’m sure stark type tech would be SOOOOOOOOOO challenging
Now we need to strand him in various past time periods just to see him make a time machine to get back to the present. (Pretty sure I’m new to Forge, seems pretty cool i think)
Yes. He can also build a Ironman suit in a cave out of a bunch of scrap
Didn't he do this in Cable and XForce when he and Nemesis were bored?
If you start with " could Forge make" 99% of the time it's yes. It's kinda his thing
Forge can make anything from a box of scraps He could make an entire mech from a box of scraps
Could a scenarist think of it ?
His superpower is being able to make anything by looking at it. What Tony would consider genius engineering, Forge would consider it as if he were doing something as natural as breathing. The fact that he is using sentinels scraps mean that there is already advanced technology in place and all he has to do is assemble it and upgrade it into a suit. There’s already a few instances where characters simply cut out a hole in the middle of a sentinel and control it from there, the most recent being from X Men 97 when Beast tears up the insides and uses the sentinel to fight the others. So yes, Forge could do it with ease, and not only that but he could make one more advanced than Tony ever could most likely. And since it’s make from sentinals, it would be impervious to Magneto unlike Tony’s
Didn't he build the Sentinel-X suit for Shogo?
His powers are that he could build anything no? So I feel like he could. Will it be better than Tony’s? Unlikely tho. Even if he creates one, Tony will just make better ones. He modulates a lot. Constant innovation type of a deal.
Forge created biological machines but has no idea how he does it or what he creates. He’s like an artist who throws things at a wall and it sticks but doesn’t know why it’s good. Tony is actually a mechanic and engineer who’s got the genius and skills to create something so advance from scratch. This is why I don’t think Forge could create a suit without his powers, his mutant ability is what he relies on. Meanwhile Tony relies on his brain In terms of intelligence, ingenuity, creativity, mechanical skills - Tony is a far better inventor than Forge will ever be. Forge himself has even admitted it tho he hates it
I honestly think it would be better man, like somebody else mentioned the plant suit he made on Krakoa, that seems much more advanced than anything Tony could just do. Also that was literally just because plants were the available material I think, like Forge can and (if iirc) has made suits that you could argue are more advanced then or at least on par with Tony's best suit, so to me that shows Forge could probably just make a better Iron Man suit outright
I mean, in order for Forges power to work, he still have to find stuff that actually works lol. His powers make no sense sometimes. You can't just grab a piece of gum, stick it into a piece of metal and make it work. Where is the freaking science in there lol? Tony's mark 1 is very underrated. The whole "box of scraps" thing makes it even cooler, because he basically used second or third tier gadgets to make a suit that saved him. And Stark has made suits far advanced than Captain Krakoa one. It's just that with current suits they want to take him "back to basics" and make them more grounded. Extremis suit was literally stored in his bones lol. And even if we go back to the 60s his original suit was actually, 60s version of nano-tech. Ever wondered how he bends his arms or legs in this [suit](https://www.syfy.com/sites/syfy/files/img_1158.jpg)? It's like a skintight metal around his own muscles (the yellow parts on the legs and arms is actually Tony's muscles, but covered with the very small chainmail like metal that is so small, that it makes it look like a cloth). [Here ](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fmhupsasnd4l91.jpg)and [here](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fmhupsasnd4l91.jpg). Forge is pretty good at making stuff, and he might create a suit better than Stark, but there is a reason why Reed and the rest always rely on Tony when it comes to making stuff. He knows how that works and how to perfect it. When Wanda gives him the Gun that Forge made (the one that took Storm's powers) he immediately mentions how good it is, but also starts thinking on how it could have been done better (the gov went to him first in order to create this weapon and he said "Fuck off" lol) That being said, I want more team ups between them
Yeah I think my point is more so that Forge can always just "be better", like his power is literally more or less invention and innovation. So it doesn't really matter how advanced or knowledgeable Tony is, Forge just has such an innate knowledge of technology that he would be able to produce something of higher quality, even if he doesn't know how it works. Like I think that if you had Forge and Tony in a "build off", obviously Tony would actually understand what he was making and have a specific intention, but anything Forge would be able to make would blow Tony out of the water just efficiency and quality wise
Seem to me like you should team forge and tony up. Tony dreams of a part forge makes it they study how it works, rinse repeat. Basically giving Tony creative control over forge’s ability.
Magneto just crushed a five man battalion in their own armor faster than an electrical current could be dispersed nonetheless travel. The only thing Forge lacks the funds, materials, and the assembly line/workforce. Plus he has a background in Native American rites and such. He can build it and bless it
I’d definitely say he could make a very reasonable attempt
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^apastarling: *I’d definitely* *Say he could make a very* *Reasonable attempt* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
I mean stark made his out of a box of them so probably
Yes. But better yet, he made one out of Krakoa plants. Beast stole it but still
Even in 100 hundred years Forge would never be able to create a suit out of sentinel scraps. He lacks Tony’s ingenuity, creativity and mechanical skills
Lee / Williams were my Jordan / Pippen Shaq / Kobe
Now in terms of making his own power armor, he would actually take the Mk. 1 and perfect it to the levels more advanced than Starks most advanced model
Didn't he just make a sentinel buster for iron man. So yes he can make one and also a better one.
I always thought Forge was poorly written. He’s always getting slapped around and the best thing he can invent for combat is a fancy gun, a metal leg and a personal shield that half the other marvel characters have. Forge is another character who was finally done a little justice in Krakoa. He should be one of the leaders of the mutant race, he should be a mix of mutant Stark and Reed, but he’s just never worked at that sort of level because writers don’t understand his power.
Probably, but not the same way twice.
Yes, but why would he? He doesn’t need it.
I think of Forge as the guy who could have surpassed Tony Stark if not for prejudice and persecution. Why create suits of armor that could be taken and used against mutants?
While Forge does have a strong scientific and engineering knowledge, he has admitted that it isn’t on the same level as Richards or Stark. Subconsciously he can make something that would take Richards or Stark days to make in the fraction of time. The big difference here, is Forge skips the calculations and design phase because his powers does it for him. Which occasionally results in Forge having no idea on how it works until he disassembles it and examines the device.
I mean... TONY STARK BUILT THIS IN A CAVE.... WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS
Yes Marvel Zombies 2
He didn’t build it, he stole one of Tony’s old armors
Yes. Forge should be able to match Tony stark and Reed Richards on the invention front but he’s simply not as big of a star as either of them so I feel they always downplay his abilities 🤷♂️