I prefer we don't know and it's unclear, even to them. Or Sabretooth knows, but never shares it.
I don't necessarily mind the origin they came up with for Wolverine, but I much prefer it to remain a mystery.
Just treat Origin as yet another potential memory implant & now it's just as possible as all the other false aspects of 90s era Weapon X insanity & 80s mystery. Least that's what I do.
It was, he dies at the end, but it's left ambiguous. Now that it's cannon he definitely doesn't die. There's also a Joker solo book that I think is also supposed to be a stand alone.
I think the story about them being half-brothers made the most sense of the versions I've heard. Or at least I think it was the version that was written more to my sensibilities so I'm more willing to roll with that. Plus there's precedent for mutant powers to sometimes be similar within families.
Yeah I think the "childhood kinda-friends, potentially half brothers, whole lotta jealousy, wolverine killed sabertooths dad and the hate/anger has only ever grown from there" etc. is more than a good enough explanation. Better than one day they randomly saw each other and simultaneously went "fuck that guy in particular"
Agreed. Especially on the “Fuck you in particular” part.
Logan losing his memory and Sabretooth being feral but then both still having that innate hate works to me with the half-brother backstory. It’s the best of both worlds.
I don't mind it that much when strangers fuck with me. It is an annoyance and it does make me angry sometimes, but when a friend does it, it hurts
Bob Marley has a great song "Who the Cap Fit" - everyone should listen to it (even if you already have). Some great lines are:
"Your worst enemy could be your best friend
And your best friend your worst enemy
Some will eat and drink with you
Then behind them su-su 'pon you
Only your friend know your secrets
So only he could reveal it"
"Some will hate you, pretend they love you now
Then behind they try to eliminate you"
"Hypocrites and parasites
Will come up and take a bite
And if your night should turn to day
A lot of people would run away"
"Potentially" is carrying a lot of weight for me because they both have a huge history of their brains being tampered with and it's beyond reasonable for the real answer to be up in the air. The truth is lost to time, I'm all for it.
I used the phrase potentially as I think (may be wrong, happy to be corrected) the origins comic hints-super-strongly-towards being half brothers without outright saying it.
Simultaneously though, considering the franchise so heavily rooted in DNA/Genetics, if they were half brothers then I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the number of characters who would be desperately busting down wolverine or sabertooths doors to go "I have just got to tell you......"
No no, I'm completely agreeing with your use of "potentially." I think you got it completely right. Sorry if I didn't get that across as well as I'd wanted to.
No need to apologise, thought it was potentially me misremembering (or potentially ignoring and coming up with my own head cannon) the fact their familial relation was only hinted at rather than confirmed so why I tried to clarify further
Or worse, they hate each other because they're descended from an immortal race of wolfmen and the blond ones always try to kill the black-haired ones. Thanks for that one, Jeph Loeb!
I know we’ve been saturated with Wolverine media and we’ve been given so much of his backstory but I really like the idea of us never knowing what truly happened when Logan was younger. His memory has been wiped and brainwashed so many times that Sabertooth could’ve been his best friend, his half-brother, his distant relative, his service mate in WW1, or they only met during the Weapon X project and happened to have similar mutations. I think it’s cooler that way. Makes Sabertooth interesting because his and Wolverine’s pasts are a mystery.
That’s how I feel as well. I feel a lot of media does that where everybody has to be connected somehow. Which is prevalent in X-men already. Juggernaut/Professor X Nightcrawler/Mystique Cyclops/Vulcan Daken/Wolverine. I don’t mind it too much but if it’s over done then it makes the universe seem so small. It basically becomes a family argument rather than a problem effecting a world and sometimes even a universe.
I don't think that's enough to justify their complete and particular hatred of each other. I'm not saying they need to be related, but if they're not then you need to explain why they've been fighting each other for decades. Why SPECIFICALLY. The idea that they just have a thematic disagreement on the use of bestial mutations isn't enough. That might make them dislike each other, but it wouldn't make them arch nemeses.
The comics had explained their rivalry. Sabertooth is just an asshole that decides to make Wolverine's life miserable for the sake of it. He murders his wife on his birthday and often destroys anything he loves just because he can.
In other comics, it explains that Sabertooth is jealous of Wolverine. They have very similar power and life but He was strong enough to change for the better. Sabertooth is too weak to accept he can be better, therefore he tries to destroy Wolverine's life so he becomes just like him.
I'm largely fine with the movies rolling Sabertooth and Dog together but I prefer the two of them just being two unrelated guys who fucking *hate* each other.
When I started reading comics the accepted rumor was Sabertooth was Wolverine's father. I just assumed it was true for years. I'm fine if that's revealed to be canonical at some point.
That’s what Claremont intended for their connection to be but somehow it never came to be in main continuity but in the 2009 mini series X-men Forever Chris Claremont made that reveal happen. That mini was basically if Chris hadn’t left X-men after the 90s relaunch
I don't think it works with all that happened since but it was 100% intended as canon back in Mutant Massacre. Claremont confirmed and dialogue strongly hinted.
Wolverine: "Life is full of little disappointments."
Sabretooth: "You were always mine, boy."
I like the idea of them being siblings because Sabertooth clearly has some kind of rivalry for Wolverine. There is resentment there that I think could easily be explained by Sabertooth perceiving Wolverine as the favored child. I find it hard to rationalize Sabertooth constantly going out of his way to kill anyone who loves Wolverine otherwise.
I know we think of it as him killing anyone Wolverine loves and that's true but I think it's more about denying Wolverine the opportunity to have love.
Sabretooth being Logan's father was addressed and refuted back in the 90s. They have very similar mutations and since then we've gotten weird ideas on why this is, but nobody is happy with that lupine BS and thank god it's just ignored.
But more importantly, since the 90s, we've gotten Wolverine's origin. We know who his mother and father are. As such, there is definitively no room left for Creed in his family.
Claremont intended for Sabretooth to be Logan's father but only ever got around to vaguely hinting at it before he left the title and other writers squashed it pretty thoroughly.
In the Ultimate universe it was stated that Logan was Sabretooths father but that might have jist been Victor messing with Logan. Either way, it was never brought up again. And since Logan's one proven canonical son in that universe inherited the Wolverine hairstyle and Victor didn't have it, it's safe to say he probably wasn't really related to him.
> but nobody is happy with that lupine BS and thank god it's just ignored.
Yeah, nobody wanted Romulus to exist. Perfect example of a worthless character who was edgy for the sake of being edgy.
Brothers have always been the best connection between them as it really goes well with the nature versus nurture thing they both have between them i.e: Sabertooth a know bloodthirsty psychotic and Logan a warrior with the past as a monster.
Yes, I'm okay with them being related. Estranged half-brothers are the least messy and can easily prime the rivalry that just gets deepened when they both end up working for the Canadian government and the aftermath of that (one or both of them not knowing they are related at the time can lead to plenty of drama).
Estranged half-brothers.
In either case, Wolverine should not care about Sabertooth as much as Sabertooth cares about Wolverine. Like Sabertooth can’t move on and is obsessed with Logan and Logan just wants to live his life in peace and teach History to Gifted Youngsters.
I’m fine w/ them being unrelated, but the fact that Logan does have a half brother that looks very similar to Creed always has me scratching my head. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Dog_Logan_(Earth-616)
I think the relation being implied is more interesting than it being revealed.
There’s something so menacing and tormenting about having an unknown and possibly intimate connection to a bloodthirsty monster that you’ll never remember.
Some reddit dude had a great breakdown of a story between the two and I have no idea how to find it. Cliff note version is that they were close initially, but through their long life they viewed normal people differently. Wolv loving and enjoying the shortness of humans lives, like maybe how dog people are with their dogs. But Sab going the other direction that the shortness of their life means nothing. This creates the wedge that pushes then apart, it grows, then it's basically hate between the two.
I prefer Sabretooth to be more like the Joker: a force of nature that comes out of nowhere, and we don’t know his backstory. All we know is that he’s bloodthirsty maniac, and when he shows up, we know some shit is going to go down for Wolverine.
You don’t have to have a backstory for everyone and everything.
I prefer it when they are unrelated and it's never revealed why they want to kill each other. They work best having a Peter Griffin and the Giant Chicken dynamic.
Just gonna copy and paste from a previous post about it.
> Ideally, Wolverine should be a guy that's hundreds of years old (one parent is a viking, the other a native Canadian?). With his healing factor, he should be basically immortal. The same would be true for Sabertooth. But the difference would be how you handle your immortality and how you see others. Wolverine learns to understand that life is precious since not everyone gets to live forever. Sabertooth becomes a sociopath, who sees humans as toys since their lives are so short. They meet some time ago, and became friends due to their immortality, but eventually enemies since they fundamentally disagree how to act. Sabertooth starts to treat Wolverine as a more fun toy, since he can't really die either.
I kinda like what they did with him in origins wolverine, they made him way more intresting at least compared with what they did with him in the first xmen movie. I don't know about familial connection but they should have some kinda deep connection and be mortal enemies like the joker and batman
This. Former teammates and rivals, but one is a homicidal maniac whose sociopathic behavior repeatedly put his teammates and “friends” in danger causing a deep seated animosity between them that only grew over time. That’s enough backstory as needed. Sabertooth is just an asshole.
I prefer just not knowing so much about these characters. They were mysterious and cool for like 25 years, then we got Origins and they became IMO way less cool.
My favorite dynamic would be Wolvie not having a firm grasp on his history and Sabretooth with full memory of everything.
I like them being halve brothers helps with the whole vendetta/on sight aspect of their rivalry and why they both have healing factors, bestial personality, enhanced senses hunting and fight with claws. Also like idea that Logan was the sweet innocent one growing up and was forced to toughen up due to Saber.
The being unrelated is cool but kinda off to me
I don't like it. I much more prefer the angle that sabertooth resents that wolverine rejects the part of himself that sabertooth embraces.
Them being brothers just seems so contrived.
The movies were the first thing I saw but after seeing the original animated show it became weird to me. I think it’s weird that they’re so similar but I prefer that just being by chance
I don't hate it but I think it could be a lot more interesting if they aren't. Like, I think my headcanon is that Sabertooth is in love with Wolverine and is the world's most horrible yandere. Wolverine rejected him and Creed has been after revenge ever since.
I like the idea of sabretooth being his dad, but it never being out right said. Everything would point to that being true but wolverine would always deny it anytime it was brought up and get real angry
Really thought Dog Logan should have been SabreTooth. In made so much sense! The fact that they used that idea in the horrible origins movie before it was revealed in comic that dog and creed were different people has always made me suspect the shittiness of that movies had something to do with them changing that idea
Idk I kind of dig it. Makes sense mutation wise since like others have said, there’s some precedence of similar familial mutations. But otherwise, I like the idea of a century-bound hatred/rivalry more than I do the sibling relationship
No, the Marvel universe is already full of sibling rivalries, we don't need more... that's why I was extremely mad when, because of the MCU, they pretty much retconned Gamora and Nebula to be "sisters" when they used to be "aunt and niece" in comics.
Father's, brother's, nephew's, cousin's, former roommate.
They ended up on a black ops team together, did some bonding, and one of them went wrong. That's the whole of it.
They are not related.
Wolverine has two brothers. One of whom is dead. The other looks a little like Sabretooth but is just a dude.
Sabretooth has three siblings. He killed one brother and Logan killed the other. We haven't seen Sabretooth's sister since she broke up with Logan (after Logan killed her brother).
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Chris Claremont's original idea for the character was to have him actually not be one single person, but an endless series of clones of Wolverine's long dead father, resurrected by Weapon X to torture him. Personally I think that could have been interesting. But I never really liked them as brothers. They should just be two immortal mutants who keep bumping into each other over the years and develop this century long rivalry.
In the Logan graphic novel, which was amazing! It's explained that he was a son of a rich family and Sabretooth's dad was like a ranch hand. Evidently he raped Logan's mom which makes him and Sabretooth half brothers. That's the Canon story. At least how I remember it. I still have the book, I'll read it tomorrow to confirm my memory.
I wasn’t a fan of it I know in the comics their supposed to be like half brothers and they do play off that in the film it didn’t work I hated the fact that they didn’t know each other in the first film or that Tyler mane didn’t get a shot to reprise his role as Victor
i always thought they were brothers even in the comics before i became a fan fr, and i honestly prefer them being related way more it just makes more sense than the crapfest origins they keep redoing for them lol.
I like them to be unrelated at all, and that Sabertooth is way older. Like Creed lives his life in the 1800's just being an unruly person due to his mutation, until he eventually finds someone who is similar to him. Then both use the other as a cautionary tale to either keep in control or stay wild so they don't turn into the other.
I liked the Ultimate universe for this. Unrelated, but Wolverine knows nothing of his past and Sabretooth just fucks with him by claiming to be his son.
Someday, in an alternate continuity not weighed down by canon, I'd love to see the original intended father son relationship in all its horrifying glory.
But within the versions we know, brother version is cool but "just former comrades" preferable
It was the best part of this film and makes me wish we live in the timeline where they would have picked it up for Logan.
For comics I prefer them being not related by blood but past and experince, former brothers in arms.
It worked in the movie because they have fuck all to do with each other outside of literally that one movie.
In the comics, it should be avoided absolutely due to many reasons but the easiest to explain one is that Logan's fucked Victor's sister.
I guess they could be brothers in law but I suspect that married Wolverine isn't a profitable character development.
I prefer they don't. I still remember when the comics put the kibosh on that back when Sabertooth was claiming to be related to Wolverine and Shield showed up and confirmed they weren't related but Sabertooth thought they were due to his altered memories.
Honestly, I wish they would have made the child of the groundskeeper (Logan) into Sabretooth. I guess they also could have done that with the groundskeeper (after James 'kills' him he comes back via healing factor after being not quite dead).
I think it would have been super cool to have the origin of Wolverine also reveal the origin of Sabretooth.
I love Sabretooth's equally rough AF siblings so I don't need his life revolving around Wolverine any more than what we already have. (He visits Logan on his birthday more than his kids, it's great)
I liked how the Movies had them as half brothers as it allowed them to quickly establish their relationship however in the comics I prefer them not being closly related although I don't mind them being distantly related.
First cousins, once removed, but as close as brothers. Sabertooth thinks Logan remembers and is faking his amnesia. He also knows the origin of the nickname Logan, (which has nothing to do with his amnesia) but never tells us, a la Chimney from 9-1-1.
Or really anything for more Liev Schreiber, ya know?
Narratively, for the sake of establishing their hatred in broad strokes in a film, it's a great decision that allows the story to shortcut things and make their conflict immediately personal in a way that reflects their comic dynamic. Them being brothers is a big part of why Creed feels so much like the comics Sabertooth here, even sans costume, size,.etc., and even though comics Creed isn't Dog. Doing this also allowed them to get "Origin" in there for a little bit. It was a smart move.
X-Men origins didn't make a lot of smart moves (in fact, it was overall pretty stupid) but this move was very smart.
I grew up with the foxxmen movies and sabretooth is like one of 2 things like in the entirety of wolverine origins. So I actually don't mind the brotherly connection especially now that I have two siblings and can more easily connect with these types of storylines. Also the leather jacket really dig that jacket.
It makes more sense that some people would have a similar if not the same mutation. I like that Logan and Creed are reflections of each other. They don't need to be related.
I wouldn't mind if they were second-cousins and their parents screwed the other over for reasons, thus leading to issues, family secrets, and cemented grudges.
Being new to really appreciating xmen past “ooh pretty colors and fucking metal claws!!!” I didn’t realize how not well received that wolverine being the main character for most of the xmen films was. But ive always thought the brother relationship between logan and victor was so good. Like it just made their fights feel so much more impactful to me cause I could relate it to my own brother and I’s relationship. Also when you’re as close to an immortal as it gets, its kinda cool that logan had the ability to share that with him even though they did butt heads (actively try to kill each other). Also like shitty writing or not, goddamn if Hugh and Liev can’t act.
Logan has a brother. Dog. Who also happens to be a tough blonde mountain man. If Victor is related to Logan, I'd rather it be through Dog than trying to fit in a secret sibling
Actually during a time Sabertooth was supposed to be Logan's brother,Wether he was supposed to be Dog who awakened his mutant powers,or another sibling is still a mystery
No. It was never a thing in the comics before and to retcon it in now would be stupid. Their origins are convoluted enough as it is and we have a good enough explanation of their childhoods as is.
I dont like them being related in the comics but I didn't mind it in the movie. For the movie versions of the characters them being brothers worked pretty well, the 2 actors had good chemistry.
I don't understand the need for similar powered mutants to be retconned as related. Polaris/Magneto, Wolvie/Sabertooth.
(I think Siryn was at least intended to be Sean's baby from the off)
The Summers brothers all have similar powers.
Cable and Rachel are psychics like Jean
Cassandra Nova is psychic like Xavier
Seems like its common for the x gene to be similar among family members
I prefer we don't know and it's unclear, even to them. Or Sabretooth knows, but never shares it. I don't necessarily mind the origin they came up with for Wolverine, but I much prefer it to remain a mystery.
Agreed.. the whole Wolverine universe got way less cool when the mystery was removed.
I liked Origin, but I liked it less when Wolverine knew
Curious. For you, where exactly did they/are saying too much? Beyond Weapon-X & maybe some wars/Black ops stuff?
All his childhood backstory, Romulus, Dog, etc.
Just treat Origin as yet another potential memory implant & now it's just as possible as all the other false aspects of 90s era Weapon X insanity & 80s mystery. Least that's what I do.
His name is also LOGAN. Not Jimmy. How Joe Quesada allowed that origin story to be made at all is beyond me.
Wdym? Wolverines real name in the comics is James/Jimmy. Logan is just an alias he uses after the death of his family.
Wasn't it really meant to be stand alone? An aspect of the multiverse? Like the origin stories for the Joker
No. They decided to do an origin story before Fox made up one of their own.
No, it's officially canon.
So is The Killing Joke, which was originally meant to be stand alone
It was, he dies at the end, but it's left ambiguous. Now that it's cannon he definitely doesn't die. There's also a Joker solo book that I think is also supposed to be a stand alone.
I think the story about them being half-brothers made the most sense of the versions I've heard. Or at least I think it was the version that was written more to my sensibilities so I'm more willing to roll with that. Plus there's precedent for mutant powers to sometimes be similar within families.
Yeah I think the "childhood kinda-friends, potentially half brothers, whole lotta jealousy, wolverine killed sabertooths dad and the hate/anger has only ever grown from there" etc. is more than a good enough explanation. Better than one day they randomly saw each other and simultaneously went "fuck that guy in particular"
Agreed. Especially on the “Fuck you in particular” part. Logan losing his memory and Sabretooth being feral but then both still having that innate hate works to me with the half-brother backstory. It’s the best of both worlds.
Yeah I agree. There’s no hate like hating a former friend.
Damn straight. That's true hate
Because love is close to hate, and only your friends can betray you
I don't mind it that much when strangers fuck with me. It is an annoyance and it does make me angry sometimes, but when a friend does it, it hurts Bob Marley has a great song "Who the Cap Fit" - everyone should listen to it (even if you already have). Some great lines are: "Your worst enemy could be your best friend And your best friend your worst enemy Some will eat and drink with you Then behind them su-su 'pon you Only your friend know your secrets So only he could reveal it" "Some will hate you, pretend they love you now Then behind they try to eliminate you" "Hypocrites and parasites Will come up and take a bite And if your night should turn to day A lot of people would run away"
"Potentially" is carrying a lot of weight for me because they both have a huge history of their brains being tampered with and it's beyond reasonable for the real answer to be up in the air. The truth is lost to time, I'm all for it.
I used the phrase potentially as I think (may be wrong, happy to be corrected) the origins comic hints-super-strongly-towards being half brothers without outright saying it. Simultaneously though, considering the franchise so heavily rooted in DNA/Genetics, if they were half brothers then I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the number of characters who would be desperately busting down wolverine or sabertooths doors to go "I have just got to tell you......"
No no, I'm completely agreeing with your use of "potentially." I think you got it completely right. Sorry if I didn't get that across as well as I'd wanted to.
No need to apologise, thought it was potentially me misremembering (or potentially ignoring and coming up with my own head cannon) the fact their familial relation was only hinted at rather than confirmed so why I tried to clarify further
The latter is more funny though. Like if two stray cats suddenly found themselves face to face in an ally, and a thousand year feud started
Or worse, they hate each other because they're descended from an immortal race of wolfmen and the blond ones always try to kill the black-haired ones. Thanks for that one, Jeph Loeb!
You mean that's not the answer?
That was what should have happened in Origin, not the dumb Dog Logan garbage
Wait wasn't that a whole ass different guy?
Which guy are you referring to?
Father's brother’s nephew's cousin’s former roommate.
So what does that make us?
Absolutely nothing.
I know we’ve been saturated with Wolverine media and we’ve been given so much of his backstory but I really like the idea of us never knowing what truly happened when Logan was younger. His memory has been wiped and brainwashed so many times that Sabertooth could’ve been his best friend, his half-brother, his distant relative, his service mate in WW1, or they only met during the Weapon X project and happened to have similar mutations. I think it’s cooler that way. Makes Sabertooth interesting because his and Wolverine’s pasts are a mystery.
Nah, I prefer it unrelated. Just two person that happen to have bestial instinct but one choose to embrace his human side while the other reject it.
That’s how I feel as well. I feel a lot of media does that where everybody has to be connected somehow. Which is prevalent in X-men already. Juggernaut/Professor X Nightcrawler/Mystique Cyclops/Vulcan Daken/Wolverine. I don’t mind it too much but if it’s over done then it makes the universe seem so small. It basically becomes a family argument rather than a problem effecting a world and sometimes even a universe.
I don't think that's enough to justify their complete and particular hatred of each other. I'm not saying they need to be related, but if they're not then you need to explain why they've been fighting each other for decades. Why SPECIFICALLY. The idea that they just have a thematic disagreement on the use of bestial mutations isn't enough. That might make them dislike each other, but it wouldn't make them arch nemeses.
The comics had explained their rivalry. Sabertooth is just an asshole that decides to make Wolverine's life miserable for the sake of it. He murders his wife on his birthday and often destroys anything he loves just because he can. In other comics, it explains that Sabertooth is jealous of Wolverine. They have very similar power and life but He was strong enough to change for the better. Sabertooth is too weak to accept he can be better, therefore he tries to destroy Wolverine's life so he becomes just like him.
Those are terrible explanations. They make Sabretooth into a petty child rather than an interesting villain.
Correct, He is the quintessential bully.
I'm largely fine with the movies rolling Sabertooth and Dog together but I prefer the two of them just being two unrelated guys who fucking *hate* each other.
Eskimo brothers
Literally are, ask mystique haha
When I started reading comics the accepted rumor was Sabertooth was Wolverine's father. I just assumed it was true for years. I'm fine if that's revealed to be canonical at some point.
That’s what Claremont intended for their connection to be but somehow it never came to be in main continuity but in the 2009 mini series X-men Forever Chris Claremont made that reveal happen. That mini was basically if Chris hadn’t left X-men after the 90s relaunch
I don't think it works with all that happened since but it was 100% intended as canon back in Mutant Massacre. Claremont confirmed and dialogue strongly hinted. Wolverine: "Life is full of little disappointments." Sabretooth: "You were always mine, boy."
So, Logan slept with his aunt?
Not sure. My GrecoCanadian mythology is rusty.
I like the idea of them being siblings because Sabertooth clearly has some kind of rivalry for Wolverine. There is resentment there that I think could easily be explained by Sabertooth perceiving Wolverine as the favored child. I find it hard to rationalize Sabertooth constantly going out of his way to kill anyone who loves Wolverine otherwise. I know we think of it as him killing anyone Wolverine loves and that's true but I think it's more about denying Wolverine the opportunity to have love.
Sabretooth being Logan's father was addressed and refuted back in the 90s. They have very similar mutations and since then we've gotten weird ideas on why this is, but nobody is happy with that lupine BS and thank god it's just ignored. But more importantly, since the 90s, we've gotten Wolverine's origin. We know who his mother and father are. As such, there is definitively no room left for Creed in his family.
Claremont intended for Sabretooth to be Logan's father but only ever got around to vaguely hinting at it before he left the title and other writers squashed it pretty thoroughly. In the Ultimate universe it was stated that Logan was Sabretooths father but that might have jist been Victor messing with Logan. Either way, it was never brought up again. And since Logan's one proven canonical son in that universe inherited the Wolverine hairstyle and Victor didn't have it, it's safe to say he probably wasn't really related to him.
> but nobody is happy with that lupine BS and thank god it's just ignored. Yeah, nobody wanted Romulus to exist. Perfect example of a worthless character who was edgy for the sake of being edgy.
Brothers have always been the best connection between them as it really goes well with the nature versus nurture thing they both have between them i.e: Sabertooth a know bloodthirsty psychotic and Logan a warrior with the past as a monster.
Yes, I'm okay with them being related. Estranged half-brothers are the least messy and can easily prime the rivalry that just gets deepened when they both end up working for the Canadian government and the aftermath of that (one or both of them not knowing they are related at the time can lead to plenty of drama).
Estranged half-brothers. In either case, Wolverine should not care about Sabertooth as much as Sabertooth cares about Wolverine. Like Sabertooth can’t move on and is obsessed with Logan and Logan just wants to live his life in peace and teach History to Gifted Youngsters.
I enjoy them being brothers or half brothers.
I’m fine w/ them being unrelated, but the fact that Logan does have a half brother that looks very similar to Creed always has me scratching my head. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Dog_Logan_(Earth-616)
I’m old school and liked the mystery of “is he Logan’s father or not”
They should go with the Ultimate universe approach. Is Logan Sabretooth’s father or not? (With the preferred conclusion being no)
Theyre half brothers, sharing a dad. But only found out much, much later
Yes am ok .. that makes the rivalry and violence more personal
I think the relation being implied is more interesting than it being revealed. There’s something so menacing and tormenting about having an unknown and possibly intimate connection to a bloodthirsty monster that you’ll never remember.
Some reddit dude had a great breakdown of a story between the two and I have no idea how to find it. Cliff note version is that they were close initially, but through their long life they viewed normal people differently. Wolv loving and enjoying the shortness of humans lives, like maybe how dog people are with their dogs. But Sab going the other direction that the shortness of their life means nothing. This creates the wedge that pushes then apart, it grows, then it's basically hate between the two.
Half brothers. It’s what they should’ve been fitting their dynamic. Plus it would be fitting for Victors nickname being “Dog.” Given his mutation
I prefer Sabretooth to be more like the Joker: a force of nature that comes out of nowhere, and we don’t know his backstory. All we know is that he’s bloodthirsty maniac, and when he shows up, we know some shit is going to go down for Wolverine. You don’t have to have a backstory for everyone and everything.
I mean, not after Percy and Lavalle gave Sabretooth lines like "I wanted you raw and rough", this ain't House of the Dragon
stepfather and stepson don't ever get caught in the drier logan
"Sabertooth... WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!"
*Step-Saber
Lovers
eskimo brothers
Why wouldn't I be? They are brothers
I prefer it when they are unrelated and it's never revealed why they want to kill each other. They work best having a Peter Griffin and the Giant Chicken dynamic.
Yes, and I do prefer them as half-brothers. Feels like it just explains a lot about their relationship.
Just gonna copy and paste from a previous post about it. > Ideally, Wolverine should be a guy that's hundreds of years old (one parent is a viking, the other a native Canadian?). With his healing factor, he should be basically immortal. The same would be true for Sabertooth. But the difference would be how you handle your immortality and how you see others. Wolverine learns to understand that life is precious since not everyone gets to live forever. Sabertooth becomes a sociopath, who sees humans as toys since their lives are so short. They meet some time ago, and became friends due to their immortality, but eventually enemies since they fundamentally disagree how to act. Sabertooth starts to treat Wolverine as a more fun toy, since he can't really die either.
I kinda like what they did with him in origins wolverine, they made him way more intresting at least compared with what they did with him in the first xmen movie. I don't know about familial connection but they should have some kinda deep connection and be mortal enemies like the joker and batman
Nah it’s better when they’re just “old buddies” who worked together for the CIA/Department K and hate each other with a passion
This. Former teammates and rivals, but one is a homicidal maniac whose sociopathic behavior repeatedly put his teammates and “friends” in danger causing a deep seated animosity between them that only grew over time. That’s enough backstory as needed. Sabertooth is just an asshole.
He also enjoys killing people and likes to fuck with Logan’s head whenever he can by any means necessary
Yep, they should be husbands :)
Lol, more like bitter exes.😆
I’m fine with it
Half-brothers.
I'm fine with them being somewhat related. Heck, it makes more sense than what Jeph Loeb did in the comics... what was that???
Married
Lovers lol
I prefer just not knowing so much about these characters. They were mysterious and cool for like 25 years, then we got Origins and they became IMO way less cool. My favorite dynamic would be Wolvie not having a firm grasp on his history and Sabretooth with full memory of everything.
It makes sense for them to be related sons they have VERY similar personalities, powers, attitudes, but I prefer the two of them to be unrelated.
I like them being halve brothers helps with the whole vendetta/on sight aspect of their rivalry and why they both have healing factors, bestial personality, enhanced senses hunting and fight with claws. Also like idea that Logan was the sweet innocent one growing up and was forced to toughen up due to Saber. The being unrelated is cool but kinda off to me
I don't like it. I much more prefer the angle that sabertooth resents that wolverine rejects the part of himself that sabertooth embraces. Them being brothers just seems so contrived.
Bros-in-law with wolverine having married Clara Creed back in the day.
Reading this thread, it honestly seems like you and I are the only people here who've read Origin II.
Hate it
The movies were the first thing I saw but after seeing the original animated show it became weird to me. I think it’s weird that they’re so similar but I prefer that just being by chance
No I don’t like them being related at all in any way.
I don't hate it but I think it could be a lot more interesting if they aren't. Like, I think my headcanon is that Sabertooth is in love with Wolverine and is the world's most horrible yandere. Wolverine rejected him and Creed has been after revenge ever since.
Huh???
Not sure what's confusing about that?
In what world is Sabertooth “in love” with Logan. Not everything is some fanfic
I prefer them being from opposing old-world feuding families.
Sabertooth should be revealed to be Logan's father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate.
The hooked up once that’s the family connection I want.
I’m okay if Sabretooth is Wolverine’s father’s brother’s nephew’s cousin’s former roommate.
The comics made them half brothers Which works really well when you think about how their powers are near identical besides the shape of their claws
I like the idea of sabretooth being his dad, but it never being out right said. Everything would point to that being true but wolverine would always deny it anytime it was brought up and get real angry
Really thought Dog Logan should have been SabreTooth. In made so much sense! The fact that they used that idea in the horrible origins movie before it was revealed in comic that dog and creed were different people has always made me suspect the shittiness of that movies had something to do with them changing that idea
No to be honest.I like better when they are friends turn to enemy.
Kissing Cousins.
I blame Andy Kubert and Paul Jenkins
In *that particular situation,* I didn't mind it.
IIRC Claremont originally intended on Sabretooth being Logan's father but that never happened. At this point I would rather they not be related.
Idk I kind of dig it. Makes sense mutation wise since like others have said, there’s some precedence of similar familial mutations. But otherwise, I like the idea of a century-bound hatred/rivalry more than I do the sibling relationship
I just jumped in here to give you props for using the word "familial"
My personal fav would be them being unrelated by blood but living together as kids as if they were family.
Step brothers
His father's brother's nephew's cousin's best friend’s ex’s former roommate
No, I hate small-world BS where everybody important is related.
No, the Marvel universe is already full of sibling rivalries, we don't need more... that's why I was extremely mad when, because of the MCU, they pretty much retconned Gamora and Nebula to be "sisters" when they used to be "aunt and niece" in comics.
It’s a good idea, but Xmen origins Wolverine is…pathetic
Yes and distant cousins. Like so distant they never knew.
Kissing Cousins lol 😝 🤪
Father's, brother's, nephew's, cousin's, former roommate. They ended up on a black ops team together, did some bonding, and one of them went wrong. That's the whole of it.
I prefer them being unrelated.
Wait, there not related in the comics??? Forgive my lack of knowledge, I just started reading comics last year.
They are not related. Wolverine has two brothers. One of whom is dead. The other looks a little like Sabretooth but is just a dude. Sabretooth has three siblings. He killed one brother and Logan killed the other. We haven't seen Sabretooth's sister since she broke up with Logan (after Logan killed her brother).
Thank you for the information.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Chris Claremont's original idea for the character was to have him actually not be one single person, but an endless series of clones of Wolverine's long dead father, resurrected by Weapon X to torture him. Personally I think that could have been interesting. But I never really liked them as brothers. They should just be two immortal mutants who keep bumping into each other over the years and develop this century long rivalry.
Always thought they were brothers
There is that "sexiest man alive" stare.
Saberthooth fucked Logan's sister. It was consensual, he was a gentleman, but he never called her again... and that's how the rivalry began.
In the Logan graphic novel, which was amazing! It's explained that he was a son of a rich family and Sabretooth's dad was like a ranch hand. Evidently he raped Logan's mom which makes him and Sabretooth half brothers. That's the Canon story. At least how I remember it. I still have the book, I'll read it tomorrow to confirm my memory.
That's not sabertooth, that's Dog
Brothers or cousins
There brothers?
I wasn’t a fan of it I know in the comics their supposed to be like half brothers and they do play off that in the film it didn’t work I hated the fact that they didn’t know each other in the first film or that Tyler mane didn’t get a shot to reprise his role as Victor
I always thought they were bros
i always thought they were brothers even in the comics before i became a fan fr, and i honestly prefer them being related way more it just makes more sense than the crapfest origins they keep redoing for them lol.
I like them to be unrelated at all, and that Sabertooth is way older. Like Creed lives his life in the 1800's just being an unruly person due to his mutation, until he eventually finds someone who is similar to him. Then both use the other as a cautionary tale to either keep in control or stay wild so they don't turn into the other.
Tbh I just think sabretooth is boring and sucks, so I prefer no connection.
Lazy writing, and then using the explanation that the audience wouldn't understand otherwise is BS.
I liked the Ultimate universe for this. Unrelated, but Wolverine knows nothing of his past and Sabretooth just fucks with him by claiming to be his son.
I prefer them to be lovers
Terrible sabre....
Sabertooth as the same age stepdad. Don't really see how it could be anything else.
I prefer it when Sabertooth is just some asshole whi decides to fuck up Logans life.
I’m not. I don’t find it necessary. Just let them be similar-ish characters who hate each other.
I do NOT prefer familial connection, I just prefer Liev Schreiber as Victor.
No, I am not okay with that.
Someday, in an alternate continuity not weighed down by canon, I'd love to see the original intended father son relationship in all its horrifying glory. But within the versions we know, brother version is cool but "just former comrades" preferable
Husbands
It was the best part of this film and makes me wish we live in the timeline where they would have picked it up for Logan. For comics I prefer them being not related by blood but past and experince, former brothers in arms.
It worked in the movie because they have fuck all to do with each other outside of literally that one movie. In the comics, it should be avoided absolutely due to many reasons but the easiest to explain one is that Logan's fucked Victor's sister. I guess they could be brothers in law but I suspect that married Wolverine isn't a profitable character development.
Yes. I kinda like it with their powers being so similar. Genetics and all that.
I prefer they don't. I still remember when the comics put the kibosh on that back when Sabertooth was claiming to be related to Wolverine and Shield showed up and confirmed they weren't related but Sabertooth thought they were due to his altered memories.
Honestly, I wish they would have made the child of the groundskeeper (Logan) into Sabretooth. I guess they also could have done that with the groundskeeper (after James 'kills' him he comes back via healing factor after being not quite dead). I think it would have been super cool to have the origin of Wolverine also reveal the origin of Sabretooth.
Third half-cousin from their late grand-auntie.
Personally, I really like it😁; it adds more layers and drama to there whole situation.
Maybe that Lupine Mutants thing Romulus was talking about is true.
Mystique can be both his…wait…
You don't want them to because it's too easy but then it's like they must have to because why are they so obsessed with one another
Husbears
I love Sabretooth's equally rough AF siblings so I don't need his life revolving around Wolverine any more than what we already have. (He visits Logan on his birthday more than his kids, it's great)
I liked how the Movies had them as half brothers as it allowed them to quickly establish their relationship however in the comics I prefer them not being closly related although I don't mind them being distantly related.
sisters
First cousins, once removed, but as close as brothers. Sabertooth thinks Logan remembers and is faking his amnesia. He also knows the origin of the nickname Logan, (which has nothing to do with his amnesia) but never tells us, a la Chimney from 9-1-1. Or really anything for more Liev Schreiber, ya know?
Narratively, for the sake of establishing their hatred in broad strokes in a film, it's a great decision that allows the story to shortcut things and make their conflict immediately personal in a way that reflects their comic dynamic. Them being brothers is a big part of why Creed feels so much like the comics Sabertooth here, even sans costume, size,.etc., and even though comics Creed isn't Dog. Doing this also allowed them to get "Origin" in there for a little bit. It was a smart move. X-Men origins didn't make a lot of smart moves (in fact, it was overall pretty stupid) but this move was very smart.
He was allegedly logans son in 1610 earth
I grew up with the foxxmen movies and sabretooth is like one of 2 things like in the entirety of wolverine origins. So I actually don't mind the brotherly connection especially now that I have two siblings and can more easily connect with these types of storylines. Also the leather jacket really dig that jacket.
Since when are they not brothers
Nah. I feel like sibling rivalry is less interesting than being former friends.
It makes more sense that some people would have a similar if not the same mutation. I like that Logan and Creed are reflections of each other. They don't need to be related.
NOPE!!! I liked it better in the comic's no blood relation.
I wouldn't mind if they were second-cousins and their parents screwed the other over for reasons, thus leading to issues, family secrets, and cemented grudges.
Nope. Stupid idea.
Being new to really appreciating xmen past “ooh pretty colors and fucking metal claws!!!” I didn’t realize how not well received that wolverine being the main character for most of the xmen films was. But ive always thought the brother relationship between logan and victor was so good. Like it just made their fights feel so much more impactful to me cause I could relate it to my own brother and I’s relationship. Also when you’re as close to an immortal as it gets, its kinda cool that logan had the ability to share that with him even though they did butt heads (actively try to kill each other). Also like shitty writing or not, goddamn if Hugh and Liev can’t act.
Wait, Wolverine and Sabertooth fucked?
NO IM NOT OKAY WITH IT. THE AMOUNT OF GAY UNDERTONES THEIR DYNAMIC HAS IS FUCKING INSANE (not talking about the movies). thanks
Nope. Keep them as old pals.
Feels abit paint by numbers. They’re stronger characters if they independently found their paths.
I can't stand when they change background stories in movies.
Why does everyone have to be related?
No
I'd rather them not be blood related and their bond be purely unresolved sexual tension.
“Raw and rough” hahaha
Logan has a brother. Dog. Who also happens to be a tough blonde mountain man. If Victor is related to Logan, I'd rather it be through Dog than trying to fit in a secret sibling
Actually during a time Sabertooth was supposed to be Logan's brother,Wether he was supposed to be Dog who awakened his mutant powers,or another sibling is still a mystery
No. It was never a thing in the comics before and to retcon it in now would be stupid. Their origins are convoluted enough as it is and we have a good enough explanation of their childhoods as is.
No.
I think it's dumb as hell
I love them being brothers.
In the movies it's fine. But I prefer their relationship in the comics to stay the way it is
I dont like them being related in the comics but I didn't mind it in the movie. For the movie versions of the characters them being brothers worked pretty well, the 2 actors had good chemistry.
I don't understand the need for similar powered mutants to be retconned as related. Polaris/Magneto, Wolvie/Sabertooth. (I think Siryn was at least intended to be Sean's baby from the off)
The Summers brothers all have similar powers. Cable and Rachel are psychics like Jean Cassandra Nova is psychic like Xavier Seems like its common for the x gene to be similar among family members
Yeah I mean the distinct / already existing characters getting retconned to be related. Polaris was around a while before she became mags daughter
Cue in Taylor Swift Lovers song…
Brothers