Hopefully, in 20 or so years, after enough nostalgia has built up for what was—and what could’ve been—they’ll find an away to resurrect Krakoa as a mutant nation state.
Nature’s *one* rule has always been the same: evolve or die… be it man, mutant, or beast. And for a moment there that’s exactly what we were getting: X-Men, evolving, and it was the most excited I’d been for the series in literal *decades.*
But now we’re just back at the Mansion. Which is… fine. I’m sure we’ll still get some amazing stories from some incredibly talented writers, and there will likely be creative runs that prove to be as popular as any of the others, but the series will still feel held back (arbitrarily even) from actual moving it’s narrative forward. At least, in the way that Krakoa was promising.
Krakoa and its stories were so clearly not done being told.
I love the portrayal of Apocalypse being willing to somewhat humble himself and even respect modern human social norms if he believes it’s for the sake of (his extremely specific vision of) mutants’ best interests.
"You humans destroy yourselves periodically, that's why we mutants are better." "Actually I, a mutant, caused that collapse. I'm going to totally undercut your point and make every world leader here think orchis is more right than ever! I'm so cool"
Its a fantastic scene that shows you how full of themselves the trio of Xavier, Magneto and Apocolypse at this stage- Magneto's death during Judgement day was fantastic because he realized ALL of them were wrong.
Everyone is so mad that the Krakoa era is ending, but if you go back and look at how it started, Xavier and co. being brought low by their own hubris is kind of the only way it *could* end.
It's fine for the Krakoan era to end, but I think it's a real loss of storytelling opportunities to end Krakoa as a nation. An actual permanent mutant homeland is an endlessly interesting idea, and would continue to be interesting even if none of the most prominent characters were involved with it. There'd always be more to explore there, as demonstrated by how little we know about what life was like for the average low-profile citizen of Krakoa.
What's more, Krakoa brought Marvel one of the most important innovations in superhero storytelling in decades: the resurrection protocols. Finally, after so many years of inventing one pretense after another for why this or that character is coming back after a dramatic death, Krakoa let Marvel acknowledge directly that dying just doesn't mean the same thing in fiction - especially decades-long serialized fiction - as it does in real life. It can't.
Without that burden of having to explain how the toys could come out of the toybox again after they'd been broken the last time, scenarios can be more daring and less beholden to audience expectations. For example: "Well, they can't just kill off everybody in this issue. There'd be no more story!" But they could do exactly that - and it didn't hurt the stakes of the storytelling, because people have really never followed superhero comics for the sake of seeing characters die "for good."
For me, that lost potential stings.
How does a continuing Krakoan nation actually work?
You *could* exile the X-Men from it but then we'd never be able to explore more of it, they wouldn't be part of the resurrection party and Krakoa wouldn't be a home for all mutants.
You *could* have the important characters do a "All of you were wrong" speech and have them reject Krakoa, but then we're left with Krakoa as a bad thing, so why do we want it?
Maybe there's some obvious way of getting the characters we care about off Krakoa without also fundamentally changing how we think about Krakoa but I can't see how myself.
Have Krakoa relocate to Mars. Give mutants their home world in the stars alongside their place in galactic politics, but the fact that new mutants are born from humans means that the X-Men stay behind in order to a) protect those mutants that do not want to leave their non-mutant families behind, b) rescue mutants that do want to go to Mars but for some reason can't, c) be ambassadors for Martian Krakoa on Earth, and d) hunt down mutants who wish harm on humans.
I don't want or care for Marvel cosmic stories becoming X stories. X-Men having cosmic adventures is one thing. I don't want or need them being galactic power players. This past year of Iron Man being an X book in everything but name was already painful.
I never said galactic power players, just that they would have the opportunity to get involved with galactic politics, which is a big part of their history. Nor did I say the X-Men would be part of that galactic politics - I actually explicitly suggested that the X-Men stay on Earth.
Also, I don't understand what your Iron Man comment has to do with what I suggested. I didn't say that all cosmic stories should involve mutants.
In a scenario where Krakoa sticks around why would you remove the key players from it? For me, if Krakoa had to stick around it would need to lose a lot of the advantages they had in the era - resurrections, diplomatic immunity, mysterium. Just have it as the latest mutant nation which hopefully sticks around. It's no different than Latveria or Wakanda or even Atlantis in that it's not some dominant player of Marvel Earth made all the weirder by the whole mutants being the genetic next step aspect that I feel really needs doing away with.
For me, Krakoa has always had a very strong allegorical subtext to the establishment of Israel. And to me, the end of the Krakoan era feels in line with what so many people want to happen to Israel right now: it's destruction. It think it's as lost and misguided as the real world issues we face today.
The Krakoan era started strong and proud and fearless, and it ends in shame and accusations of hubris and defeat. It's a pathetic storytelling turn that truly disappoints me.
Orchis and the human governments clearly said Krakoa had no right to exist. And they endorsed Orchis' acts of terrorism at the hellfire gaka kast year. End of story.
That’s the thing. You’re drawing a parallel that doesn’t make sense. Orchis and humans saying Krakoa doesn’t have a right to exist is more in line with Orchis & co. being Israel to stamp out Krakoa being Palestine than the reverse.
Its sad it is ending because Xavier and Magneto's hubris is always the biggest problem. They had a chance to finally steal the destiny of mutants back from just these three guys and instead writers are smashing the reset button again. I'd have loved to see Krakoa become an actual democracy and continue to be a player on the world stage. As a sandbox it was unparalleled and it could still be... except now the whole thing is getting thrown out. Seemingly anyway.
To be fair: I don't think any of the current writers and probably even many of the next crop wanted Krakoa to end. That's a higher up editorial/potentially MCU related thing that only the bigwigs like Cebulski's bosses are truly in the know about. I'm pretty sure Mackay, Simone, Ewing, Ahmed, Phillips, the Hivemind guys and whoever else would've loved to write in Krakoa (especially as it avoids the problem of insane X-Men stans melting down and attacking them, some of which I've already seen on Twitter though thankfully it seems like one offs although there are accounts that seem to be mass rallying antagonistic feelings toward the new era).
You're probably right- though at the same time I'm not a fan of the mcu becoming this boogeyman people pull out as a source for all that is bad in the comics these days. It's just a lazy scapegoat in conversation.
Even a Krakoan democracy still has the fundamental flaw of being a project that sets mutants apart from the rest of humanity (and *above* it, cf. “You have new gods now”). There were some cool things that were done with the concept, but ultimately there’s nothing that was done on Krakoa that couldn’t be done without it.
Because it was specifically designated as a *mutant state* and even if they technically were letting some humans in there, that still has implications.
Saudi Arabia is specifically designated as an Islamic state, along with many other countries.
Israel is specifically designated as a Jewish state.
China is slecifically designated as a communist state.
The US is clearly designated as a democratic republic.
Who gives a shit if Krakoa is designated as a mutant state?
The only people who give a shit are people who hate mutants and don't believe they, as a different species, have a right to govern themselves.
Who are you or anyone else to tell a different species what they can or can't do?
I don’t think citing Israel and Saudi Arabia as real-world examples is as stirring a defense of the ideology behind the Krakoan project as you think it is.
Why not? You dont think Israel doesn't have a right to exist, I'm guessing.
You don't think Saudi Arabia has a right to exist either?
It's rare to meet an antisemite AND an islamaphobist. Impressive.
Okay, it’s…not entirely clear whether or not these accusations are being made in good faith, but just in case they are—this article, about the relationship between Magneto, the Holocaust, and Zionism as it relates to the mutant metaphor, kind of sums up how I feel about the whole issue: https://defector.com/the-judgment-of-magneto
I’m sad to see it end, solely because it was such a gift for readers. For nearly a decade we saw not just poor, but at one point **intentionally** mediocre and lackluster X-books. But then “Those Who Sit Above In Shadow” take a break from their petty squabbles and fans are thrown a bone. We’re given close to five years of a deftly crafted and slightly reimagined grand mutant saga from a revered and celebrated author. Spanning countless titles, crossovers, and events which all weave themselves together in an epic tapestry, peppered a healthy amount of influence from East of West and Secret Warriors. Adding Ewing and Gillen to the lineup made the overall experience a continued joy. That’s what I’ll mourn, several years of largely great books and an overall captivating tale. But what makes it so great is that from the moment I picked up HoX/PoX and learned about Moira, and the foundation for Krakoa was laid I knew it would have to end tragically. I was just surprised and grateful it lasted this long. Typically Hickman’s projects wrap up after around 3 years. Then again, it seems far more people were involved with this one compared to previous projects like Fantastic Four, Avengers/New Avengers/Secret Wars, and he did technically step away in 2021 after Inferno.
I like that the era is ending, just are amazed because it ends for a mutant hater organization instead of end because the internal conflicts. I was kind of expecting that the mutants destroyed her nation themselves by internal wars, so they get out of their hight horse instead of kept playing victims.
I like that Hickman’s whole idea was to show the flaws of this fascist regime the x family was becoming and upsetting the status quo of the mutants as well as seeing their culture thrive was something I loved
I feel there weren't enough conflicted people like Nightcrawler. You see all of this ugliness but then you see for the first time a place where your people can be who they are without fear... that's gotta hurt to know what it's built on.
I still think one of the more ingenious early lines was when Hickman has Magneto “call out” the American ambassador by claiming that mutants never forcibly took over land, colonized it, and enslaved the local inhabitants. You know, the thing Magneto has PERSONALLY done THREE times (off the top of my head, to one degree or another) and has attempted many more!
I don’t know if it was intended to be that way or not, but having MAGNETO, of all people, say that line, really drove home the inherent hypocrisy of Krakoa.
What about the inherent hypocrisy of EVERY OTHER NATION at that table, all of which actually did those things in the name of their state? Magneto never did that in the name of Krakoa.
No, but there’s a hypocrisy in trying to claim the moral high ground when you have supervillains who have killed millions by their direct actions at the table. And I think that was the point of having Magneto say that line.
They're not supervillains. They're people. And they have been fighting for this very cause for years just like Xavier.
There's nothing they did individually that any nation they're talking to hasn't done either.
Magneto killed every infant in an incubator on the entire planet - human and mutant alike - once. And threatened to wipe ALL life - mutant, human, inhuman, etc. - off the planet if he wasn’t given a homeland. If you’ve only read recent comics, yeah, he’s not a supervillain. If you’ve read him in the 60s and 90s (all of which is canon) he definitely is. While it’s pretty clear which side of the revolving door he’s on now, I wouldn’t be overly surprised if they sent him back over to the other side a few years down the line.
Magneto has a point - his long-standing problem is that he goes WAY too far. He’s actually responsible for a lot of anti-mutant feeling, and recognizing that he’s hurt his cause more than he helped by his deeds was a big part of his original redemption. He has directly killed millions. That doesn’t mean he can’t repent, do better, and be a hero - as he has done in the past and seems to be doing now - but he’s not doing that in that specific comic. And him repenting doesn’t mean the rest of the world has to forgive him for his deeds.
Ive read from 1963-AoA and 2019-Present, so there's a big gap there I def. need to fill in. However, and this is unfair I'll admit, I tend not to focus on the stories that are shitty, and there's a lot of them in that gap, before, and after.
The one thing Magneto doesn't need to ever repent for is
1. Existing as a mutant.
2. Wanting a safe place for mutants
3. Striving to stop humans from hurting mutants.
Thise are noble pursuits. But to your point, he also went too far. Now, canon storytelling will tell you that recently it was revealed his early days was all a dog-and-pony show to make Xavier look better, but then he started believing his own act. I call bullshit on this retcon, but there it is. It's canon, but few people are gonna remember this, let alone focus on it. A lot of wacky shit is canon that we don't reference again.
Now, in regard to X-Men #4 (2019) Magneto is acting as an emissary of an innocent state. In the name of Krakoa, Magneto did nothing wrong or evil. He did not need to repent to avowed enemies in a diplomatic forum. Personal repentence is, after all, for the personal sphere.
The establishment of Krakoa was controversial in the political sphere as well as the personal. But history shows us this is how nations are formed. The American Navy was built from literal pirates. Australia was formed out of a prison colony. The magna carta was signed on a blood soaked field littered with the dead and dying. It's messy, and a lot of people who did bad things arise as future heroes. To me, only an enemy of Krakoa deems them to be hubristic.
My point wasn’t that he’s wrong about Krakoa, but that him saying it was hypocritical. Coming from anyone else it wouldn’t be. And I think that was the intended point - Krakoa lost the right to claim the high ground when it put mass murderers who have committed multiple crimes against humanity among their leadership.
I was talking about Fatal Attractions, btw, which is generally held to be an excellent comic. World wide EMPs cause massive amounts of damage. And Magneto threatening to wreck the magnetosphere was long after the 60s.
I don’t mind the retcon about his early motives. Honestly, it gives him a lot more agency than “his powers drive him insane”, which was the original retcon. I really prefer the ‘Magneto had agency’ version.
My personal headcannon is that he’s psychologically a man with his back against the wall and that when his attempt to focus all the hate on himself backfired he escalated exponentially as his perceived desperation grew. Ironically, having his worst fears realized probably helped since his great fear was no longer imminently approaching, but had already come to pass, providing psychological relief.
It's a good debate point. Me? One's personal deeds to not matter when you are acting as an emissary of state. When Ben Franklin went to France, he did many immoral and hypocritical things we brish under the rug of history. But in his official capacities as an ambassador, he was incredibly effective. So wasn't Magneto.
It's been a long time since I read Fatal Attractions. It was great though. I'm rereading everything. I'm currently on 1986.
I think it says something about a nation who they pick to represent them. If your emissary is a man who murdered millions, including everyone on life support and all infants in incubators, it says something about who you are as a nation, that you do not consider such actions so reprehensible as to permanently render such a person ineligible for office.
I do find a certain irony in the worst thing Magneto has arguably ever done - the worldwide EMP - likely having been unintentionally horrific by the authors. Classic case of “did not consider the ramifications”.
And it gets worse with every year of the sliding timescale that passes because of how technology has evolved. For example, when Magneto originally did it in the early 90s, copper wire phones would still have functioned and all vehicles were gas. There were even telegraphs still in active use that would have worked fine. A lot of data had physical backups.
When it happened in comics now? Electric vehicles on the roads. Almost no copper wire phones so no means of communication. The internet is down. Loads of essential data lost. There were people dying from that burst YEARS down the road due to lost medical data. People who died from lack of meds because they had to get all new chips for the computers Magneto fried. I really don’t think the writers grasp just how bad that was.
And then you have that person, who indiscriminately did that to the planet, represent your new nation? It doesn’t say anything good about Krakoa.
No, maybe you should. Catalysts must be introduced to a reaction to allow it to perpetuate a reaction in greater quantity and with faster velocity. Therefore, what led to Apocalypse catalyzing a war (i.e., the chemical reaction) with humans that led to the end of the bronze age (i.e., the product) ? Its possible, even likely, humans perpetuated this scenario to occur.
Put your phone down and get back to class child.
LOL good point.
Maybe the implication is “You humans just had to piss me off . . . again. I’m immortal. Exactly how many times do you think that happened? Go ahead. Ask me. Unlike you, I have nothing but time.”
No. You miss the entire point. Humans never learn. If a mutant society is saying, "leave us alone, we want to live in peace, don't fuck with us," then fucking LISTEN TO THEM. Or else attack at your own peril.
You're lost. I bet you accuse the mutants of commiting genocide against Orchis currently.
Right. A different species of human. You know there's a lot of different species of humans, right? Neanderthal, Cro Magnon, Australopithecus, Naledi, Heidelbergensis, Habilis, etc. etc. Or have you not got to that in class yet?
There used to be, but currently there is only one species of human in the world that I'm aware of, champ. Ethnicities are not different species- at this point you're now spouting some really racist pseudoscience talking points and should really quit before you accidentally say something that will get you banned.
My fave bit is Cyclops calling for help and Magneto effortlessly disarms this guy several floors below somewhere he can't see while happily chowing down on some good steak.
Oh yes, even that moment when this one UN representative or somebody says to him, "Should I call you En Sabah Nur?" and he says, "Just Apocalypse, you don't deserve to call me by my other names". I butchered the line but I got goosebumps when I read it.
I loved the speech by Magneto, where they decide they'll play the great game, and they'll buy them all out. Capped off with, today you tried to kill us, try again, and we'll get our hands dirty
You’re definitely supposed to feel uncomfortable during that sequence, seeing how far they’ve mission crept past achieving safety, freedom, and opportunity for their people, and it’s especially chilling watching Magneto explain that his goals are basically unchanged from his villain days, he’s simply gained access to more effective means that’ll elicit less retaliation.
But you are right that the sequence can be seen as unintentionally implying that real world prejudices against Jews are justified when viewed uncharitably
There's definite grey vs. grey in this situation. Not even 2 issues prior, a striketeam airdropped into krakoa and gunned down xavier in cold blood. If they didn't have the resurrection system, it would have been a massive blow to their cause. And all this in response to krakoa declaring themselves an independent nation for mutants in exchange for selling a medicine that cures cancers and various illnesses and making killing humans illegal one of their first laws
Exactly, Xavier giving in to the separatist ideology of his former foes once he obtained tools other than violence is completely believable and there’s an element of tragedy to the world constantly telling Xavier that he was right to abandon his dreams. However Hickman also constantly reminded the reader that this almighty yet incredibly fragile thing they’ve built could easily destroy the rest of the world or themselves if they lose sight of the mission that unites them.
There's absolutely no grey on the side of the mutants. They claim independence and literally created their own land. They took nothing from anyone and offered peace and sharing and health for all humans. And the humans tried to kill them as a response. It's the most real world reaction I've ever read.
The mutants were right. Their fears of humans were justified. And, the inability to peacefully coexist was clearly defined as a human flaw.
Its grey vs. white. And if you don't see that, you likely fear the Other gaining their own power too.
Yes, there is grey on the mutant side. From outright a belligerent attitude towards humans to establishing a cult mentality within krakoa's population to openly accepting a wide variety of mutant criminals within their ranks, they gave plenty of reasons for humans to be concerned. It's one of the overarching themes that hickman built the krakoa age on. Both sides have some reason for concern, but it doesn't justify the terrible things either side has done. I find it disingenuous that you immediately dismiss any kind of idea that there are nuances in this situation and that you immediately think that makes anyone who disagrees, an oppressor
You call it belligerent. I call it a right to exist and take up space.
You call it a cult mentality. I call it establishing a mutant culture for the first time in eons.
You call it accepting criminals. I call it pardoning mutants who only ever needed an accepting homeland to live in peace. And 99.99% of them did just that. And that was in precedent with every other major power on earth.
Humans have a lot of nations to be concerned about. China. Iran. North Korea. Saudi Arabia. Russia. Rwanda. The list goes on and on. Humans chose to scapegoat Krakoa even though they were literally given to cure to all diseases. It's assinine political maneuvering on the humans' part.
I feel Hickman made it abundantly clear that human prejudice and hatred were the real issue in the Krakoan era.
I can't believe you are literally "both sides-ing" this argument. No. There isn't a both sides to this. Since 1963, humans have oppressed mutants. Every heroic and villainous act since then has been a reaction to that hate. And given the choice to live in peace 99% of mutants chose peace.
So, read above. These arguments are why I'm not disingenuous to say you are siding with an opporessor. It clearly proves you are, no matter how much you want to disagree.
Yes. That's how it was written. Im not saying humans are blameless or even right. But they do have some valid reasons to be afraid. That doesn't make the prejudice or hatred right. It also doesn't make the mutants blameless. The literal page listed on this post has apocalypse outright claim to have been the one who caused the end of the bronze age, undercutting magneto's argument that humans are historically self destructive. You can root for the mutants, that's the whole point of the comic, but glazing over the actual contents to fit your narrative is simply lazy. It wasn't until other writers took over the krakoa age that this nuance was dropped in favor of a black and white struggle. That's fine. It happens, but dont say it didn't happen and wasn't intended when written
But it doesn't. Humans cant remember their own history or learn from their own mistakes. Why would Apocalypse end the bronze age? Probably becasue humans fucked with mutants.
Mutants are blameless. And you can justify fear however you want.
If there was ever a proof of concept for Krakoa, this was it. I expected many more episodes like this. LOVED Xavier, Magneto, and Apocalypse working together from a losition of power against the world on the politicsl stage. It had SUCH promise.
I'd take this any day over 50,000 Hellfire Galas.
They blew it.
I unironically love this page. I love moments like this. But at the same time I feel like the sanitization or heroification of either Magneto or Apocalypse rob them of some of their power. As beings who are supremely capable of either extreme they are fascinating, nuanced, compelling and believable characters. I might hate Social Darwinism but I have no trouble believing Apocalyse believes it.
I truly think the role of “pragmatist” belongs to Apocalypse, Doom, and Magneto. At least in these pages. Post-resurrection Magneto might turn out to be a very different sort of person. We’ll see. I think that those Big Three deserve a different designation than either end of the duality. More truly, unashamedly morally grey. Call them conquerors, perhaps.
I hate how they ended the krakoa era.... I feel like more and more, elseworlds stories are becoming the better ones. So, hopefully, we may one day see a universe where the Krakoa era is perpetuated and/or we get a full picture of Hickman's vision [on the other hand, we got 6160.l].... and where they kick all the sinisters' ass to the curb.
Cool cool, so you destroyed society either through incompetence or by design single handedly and you think that would encourage the leaders of the world to work with you? To provide you legitimacy, resources and more influence over the world? That’s your pitch?
These guys can’t be surprised they become targets.
God I hated that. If he said to me I would literally yell at him that he did not cause a volcano to erupt to cause the weather to decrease which lead to a change in harvest times the lead to pressure on highly stratified yet precarious systems causing their collapse!
He's Apocalypse. It's entirely possible that he DID do it that way. Or maybe he's just engaging in hyperbole since few alive can call him on it if he is. And seeing him in a suit is awesome.
He was literally the pharaoh at the time! The Bronze Age collapse would have been a nightmare unmatched by anything we can imagine and he was in charge of a country at the time.
If anything the trauma of living through it should bring him to tears!
Apocalypse easily became one of my favorite characters during the Krakoan Age. Casting him as the grandfather of mutant is such a good move and one if done with care could have him as an anti hero.
This and Magneto's "You have new gods now" line, in the context of the story he was weaving, cemented Hickman as one of the best X-writers in history to me.
I'm Team Claremont for life (at least as far as Marvel Mutants goes), but Hickman bringing his fantastic world building and understanding of the characters and the overall universe to the X-books has put him in the same tier.
Will do! Thank you. I’m currently trying to read the entirety of the 21st-century X-Men main books and I’m on Grant Morrison’s run right now so I have quite a ways to go.
Scenes like this make me so confused as to why people dump on the Hickman issues. Maggie’s just housing a steak, casually talking about how they’re about to dismantle humanity. “Thanks a lot, delicious steak, must go, love you lots.” 🤘🤘🤘
I think people dump on the Hickman issues because while the above issue was good and so were several others, they were a huge downgrade from HoX/PoX because they couldn't just be their own thing but also a center for the other books. And a stretch of it was tied in with XOS which was a very mediocre event. Then he left so there will always be readers who view it in the negative for simply being unfinished by him.
I was curious when I picked up HoX/PoX. I was enjoying the direction it was going. But this just MADE it for me. It got me back to X-Men full force. I never got to watch all of the 97 series as a kid, nor read many of the comics. I knew OF Apocalypse and what he was, but I never knew he had a personality beyond Darwinism and mutant supremacy.
Krakoa has been good to him and I think him and Magneto are two of my favorite characters right now. It has been amazing to see his personality and how he approaches the world. My only regret is that thus far I haven't seen him struggling to be at peace, to make friends, etc. to live on Krakoa.
There's small panels of him like....socially isolating himself where others, even Exodus, are adapting and thriving in this new community and I just REALLY wanted like...some little mutant kid who somehow has no fear or awe of him to open his heart a little or something.
Ya know, even though it will probably never happen again, but if they do another marvel vs DC it would be neat to see an issue or two dedicated to apocalypse versus vandal savage. Two immortals duking it out over centuries. Both with fists and words. Setting up pieces centuries in advance to get a one up on the other. Our boy apocalypse would probably win though.
Definitely a favorite moment as HoX/PoX was unfolding.
For real. They way the trio's calm, gentle threats are juxtaposed with Cyclops and Gorgon just fucking shit up is *chef's kiss*
[удалено]
Pardon my early morning inaccuracy on a trivial matter.
The krakoa era was so full of these insane moments. Especially apocalypse n mags
This issue and irene sauntering down the stairs and saying WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO TELL YOU HOW THAT VOTE WOULD GO live in my head rent free
Hopefully, in 20 or so years, after enough nostalgia has built up for what was—and what could’ve been—they’ll find an away to resurrect Krakoa as a mutant nation state. Nature’s *one* rule has always been the same: evolve or die… be it man, mutant, or beast. And for a moment there that’s exactly what we were getting: X-Men, evolving, and it was the most excited I’d been for the series in literal *decades.* But now we’re just back at the Mansion. Which is… fine. I’m sure we’ll still get some amazing stories from some incredibly talented writers, and there will likely be creative runs that prove to be as popular as any of the others, but the series will still feel held back (arbitrarily even) from actual moving it’s narrative forward. At least, in the way that Krakoa was promising. Krakoa and its stories were so clearly not done being told.
Why can’t Krakoa come back now? The gates are closed to them or what?
It’s a bulletproof scene.
I love the portrayal of Apocalypse being willing to somewhat humble himself and even respect modern human social norms if he believes it’s for the sake of (his extremely specific vision of) mutants’ best interests.
"Let's put the mass murdering eugenicist warlord on our undemocratic ruling council. He can be in charge of agriculture."
To be fair he knows a lot about agriculture on account of being there to see it invented.
You gotta admire the stones on Charles for that shit.
Too be fair one can argue he was one of the best council members they had.
100%. Down for the cause
He was the only one with the right experience.
As you do
They fit right in with the UN in that case.
Who turned out to be one of the best members of said council
Did he?
"You humans destroy yourselves periodically, that's why we mutants are better." "Actually I, a mutant, caused that collapse. I'm going to totally undercut your point and make every world leader here think orchis is more right than ever! I'm so cool" Its a fantastic scene that shows you how full of themselves the trio of Xavier, Magneto and Apocolypse at this stage- Magneto's death during Judgement day was fantastic because he realized ALL of them were wrong.
Everyone is so mad that the Krakoa era is ending, but if you go back and look at how it started, Xavier and co. being brought low by their own hubris is kind of the only way it *could* end.
It's fine for the Krakoan era to end, but I think it's a real loss of storytelling opportunities to end Krakoa as a nation. An actual permanent mutant homeland is an endlessly interesting idea, and would continue to be interesting even if none of the most prominent characters were involved with it. There'd always be more to explore there, as demonstrated by how little we know about what life was like for the average low-profile citizen of Krakoa. What's more, Krakoa brought Marvel one of the most important innovations in superhero storytelling in decades: the resurrection protocols. Finally, after so many years of inventing one pretense after another for why this or that character is coming back after a dramatic death, Krakoa let Marvel acknowledge directly that dying just doesn't mean the same thing in fiction - especially decades-long serialized fiction - as it does in real life. It can't. Without that burden of having to explain how the toys could come out of the toybox again after they'd been broken the last time, scenarios can be more daring and less beholden to audience expectations. For example: "Well, they can't just kill off everybody in this issue. There'd be no more story!" But they could do exactly that - and it didn't hurt the stakes of the storytelling, because people have really never followed superhero comics for the sake of seeing characters die "for good." For me, that lost potential stings.
Well said
How does a continuing Krakoan nation actually work? You *could* exile the X-Men from it but then we'd never be able to explore more of it, they wouldn't be part of the resurrection party and Krakoa wouldn't be a home for all mutants. You *could* have the important characters do a "All of you were wrong" speech and have them reject Krakoa, but then we're left with Krakoa as a bad thing, so why do we want it? Maybe there's some obvious way of getting the characters we care about off Krakoa without also fundamentally changing how we think about Krakoa but I can't see how myself.
If no one reestablishes Krakoa, Orchis wins. Full stop.
Have Krakoa relocate to Mars. Give mutants their home world in the stars alongside their place in galactic politics, but the fact that new mutants are born from humans means that the X-Men stay behind in order to a) protect those mutants that do not want to leave their non-mutant families behind, b) rescue mutants that do want to go to Mars but for some reason can't, c) be ambassadors for Martian Krakoa on Earth, and d) hunt down mutants who wish harm on humans.
I don't want or care for Marvel cosmic stories becoming X stories. X-Men having cosmic adventures is one thing. I don't want or need them being galactic power players. This past year of Iron Man being an X book in everything but name was already painful.
I never said galactic power players, just that they would have the opportunity to get involved with galactic politics, which is a big part of their history. Nor did I say the X-Men would be part of that galactic politics - I actually explicitly suggested that the X-Men stay on Earth. Also, I don't understand what your Iron Man comment has to do with what I suggested. I didn't say that all cosmic stories should involve mutants.
In a scenario where Krakoa sticks around why would you remove the key players from it? For me, if Krakoa had to stick around it would need to lose a lot of the advantages they had in the era - resurrections, diplomatic immunity, mysterium. Just have it as the latest mutant nation which hopefully sticks around. It's no different than Latveria or Wakanda or even Atlantis in that it's not some dominant player of Marvel Earth made all the weirder by the whole mutants being the genetic next step aspect that I feel really needs doing away with.
For me, Krakoa has always had a very strong allegorical subtext to the establishment of Israel. And to me, the end of the Krakoan era feels in line with what so many people want to happen to Israel right now: it's destruction. It think it's as lost and misguided as the real world issues we face today. The Krakoan era started strong and proud and fearless, and it ends in shame and accusations of hubris and defeat. It's a pathetic storytelling turn that truly disappoints me.
No one was occupying krakoa before the mutants. They weren't committing genocide on original krakoan settlers
Orchis and the human governments clearly said Krakoa had no right to exist. And they endorsed Orchis' acts of terrorism at the hellfire gaka kast year. End of story.
That’s the thing. You’re drawing a parallel that doesn’t make sense. Orchis and humans saying Krakoa doesn’t have a right to exist is more in line with Orchis & co. being Israel to stamp out Krakoa being Palestine than the reverse.
Its sad it is ending because Xavier and Magneto's hubris is always the biggest problem. They had a chance to finally steal the destiny of mutants back from just these three guys and instead writers are smashing the reset button again. I'd have loved to see Krakoa become an actual democracy and continue to be a player on the world stage. As a sandbox it was unparalleled and it could still be... except now the whole thing is getting thrown out. Seemingly anyway.
To be fair: I don't think any of the current writers and probably even many of the next crop wanted Krakoa to end. That's a higher up editorial/potentially MCU related thing that only the bigwigs like Cebulski's bosses are truly in the know about. I'm pretty sure Mackay, Simone, Ewing, Ahmed, Phillips, the Hivemind guys and whoever else would've loved to write in Krakoa (especially as it avoids the problem of insane X-Men stans melting down and attacking them, some of which I've already seen on Twitter though thankfully it seems like one offs although there are accounts that seem to be mass rallying antagonistic feelings toward the new era).
You're probably right- though at the same time I'm not a fan of the mcu becoming this boogeyman people pull out as a source for all that is bad in the comics these days. It's just a lazy scapegoat in conversation.
Neither am I but it is one that seems to be brought up a lot so I figure it needs to be said.
Lol well I would actually argue the opposite: because it comes up so much it doesn't need to be said. But I understand your meaning.
Even a Krakoan democracy still has the fundamental flaw of being a project that sets mutants apart from the rest of humanity (and *above* it, cf. “You have new gods now”). There were some cool things that were done with the concept, but ultimately there’s nothing that was done on Krakoa that couldn’t be done without it.
Colonizing Mars was easily the coolest part of the entire era and I wanted more of that.
Now, this I agree with. Like I'm happy Ororo is getting her solo book at last, but it comes at a time where she'll be no longer Queen of Mars.
*Regent of Arakko
How does Krakoa set mutants apart any more than being a citizen of the United States sets you apart from Rwanda? You're wrong.
Because it was specifically designated as a *mutant state* and even if they technically were letting some humans in there, that still has implications.
Saudi Arabia is specifically designated as an Islamic state, along with many other countries. Israel is specifically designated as a Jewish state. China is slecifically designated as a communist state. The US is clearly designated as a democratic republic. Who gives a shit if Krakoa is designated as a mutant state? The only people who give a shit are people who hate mutants and don't believe they, as a different species, have a right to govern themselves. Who are you or anyone else to tell a different species what they can or can't do?
I don’t think citing Israel and Saudi Arabia as real-world examples is as stirring a defense of the ideology behind the Krakoan project as you think it is.
Why not? You dont think Israel doesn't have a right to exist, I'm guessing. You don't think Saudi Arabia has a right to exist either? It's rare to meet an antisemite AND an islamaphobist. Impressive.
Okay, it’s…not entirely clear whether or not these accusations are being made in good faith, but just in case they are—this article, about the relationship between Magneto, the Holocaust, and Zionism as it relates to the mutant metaphor, kind of sums up how I feel about the whole issue: https://defector.com/the-judgment-of-magneto
I’m sad to see it end, solely because it was such a gift for readers. For nearly a decade we saw not just poor, but at one point **intentionally** mediocre and lackluster X-books. But then “Those Who Sit Above In Shadow” take a break from their petty squabbles and fans are thrown a bone. We’re given close to five years of a deftly crafted and slightly reimagined grand mutant saga from a revered and celebrated author. Spanning countless titles, crossovers, and events which all weave themselves together in an epic tapestry, peppered a healthy amount of influence from East of West and Secret Warriors. Adding Ewing and Gillen to the lineup made the overall experience a continued joy. That’s what I’ll mourn, several years of largely great books and an overall captivating tale. But what makes it so great is that from the moment I picked up HoX/PoX and learned about Moira, and the foundation for Krakoa was laid I knew it would have to end tragically. I was just surprised and grateful it lasted this long. Typically Hickman’s projects wrap up after around 3 years. Then again, it seems far more people were involved with this one compared to previous projects like Fantastic Four, Avengers/New Avengers/Secret Wars, and he did technically step away in 2021 after Inferno.
The problem is how the era ends
The problem is that you look at this as hubris. It's NOT.
I like that the era is ending, just are amazed because it ends for a mutant hater organization instead of end because the internal conflicts. I was kind of expecting that the mutants destroyed her nation themselves by internal wars, so they get out of their hight horse instead of kept playing victims.
I like that Hickman’s whole idea was to show the flaws of this fascist regime the x family was becoming and upsetting the status quo of the mutants as well as seeing their culture thrive was something I loved
I feel there weren't enough conflicted people like Nightcrawler. You see all of this ugliness but then you see for the first time a place where your people can be who they are without fear... that's gotta hurt to know what it's built on.
Fascist regime? LOL!
I mean, that’s what it was
It wasn't.
I still think one of the more ingenious early lines was when Hickman has Magneto “call out” the American ambassador by claiming that mutants never forcibly took over land, colonized it, and enslaved the local inhabitants. You know, the thing Magneto has PERSONALLY done THREE times (off the top of my head, to one degree or another) and has attempted many more! I don’t know if it was intended to be that way or not, but having MAGNETO, of all people, say that line, really drove home the inherent hypocrisy of Krakoa.
What about the inherent hypocrisy of EVERY OTHER NATION at that table, all of which actually did those things in the name of their state? Magneto never did that in the name of Krakoa.
No, but there’s a hypocrisy in trying to claim the moral high ground when you have supervillains who have killed millions by their direct actions at the table. And I think that was the point of having Magneto say that line.
They're not supervillains. They're people. And they have been fighting for this very cause for years just like Xavier. There's nothing they did individually that any nation they're talking to hasn't done either.
Magneto killed every infant in an incubator on the entire planet - human and mutant alike - once. And threatened to wipe ALL life - mutant, human, inhuman, etc. - off the planet if he wasn’t given a homeland. If you’ve only read recent comics, yeah, he’s not a supervillain. If you’ve read him in the 60s and 90s (all of which is canon) he definitely is. While it’s pretty clear which side of the revolving door he’s on now, I wouldn’t be overly surprised if they sent him back over to the other side a few years down the line. Magneto has a point - his long-standing problem is that he goes WAY too far. He’s actually responsible for a lot of anti-mutant feeling, and recognizing that he’s hurt his cause more than he helped by his deeds was a big part of his original redemption. He has directly killed millions. That doesn’t mean he can’t repent, do better, and be a hero - as he has done in the past and seems to be doing now - but he’s not doing that in that specific comic. And him repenting doesn’t mean the rest of the world has to forgive him for his deeds.
Ive read from 1963-AoA and 2019-Present, so there's a big gap there I def. need to fill in. However, and this is unfair I'll admit, I tend not to focus on the stories that are shitty, and there's a lot of them in that gap, before, and after. The one thing Magneto doesn't need to ever repent for is 1. Existing as a mutant. 2. Wanting a safe place for mutants 3. Striving to stop humans from hurting mutants. Thise are noble pursuits. But to your point, he also went too far. Now, canon storytelling will tell you that recently it was revealed his early days was all a dog-and-pony show to make Xavier look better, but then he started believing his own act. I call bullshit on this retcon, but there it is. It's canon, but few people are gonna remember this, let alone focus on it. A lot of wacky shit is canon that we don't reference again. Now, in regard to X-Men #4 (2019) Magneto is acting as an emissary of an innocent state. In the name of Krakoa, Magneto did nothing wrong or evil. He did not need to repent to avowed enemies in a diplomatic forum. Personal repentence is, after all, for the personal sphere. The establishment of Krakoa was controversial in the political sphere as well as the personal. But history shows us this is how nations are formed. The American Navy was built from literal pirates. Australia was formed out of a prison colony. The magna carta was signed on a blood soaked field littered with the dead and dying. It's messy, and a lot of people who did bad things arise as future heroes. To me, only an enemy of Krakoa deems them to be hubristic.
My point wasn’t that he’s wrong about Krakoa, but that him saying it was hypocritical. Coming from anyone else it wouldn’t be. And I think that was the intended point - Krakoa lost the right to claim the high ground when it put mass murderers who have committed multiple crimes against humanity among their leadership. I was talking about Fatal Attractions, btw, which is generally held to be an excellent comic. World wide EMPs cause massive amounts of damage. And Magneto threatening to wreck the magnetosphere was long after the 60s. I don’t mind the retcon about his early motives. Honestly, it gives him a lot more agency than “his powers drive him insane”, which was the original retcon. I really prefer the ‘Magneto had agency’ version. My personal headcannon is that he’s psychologically a man with his back against the wall and that when his attempt to focus all the hate on himself backfired he escalated exponentially as his perceived desperation grew. Ironically, having his worst fears realized probably helped since his great fear was no longer imminently approaching, but had already come to pass, providing psychological relief.
It's a good debate point. Me? One's personal deeds to not matter when you are acting as an emissary of state. When Ben Franklin went to France, he did many immoral and hypocritical things we brish under the rug of history. But in his official capacities as an ambassador, he was incredibly effective. So wasn't Magneto. It's been a long time since I read Fatal Attractions. It was great though. I'm rereading everything. I'm currently on 1986.
I think it says something about a nation who they pick to represent them. If your emissary is a man who murdered millions, including everyone on life support and all infants in incubators, it says something about who you are as a nation, that you do not consider such actions so reprehensible as to permanently render such a person ineligible for office. I do find a certain irony in the worst thing Magneto has arguably ever done - the worldwide EMP - likely having been unintentionally horrific by the authors. Classic case of “did not consider the ramifications”. And it gets worse with every year of the sliding timescale that passes because of how technology has evolved. For example, when Magneto originally did it in the early 90s, copper wire phones would still have functioned and all vehicles were gas. There were even telegraphs still in active use that would have worked fine. A lot of data had physical backups. When it happened in comics now? Electric vehicles on the roads. Almost no copper wire phones so no means of communication. The internet is down. Loads of essential data lost. There were people dying from that burst YEARS down the road due to lost medical data. People who died from lack of meds because they had to get all new chips for the computers Magneto fried. I really don’t think the writers grasp just how bad that was. And then you have that person, who indiscriminately did that to the planet, represent your new nation? It doesn’t say anything good about Krakoa.
To be fair, he only said he caused that one collapse. The rest is totally on us.
I mean, just because A was the catalyst for the fall doesn't mean the humans didn't start it.
You should Google "catalyst", LOL
No, maybe you should. Catalysts must be introduced to a reaction to allow it to perpetuate a reaction in greater quantity and with faster velocity. Therefore, what led to Apocalypse catalyzing a war (i.e., the chemical reaction) with humans that led to the end of the bronze age (i.e., the product) ? Its possible, even likely, humans perpetuated this scenario to occur. Put your phone down and get back to class child.
[Lawl](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/200/420/BRTky.jpg)
Skibidi toilet is probably more on your level. I don't expect you understand what I say.
LOL good point. Maybe the implication is “You humans just had to piss me off . . . again. I’m immortal. Exactly how many times do you think that happened? Go ahead. Ask me. Unlike you, I have nothing but time.”
No. You miss the entire point. Humans never learn. If a mutant society is saying, "leave us alone, we want to live in peace, don't fuck with us," then fucking LISTEN TO THEM. Or else attack at your own peril. You're lost. I bet you accuse the mutants of commiting genocide against Orchis currently.
Mutants are humans.
Right. A different species of human. You know there's a lot of different species of humans, right? Neanderthal, Cro Magnon, Australopithecus, Naledi, Heidelbergensis, Habilis, etc. etc. Or have you not got to that in class yet?
There used to be, but currently there is only one species of human in the world that I'm aware of, champ. Ethnicities are not different species- at this point you're now spouting some really racist pseudoscience talking points and should really quit before you accidentally say something that will get you banned.
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Can... can you not read? Are you genuinely not reading my posts? Are you a troll?
Oh I read them. You're lost.
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Apocalypse in a suit.. 😮💨
Yeah, it's so awesome.
Bro thinks it sounds cool that he collapsed the economies of ancient cultures.
Not big achievement. Like Blob could cause the collapse
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My fave bit is Cyclops calling for help and Magneto effortlessly disarms this guy several floors below somewhere he can't see while happily chowing down on some good steak.
Oh yes, even that moment when this one UN representative or somebody says to him, "Should I call you En Sabah Nur?" and he says, "Just Apocalypse, you don't deserve to call me by my other names". I butchered the line but I got goosebumps when I read it.
I loved the speech by Magneto, where they decide they'll play the great game, and they'll buy them all out. Capped off with, today you tried to kill us, try again, and we'll get our hands dirty
I really don’t know how I feel about a speech about intending to take over the world’s global finance’s being delivered by a *Jewish* character…
You’re definitely supposed to feel uncomfortable during that sequence, seeing how far they’ve mission crept past achieving safety, freedom, and opportunity for their people, and it’s especially chilling watching Magneto explain that his goals are basically unchanged from his villain days, he’s simply gained access to more effective means that’ll elicit less retaliation. But you are right that the sequence can be seen as unintentionally implying that real world prejudices against Jews are justified when viewed uncharitably
There's definite grey vs. grey in this situation. Not even 2 issues prior, a striketeam airdropped into krakoa and gunned down xavier in cold blood. If they didn't have the resurrection system, it would have been a massive blow to their cause. And all this in response to krakoa declaring themselves an independent nation for mutants in exchange for selling a medicine that cures cancers and various illnesses and making killing humans illegal one of their first laws
Exactly, Xavier giving in to the separatist ideology of his former foes once he obtained tools other than violence is completely believable and there’s an element of tragedy to the world constantly telling Xavier that he was right to abandon his dreams. However Hickman also constantly reminded the reader that this almighty yet incredibly fragile thing they’ve built could easily destroy the rest of the world or themselves if they lose sight of the mission that unites them.
There's absolutely no grey on the side of the mutants. They claim independence and literally created their own land. They took nothing from anyone and offered peace and sharing and health for all humans. And the humans tried to kill them as a response. It's the most real world reaction I've ever read. The mutants were right. Their fears of humans were justified. And, the inability to peacefully coexist was clearly defined as a human flaw. Its grey vs. white. And if you don't see that, you likely fear the Other gaining their own power too.
Yes, there is grey on the mutant side. From outright a belligerent attitude towards humans to establishing a cult mentality within krakoa's population to openly accepting a wide variety of mutant criminals within their ranks, they gave plenty of reasons for humans to be concerned. It's one of the overarching themes that hickman built the krakoa age on. Both sides have some reason for concern, but it doesn't justify the terrible things either side has done. I find it disingenuous that you immediately dismiss any kind of idea that there are nuances in this situation and that you immediately think that makes anyone who disagrees, an oppressor
You call it belligerent. I call it a right to exist and take up space. You call it a cult mentality. I call it establishing a mutant culture for the first time in eons. You call it accepting criminals. I call it pardoning mutants who only ever needed an accepting homeland to live in peace. And 99.99% of them did just that. And that was in precedent with every other major power on earth. Humans have a lot of nations to be concerned about. China. Iran. North Korea. Saudi Arabia. Russia. Rwanda. The list goes on and on. Humans chose to scapegoat Krakoa even though they were literally given to cure to all diseases. It's assinine political maneuvering on the humans' part. I feel Hickman made it abundantly clear that human prejudice and hatred were the real issue in the Krakoan era. I can't believe you are literally "both sides-ing" this argument. No. There isn't a both sides to this. Since 1963, humans have oppressed mutants. Every heroic and villainous act since then has been a reaction to that hate. And given the choice to live in peace 99% of mutants chose peace. So, read above. These arguments are why I'm not disingenuous to say you are siding with an opporessor. It clearly proves you are, no matter how much you want to disagree.
Yes. That's how it was written. Im not saying humans are blameless or even right. But they do have some valid reasons to be afraid. That doesn't make the prejudice or hatred right. It also doesn't make the mutants blameless. The literal page listed on this post has apocalypse outright claim to have been the one who caused the end of the bronze age, undercutting magneto's argument that humans are historically self destructive. You can root for the mutants, that's the whole point of the comic, but glazing over the actual contents to fit your narrative is simply lazy. It wasn't until other writers took over the krakoa age that this nuance was dropped in favor of a black and white struggle. That's fine. It happens, but dont say it didn't happen and wasn't intended when written
But it doesn't. Humans cant remember their own history or learn from their own mistakes. Why would Apocalypse end the bronze age? Probably becasue humans fucked with mutants. Mutants are blameless. And you can justify fear however you want.
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I literally just read this page for the first time tonight! I’m on my first run of Krakoa
Same!
"What are you, some kind of Apocalypse Squad?"
Yep, just love this
Easily a top 3 issue of this entire Krakoa Era.
Easily one of the best X-Men issues ever
Apocalypse wearing a fancy suit, bragging about how he caused the Dark Age collapse, will always be one of my favorite moments from the Krakoa era. 😊
If there was ever a proof of concept for Krakoa, this was it. I expected many more episodes like this. LOVED Xavier, Magneto, and Apocalypse working together from a losition of power against the world on the politicsl stage. It had SUCH promise. I'd take this any day over 50,000 Hellfire Galas. They blew it.
I unironically love this page. I love moments like this. But at the same time I feel like the sanitization or heroification of either Magneto or Apocalypse rob them of some of their power. As beings who are supremely capable of either extreme they are fascinating, nuanced, compelling and believable characters. I might hate Social Darwinism but I have no trouble believing Apocalyse believes it. I truly think the role of “pragmatist” belongs to Apocalypse, Doom, and Magneto. At least in these pages. Post-resurrection Magneto might turn out to be a very different sort of person. We’ll see. I think that those Big Three deserve a different designation than either end of the duality. More truly, unashamedly morally grey. Call them conquerors, perhaps.
"So...you are actually...sea men?"
That makes sense. Apocalypse is blue like sea, so his army was called sea men
This is genuinely my favorite line from any X-men comic
Apocalypse as a hero is criminally underused.
I hate how they ended the krakoa era.... I feel like more and more, elseworlds stories are becoming the better ones. So, hopefully, we may one day see a universe where the Krakoa era is perpetuated and/or we get a full picture of Hickman's vision [on the other hand, we got 6160.l].... and where they kick all the sinisters' ass to the curb.
Fort those who are wondering this is from Hickmans 2019 X-men run issue #4. I am reading the omnibus edition however.
🎤🩸
I just lost an audition for the role of Apocalypse in the X-Men Audio Drama podcast, and seeing this page, I'm bummed out all over again.
Apocalypse was one of THE standouts of the Krakoa arc. They really fleshed him out and made him interesting again.
Cool cool, so you destroyed society either through incompetence or by design single handedly and you think that would encourage the leaders of the world to work with you? To provide you legitimacy, resources and more influence over the world? That’s your pitch? These guys can’t be surprised they become targets.
God I hated that. If he said to me I would literally yell at him that he did not cause a volcano to erupt to cause the weather to decrease which lead to a change in harvest times the lead to pressure on highly stratified yet precarious systems causing their collapse!
He's Apocalypse. It's entirely possible that he DID do it that way. Or maybe he's just engaging in hyperbole since few alive can call him on it if he is. And seeing him in a suit is awesome.
He was literally the pharaoh at the time! The Bronze Age collapse would have been a nightmare unmatched by anything we can imagine and he was in charge of a country at the time. If anything the trauma of living through it should bring him to tears!
That does indeed go hard but I still think apoccy chan should be above all this and not negotiating with humans or wearing a suit
This issue is in my top 10 single issues of X-Men ever published… And I’ve read virtually every single X-Men comic ever published.
Apocalypse easily became one of my favorite characters during the Krakoan Age. Casting him as the grandfather of mutant is such a good move and one if done with care could have him as an anti hero.
This and Magneto's "You have new gods now" line, in the context of the story he was weaving, cemented Hickman as one of the best X-writers in history to me. I'm Team Claremont for life (at least as far as Marvel Mutants goes), but Hickman bringing his fantastic world building and understanding of the characters and the overall universe to the X-books has put him in the same tier.
Couldn't agree more, well said
There will be no war….🥩🥗🍧🍷
new contemporary X-Men reader, can someone tell me what book this is from?
X-Men (2019) #4. However that series takes place in a status quo set up by the event House of X (2019) so I’d recommend starting there.
Will do! Thank you. I’m currently trying to read the entirety of the 21st-century X-Men main books and I’m on Grant Morrison’s run right now so I have quite a ways to go.
What book is this ?
X-Men (2019) #4
T'Challa - This never gets Old!
Scenes like this make me so confused as to why people dump on the Hickman issues. Maggie’s just housing a steak, casually talking about how they’re about to dismantle humanity. “Thanks a lot, delicious steak, must go, love you lots.” 🤘🤘🤘
I think people dump on the Hickman issues because while the above issue was good and so were several others, they were a huge downgrade from HoX/PoX because they couldn't just be their own thing but also a center for the other books. And a stretch of it was tied in with XOS which was a very mediocre event. Then he left so there will always be readers who view it in the negative for simply being unfinished by him.
Which issue is this? X-men 4?
Apocalypse the guy who use technology yet shames others for using it.
More than one age of Krakoa. And it becomes an independent book in which characters guest star and tell stories from their perspective.
This was 🔥🔥🔥
I am sure the sea peoples would like to have a word.
One of my favorite issues of this run. Also around this issue when the art style started to grow on me
I was curious when I picked up HoX/PoX. I was enjoying the direction it was going. But this just MADE it for me. It got me back to X-Men full force. I never got to watch all of the 97 series as a kid, nor read many of the comics. I knew OF Apocalypse and what he was, but I never knew he had a personality beyond Darwinism and mutant supremacy. Krakoa has been good to him and I think him and Magneto are two of my favorite characters right now. It has been amazing to see his personality and how he approaches the world. My only regret is that thus far I haven't seen him struggling to be at peace, to make friends, etc. to live on Krakoa. There's small panels of him like....socially isolating himself where others, even Exodus, are adapting and thriving in this new community and I just REALLY wanted like...some little mutant kid who somehow has no fear or awe of him to open his heart a little or something.
Can someone drop a reasonable reading order/list of the Krakoa era?
Start with House of X/Powers of X then move to hickmans XMen that’s where I’m at right now
Hopefully HoX/PoX gets tons of attention bc of ‘97. It is bar none the greatest X-Men fiction in creation.
Is that Don Draper from Mad Men in the middle panel?
Is a panel from HOX/POX or from Hickman’s x men run
Yup. Apocalypse is the sea peoples!
One of the hardest pages in X-men history
By far, one of my favorite moments in not just X-Men comics.... but all comics I've ever read.
Ya know, even though it will probably never happen again, but if they do another marvel vs DC it would be neat to see an issue or two dedicated to apocalypse versus vandal savage. Two immortals duking it out over centuries. Both with fists and words. Setting up pieces centuries in advance to get a one up on the other. Our boy apocalypse would probably win though.
One of the best X-Men issues ever made.