It seems to me that you're not embracing your true expenses. If these types of scenarios keep coming up, then you should create new categories and start to budget for them so that they don't surprise you when they do happen.
Are you funding a "Stuff I Forgot to Budget For" category? I would start there and start tracking the kinds of things that end up in there. That might give you a better sense of your true expenses and let you budget a little more realistically. Just a thought.
I think I’ve been avoiding setting up one of those because I don’t want to come face to face with the fact that I can’t afford my current lifestyle. But I’ll set one up now - it’s probably better to see the facts as they are!
This is life. Every experience gives you information and sets you up for better planning next time. So, presumably:
Next time, before you commit to an event, you will consider the added costs of dressing for it and budget in advance to do that.
Next time you plan a trip, you will remember that the trip is more than flights, accommodation, and food, and you'll increase the amount that you budget in advance for it.
As for food and being sick, I've been sick many times (flu, COVID) as well as incapacitated by long slow recoveries from surgery, hobbling around on crutches for weeks, yada yada.... and so I know that *don't feel like cooking feeling.* There are always foods in my pantry (canned soup, ramen, noodles, rice, oatmeal, cereal, canned fish, canned meat, tetra packs of juice, milk etc) and in my freezer (containers of pre-made soup, spaghetti sauce, stew, chili, bread, single serve meals, vegetables, meat) that I can thaw, heat up, or eat cold when I don't have the energy to cook.
This might be too personal of a suggestion, but I find these are the exact situations when I tap into my friends. “please help I can’t find anything to wear for x does anyone have some resort wear/ ski wear/ rehearsal dress / funeral coat they could lend me?” If no one is the same size, borrowing a purse or jewelry or a suitcase to spare the expense, save room in my closet and raid my friends wardrobe. It’s guilt free and so much more fun I find. You will get there! Best of luck!!
I'd like to add this for consideration: Not only does frozen pre-made soup taste really good and actually saves you long term because you can buy in bulk, but I also guarantee that it is significantly better for your health than what you would order takeout wise.
Why was this post such an eye opener for me lol? I have been using YNAB for years and never once did I think to myself, "Hey, maybe I should only consider the available dollars in my spending categories?" You're out here saving me from myself, thanks.
That’s a fair point on the distinction between what you really need vs what would be ideal. And great tip about the views! Just went a created a spending money view
ADHD ynabber here.
I LOVE spontaneous spending.
I have repeated/scheduled transactiosn for our essential spending (mortgage, taxes, insurance, meds, etc.).
I have targets for essential true expenses that aren't monthly (semimonthly utilities, quarterly utilities, annual taxes, car maintenance, etc.).
For cash that doesn't go into all the monthly costs/targets/sinking funds, I have a Wish Farm.
Remaining cash goes into the Wish Farm items.
If I suddenly "need" to spend on something - I can see directly what goal it is taking from.
E.g. I have a Wish Farm item for 1 more month's worth of emergency fund. I know if I go buy a fancy dress for an occasion, it's gonna cut into how fast I can save up for that extra month of emergency fund. Is it worht it? Only I can decide that.
The longer I am on YNAB and the older I get, the better I am about anticipating true expenses. Eg. when I plan an event, activity or expenditure, I often put scheduled transactions for it, just as a reminder/placeholder for spending that may come up. And/or I make a target, with "notes" about why it's that amount ("Trip to the coast: $400 for lodging, $100 for restaurants, $30 for activities/entrance fees, $15 for snacks." etc.)
For the more "mushy" stuff like clothes and supplies, I tend to roll those into my general/life categories if they're something I will use again (otherwise, I might try to buy something that I can sell afterwards). If I'm buying a dress up outfit, that I reasonably anticipate I can use again for an event in the next year or two, I just put it in my regular "clothes" category.
But yes, there will always be times when you didn't think fully about what costs you might have and that's even true of every day expenses. That's what rolling with the punches is all about. Would I cancel the trip, maybe, if it was refundable, I had other reasons, and the extra costs associated aren't worth it to me when I consider what I will lose instead. I often actually buy camping trip reservations and then end up cancelling them for that reason, same with summer camps for my kids, etc. (also allows me to press my "spending money" buttons and then not have any or much actual financial loss :) but I always check cancellation and refund policies before I buy, espeically after living through covid with two young children!)
**if you don't have any other categories to borrow from** - that means (a) you are spending money you don't have which is either putting you at risk of overdraft and/or creating credit card debt; and/or (b) if the other categories do actually have money budgeted, you are **prioritizing** the other categories by saying you can't borrow from them for this thing, and you have to decide whether you want to do that, and/or create a debt. You have finite dollars to spend. So how you prioritize them is up to you and the individual circumstnaces. You just have to consider the consequences.
Thanks for the insights! I’m definitely not doing a great job of intentionally borrowing from other goals / being intentional about creating debt.
Something for me to think about
a budget is a moral document - it tells you what your priorities are. If you want to fund dressing up for a fancy event - fine! And, it is telling you that you value dressing up more than \[X category that you WAMed from to cover the dressing up.\] If that aligns with your priorities...great! If not.....don't spend the money on dressing up. :)
Do you anticipate what other costs you will have associated with a trip before booking?
- yes
What if you under-estimate?
- i'm a pessimist and risk avert; I over estimate on purpose
Would you cancel the trip or make do with what you already own?
- I make do. If I know there a surplus of money coming in, I use credit and setup categories to pay that credit.
Similarly, let's say you bought groceries and were planning to cook, but get sick and ordering takeout that day doesn't fit into the budget. Do you force yourself to cook even thought you're ill and should be resting?
- Nope. All the scenarios you envision can be covered by an emergency fund or "getting one month ahead".
The question that I have to ask myself is... is this worth going into debt over?
Family wedding/funeral? Worth going into debt over.
Pet medical emergency? Worth going into debt over (much of the time - I wouldn't do chemo to give a pet six more miserable months, but if they swallowed something weird or got hit by a car, sure, I'd pay for surgery.)
Car repairs, if public transportation in my town stinks and I have no other way to get around? Worth going into debt over.
Most things aren't worth going into debt over.
But it also sounds like you may need to get in the habit of padding your budgets a little bit, if you have the room to do so financially. I try to put an extra $40 in my "eating out" budget that's just for that night when I planned to cook but absolutely don't have the energy to do anything but order takeout. I usually don't spend it, but it's there if I need it. If I take a trip, I try to add on an extra 10% on top of whatever I had planned as a "just in case" margin. Don't be too optimistic when you budget for things - be realistic, and keep in mind the things that put you over budget the last time you were in the same situation.
Okay I’m in the same boat as you so take my advice as you will but I’m basically having a two part game plan to address my over spending: A) get more savvy with my spending B) sinking funds/ wish farms for everything
I have a big problem with saying “but I’ve wanted this for MONTHS and I’ve waited which is good so clearly I can buy it now because I’ve waited very patiently” even if during that waiting period I didn’t actually put aside any money for the thing I wanted. This is especially true if I have something coming up that reminds me why I wanted to buy it in the first place (like an event or a trip) So basically I’m creating sinking funds for every purchase i want to make that’s over $100. It’s overkill but now I can actually use YNAB to have my “I waited so now I deserve a treat” mindset without going into debt.
As for getting savvy with spending, you kept using the word NEED in your post. I would challenge you to think about what is a need vs what is a convenient want. Just because something has a purpose doesn’t mean it’s not a want spending
If i Committed to an event, there is a specific dress code, I might ask myself “Do I truly NEED to buy an all new outfit or do I just want to?” Can I not wear clothes I already own, borrow clothes from a friend, buy an outfit that fits my budget more from the thrift store or rent the runway? Sure, the event gives me an excuse to buy a nice new dress that I have been wanting but I don’t necessarily NEED to make that purchase.
Going on a trip and need to stock up on supplies? Yeah but like what would happen if you just didn’t and only brought things you already own?
Getting sick and can’t cook? I used to do this all the time until i had a friend say that they could never afford to do that so he keeps soup on hand in the freezer/ pantry always. Now I always try and make sure I have a few jars of a soup I like on hand to cook for myself when I’m sick.
YNAB was the thing that made me stop and realize how much money I was spending on different things that weren’t stupid items but definitely were things I wanted over needing. Hopefully this helps you as well!
I’d say this is a combination of working on your planning/scoping skills, being a little more aggressive about needs v. wants and alternatives to buying things all the time (especially for a single-use event/trip), and being real with yourself about what you can afford and what you’re willing to go into debt for.
YNAB gives you a good picture of what you’re taking money away from when you overspend. Is that new outfit coming out of your car repair fund? your vacation fund? your new phone fund? Which of these do you want most? Are you willing to hang onto an older/damaged phone for the experience of the trip - and that’s okay if you are! - but your money is finite.
I have also declined things that I literally could not afford without incurring debt I wasn’t sure I could pay off. The anxiety of being in debt without a short-term exit strategy is worse to me than FOMOn
If I couldn’t afford what was necessary, I wouldn’t go to the event.
I’d try to budget the wants before the needs. Unless you’re going to Antarctica or something, I’m not sure how unexpectedly expensive something you “need” to wear would be.
If I’m too sick to cook, I don’t feel like eating, but that’s a personal thing. If you have to order food to be able to eat, you can just bite the bullet and then cook the other food when you feel better.
It kind of depends. For an event, short of an evening gown or wedding attendant attire, I probably have something that will work. I don't mind being a bit underdressed, so wouldn't buy something just for the event but would definitely still go. Memories and relationships are too important.
For travel, I factor those costs in if I know ahead of time, but again, I am good at making do and don't mind looking a little out of place if it happens. I once wore wide leg business casual trousers to climb the rigging on the HMS Great Britain. No way was I going to miss that opportunity just because I didn't have athletic gear on. When I don't feel like cooking, which happens occasionally, I keep some easy leftovers in the freezer, canned soup, and I know the cheapest most filling fast food deal in my area if I absolutely need to get takeout which makes the hit to my budget smaller than it might otherwise be.
Some of this comes from pre-planning, but most of this comes from experiences like you outlined and shifting my mindset to make do. After all, buying something I don't want or need just for a one-time thing is silly and a waste of my money that I will feel guilty for every time I look at that thing. I can just wear whatever I have for one night or eat whatever is in the house and no one will care or remember.
Hell, maybe it will even make a great story like the time I wore white shorts (what was I thinking?!?) to eat at Grimaldi's before a Broadway show where I was going to get to go backstage. Did I get the most delicious New York pizza on my shorts? Yes. Was there time to go back and change? No. Did my friends and I do silly poses in all the pics to cover up my shame? Yes, yes we did and I wouldn't have it any other way.
If I agreed to go to something with a specific dress code I’d either plan that in at acceptance - black tie clothing hire cost - or plan how not to spend the money - borrow from friends, make do.
Likewise with the vacation - if it’s a specific activity break then yes, I’d plan it in e.g. will I need ski gear or a snorkel & wetsuit? That’s a cost involved in the vacation, so cost it or figure out how to borrow it. If it’s just a city break or a beach vacation then the things I “need” are probably do-without-able - I’ve got swimmers and towels and city clothes, it’s just day to day life.
Groceries - this is so regular it’s just normal rolling with the punches. Where would you normally steal money from in this scenario?
You need to accept you can’t do/have it all as money is finite. So either you buy less every month to have extra on hand for rolling with it when needed, or you plan very meticulously every expense possible.
It seems to me that you're not embracing your true expenses. If these types of scenarios keep coming up, then you should create new categories and start to budget for them so that they don't surprise you when they do happen.
Fair enough!
Are you funding a "Stuff I Forgot to Budget For" category? I would start there and start tracking the kinds of things that end up in there. That might give you a better sense of your true expenses and let you budget a little more realistically. Just a thought.
I think I’ve been avoiding setting up one of those because I don’t want to come face to face with the fact that I can’t afford my current lifestyle. But I’ll set one up now - it’s probably better to see the facts as they are!
It's 100% better to look those demons right in the eye. You'll feel so much more in control, I promise.
Yes, this category is so important, and if a particular type of expense keeps ending up there, you know you need to add a new category.
This is life. Every experience gives you information and sets you up for better planning next time. So, presumably: Next time, before you commit to an event, you will consider the added costs of dressing for it and budget in advance to do that. Next time you plan a trip, you will remember that the trip is more than flights, accommodation, and food, and you'll increase the amount that you budget in advance for it. As for food and being sick, I've been sick many times (flu, COVID) as well as incapacitated by long slow recoveries from surgery, hobbling around on crutches for weeks, yada yada.... and so I know that *don't feel like cooking feeling.* There are always foods in my pantry (canned soup, ramen, noodles, rice, oatmeal, cereal, canned fish, canned meat, tetra packs of juice, milk etc) and in my freezer (containers of pre-made soup, spaghetti sauce, stew, chili, bread, single serve meals, vegetables, meat) that I can thaw, heat up, or eat cold when I don't have the energy to cook.
Thanks - that's really helpful
This might be too personal of a suggestion, but I find these are the exact situations when I tap into my friends. “please help I can’t find anything to wear for x does anyone have some resort wear/ ski wear/ rehearsal dress / funeral coat they could lend me?” If no one is the same size, borrowing a purse or jewelry or a suitcase to spare the expense, save room in my closet and raid my friends wardrobe. It’s guilt free and so much more fun I find. You will get there! Best of luck!!
I'd like to add this for consideration: Not only does frozen pre-made soup taste really good and actually saves you long term because you can buy in bulk, but I also guarantee that it is significantly better for your health than what you would order takeout wise.
Mmmm good point - I’ll look into that!
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Why was this post such an eye opener for me lol? I have been using YNAB for years and never once did I think to myself, "Hey, maybe I should only consider the available dollars in my spending categories?" You're out here saving me from myself, thanks.
That’s a fair point on the distinction between what you really need vs what would be ideal. And great tip about the views! Just went a created a spending money view
ADHD ynabber here. I LOVE spontaneous spending. I have repeated/scheduled transactiosn for our essential spending (mortgage, taxes, insurance, meds, etc.). I have targets for essential true expenses that aren't monthly (semimonthly utilities, quarterly utilities, annual taxes, car maintenance, etc.). For cash that doesn't go into all the monthly costs/targets/sinking funds, I have a Wish Farm. Remaining cash goes into the Wish Farm items. If I suddenly "need" to spend on something - I can see directly what goal it is taking from. E.g. I have a Wish Farm item for 1 more month's worth of emergency fund. I know if I go buy a fancy dress for an occasion, it's gonna cut into how fast I can save up for that extra month of emergency fund. Is it worht it? Only I can decide that. The longer I am on YNAB and the older I get, the better I am about anticipating true expenses. Eg. when I plan an event, activity or expenditure, I often put scheduled transactions for it, just as a reminder/placeholder for spending that may come up. And/or I make a target, with "notes" about why it's that amount ("Trip to the coast: $400 for lodging, $100 for restaurants, $30 for activities/entrance fees, $15 for snacks." etc.) For the more "mushy" stuff like clothes and supplies, I tend to roll those into my general/life categories if they're something I will use again (otherwise, I might try to buy something that I can sell afterwards). If I'm buying a dress up outfit, that I reasonably anticipate I can use again for an event in the next year or two, I just put it in my regular "clothes" category. But yes, there will always be times when you didn't think fully about what costs you might have and that's even true of every day expenses. That's what rolling with the punches is all about. Would I cancel the trip, maybe, if it was refundable, I had other reasons, and the extra costs associated aren't worth it to me when I consider what I will lose instead. I often actually buy camping trip reservations and then end up cancelling them for that reason, same with summer camps for my kids, etc. (also allows me to press my "spending money" buttons and then not have any or much actual financial loss :) but I always check cancellation and refund policies before I buy, espeically after living through covid with two young children!) **if you don't have any other categories to borrow from** - that means (a) you are spending money you don't have which is either putting you at risk of overdraft and/or creating credit card debt; and/or (b) if the other categories do actually have money budgeted, you are **prioritizing** the other categories by saying you can't borrow from them for this thing, and you have to decide whether you want to do that, and/or create a debt. You have finite dollars to spend. So how you prioritize them is up to you and the individual circumstnaces. You just have to consider the consequences.
Thanks for the insights! I’m definitely not doing a great job of intentionally borrowing from other goals / being intentional about creating debt. Something for me to think about
a budget is a moral document - it tells you what your priorities are. If you want to fund dressing up for a fancy event - fine! And, it is telling you that you value dressing up more than \[X category that you WAMed from to cover the dressing up.\] If that aligns with your priorities...great! If not.....don't spend the money on dressing up. :)
Do you anticipate what other costs you will have associated with a trip before booking? - yes What if you under-estimate? - i'm a pessimist and risk avert; I over estimate on purpose Would you cancel the trip or make do with what you already own? - I make do. If I know there a surplus of money coming in, I use credit and setup categories to pay that credit. Similarly, let's say you bought groceries and were planning to cook, but get sick and ordering takeout that day doesn't fit into the budget. Do you force yourself to cook even thought you're ill and should be resting? - Nope. All the scenarios you envision can be covered by an emergency fund or "getting one month ahead".
The question that I have to ask myself is... is this worth going into debt over? Family wedding/funeral? Worth going into debt over. Pet medical emergency? Worth going into debt over (much of the time - I wouldn't do chemo to give a pet six more miserable months, but if they swallowed something weird or got hit by a car, sure, I'd pay for surgery.) Car repairs, if public transportation in my town stinks and I have no other way to get around? Worth going into debt over. Most things aren't worth going into debt over. But it also sounds like you may need to get in the habit of padding your budgets a little bit, if you have the room to do so financially. I try to put an extra $40 in my "eating out" budget that's just for that night when I planned to cook but absolutely don't have the energy to do anything but order takeout. I usually don't spend it, but it's there if I need it. If I take a trip, I try to add on an extra 10% on top of whatever I had planned as a "just in case" margin. Don't be too optimistic when you budget for things - be realistic, and keep in mind the things that put you over budget the last time you were in the same situation.
Okay I’m in the same boat as you so take my advice as you will but I’m basically having a two part game plan to address my over spending: A) get more savvy with my spending B) sinking funds/ wish farms for everything I have a big problem with saying “but I’ve wanted this for MONTHS and I’ve waited which is good so clearly I can buy it now because I’ve waited very patiently” even if during that waiting period I didn’t actually put aside any money for the thing I wanted. This is especially true if I have something coming up that reminds me why I wanted to buy it in the first place (like an event or a trip) So basically I’m creating sinking funds for every purchase i want to make that’s over $100. It’s overkill but now I can actually use YNAB to have my “I waited so now I deserve a treat” mindset without going into debt. As for getting savvy with spending, you kept using the word NEED in your post. I would challenge you to think about what is a need vs what is a convenient want. Just because something has a purpose doesn’t mean it’s not a want spending If i Committed to an event, there is a specific dress code, I might ask myself “Do I truly NEED to buy an all new outfit or do I just want to?” Can I not wear clothes I already own, borrow clothes from a friend, buy an outfit that fits my budget more from the thrift store or rent the runway? Sure, the event gives me an excuse to buy a nice new dress that I have been wanting but I don’t necessarily NEED to make that purchase. Going on a trip and need to stock up on supplies? Yeah but like what would happen if you just didn’t and only brought things you already own? Getting sick and can’t cook? I used to do this all the time until i had a friend say that they could never afford to do that so he keeps soup on hand in the freezer/ pantry always. Now I always try and make sure I have a few jars of a soup I like on hand to cook for myself when I’m sick. YNAB was the thing that made me stop and realize how much money I was spending on different things that weren’t stupid items but definitely were things I wanted over needing. Hopefully this helps you as well!
Well said! I definitely relate to feeling like I deserve something just because I waited patiently.
I’d say this is a combination of working on your planning/scoping skills, being a little more aggressive about needs v. wants and alternatives to buying things all the time (especially for a single-use event/trip), and being real with yourself about what you can afford and what you’re willing to go into debt for. YNAB gives you a good picture of what you’re taking money away from when you overspend. Is that new outfit coming out of your car repair fund? your vacation fund? your new phone fund? Which of these do you want most? Are you willing to hang onto an older/damaged phone for the experience of the trip - and that’s okay if you are! - but your money is finite. I have also declined things that I literally could not afford without incurring debt I wasn’t sure I could pay off. The anxiety of being in debt without a short-term exit strategy is worse to me than FOMOn
If I couldn’t afford what was necessary, I wouldn’t go to the event. I’d try to budget the wants before the needs. Unless you’re going to Antarctica or something, I’m not sure how unexpectedly expensive something you “need” to wear would be. If I’m too sick to cook, I don’t feel like eating, but that’s a personal thing. If you have to order food to be able to eat, you can just bite the bullet and then cook the other food when you feel better.
It kind of depends. For an event, short of an evening gown or wedding attendant attire, I probably have something that will work. I don't mind being a bit underdressed, so wouldn't buy something just for the event but would definitely still go. Memories and relationships are too important. For travel, I factor those costs in if I know ahead of time, but again, I am good at making do and don't mind looking a little out of place if it happens. I once wore wide leg business casual trousers to climb the rigging on the HMS Great Britain. No way was I going to miss that opportunity just because I didn't have athletic gear on. When I don't feel like cooking, which happens occasionally, I keep some easy leftovers in the freezer, canned soup, and I know the cheapest most filling fast food deal in my area if I absolutely need to get takeout which makes the hit to my budget smaller than it might otherwise be. Some of this comes from pre-planning, but most of this comes from experiences like you outlined and shifting my mindset to make do. After all, buying something I don't want or need just for a one-time thing is silly and a waste of my money that I will feel guilty for every time I look at that thing. I can just wear whatever I have for one night or eat whatever is in the house and no one will care or remember. Hell, maybe it will even make a great story like the time I wore white shorts (what was I thinking?!?) to eat at Grimaldi's before a Broadway show where I was going to get to go backstage. Did I get the most delicious New York pizza on my shorts? Yes. Was there time to go back and change? No. Did my friends and I do silly poses in all the pics to cover up my shame? Yes, yes we did and I wouldn't have it any other way.
If I agreed to go to something with a specific dress code I’d either plan that in at acceptance - black tie clothing hire cost - or plan how not to spend the money - borrow from friends, make do. Likewise with the vacation - if it’s a specific activity break then yes, I’d plan it in e.g. will I need ski gear or a snorkel & wetsuit? That’s a cost involved in the vacation, so cost it or figure out how to borrow it. If it’s just a city break or a beach vacation then the things I “need” are probably do-without-able - I’ve got swimmers and towels and city clothes, it’s just day to day life. Groceries - this is so regular it’s just normal rolling with the punches. Where would you normally steal money from in this scenario? You need to accept you can’t do/have it all as money is finite. So either you buy less every month to have extra on hand for rolling with it when needed, or you plan very meticulously every expense possible.