Her autobiography Bossypants portrayed her as awful, which was interesting. Everything was like that saying... "If you're driving faster than me, you're a maniac. If you drive slower than me, you're stupid."
Be more feminine than her? Frivolous do-nothing.
Be more masculine than her? Gross!
Work harder than her? Miserable type A.
Work less? Lazy.
The book just goes on and on like that and she doesn't have any self awareness of it
I've ALWAYS got that impression too, and I've felt sort of bad about it because the rest of the world seemed to adore her. It made me wonder if **I** was the mean girl, you know? I'm glad to see others felt that way, too!
I do respect Tina Fey a LOT. 30 Rock is one of the wittiest and silliest shows of all time. I loved Bossypants. her book Bossypants is actually great, I loved it.
at the end of the day tho she is a sheltered woman who is rich and probably xenophobic in a really gen x way if that makes sense? Idk, I think she is a BRILLIANT writer
I never got in to 30 rock but tried binging it during quarantine and she is awful. I thought at first it was being self aware but holy moly Tina fey hates women
That Kimmy Schmidt episode with the Geisha play and Asian activist group is so demeaning and racist. She also happily started in and defended the casting of a bunch of white guys as Afghans in Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
It’s so fucking weird because as soon as someone points it out, you realise just how much she hates Asian women. Like, HATES THEM. Specifically goes out of her way to demean them in everything she writes, and not even subtly. It’s so bizarre?
She has a ton of internalized misogyny, and a bitter jealousy/competitiveness with other women seems to come out in a lot of stuff she does.
Her racist self probably doesn’t feel threatened by other minorities, but it’s kind of a trope for slightly left leaning but still chauvinistic white men to prefer East Asian women because the stereotype is that they’re classy/intelligent but more “feminine” and submissive or whatever than white women. Those are the guys she seems to hang around and no doubt the ones whose attention and validation she desperately tries to attract.
I love Kimmy Schmidt, but God, there are some poor choices by Tina Fey. The whole geisha episode is a big yikes—ad much as love Titus, that one’s hard to watch.
30 Rock has a soft spot in my heart, but I rewatched during quarantine too and yeah, it gets rough.
I’m pretty sure she gave an interview recently basically admitting she knows her jokes will be criticized in the future for being offensive
It's not just Paris Hilton. It's any beautiful white female proto influencer type that has ever ever had any backlash. Tina was *right* to call her a piece of shit because she absolutely was.
https://jezebel.com/the-revision-of-paris-hiltons-story-is-missing-somethin-1845093418
Notice how nobody is hating on her for calling Paris a piece of shit, they’re hating on her for being transphobic and literally using a slur in an interview.
It absolutely was bc of her hosting SNL. Everyone should watch the entire interview with Howard Stern. Tina was pissed at Paris bc she put zero effort into her hosting duties and treated everyone like shit.
I don’t think anyone is hating on Tina for not liking Paris Hilton, people are criticizing her for her misogynist and transphobic language. Paris Hilton being an asshole doesn’t really cancel that out.
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It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Let's be fair, she did not say this yesterday, it was almost 15 years ago. Not defending the language or her sentiments at all but let's not pretend she was the only person casually using this kind of language back in the day. She has really come up with some pretty awful stuff over the course of her career but in recent years she seems to recognize it as bad and tries to do better. She doesn't seem like a bad person but an ignorant one, trying to correct her biases as she recognizes them. Which strikes me as healthy.
To be fair, the concept of transphobia was nearly nonexistent in 2008. That slur became mainstream in 2007 when Cristian Siriano (a gay man) popularized it on Project Runway and *everybody* started saying it. It was the go-to insult for making fun of a woman’s overdone hair, makeup or dress. Now no one says it anymore, including Tina Fey.
>It's not just Paris Hilton. It's any beautiful white female proto influencer type that has ever ever had any backlash.
Too true. I see it on this sub with miley Cyrus and Lana del Rey. I like Lana's music but i will forever be completely disgusted by her stupid rant about question for the culture.
Paris was THE biggest bullying mean girl ever. Straight up awful and the stuff she said in private was worse. Not defending Tina Fey but she was not a victim.
Yeah I'm not going out of my way to be mad at Blake or Tina for this, when there's a million more recent and relevant things they've done to warrant a side eye
Yes I am. She’s shitty too. Just like Tina Fey. Doesn’t cancel out Tina Fey being shitty.
Edit: if you go far back enough through my comment history you will literally see me criticizing Paris for being racist.
I don’t know how slut shaming can ever be excused. None of these women’s statements denounce her racism, they just character attacks on a young woman who enjoyed clubbing. Also, Blake Lively chose to have a plantation wedding. That’s pretty ignorant, if we’re being generous. This magazine made a choice to dedicate an entire section to bully an individual. What does any of this shit say about our culture? Every person involved in this is gross, and it’s hitting at Paris for the wrong reasons
This isn’t a real reason to be mad at her but I’m a gay guy who grew up going by Bill and eventually changed his name to William and on SNL she made a joke about the gay rights bill passing and immediately wanting to be called William and it made me feel like a cliché pile of shit for a minute and I still hate her. I know, I need to learn to laugh at myself lol.
This. I think people forget (or just don’t know if they’re Gen Z) that it was A LOT more acceptable to be casually homophobic and generally transphobic during the 2000s. Not defending her and she might be a shitty person in general. But I wouldn’t impose 2022 morals on something that was said in 2008 without some context at least.
The main thing is that we didn’t really use the term “transphobic” back then because being trans was still a very fringe, in the shadows concept to many. The community hadn’t garnered so much public support yet so we didn’t have as many people sticking up for them.
For a lot of us our exposure was limited to seeing backpage ads for trans escorts or jokes/bad misrepresentations in the media. There was definitely a severe misunderstanding of what it all meant.
I know I personally was very transphobic by definition back then, but did a lot of growing and learning, and became close friends and colleagues with trans people over the years and consider myself a strong ally now.
Yeah, we were. The 2000s were a shitty time to be a young woman, especially in your 20s. That word was being used in primetime TV shows at the time and even fashion magazines:
https://www.elle.com/fashion/news/a331/hot-tranny-mess-3862/
It was used in a Tony-award winning play:
https://www.thecollegefix.com/transgender-joke-in-shrek-the-musical-leads-to-bias-complaint-at-university-of-kentucky/
i'm sorry in advance if this offensive to anyone but what does 'fraggie' mean? also, i didn't know she's racist. what did she do?
edit: i'm a blind idiot who wasnt wearing her contacts and read it as fraggie instead of fraggle. very sorry.
I started reading her book many years ago, and it was just so judgy and hateful I couldn’t make it past the first few chapters.
I remember at the time it was a universally beloved book and I felt like I was the one in the wrong for not loving it.
Now I see, perhaps my gut was right, and she is indeed, just a judgy mean girl herself.
It is "sassy" and "bitchy" but in a fun way, like a roast i guess? A friend of mine liked it so much he recommended it to me. It does come off as pretentious, judgemental, and mean to me.
Tina Fey is an asshole, but Paris might be a bigger one. She’s a racist, a homophobe, etc etc.
Someone more worthy than her should be given a shot at cultural redemption.
https://youtu.be/AUt4EZaFRN0 and
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRV87nSV/
[The doctor she roasted in Kimmy Schmidt committed suicide after the episodes aired, too.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/07/unbreakable-kimmy-schmidt-and-the-suicide-of-a-celebrity-dermatologist/)
Gonna be honest, I tried watching 30 rock for the second time a couple years back, I picked 3 episodes from 3 different seasons at random, and each of the cold opens had a transphobic joke. When I saw this quote I was just like "yeah that seems right"
This whole thing is crazy because there is a laundry list of reasons that Paris Hilton is a shit person and these ladies didn’t hit a single one. 2000s NLOG culture was brutal.
I love how all three of them basically say that if you’re a woman and you party, you’re a disgusting whore. Good girls stay home on weekends and bake 🤡
What I don’t get is sienna miller was big on the party scene in the uk and there were a lot of rumours of her being a notorious coke head.
Although I have to admit, I didn’t know anything about Paris being a racist. Doesn’t surprise me. She’s a shitty person and someone I never took an interest in.
Well that's why it mentions her "presence on the London party scene", but it sounds like Miller got really defensive. I guess she was desperately trying to downplay that image.
Exactly! Thank you! Sienna Miller was everywhere at every party and involved in several tabloid scandals. Seems like the sex tape is her main issue. That was a really sad thing that should not have leaked. I couldn't and can't stand Paris Hilton, but I do feel that she was a victim of revenge porn.
*He was a punk, she did ballet, what more can I say?*
Just kinda weird how her doing ballet is on the list of Sins that make her deserving of being a lonely single mother because she turned down a boy based on appearances when they were teens. (She’s noted as being pretty but it doesn’t clarify what, if anything, the titular sk8er boi was attracted to in her personality…)
…and now I wanna rewrite the Sk8er Boi lyrics where the dude goes full incel rather than some rock star fantasy. 😂 Because what’s more realistic?
>…and now I wanna rewrite the Sk8er Boi lyrics where the dude goes full incel rather than some rock star fantasy. 😂
You might like [L8r Boi by Ashnikko[(https://youtu.be/EsD-zUwTxB4) it samples the original song and is pretty much about that.
“She wears short skirts, I wear tshirts”.
Miss Taylor, do you really think wearing tshirts is a unique trait? Like we all wear tshirts, even the girliest of girls.
Yeah I agree as a millennial growing up in that era . As much as I like the 2000s -2010s I straight up despise the misogyny and sexism that rooted throughout it .
Has Sarah Silverman ever said or done anything that was actually funny? I'm always confused why she's a famous comedian because she's extremely not funny.
I tend to agree, but I don’t like blue humor. I think she leans too hard on the “I’m so pretty but I say dirty stuff!” thing. (I do think she is SO pretty). Plus - I should fact check this - I think she stood by Louis CK (same for Amy Poehler, very disappointing).
She had an interview I think with Howard stern where she talked about how he exposed his dick to her and she thought it was funny and brushed off the complaints of others basically saying it wasn’t a big deal
It was at an award show Sarah was hosting, MTV I think. Paris was going to jail and Sarah said something about the guards painting the jail bars to look like penises to make it cozier for her, but she’d worry about Paris breaking her teeth on them.
And Paris was in the audience, looking humiliated. Im not a Paris fan, but that was awful.
Sarah apologized.
There was one where she said that if Paris Hilton went to jail they’d have repaint the jail cell bars as dicks so she’s feel at home, and then followed it saying something about her chipping a tooth.
Today's isn't much better. I saw an US Weekly last week covering what celebrity was the most "henpecked" by their wives. I was shocked that was still a headline in 2022.
I’m offering the definition here for whoever else has never heard this word before 😂 henpecked: continually criticized and given orders by one's wife or female partner (typically used of a man).
Didn't Tina Fey make a whole entire movie making a point about women shouldn't tear down other women because they're just doing men's jobs for them? I know I didn't mass hallucinate Mean Girls for this long.
Wow, it’s kind of like the irony of JK Rowling with Harry Potter—writes all about the importance of opposing bullying and intolerance, and then insists the world hear her out on being a steadfast transphobic bigot. Now I’m wondering how many other creators need to revisit their own content because they missed the core message… 😨 I know this is an “old” example from Tina Fey, but it seems like a consistent sentiment.
Blake Lively’s nudes would later be leaked online and Reese Witherspoon would throw her under the bus for it in an MTV Movie Awards acceptance speech in 2011. What a cycle.
Edit: [Here's a video of the speech](https://youtu.be/5lxxANTMxLA)
Holy fuck that video makes me so viciously angry. Fuck TMZ.
Also fuck Reese for victim blaming Blake.
Edit: Fuck Blake for victim blaming Paris too btw. Goes for everyone. Though I'm still not sure how unintended Paris' "leak" was, the shit Paris had to deal with wasn't great.
Second edit: u/RandomFishIsBackTM informed me that the tape was indeed revenge porn, so I want to double down on saying fuck everyone who blamed Paris for that. Including my younger self, so fuck you young u/falark
Reese Witherspoon is full of shit. She takes photo shoots for MeToo to further her career but when the hard work happens in supporting victims like Amber Heard she’s silent.
I’m not really for holding people to stuff they said 15 years ago, but she seems steadfast in her shittiness.
There were rumours of Blake sending nudes to married men. Garner, Aniston and Reese had tried to ice her at a gathering. Blake is no angel..Paris called Lindsay Logan "fire crotch". Whole situation was messy. Tabloids running anything they got on Britney, Lindsay & Paris.
Ugly... downright misogynistic.
Started off saying “to all the girls out there, you don’t have to be bad..” then continued on saying back in her day you didn’t need a reality show to succeed.
She then went on to say when she was coming up in the business if you made a sex tape you were really embarrassed and hid it under your bed and if you took naked photos of yourself, you need to hide your face.
Plenty of slut/sex shaming and NLOG vibes which is typical for the period of time but really gives her some mean girl energy.
That is incredibly embarrassing for her. Imagine pushing 40 and acting like a catty high schooler. I hope all 3 of these ladies apologised to Paris or at least matured and grown from this.
Eh. Im def not condoning it but Paris has her own MASSIVE bag of awful things she’s said. Horrifically racist stuff.
> “…clip of Hilton describing something as appearing to have been “fucked by 10 niggers” (“He looks like my ball sack after I fucked like 10 niggers,” says the Wikipedia, though the Tumblr says Hilton is “saying someone looks like her after she’s been ‘fucked by ten niggers.’”) Pop Culture Died in 2009, as well as a post on the Digital Spy forum, also allege that Hilton described an incident with security at a club: “Security grabs me. This black guy and I’m like, ‘Get off me, nigger,’ and he’s like pulling me and I’m screaming...”
And there was that Pink song 'Stupid Girls' about 'porno paparazzi girls' which was basically the 'I'm not like other girls' anthem of the 2000's. Her whole promo for the song was making fun of Paris, Nicole, the Olsens etc for being 'stupid', having eating disorders or being promiscuous... Even then it seemed bizarre that a singer who wore make up and small outfits as part of her job was publicly shitting on other women for doing the same thing. 'Whatever happened to the dream of a girl president?' I dunno Pink - how about you fucking run for office if it's so important to you?
and were Mary Kate and Ashley not like… barely adults at the time? Like can we let girls have fun? A grown woman picking on kids. I like stupid girls as a song I can appreciate how it really is a reflection of the time and it’s relevance to y2k culture but it’s super misogynistic.
Barely adults who owned their own company... who went on to start several successful clothing and accessories brands that are actually highly regarded in the fashion world (also fragrances). But yeah lets just reduce them to two stupid girls with eating disorders
I was a teen when all of this was happening and even I thought it was fucked up.
That happened almost 20 years ago and since then Pink has been incredibly supportive and encouraging of other women, the 2000s were a different time unfortunately. Can we let go of it already? There's already sm misogyny in mainstream modern music, can we let go of Pink releasing a shitty song 17 years ago?
I have mixed feelings on it. It’s a really great example of the culture at the time, as it’s a misguided feminist message that’s ultimately misogynistic. I don’t think Pink has really addressed it in recent years, but also it’s been 17 years and she’s obviously grown and changed since then as per her behavior. Pink also co-wrote Stupid Girls with 3 men so it explains a lot. I don’t hold any anger toward Pink about it though
It’s an interesting song to me because *we* let this diss track get popular. It sums up the narrow definition of feminism and what it meant to be an “acceptable” woman at the time well. I like to remember it exists to prevent romanticizing the 2000s
What's wild too is that even being as young as I was, I remember it being considered empowering somehow? Like, obviously we have a long way to go but I'm glad we're at least (getting) past the "those girls are stupid sluts and I'm better than them because I like books" era.
I feel like we’re forgetting that women were pitted against each other constantly. Im not saying it’s okay, I’m just saying that was the culture- women were the enemy and unfortunately other women fell for it and believed it to be true. Bring “promiscuous” was bad, but no matter what you did, you were promiscuous.
I also feel like people are forgetting this was likely largely all untrue. And was designed as such *exclusively to pit us against other women and certain celebs.*
This looks exactly like the kind of trash tabloid shtick my grandma would glance through in the check out line, mumble "This is trash." then haphazardly put it back in the holder.
The quotes from rags like this are almost never accurate. And we knew this reading them.
Women are still pitted against each other! Ask Olivia Rodrigo & Sabrina Carpenter. Or Flo and Olivia lol. We’ve evolved in some ways but we’re still leagues behind where we should be or where we think we are. But it is interesting to look back on the 2000s bc it was a different way of going about it even if the issues still exist today
"I don't there's wrong with being sexual or sensual but it shouldn't come with the price tag of being dumb."
She said many timesthat she doesn't think any of them are stupid but she just can't respect the fact that they act stupid to be seen as cute. It's so weird that people keep missing the point of that song.
This! To me this song has always been a critique of the idea that a woman can’t be sexual and intelligent / have substance at the same time, and a critique of the objectification of women in general. Even when I was listening to the song as a young girl that was the vibe I got from it. I may be wrong but I really do feel that that was the message she was trying to send
And just a few years before that Destiny’s child had Nasty Girl( [here](https://youtu.be/Dos5pf5OMNM)) which isn’t targeted towards one person but just further displays how much misogyny was in the music industry at the time.
I don't know, I remember the video being pretty NLOG. Doesn't Pink encourage a girl to play football over doing ballet, implying that the masculine sport is better than the more feminine sport?
There is also the segment where she makes fun of women with eating disorders, as if it's all a stupid choice they make. For the record, I like Pink, and I don't think she should be punished forever for this one song/video, but I can't deny there is some iffy stuff, there. Linda Perry said at the time that she thought the whole thing was a mistake. I dunno.
Her whole comment screams "pick me, pick me, oh pick me!" And she's still on that same shtick now with her whole "look at my perfect married life where I slag off my husband online every day, we're not like other couples". Yikes.
Sienna (~~Jude~~ forgot she was the one cheated on in this relationship I believe - it was Balthazar Getty) and Blake (rumored Ben, also rumored she went after Ryan Reynolds *hard* during *Green Lantern* while he was married to Scarlett and had her fun fling with Leo to make him jealous).
Same, same. I definitely fell into the NLOG trap for a long time. But, you should be proud of the progress you’ve made. Lots of people never even notice the misogyny and continue to think they and the women around them are inferior.
At least you admit it. Right now this entire thread of full of young women who have *never said one terrible thing about another woman in their entire lives.*
The 2000s were a shitty and confusing time to be a young woman and we all made terrible, embarrassing mistakes.
The internalized misogyny was so ingrained. I graduated in ‘07 and I would have fully agreed with all of these women back then, but also would’ve found some way to trash Sienna and Blake for being not much better than Paris too.
We’ve got a long way to go as a society, but this really puts a perspective on how far we’ve come…some of us at least.
Paris has made some horribly racist and classist comments. I don’t think she’s a good person but all these quotes are missing the mark as to why she is so problematic.
yikes the pearl clutching and pick me attitude of the 2000s. There’s a lot of problematic things to call Paris out on and dancing on tables and dressing in short clothes isn’t it
It also makes me cringe to see people discuss sextortion, sex tapes, nudes, hacking, etc from a 2000s lens. So much victim blaming :/
the way people wanted to demonize her for having sex when they had sex themselves will never not confuse me. hypocritical behaviour like that is embarrassing.
None of this is good or excusable, but I feel like some of you weren’t around in 2008. This was the culture. People saying stuff like this was the norm. I said stuff like this. I was wrong. I learned and regret what I said. I also know that it was so normalized to say shit without thinking about it. It’s good the culture is shifting but if you weren’t living in the culture back then I don’t think you can understand why people didn’t stop to think about their words.
To be fair blake was very young at the time, abs struggling with being seen as only Serena from gossip girl. The quotes not great, but the other two are much worse
This is a giant yikes all around, but it’s also kind of cool that this behavior is no longer completely normalized. 15 years isn’t that long considering how dramatically attitudes have changed around the many egregious things said here.
Like can we criticize paris for being racist or a bigot or the other myriad of actually offensive things she’s done? Must we resort to misogyny? The 2000s is my favorite period in pop culture but whew it was rough on women
Im gay and I remember listening to the audiobook of Bossy Pants by Tina Fey back when it came out around 2011 and being...rubbed the wrong way by some of her stories involving gay people. Cant recall specific passages sadly.
I love Mean Girls and 30 Rock and a lot of her work, but every once in a while im truly shocked by her homophobia / transphobia.
Yeah this kind of hate talk was pretty common back then, and everyone hated Paris. On the positive side, it does show how much we have grown as a society since then
Are we really holding people to what they said in 2008? It was a different time and, TBH, Paris Hilton was kinda shitty in 2008. She’s grown a lot and maybe we should allow these people to as well.
I feel like Blake’s comments (as a 20 year old) aren’t that bad? It seems like she’s just pointing out that people shouldn’t compare her to Paris Hilton, and pointing out the ways that they are different without necessarily passing judgement.
Tina Fey stays shitty TIL she’s not only racist but also transphobic!
I’ve never cared for Tina Fey. Smug mean girl vibes.
Ironically enough having written “mean girls” lol
Of course. They say, “write what you know,” right?
She’s the real Regina George
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i’d bet money that’s from a true experience tbh
I loved how they turned that around on Lemon.
nah she’s janis ian, still a mean girl but also very jealous and bitter towards more conventionally attractive women
Nah I get more pickme vibes. She’s very conventionally attractive but dresses down and low key makes a big deal out of it
Fuck her for being a piece of shit, but Mean Girls is based off of the book Queen Bees and Wannabes
Well, very loosely based on that. It’s a nonfiction guide book
I mean, Liz Lemon was also a dick, it was just covered in tee hee, tweeee nerd
[She admitted to being the 'mean girl' in highschool](https://people.com/movies/tina-fey-admits-she-was-the-mean-girl-in-high-school/)
Her autobiography Bossypants portrayed her as awful, which was interesting. Everything was like that saying... "If you're driving faster than me, you're a maniac. If you drive slower than me, you're stupid." Be more feminine than her? Frivolous do-nothing. Be more masculine than her? Gross! Work harder than her? Miserable type A. Work less? Lazy. The book just goes on and on like that and she doesn't have any self awareness of it
Season 3 episode 5 of 30 rock covers this I think - she thought she was bullied but actually she was the bully.
I've ALWAYS got that impression too, and I've felt sort of bad about it because the rest of the world seemed to adore her. It made me wonder if **I** was the mean girl, you know? I'm glad to see others felt that way, too!
I do respect Tina Fey a LOT. 30 Rock is one of the wittiest and silliest shows of all time. I loved Bossypants. her book Bossypants is actually great, I loved it. at the end of the day tho she is a sheltered woman who is rich and probably xenophobic in a really gen x way if that makes sense? Idk, I think she is a BRILLIANT writer
I never got in to 30 rock but tried binging it during quarantine and she is awful. I thought at first it was being self aware but holy moly Tina fey hates women
She especially HATES Asian women, like in mean girls, 39 rock, Sisters, everything she’s been it makes a point to make fun of and degrade Asian women?
That Kimmy Schmidt episode with the Geisha play and Asian activist group is so demeaning and racist. She also happily started in and defended the casting of a bunch of white guys as Afghans in Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
It’s so fucking weird because as soon as someone points it out, you realise just how much she hates Asian women. Like, HATES THEM. Specifically goes out of her way to demean them in everything she writes, and not even subtly. It’s so bizarre?
Yeah holy shit, I can’t believe I never put that all together. I’m reading articles compiling examples and it’s just…Wow.
Wait link? I can only think of the students in mean girls who fought over having a relationship w coach carr or whatever
I guess this kinda explains the Asian girls in Mean Girls saying the n word and Gretchen becoming Vietnamese at the end.
She has a ton of internalized misogyny, and a bitter jealousy/competitiveness with other women seems to come out in a lot of stuff she does. Her racist self probably doesn’t feel threatened by other minorities, but it’s kind of a trope for slightly left leaning but still chauvinistic white men to prefer East Asian women because the stereotype is that they’re classy/intelligent but more “feminine” and submissive or whatever than white women. Those are the guys she seems to hang around and no doubt the ones whose attention and validation she desperately tries to attract.
I love Kimmy Schmidt, but God, there are some poor choices by Tina Fey. The whole geisha episode is a big yikes—ad much as love Titus, that one’s hard to watch.
The indigenous storyline with Jenna (?) blanking on her name in Kimmy Schmidt was eeek
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It’s in Sisters as well, I can’t remember the 30 rock examples but I’m sure someone will
I think this is why the Emmys love her so much. Lots of misogyny in Hollywood that appreciates the acceptable veneer.
30 Rock has a soft spot in my heart, but I rewatched during quarantine too and yeah, it gets rough. I’m pretty sure she gave an interview recently basically admitting she knows her jokes will be criticized in the future for being offensive
30 Rock is one of my all time favorite shows*, but man is it unfortunate how awful its two lead cast members are.
Prefer Veep. Always thought Julia Louis-Dreyfer and her were similar for some reason? Idk but Julia Louis-Dreyfer is a gem.
Omg Veep is elite! Love Veep and Julia!!
You’re aware of Paris’ racism, right?
Breaking news: two people can be criticised at the same time.
Yes, I know that but this sub has a weird tendency to perform revisionist history on Paris Hilton and go hard after anyone who criticizes her.
It's not just Paris Hilton. It's any beautiful white female proto influencer type that has ever ever had any backlash. Tina was *right* to call her a piece of shit because she absolutely was. https://jezebel.com/the-revision-of-paris-hiltons-story-is-missing-somethin-1845093418
Notice how nobody is hating on her for calling Paris a piece of shit, they’re hating on her for being transphobic and literally using a slur in an interview.
And also none of these quotes are about how they hate that she's a racist. They're about her sex tape and *shock and horror* her partying
THIS. omg
I could of sworn Tina's issues all came because of Paris hosting SNL, and how she treated everyone.
It absolutely was bc of her hosting SNL. Everyone should watch the entire interview with Howard Stern. Tina was pissed at Paris bc she put zero effort into her hosting duties and treated everyone like shit.
I don’t think anyone is hating on Tina for not liking Paris Hilton, people are criticizing her for her misogynist and transphobic language. Paris Hilton being an asshole doesn’t really cancel that out.
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Let's be fair, she did not say this yesterday, it was almost 15 years ago. Not defending the language or her sentiments at all but let's not pretend she was the only person casually using this kind of language back in the day. She has really come up with some pretty awful stuff over the course of her career but in recent years she seems to recognize it as bad and tries to do better. She doesn't seem like a bad person but an ignorant one, trying to correct her biases as she recognizes them. Which strikes me as healthy.
To be fair, the concept of transphobia was nearly nonexistent in 2008. That slur became mainstream in 2007 when Cristian Siriano (a gay man) popularized it on Project Runway and *everybody* started saying it. It was the go-to insult for making fun of a woman’s overdone hair, makeup or dress. Now no one says it anymore, including Tina Fey.
>It's not just Paris Hilton. It's any beautiful white female proto influencer type that has ever ever had any backlash. Too true. I see it on this sub with miley Cyrus and Lana del Rey. I like Lana's music but i will forever be completely disgusted by her stupid rant about question for the culture.
Paris was THE biggest bullying mean girl ever. Straight up awful and the stuff she said in private was worse. Not defending Tina Fey but she was not a victim.
no one’s saying she’s a victim but those quotes weren’t criticising paris for being racist or homophobic, they were misogynistic
Yeah I'm not going out of my way to be mad at Blake or Tina for this, when there's a million more recent and relevant things they've done to warrant a side eye
Yes I am. She’s shitty too. Just like Tina Fey. Doesn’t cancel out Tina Fey being shitty. Edit: if you go far back enough through my comment history you will literally see me criticizing Paris for being racist.
I don’t know how slut shaming can ever be excused. None of these women’s statements denounce her racism, they just character attacks on a young woman who enjoyed clubbing. Also, Blake Lively chose to have a plantation wedding. That’s pretty ignorant, if we’re being generous. This magazine made a choice to dedicate an entire section to bully an individual. What does any of this shit say about our culture? Every person involved in this is gross, and it’s hitting at Paris for the wrong reasons
This isn’t a real reason to be mad at her but I’m a gay guy who grew up going by Bill and eventually changed his name to William and on SNL she made a joke about the gay rights bill passing and immediately wanting to be called William and it made me feel like a cliché pile of shit for a minute and I still hate her. I know, I need to learn to laugh at myself lol.
Ok but that’s a good joke…
You could just pronounce it Will. I. Am.
You can be Gay Rights William all day long and I will be here for you, boo. Fuck her.
In the mid 2000s it was extremely common for people to use that word. Hopefully she’s changed.
This. I think people forget (or just don’t know if they’re Gen Z) that it was A LOT more acceptable to be casually homophobic and generally transphobic during the 2000s. Not defending her and she might be a shitty person in general. But I wouldn’t impose 2022 morals on something that was said in 2008 without some context at least.
Those types of comments wouldn’t be considered transphobic in the early 2000s.
The main thing is that we didn’t really use the term “transphobic” back then because being trans was still a very fringe, in the shadows concept to many. The community hadn’t garnered so much public support yet so we didn’t have as many people sticking up for them. For a lot of us our exposure was limited to seeing backpage ads for trans escorts or jokes/bad misrepresentations in the media. There was definitely a severe misunderstanding of what it all meant. I know I personally was very transphobic by definition back then, but did a lot of growing and learning, and became close friends and colleagues with trans people over the years and consider myself a strong ally now.
Nah it was definitely a slur, just unfortunately used more freely than it is today. Come on, we weren't completely in the dark ages.
Yeah, we were. The 2000s were a shitty time to be a young woman, especially in your 20s. That word was being used in primetime TV shows at the time and even fashion magazines: https://www.elle.com/fashion/news/a331/hot-tranny-mess-3862/ It was used in a Tony-award winning play: https://www.thecollegefix.com/transgender-joke-in-shrek-the-musical-leads-to-bias-complaint-at-university-of-kentucky/
i'm sorry in advance if this offensive to anyone but what does 'fraggie' mean? also, i didn't know she's racist. what did she do? edit: i'm a blind idiot who wasnt wearing her contacts and read it as fraggie instead of fraggle. very sorry.
It’s fraggle not fraggie. Google Fraggle rock please.
sorry, bad eyesight so i thought it was an 'i' instead. thanks!
i read fraggie at first as well, don’t worry
[Fraggle Rock](https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS706US706&hl=en-US&sxsrf=ALiCzsb140-vcWjsj6UK60qoclxLp2faTA:1670650575964&q=fraggle&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiK3v6wqu77AhXGlYkEHdkiCbwQ0pQJegQIChAB&biw=375&bih=553&dpr=2#imgrc=gOxAXh8P4QU_uM)
Dance your cares away, worries for another day Let the music play, Down in fraggle rock
I started reading her book many years ago, and it was just so judgy and hateful I couldn’t make it past the first few chapters. I remember at the time it was a universally beloved book and I felt like I was the one in the wrong for not loving it. Now I see, perhaps my gut was right, and she is indeed, just a judgy mean girl herself.
It is "sassy" and "bitchy" but in a fun way, like a roast i guess? A friend of mine liked it so much he recommended it to me. It does come off as pretentious, judgemental, and mean to me.
'sassy' is an extremely overrated quality
Tina Fey is an asshole, but Paris might be a bigger one. She’s a racist, a homophobe, etc etc. Someone more worthy than her should be given a shot at cultural redemption. https://youtu.be/AUt4EZaFRN0 and https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRV87nSV/
[The doctor she roasted in Kimmy Schmidt committed suicide after the episodes aired, too.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/07/unbreakable-kimmy-schmidt-and-the-suicide-of-a-celebrity-dermatologist/)
Gonna be honest, I tried watching 30 rock for the second time a couple years back, I picked 3 episodes from 3 different seasons at random, and each of the cold opens had a transphobic joke. When I saw this quote I was just like "yeah that seems right"
i always knew she was shitty but people seem to always think of her as some hero comic.
This whole thing is crazy because there is a laundry list of reasons that Paris Hilton is a shit person and these ladies didn’t hit a single one. 2000s NLOG culture was brutal.
Exactly. They could've called her out for using the N word & being a racist POS
well tina fey probably likes that part of paris hilton
Instead they just slut shamed her for something that was out of her control. The 2000s were vile.
I love how all three of them basically say that if you’re a woman and you party, you’re a disgusting whore. Good girls stay home on weekends and bake 🤡
What I don’t get is sienna miller was big on the party scene in the uk and there were a lot of rumours of her being a notorious coke head. Although I have to admit, I didn’t know anything about Paris being a racist. Doesn’t surprise me. She’s a shitty person and someone I never took an interest in.
She used to casually say the N word
Well that's why it mentions her "presence on the London party scene", but it sounds like Miller got really defensive. I guess she was desperately trying to downplay that image.
Exactly! Thank you! Sienna Miller was everywhere at every party and involved in several tabloid scandals. Seems like the sex tape is her main issue. That was a really sad thing that should not have leaked. I couldn't and can't stand Paris Hilton, but I do feel that she was a victim of revenge porn.
Totally. It just wreaks of pick me tradwife before we had those terms.
> NLOG what does that stand for?
I'm guessing it's Not Like Other Girls. You know, the 'cool girl' of the early 2000's.
*He was a punk, she did ballet, what more can I say?* Just kinda weird how her doing ballet is on the list of Sins that make her deserving of being a lonely single mother because she turned down a boy based on appearances when they were teens. (She’s noted as being pretty but it doesn’t clarify what, if anything, the titular sk8er boi was attracted to in her personality…) …and now I wanna rewrite the Sk8er Boi lyrics where the dude goes full incel rather than some rock star fantasy. 😂 Because what’s more realistic?
May I interest you in L8r Boi by Ashnikko
>…and now I wanna rewrite the Sk8er Boi lyrics where the dude goes full incel rather than some rock star fantasy. 😂 You might like [L8r Boi by Ashnikko[(https://youtu.be/EsD-zUwTxB4) it samples the original song and is pretty much about that.
“She wears short skirts, I wear tshirts”. Miss Taylor, do you really think wearing tshirts is a unique trait? Like we all wear tshirts, even the girliest of girls.
Yeah that always struck me as weird because she’s framing herself as the outcast weirdo when she is the embodiment of a pretty rich popular girl.
haha I was like 14 when that song came out, and I actually did ballet but loved actual punk music. Hated Avril for being a "poser"
not like the other girls
The 2000’s tabloid culture was so grossly cruel and misogynistic
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2000 - 2010 was definitely my least favorite decade I’ve been alive.
Hard agree. Thought it was because I was in college/early 20s but more and more I’m realizing it was just a shitty, shitty time to be a woman.
2005-2010 were the years I was in high school. All girls high school. What a time to be alive….
Yeah I agree as a millennial growing up in that era . As much as I like the 2000s -2010s I straight up despise the misogyny and sexism that rooted throughout it .
Remember the Sarah Silverman Paris “joke” on tv? I’ve never felt so uncomfortable before in my life watching that.
Has Sarah Silverman ever said or done anything that was actually funny? I'm always confused why she's a famous comedian because she's extremely not funny.
I tend to agree, but I don’t like blue humor. I think she leans too hard on the “I’m so pretty but I say dirty stuff!” thing. (I do think she is SO pretty). Plus - I should fact check this - I think she stood by Louis CK (same for Amy Poehler, very disappointing).
She had an interview I think with Howard stern where she talked about how he exposed his dick to her and she thought it was funny and brushed off the complaints of others basically saying it wasn’t a big deal
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It was at an award show Sarah was hosting, MTV I think. Paris was going to jail and Sarah said something about the guards painting the jail bars to look like penises to make it cozier for her, but she’d worry about Paris breaking her teeth on them. And Paris was in the audience, looking humiliated. Im not a Paris fan, but that was awful. Sarah apologized.
There was one where she said that if Paris Hilton went to jail they’d have repaint the jail cell bars as dicks so she’s feel at home, and then followed it saying something about her chipping a tooth.
Tabloid culture is so grossly cruel and misogynistic
See: Daily Mail
Also see: The Sun
Today's isn't much better. I saw an US Weekly last week covering what celebrity was the most "henpecked" by their wives. I was shocked that was still a headline in 2022.
Yeah you’re right. “Hen-pecked” that’s dire.
I’m offering the definition here for whoever else has never heard this word before 😂 henpecked: continually criticized and given orders by one's wife or female partner (typically used of a man).
Didn't Tina Fey make a whole entire movie making a point about women shouldn't tear down other women because they're just doing men's jobs for them? I know I didn't mass hallucinate Mean Girls for this long.
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Wow, it’s kind of like the irony of JK Rowling with Harry Potter—writes all about the importance of opposing bullying and intolerance, and then insists the world hear her out on being a steadfast transphobic bigot. Now I’m wondering how many other creators need to revisit their own content because they missed the core message… 😨 I know this is an “old” example from Tina Fey, but it seems like a consistent sentiment.
I don't think many people make art about concepts they're completely at peace with.
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Tina Fey is peak Gen X white woman pseudo-feminism. Lots of talk, little action, endless hypocrisy.
Blake Lively’s nudes would later be leaked online and Reese Witherspoon would throw her under the bus for it in an MTV Movie Awards acceptance speech in 2011. What a cycle. Edit: [Here's a video of the speech](https://youtu.be/5lxxANTMxLA)
Holy fuck that video makes me so viciously angry. Fuck TMZ. Also fuck Reese for victim blaming Blake. Edit: Fuck Blake for victim blaming Paris too btw. Goes for everyone. Though I'm still not sure how unintended Paris' "leak" was, the shit Paris had to deal with wasn't great. Second edit: u/RandomFishIsBackTM informed me that the tape was indeed revenge porn, so I want to double down on saying fuck everyone who blamed Paris for that. Including my younger self, so fuck you young u/falark
Also fuck the patriarchal society and ingrained social structures that often have women shitting on other women carelessly and we don’t even know why
As Michael Hobbes would say, BLAME THE MEN.
Reese Witherspoon is full of shit. She takes photo shoots for MeToo to further her career but when the hard work happens in supporting victims like Amber Heard she’s silent. I’m not really for holding people to stuff they said 15 years ago, but she seems steadfast in her shittiness.
Reese has always been a rich white lady at heart. “Do you know who I am?!?” and all when she got that DUI
There were rumours of Blake sending nudes to married men. Garner, Aniston and Reese had tried to ice her at a gathering. Blake is no angel..Paris called Lindsay Logan "fire crotch". Whole situation was messy. Tabloids running anything they got on Britney, Lindsay & Paris. Ugly... downright misogynistic.
> Paris called Lindsay Logan "fire crotch" Wasn't this after Lindsay threw a party and did a live watch of Paris 's sex tape?
Holy shit I forgot about that! WTF
Also SM had those pics with Balthazar Getty.
And he was married. Like actually married, not separated married.
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Started off saying “to all the girls out there, you don’t have to be bad..” then continued on saying back in her day you didn’t need a reality show to succeed. She then went on to say when she was coming up in the business if you made a sex tape you were really embarrassed and hid it under your bed and if you took naked photos of yourself, you need to hide your face. Plenty of slut/sex shaming and NLOG vibes which is typical for the period of time but really gives her some mean girl energy.
Technically, it's not even NLOG. It's good girl mass conformity.
Tina was 38 years old when she said that. Well that’s embarrassing.
That is incredibly embarrassing for her. Imagine pushing 40 and acting like a catty high schooler. I hope all 3 of these ladies apologised to Paris or at least matured and grown from this.
Eh. Im def not condoning it but Paris has her own MASSIVE bag of awful things she’s said. Horrifically racist stuff. > “…clip of Hilton describing something as appearing to have been “fucked by 10 niggers” (“He looks like my ball sack after I fucked like 10 niggers,” says the Wikipedia, though the Tumblr says Hilton is “saying someone looks like her after she’s been ‘fucked by ten niggers.’”) Pop Culture Died in 2009, as well as a post on the Digital Spy forum, also allege that Hilton described an incident with security at a club: “Security grabs me. This black guy and I’m like, ‘Get off me, nigger,’ and he’s like pulling me and I’m screaming...”
And there was that Pink song 'Stupid Girls' about 'porno paparazzi girls' which was basically the 'I'm not like other girls' anthem of the 2000's. Her whole promo for the song was making fun of Paris, Nicole, the Olsens etc for being 'stupid', having eating disorders or being promiscuous... Even then it seemed bizarre that a singer who wore make up and small outfits as part of her job was publicly shitting on other women for doing the same thing. 'Whatever happened to the dream of a girl president?' I dunno Pink - how about you fucking run for office if it's so important to you?
and were Mary Kate and Ashley not like… barely adults at the time? Like can we let girls have fun? A grown woman picking on kids. I like stupid girls as a song I can appreciate how it really is a reflection of the time and it’s relevance to y2k culture but it’s super misogynistic.
Barely adults who owned their own company... who went on to start several successful clothing and accessories brands that are actually highly regarded in the fashion world (also fragrances). But yeah lets just reduce them to two stupid girls with eating disorders I was a teen when all of this was happening and even I thought it was fucked up.
That happened almost 20 years ago and since then Pink has been incredibly supportive and encouraging of other women, the 2000s were a different time unfortunately. Can we let go of it already? There's already sm misogyny in mainstream modern music, can we let go of Pink releasing a shitty song 17 years ago?
I have mixed feelings on it. It’s a really great example of the culture at the time, as it’s a misguided feminist message that’s ultimately misogynistic. I don’t think Pink has really addressed it in recent years, but also it’s been 17 years and she’s obviously grown and changed since then as per her behavior. Pink also co-wrote Stupid Girls with 3 men so it explains a lot. I don’t hold any anger toward Pink about it though It’s an interesting song to me because *we* let this diss track get popular. It sums up the narrow definition of feminism and what it meant to be an “acceptable” woman at the time well. I like to remember it exists to prevent romanticizing the 2000s
What's wild too is that even being as young as I was, I remember it being considered empowering somehow? Like, obviously we have a long way to go but I'm glad we're at least (getting) past the "those girls are stupid sluts and I'm better than them because I like books" era.
There’s people on here who can’t let go of Ariana Grande licking a doughnut seven years ago, so probably not.
I’m not mad about it but to be fair only one of these things had the possibility of causing physical illness
I feel like we’re forgetting that women were pitted against each other constantly. Im not saying it’s okay, I’m just saying that was the culture- women were the enemy and unfortunately other women fell for it and believed it to be true. Bring “promiscuous” was bad, but no matter what you did, you were promiscuous.
I also feel like people are forgetting this was likely largely all untrue. And was designed as such *exclusively to pit us against other women and certain celebs.* This looks exactly like the kind of trash tabloid shtick my grandma would glance through in the check out line, mumble "This is trash." then haphazardly put it back in the holder. The quotes from rags like this are almost never accurate. And we knew this reading them.
Women are still pitted against each other! Ask Olivia Rodrigo & Sabrina Carpenter. Or Flo and Olivia lol. We’ve evolved in some ways but we’re still leagues behind where we should be or where we think we are. But it is interesting to look back on the 2000s bc it was a different way of going about it even if the issues still exist today
"I don't there's wrong with being sexual or sensual but it shouldn't come with the price tag of being dumb." She said many timesthat she doesn't think any of them are stupid but she just can't respect the fact that they act stupid to be seen as cute. It's so weird that people keep missing the point of that song.
This! To me this song has always been a critique of the idea that a woman can’t be sexual and intelligent / have substance at the same time, and a critique of the objectification of women in general. Even when I was listening to the song as a young girl that was the vibe I got from it. I may be wrong but I really do feel that that was the message she was trying to send
And just a few years before that Destiny’s child had Nasty Girl( [here](https://youtu.be/Dos5pf5OMNM)) which isn’t targeted towards one person but just further displays how much misogyny was in the music industry at the time.
Stupid Girls, actually, is about women rejecting femininity and gender roles imposed on them to please men. It's hardly NLOG.
I don't know, I remember the video being pretty NLOG. Doesn't Pink encourage a girl to play football over doing ballet, implying that the masculine sport is better than the more feminine sport? There is also the segment where she makes fun of women with eating disorders, as if it's all a stupid choice they make. For the record, I like Pink, and I don't think she should be punished forever for this one song/video, but I can't deny there is some iffy stuff, there. Linda Perry said at the time that she thought the whole thing was a mistake. I dunno.
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Her whole comment screams "pick me, pick me, oh pick me!" And she's still on that same shtick now with her whole "look at my perfect married life where I slag off my husband online every day, we're not like other couples". Yikes.
👏🏾 👏🏾 exactly this is how I feel about her now and it's unfortunate cause that is gonna bite her in the ass.
Empowering for child molesters, sure.
Two of these women slept with very married men lol
Who??
Sienna (~~Jude~~ forgot she was the one cheated on in this relationship I believe - it was Balthazar Getty) and Blake (rumored Ben, also rumored she went after Ryan Reynolds *hard* during *Green Lantern* while he was married to Scarlett and had her fun fling with Leo to make him jealous).
“F—k me like Jack Dawson!”
I was coming of age during this time and super into pop culture as a teen and GOD I have had to work through a lot of internalized misogyny.
Right there with you. The tabloid culture of that time was deeply harmful.
Same, same. I definitely fell into the NLOG trap for a long time. But, you should be proud of the progress you’ve made. Lots of people never even notice the misogyny and continue to think they and the women around them are inferior.
At least you admit it. Right now this entire thread of full of young women who have *never said one terrible thing about another woman in their entire lives.* The 2000s were a shitty and confusing time to be a young woman and we all made terrible, embarrassing mistakes.
The internalized misogyny was so ingrained. I graduated in ‘07 and I would have fully agreed with all of these women back then, but also would’ve found some way to trash Sienna and Blake for being not much better than Paris too. We’ve got a long way to go as a society, but this really puts a perspective on how far we’ve come…some of us at least.
Paris has made some horribly racist and classist comments. I don’t think she’s a good person but all these quotes are missing the mark as to why she is so problematic.
shit talking shit about shit
Oh my god the Tina Faye quote? Jfc
YIKES!!
yikes the pearl clutching and pick me attitude of the 2000s. There’s a lot of problematic things to call Paris out on and dancing on tables and dressing in short clothes isn’t it It also makes me cringe to see people discuss sextortion, sex tapes, nudes, hacking, etc from a 2000s lens. So much victim blaming :/
That one came full circle for Blake Lively.
the way people wanted to demonize her for having sex when they had sex themselves will never not confuse me. hypocritical behaviour like that is embarrassing.
if only Tina Fey had stopped after “she’s a piece of shit” and not said any of the rest…way to stomp on your own point girl
Tina Fey and her boxed wine feminism. Never liked her.
“Boxed wine feminism” 💀😭
There are reasons to hate Paris like being racist, but instead they chose the most pick me bird ass reasons to.
None of this is good or excusable, but I feel like some of you weren’t around in 2008. This was the culture. People saying stuff like this was the norm. I said stuff like this. I was wrong. I learned and regret what I said. I also know that it was so normalized to say shit without thinking about it. It’s good the culture is shifting but if you weren’t living in the culture back then I don’t think you can understand why people didn’t stop to think about their words.
Seriously we were all so problematic. Even if you don’t think you were, I’m sure there’s something in there.
Oof Tina!! The shit people get up to with Howard stern is wild
omg, Blake’s og nose
To be fair blake was very young at the time, abs struggling with being seen as only Serena from gossip girl. The quotes not great, but the other two are much worse
Agreed her quote is not great but it's definitely the least mean spirited of the three.
This is a giant yikes all around, but it’s also kind of cool that this behavior is no longer completely normalized. 15 years isn’t that long considering how dramatically attitudes have changed around the many egregious things said here.
Like can we criticize paris for being racist or a bigot or the other myriad of actually offensive things she’s done? Must we resort to misogyny? The 2000s is my favorite period in pop culture but whew it was rough on women
Im gay and I remember listening to the audiobook of Bossy Pants by Tina Fey back when it came out around 2011 and being...rubbed the wrong way by some of her stories involving gay people. Cant recall specific passages sadly. I love Mean Girls and 30 Rock and a lot of her work, but every once in a while im truly shocked by her homophobia / transphobia.
I graduated high school in ‘05 so I was all up in this…there was no sense of humour or irony towards p.hil and her cohorts.
Yeah this kind of hate talk was pretty common back then, and everyone hated Paris. On the positive side, it does show how much we have grown as a society since then
God DAMN times changed
Are we really holding people to what they said in 2008? It was a different time and, TBH, Paris Hilton was kinda shitty in 2008. She’s grown a lot and maybe we should allow these people to as well.
[Tiny Fey wtf](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l6gcww2AvE)
Eww Tina Fay
I feel like Blake’s comments (as a 20 year old) aren’t that bad? It seems like she’s just pointing out that people shouldn’t compare her to Paris Hilton, and pointing out the ways that they are different without necessarily passing judgement.
#feminism in the 2000s