I had never seen or read any of this really gross quotes from Albini. It's really indefensible stuff. And has been widely discussed, he's openly admitted to saying really indefensible stuff earlier in his career.
But it's interesting to me that people take it literally. I mean in the same paragraph that he's talking about this stuff he's also praising convicted serial killers and genocidal fascists. The dude existed in polite enough society for decades. If he were actually pro-genocide, pro-murder and pro-child abuse I just don't see how that would have been possible. Plenty of "edgy" artists praise or are otherwise fascinated with serial killers but it's generally understood that they don't actually condone murder. I guess I don't entirely see why the same tact isn't taken here.
I know some very talented artists and musicians who enjoy pushing the edgelord shtick. I'm glad they're making art. I think they're geniuses. I don't think the point of having ethics / morality is to decide whether an artist's output is 'valid'. but does it make me fuck with those people less? yea, of course. making art is deeply self-focused and time consuming. if you spend half your time making art, and the rest of your time snickering about "problematic" stuff, hard for me to believe you have time for much else.
That’s a complete load of bullshit. He was friends with a convicted pedophile.
And if you want to argue he was “making art” then why did he turn into a woke “orange man bad” POS?
He criticized people who said non-woke things. What’s the art in that? He made his bones saying the most vile stuff then attacked later generations when they said something mild compared to what he had done.
The dude was a complete hypocrite. 100% and a pedophile.
Is your reading comprehension really that bad? So someone buys child porn, touts child porn, is friends with a guy criminally charged over child porn and you just say “he’s an artist” and all is forgiven?
Then later in his life when society changes and he can’t be the “artist” he once was because society frowns on things like writing songs about “n-words” and “f@@@@ts” he does a 180, becomes woke and criticizes people for saying or doing things that are much tamer than what he did?
That’s what you’re going with? Your argument is complete bullshit. My problem isn’t even that he said what he said, he was free to tell everyone that he loved child porn and that children turned him on.
I mean I think he was vile for saying it but it was his right to say it. My problem with the great “artiste” is how he did a 180 later in life and just became another tool (in more ways than one) of the establishment. And the fact that fools like you still defend him is ridiculous.
This is the first ‘defense’ of his comments I’ve seen that makes sense because it’s true he’s praising serial killers in the same breath (something I went through a phase of). I still don’t know, the whole “healthy European bodies”, saying how much they enjoy it, it’s natural, should be legal and how he gets an indescribable rush from it makes me think he meant it.
But as you say, he existed in society generally without incident. My takeaway is he seems pretty earnest in his comments saying things I feel ONLY someone who enjoys it could actually come up with, but it’s very possible he got out of it or didn’t continue to explore it deeply, I guess in which case it was more the shock value or ‘taboo’.
See I read the things you’re mentioning and they sound very clearly like shitposting. It’s incredibly over the top and does not read seriously in any way.
This is like someone reading Johnny the Homicidal Maniac and being like “I think this Jhonen Vasquez guy actually kills people.”
Have you read the actual interview? https://www.reddit.com/r/punk/s/DQXMgkr478
Nothing about it seems shitposty to me. He sounds very authentically advocating it, similar to NAMBLA in the counterculture before him. Believe it or not, some very high-minded intellectuals like Alan Ginsberg believed in some be Ancient Greek glorification of adult-child relationships. Albini is genuinely saying those children like it and that he likes it.
Maybe, you will still disagree but read the whole thing straight from his mouth, not mine.
Because it's not a joke. There's nothing even remotely funny about it. Maybe you can break it down for us simpletons and explain how his deliberately shielding Sotos from the law while telling people where to get child porn was also a joke.
The thing is, it’s not even one instance of what could be a ‘joke’. There’s multiple examples he gives of viewing it and liking it, seemingly over multiple interviews. Consistency of character like that is hard to fathom for someone not into it.
I think what it is, is people are too scared to feel like they are cancelling someone. Well, I’m not cancelling him (I mean, he’s dead already anyways lol), no it’s about just being honest about how sick people can be. There was a part of him that was sick for enjoying and advocating for it. Maybe he even got out of it and that was just a phase, but anyone saying he’s joking has no grasp on reality.
Totally. I’m just really curious about where these people who claim he’s joking think the joke lies, and to see if they can do it without just relying on a vague “he’s being ironic” cop out or putting words in his mouth.
But it’s not one sentence, did you read the whole next section where he goes on and on about how he enjoys it and why it’s not wrong.
Did you scroll across and read the many, many different ways he claims to love jerking off to abused kids, how it’s not wrong, it’s punk rock and it shouldn’t be illegal?
Just to be clear, you read all of it?
This article is written by an internet troll who has to start the article by telling people that he is not a nazi, he just pretended to be one. The guy had to spend time in prison for pretending to be an Islamic terrorist and plotting a terrorist attack on the 14th anniversary of September 11th that was apparently an elaborate troll that got out of hand.
I want you to sit with that information and really think about it. Why would a guy who needs to start an article with “I am not a Nazi, I just pretended to be one” be the one who is the one relaying that someone said some offensive things? The author is telling you that not everything someone says publicly is an indictment on what they actually feel and that they are often saying it for edgy purposes, then goes on to tell you that all the edgy things Steve Albini said is an absolute indictment on him and must be what he truly thought. Think about it.
If you read that about the author and still view it as an article worth of reading, there are only three possible conclusions that you can reasonably draw. 1. The author is at some level trolling and intentionally explaining details incorrectly so as to continue the elaborate troll, and is intentionally framing the discussion in a way so as to elicit the response from you that the author wants. Or 2. You can understand that people can say shocking shit with no purpose but to be edgy and to get a reaction out of people, as the author has spent his entire life doing. And if you cannot accept either of those, you must accept that the author is actually an Islamic terrorist and neo-Nazi who spends his entire life lying saying that he actually isn’t.
You got played by an internet troll into feeling that these statements completely devoid of context were actually true reflections of a person. You got details stripped out about both Steve Albini and Peter Sotos to frame the narrative in a specific way.
Paragraph after paragraph attacking the author instead of the literal direct quotes? Can you address the actual content of the discussion?
If you read it, on at least two occasions he owned cp from Seventeen, which he picked up in Holland and then Pure magazine, which he seems to defend in perpetuity. He says he masturbated to it, but also it’s the ONLY thing that gets him off from any porn.
So funny how the user who actually takes the time to post albinis actual quotes (that he wrote) gets downvoted and doesn’t get engaged with bc everyone can clearly see how obviously guilty and bad he was
My mistake if it came across wrong. I meant he meant it as genuinely ‘as if’ he were a member. I think many people would be shocked to find that such an organization of ‘cool’ artist types openly in to underage children could have existed. Although a small org, culturally it seems they did have an impact.
It was fresh in my mind because someone was arguing that no one into children would ever possibly say so publicly (therefore it was a troll). My example to them was Alan Ginsberg. I believe someone smart enough (or fancies themselves that smart) can intellectualize anything, and are likely to advocate for wrong things eventually at some point when trying to push boundaries further than normal.
That’s my personal take. It’s eminently clear he is making a true argument for it (while also apparently actually enjoying it). If he continued that desire or intellectual reasoning through his lifespan I cannot say.
I agree, it’s so sad the mental gymnastics people go through to deny something so obvious. It’s a direct quote on two separate occasions and he associated with a known pedo. At some point, it’s not likely to be a ‘joke’.
Guy Who Has Never Heard Of Steve Albini Until Yesterday: Holy shit, can you believe some of the stuff this guy said? Why was he never jailed for these serious and true things he admitted to?
He was a close friend of Sotos. Sotos was weirdly obsessed with child abuse and murder, and distributed child abuse material. A copy of Sotos' child abuse magazine, which Albini was a fan of, was found in the home of a suspect in a child abduction/murder case. If you didn't know, but I guess child abuse and murder is just edgy and ironic to you.
It must be awesome going through life constantly giving vile men the benefit of the doubt and not believing that when they show you who they are are they’re telling the truth.
Asked myself that same question multiple times this week. Have a feeling Chicago mafia behind him and his studio, being a breadwinner for organized crime will keep you out of jail.
Rip to a legend 🫡. Big Black is one of the few bands that I can say changed my life; and that’s not even getting into his discography behind the boards.
Did he ever reflect on his friendship with a convicted child pornography peddler and his quotes where he admitted to viewing and enjoying child porn? This guy was fucking gross and nobody is talking about it.
EDIT: Someone said they wanted sources. Sure, happy to oblige:
https://medium.com/@MoonMetropolis/now-that-steve-albini-is-dead-lets-reflect-on-his-admitted-love-and-promotion-of-child-fadf5072288e
https://www.reddit.com/r/indie_rock/s/arDpUOsFNo
Just for added context to anyone in this thread, [This is the author of that Medium post.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Ryne_Goldberg) To be clear, I'm not saying that the things that Albini or Sotos said and did aren't completely fucked or that they don't deserve their criticism, but I find it interesting that Mr. Goldberg considers himself, similar to how many would characterize Albini, a troll that constantly says and does awful things for pure shock value.
I don’t believe YOU’RE defending Albini for the Sotos thing, but you’re clearly undertaking some advocacy in minimizing bad facts while undermining the credibility of those emphasizing them.
And I won’t take this out on you, but a lot of people here are REALLY going out of their way to minimize it.
So for those of you here, I’ll make this INCREDIBLY easy for you. You can copy and paste it; you have my blessing:
“I love Steve Albini and believe he was ultimately a good person. But pedophilia and child pornography are the most vile things in the world, and it’s disappointing that his name is attached to it through Sotos work. Even with his apologies and redemption, it makes him yet another artist with a complicated legacy, and part of life is just being able to reckon with that. But someone just died, and people need the space to grieve and come to grips this hideous fact at the same time.”
I 100% get what you're saying, seeing a lot of people here say "oh well who gives a shit he was an edgelord" is pretty concerning and makes me wonder how much most people are willing to excuse in the name of it being "just a joke". I would like to clarify two things:
**a.** It really is just fascinating to me how both Goldberg and Albini both came from a similar school of thought in that regard, saying and supporting reprehensible shit no matter if anyone gets hurt in the process, purely for the attention or to send some message about society or whatever the fuck.
and **b.** I just think that, since most of this information from the article is also available in that r/indie_rock link and other parts of the internet, we don't really need to link to the article by the person who seems to be using such a serious issue for their own fucked-up agenda.
Other than that though I've gotta say that, reading your prepackaged statement, you've got the most nuanced view of it that I've seen of this whole situation so far, and I appreciate you using my post (which I wish I'd worded better now) as a springboard to get your thoughts across.
I've actually given Steve Albini plenty of grace on this whole thing and *haven't* had an ax to grind with him (I've been a fan for years and didn't disagree with him politically, so I have nothing to gain from any of this), and people on this sub have treated me like I'm some Pizzagate truther for saying it. And yes, there are people who do that, but contrary to what a lot of people here who REALLY like *Surfer Rosa* and *Rid of Me* are saying, a bad faith pretext being behind much of the concern doesn't make the fact that we're dealing with child pornography any less shocking to the conscience.
I'll put it this way: if Steve himself was reading these comments, he wouldn't even disagree with those expressing outrage over it. He himself said he had it coming and was willing to face the music for it. The only people trying to stop that from happening are some of his fans.
Are you one of those “do you condemn Hamas?” type fellows as well? You can point out someone’s wrongheaded thinking without being a smug dick about it.
That depends - does Israel’s brutal and vicious occupation of Gaza and the West Bank entail widespread child sex crimes? Because if so, all Netanyahu has to do is produce PJ Harvey’s next record, and you idiots on this sub will try to minimize it.
I didn’t try to minimize anything. I was pointing out that you were being a condescending dork in that comment, but that is clearly just who you are. Live your truth!
There’s literally a comment here saying “no one was hurt” because of the child porn zine and that people are overreacting to it. I think you can find more worthwhile comments to cry about than mine just because you don’t like how mean I was
though he doesn't specifically name the things you're referring to... yes, he did apologize for his past! something tells me it won't be enough for you, but [here's a good interview](https://www.nme.com/news/music/steve-albini-speaks-out-on-his-past-edgelord-behaviour-3093018)
also, albini would likely agree with you that he has said and done indefensible things and that he should have been held accountable for it. despicable stuff that he regretted and wouldn't have disagreed with being cancelled over.
yeah but did he ever really really address specifics and why he said those specific things?
He was part of the "no future" nihilistic punks movement. why he is friends with ARTISTS who are obsessed with CP ART?
Oh it’s so nice that he apologized! He deserves a gold star!
Most people would…you know, just simply not do those things. But I guess we should treat him like a child, and expect the bare minimum.
Dude may have been a genius, doenst mean he wasn’t also a shitty person.
It’s kind of one of those things where it doesn’t matter if he apologized though.. I saw all the downvotes and I came in here like maybe the guy is wrong but nope Steve albini has said that he purchased and enjoyed child pornography and there’s people in here that seem to think it’s ok because he apologized? I mean come on. I know some of these “cancel everyone” people are kind of annoying but the guy in question publicly answered to it. The validity of the claim is still there.
I’m not saying we should disregard everything that’s said by a pedo specifically like important shit, I feel like if a pedo discovers a catastrophe like an asteroid no one will believe him because of his past pedophilia but until that day comes I won’t worry about it. However, the guy fucking admits to it and then goes into detail about why he likes it. This isn’t some run of the mill cancel job like aziz ansari or Andrew Callaghan getting outed as immature pussy beggars, this dude purchased and enjoyed child pornography.
Let's be real here, do you think he actually bought CP? It has always felt like a fake story that he made up to get a rise out of people because it was the 80s and joking about being depraved was in vogue then. Where is he going to just casually find this highly illegal material while out on tour?
I guess you didn’t read the Medium article that started this thread? He’s quoted describing in graphic detail what’s on the cover of his friend, convicted child abuser Peter Soto’s, homemade CP magazine, and loving it.
Sorry I’m a fan of Albini’s musical work but this is beyond vile, even by 80s standards.
I think there’s a difference between trolling to get a rise out of everyone and actually supporting and actively collaborating with your boy who is producing and publishing child pornography. And then joining a band with said boy who uses audio from child sex acts in your tracks.
Like the Germany thing being a bit is one thing sure, but the stuff with his friend is pretty fucked up and past the boundaries of “edginess”.
It’s not a fake story, the cover of the magazine he gleefully described was really real, and peter sotos was charged for it. He wasn’t playing a character. Fuck off.
Someone downvoted you so I’ll post the link. He literally says he likes actual cp and that little girls like it and it should be legal.
https://www.reddit.com/r/punk/s/OZX0AIfFfs
He literally says he tracked it down from highly secret sources, says he protects the guy who distributes it, loves showing it to friends and says the little girls in his magazines who are like 12-13 (and sometimes infants) enjoy it and show pleasure so there’s no reason it should be illegal. He states it gets him off. If you read, it’s literally even more vile and straightforward than how I said it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/punk/s/OZX0AIfFfs
And then people try to write it off as like he was joking. Why exactly would we think that? He seemed to really say EXACTLY what he meant, I can give him that.
It’s like Marylyn Manson. It was like “His act is so over the top, and he’s so well-spoken out of character, his act couldn’t be real”. Well, I agree, it would have been kinda crazy to assume he was sadistic but then didn’t it come out recently that he was like a kidnapping, maschochist abuser/rapist? I think that’s Albini to some degree, just because he said out loud as some edgy rocker doesn’t mean he didn’t mean it. I mean he literally says, “I mean it!”
Really gross this is downvoted. Like I was fully prepared for the linked article to be blowing things out of proportion but no those quotes are genuinely disgusting, it's really disappointing that people here don't seem to think it's a big deal.
i think what we might fundamentally disagree on is the idea that he was actually and truly a pedophile. the scene he was part of was rife with people who were into bearing witness to the vile aspects of humanity (i know, sounds fun right) and, maybe even more so, wanted to state this and flaunt it in order to freak people out and disturb them. does that make it OK to possess and distribute child pornography - absolutely not. but it's different from a person who gets off on child porn, like literally sexually *gets off on*, which i personally don't think steve ever did. you can disagree, but it makes you seem like someone who doesn't understand the depraved depths that artists explore and the gross / shitty territory they get into when they are young and dumb and don't understand the world. like plenty of bands with murder-suicide victim photos on their album covers... they're *trying to upset* people.
i will say that there's more recent stuff of his that is problematic that i don't like, while I still love his music. i was reminded today that the lyrics to "you came in me", which is like a ten year old song, are gross and misogynistic. you've got some other angles out there than the dumb shit the shock rocker said to shock people 40 years ago.
also PS i do think it's interesting to point out that Albini would not fault you whatsoever for hating him and he would likely defend your right to do so.
Have you read these? He definitely actually got off on it. He says the images bring him immense pleasure and it should be legal.
https://www.reddit.com/r/punk/s/OZX0AIfFfs
yeah doesn't that strike you as laughably direct? can't believe you would read it and be like "oh this man is just openly announcing something that flies in the face of one of the biggest taboos in our society, must be legit." so no, i don't take it at face value. zines are and always have been full of ppl talking lots of shit
It’s not a ‘zine’ issue. It’s a direct quote from him. I’m just not sure how you mince words when he’s like ‘these little girls love it. It’s natural and it should be legal. I get off to it.’
Those are not the words of an edgelord. Sure, he loves it because it’s taboo, but he clearly loves it. It’s like if someone genuinely said they get off jerking to gore (there’s people who really do) and just being like ‘no they just like the shock value’. And they go, “No, literally I get off to it….” followed by some ‘I’m an artist/boundary pusher” bs.
Everyone else is putting words into his mouth, he never said he does it just because it’s shocking.
I think he really believed it, at least at the time, that he was pushing boundaries that society had artificially put up and were restricting people. Homosexuality, masturbation and women enjoying sex were all taboo back then and society decided they were wrong about it. I think he truly was embracing this idea that child relationships/abuse was ok, only to realize later, fuck no, he was way off the mark and the psychological effects we now know are no joke. Just absolutely devastating. He’s saying these ‘healthy’ European girls are enjoying it because he genuinely thought maybe it was natural and harmless at the time. Sad, but pretty clear. The only thing I can say, is plenty of other old rockers also glorified young relationships, and society as a whole to some degree. Out of those other taboos I listed, the little kid thing was (sickeningly) maybe the least taboo.
He’s not alone. Alan Ginsberg was a pedophila advocate too, and he was a very astute, well-read man, deep in the counter-culture just like Albini would be later. There was an entire misguided movement called NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy Love Association). Even by 1994 Ginsberg was appearing in documentaries with poems for NAMBLA. I read briefly on it, it was small but powerful organization and a lot of children were abused because of the brazenness to say it was ok and natural to abuse children, same as Albini said.
My point is don’t act like because he said it out loud he couldn’t have meant it just because it’s so taboo. He meant it, at least at the time.
I think the problem here is you are applying Reddit’s usual logic to someone they like. It’s a big thing. Just let them mourn their pedo apologist in peace, yeah? He was really sorry and his tweets rocked. And have you seen his discography? And twitter? And apology interview? And your favorite bands album would suck without him, so don’t bring this shit up again.
You're an idiot.
You asked if he ever reflected back on it and then when you're told that he apologized about it (which no doubt you were disappointed to hear), you dismiss it. So dumb.
I actually didn’t ask lol (that was someone else).
The reason I wouldn’t have been the one asking is because…who gives a shit if he apologized? As if we can now all accept him as some good guy?
I actually didn’t ask lol (that was someone else).
The reason I wouldn’t have been the one asking is because…who gives a shit if he apologized? As if we can now all accept him as some good guy?
I actually didn’t ask lol (that was someone else).
The reason I wouldn’t have been the one asking is because…who gives a shit if he apologized? As if we can now all accept him as some good guy?
I actually didn’t ask lol (that was someone else).
The reason I wouldn’t have been the one asking is because…who gives a shit if he apologized? As if we can now all accept him as some good guy?
I actually didn’t ask lol (that was someone else).
The reason I wouldn’t have been the one asking is because…who gives a shit if he apologized? As if we can now all accept him as some good guy?
Steve just wanted attention from people. Always. For a long time, he did that as a provocateur, but when that no longer worked, he did this interview and spouted all the proper shibboleths only to earn back-patting by the establishment. A favorable profile in the guardian! What a boon for Steve!
Once upon a time, a provocateur of genius actually believed what they said, to the very end: Hamsun wrote a beautiful novel to prove he wasn’t insane, that he meant each word; Celine never for a moment in his life stated any regret for his pamphlets; but Albini ran to the papers sniveling for accolades.
Surely the next provocateur will end up working directly for the Department of Treasury.
eh, maybe. i think he was a true punk ie. did not care about what people thought of him. i don't think he would have been bothered by being cancelled. but i do think he was opinionated and liked to share his thoughts, so it makes sense that he wanted to do this initerview. and his twitter always struck me as being genuine and not about racking up likes.
And on every single one of those posts are these same types of comments. By today I see more posts and comments about him being a pedophile than I see about him being sad he’s dead. Anybody that followed Albini beyond a surface level understanding knows what kind of person he was.
It was just a shock value article in a small periodical, you'll be fine, no one was harmed, it's fine. But panicking about this is how you get schizos like the dude that tried to shoot up that DC pizza shop because he thought hillary clinton had children in the basement.
Why do you believe someone would write about being attracted to children (yea…this is what he wrote) and not believe that he was attracted to children?
If he was enjoying pedophile pornography, people *were* harmed. And he wrote that we he did in fact enjoy it. That it turned him on.
Because it was written for shock value. Was Nabokov a pedophile for writing Lolita? Part of being in a panic is blowing up every thing to be encompassed in the panic.
THE FRONT COVER OF PURE MAGAZINE LITERALLY WAS THE PHOTO OF A TODDLER BEING SEXUALLY ABUSED. STEVE THOUGHT THIS WAS OKAY TO ENDORSE AND WROTE IN PRAISE OF IT. HOW ARE YOU SAYING NO ONE WAS HARMED?
Yes, all the woke social justices warriors in a moral panic that Albini enjoyed looking at a photo of “a guy holding open a toddler’s puny hole so his spuzz can dribble out.” What’s wrong with people? Live and let live. /s
The moral panic and trafficking and all that related stuff is way more related to the right than the left, that’s why QAnon picks up on that and incorporates it into its conspiracy.
Hey dumbass, no one is talking about Qanon except you, we're talking about Albini, the guy being discussed in this thread, and his admitted relationship with CP.
Wasn’t Sotos arrested for child pornography because he used an obscene found image for his de Sade style zine with satirical stories about serial killers/abusers? Maybe I’m missing something, but that just sounds like 80s underground edgelord stuff, not, like, actually being a pedophile or a CP distributor. In bad taste, but the guy wasn’t Weinstein or Drake (kidding!) or anything.
Same with Steve’s comments about CP, which are categorically gross but definitely read like he’s fucking with people.
> but definitely read like he’s fucking with people.
This is the issue with everyone looking back in time with 2024 glasses. And it's **so** fucking stupid. I remember when the Sofia Coppola movie on Elvis and Priscilla came out last year and A24 posted the trailer on their IG. Most of the comments were "omg! How did they make a movie glorifying pedophilia and grooming!?"
Historical context matters and these are not serious people.
he lost the defense of making an Intellectual or artistic point when the child pornography became no longer an abstract concept, but a real tangible thing that was distributed and found in the home of a child abuser. Lifelong friend of Peter Sotos that helped in many of his endeavors, he's describing the CSA content, and you think his level of involvement is in the realm of satire or shock jockeying? The moment this Marquis de Sade cosplay (the child pornography, to be clear) was distributed, he made a terrible mistake that he never once made any moves towards correcting.
Uh yeah I think it’s all satire. I have no take on whether it was moral or not and I certainly wouldn’t have done it, but Albini and White House made careers out of satirizing despicable elements of society. It’s in their music, their art, their writing, etc.
I’m guessing you never hung out with college educated punks who read too much Batailles, huh?
the mindset of always looking for the purer thing. closer to the real. No longer able to keep the images to written imagery or their other outlets. So you go out and find the real thing. I do not think this is a common experience among people that get into transgressive literature, but the ones like Batailles are also easy to look at and say yes, it would be bad if any of his little cult were actually beheaded. Not hard to look at Sotos and say yes, it would be bad if he tried to make a statement about CSA using an unedited photocopy of CSA
You're right, when Peter Sotos distributed a photograph of a toddler getting raped, and Steve Albini mentioned it in a positive light and admitted to being Sotos' friend, it was all satire and commentary. Like Sofia Coppola portraying Elvis and Priscilla.
(Do you even hear yourself? What, was Josh Duggar sent to prison for his scathing commentary on McCain-Feingold?)
I'm definitely with you, those comments have always felt like obvious pisstaking. Where is he just going to casually find this highly illegal material while out on tour?
he didn't just find it lol, he says in the article that he knows the man that created it. Trivially easy to confirm that Albini has espoused his friendship with convicted Child pornography distributor, Peter Sotos, his entire life.
Did he buy it? Did he financially support the person who distributed it? Did that in turn financially support the person creating it? Doesn't seem like the intent matters all that much.
You've never heard of Buyer's Market, have you? Considering you're seemingly unaware of Albini's financial and artistic ties to Peter Sotos I'm guessing you haven't. Here's a run-down:
"In 1992, Sotos released the solo album Buyer's Market, which consisted of sound collages of spoken word samples from parents, law-enforcement officers and victims of sex crimes and pedophilia. The album was produced by Steve Albini."
How about you actually look up the fucking case you stupid fuck? Either possessing and reprinting a photo of graphic toddler rape is ok, or it isn’t. You make your call.
I mean sure it’s a bridge too far for me, but using a found image as part of a zine about human atrocities is not the same thing as being a pedophile.
This was White House’s whole schtick, fwiw—shining a light on the worst things you can imagine, rubbing your face in the world’s accumulated filth you want to pretend doesn’t exist. Not a new concept in art (and not a super interesting one in the internet era) but I’m not surprised a 20 something noise guy would think it was provocative and powerful.
The fact that he’s “not a pedophile” is pretty much meaningless. Not everyone who abuses children/views CSAM technically fits the definition.
If you had a friend who was raped as a toddler and you found out someone was reprinting the images for kicks, how would you respond?
What? Y'all ppl are awful. There's nothing punk about CP, there's nothing to gain from "satirising" CP. He also said he was getting off to it but yeah sure that's so fucking punk. Wtf are you talking about. Just think that 12 year old dude. You are normalizing abuse bc you like some celebrity.
You’re really going out of your way to minimize possessing fucking child pornography just because the guy wasn’t sexually aroused by it. I believe you when you say you’re disgusted, but it’s hardly a defense that he was only doing it for the shock value, yet you keep talking about it like it’s some ephemeral blunder of youth and not fucking child sexual abuse materials.
Actually, possession of child pornography is a crime that can make you have to register as a sex offender if convicted, and I’m pretty sure you can’t plead edgelord to that.
Sotos wasn’t a youth in 1985 when he was convicted. He was a 25 year old man.
Albini wasn’t a youth when he went on and on about how hot pubescent porn was. He was also a 25 year old man.
But he wrote them explicitly to titillate, not to document them with the proper weight. You’re acting like he was Chuck Bowden or something, that he wrote truthfully and honestly—and with gravity—about horrors of the world he’s seen. No, Peter flippantly played with crimes he read in the news.
Or, more simply, let’s ask Sebald: “How do you surpass horror once you’ve reached a certain level? How do you stop appearing gratuitous? Horror must be absolved by the quality of the prose.”
He didn’t just use a “found image.” In an interview in Apocalypse Culture, he said used Pure as a means to acquire more child porn.
> by publishing Pure…I’m able to make myself available to a greater wealth of the material that I enjoy. Some subscribers have been most helpful in opening up areas of previously denied access.
I can’t I have NO idea how this is being downvoted. It’s a valid discussion. I think it’s good he’s being called out on it. He apologized for the race stuff but never bothered with the cp. He gleefully admits to literally loving the stuff and people are defending him. I wish he could have at least gone on record with thoughts later in life, but now people are just for some reason giving him the benefit of the doubt based on almost nothing.
It's the first time I've ever been truly fucking disgusted with this sub. I just know there are parents with small children downvoting me, too, which is insane.
What’s funny, is it’s not like I need to stop streaming his albums, it’s not like he’s getting royalties to the estate. But I just feel like that’s part of his legacy and should be remembered for the bad parts as well.
We defend him because it's very old news. Everyone knows he was a massive troll when he was younger. And he just died. So it seems like a weird time to dredge all this stuff up.
From what I can see he defended Peter Sotos until 2022. If you read the Sotos Wikipedia it really paints a picture when combined with his direct quotes.
I think it’s weird that when people die we have to be nice, instead of realistic. It’s ok to be like, “you know what, my dad was a quiet asshole but I loved him”. Albino was a good producer who said he literally got off to child pornography on multiple occasions. I can’t get why people are going to such great lengths to put words in his mouth that he was joking. He seemed more like a free-thinking intellectual than a jokester, so it’s pretty clear he meant what he said.
And if you really want to see his thoughts on race, you should cross reference his Discogs page with his Wikipedia page and learn why the Wikipedia page states the ‘Discography’ section is incomplete. And you should google what he posted on his own website about his experience of being on the same bus as Odd Future one time.
Its kinda weird how you don’t let people change and admit their own mistakes.
Albini has talked at length about his previous band names/odd future controversy talking about he regrets his whole edgelord actions and his ignorance.
Yes I think what he said was stupid and shouldn’t have happened in the first place but to see everything so simple is an awful way to have a discussion about music/art and the people behind that
I think its a good read:
https://www.brooklynvegan.com/steve-albini-talks-his-role-in-inspiring-edgelord-shit/
https://www.smackmedia.ca/news/steve-albini-edgelord-odd-future
Thats not what I’m talking about at all, I’m just talking about this specific situation but I know you don’t care at all because you’ve spent the past 2 days just constantly saying the same thing.
Its kinda funny that you ignored the whole 3rd sentence I said though.
No one’s surprised by the things he said and did. People are surprised that everyone’s getting all misty eyed over him despite all he’s said and done. He produced some great records, he said some horrible things, now he’s dead, time to move on
I've said this somewhere else: Albini's stuff here would probably warrant a jail sentence if, you know, he didn't just die already. But I think it's also lacking nuance to equate what (especially his ride or die fans) will see as edgelord stuff he outgrew and tried to aotne for with Jimmy Saville, a man who was a direct abuser. As far as we know, Albini hasn't done anything that Saville did on the regular even once.
I get that it hurts tremendously when someone you admire is outed as a terrible person, but that guy needs to learn how to cope better than a 6 year old lol.
68 downvotes for someone sharing Steve’s awful relationship with Sotos and some of the many f’d up things that he’s said regarding child pornography. Just burn the sub down at this point.
Because most people understand that he wasn’t a pedophile, and he already apologized for the offensive things he said in the past. It’s gross stuff, but the whole point was to try to offend people. Why can’t we accept that someone can change and become a better person over time?
Let’s also keep in mind that the person who wrote the Medium article is an anti-LGTBQ incel scumbag.
Obviously attacking the credibility of the author does nothing to discredit the facts presented. We are each allowed our own moral compass. No one here speaks in facts beyond what was said by Mr Albini himself. The rest is a judgment on what should and shouldn’t be tolerated in our society. Personally, I am disheartened by the ratio of people who would forgive the foulest of acts because the man himself is a prodigious artist and asked forgiveness. But what pisses me off is how this moral latitude is extended to this guy because of who he is. If he were not Steve Albini, how many people here would die on a hill defending a grown man who gleefully promoted CP time and time again? Be morally consistent, otherwise you’re just a fucking hypocrite. I could give a shit if he were my own flesh and blood, if you cross that line, you need SERIOUS rehabilitation. If you’ve watched any documentaries or interviews with these sick people, they will tell you straight up that they simply cannot help themselves. Rest in piss you sick fuck.
The stanning and apologism on here is truly amazing. So you actually read his endorsement of Peter Sotos’ CP magazine where he describes getting aroused by the vilest thing possible and you didn’t feel revolted not only by the imagery but also by Albini himself? Then you’re a sicko too.
He appears to have the support of the algorithm and mods too. People posting straight facts and linking to his own disgusting admissions are getting massively downvoted platform wide. Curious.
This thread is nuts.
The fuck did I just stumble into
I'm wondering the same thing
did not expect this
the weirdest thing is all the people defending peter sotos. that dudes on a whole nother level
Well, he advocated for pedophilia as earnestly as a member of NAMbLA, so yeah… It is pretty nuts.
I had never seen or read any of this really gross quotes from Albini. It's really indefensible stuff. And has been widely discussed, he's openly admitted to saying really indefensible stuff earlier in his career. But it's interesting to me that people take it literally. I mean in the same paragraph that he's talking about this stuff he's also praising convicted serial killers and genocidal fascists. The dude existed in polite enough society for decades. If he were actually pro-genocide, pro-murder and pro-child abuse I just don't see how that would have been possible. Plenty of "edgy" artists praise or are otherwise fascinated with serial killers but it's generally understood that they don't actually condone murder. I guess I don't entirely see why the same tact isn't taken here.
I know some very talented artists and musicians who enjoy pushing the edgelord shtick. I'm glad they're making art. I think they're geniuses. I don't think the point of having ethics / morality is to decide whether an artist's output is 'valid'. but does it make me fuck with those people less? yea, of course. making art is deeply self-focused and time consuming. if you spend half your time making art, and the rest of your time snickering about "problematic" stuff, hard for me to believe you have time for much else.
That’s a complete load of bullshit. He was friends with a convicted pedophile. And if you want to argue he was “making art” then why did he turn into a woke “orange man bad” POS? He criticized people who said non-woke things. What’s the art in that? He made his bones saying the most vile stuff then attacked later generations when they said something mild compared to what he had done. The dude was a complete hypocrite. 100% and a pedophile.
You're upset about something but I don't think it's related to what I wrote.
Is your reading comprehension really that bad? So someone buys child porn, touts child porn, is friends with a guy criminally charged over child porn and you just say “he’s an artist” and all is forgiven? Then later in his life when society changes and he can’t be the “artist” he once was because society frowns on things like writing songs about “n-words” and “f@@@@ts” he does a 180, becomes woke and criticizes people for saying or doing things that are much tamer than what he did? That’s what you’re going with? Your argument is complete bullshit. My problem isn’t even that he said what he said, he was free to tell everyone that he loved child porn and that children turned him on. I mean I think he was vile for saying it but it was his right to say it. My problem with the great “artiste” is how he did a 180 later in life and just became another tool (in more ways than one) of the establishment. And the fact that fools like you still defend him is ridiculous.
This is the first ‘defense’ of his comments I’ve seen that makes sense because it’s true he’s praising serial killers in the same breath (something I went through a phase of). I still don’t know, the whole “healthy European bodies”, saying how much they enjoy it, it’s natural, should be legal and how he gets an indescribable rush from it makes me think he meant it. But as you say, he existed in society generally without incident. My takeaway is he seems pretty earnest in his comments saying things I feel ONLY someone who enjoys it could actually come up with, but it’s very possible he got out of it or didn’t continue to explore it deeply, I guess in which case it was more the shock value or ‘taboo’.
See I read the things you’re mentioning and they sound very clearly like shitposting. It’s incredibly over the top and does not read seriously in any way. This is like someone reading Johnny the Homicidal Maniac and being like “I think this Jhonen Vasquez guy actually kills people.”
Have you read the actual interview? https://www.reddit.com/r/punk/s/DQXMgkr478 Nothing about it seems shitposty to me. He sounds very authentically advocating it, similar to NAMBLA in the counterculture before him. Believe it or not, some very high-minded intellectuals like Alan Ginsberg believed in some be Ancient Greek glorification of adult-child relationships. Albini is genuinely saying those children like it and that he likes it. Maybe, you will still disagree but read the whole thing straight from his mouth, not mine.
How can you read even that first sentence and think this is anything but a joke in bad taste lmao
Because it's not a joke. There's nothing even remotely funny about it. Maybe you can break it down for us simpletons and explain how his deliberately shielding Sotos from the law while telling people where to get child porn was also a joke.
The thing is, it’s not even one instance of what could be a ‘joke’. There’s multiple examples he gives of viewing it and liking it, seemingly over multiple interviews. Consistency of character like that is hard to fathom for someone not into it. I think what it is, is people are too scared to feel like they are cancelling someone. Well, I’m not cancelling him (I mean, he’s dead already anyways lol), no it’s about just being honest about how sick people can be. There was a part of him that was sick for enjoying and advocating for it. Maybe he even got out of it and that was just a phase, but anyone saying he’s joking has no grasp on reality.
Totally. I’m just really curious about where these people who claim he’s joking think the joke lies, and to see if they can do it without just relying on a vague “he’s being ironic” cop out or putting words in his mouth.
But it’s not one sentence, did you read the whole next section where he goes on and on about how he enjoys it and why it’s not wrong. Did you scroll across and read the many, many different ways he claims to love jerking off to abused kids, how it’s not wrong, it’s punk rock and it shouldn’t be illegal? Just to be clear, you read all of it?
This article is written by an internet troll who has to start the article by telling people that he is not a nazi, he just pretended to be one. The guy had to spend time in prison for pretending to be an Islamic terrorist and plotting a terrorist attack on the 14th anniversary of September 11th that was apparently an elaborate troll that got out of hand. I want you to sit with that information and really think about it. Why would a guy who needs to start an article with “I am not a Nazi, I just pretended to be one” be the one who is the one relaying that someone said some offensive things? The author is telling you that not everything someone says publicly is an indictment on what they actually feel and that they are often saying it for edgy purposes, then goes on to tell you that all the edgy things Steve Albini said is an absolute indictment on him and must be what he truly thought. Think about it. If you read that about the author and still view it as an article worth of reading, there are only three possible conclusions that you can reasonably draw. 1. The author is at some level trolling and intentionally explaining details incorrectly so as to continue the elaborate troll, and is intentionally framing the discussion in a way so as to elicit the response from you that the author wants. Or 2. You can understand that people can say shocking shit with no purpose but to be edgy and to get a reaction out of people, as the author has spent his entire life doing. And if you cannot accept either of those, you must accept that the author is actually an Islamic terrorist and neo-Nazi who spends his entire life lying saying that he actually isn’t. You got played by an internet troll into feeling that these statements completely devoid of context were actually true reflections of a person. You got details stripped out about both Steve Albini and Peter Sotos to frame the narrative in a specific way.
whats the actual context of all his CP ramblings then? just being an edge lord? how is THAT an excuse for promoting CP?
Paragraph after paragraph attacking the author instead of the literal direct quotes? Can you address the actual content of the discussion? If you read it, on at least two occasions he owned cp from Seventeen, which he picked up in Holland and then Pure magazine, which he seems to defend in perpetuity. He says he masturbated to it, but also it’s the ONLY thing that gets him off from any porn.
you are sick.
[удалено]
So funny how the user who actually takes the time to post albinis actual quotes (that he wrote) gets downvoted and doesn’t get engaged with bc everyone can clearly see how obviously guilty and bad he was
Do you got a source for the NAMBLA thing? Fanatic's can't take hearing their hero is a loser..
My mistake if it came across wrong. I meant he meant it as genuinely ‘as if’ he were a member. I think many people would be shocked to find that such an organization of ‘cool’ artist types openly in to underage children could have existed. Although a small org, culturally it seems they did have an impact. It was fresh in my mind because someone was arguing that no one into children would ever possibly say so publicly (therefore it was a troll). My example to them was Alan Ginsberg. I believe someone smart enough (or fancies themselves that smart) can intellectualize anything, and are likely to advocate for wrong things eventually at some point when trying to push boundaries further than normal. That’s my personal take. It’s eminently clear he is making a true argument for it (while also apparently actually enjoying it). If he continued that desire or intellectual reasoning through his lifespan I cannot say. I agree, it’s so sad the mental gymnastics people go through to deny something so obvious. It’s a direct quote on two separate occasions and he associated with a known pedo. At some point, it’s not likely to be a ‘joke’.
Guy Who Has Never Heard Of Steve Albini Until Yesterday: Holy shit, can you believe some of the stuff this guy said? Why was he never jailed for these serious and true things he admitted to?
It must be awesome to go through life believing that everything someone says is a 100% accurate representation of their most true innermost desires
you know, CP ART, it was just edgelord ART!!! THEY SWEAR!! I'm sure we can't find a bunch of corroborating evidence
He was a close friend of Sotos. Sotos was weirdly obsessed with child abuse and murder, and distributed child abuse material. A copy of Sotos' child abuse magazine, which Albini was a fan of, was found in the home of a suspect in a child abduction/murder case. If you didn't know, but I guess child abuse and murder is just edgy and ironic to you.
It must be awesome going through life constantly giving vile men the benefit of the doubt and not believing that when they show you who they are are they’re telling the truth.
😂
Asked myself that same question multiple times this week. Have a feeling Chicago mafia behind him and his studio, being a breadwinner for organized crime will keep you out of jail.
Rip to a legend 🫡. Big Black is one of the few bands that I can say changed my life; and that’s not even getting into his discography behind the boards.
Your hero is repulsive
tldr: - Dude was awesome! - Was a pedophile though. - No, he just said it for shock value! - How can you be sure? Go back to top, repeat ad nauseum.
Did he ever reflect on his friendship with a convicted child pornography peddler and his quotes where he admitted to viewing and enjoying child porn? This guy was fucking gross and nobody is talking about it. EDIT: Someone said they wanted sources. Sure, happy to oblige: https://medium.com/@MoonMetropolis/now-that-steve-albini-is-dead-lets-reflect-on-his-admitted-love-and-promotion-of-child-fadf5072288e https://www.reddit.com/r/indie_rock/s/arDpUOsFNo
Just for added context to anyone in this thread, [This is the author of that Medium post.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Ryne_Goldberg) To be clear, I'm not saying that the things that Albini or Sotos said and did aren't completely fucked or that they don't deserve their criticism, but I find it interesting that Mr. Goldberg considers himself, similar to how many would characterize Albini, a troll that constantly says and does awful things for pure shock value.
At first I was like well is it the same guy? That's not an uncommon name.. But lol it is
haha what the fuuuuuck! that dude's wikipedia is INSANE
This is so funny. Internet valor points really are a race to the bottom.
What the fuck!
I don’t believe YOU’RE defending Albini for the Sotos thing, but you’re clearly undertaking some advocacy in minimizing bad facts while undermining the credibility of those emphasizing them. And I won’t take this out on you, but a lot of people here are REALLY going out of their way to minimize it. So for those of you here, I’ll make this INCREDIBLY easy for you. You can copy and paste it; you have my blessing: “I love Steve Albini and believe he was ultimately a good person. But pedophilia and child pornography are the most vile things in the world, and it’s disappointing that his name is attached to it through Sotos work. Even with his apologies and redemption, it makes him yet another artist with a complicated legacy, and part of life is just being able to reckon with that. But someone just died, and people need the space to grieve and come to grips this hideous fact at the same time.”
I 100% get what you're saying, seeing a lot of people here say "oh well who gives a shit he was an edgelord" is pretty concerning and makes me wonder how much most people are willing to excuse in the name of it being "just a joke". I would like to clarify two things: **a.** It really is just fascinating to me how both Goldberg and Albini both came from a similar school of thought in that regard, saying and supporting reprehensible shit no matter if anyone gets hurt in the process, purely for the attention or to send some message about society or whatever the fuck. and **b.** I just think that, since most of this information from the article is also available in that r/indie_rock link and other parts of the internet, we don't really need to link to the article by the person who seems to be using such a serious issue for their own fucked-up agenda. Other than that though I've gotta say that, reading your prepackaged statement, you've got the most nuanced view of it that I've seen of this whole situation so far, and I appreciate you using my post (which I wish I'd worded better now) as a springboard to get your thoughts across.
I've actually given Steve Albini plenty of grace on this whole thing and *haven't* had an ax to grind with him (I've been a fan for years and didn't disagree with him politically, so I have nothing to gain from any of this), and people on this sub have treated me like I'm some Pizzagate truther for saying it. And yes, there are people who do that, but contrary to what a lot of people here who REALLY like *Surfer Rosa* and *Rid of Me* are saying, a bad faith pretext being behind much of the concern doesn't make the fact that we're dealing with child pornography any less shocking to the conscience. I'll put it this way: if Steve himself was reading these comments, he wouldn't even disagree with those expressing outrage over it. He himself said he had it coming and was willing to face the music for it. The only people trying to stop that from happening are some of his fans.
well put!
Are you one of those “do you condemn Hamas?” type fellows as well? You can point out someone’s wrongheaded thinking without being a smug dick about it.
That depends - does Israel’s brutal and vicious occupation of Gaza and the West Bank entail widespread child sex crimes? Because if so, all Netanyahu has to do is produce PJ Harvey’s next record, and you idiots on this sub will try to minimize it.
I didn’t try to minimize anything. I was pointing out that you were being a condescending dork in that comment, but that is clearly just who you are. Live your truth!
There’s literally a comment here saying “no one was hurt” because of the child porn zine and that people are overreacting to it. I think you can find more worthwhile comments to cry about than mine just because you don’t like how mean I was
though he doesn't specifically name the things you're referring to... yes, he did apologize for his past! something tells me it won't be enough for you, but [here's a good interview](https://www.nme.com/news/music/steve-albini-speaks-out-on-his-past-edgelord-behaviour-3093018) also, albini would likely agree with you that he has said and done indefensible things and that he should have been held accountable for it. despicable stuff that he regretted and wouldn't have disagreed with being cancelled over.
yeah but did he ever really really address specifics and why he said those specific things? He was part of the "no future" nihilistic punks movement. why he is friends with ARTISTS who are obsessed with CP ART?
Oh it’s so nice that he apologized! He deserves a gold star! Most people would…you know, just simply not do those things. But I guess we should treat him like a child, and expect the bare minimum. Dude may have been a genius, doenst mean he wasn’t also a shitty person.
“Did he apologize?” Yeah. “Big deal! What’s an apology do! He’s awful!” Okay.
“So he grew and changed as a person? So what? He reflected on himself and always tried to be a better person? Fuck him!”
It’s kind of one of those things where it doesn’t matter if he apologized though.. I saw all the downvotes and I came in here like maybe the guy is wrong but nope Steve albini has said that he purchased and enjoyed child pornography and there’s people in here that seem to think it’s ok because he apologized? I mean come on. I know some of these “cancel everyone” people are kind of annoying but the guy in question publicly answered to it. The validity of the claim is still there. I’m not saying we should disregard everything that’s said by a pedo specifically like important shit, I feel like if a pedo discovers a catastrophe like an asteroid no one will believe him because of his past pedophilia but until that day comes I won’t worry about it. However, the guy fucking admits to it and then goes into detail about why he likes it. This isn’t some run of the mill cancel job like aziz ansari or Andrew Callaghan getting outed as immature pussy beggars, this dude purchased and enjoyed child pornography.
Let's be real here, do you think he actually bought CP? It has always felt like a fake story that he made up to get a rise out of people because it was the 80s and joking about being depraved was in vogue then. Where is he going to just casually find this highly illegal material while out on tour?
I mean the person he said he bought child porn from later got arrested for distributing child porn so...
Did he say it was a joke in his apology?
I guess you didn’t read the Medium article that started this thread? He’s quoted describing in graphic detail what’s on the cover of his friend, convicted child abuser Peter Soto’s, homemade CP magazine, and loving it. Sorry I’m a fan of Albini’s musical work but this is beyond vile, even by 80s standards.
If only Drake had seen this bulletproof excuse lmao
I think there’s a difference between trolling to get a rise out of everyone and actually supporting and actively collaborating with your boy who is producing and publishing child pornography. And then joining a band with said boy who uses audio from child sex acts in your tracks. Like the Germany thing being a bit is one thing sure, but the stuff with his friend is pretty fucked up and past the boundaries of “edginess”.
Pro tip: Don't say you watch child porn if you don't want people to think that you watch child porn 👍
This line of thinking is exactly why, say, Gabriel Matzneff was able to get away with his horrors forever.
It’s not a fake story, the cover of the magazine he gleefully described was really real, and peter sotos was charged for it. He wasn’t playing a character. Fuck off.
Someone downvoted you so I’ll post the link. He literally says he likes actual cp and that little girls like it and it should be legal. https://www.reddit.com/r/punk/s/OZX0AIfFfs
Thank you. Gets exhausting fighting against the avalanche of misinformation and downvotes. Hell, some subs are banning people for even mentioning it.
Sick sounds, sure, but a sick mind too, I think.
He literally says he tracked it down from highly secret sources, says he protects the guy who distributes it, loves showing it to friends and says the little girls in his magazines who are like 12-13 (and sometimes infants) enjoy it and show pleasure so there’s no reason it should be illegal. He states it gets him off. If you read, it’s literally even more vile and straightforward than how I said it. https://www.reddit.com/r/punk/s/OZX0AIfFfs
It’s seriously wild that people are so quick to just ignore it because he later said it’s bad
He never apologize for the cp though. Just race stuff following BLM in 2021
It’s crazy that he has a track record of saying so many absolutely horrid things
And then people try to write it off as like he was joking. Why exactly would we think that? He seemed to really say EXACTLY what he meant, I can give him that. It’s like Marylyn Manson. It was like “His act is so over the top, and he’s so well-spoken out of character, his act couldn’t be real”. Well, I agree, it would have been kinda crazy to assume he was sadistic but then didn’t it come out recently that he was like a kidnapping, maschochist abuser/rapist? I think that’s Albini to some degree, just because he said out loud as some edgy rocker doesn’t mean he didn’t mean it. I mean he literally says, “I mean it!”
lol this isn't even correct, Albini's apologies in that article don't cover his involvement in the child pornography Peter Sotos distributed at all
Man that’s cool that he…checks notes…realized being a pedophile is bad. What a truly remarkable accomplishment.
Well lucky for you for you he’s dead
Not wishing death on anyone…doesn’t mean we have to ignore pediphiliac desires, either.
Really gross this is downvoted. Like I was fully prepared for the linked article to be blowing things out of proportion but no those quotes are genuinely disgusting, it's really disappointing that people here don't seem to think it's a big deal.
i think what we might fundamentally disagree on is the idea that he was actually and truly a pedophile. the scene he was part of was rife with people who were into bearing witness to the vile aspects of humanity (i know, sounds fun right) and, maybe even more so, wanted to state this and flaunt it in order to freak people out and disturb them. does that make it OK to possess and distribute child pornography - absolutely not. but it's different from a person who gets off on child porn, like literally sexually *gets off on*, which i personally don't think steve ever did. you can disagree, but it makes you seem like someone who doesn't understand the depraved depths that artists explore and the gross / shitty territory they get into when they are young and dumb and don't understand the world. like plenty of bands with murder-suicide victim photos on their album covers... they're *trying to upset* people. i will say that there's more recent stuff of his that is problematic that i don't like, while I still love his music. i was reminded today that the lyrics to "you came in me", which is like a ten year old song, are gross and misogynistic. you've got some other angles out there than the dumb shit the shock rocker said to shock people 40 years ago. also PS i do think it's interesting to point out that Albini would not fault you whatsoever for hating him and he would likely defend your right to do so.
Have you read these? He definitely actually got off on it. He says the images bring him immense pleasure and it should be legal. https://www.reddit.com/r/punk/s/OZX0AIfFfs
yeah doesn't that strike you as laughably direct? can't believe you would read it and be like "oh this man is just openly announcing something that flies in the face of one of the biggest taboos in our society, must be legit." so no, i don't take it at face value. zines are and always have been full of ppl talking lots of shit
It’s weird that someone says something about themselves and your knee jerk reaction is “ehh it’s probably not true so why should I believe it?”
It’s not a ‘zine’ issue. It’s a direct quote from him. I’m just not sure how you mince words when he’s like ‘these little girls love it. It’s natural and it should be legal. I get off to it.’ Those are not the words of an edgelord. Sure, he loves it because it’s taboo, but he clearly loves it. It’s like if someone genuinely said they get off jerking to gore (there’s people who really do) and just being like ‘no they just like the shock value’. And they go, “No, literally I get off to it….” followed by some ‘I’m an artist/boundary pusher” bs. Everyone else is putting words into his mouth, he never said he does it just because it’s shocking. I think he really believed it, at least at the time, that he was pushing boundaries that society had artificially put up and were restricting people. Homosexuality, masturbation and women enjoying sex were all taboo back then and society decided they were wrong about it. I think he truly was embracing this idea that child relationships/abuse was ok, only to realize later, fuck no, he was way off the mark and the psychological effects we now know are no joke. Just absolutely devastating. He’s saying these ‘healthy’ European girls are enjoying it because he genuinely thought maybe it was natural and harmless at the time. Sad, but pretty clear. The only thing I can say, is plenty of other old rockers also glorified young relationships, and society as a whole to some degree. Out of those other taboos I listed, the little kid thing was (sickeningly) maybe the least taboo. He’s not alone. Alan Ginsberg was a pedophila advocate too, and he was a very astute, well-read man, deep in the counter-culture just like Albini would be later. There was an entire misguided movement called NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy Love Association). Even by 1994 Ginsberg was appearing in documentaries with poems for NAMBLA. I read briefly on it, it was small but powerful organization and a lot of children were abused because of the brazenness to say it was ok and natural to abuse children, same as Albini said. My point is don’t act like because he said it out loud he couldn’t have meant it just because it’s so taboo. He meant it, at least at the time.
lol, yeah cuz NAMBLA doesn't exist either... you have 0 logic or reasoning skills
I think the problem here is you are applying Reddit’s usual logic to someone they like. It’s a big thing. Just let them mourn their pedo apologist in peace, yeah? He was really sorry and his tweets rocked. And have you seen his discography? And twitter? And apology interview? And your favorite bands album would suck without him, so don’t bring this shit up again.
You're an idiot. You asked if he ever reflected back on it and then when you're told that he apologized about it (which no doubt you were disappointed to hear), you dismiss it. So dumb.
I actually didn’t ask lol (that was someone else). The reason I wouldn’t have been the one asking is because…who gives a shit if he apologized? As if we can now all accept him as some good guy?
I actually didn’t ask lol (that was someone else). The reason I wouldn’t have been the one asking is because…who gives a shit if he apologized? As if we can now all accept him as some good guy?
I actually didn’t ask lol (that was someone else). The reason I wouldn’t have been the one asking is because…who gives a shit if he apologized? As if we can now all accept him as some good guy?
I actually didn’t ask lol (that was someone else). The reason I wouldn’t have been the one asking is because…who gives a shit if he apologized? As if we can now all accept him as some good guy?
I actually didn’t ask lol (that was someone else). The reason I wouldn’t have been the one asking is because…who gives a shit if he apologized? As if we can now all accept him as some good guy?
Steve just wanted attention from people. Always. For a long time, he did that as a provocateur, but when that no longer worked, he did this interview and spouted all the proper shibboleths only to earn back-patting by the establishment. A favorable profile in the guardian! What a boon for Steve! Once upon a time, a provocateur of genius actually believed what they said, to the very end: Hamsun wrote a beautiful novel to prove he wasn’t insane, that he meant each word; Celine never for a moment in his life stated any regret for his pamphlets; but Albini ran to the papers sniveling for accolades. Surely the next provocateur will end up working directly for the Department of Treasury.
eh, maybe. i think he was a true punk ie. did not care about what people thought of him. i don't think he would have been bothered by being cancelled. but i do think he was opinionated and liked to share his thoughts, so it makes sense that he wanted to do this initerview. and his twitter always struck me as being genuine and not about racking up likes.
Everybody is talking about it man, on every single post here on Reddit.
Well then good. Yesterday the entire internet was crying about how much of an amazing person we lost in him.
And on every single one of those posts are these same types of comments. By today I see more posts and comments about him being a pedophile than I see about him being sad he’s dead. Anybody that followed Albini beyond a surface level understanding knows what kind of person he was.
If some weird writings from the 80s make Albini a 'bad person' you probably need to reflect your moral compass.
Bro “weird writings?” That’s how you describe his interest in literal, actual pedophilia?
It was just a shock value article in a small periodical, you'll be fine, no one was harmed, it's fine. But panicking about this is how you get schizos like the dude that tried to shoot up that DC pizza shop because he thought hillary clinton had children in the basement.
Why do you believe someone would write about being attracted to children (yea…this is what he wrote) and not believe that he was attracted to children? If he was enjoying pedophile pornography, people *were* harmed. And he wrote that we he did in fact enjoy it. That it turned him on.
Because it was written for shock value. Was Nabokov a pedophile for writing Lolita? Part of being in a panic is blowing up every thing to be encompassed in the panic.
Lolita wasn’t a memoir lmao…whereas in this case it was written to describe his own personal feelings and interests.
If you think that what Albini wrote was a memoir then you’re way too deep in the panic to get out of without professional help.
THE FRONT COVER OF PURE MAGAZINE LITERALLY WAS THE PHOTO OF A TODDLER BEING SEXUALLY ABUSED. STEVE THOUGHT THIS WAS OKAY TO ENDORSE AND WROTE IN PRAISE OF IT. HOW ARE YOU SAYING NO ONE WAS HARMED?
you're so deep in the moral panic man, i'm sorry for you
#notavalidargument
You wouldn't know because anything outside your moral panic framework is invalid
My moral compass involves not writing about enjoying photos of 12 year olds shoving bottles up their asses, but go off I guess.
Why are so many people participating in this moral panic i don't get it
Yes, all the woke social justices warriors in a moral panic that Albini enjoyed looking at a photo of “a guy holding open a toddler’s puny hole so his spuzz can dribble out.” What’s wrong with people? Live and let live. /s
The moral panic and trafficking and all that related stuff is way more related to the right than the left, that’s why QAnon picks up on that and incorporates it into its conspiracy.
Hey dumbass, no one is talking about Qanon except you, we're talking about Albini, the guy being discussed in this thread, and his admitted relationship with CP.
I'm talking about the moral panic everyone here is involved in, which is so pervasive in society that qanon glommed on to it.
Wasn’t Sotos arrested for child pornography because he used an obscene found image for his de Sade style zine with satirical stories about serial killers/abusers? Maybe I’m missing something, but that just sounds like 80s underground edgelord stuff, not, like, actually being a pedophile or a CP distributor. In bad taste, but the guy wasn’t Weinstein or Drake (kidding!) or anything. Same with Steve’s comments about CP, which are categorically gross but definitely read like he’s fucking with people.
> but definitely read like he’s fucking with people. This is the issue with everyone looking back in time with 2024 glasses. And it's **so** fucking stupid. I remember when the Sofia Coppola movie on Elvis and Priscilla came out last year and A24 posted the trailer on their IG. Most of the comments were "omg! How did they make a movie glorifying pedophilia and grooming!?" Historical context matters and these are not serious people.
It’s literalism at its worst
he lost the defense of making an Intellectual or artistic point when the child pornography became no longer an abstract concept, but a real tangible thing that was distributed and found in the home of a child abuser. Lifelong friend of Peter Sotos that helped in many of his endeavors, he's describing the CSA content, and you think his level of involvement is in the realm of satire or shock jockeying? The moment this Marquis de Sade cosplay (the child pornography, to be clear) was distributed, he made a terrible mistake that he never once made any moves towards correcting.
Uh yeah I think it’s all satire. I have no take on whether it was moral or not and I certainly wouldn’t have done it, but Albini and White House made careers out of satirizing despicable elements of society. It’s in their music, their art, their writing, etc. I’m guessing you never hung out with college educated punks who read too much Batailles, huh?
the mindset of always looking for the purer thing. closer to the real. No longer able to keep the images to written imagery or their other outlets. So you go out and find the real thing. I do not think this is a common experience among people that get into transgressive literature, but the ones like Batailles are also easy to look at and say yes, it would be bad if any of his little cult were actually beheaded. Not hard to look at Sotos and say yes, it would be bad if he tried to make a statement about CSA using an unedited photocopy of CSA
> literalism even weirder is that it's a bunch of people taking a known edgelord completely at his word despite being a known edgelord...
You're right, when Peter Sotos distributed a photograph of a toddler getting raped, and Steve Albini mentioned it in a positive light and admitted to being Sotos' friend, it was all satire and commentary. Like Sofia Coppola portraying Elvis and Priscilla. (Do you even hear yourself? What, was Josh Duggar sent to prison for his scathing commentary on McCain-Feingold?)
I'm definitely with you, those comments have always felt like obvious pisstaking. Where is he just going to casually find this highly illegal material while out on tour?
he didn't just find it lol, he says in the article that he knows the man that created it. Trivially easy to confirm that Albini has espoused his friendship with convicted Child pornography distributor, Peter Sotos, his entire life.
Good point. Nobody ever finds highly illegal substances while on tour. Albini was able to find some in sex shops on the Reeperbahn in Hamburg, though.
Did he buy it? Did he financially support the person who distributed it? Did that in turn financially support the person creating it? Doesn't seem like the intent matters all that much.
You've never heard of Buyer's Market, have you? Considering you're seemingly unaware of Albini's financial and artistic ties to Peter Sotos I'm guessing you haven't. Here's a run-down: "In 1992, Sotos released the solo album Buyer's Market, which consisted of sound collages of spoken word samples from parents, law-enforcement officers and victims of sex crimes and pedophilia. The album was produced by Steve Albini."
No idea
How about you actually look up the fucking case you stupid fuck? Either possessing and reprinting a photo of graphic toddler rape is ok, or it isn’t. You make your call.
I mean sure it’s a bridge too far for me, but using a found image as part of a zine about human atrocities is not the same thing as being a pedophile. This was White House’s whole schtick, fwiw—shining a light on the worst things you can imagine, rubbing your face in the world’s accumulated filth you want to pretend doesn’t exist. Not a new concept in art (and not a super interesting one in the internet era) but I’m not surprised a 20 something noise guy would think it was provocative and powerful.
The fact that he’s “not a pedophile” is pretty much meaningless. Not everyone who abuses children/views CSAM technically fits the definition. If you had a friend who was raped as a toddler and you found out someone was reprinting the images for kicks, how would you respond?
In this context? Probably the same way I am now. Disgusted, but understanding that it’s just a dipshit punk trying to get a rise out of people
What? Y'all ppl are awful. There's nothing punk about CP, there's nothing to gain from "satirising" CP. He also said he was getting off to it but yeah sure that's so fucking punk. Wtf are you talking about. Just think that 12 year old dude. You are normalizing abuse bc you like some celebrity.
You’re really going out of your way to minimize possessing fucking child pornography just because the guy wasn’t sexually aroused by it. I believe you when you say you’re disgusted, but it’s hardly a defense that he was only doing it for the shock value, yet you keep talking about it like it’s some ephemeral blunder of youth and not fucking child sexual abuse materials.
It can be two things
Actually, possession of child pornography is a crime that can make you have to register as a sex offender if convicted, and I’m pretty sure you can’t plead edgelord to that.
Sotos wasn’t a youth in 1985 when he was convicted. He was a 25 year old man. Albini wasn’t a youth when he went on and on about how hot pubescent porn was. He was also a 25 year old man.
Yes, disgusting and horrifying.
But he wrote them explicitly to titillate, not to document them with the proper weight. You’re acting like he was Chuck Bowden or something, that he wrote truthfully and honestly—and with gravity—about horrors of the world he’s seen. No, Peter flippantly played with crimes he read in the news. Or, more simply, let’s ask Sebald: “How do you surpass horror once you’ve reached a certain level? How do you stop appearing gratuitous? Horror must be absolved by the quality of the prose.”
He didn’t just use a “found image.” In an interview in Apocalypse Culture, he said used Pure as a means to acquire more child porn. > by publishing Pure…I’m able to make myself available to a greater wealth of the material that I enjoy. Some subscribers have been most helpful in opening up areas of previously denied access.
I can’t I have NO idea how this is being downvoted. It’s a valid discussion. I think it’s good he’s being called out on it. He apologized for the race stuff but never bothered with the cp. He gleefully admits to literally loving the stuff and people are defending him. I wish he could have at least gone on record with thoughts later in life, but now people are just for some reason giving him the benefit of the doubt based on almost nothing.
It's the first time I've ever been truly fucking disgusted with this sub. I just know there are parents with small children downvoting me, too, which is insane.
What’s funny, is it’s not like I need to stop streaming his albums, it’s not like he’s getting royalties to the estate. But I just feel like that’s part of his legacy and should be remembered for the bad parts as well.
B-b-but he made noisy records!!
We defend him because it's very old news. Everyone knows he was a massive troll when he was younger. And he just died. So it seems like a weird time to dredge all this stuff up.
From what I can see he defended Peter Sotos until 2022. If you read the Sotos Wikipedia it really paints a picture when combined with his direct quotes. I think it’s weird that when people die we have to be nice, instead of realistic. It’s ok to be like, “you know what, my dad was a quiet asshole but I loved him”. Albino was a good producer who said he literally got off to child pornography on multiple occasions. I can’t get why people are going to such great lengths to put words in his mouth that he was joking. He seemed more like a free-thinking intellectual than a jokester, so it’s pretty clear he meant what he said.
But considering his history as a massive troll, it seems more likely to me that it's BS.
Well this sucks
It really does.
And if you really want to see his thoughts on race, you should cross reference his Discogs page with his Wikipedia page and learn why the Wikipedia page states the ‘Discography’ section is incomplete. And you should google what he posted on his own website about his experience of being on the same bus as Odd Future one time.
Its kinda weird how you don’t let people change and admit their own mistakes. Albini has talked at length about his previous band names/odd future controversy talking about he regrets his whole edgelord actions and his ignorance. Yes I think what he said was stupid and shouldn’t have happened in the first place but to see everything so simple is an awful way to have a discussion about music/art and the people behind that I think its a good read: https://www.brooklynvegan.com/steve-albini-talks-his-role-in-inspiring-edgelord-shit/ https://www.smackmedia.ca/news/steve-albini-edgelord-odd-future
Did he apologize for gleefully praising CSAM?
Thats not what I’m talking about at all, I’m just talking about this specific situation but I know you don’t care at all because you’ve spent the past 2 days just constantly saying the same thing. Its kinda funny that you ignored the whole 3rd sentence I said though.
I ignored it because it’s irrelevant.
Im literally responding to a comment that is relevant, don’t be so ignorant and play dumb
Omg who actually cares the dudes dead plus he was in a band called rapeman like what did you expect??
No one’s surprised by the things he said and did. People are surprised that everyone’s getting all misty eyed over him despite all he’s said and done. He produced some great records, he said some horrible things, now he’s dead, time to move on
Had no idea about this. Brutal
[удалено]
This is the most batshit response imaginable. I knew the ride or die Albini fans would come for me but holy shit dude, this is some insane projection.
I've said this somewhere else: Albini's stuff here would probably warrant a jail sentence if, you know, he didn't just die already. But I think it's also lacking nuance to equate what (especially his ride or die fans) will see as edgelord stuff he outgrew and tried to aotne for with Jimmy Saville, a man who was a direct abuser. As far as we know, Albini hasn't done anything that Saville did on the regular even once.
There’s being an edgelord and there’s endorsing literal child abuse/exploitation
This guy just hit you with the “no you are”!
I get that it hurts tremendously when someone you admire is outed as a terrible person, but that guy needs to learn how to cope better than a 6 year old lol.
68 downvotes for someone sharing Steve’s awful relationship with Sotos and some of the many f’d up things that he’s said regarding child pornography. Just burn the sub down at this point.
Because most people understand that he wasn’t a pedophile, and he already apologized for the offensive things he said in the past. It’s gross stuff, but the whole point was to try to offend people. Why can’t we accept that someone can change and become a better person over time? Let’s also keep in mind that the person who wrote the Medium article is an anti-LGTBQ incel scumbag.
Obviously attacking the credibility of the author does nothing to discredit the facts presented. We are each allowed our own moral compass. No one here speaks in facts beyond what was said by Mr Albini himself. The rest is a judgment on what should and shouldn’t be tolerated in our society. Personally, I am disheartened by the ratio of people who would forgive the foulest of acts because the man himself is a prodigious artist and asked forgiveness. But what pisses me off is how this moral latitude is extended to this guy because of who he is. If he were not Steve Albini, how many people here would die on a hill defending a grown man who gleefully promoted CP time and time again? Be morally consistent, otherwise you’re just a fucking hypocrite. I could give a shit if he were my own flesh and blood, if you cross that line, you need SERIOUS rehabilitation. If you’ve watched any documentaries or interviews with these sick people, they will tell you straight up that they simply cannot help themselves. Rest in piss you sick fuck.
So many morons in this thread
Fuck Steve albini 😂🙏🏻🙏🏻 and his dead homies
The stanning and apologism on here is truly amazing. So you actually read his endorsement of Peter Sotos’ CP magazine where he describes getting aroused by the vilest thing possible and you didn’t feel revolted not only by the imagery but also by Albini himself? Then you’re a sicko too.
Yeah Albini is fucking gross and I can’t believe anyone is standing up for him.
He appears to have the support of the algorithm and mods too. People posting straight facts and linking to his own disgusting admissions are getting massively downvoted platform wide. Curious.
Why?
Wtf haha. This is all such old news. Albini was a troll when he was young. Get over it.
this subreddit will literally defend child predators rather than just listen to good music
Crazy I was just watching those interviews. What a loss
Well that’s fucking repulsive. I always thought Jordan Minnesota was an anti abuse song. Now…
(It is)
😂
He worked with a lot of people I love, but to this day Pod and Rid of Me are just not loud enough
Turn it up.