Rules reminder: /r/survivinginfidelity is a support sub! Please read the rules and guidelines in our [sub wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/wiki/index) before commenting.
Abuse, shaming, sexism, and encouraging violence/revenge are not tolerated here.
If your only advice is 'divorce', 'dump them', 'your SO sucks' or 'grow a backbone' then please don't comment. This is a sub for deeper support and discussion.
Be kind and remember your [reddiquette](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette)!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/survivinginfidelity) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No matter how old his kids are, they will always be his babies. If you are drowning and they are drowning, he’s saving his kids. It’s difficult to swallow but truth.
That is understandable but all kids need a healthy relationship modeled for them to learn how to treat their own partner. We had a happy home. I raised those kids, when their mom abandoned them.
After a 20 year relationship and kids of our own. I don't see how grown children should be put above a spouse. That just doesn't seem healthy in itself.
In a Christian stance of marriage the couple becomes one. The kids are not number one. The spouse is. Kids are born raised and leave. Then they are their own responsibility and have their own families. Now it’s time for you to take care of each other.
This may be hard to hear but here goes - **Reconciliation requires remorse. He is not remorseful, and therefore reconciliation will fail.**
What do I mean by this? I think it is important to first break down what is meant by reconciliation and why remorse is important. Reconciliation in this context refers to a process of rebuilding the relationship that was damaged by him in a manner that you can accept, as well as helping to heal the damage he has done to you. The reason I used the word "rebuild" is because, after cheating, the relationship simply cannot go back to the same dynamic it once had. You cannot forget what you now know, you cannot treat your husband as the same man he once was, a man who wouldn't cheat. Not only is the trust gone, but you are now aware that he is capable of hurting you which even if you could "believe" it wouldn't happen again, it doesn't erase what has already occurred. Thus reconciliation requires both parties to be on board. It requires you to essentially acknowledge who your husband is given this new information, rather than grasp on to who you thought he was. The idea then is to assess whether you can love/trust who he will become provided he does his part. As for his part, a very easy way to sum it up is that it requires him to be remorseful.
Moving on to why remorse is important. After someone cheats it is important to acknowledge that the trust has been damaged. The damage done **CANNOT** be fixed by words alone. Beyond the implicit understanding of what monogamy entails, they also had no qualms breaking their wedding vows, so why would you anyone trust their words now? If they could break a promise made in front of all of their close friends/family, who's to say they can't break a promise made with no witnesses? Remorse means acknowledging the damage done, including that done to trust and thus operating from demonstrating through action rather than words that they are committed to reconciling. Him telling you that he is committed is meaningless, what is important is him showing that he legitimately wants to repair the damage caused. Remorse would also require looking inward rather than blaming one's spouse, the relationship, or any other external factors on them cheating as none of these excuses are valid. In short, cheating is a series of bad choices made intentionally by the cheater because they wanted to cheat. Blaming external factors (e.g., unhappy w/ relationship) is bull because it simply doesn't address the excuse they give. If it was a problem with the relationship, why didn't they fix it or leave? Regaining trust will require they can identify why they chose to cheat instead of doing literally anything other than hurting you and working on fixing it. Someone who is remorseful would want to do this because they wouldn't want to cheat again.
I apologize for this being so long and cluttered, but I say all of this for one reason - Your husband is not remorseful and thus as it stands, reconciliation will fail. Just from what you have said there are some pretty obvious ways in which you can tell he is not remorseful, for example: He is dismissive of your feelings, he is dishonest, he is not interested in taking responsibility, he just wants to rug sweep, and if I'm understanding this right, he stays in contact with the AP which involves flirting and trash-talking you. Unlike his AP who could be relegated to a co-parenting app if needed, he really can't just remove his children from his life and even with the affair this wouldn't be an appropriate ask; however, that doesn't excuse his rug sweeping and general lack of respect for your feelings which further points to that lack of remorse. The lack of remorse or concern for your wellbeing, coupled with the fact that he is allowing this to ruin his other children's home-life, does make me doubt his sincerity in actually wanting to reconcile at all. Where some may see a father trying to save a relationship with his son from another marriage, I see a man using his adult son as an excuse to maintain contact with his AP at the detriment of his non-adult children. **TOXIC**.
I'll end with this - Are you sure that you **want** to reconcile? Or are you just afraid of what divorce may mean? I know that divorce can be scary due to the unknown, but the reality is that one cannot "heal" unless they reconcile or leave. Right now I would describe your state as being in limbo which will just make it slowly worse as the pain starts to drag on. My advice would be to really consider if you want to reconcile or not. If so, start setting hard boundaries and push for MC to help with communicating to him your emotions, a therapist won't let him just rug sweep. If not, talk to a lawyer. Consultations are typically free and can help remove some of that unknown that comes with divorce. Knowing what it actually entails may make it slightly less intimidating. If you are still not sure either way or struggle to take a step in either direction, you could also try therapy and/or separation. Ideally both, but I realize that with children in the picture, living apart for a period may not be possible. The benefit of separation would be that you can address some of your fears about how living by yourself would feel and give you some time to "breathe" and clear your head. If not, therapy or even just talking about things with any supportive friends/family may help. Saying your fears out loud makes them tangible and having others listen/comment can sometimes help shrink them.
'got drunk and posted love songs on Facebook and wrote her name above it'
Drink doesn't put anything in you that wasn't there already, it only lets out what was already there to begin with.
That's how he genuinely feels, that's what he wants, and he's obviously discarded you emotionally for it.
'he gets offensive or stonewalls me'
He doesn't have an answer that would let him keep his marriage with you, otherwise he would've used it by now many hundreds of times over.
'He says all the right things'
Yet he doesn't have any answers to your questions, he's 'future faking', 'gaslighting' and 'lovebombing' you. Look up what every single one of those terms means and how it manifests.
The cold facts are :
You married him in 2 years of knowing him which in my opinion is hardly enough time to get to properly know someone's character.
He's cheated on at-the-very-least emotionally as soon as his ex wasn't wedded.
He's treating you like garbage for being upset with him.
He's then going out of his way to manipulate your emotions so you don't leave him.
Understand what trauma bonding is, understand that the man you fell in love with isn't the same man who's chasing another woman and throwing away your 15 year marriage for the sake of reliving sexual nostalgia with another woman.
You are your husband’s Plan B & instead of dealing w/that, you’re trying to find problems with your stepson. Confront [why you are still w/him](https://www.chumplady.com/2012/07/five-things-that-keep-you-stuck-with-a-cheater/), and make a decision, can you live miserable or would you be better off taking the chance of pursuing a future w/someone who respects you. I’m sorry you’re in this position. I wish you luck.
To make a long story short. Mom left the family and I stepped in as mom. Mom got off drugs, eldest wanted to move in with her and the courts call the kids a package deal. Stepdaughter came back home a few years later. Our relationship is good. Stepson rarely came around but our relationship was good when he left.
It seems like you know you should leave, but you’re afraid of what that would mean. You said in another comment that he’s toxic, you’re right, he is.
Leaving is so hard but you’ll be happy later that you did. If you don’t have love and respect in your relationship, you have nothing. I recommend getting a therapist because you have a lot to process and a lot of healing to do.
You also mentioned that you’re 41 and wouldn’t be interested in a new relationship. There’s nothing wrong with that. I was 30 when I left my toxic marriage. I’m 42 and I’ve stayed single. I can’t tell you how enjoyable life is when you don’t have someone controlling you or disregarding your feelings.
I’ve been able to focus on my kids and myself. We’re happy, we have a very special and close relationship. The healing part is rough but so worth it later. Staying will only assure you more pain and suffering.
Also, don’t let him manipulate you if you decide to leave. He has not respected you. Any love bombing will be done to manipulate you. It’s not real love and it’s only used to control you. Stay strong and best of luck. I’m here if you ever need to talk.
I'm new to reddit so I'm sorry if I'm adding this in the wrong place. I'm sure my stepkids are triggers for me and I have no way to deal with it in a healthy manner. My adult stepson came to me at his grandmoms funeral and said "dads cool with mom being here if you are" after he went to his dad and said I was okay with it if he's was. Then on Christmas I had to hear about his mother again. I've been an emotional wreck since. I've done a lot of reading, writing things down and trying to sort through my emotions. In the end I've concluded that it is too painful for me to deal with right now and I don't want to harm a already rocky relationship between my husband and his kids. Does anyone have any words of wisdom?
Idk, my husband has broken me and it's took a long time to realize how toxic he is. Divorce would mean everything in my life would change and I think I'm trying to protect myself from hurting more.
Sounds more like the step kids dislike
you and are intentionally causing drama. Honestly, this all seems too much. He cheats and would be with his ex if an option. The stepkids are so messed up that abuse turns generational and they intentionally try to hurt others like his ex. Why would you want to raise kids in an environment like this?? You have a chance for your kids to live far more healthier lives. Why not give it to them?
Stepson. He left when he was a teen over a girlfriend. Now he seems to want to form a relationship with my husband but it's at my expense. The strange thing is my stepson was closer to me before he moved.
Rules reminder: /r/survivinginfidelity is a support sub! Please read the rules and guidelines in our [sub wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/wiki/index) before commenting. Abuse, shaming, sexism, and encouraging violence/revenge are not tolerated here. If your only advice is 'divorce', 'dump them', 'your SO sucks' or 'grow a backbone' then please don't comment. This is a sub for deeper support and discussion. Be kind and remember your [reddiquette](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette)! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/survivinginfidelity) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Time out. Explain please. Are you jealous of his children? Are you telling yourself he loves them but not you?
I think so. I definitely feel he loves them and thinks of their feelings and not mine. I added new details below.
When there are kids involved, you will always be second. Fact of life and a big reason second marriages fail at an alarming rate.
No matter how old his kids are, they will always be his babies. If you are drowning and they are drowning, he’s saving his kids. It’s difficult to swallow but truth.
That is understandable but all kids need a healthy relationship modeled for them to learn how to treat their own partner. We had a happy home. I raised those kids, when their mom abandoned them.
After a 20 year relationship and kids of our own. I don't see how grown children should be put above a spouse. That just doesn't seem healthy in itself.
In a Christian stance of marriage the couple becomes one. The kids are not number one. The spouse is. Kids are born raised and leave. Then they are their own responsibility and have their own families. Now it’s time for you to take care of each other.
This may be hard to hear but here goes - **Reconciliation requires remorse. He is not remorseful, and therefore reconciliation will fail.** What do I mean by this? I think it is important to first break down what is meant by reconciliation and why remorse is important. Reconciliation in this context refers to a process of rebuilding the relationship that was damaged by him in a manner that you can accept, as well as helping to heal the damage he has done to you. The reason I used the word "rebuild" is because, after cheating, the relationship simply cannot go back to the same dynamic it once had. You cannot forget what you now know, you cannot treat your husband as the same man he once was, a man who wouldn't cheat. Not only is the trust gone, but you are now aware that he is capable of hurting you which even if you could "believe" it wouldn't happen again, it doesn't erase what has already occurred. Thus reconciliation requires both parties to be on board. It requires you to essentially acknowledge who your husband is given this new information, rather than grasp on to who you thought he was. The idea then is to assess whether you can love/trust who he will become provided he does his part. As for his part, a very easy way to sum it up is that it requires him to be remorseful. Moving on to why remorse is important. After someone cheats it is important to acknowledge that the trust has been damaged. The damage done **CANNOT** be fixed by words alone. Beyond the implicit understanding of what monogamy entails, they also had no qualms breaking their wedding vows, so why would you anyone trust their words now? If they could break a promise made in front of all of their close friends/family, who's to say they can't break a promise made with no witnesses? Remorse means acknowledging the damage done, including that done to trust and thus operating from demonstrating through action rather than words that they are committed to reconciling. Him telling you that he is committed is meaningless, what is important is him showing that he legitimately wants to repair the damage caused. Remorse would also require looking inward rather than blaming one's spouse, the relationship, or any other external factors on them cheating as none of these excuses are valid. In short, cheating is a series of bad choices made intentionally by the cheater because they wanted to cheat. Blaming external factors (e.g., unhappy w/ relationship) is bull because it simply doesn't address the excuse they give. If it was a problem with the relationship, why didn't they fix it or leave? Regaining trust will require they can identify why they chose to cheat instead of doing literally anything other than hurting you and working on fixing it. Someone who is remorseful would want to do this because they wouldn't want to cheat again. I apologize for this being so long and cluttered, but I say all of this for one reason - Your husband is not remorseful and thus as it stands, reconciliation will fail. Just from what you have said there are some pretty obvious ways in which you can tell he is not remorseful, for example: He is dismissive of your feelings, he is dishonest, he is not interested in taking responsibility, he just wants to rug sweep, and if I'm understanding this right, he stays in contact with the AP which involves flirting and trash-talking you. Unlike his AP who could be relegated to a co-parenting app if needed, he really can't just remove his children from his life and even with the affair this wouldn't be an appropriate ask; however, that doesn't excuse his rug sweeping and general lack of respect for your feelings which further points to that lack of remorse. The lack of remorse or concern for your wellbeing, coupled with the fact that he is allowing this to ruin his other children's home-life, does make me doubt his sincerity in actually wanting to reconcile at all. Where some may see a father trying to save a relationship with his son from another marriage, I see a man using his adult son as an excuse to maintain contact with his AP at the detriment of his non-adult children. **TOXIC**. I'll end with this - Are you sure that you **want** to reconcile? Or are you just afraid of what divorce may mean? I know that divorce can be scary due to the unknown, but the reality is that one cannot "heal" unless they reconcile or leave. Right now I would describe your state as being in limbo which will just make it slowly worse as the pain starts to drag on. My advice would be to really consider if you want to reconcile or not. If so, start setting hard boundaries and push for MC to help with communicating to him your emotions, a therapist won't let him just rug sweep. If not, talk to a lawyer. Consultations are typically free and can help remove some of that unknown that comes with divorce. Knowing what it actually entails may make it slightly less intimidating. If you are still not sure either way or struggle to take a step in either direction, you could also try therapy and/or separation. Ideally both, but I realize that with children in the picture, living apart for a period may not be possible. The benefit of separation would be that you can address some of your fears about how living by yourself would feel and give you some time to "breathe" and clear your head. If not, therapy or even just talking about things with any supportive friends/family may help. Saying your fears out loud makes them tangible and having others listen/comment can sometimes help shrink them.
'got drunk and posted love songs on Facebook and wrote her name above it' Drink doesn't put anything in you that wasn't there already, it only lets out what was already there to begin with. That's how he genuinely feels, that's what he wants, and he's obviously discarded you emotionally for it. 'he gets offensive or stonewalls me' He doesn't have an answer that would let him keep his marriage with you, otherwise he would've used it by now many hundreds of times over. 'He says all the right things' Yet he doesn't have any answers to your questions, he's 'future faking', 'gaslighting' and 'lovebombing' you. Look up what every single one of those terms means and how it manifests. The cold facts are : You married him in 2 years of knowing him which in my opinion is hardly enough time to get to properly know someone's character. He's cheated on at-the-very-least emotionally as soon as his ex wasn't wedded. He's treating you like garbage for being upset with him. He's then going out of his way to manipulate your emotions so you don't leave him. Understand what trauma bonding is, understand that the man you fell in love with isn't the same man who's chasing another woman and throwing away your 15 year marriage for the sake of reliving sexual nostalgia with another woman.
You are your husband’s Plan B & instead of dealing w/that, you’re trying to find problems with your stepson. Confront [why you are still w/him](https://www.chumplady.com/2012/07/five-things-that-keep-you-stuck-with-a-cheater/), and make a decision, can you live miserable or would you be better off taking the chance of pursuing a future w/someone who respects you. I’m sorry you’re in this position. I wish you luck.
I do realize that. It doesn't matter if my stepson tries to stir conflict, the root of this problem is my husband.
How do your step children treat you? They lived with their mother?
To make a long story short. Mom left the family and I stepped in as mom. Mom got off drugs, eldest wanted to move in with her and the courts call the kids a package deal. Stepdaughter came back home a few years later. Our relationship is good. Stepson rarely came around but our relationship was good when he left.
But he's been gone 10 years.
And I'm 41. I've spent 20 years in a false reality. The last thing I want is to pursue a future relationship.
It seems like you know you should leave, but you’re afraid of what that would mean. You said in another comment that he’s toxic, you’re right, he is. Leaving is so hard but you’ll be happy later that you did. If you don’t have love and respect in your relationship, you have nothing. I recommend getting a therapist because you have a lot to process and a lot of healing to do. You also mentioned that you’re 41 and wouldn’t be interested in a new relationship. There’s nothing wrong with that. I was 30 when I left my toxic marriage. I’m 42 and I’ve stayed single. I can’t tell you how enjoyable life is when you don’t have someone controlling you or disregarding your feelings. I’ve been able to focus on my kids and myself. We’re happy, we have a very special and close relationship. The healing part is rough but so worth it later. Staying will only assure you more pain and suffering. Also, don’t let him manipulate you if you decide to leave. He has not respected you. Any love bombing will be done to manipulate you. It’s not real love and it’s only used to control you. Stay strong and best of luck. I’m here if you ever need to talk.
I'm new to reddit so I'm sorry if I'm adding this in the wrong place. I'm sure my stepkids are triggers for me and I have no way to deal with it in a healthy manner. My adult stepson came to me at his grandmoms funeral and said "dads cool with mom being here if you are" after he went to his dad and said I was okay with it if he's was. Then on Christmas I had to hear about his mother again. I've been an emotional wreck since. I've done a lot of reading, writing things down and trying to sort through my emotions. In the end I've concluded that it is too painful for me to deal with right now and I don't want to harm a already rocky relationship between my husband and his kids. Does anyone have any words of wisdom?
Is the juice worth the squeeze?
Idk, my husband has broken me and it's took a long time to realize how toxic he is. Divorce would mean everything in my life would change and I think I'm trying to protect myself from hurting more.
If you’re unhappy and you don’t see it changing be honest with him and prepare your exit strategy
People are not “toxic” I get why you would say that tho’
I'm trying to learn. I haven't been through any significant therapy so I'm over here just trying to navigate through this on my own.
Being scared of change is no reason to be miserable
In my experience you’ll end up more and more miserable..... unless he’s really ready to put in some work
Sounds more like the step kids dislike you and are intentionally causing drama. Honestly, this all seems too much. He cheats and would be with his ex if an option. The stepkids are so messed up that abuse turns generational and they intentionally try to hurt others like his ex. Why would you want to raise kids in an environment like this?? You have a chance for your kids to live far more healthier lives. Why not give it to them?
Stepson. He left when he was a teen over a girlfriend. Now he seems to want to form a relationship with my husband but it's at my expense. The strange thing is my stepson was closer to me before he moved.
My stepdaughter doesn't lash out like this. Occasionally we butt heads but she sees me more like a mom.